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train · 591k rows

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https://i.imgur.com/YovtziH.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmgan/in_1964_the_fbi_sent_this_anonymous_letter_to/	[ "Source? Not that I don’t believe it. Just would like the whole story behind it. :)", "Here is the story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI–King_suicide_letter", "Thank you!!" ]	3	pics	In 1964, the FBI sent this anonymous letter to Martin Luther King Jr. encouraging him to commit suicide.
https://i.redd.it/3f8iykc7iaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmhoe/a_different_view_of_iceland_reykjavík_in_november/	[ "When you see it. OCD edition", "Is it the broken street light or the car that's troubling you?", "Car? Usually in Europe you can park whichever way you like, if that's what you are referring to.", "Illegal to park against traffic in most countries.. " ]	4	pics	A different view of Iceland. Reykjavík in November.
https://i.redd.it/z3zzfq6thaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmhs4/1915_just_my_great_grandmother_and_her_twin/	[ "Did people keep bear rugs outside?", "r/oldschoolcreepy", "Anyone else expecting something to come out of the bush", "Apparently? This would have been taken in Southern Ontario close to Lake Huron. ", "Nice! Great picture. " ]	5	pics	1915 - Just my great grandmother and her twin standing on a bear rug
https://i.redd.it/8h02esiqjaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmk1k/fbi_letter_to_mlk_shortly_before_his_death/	[ "Disgusting and corrupt. The purpose of my post is to attempt to inform everyone of just how specifically he was targeted by US Government Agencies in extremely disgusting and racist ways, even threatening to kill him if he didn’t kill himself. \n\nAn American Hero. We can all try to be more like him. ", "It looks like it could have been written by a 16 year old posh troll.", "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI–King_suicide_letter\n\nhttps://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/11/16/magazine/what-an-uncensored-letter-to-mlk-reveals.html?referer=https://www.google.com/\n\nhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/12/13/an-old-letter-sheds-light-on-fbis-malice-toward-martin-luther-king-jr/?utm_term=.0df1f5caa4a0\n\nhttp://time.com/3582004/fbi-letter-hoover-mlk/\n\nhttp://www.chicagotribune.com/news/81973851-157.html\n\nhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/shocking-letter-from-fbi-to-martin-luther-king-2014-11\n\nI wish it was a troll, but it was an organized threat to a civil rights hero. He died a month after. Look at the last paragraph. ", "Many sacrifices were made in the name of equal rights, and the struggle still continues. Many sacrifices will have to be made in the future to gain true equal rights for all citizens of the United States. \n\nSide note: \nHas the FBI apologized to the African American/Black community for this appalling letter? I think a letter this egregious deserves an unending apology. ", "Sounds like a letter you would expect from today's republicans. trumps level ...\n\nI suspect the author was a complete idiot and was removed from his position very soon after this letter was written but lo we cannot say as the author was too much of a coward to put his name with his words...", "Doubt it. \n\nHowever, good newsish:\n\nThe U.S. government was sued by King’s family and found culpable for (at least a role in the) murder of MLK [one of many sources. ](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mlks-family-feels-vindicated/) ", "Really? Going to play left vs right and throw hate around instead of love on this day of all days? Guess what, I’m a T_D browser and I do not know you, but I love and care about you. He died a month after this letter. Look at the last paragraph. Now isn’t the time to fill this with politicized bullshit, Id suggest you take a break from reddit and celebrate this unbelievable man and his life’s work trying to make this world a better place for you and I. By the way it wasn’t one man as the author, it was a branch of the FBI that was targetting and following King. It wasn’t a lone wolf, it was an organized death threat from a branch of the agency. ", "Thanks, it’s just stupid to lump people together in derogatory name dragging. I’m not trying to dictate anything. I just don’t want this post getting political, it’s MLK Day- love all. And above is stated that republicans (half the nation) would write this racist as shit death threat. I’m a centrist/republican with some liberal stances, so therefore above commenter could see me calling MLK what the FBI said and that’s completely fucked up in my opinion. And if they really believe that then yes, i am having a bad time haha. Should’ve pizzad when i french fried. ", "Ok, Mr. Tolerant. You can't assume a person is racist just because of their political beliefs. Some of the finest people I know call themselves a Republican. That doesn't mean they agree with Trump or even like him. ", "Sounds like something a Gamer Gater would write.", "While I support everything youve been saying in this thread, how could you possibly agree with King's teachings, and still be able to follow and agree with anything on T_D? Like, there isnt a single thing posted there that isnt stupid, ignorant, racist, and/or hateful. If this post is because you are trying to discredit the FBI and their investigation into the treason Trump has committed, then youre crazy, because the fbi is run by completely different people, and run in a different way, than when they had King killed.", "No outside motive. I’ve first heard about this letter when I was in high school. I do not post racist things, I do not like racist things, I don’t post stupid things without any sources. I don’t dwell on there I just post because of people who project like yourself. But I’m sure somewhere down the road someone gave you a reason to believe that and that’s fine. It’s not me. For instance my last post was how Fusion GPS retracted their claim that they’ve had since day 1 stating they had an internal FBI source that said the dossier was 100% true when the only corroboration done was just that one man was actually in Russia at the time he was stated to be in the dossier. The FBI “source” was the credibility that allowed the FISA to go through according to the filings that were presented. And they just 180d their claim they’ve had for 8 months now saying “oh yeah we had no FBI source.” Just saying, you don’t know me. \n\nWhere do you suggest I should start posting? ", "Oh god... So like, every member of the Trump party/family having confirmed meetings with Russians during the campaign/early presidency are thrown out just because like one or two people got paid off enough to change their story? Im not arguing past this post, because its pointless with you people. You look over countless facts, ignore countless statements/actions, ignore obvious idiocy, and then just pick up the smallest thing from the other side, and then blow it up to be the biggest issue, all the while your party is stealing from you and everyone else, and destroying our nation. I hope someday you wake up from all this, and gain some common sense. ", "So like, you’d be like cool with the DNC server being looked at by the FBI? Because I am. \n\n[Look.](https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/policy/national-security/313555-comey-fbi-did-request-access-to-hacked-dnc-servers%3famp) \n\nSo you think Trump, who had a 1% polling chance of winning paid Russia..the whole government, a state-party, to hack the DNC Server and John Podesta’s emails, and then to have Russia, a state-party, then dropbox that to Wikileaks. Then have Wikileaks drop it. Then to have Wikileaks claim over and over and over “it was not a state party.” Putting their 100% authenticity on the line? Have you seen any Assange interview? Have you seen any of his statements? Every government in the world is waiting for them to fuck up. \n\n[Look. Plus they tweeted it weekly during this shitshow. ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/01/04/politics/assange-wikileaks-hannity-intv/index.html) \n\n\nIf you didn’t know Podesta’s emails weren’t hacked, he fell victim to a phishing software that originated in Eastern Europe and he still claims its Russia to this day [Look.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/the-phishing-email-that-hacked-the-account-of-john-podesta/) And the basis for the first wiretap on Trump came directly because of this dossier through the claim Fusion GPS had in court stating that it was “authenticated by an Internal FBI agent in the Trump team.”\n\nFusion GPS Closed testimony transcript gets leaked, 6 hours later Fusion juuuust happens to completely retract the cornerstone of the FISA request that they’ve repeated over and over month in and month out for 9+ months.\n\n[Look.](https://www.google.com/amp/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/13/glenn-simpson-believes-fbi-has-mole-inside-trump-t/) \n\nHave you been following the Awan case as well? Because I haven’t seen it anywhere except for conspiracy and T_D, and the judge who has that case just happen to also seal all of Fusion GPS’s bank records and that judge is an Obama Appointed Federal Judge Chutkan. Must be running low on them, two of the most high profile cases in the US handled by one person.\n\n[Look. ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.redstate.com/slee/2017/12/14/judge-imran-awan-case-kicked-off-fusion-gps-case/amp/) \n\nFrom my memory only one party colluded to rig the primaries and had a victory fund set up funneling DNC money from Bernie to Hillary a month before the primaries were over [Look.](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/the-biggest-hillary-clinton-scandal-no-ones-talking-about/article/2645361) You care about McCabe’s wife as a conflict of interest [(Look)](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-new-documents-show-fbi-deputy-director-mccabe-not-recuse-clinton-email-scandal-investigation-week-presidential-election/amp/) ? What about DNC targetting Bernie because of his religion, or feeding debate questions in advance [(Look)](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/23/dnc-emails-wikileaks-hillary-bernie-sanders) ? You seem to care about democracy only when it comes to “Russia.” \n\nYou think if they had something they would wait for Trump to casually take the office for a year THEN take him out? It’s a leverage stalemate. I’m sure they have tax fraud shit on him because he’s a real estate mogul and they went as far back as 1987 looking into his audits and they can’t bring them up because the means behind the surveillance were illegal as fuck, (see 4th amendment and then tell me that Fusions claim change doesn’t matter). \n\nIf you think Russia makes your vote not count, you should probably entertain the idea that the intelligence community was fully weaponized against Trump, a man with disposable income out the ass, and he barely won. How do you think the average joe would do against an establishment candidate? (if you don’t think she was look who big pharma, central banks, and media endorsements of the last election were for, then look at the donations they gave). Then your vote wouldn’t count. Just like..idk..a rigged primary that forces you to pick between a douche and a turd. \n\nOh and my favorite one, Peter Strzok, a member of Mueller’s team had messages released from an encrypted phone (under the radar of Comey/Mueller when sent) stating “We can’t let we the people decide the outcome of this election... [We] need an insurance policy.” Then..the Russian Probe was launched on the basis of the dossier, and if you read this far then you know the FBI mole claim used to grant the FISA was bullshit. \n\n[Look.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/12/12/politics/peter-strzok-texts-released/index.html) \n\nOne question I want answered from you: what did Trump do to make Russia “hack” the election, and how did Russia do it. \n\n\nIf you really want to go to the T_D ad hominem post search route, I could bring up your meth and fentanyl binging. " ]	14	pics	FBI letter to MLK shortly before his death.
https://i.imgur.com/lBJu99p.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmkhf/driver_on_drugs_crashed_into_a_dental_surgery/	[ "He hit a median and flipped up and lodged into the top floor ", "Unbelievable! Scary too. ", "So Drugs can make you fly" ]	3	pics	Driver on drugs crashed into a dental surgery office
https://i.redd.it/rx3gtuk2kaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmkj3/freezing_lake_in_nebraska_looks_like_eye/	[ "Build a huge wall just to be on the safe side", "Sauron is hiding out", "Eye don't see what you're talking about", "r/pareidolia would probably love this :)", "That joke couldn’t be any cornea", "It’s just the angle, it’s an optical illusion.", "Eye eye, captain.", "Iris you didn't say that", "Look away, look away. ", "Sauron is ~~hiding~~ chilling out. FTFY", "AKKKUUUUUUU!!!!!!", "Not a lake, it barely qualifies as a pond.\n\nI am quite pond of your eye's though.", "Haha, touché. ", "I think I can just make out the Sword of Griffindor down there.. ", "huge eye in Nebraska looks like a freezing lake ", "I see this being used as an image for an SCP in the near future.", "It’s the heart of darkness Jez!", "I will lash out if this continues.", "A friend of mine from Honduras said that one of the things that tripped him up most in the English language was knowing if someone was saying ice or eyes.", "Relax, brow.", "How much information from school did you retina in order to come up with that pun? ", "an eye", "that scared me", "I shouldn't have taken that ring.", "I’d expect a wise pupil like you to ask the important questions.", " In Nebraska that is as big as a lake gets unless it's a dammed river.", "Eye see a gaping anus", "Booty is in the eye of the beholder.", "I can't believe you had the optic nerve to say that, what do you take me for?!? ", "Is this where they did the patronus charm?", "you blinked", "Someone tried human transmutation ", "Pond da examination of the \"lake\", I think you're all wet calling it a lake.", "Tool's new album is almost ready to be released.\n\nMystical eyes begin to appear in nature around the globe.\n\nCoincidence?\n\nMe thinks not!", "There's a spider at the bottom that's covered in eyes", "I liked this. I shall upvote you.", "More like goatse.", "And that's just a dammed creek. Dam beavers.", "UPVOTED BECAUSE NEBRASKA", "I will say, you needed a good eye, to spot this. Cool picture, thanks for sharing.", "The lake's impression of your mother's reputation.", "Whoa", "Snowron is chilling out", "#illuminati", "Saurons whispering eye ", "Must be an SCP", "[Eye don’t see which you’re talking about..](https://imgur.com/gallery/tAEt3)", "“For dry eyes, use Clear Eyes.”\n-Ben Stein", "Sauron has a glass eye", "That's a pond", "If I dive in, and swim deep enough. Will I come out on the other-side, some other place?\n\nSomewhere new? Somewhere more interesting?", "That pond is eye see.", "Mr. Deeds", "I thought it was a time lapse video. Looked at it for a good 10 seconds.", "nsfl. j esus, that's creepy", "agreed", "Why it look like it's about to stare into my soul, find out that fucked up thing I did 6 years ago and hide in disgust?", "On the topic, I know a person who genuinely believe Los Angeles is in Nebraska. They're not the sharpest tool in the shed for sure.", "You dare to mock the whispering eye?!", "Where at in Nebraska? Asking because Nebraskan.", "I can check real quick if it's here if you'd like. ", "Nah its OK I'm sure it's there.", "Well I checked. It was here but it left. Try Maine. ", "Well shit, thanks. Last time I trust Ask Jeeves.", "Ponca State Park", "Or did it look at you?", "Looks like Sauron chose a different eye this time. ", "fight the good fight", "I think this is my brother! He does the same exact thing. ", "im tryin.... im tryin", "Good show", "That is literally a puddle.", "We call them potholes in Michigan.", "sick sad world..." ]	75	pics	Freezing Lake in Nebraska Looks Like Eye
https://i.imgur.com/lEcCrBY.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qml08/you_know_what_you_need_after_a_carwash/	[ "If only it was a free car with your taco wash. ", "You will need another car wash after the free taco.", "Hey, free taco though" ]	3	pics	You know what you need after a Carwash?
https://i.redd.it/9ewsjgdpkaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmlk2/i_write_to_people_on_death_row_one_of_them_drew/	[ "what kind of things do you say to them? and what things do they tell you? ", "How...um...nice?", "Is the inmate in high school?", "Your title would make a great r/nosleep story.", "Hasn't found the Lord in there yet, I take it.", "Like if Napoleon Dynamite was a few years down the road with a couple decades of practice under his belt and serving a life-sentence..." ]	7	pics	I write to people on Death Row - One of them drew this and mailed it to me.
https://i.imgur.com/845gNBN.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmmht/on_mlk_day_ice_deports_jorge_garcia_a_married/	[ "This is a disgrace. We need a permanent path to citizenship NOW. This guy has been here for 3 decades. He IS a citizen. I don't care where he was born. \n\nEdit: wow! My most downvoted post ever! >-100! I had no idea how much hate was out there. Just because something is law does not make it moral or right. My opinion is that we need a massive overhaul of how a person can become a citizen. It needs to be quick and easy. \n\nWhy do people not want immigration, seemingly, at all? ", "Worst. President. Ever.", "Lived here thirty years undocumented without attempting permanent residency?", "How exactly does this make America great? Criminals on Wall Street get a pass, hard working family men get kicked out because of massive intolerance. This nation used to be a shining star. Now it's becoming a symbol of indecency.", "I'd kinda hesitate to call him the worst he hasn't extended a war to get reelected or had anything to do with slavery.", "The people who assume it is so easy to get permanent residency are often the same who assume it is easy to get ID for voting.\n\nThere are numerous barriers both explicit and hidden that make 'just getting permanent residency' or 'just go get an ID' far more difficult than assumed.", "He probably made the mistake of paying taxes. Those Wall Street mob don’t pay tax and seem to get away with a lot.", "I'm not familiar with law enough, but from my understanding there was no way for him to apply for permanent residency. He would need to leave the country and start the application from outside the country. ", "I wouldnt. 100% guaranteed in 15 years he will be universally panned and considered the worst US president in history. If he isnt, i will purposefully allow a black widow spider bite me.", "How do you get to be married (wife stays) and live for 30 years in USA and still be illegal?\n\n\nAs a non-american, this is a head scratcher for me.", "true, this is awful", "The slogan is code for \"Make America White Again\", so that's how it helps.", "We're finally safe", "I hope everyone remembers this when November rolls around.\n\nGet the GOP out of Congress. Impeach Trump. Work on rebuilding. ", "Among the worst sure but not the worst you guys have had some true horribles.", "This.", "It’s extremely difficult to do this (sometimes impossible). It’s also expensive. Thousands and thousands of dollars, lawyers, paperwork. ", "this doesn't help anyone unless you are worried about the tally as to how many people we've deported...sickening", "Is that so? \nWhat a horribly low minded view of the world.\nTruly I pity you.", "Truly you didn't debate his point.", "Laws are laws. We can't selectively enforce them. You should contact your congressman to voice your opinion. It's not ICE's fault.", "I don’t need to. I don’t look at the view from such a broken lens. \nPerception is everything.\n", "This is true. Trump isn't the worst president ever, just the worst in recent memory.", "So you're right and he's wrong just because you said so? Sounds like a pretty broken lens.", "Garcia's case is the latest example of immigrants who previously would have been allowed to remain in the U.S., but not now as the U.S. seeks to remove more immigrants. Garcia has no criminal record and pays taxes. He is barred from entering the US for at least 10 years.\n\n[Article](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2018/01/15/jorge-garcia-daca-deported-mexico-immigration/1033296001/)", "There is a permanent path to citizenship. A co-worker of mine just became a citizen after being in the country legally for 20 years.", "> We can't selectively enforce them\n\nActually, we do ", "I have an ID for voting and have workers who have applied for permanent residency and for temporary work permits. Neither is an unreasonable burden. \n\nThere are no guarantees that things that are important should be easy. \"It wasn't easy enough\" isn't an excuse for living and presumably working in a country illegally for decades.", "As an American, I'm in the same boat as you. ", "Yeah this is a fair assesment I think.", "We're debating in a bubble, so it probably won't happen. A large portion of the Republican base are single-issue voters who don't go to the internet for their political insight.", "Bull shit. Laws are selectively unforced by states and the federal government. There are two branches of government for that purpose. “Laws are laws” is an ignorant argument. ", "So you are a business owner or a manager somewhere.\n\nI would assume you have access to a car?\n\nAlso the, \"there are no guarantees that things that are important should be easy,\" is all well and good when discussing how to live and lead a responsible life. But this isn't learning how to handle mortality or how to cope with existence or learning how to love and respect other humans, no, this is some arbitrary thing we have imposed via our government.\n\nAnd you have a group of folks in the GOP who make damn sure that those 'things that are important' you reference are extremely difficult for certain people as a matter of their policy. ", "I don't get the connection to MLK that OP is trying to make.\n\n* Dr. King fought for racial equality. Enforcement of immigration laws has nothing to do with race.\n* Dr. King understood that illegal immigration in his time reduced, and still adversely affects job opportunities for black and other minorities in the country legally. There is no indication that he would have supported illegal immigration, particularly given the effect on unskilled and uneducated blacks - which was the majority of blacks in his time.\n\nTo try to make the connection shows a complete misunderstanding of what Dr. King fought for and ultimately died for.", "I'll marry this dude so he can come back", "Really? \n“Make America Great Again” or MAGA.\nI think that’s what the slogan is. \nTell me again where I misread what the widely known slogan?\nAnyway you can misconstrue something but bending it to match your viewpoint does not make it factually true. I’ve elongated the definition of perception since I doubt you have a thesaurus handy. ", "I will confess to not knowing the full procedures but you can apply for citizenship while living here illegally. I only know this because I know two people who have done so, a third is still in the process and hoping he can stay off the radar till the deed is done.\n\nEdit: Why the down votes? For knowing people who have been able to become citizens or for saying I know its possible?", "Eh, I don't think there has been a worse President who has had as much power as Trump. For instance, Jackson was pretty fucking awful, but his impact was limited to the geographical US at the time. Reagan was also awful, but it's not like he could start nuclear war from his toilet. Trump, on the other hand, is ready to start nuclear war over petty AF shit, and, due to social media and general globalization, his words/actions can have immediate ramifications on the world. \n\nEdit: Spelling Reagan and other grammar ", "RemindMe! 15 years", "It would appear he's not a citizen. ", "Of course we can. We did. We can choose to put our resources to deporting undocumented immigrants who are committing crimes, as Obama instructed, and, under his administration, more undocumented immigrants were removed than any other president That's at least one accomplishment President Trump will almost certainly surpass, since he rescinded that instruction and has sent his newly emboldened shock troops out to remove everybody no matter what, apparently in as horrific a way possible.\n\n(Next time you get pulled over and the officer wants to let you off with a warning, be sure to demand that he ticket you to the full extent of the law. Laws are laws, you know.)", "Wife could be undocumented too, or he had some stuff on his record that made him not eligible for a green card via marriage. ", "Oh quit the rhetoric. It is no more difficult for a Mexican to apply for residency that for a Swede to apply. It is no more difficult for a black man to apply for an ID card than it is for an Asian, white, or any other race.\n\nNot sure if you are gullible enough to actually believe the rhetoric you are spouting or if you know it is bullshit but still spout it hoping to get others to believe. The latter is actually much worse than the former.", "Interesting how Trump is only trying block entrance from certain (non-white) countries, deporting immigrants from certain (non-white) countries, but saying that certain other (very white) countries should be welcomed.\n\nHe has said nasty things about all manner of non-white countries and races but defended literal white supremacists and neo-Nazis. I'd say you lack perception if you can't see repeated examples that point to the same conclusion.", "It's not that it wasn't easy enough, it's that it's too difficult, which are two entirely different concepts in this instance. The citizenship law makes it nigh impossible to become a citizen from within the US if you're from an undesirable country. ", "The circumstances of this guy's illegal residency make it impossible for him to start the application process until he is out of the country. Additionally, he will probably be barred between 3-10 years from applying after being deported.", "Reagan definetly had the ability to launch nukes from the toilet anywhere in the western world honestly", "Prosecutorial discretion. Look it up, jackboot.", "TIL Everyone who speeds, is pulled over. ", "I mean, yeah he can authorize the launch from the US. I more meant Trump could just declare something on Twitter (like war on NK) and the world would react. ", "> The citizenship law makes it nigh impossible to become a citizen from within the US if you're from an undesirable country.\n\nUntrue. The immigration laws are specifically written so that countries that you seem to consider undesirable get at least their fair share of opportunities to emigrate to the US. If the immigration official has 100 spots and 1000 applicants, they don't take the 100 most educated or the 100 most likely to contribute the most to the tax base. The law is specifically written to take from all different countries, including the ones you find undesirable.", "Look, you're right. \"Make America White Again\" isn't literally the slogan, nor was it the intentional meaning of the actual slogan. But if you think that was really his point or message, you're dense.", "We are probably not getting the entire story, pretty simple. ", "You all wanna act like you Forgot about W.\n\n\nYes Trump is bad he is certainly the worst person to have ran and become President he has done a ton shitty stuff but he has had nowhere near the practical impact W. had. Despite Trump the economy is still booming, Bush let us into the worst recession since the Great Depression. Trump has yet to get us into 2 wars that 15 years later we would still not have gotten out off. W’s educational policies with test focused learning may have created thousands of young uneducated trump voters. Trump fumbled Maria in PR, but nowhere near how badly the Bush administration fumbled Katrina. Trump may have attempted a lot of changes but so far, besides his supreme court pick and the tax law, they are mostly reversible, Bush irreparably hurt the US standing both among the international community and among its own citizens. Just imagine how bad you have to be to be hated as much as Trump is while being an honest to god nice person: that’s how bad Bush was. ", "Did he attempt to obtain citizenship in the past 30 years? We're left with very little info. ", "So, to follow your argument, when was america great? In the Jim Crow era? In the gilded age? In pre-civil war America?\n\nWhere exactly along the timeline did America become not great?\n\nThis is why that phrase is a dog whistle. It’s a dog whistle that hearkens back to the Nazi era (was the American Nazi party slogan) because it’s inherently white supremacist and racist. Basically that phrase means, “we want to go back to at least an era when minorities didn’t have equal rights”.\n", ">We can’t selectively enforce them \n\nHahahahahahha ", "He had 30 YEARS to be a legal citizen.", "Libel laws and immigration laws are the most important laws ever!", "\"It is no more difficult for a black man to apply for an ID card than it is for an Asian, white, or any other race.\"\n\n>Nationally, up to 25% of African-American citizens of voting age lack government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of whites.\n>\n>Texas allows concealed weapons permits for voting, but does not accept student ID cards. Until its voter ID law was struck down, North Carolina prohibited public assistance IDs and state employee ID cards, which are disproportionately held by Black voters. And until recently, Wisconsin permitted active duty military ID cards, but prohibited Veterans Affairs ID cards for voting.\n>\n>A Caltech/MIT study found that minority voters are more frequently questioned about ID than are white voters.\n>\n>Several studies, including a 2014 GAO study, have found that photo ID laws have a particularly depressive effect on turnout among racial minorities and other vulnerable groups, worsening the participation gap between voters of color and whites.\n\n- ACLU infopage. Their sources are all very well cited.\n\nYou've attacked me as being gullible (and therefore should be ignored) or coming here with an agenda (and therefore should not be trusted). While I hope you would be open to hearing my perspective without attacking me, the user, I'm not some shill.\n\n Sure, if all other things were equal, the law would not be able to discriminate. But many voter ID laws are designed with discriminatory intent after analyzing which IDs are more or less likely to be held by which racial groups so even if there was not the filter of economics, poverty, and transportation access (which there are) you would still be wrong.\n", "I think that’s the view of most who see what is going on. Save your pity for the turds who support trimp and his make America hate again movement.", "Many one the left think that is what he means. You know who agrees with them? The actual Nazis. [They think its all about race too](http://www.newsweek.com/trump-shithole-comment-white-nationalists-praise-779958)\n\nSo there you are, in the middle, refusing to hear the dog whistle while the dogs howl and everyone points at the guy puffing his cheeks around a silver tube.", "He’s a pedophile because he made a stupid pedo joke in /r/jokes?", "Thanks mom! (this is why I'm sitting here typing this)", "There’s people all around that are debating the Republican side, scroll all around they are there. They’re just being downvotes to oblivion. ", "That's the gamble you take by living as an illegal immigrant for thirty years... ", "Who is more likely to have the money and time to work through what can be a years long process that costs tens of thousands of dollars? Who does hat advantage?", "It occurred on MLK day.", "Serious question so please don't shoot me for trying to fix my ignorance. Why not become a citizen within those 30 years? If you try to apply do they just deport you and make you start at 0 from outside the country? I honestly don't know a lot about our immigration policies", "I wonder if we could possibly make election day a national holiday and require people to vote. \n\nOh yeah, of course we could. But we don't want to really push this whole democracy thing, could be destabilizing.", "First guess is they qualified for DACA and this individual does not. There are very few avenues to citizenship for illegal aliens who do not qualify for DACA. More info here: http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/legal-options-undocumented-illegal-immigrant-stay.html", "Absolutely, I was just refuting that this guy had any chance of legal status after being here undocumented for more than a year.", "> Dr. King understood that illegal immigration in his time reduced, and still adversely affects job opportunities for black and other minorities in the country legally\n\nThe vast majority of economist argue that immigration, even illegal immigration, is a net positive to the US economy. I'm talking about right and left economist...as long as they come here to work, they are contributing to the economy and creating new consumers for the economy. ", "Pretending a fight for human equality has nothing to do with poor minorities being fucked over is pretty impressive willful ignorance.\n", "Laws are selectively enforced on a daily basis. ", "Most of the kids here don't remember Dubya. They think Trump is the worstest because they have no reference level. ", "Nope. Before you can legally apply for citizenship you must leave the country. Republicans demanded that it would not be fair for those here illegally to skip to the front of the line over those waiting outside the country.\n\nSo people like this man, whose parents brought him here have to go to a country they barely remember and leave their families behind or strip them of the only country they have ever known. ", "Insert Parks & Rec joke", "It's almost as if they are picking the low risk, low hanging fruit", "Because the GOP exists and unfortunately has power in all levels of our government. They believe brown people are inferior, so this is what we get. ", ">Enforcement of immigration laws has nothing to do with race.\n\nIt does when you have ICE focus all their attention on “bad hombres”.", "No it didn’t. Our country has a rich history of shitting on the latest immigrants. The Irish. The Italians. The Mexicans. The mistake here was that it took so long. They should have been detected a long time ago. We have border laws for a reason. \n\nI don’t buy into the notion that for our country to be great we just close our eyes and let whoever in. \n\nI would be curious to know if he made any naturalization attempts in the 30 years he’s been here. ", "I don’t think being into 18 year olds makes you a pedo.", "It's code for \"Why don't we try finally enforcing all these laws we put into place for a good reason and see what happens.\" \n\nNice race-baiting though.", "You can't apply for citizenship except under very specific circumstances . First you must become a permanent resident. Then after 3 or 5 years you can apply for citizenship. ", "Dr. King didn't just fight against racial inequality, but he fought against other injustices of his time, like the Vietnam war.\n\nDr. King never directly addressed the issue of illegal immigration, so your claims are speculation. Possibly the closest he came was this quote from Letter from a Birmingham Jail:\n\n> Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial “outside agitator” idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds.\n\nThis lends a lot of support to the idea that he would be fighting for the rights of immigrants if he were alive today.\n\nEdit: missed a word", "If trump doesn't blunder the US into any wars, Buchanan, and W will both be sitting below him. That said, at the current rate, he's probably gonna earn himself a spot down with Johnson, Harding etc with ease. \n\n", "What does a spanish family being deported have to do with the significance of MLK day. Or is this \"reddidt narrative\"?", "Dude, the guy only had 30 short years to sort himself out. Give him a break.", "And by \"truth\", you mean \"you share my empirically false delusions\".", "Read the headline and thought \"they're deporting Hurley?\", but still tragic for their family.", "Jackson fuckin genocided Indians. Trump is god awful but calling him the worst is stupid and objectively wrong.", "Come to Canada! We’ll take you and your family! Love to have hard working, contributing members of society! And with your tax dollars going to pay for healthcare instead of waging war, we can take care of your family too!", "30 freaking years and makes no effort to get legal. ", "America never was a shining star, better than the rest? Yes it was. We have a long way to go. We must stop sending billions to other countries when we have enough on our plates.", "Only permanent residents [fulfiling certain criteria] (https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Resources/Citizenship%20&%20Naturalization%20Based%20Resources/A%20Guide%20to%20Naturalization/PDFs/M-480.pdf) can apply for citizenship. And there are only a [few ways] (https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/eligibility-categories) to obtain permanent residency. So either they are applying for green card (and not citizenship as you mentioned) under one of these criteria or they are lying to you, or you are lying to us. ", "If immigrants that don't qualify under family, humanitarian, or employment based immigration laws (very few do), then there is the Diversity lottery for countries with low-levels of immigration. Countries with high levels do not qualify (Mexico, the Philipines, China, India, etc). \n\nIf they do qualify for family-based immigration, people from countries like Mexico and the Philippines must wait decades longer than the few years required for persons from countries in Europe. \n\nThere isn't a waiting line for immigration. ", "Marriage isn't a silver bullet for obtaining legal immigration status. \n\nAs the laws are written, he cannot apply for an immigration status adjustment because he is here illegally. He would have to leave the country and apply from... wherever he was born. There's probably a set amount of time that he would have to allow to lapse between his departure from US soil and when he could apply.\n\nI'm going through green card application for my wife and it's so far from a sure thing that we're actually worried that we'll have to leave the country if the application is denied. She's been here for over 10 years legally too (student + H1B). ", "> He would need to leave the country and start the application from outside the country.\n\nAnd in 30 years he didn't do that, so here we are.", "I'm a legal immigrant from Europe with a green card that I've renewed twice. But yeah you're right, I don't know shit.", "Every political stance and legislative position the Trump administration supports and passes intentionally targets and harasses minorities. That is an objective fact. \n\nDenying the udder racism in our government and specifically Trump’s is laughable", "Yeah the young black people don't have the photo ID because they're black you're right. Not because they don't care to vote but because they're black.", "breaking the law doesn't suddenly become ok the longer you do it. if he was embezzeling money for 30 years, no one would be upset about his family being broken up. ", "> We can't selectively enforce them.\n\nExcept they're always selectively enforced. The same way that judges selectively decide the incarceration length.", "Not for this man there wasn't.", "utter, unless you think he's racist against farm animals as well (I wouldn't doubt it)", "How? Seriously, outline the steps for someone in his situation. Don't say \"I knew a guy who did it\" but outline step by step what a man who was brought here illegally at 10 can do.", "I think you're going to be disappointed if you think you're suddenly not going to be around racists abroad and only think it's an American problem. Depending on where you go, your accent and your passport, showing you as American, you'll probably get looked down on here and there from time to time. \n\nTip:Start learning the sport of hockey and put a Canadian flag on your luggage. ", "> I'm not familiar with law enough\n\nObviously\n\n> there was no way for him to apply for permanent residency\n\nWrong.\n\nhe could've:\n\nA. Joined the military\n\nB. Got sponsorship from an employer over the last 30 years \n\nC. Applied for amnesty in the 1980's\n\nD. Engaged in other active service programs through the government like Teach for America, or Americorp\n\nE. Married a US citizen. \n\nEDIT: F. Apply for a 0-1 Visa for individuals who possess extraordinary abilities \n\n Downvote so immigrants have no idea how to become citizens!", "Undocumented? What happened to their documents? Did they lose them or burned in a fire?\n\nOh.\n\nYou mean illegal immigrants. Then just fucking say that.", "Thank you for providing context. ", "k", "He probably doesn't belong to any category that would allow him to apply for residency. Maybe some tenuous family connection that would put him in a queue where he would have to wait 20 years or something.", "You really don't think theres more nuance to it than \"we have border laws for a reason?\" \n\nThis guy was brought here as a child. This country was where he made his life. He raised his family here. He contributed to society here. Border control is fine, but this is more complicated and human than that. ", "It's odd that you cry brigade, yet the only posts getting downvoted into oblivion are the ones that aren't Trump bashing.", ">That's the gamble you take ~~by living as an illegal immigrant for thirty years~~ as a child who finds himself growing up in a country he wasn't born in... \n\nFtfy", ">How do you get to be married (wife stays) and live for 30 years in USA and still be illegal?\n\n\nLack of enforcement of the laws?\n", "Sorry can you cite the quote you are quoting? Quite a nasty quote indeed.", "> So either they are applying for green card (and not citizenship as you mentioned) under one of these criteria or they are lying to you, or you are lying to us. \n\nThere is the possibility that that these people I know are telling the truth, that I am telling the truth and that you, perhaps, don't know quite as much about it as you think you know.", "In general, you are not allowed to apply for LPR (legal permanent resident) status while in the country illegally. There are probably a hundred factors they didn't mention here. Either way, once outside the country he can probably apply to come back. Also since he isn't in chains and is being allowed this goodbye probably means it was a voluntary departure and he isn't barred for 10-20 years like some people are.", "I am all for tougher deportation/immigration laws and border security but events like this only make the world worse. This man should not have been deported. If I could hide someone like that in my house, Anne Frank style, I would. The laws of our country need to better represent our morals and values. This family may need a go fund me account for legal fees. ", "GOOD", "Angry much, fella? You should relax with a cold beer.", "So let gets this straight his family refuse to go with him? I don’t believe there are any laws stopping his family from staying together and leaving with him. I guess his family loves America more than him. Says a lot about America. ", "Being here illegally makes you ineligible. \n\nEdit: please do not downvote the person below me asking for a source. It only serves to hide the additional information provided in response that he, and likely others, are seeking. Thanks. ", "This guy is 40. He's not a child anymore. ", "Which is fucking awful and was carried on for decades (a century+ really) for the country. I'm not arguing it was fucking awful, but Trump's already has serious impact on the world, such as refusing to act on climate change. Killing an entire native peoples? Hell yeah, that's fucking awful. Killing off the entire fucking human population of the Earth just so you can get you and your rich crony friends richer? Fucking disgusting.\n\nTurning a blind eye to humanitarian crises in our country and abroad? Fucking awful. ALLOWING US citizens to suffer for months after a natural disasters because you're a fucking racist? Awful. Allowing our government to become infiltrated with self-service rich pricks who will do nothing for the American people? Awful. \n\nJackson, as fucking racist and awful as he was, did what he thought would benefit America. It was absolutely wrong, but from serving in the military and being a statesmen, to being President, I don't think it can be argued that he personally felt he was trying to better America. \n\nTrump, on the other hand, is simply doing this to get richer and because he's a petulant child who feels spurned by Obama and majority of Americans and he wants them to suffer. \n\nYour refusal to see the impacts of what he and his administration have done already is short-sighted and obtuse. ", " For an American without a job, they see it as an opportunity for employment. The wealth inequality is out of control. ", "https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qmmht/on_mlk_day_ice_deports_jorge_garcia_a_married/dsqe69z/\n\nSo this comment is inaccurate or are you inaccurate?\n", "Do you understand the phrase dog whistle?\n\nBecause it appears you don’t.", ">udder racism\n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/sO4o0Ns.gif", "You know what's more fucked up? Marriage is a legal path to permanent residence. I suspect a little paperwork a few years ago would have saved him from deportation", "You find the best stuff 5-6 levels deep in a thread. :)", "that would be wonderful! thank you for being so considerate of your fellow countrymen and women. please be sure to keep your word tho. Lots of folks made that same statement when Trump won and later decided America was still the best country on Earth. Also, i suggest you research other country's immigration laws before you pick which corner of the world you try to relocate to. Most of them may not accept you.", "So are you going to be mad when Trump signs a law allowing dreamers to stay or are you going to pretend like you were for it the whole time?", "here's the [source](https://twitter.com/nwarikoo/status/952878794007875584)", "join the military. Done.", "Laws are laws, this is true. But just because there is a law against it, doesn't make it right or just. And just because there is no law against something doesn't make it right or just either. Remember, the Nazis had laws too, and everything that happened was within them. ", "There are of course differences between country of origin and what you’re allowed to do ", "ahaha yes keep speaking to your echo chamber where you think this will actually happen", "I seem to remember an illegal immigrant amnesty during one of the bush administrations. Was that longer than 30 years ago?! ", "The letter of the law should not supplant human decency.", "Keep whistling past the graveyard. ", "You guys cannot even afford all the refugees from the middle east you took in 2 years ago. ", "Sorry, that quote? Wasn’t an actual quote was it? :/ \nWhy are you trying to denigrade my knowledge of phrases when you don’t even use quotes fairly?", "They require a greencard.", "So no answer then? Because you need a greencard to do things like join the military.", "you have so much to learn", "Source?", "https://youtu.be/nJ-bIeJ4zOY", "So wait..you actually think everyone here just agrees with you because you think you are right? ohh my. Sorry man but umm reddit you see.. is a giant echo chamber for people who hate trump and don't like laws.", "He’d get deported since he’s here illegally I think but since he has a spouse he can get a visa back here", "> you have so much to learn\n\nThen teach. Please show me how someone without a greencard can join the military short of the MAVNI program.", "I did. There wasn't a way for him short of leaving the country for up to a decade and praying he got in.", "I personally do not wish for anyone who want to stay to be deported, nor do I want anyone that wants to come here not have that opportunity. PERSONALLY I've known some truly incredible, special people from different places around the world that have had to go back. It breaks my heart. But this isn't about my personal experience, it's about the country and the laws written to keep order. \n\nI am for following the rule of the law. If/when he signs that into law, I'll say great! ", "Because the phrase \"Make America Great Again\" is a dogwhistle.\n\nEvery year before and including 2018 America has done bad shit, and will continue to do bad shit. So its the bad shit we ignore from the past and the bad shit we focus on in the present that defines what made America \"great\". What makes MAGA a dogwhistle is that a lot of the bad shit of the past is that America treated women, minorities, etc. badly to horribly. Although things are far from perfect now, the general trend is an improvement of life for these groups. For example: [rates of unemployment for Black or African Americans](https://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet). So if someone says \"we need to go back to the way things were\", and the way things were are worse for some people, then it is viewed as an attack.\n\nIts a \"Southern Strategy\" for the modern age.", "well, he's already married. Do you know what the punishment for bigamy is? ", "What criminal record did he have? Trump said only people with criminal records would be targeted for deportation...\n", "That will never happen without a wall. And the dems really don’t seem to want to work with Trump on DACA", "And you’ll be deported by whatever country you over stay your visa in because it’s only racist for America to enforce immigration laws ", "This is in no way racist. Being an illegal immigrant is....illegal.", "I only sort by controversial, an easy way to weed out all the \"he's orange\" and \"he has tiny hands\" nonsense.", "It's [not possible](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/fiance-marriage-visa-book/chapter11-1.html) to apply for a green card while in the US (\"adjust status\") if you entered illegally.\n\n\n.\n\nEdit: To clarify, I said \"it is not possible\", I'm not taking into account immigration laws that may have allowed this in the past. Similarly \"while in the US\" does not apply to people who are willing to leave the US (either with a provisional unlawful presence \"stateside\" waiver or without). As the article I linked notes, there is a difference between legal and illegal (\"without inspection\") entries. I should have mentioned the Parole in Place program if an immediate family member was a member of the Armed Forces, that's an exception. ", "Illegals shouldn’t have rights. You think you would have rights if you tried to illegally move to Canada or Australia? ", "Breaking the law is a bitch. His parents were terrible people for putting him in this position.", "after deportation, don't you get 'banned' for a while?", "It’s super fucking expensive to become a citizen. The process takes a really long time if you even have the money. They usually recommend you “self deport” instead of dragging you out of the country.", "You forgot who they're making American great again FOR.", "Everything I have read suggests that you need a green card to enlist, or at least that was the case until 2014 when the Pentagon announced undocumented immigrant could enlist. So without a source I am going to assume you have no idea what you are talking about.", "Actually he never said shithole countries. They have the whole meeting recorded. But believe CNN. That was Obama’s travel ban FYI that Trump is enforcing. Deporting illegal aliens because they are here ILLEGALLY. ", "Laws are laws and yet Trump and his cronies continue to break them and nothing is done about it", "They're the best laws. Everybody says so.", "This is not the first issue where each side didn't try to spin the name of the issue in their favor.\n\n\"Death Tax\" vs \"Estate Tax\"\n\n\"Pro Life\" vs \"Pro Choice\" (nice how both sides are Pro, isn't it?)\n\nA lawyer once told me \"illegal\" is a sick bird. Would that make them \"Unlawful Immigrants\" vs \"Undocumented Immigrants\"\n\nFor a while, 35% more Americans favored \"Affordable Care Act\" than favored \"Obamacare\" despite them being different names for the same thing.", "Please, please, never come back. ", "that's probably it, he must have a bad record, that's why", "30 years and you didn't think \"gee, I should get on this being legal thing.\"\n\nEdit: downvote this all you want, but jesus you knowingly break the law for 30 years and are surprised that there is some repercussion? After 30 years, you should know some laws, especially the ones super pertinent to the law you're actively breaking.", "Is citizenship government overregulation?", "> This guy has been here for 3 decades. He IS a citizen.\n\nLack of law enforcement doesn't mean a law goes away and doesn't exist. ", "(I support neither side, this is unbiased information) Being an \"illegal\" alien isn't the same thing as doing something \"illegal.\" The former is more of a \"not the correct kind\" type of illegal, like making an illegal move in a board game, you're not suddenly breaking laws and deserving of jail time. These people are not breaking laws that would be akin to embezzling which carries a sentence, they're \"illegal\" in the sense that this is not the proper place they're supposed to be. This is why we deport them back to where they are supposed to he instead of arresting them and filling our jails with illegal residents. More or less, this man has not broken the law, but he's broken the rules. This is why you see mayors and senators defending \"sanctuary cities,\" they believe that the problem with them being in a place they're not supposed to be can be fixed by allowing them to be there and they don't believe it to be akin to committing an actual crime. Of course, it's all legally grey.", "Hey if I evaded tax’s for 30 years I’m sure no one would have pity on me for getting taken away from my family. He had 30 years to try and get citizenship. To fix his situation and chose not to. ", "Like many counties, one does not need to be a US Citizen to marry here. So feel free to hold your destination wedding on the beach in Hawaii or at a ski resort in Vermont. \n\nMarrying here does not automatically make you a citizen. Although if you marry a citizen, you can apply for resident alien status and later naturalization. \n\nBut if he was undocumented, he was not eligible for a green card upon marrying a citizen. \n\nAnd if he was undocumented and didn’t qualify for DACA, his opportunities to become a citizen were practically non existent.", "Still shouldn’t feel sorry for him. He knew he was here illegally for 30 years.", "He had no opportunity to become a citizen outside of leaving the country for several years then applying. He was a child, and there was no time between then and now for citizenship to realistically happen.", "Thank you for your insight and feel the same way as you for the most part. I don't think deporting a tax paying family man with no criminal record whose lived here for 30 years is the right thing to do. Destroying families isn't the right thing to do. ICE should focus on criminals and I'm not talking about \"since they're here illegally they're criminals\" criminals.", "Should have done it legal 30 years today. Would not have had this problem. ", "seems like E applies given the title, unless the wife is also illegal?", "You’re getting downvoted bc liberal reddit doesn’t like what you have to say. In fact it’s ignorant and racist. They don’t agree with what you have to say so your wrong ", "Lolz @ a trump supporter criticizing echo chambers. ", "\"Shouldn't have broke the law\"\n\n-People in response to escaped slaves\n\n-People in response to interracial couples getting married\n\n-People in response to blacks drinking from the white water fountain\n\n-People in response to Jews deported back to Germany after escaping the Nazis\n\nYou will be going down on this list for future generation to scorn at.", "I’m still trying to figure out when they’re going to start deporting all the European descendants of those who came here with Columbus; on the May Flower; and other ships because they’re technically all illegals. ", "Then get off Reddit ", "He would have been a minor for the first 8 years he was an undocumented immigrant. It’s hard to blame a minor for their immigration status.\n\nOnce he was an adult, he may not have had much of a connection with his place of birth. No one to go back to. Nothing to go back to. So it is easy to understand why he might have remained in the US. ", "I agree that nonsense has no place in a serious discussion about serious problems.\n\nNow, if only we could get the man to stop taking the bait himself and commenting in response to that crap. I am running out of patience for news cycles that start with \"Trump tweeted a response to...\"\n\nEDIT: The joy of being a moderate is that BOTH sides downvote you. ;-)", "Being an illegal alien... is in fact doing something illegal. Not only is in the name.. but they are breaking the law by being here without permission and or following the rules.\n\nIt's not that complicated. There is no grey area. The only reason people think there is a grey area is because folks have gotten away with it for years... but it was illegal when he was \"brought\" here... it was illegal the entire time he was here, and it is illegal now. \n\nThe only reason it seems \"Gray area\" is because he didn't get caught, or folks turn their head and ignored it which allowed it continue.", "But at least they’re trying to help people instead of breaking up families.", "Good. ", "Serious question so please don't shoot me... if it was so easy to become a citizen, don't you think every undocumented migrant would jump at the chance, including this guy?", "It is not a legal path to permanent residence if you are undocumented. It is only a viable path for documented immigrants. \n\nThis gentlemen was brought to the US as an undocumented immigrant when he was a child. Given his age, he never had a shot at becoming a permanent resident or a citizen.", "If he marries a US citizen, nothing short of marriage fraud can deny him that benefit. \n\nSource: Immigration inspector who has seen some seriously horrible people become America's problem.", "Yes, for ten years", "It depends on the charge. the 237 section of the INA details the deportable charges. Unlawful presence in and of itself has several categories.", "Same thing who cares", "There was thirty fucking years worth of time! ", "I have absolutely no insight which is why I asked. I would assume it wasn't easy but with 30 years of time I was wondering if that was something that could be done over a period. \n\nI wasn't sure if there were qualifiers, if trying to do the right thing came with me consequences, or if there was any sort of \"been here paying taxes so lock me in as American\" type thing at one point.", "There was no path to citizenship since he was already an undocumented immigrant. \n\nIf he had made himself known to immigration officials, there is nothing they could do to help him and he would be at risk for deportation. ", "Where does it say that the man in the original picture was evading taxes? How would he even be paying for taxes at 10 years old?", "Yeah these scenarios are totally equatable.", "FUCKED UP!! ", "It's almost as if we should be making it great again ", "That's right, if you've entered illegally or overstayed a legal visa, you have to leave and then try to apply to return legally to begin the citizenship process.\n\n\n\nOf course, then it's a difficult, slow, expensive process with zero guarantees", "If your parents sneak you and your sister into Disney Land, and then get kicked out... Is it Disney Lands fault they had to leave, or is it your parents fault? \n\nSon of a legal, poor immigrant from South America btw.", "Please find reference to some law for that.", "Why are you assuming he didn't pay taxes? \n\nYou can't just \"try and get citizenship.\" In most situations, you need to leave the country - and your family - to apply. I can understand the guy not wanting to risk literally everything. ", "If he is illegally in the country to begin with, none of those apply", "Sure.\n\nhttps://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume7-PartB-Chapter2.html\n\n\n>In 1960, Congress amended INA 245(a) and made adjustment of status available to any otherwise eligible applicant who has been “inspected and admitted or paroled” into the United States. \n\n>...\n\n>This requirement must be satisfied before the foreign national applies for adjustment of status. If an applicant has not been inspected and admitted or inspected and paroled before filing an adjustment application, the officer must deny the adjustment application.\n\n>...\n\n>##Inspection\n\n>Definition and Scope\n\n>Inspection is the formal process of determining whether a foreign national may lawfully enter the United States. Immigration laws as early as 1875 specified that inspection must occur prior to a foreign national’s landing in or entering the United States and that prohibited foreign nationals were to be returned to the country from which they came at no cost or penalty to the conveyor or vessel. Inspections for air, sea, and land arrivals are now codified in the INA, including criminal penalties for illegal entry. \n\n>To lawfully enter the United States, a foreign national must apply and present himself or herself in person to an immigration officer at a U.S. port of entry when the port is open for inspection. A foreign national who arrives at a port of entry and presents himself or herself for inspection is an applicant for admission. Through the inspection process, an immigration officer determines whether the foreign national is admissible and may enter the United States under all the applicable provisions of immigration laws. \n\n\n>As part of the inspection, the foreign national must: \n\n>- Present any and all required documentation, including fingerprints, photographs, other biometric identifiers, documentation of status in the United States, and any other requested evidence to determine the foreign national’s identity and admissibility; and\n\n>- Establish that he or she is not subject to removal under immigration laws, Executive Orders, or Presidential Proclamations.\n\nI am not a lawyer, and do not know to what extent this would have applied prior to 2001: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/pressrelease/Section245ProvisionLIFEAct_032301.pdf", "The last time amnesty was granted en masse was during the Reagan administration, so... yes. It’s been more than 30 years. ", "Undocumented=illegal immigrant ", "At 10yrs old do you understand all this crap. I don't know any 10yr old who does", "When was he supposed to leave the country for several years? Where would he stay? He'd have to stop everything in his life for several years and come back. Do you believe this is realistic? Could you do it?", "If I was the guy I would not want my family to leave US for Mexico. Believe it or not Detroit is safer than some places in the world. Add to that his wife probably has a job and his kids are already in school and have lives there", "Yeah this post is really misleading ", "Yeah Mexico has been on a watch list for 30 years.", "Had thirty years to correct it also. No pity.", "Thanks", "Lol. Shhhhh.....don’t disrupt the narrative ", ">>Enforcement of immigration laws has nothing to do with race.\n>\n>It does when you have ICE focus all their attention on “bad hombres”.\n\nThats not true. A lot of Indian Americans on r/ABCDesis were freaking out when ICE raided 7/11's. ", "But he wasn’t 10 for 30 years. You’re making excuses when there aren’t any. ", "“I don’t buy into the notion that for our country to be great we just close our eyes and let whoever in.”\n\nAre you lucky that the First Nations didn’t share your ideology. When Europeans started showing up in North and South America and the Caribbean, they didn’t exactly have visas. \n", "I met a local illegal immigrant that does painting for a local business.. There are about 5 illegals on staff getting paid under the table.. He said to become legal he would have to pay 25k in taxes and his boss would have to vouch for hin.. In other words.. I don't think this guy paid taxes", "That's exactly the clarification I was looking for. I guess in my mind it seemed like there just had to be a path for someone who was already here and productive with roots. But i guess that's asking too much of lawmakers : /\n\nThank you for letting me know :)", "E does not apply. Is here illegally. Makes him ~~illegible~~ ineligible for adjustment of status.", "He broke immigration law by coming into the country illegally ", "Yup we'll be sending this guy back to poverty, corruption, cartels, away from his family. And maybe I'd understand if we didn't have a part in that but then you look and realize US gun laws and drug laws are responsible for aiding these Cartels. Most people think people are getting gun illegally from Mexico but it's the opposite. They're getting their guns [from](https://www.vox.com/2016/1/14/10771628/gun-violence-america-mexico) us due to out extremely lax laws. They're getting their business from our fucked up drug laws. It's like we have our hand in so much shit in this world and then treat the people who try to escape these horrors like they're villains. If you think sending this guy back to horrors he has no responsibility for while our government holds a portion of responsibility isn't comparable to these situation I think you need to read up on what this guy is being sent back to and why it's like that. All while his family is left without him.", "And that's why I was asking. It seemed, in my mind at least, that there would be some track for someone who already lived here with roots. Think you for clarifying :)", ">>That's the gamble you take ~~by living as an illegal immigrant for thirty years~~ as a child who finds himself growing up in a country he wasn't born in... \n>\n>Ftfy\n\nHaha I can't wait for the \"but he was just a child\" excuse to pop up when said individuals are 80years old. ", "Good riddance!", "Are you a professor? ", "The fact that he's being deported kind of substantiates that...", "Of course not. Being undocumented means he got to keep all his pay without having to pay into the system. Yet receives benefits!", "MAVNI..if this guy actually is 40..he was 30 when the program started and could have join the military. ", "None of those would have worked.\n\nHe was a minor when amnesty was an option in the 1980’s.\n\nThe other path’s would have been closer to someone who entered the US without documentation in the 1980’s and remained. The posts suggest that he entered the county around 1987. He is neatly disqualified from almost every path to citizenship, excluding a few that are extreemly restrictive and not available to most immigrants.", "What I never said he evaded taxes?! I was making a comparison. ", ">How? Seriously, outline the steps for someone in his situation. Don't say \"I knew a guy who did it\" but outline step by step what a man who was brought here illegally at 10 can do.\n\nHe can go back, wait out the ban and come back legally if he is so desperate to live in the US. There is no law that says he has to park his butt in Mexico only once he is deported.he can apply for legal residency to Canada or any other western country.\n\nI am sure at 39, he has worked hard on his career and built up sufficient points to qualify for residency in any part of the Western world. \n", "There’s a reason why it’s called illegal immigration, because it’s illegal no exceptions.", "He can’t apply for citizenship while in the country illegally.", "I'd imagine he actually is subject to the [10 year bar](https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-2006.html#0-0-0-2633) because he was in the US illegally for more than 1 consecutive year. ", "John Oliver talked about his journey to gain citizenship and he had sponsors, money, and was from a more \"desirable\" country and he talked about how difficult the process for him was. If he, someone with the best case scenario can talk about how difficult it was to gain citizenship it's exponentially more difficult for someone with out money, sponsors and from a \"undesirable\" country. ", "Oh I didn't realize Canada had a Reddit account.", "Well he gotta go back. Just that simple. We have laws for a reason ", "No, that's not true at all.", "https://www.daytranslations.com/blog/2017/06/undocumented-immigrant-legal-u-s-citizen-8860/\n\n\"One of the most common options for an illegal, undocumented immigrant to gain legal status is to get married to a U.S. citizen. However, it must be stressed that it should be a real, bona fide and valid marriage. This will make you, under the U.S. immigration laws, an immediate relative. Theoretically, this also makes you eligible for a green card after the application process is done.\n...\nBut if your entry to the country was illegal from the start, for example, you crossed the border without passing through an inspection point, as an undocumented immigrant, it will be very difficult to change your status to legal permanent resident, even if you are legally married to a U.S. citizen. The only option you have as an undocumented immigrant is if you fall into one of the categories below under Section 245(i).\n\n1.A family member or your employer filed an immigrant visa petition/labor certification for you before January 14, 1998 or between January 14, 1998 and April 21, 2001.\n2.You can show proof of your physical presence in the U.S. on the date this particularly law was passed – December 21, 2000.\n...\nAnother way for an undocumented immigrant to become legal is for you to attend the interview for your green card at the U.S. consulate in your home country. This is called consular processing.\n\nHowever, expect to be penalized for your illegal stay in the U.S. If you stayed illegally as an undocumented immigrant for six months or more, you must spend three years in your home country. If your illegal stay was for one year or more, the penalty is 10 years outside the U.S. Therefore, if your illegal stay in the U.S. is nearing six months, it is best to leave the country immediately to avail of consular processing.\n\nYou can explore a provisional waiver (Form I-601A, Application for Provisional Unlawful Presence Waiver) if you are still in the U.S. Once approved, you can return to the U.S. after you pass the consular interview. This provisional waiver applies to a U.S. citizen's undocumented immigrant spouse and children\n\nIt is meant to keep the family united. You must prove that the family will go through \"extreme and unusual hardships.'' \"\n\n", "Sure there was, he just didn't do it. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been hard, time consuming and expensive, but there was a way to do it.", "What does someone do at 10 years old? ", "If he had been older when amnesty was an option, or if he was brought to the US as a child later than he was, yes. But our immigration policy is a patchwork of different laws. Quite a few people don’t qualify simply because of when they entered the county.", "So basically give up his entire life and pray. Although then people would argue that since he was here illegally he doesn't deserve to get back in so really it wouldn't have happened anyway.", "He can’t since he is there illegally and he has to be out of the country to apply.", "RIDDANCE ", "She was probably born here and i dont know there sitituiton maybe its a money issue that kept them from applying for a green card. Home land security/ immigration fees are super high. And immigration lawyers even more expensive. I know in my stituation i came to the us with my family when i was 4. In 1984 my mom applied with immigation a few months later and was told to wait. About a year later i dont know exactly but through word of mouth my mom and many others were robbed by a husband and wife team who possed as so called \" Imigration Experts\" of hundreds of dollars possibly more. \n\nIt was not till 1997 that my mom hired a real immigration attorney a real lawyer this time. He filed a new case for us under something else that i dont rember but with in 6 months i had a work permit and my drivers license. With in a year we had our green cards. \n ", "He was 10?", "What's that saying about good intentions?\n\nAny time I hear about someone promoting taking in refugees I want to vomit. You've got two families staying in your home, right?", ">Most of the kids here don't remember Dubya. They think Trump is the worstest because they have no reference level. \n\nSeriously judging from the post content, it seems like the average age of the posters on this sub are between 15-18. Also could explain their naive world view and lack of critical thinking skills. \n\nI really wish there was a flair for \"angsty teen\" so the rest of us could leave them alone to wallow in self pity in their echo chamber.", "...and he had 30 years. His parents fucked him over not the US Govt ", "That way was to leave for a decade or longer and just hope. There was no definite path to citizenship.", "So you grow up go to school and graduate to find out you're not a US citizen but actually from some country you have no memory of. You'll self deport and then apply for immigration?\n\nThat country may not even have a record of you and possibly not allow you entry.\n\nYou can't even fly there normally because you have no passport to either there or here.\n\nYou may never ever get back in because an application is not a guarantee.\n\nBullshit.", "You can’t apply for citizenship unless you leave the US.", ">Because the GOP exists and unfortunately has power in all levels of our government. They believe brown people are inferior, so this is what we get. \n\nDude you are really racist", "So this fixed all our problems right? Or do we move the blame on to another minority?", "I’m sure he’s scrolling through Reddit on his bus ride over the border ", "You got a spare bedroom to help people looking for a new start? ", "Multiple people have posted sourced information that contradicts this.", "Couldn’t do that unless he left the country ", "Just to clarify, you can apply for a Green Card if you are in the country illegally, as long as you entered legally. So if you crossed the desert into Arizona in the dead of night without stopping at the official entry point for permission, you cannot apply. But if you flew in on a visa and when the visa expired you stayed in the USA, you can apply.", "You know they have ladders right", "You have to leave the country to apply for citizenship", "Who do you think these abcds are hiring? Illegal Hispanics for the most part.", "Yeah its so easy to pick up your family and move to another country. What a stupid question.", "As Americans, most of us still can't wrap our heads around someone being considered an \"illegal immigrant\" when the only reason we're here today is because our families immigrated.", "I never assumed that. I was making a comparison. Well he was still risking everything by staying here illegally and look where that got him. ", "Yeah but the laws should allow him to apply to become a citizen.", "I don’t buy that idea at all. There’s such an excess of jobs where I work we literally bring people in from South America and Jamaica to fill the positions, and we’re still constantly understaffed.", "I don't see how this is a governmental fault. This is his parents' doing. Thry knew the game they were playing and assumed responsibility for the consequences on their son's behalf. ", "The path was to return to his country of origin and seek the proper process to gain legal entry and status. If he had no record in the US he would have had a chance. I’m not surprised that they don’t want to do it the harder way but you shouldn’t be surprised that they know they are here illegally and continue to stay they way. ", "Having a shitty history doesn’t mean we should continue down that path. What kind of logic is that? Also, there is no current citizenship path for most people in this man’s position. His only option is to love back to the country of birth and go through the normal and long immigration process. That would mean leaving his family. \n\nThe lack of nuance and empathy from so many hardline immigration folks astounds me. ", "He was 10 when his parents moved him to the US. Look, I’m all for deporting illegal immigrants, but there’s a huge huge difference between someone that was forcibly moved vs moved on their own volition. ", "Why? Why should the US give priority status to an illegal alien over immigrants that are willing to do it right? ", "You do know regular tax payers are being deported, and deported at a cost to other tax payers?\n\nIf you want to stop sending billions to other countries deport the companies owned by foreign money and the susbet of wealthy who pay no taxes.", "Great info. Fuck the down voters. Its your politicians and their lobbyist you should be down voting. ", "It's like saying \"I have been speeding and driving recklessly every day for the last 20 years and never hurt any one.\"", "Totally reasonable question that i think a lot of people are confused about. ", "Well, the kindness towards others can only go so far before your cupboards are bare. This is probably not how I would handle the illegal immigrant problem. It would probably be easier to grandfather everyone in and then start making them pay fees that are higher taxes until they become US citizens.", "No he didn't. He probably found out in his late teens.", "Try not paying taxes for 30 years and see what happens to you. \n\nTitle should read: Man evades taxes for 30 years, doesn't get prison time. ", "It depends on how the immigration violation happened. If they entered the country illegally, then it is a misdemeanor under federal law. If they overstayed their visa, then it is a civil violation.", "How exactly should he have gotten citizenship ", "/u/nofunhere is just full of shit. I already pointed out that the vast majority of economists would agree that even illegal immigrants are net positives to the economy....so nofunhere lied with “Dr. King understood that illegal immigration in his time reduced, and still adversely affects job opportunities for black and other minorities in the country legally.”\n\n\n/u/nofunhere won’t respond to you or me or anyone else because he knows he is full of shit and just wanted to make an anti immigration post ", "Wouldn't A apply? Or would they report him to ICE? I'm guessing that only works for permanent residents?", "and you can see how Mexico's strict gun laws are helping the citizens protect themselves when the cops and army wont do it ", "His parents were assholes to gamble against his future that we would just let him stay for life. Mexico will get a good guy soon. ", "See, that's why no one takes people like you seriously. You assume people's watching habits and use it as an insult. The Washington Post first ran the story, with several more checking their sources and reporting it as well. Then a senator in the room confirmed it, and the only debate over his words with two Republican senators that were present is over whether or not he said \"shithouse\" instead of \"shithole\". Conservative columnist Erick Erickson even said Trump was calling friends to brag about the “shithole” remark, saying it would play well to his base. Give me that recording that shows he never said it, until then I'll just ignore you for the apologist that you are.\n\nObama's law wasn't a travel ban, it was simple and lawful restrictions. Obama’s Iraqi visa policy in 2011 did not ban Iraqis from entering the country. Obama’s immigration policy did not treat people with passports from the seven countries as unusually dangerous terrorism threats. And Obama’s policies never approached anything like the breadth, cynicism, and incompetence of Trump’s executive order. Trump took it overboard, which was obviously knocked down as unconstitutional. It's like you didn't even research this and are just parroting things you heard from your preferred echo chamber.", " Pay them more. Amazingly, people know that the jobs that a lot of illegals hold are low skilled, low wage jobs. This wages remain low due to the surplus of labor. They are smart enough to understand supply and demand as well as economic competition for resources. ", "Please link to that. As far as I know, there is nothing other than 6C ( fraud/misrep) that will prevent someone who marries a USC from obtaining CR (conditional residency) aka a pathway to citizenship", "Come on over Mr Garcia we have more than enough room for you and your family here in good ol Canada!!", "He was 10 when he entered the country he didn’t have a choice, the parents are to blame but the US is basically all he knows.", "Sure, because immigration laws are slavery... Do you people take yourselves seriously at all, or do you just say this stupid shit to keep up appearances?", "Who was/is the most horrible person, or people, become Americans? And what were their circumstances?", "Adios amigo ", "That and he might not know where to get identifying doccumemts. Like a birth certificate. That shit would be crazy hard to do after 30 years...", "Well, if you aren’t full of shit all over this thread.\n\n>It is no more difficult for a Mexican to apply for residency that for a Swede to apply.\n\nThe US allows essential the same number of immigrants from Mexico and Sweden. Yet, Mexico has about 100million people. So if you’re from Sweden and wanted to immigrate to the US, it’s very easy. If you’re from México, you are far less likely to be accepted ", "Well, that happens when you have a racist shithead in the white house. ", "No understand or compassion with you huh?", "He can’t legally file a return which in itself is against the law. He may have worked on the books, he may have falsified identification (also illegal), but even if his proper taxes were taken out of his check he still may not have paid all of his property taxes et al. \n\nBtw. He risked literally everything everyday he stayed in the US knowing he had illegal status. ", "Just getting it ready for The Purge. ", "That's only if he was out of the country originally. Someone illegally living in the US already, married to a US citizen or not, is ineligible. There are very few exceptions to this, though there are some.", "> A. Joined the military\n\nSeems that doesn't work unless you're documented\n\n> B. Got sponsorship from an employer over the last 30 years\n\nDefinitely not possible. No corporation can hire him as an employee.\n\n> C. Applied for amnesty in the 1980's\n\nNot sure. Others say does not apply.\n\n> D. Engaged in other active service programs through the government like Teach for America, or Americorp\n\nProbably same as A\n\n> E. Married a US citizen.\n\nThis would work but would need to somehow leave US and enter another country without a passport after getting married and then apply.\n\n> EDIT: F. Apply for a 0-1 Visa for individuals who possess extraordinary abilities\n\nSame as E. You cannot apply for visas while in the US. Even the normal fiancé visa requires you to apply for and get approval before entry. Even a business visa requires you to leave to get renewal.\n", "Correct! He was 10. But once he realized he didn’t have a SSN or birth certificate (probably 18 and up) he should have taken the necessary steps to become legal. If the US is all he knows then he better Wikipedia Mexico. “US is all he knows” is NOT a valid or legal argument to grant someone citizenship. ", "I'm guessing you didn't even peak at what I posted. Can't exactly have useful strict gun laws in a country filled with corruption and sitting right next to a country where anyone can easily buy them and send them illegally wherever they want just like 70% of the guns the Cartel gets its hands on. Now we'll all go back to praising the perfect US and villianzing anyone who dares protest it while the government meddles in other Countries and fucks them up and send back anyone who tries to escape the mess we help create. Then we get these same patriotic America-loving folks to attack all people kneeling and people trying to escape horror while cheering on our next meddling in our next third world country oh sorry I mean shithole.", "Which is bullshit, because here is a guy with a family, a career, and a spotless record, who is a great example of the kind of person that we want to be here, and he had basically no options. And now his kids are without their father, his wife is without her husband, and he has to start living in a country where he hasn’t resided for 20 years and probably has few connections. \n\nWhat good does this do to anyone? What benefit is served here? I’m at a total loss to name any.", "It will but it will come with dropping chain migration which is more effective than a wall. ", "Actually, that's not the point of sanctuary cities. They actually have nothing to do with immigration whatsoever&mdash;it's about effective law enforcement. Police find it much more difficult to investigate crimes and arrest criminals if people won't cooperate with them, and criminals find it much easier to operate unreported if people aren't willing to talk to the police. For obvious reasons, undocumented immigrants aren't willing to talk to the police in non-sanctuary cities.\n\nThe purpose of being a sanctuary city is to promise your undocumented residents that they won't be deported for cooperating with the police. They can report crimes, give witness statements, and even appear in court as experts or witnesses, without fear of deportation. This makes it significantly easier and safer for the police to operate, and significantly more difficult for criminals to operate.\n\nIt's also just fiscally responsible. Immigration enforcement is a federal matter, not a state or local one. Why should a state or a city spend their limited budget doing the federal government's job for them, when they could spend it on things that benefit their residents?", "So couldn't he go back to Mexico for a while and apply? If his wife has citizenship he should be able to get it. It would suck but it's 10x better than getting deported and banned from the US for 10 years.", "What metric for job availability are you using? The idea that \"there aren't enough jobs\" can be broken down a few ways, most notably between nationalist and internationalist treatments. A nationalist would say that whatever jobs are being created belong to members of the nation first and members of foreign entities second, because the intra-nation infrastructure was designed and funded by that nation's populace. And an internationalist would say that the ability of people to make new jobs with lower or more specific compensation will attract people from all over the world to fill them, wherever they may appear, so they should go to those people for the sake of getting someone to fill the position and increase productivity in the short term. But neither give the whole story, they're just starting points.\n\nOne way or another, someone is going to create jobs for lower compensation. They'll be created in America or they'll be created in Mexico or wherever people congregate for lower wages. In some ways, it's better to try and stimulate infrastructure development in other nations so that they grow their overall economies at a faster pace and don't need to venture across the border illegally to find decent work. But no one thinks about that in times like this. ", "They don't independently verify it, but the Freep article linked above quotes his relatives as saying he has been paying taxes. ", "You don't speak for most Americans. \n\nIt is not hard to understand why a large nation that wants to provide strong social benefits will need to enforce a border. People that payed into the system get to benefit from the system. \n\nThat being said, I don't agree with what is happening here, because the man was brought here as a child, and the law offered him no recourse. ", "You do know there was literally no way for him to get citizenship right? The only way really to do so would be to go back to his country and do so from there which can take years, decades even.\n\nHow is it his fault that he was brought over when he was 10 years old? ", "So you're telling me that I should feel guilty of an illegal who had 30 years to become a citizen? Nah\n\nAlso, the mods should ban political photos since it causes division", "damn 11 year olds overstaying their welcome.", "So we should just let them stay here with no consequences. Great idea ", "Alright we went from talking about deportation to drug and gun laws you may want to slow your roll.\n\nI'm not saying there couldn't be a better solution but the problem starts with his parents who knowingly entered the country illegally and then didn't do anything about securing their children's futures. He also had X amount of time to nip the issue in the bud or mitigate the damage. He's not innocent in this, no matter how shitty the situation is.\n\nIf the situation is so bad in Mexico then that's the problem that needs fixing, not US immigration policies that do what they are intended to do. Taking on refugees/immigrants is a BURDEN, it is not FREE, the American people will pay for it literally and figuratively.", "The trumpets hate your wife just as much as much as they do illegals, they just haven't found a way to justify shitting on documented immigrants yet. ", "Like that racist tax cut that only gave white people cuts? Get out of here with your ignorant baiting. ", "Law enforcement looks the other way for 30 years.", "Wow, 30 years to do the right thing and figure out a legal path to citizenship. I bet he figured out the welfare system lickity-split.\n\nBye Felicia", "So f’d up! What is wrong with this country???", ">Having a shitty history doesn’t mean we should continue down that path\n\nWhy did you establish a counterpoint to a point i never made? I made a simple correction and nothing more. ", "I am now heart broken. MLK would hate this!", "so he was illegal and the law was carried through\n\nok", "idk its pretty easy to wrap my head around. You got a first world country right next to a bunch of third world countries. Most people want a better life for themselves the easiest way possible but it isnt practical to just open up the floodgates.", "Yes, that would be the one way to stay legally. That shouldn’t come as a surprise when it’s exactly the only way to do it. ", "You're right, he should have gone back across the border when he was 11 and filed for proper citizenship status. If he had done that he might actually be an American citizen 5 or 10 years from now, or beheaded by the cartels, one of those.\n\n/s\n\nEdit: ITT, very stable geniuses.\n\nEdit edit: Wow, the most downvoted comment I've ever had. And all it took was a derogatory Trump comment in 2018. I accept gladly, you snowflakes.", "See that's why real folks say fuck a law. \n\nYou law riding dick bags can jump my shit but there are times to obey and times to tell the man to suck a dick. \n\nThis is a dick suck time. Fuck those folks who made this decision and the low level dick riders who carries it out for pay. \n\nThe speed limit is 65... fuck that law on a sunny day with no traffic or I'm late to work... \n\nNo all you toe the line cock suckers can go all \"but it's the law\" like the good goddamn slaves you've been raised to be.... ", "> Immigration inspector who has seen some seriously horrible people become America's problem.\n\nWhaaaaaaat? Reddit tells me we don't need immigration reform and everyone should be allowed in. ", "It's not slavery and I didn't say it was. And I didn't say I'm against any and all immigration laws altogether. I want them to change to help people like this. This man and those like him deserve protection. We can't just meddle in countries help fuck them up and then villanize ever person who tries to escape those horrors. This man is escaping cartels, extreme poverty, corruption, a government that won't help him. Now go back to villanizing good people just trying to make a life for their families and people kneeling during the anthem all the whole cheering on the USA USA USA's next scandal in whatever third world country.", "If they entered undocumented as this guy has they cannot adjust their status without entering legally, which of course in his situation because of the deportation, he cannot do for 10 years.\n", "What a slave.... ", "My grandma didn't know she was an illegal immigrant (from Canada) until the past few years. Her mom brought her here when she was a little girl. She's been married 4 times and has had legal jobs and paid rent to places.", "I'm Canadian and I don't remember agreeing to take this guy.", "Good deal.", "What was illegal about Columbus coming here again? I forget, can you quote me that law? Or did you want to take this dumbass statement further back and just say anyone not from the fertile crescent is an illegal immigrant? ", "If his parents embezzled money for 30 years and used it to give him a $10/week allowance when he was ten years old, we probably wouldn't throw him in jail. ", "Are you saying \"spanish\" as a technicality, or do you think he's being sent back to Spain?\n\nEither way though, him being deported means Detroit will be a better place. Wages will go up, unemployment will go down, crime will go down, etc. MLK Jr. would have probably been for deporting him as well.", "Great, hopefully they kept the family together 👍 ", "> nation that wants to provide strong social benefits\n\nC-...Canada?", "They finally got him. Another ICE success story. I hope they are proud of themselves.", "Mostly people with previous fraud/misrepresentation in the immigration (administrative non-criminal) law, like facilitating entry under false pretenses, assuming a fake identity, obtaining bona fide documents via fraud, etc...\n\nThe worst were people with lengthy criminal records. The one that comes to mind is a guy who was committing crimes when he was a LPR (green card holder) but who graduated to much worse (that would have previously gotten him deported) once he became a USC", "Why the fuck bring up our shitty history of how we treat immigrants and then seem to elude it’s ok to continue to treat immigrants shitty? Sure ours just saying it’s the current law, but it was the laws that changed that corrected or past shitty treatment of the Irish and other immigrants in the past. ", "Illegal immigrant finally deported after stealing our resources for 30 years. Liberals think we should be sad, but this is actually a win. ", "the guy is easily excitable, I'll give you that!", "OP linked the article that explains.\n\n>Garcia has no criminal record and pays taxes. He is barred from entering the US for at least 10 years.", "ICE is pathetic and lazy.", "Legally speaking, you are correct. Morally speaking, absolutely not. This is a person, do not use his illegal immigration status to dehumanize him, show even a shred of empathy.", "I remember how bad Bush was. Trump cant go a day without toying with his oath to the Constitution. Were it not for the checks and balances and sentiment of the public then he might be able to live up to people's biggest concerns about him. Hes an authoritarian in a way that Bush wasnt. He tried to pass an unconstitutional travel ban and was stopped by the courts. Bush weakened democracy and our economy. Trump is the sledgehammer to the cracks in the wall. The man doesnt even know the Constitution, how is he supposed to faithfully execute it? I have no problem saying very surely hes in the Top 5. George W is up there too. ", "DACA was only supposed to be a temporary program, why were people upset it was overturned? \n\nThis is like the affordable care act and companies being paid literally illegally after the Supreme Court ruled they were and Trump doing nothing but stopping the illegal payments being made to them on behalf of the government. Why are people upset about something that should already be happening again?", "Honestly I didn't read the article so I didn't know where specifically he was from. I didn't want to limit myself to saying \"Mexican\". I just dislike the misleading OP headline", "Bye. ", "You're wrong mate. Regardless of his status, if he marries a USC, the USC can petition USCIS with [Form I-130](https://www.uscis.gov/i-130)", "People used to be proud to be American..this is just disgraceful", "Or he could, you know, become a productive member of his home countries economy. ", "Kinda making a lot of assumptions about him from a single photo, don't you think ?", "That is not correct friend. All that must be done for an alien to adjust status from within the US, if they're married to a USC, is to file a [Form I-130](https://www.uscis.gov/i-130) with USCIS", "I bring up our laws because the US government has its hand in the situation in Mexico. That's what you don't get, people like this guy who are just innocent victims trying to get out are made out to be villains and the US government treats them like that meanwhile they're sticking their hands right in countries like Mexico and helping stir shit up. It's like we help destroy their homes and then they try to get out and we say nope sorry you need to go back and fix it poor guy with no education or power who's life is threatened on a daily basis. There are illegal immigrants who don't deserve protection, who commit crimes who don't seek to escape the life they had in their old country this man is not one of them. He is completely innocent in all of this.", "It makes republicans dicks hard to fuck over minorities.", "Bro... the things I've seen would make a crack-addicted transvestite streetwalker blush.", ">Lack of enforcement of the laws? \n\nThe exact opposite, he isn't eligible to apply for citizenship because he was brought here illegally.", "what if you entered on a tourist/student visa?", "But you don't understand! That lazy mexican welfare guy is taking away jerbs from honest americans! Don't you see!?\n\nXD I see people don't do sarcasm. Thought for sure jerbs would be more than enough ", "No. [I read an article about him.](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2018/01/15/jorge-garcia-daca-deported-mexico-immigration/1033296001/)", "I think you meant does not in the first sentence, which is a pretty big distinction.\n\nSource: knows people who have been married in the U.S. who are not U.S. citizens.", "> But once he realized he didn’t have a SSN or birth certificate (probably 18 and up) he should have taken the necessary steps to become legal\n\nGee, you totally sound like you know about how immigration laws work in America.\n\nYou can't just \"get\" a SSN like it's a fucking credit card. \n\n> If the US is all he knows then he better Wikipedia Mexico\n\nAight man, go eat a dick", "Man please. We have immigration laws for a reason. You can save all that “sympathy” bullchit. The law is the law. The US has no moral obligation to accept him. Now, if YOU want to help—send his wife some money. ", "If USA goes to shit and our economic status resembles Mexico's, I guarantee Canada will need to bolster it's border patrolling. Strong social nets are a great idea, but they can only handle so much strain before the net snaps. ", "Impeach him for what?", "This analogy cannot be answered by those on the left. Their only hope is to call it a false equivalency, but it’s actually a very legitimate point. ", "At 10 your mom takes you to a new country is that your fault? At 18 you fall in love with someone and you don’t know anything else?What would you do when at 25 you have that first kid are you going to go back? Fuck no your not your going to do everything in your power to be with your family. It’s all that man knows right there is America not Mexico.", "In my platoon in Basic Training we had multiple illegal immigramts. After graduation they were given their citizenship. Each person had their family living in the US at the time they enlisted.", "30 years is more than enough time to register and become a legal American citizen.", "None of those apply because he arrived illegally.", "I'm sure if I had thirty years, I could think of something.\n\nHell, I'll even be generous and knock off the years he spent as a kid... 22 years is still long enough to get deported, serve out a visa suspension, come back and do it the right way, and get your citizenship. If this guy really cares about his family, he'll do all of that and wonder why he didn't do it sooner. ", "His fucking hair.", "Can't tell if you're serious or joking ", "How long would it take for this guy to come back?", "He's a hard working family man who was here illegally. What do you suppose the correct choice of action is? We can either break our laws and allow him to stay, setting precedence for others to illegally immigrate in the hopes they'll also get an exception, or deport him as per our laws as a deterrent to illegal immigration. Unless we would like to open the borders completely, I believe the latter is the correct choice of action.\n\nThat being said, I also think that we need to change the laws to make immigration easier, and expand on options to those already here. Anarchy is not the answer, reform is. And despite having to tear a family apart, it is what must be done to retain our laws.\n\nAs for the other part of your comment, I also despise how our country gives a free pass to Wall Street. There are hundreds of people who walked away scott free. I also would like reform and regulation of Wall Street and the likes.\n\nEdit: It seems a lot of you missed my second point. You're proposing policy changes - and while that's lovely - it doesn't matter if it doesn't get passed into law. Write your representatives if you feel strongly. Do it as often as you can and let others know they should as well. Contrary to popular belief, they do change the laws when there is a large enough public outcry. Be that outcry.", "Did the native Americans have laws prohibiting European immigrants?", "Sad, but what should happen according to the law, hope he can come back as a citizen.", "If dude has paid his taxes and never committed violent or other heinous crimes, there should be a system to let people like that stay. The problem isn't a lack of work available, (too many able body Americans sit on their ass to ever complain) the problem is that many illegals do not or cannot contribute to society (ie. Taxes, like most of us)", "Address the laws through your representatives, good luck. But the law is the law, just parents should not have our him in this position.", "This is ignorant. The man is probably married with a family and lived in America 30 years. Why is our government wasting so much money to get rid of people like this? Its far too extreme", "This response made me chuckle. The problems in Mexico and South America are not our problems. The United States has allowed almost any one to buy and sell weapons and ammunition and there is low crime. Mexico and most of South America have gun laws that prohibit the average citizen from possessing a firearm and they seem to be over run with drug cartels and violent crimes. They have exceptionally corrupt governments and oppress their people to the point of starvation. The only real way to change their countries is violent revolution. In short they allow long term corruption and misery by not following set examples and suffering through a relatively short civil war. That is what makes a shithole stay a shithole", ">So basically give up his entire life and pray. Although then people would argue that since he was here illegally he doesn't deserve to get back in so really it wouldn't have happened anyway.\n\nWho said anything about prayer? \n\nAlso what is this about giving up his entire life? Are you 16?\nAlso are you saying that people are unable to start over fresh if life throws them a curve ball? \n\nA few years ago a 90yr old bedridden man was deported back to Germany and stripped of his US citizenship because he had lied about his ties to Nazis on his citizenship form..\nThe arguments you are making now with emotional appeals fallacy are similar to what was made by his supporters, friends and US citizen kids. \n\nAnother example is Elian Gonzalez and the emotional appeals argument his relatives in the US made about how a 6yr old kid should not be sent back to his poor father living in Cuba. Guess under whose watch ICE with guns pointed, took Elian back to his dad?", "\"The law is the law\"\n\n-All the people I listed in my first comment", "My point was for him to be PROACTIVE instead. Nah, I don’t eat dicks. I’m an America watching the Lakers and Grizzlies and eating rotel, spicy Doritos and drinking punch. I’m feeling good man. ", "And he has had ample time to become an American citizen. Hasta la vista.", "Yup.", "> ICE should focus on criminals and I'm not talking about \"since they're here illegally they're criminals\" criminals.\n\nAgain, personally, I totally agree. In fact, was that not all the buzz during and just after the election, that they would be focusing on the illegals that are actively engaging in criminal activity? Not just the joe-shmo that works at 7-11? It's frustrating to see ICE go for low-hanging fruit.\n\n", "This user's post goes through the information that contradicts you:\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qmmht/on_mlk_day_ice_deports_jorge_garcia_a_married/dsqglgu/", "Dont forget all the pedophiles in hollywood not being locked away.", "Have you never met an illegal immigrant in your life? ", "Are you saying his native country is a shithole?", "Canada has very strict immigration laws. Most Americans would find it nearly impossible to immigrate to Canada.", "> why a large nation that wants to provide strong social benefits\nNorway? You can't be referring to america can you?\n\n> People that payed into the system get to benefit from the system.\n\nAre you referring to taxes? Payroll deductions?", ">You can’t apply for citizenship unless you leave the US.\n\nYeah if you enter without inspection. If you come in on a visa, there is a loophole that lets you.", "His parents didn't follow the law, and because of that he is punished. It's unfortunate but laws are laws. And in the end you can only blame his parents for going about the situation in the wrong way. ", "Fuck the 'law is the law' ideology, no being should be compelled to follow unjust laws. This man is being kicked out of the country to which 3/4ths of his natural born life was spent in, I don't care that it is illegal, I'm trying to convey that the laws should be changed.", "Apples and oranges. There is no comparison between sensible border controls and slavery. None.", "My exhusband is in the exact same situation. This statement is something I try to explain to others all the time.", "> Applied for amnesty in the 1980's\n\nWTF do you think amnesty was for?", "> Guess under whose watch ICE with guns pointed, took Elian back to his dad?\n\nWas it mine? Because if not that's not relevant.", "Serious question, would you be ok if they changed the law and let people apply for citizenship while staying in the US?", "Don't spread lies. ANYONE can apply for O-1 visa.", "You sound like a well-read person.", "> You can explore a provisional waiver (Form I-601A, Application for Provisional Unlawful Presence Waiver) if you are still in the U.S. Once approved, you can return to the U.S. after you pass the consular interview. This provisional waiver applies to a U.S. citizen's undocumented immigrant spouse and children\n> \n> It is meant to keep the family united. You must prove that the family will go through \"extreme and unusual hardships.''\n\nThis seems like a great case for that waiver.", "I have, and his specific situation disqualifies him from them. I have also met legal immigrants, such as my father. He received his citizenship when I was 8, 22 years after arriving to the US legally. Others got them sooner. \n\n>This requirement must be satisfied before the foreign national applies for adjustment of status. If an applicant has not been inspected and admitted or inspected and paroled before filing an adjustment application, the officer must deny the adjustment application.\n\n>As part of the inspection, the foreign national must:\n\n>Present any and all required documentation, including fingerprints, photographs, other biometric identifiers, documentation of status in the United States, and any other requested evidence to determine the foreign national’s identity and admissibility; and\n\n>Establish that he or she is not subject to removal under immigration laws, Executive Orders, or Presidential Proclamations.", "> What good does this do to anyone? What benefit is served here? I’m at a total loss to name any.\n\nIt preserves due process, one of the foundations of law. And a damn important one at that. ", "I can think of a few historical events since then such as the founding of a nation and the passing of immigration laws.", "and thats how Jorge got replaced with Juan", "God that pisses me off. I have no more right to be here than he does", "Yes violent revolutions from people who had no part in this corruption unlike the US government who has historically put these people into power and meddles in government affairs that have caused these countries to be stuck in this situation. You're right they're not out problem. We create those problems, leave, and then when people try to come here to get out we say nope sorry you go fix it. Again read what I posted. Our lax gun laws are responsible for the majority of the guns these cartels have access to. \n\nThe US does not have low crime compared to other countries on our own level. In the first world we're one of the most of not the most violent countries.", "Where the fuck is he supposed to go?? It’s just silly at this point", "You win false equivalence of the day my friend. ", "He was in the country for 20 as an adult. That is a long time to get things sorted out legally which he did not do.\n\nWhat I find most upsetting is nothing will happen to the landscape business that most likely employed him illegally. ", "How are the immigration laws unjust because the US don’t blindly accept potentially MILLIONS OF MILLIONS unknowns simply because their parents snuck them over here? Do you know the kinda shit storm that would cause in the us immigration policy if the us accepted the illegal children but not the illegal parents? ", "100% true, also 100% not how it should be. You shouldn't have to pay for the sins of your parents. How do we do better as a nation going forward?", ">Establish that he or she is not subject to removal under immigration laws, Executive Orders, or Presidential Proclamations.\n\nYou get that through employee sponsorship, or participating in govt programs that provide a path to citizenship. Sorry, but you're wrong.", "Word is illegal", "Lol bye now, dude had thirty years to get with the program and never attempted to legally apply for citizenship. Shame on you for sensationalism ", "If that's the case, they can still petition and be granted, but to have the petition adjudicated, the alien must make what's called a meaningful departure. We call it a \"flagpole.\" They basically leave the US, grab the flagpole, spin around, and come back in. It's an administrative necessity to satisfy the immigration law, but it's not a barrier to their success", "And you're right. The parents probably had damn good reason to come over here illegally, but you're right. We have laws, and we have them for a reason.\n\nBut, if these laws mean we have to deport someone who did not come here of their own free will, who has a family, career, and a clean record, someone who has assimilated into our culture and has been an asset to it, then maybe we need to look at those laws. I mean, we let Melania stay because she got married, so why not this guy?", "Only 30 years too late. ", "It demonstrates that we need to change the laws forcing them to do this?", "> or beheaded by the cartels, one of those.>\n\nAs a Mexican, let me tell you that cartels don't just pick up random guys from the street in order to behead them. And as a lawyer, yes, he could have gone back across the border and immigrate properly. \n\n", "And what is the purpose of the law? To create order? To protect citizens? Please tell me how following through on deporting this man does any good for society.", "Keep telling yourself that. Keep telling yourself meddling in other countries, fucking them all up, and then sending away their citizens trying to escape those horrors is completely 100% ethical. You Jose Smith have to fix the problems our government is responsible for in very large part. You see it's ethical to meddle in other countries government and then leave when you fuck it up the real bad guys are the poor people trying to escape that horror and making a better life for their family.", "Yeah. This dude has been here since he was 10, has no history of a criminal record, and has been on time with his taxes every year. We're missing some part of the story.\n\nSounds suspect as hell.", "Yes", "No offence but this might be the least thought out thought I've seen today. How are they illegal immigrants when America wasn't even a thing yet and the world was literally everyone killing each other and taking land? Columbus didn't immigrate he waged a cultural and literal war and came out the winner........ am I taking the bait right now?", "Didn't he attempt to leave the country and apply then?", "I say follow the law. If that’s the law then so be it. ", "Actually you will be paying for kicking him out as he will no longer pay taxes and you have to pay the deportation and immigration departments to process him. This is all a huge waste of money, time, and just a big headache for some stupid amount of pride.", "Who you are born to, important both positively and negatively, just the way the elite want it!", "it makes the adjustment of his status difficult or impossible to read?", "Indubitably your summation based on minuscule evidence must be accurate. Bitch I can use larger words I was just in the army and learned that large words waste fucking time...\n\n\nSo quit being a pompous douche ", "Can't apply for a green card if you're here illegally. By the time he was old enough to realize his situation, he likely already had a life here. What you're asking is to send a man to a country which is no longer home to him with no roots and no support in order to start a lengthy and expensive process with no guarantees he'll ever get to immigrate back anyway. This doesn't upset people for no reason.", "I’m on my phone now but if you read through the comments a few different people have posted the relevant info. I personally know of someone who has to deal with this. Been here since a child and now married with kids to a US citizen but have been told they basically no options without a waiver for hardship on the US citizen which is hard to get. Either way the person is still required to leave the country. ", "I'm sure you're well versed in American immigration law. ", "No, you see I was able to describe the situation in more than one word that takes into context historical context and so on. Unlike our stable genius President most of us can describe things in a way that isn't like an edgy 8th grader who just got into politics.", "Is there any other country on Earth that you can enter illegally, live for 30 years, get married and then have one political party bitch when the people in power actually decide to enforce the laws on the books? \n\nSeriously, why is the US the only country that has to deal with this shit? \n\nHow hard is it to have immigration laws and understand that the US can not take everyone in the world that wants to come here. Seriously, most every other country means tests immigrants, they're not just throwing open the doors for everyone. \n\nBut Americans won't do the jobs that illegals take! You mean Americans won't work for slave wages. The Democratic party supports slave labor, the entire California agriculture industry survives off it. Disgusting. Where's that living wage there? \n\n", "I have family in similar situations and always that's the cause", "When it gets to the point that an illegal immigrant is paying US taxes, can't we just admit in that moment that they are fully functional Americans?", "Explain how America’s very existence isn’t rooted in undocumented immigration. ", "\"Obviously\" says the guy who isn't familiar with the law enough.\n\nNone of those can be done when entering illegally, which is different from being here illegally.", ">> Guess under whose watch ICE with guns pointed, took Elian back to his dad?\n>\n>Was it mine? Because if not that's not relevant.\n\nDude please stay in school. ", "Another person who replied said that he is now barred for 10 years as part of his deportation. ", "Did he ever apply for citizenship or a permit to be here in the 30 years he was here?", "I’m fine with that. At least that job that he had can go to a legal American ", "To be illegal requires breaking an existing law. The colonists did not break any existing laws.", "Damn jerk stoleeee eeeer jeerbbss", "Both parties failed to address the very black and white laws that allowed this to happen. Both parties failed.", "How can you be for tougher deportation/immigration laws and then argue this event? From a human compassion standpoint yes, but I’m making your first statement you don’t leave a lot of room for that. There’s understanding the law and following that or making exceptions to it.", "I mean his genocide could be considered against the laws of God and Man.", "Call me a soft liberal, but I will never blame someone for trying to improve their families life by immigrating, legally or illegally. My parents came to the US thanks to a refugee asylum law passed by Jimmy Carter and extended by Ronald Reagan. It gave them and our family a better life. Yet, if they were to be stuck in a war torn country today instead of the early 80s, there would be no option to flee and be accepted with open arms by this country. That makes me sick. \n\nIf MLK Jr has taught us anything, an immoral law is no law to be followed. I won’t resort to blaming people trying to survive, but instead point to how those with the power to do good in the world have let so many people down. ", "Or, you know, make a path for illegals to become legal. I don't think that's complicated at all. What is the difference between kicking him out while he works towards immigration and letting him stay while he does he same?\n\nThe answer... he's Mexican so he must be a drug dealer. ", "We'll be sending them back to shitholes?", "In what way?", "Geez, if this guy ain’t more American than a lot of people I know. He’s raised a family here and I’m sure has worked and paid taxes. He should stay. \n\nWhen he gets to whatever county he goes he’ll feel like am immigrant.", "No ones forcing them to do shit. They’re flexing. ", "If he left he would have been banned from getting back for 10 years. If you have a family, would you leave them for another country for 10 years in the hope that you'll win the lottery and be able to come back?", "I seriously doubt our only two options on the matter are order or chaos.", "I want the Republicans to stare into his children's eyes and tell them their Father doesn't deserve to be here.\n\nEdit: The T_D spawn is here, everyone hide underage daughters!", "I know illegal immigrants who have gotten citizenship from A-E, but ok, keep telling them it's impossible! ", "Not necessarily true. I work very closely with undocumented immigrants in my job. Lately, family members of theirs have been deported for being here illegally with no arrests, warrants, DUIs, etc. It does happen.", "No, you see I was able to describe the situation in more than one word that takes into context historical context and so on. Unlike our stable genius President most of us can describe things in a way that isn't like an edgy 8th grader who just got into politics.", "Zero sympathy ", "feelings", "We don't owe them shit. Come here illegally, get shipped back home. Not a hard concept. ", "Well enough to know he would need to leave the US and apply for permanent residence to become legal. 30 years is still enough time to do that", "If you manage to do it for 30 years, fuck your neighbors, that's your closet now", "I'm going to have to take your word that I-130 over-rides the need to be inspected/admitted to the country as most other forms require. ", "Read the instructions - You may not file an I-130 for a spouse who is \"subject of an exclusion, deportation, removal, or\nrescission proceeding regarding his or her right to be admitted into or to remain in the United States\" - an exception to that exception applies if the spouse has lived outside the US for 2 years after the marriage. ", "Paying taxes doesn’t make you a “fully functioning American” ", "Because like him, and so many others, he doesn't pay any taxes, and he's part of the reason our healthcare system is busted. He had 22yrs to get citizenship. If you want to place blame, start with his parents", "[Not really, unless he's a wunderkind.](http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/sponsoring-illegal-employee-won-article-1.1889236)\n\n[But if you consider a 10 year gap, while being forced to live in a country that you don't really know, an \"acceptable path\" to citizenship, then maybe.](https://citizenpath.com/paths-to-legal-status-undocumented/)", "If they had, would you then support the proposal?", "No please tell me. How does the name of the president during the Elian situation affect how I feel about this or the very facts of this man's case? Now if you're trying to claim I supported what happened to Elian that would be a different argument, And I would love to see your source for my thoughts back then, but the sitting president at that time is irrelevant.", "0 logic in that statement.", "He was a child ~~and a teenager~~ in the 80s\n\n\n\nEdit: he was 8 in 1986 when Reagan passed amnesty, definitely only a child, not even a teen", "With enough $$$ it sure is possible, but the people who entered illegally are not usually the same people with $80k to push the paperwork through.", "What exactly is dehumanizing about following the law?", "Don’t marry and have kids with an illegal alien.", "Perfect oppurtunity for people to start a gofundme. I would donate.", "Oh god, you're right some people need to choke on a cock...", "Amnesty was passed in 1986", "How long does one need to figure things out though? If you can't find an immigration lawyer that can help you out and get your status changed in 30 years, in this case is system really the problem?", "I don't know, maybe because Dr King fought against injustice, and this seems to many Americans like an injustice? Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm just throwing that difficult to understand concept out there. ", "Both parties failed because of one party. ", ">Garcia's case is the latest example of immigrants who previously would have been allowed to remain in the U.S., but not now as the U.S. seeks to remove more immigrants. Garcia has no criminal record and pays taxes. He is barred from entering the US for at least 10 years.\n\n[Article](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2018/01/15/jorge-garcia-daca-deported-mexico-immigration/1033296001/)", "Except that's not what the law is currently. As in, that's not an option. I fully support the change of the law to allow this, but we have to change the law before that becomes an option.", "maybe there should be a statute of limitations on this crime. entering the US (OR ANY COUNTRY ON THE PLANET) is a crime, as it should be. but maybe after 10 years we can just let it go. i mean i wouldn't want that for rape or murder but this is different. ", ">Well, the kindness towards others can only go so far before your cupboards are bare.\n\nMeaning, illegal immigrants cost the country more than they contribute?", "He was here illegally. Even by Obama standards. It’s his fault not ours.", "We don't have room or infrastructure for 7 Billion people in this country. We can't take everyone just because they \"really want to be here\". If we did, it wouldn't be long before the strain of all those good, well-meaning people turned the US into what they are fleeing.", "Let him stay, give him citizenship. If there are others in the same situation, also give them citizenship. If others come here illegally looking for citizenship the same way, give them citizenship, too. Let anyone who wants to come here and become a citizen. What good is being a free country if it's limited to the scant few who were fortunate enough to be born here or rich enough to apply?", "Don't hit the wall on the way out. ", "If on a student or work VISA (even if expired), it should very much be possible to apply for permanent residence from what I recall. \n\nThough the rules may have changed in the decade or so since I went through the system", "How many blacks killed each other in senseless Street violence in Chicago today?", "You probably aren't what you claim to be then as the process would actually also require a [form I-485] (https://www.uscis.gov/i-485), and in this case as either a visa overstay or as someone who entered without inspection he would need to be grated a special waiver (which can't be granted without proof of extreme hardship to the spouse) under [form I-601] (https://www.uscis.gov/i-601) or [form I-601A] (https://www.uscis.gov/i-601a) respectively. Additionally such waivers are purely discretionary, expensive, and would require an attorney to complete at the very least the waiver portion of the application for the applicant to have a chance at getting it done correctly and effectively. ", "Tuuck er derr", "You realize almost every other developed country has strict immigration laws right? In Canada you probably need a sponsor to even be considered for citizenship. Even then it can take years and years to become a citizen. Same with European countries. Sure it sucks, but we’re not the only country, in fact our laws are lenient. ", "Its an inconvenience but this hardly needs everyone's outrage. He just has to go back to his country and come back with a family visa or something.", "The correct course of action is to exercise some discretion and go after one of those violent freeloading immigrants people seem convinced that are everywhere. The man's already been here for 30 years and he's had a family and been working. They have obviously already been exercising that discretion for quite some time. But no, let's breakup a family instead to send a contributing member of society to a place that isn't home to him anymore.\n\nPeople like you who are adamant about following the rules of law to the letter seem to forget that the system is made up of people and each one has a certain amount of discretion in how they play their role. Not to mention the fact that there are so many laws on the books that Congress can't tell you exactly how many there are. Just like we don't throw the book at every person who gets arrested for any crime and we don't arrest people for wearing the American flag as apparel, this particular man didn't need to be deported and doing so served no purpose.", "Being that he was here illegally for more than 1 year isn't he subject to the 10 year ban though?\n\nDude sounds pretty fucked.", "Look at the parent comment. My post was a response to the notion that this country used to be a utopia for immigrants. \n\nThat would be why. ", "Now you're just straight up lying.", "he's been here for 30+ years, and the 10 year gap is the issue?", "Garcia's case is the latest example of immigrants who previously would have been allowed to remain in the U.S., but not now as the U.S. seeks to remove more immigrants. Garcia has no criminal record and pays taxes. He is barred from entering the US for at least 10 years.\n\n[Article](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2018/01/15/jorge-garcia-daca-deported-mexico-immigration/1033296001/)", "how would he get benefits without an SS card? I'm not picking a fight, I'm curious. I hear this all the time just can't imagine they give out food stamps to anyone without paperwork- its paperwork hell to be on food stamps\n", "JI’m so glad you chose a visa with which I am extremely familiar. The O-1 visa is for anyone can apply. \n\nBut the 0-1 visa is for foreigners of extraordinary abilities. I try to use it when hiring foreigners with deep knowledge of foreign tax laws. Usually PhD’s or the equivalent who more often than not are recognized worldwide as authorities. We manage to secure this visa about 20% of the time we apply. \n\nSo if this gentleman was an expert in one of the fields where it is next to impossible to find qualified US citizens, he would still have one hell of a log shot. ", "Sometimes you don't enforce laws for the greater good.\n\nLike how a president can pardon someone who did something illegal.", "That will show them! /s", "Yeah, but Obama was on track to rectify this!\nThis is a Republican Hot Button issue that got Trump elected and look where we are NOW!\nSeriously!\nFor the first time in my 60 years; I am Embarrassed to be an American!", "Student Visa sure but Tourist not likely unless you make a lot of life changes and stop being a tourist.", "bc she came legally? does everything you type have to have something to do with trump? you're obsessed. i think we should lower the statute of limitations for deprtation. maybe something like 10 years you've been here with no convictions, ok you are allowed citizen status. ", "There's a good explanation above. \n\n>In general, you are not allowed to apply for LPR (legal permanent resident) status while in the country illegally. There are probably a hundred factors they didn't mention here. Either way, once outside the country he can probably apply to come back. Also since he isn't in chains and is being allowed this goodbye probably means it was a voluntary departure and he isn't barred for 10-20 years like some people are.", "How do you know he pays no taxes?\n\nYou’re aware that if you’re already here illegally that you can’t get a green card, right?", "And when were you in basic training? ", "He was already employed in the United States, and it's practically the only country he's ever known. His presence was already factored in to the state of America today. He was not in a queue and given \"priority status\". You really think that America is greater for having deported someone who is an American in every sense but legal?", "And this is why you're going down on that list. Describing people who know horrors your coddled ass would never even being to comprehend like defective packages. I get it the US is untouchable to you, we can fuck up whatever countries we want with constant and usually illegal meddling and then we don't owe the citizens trying to escape our mess anything. That's not how people view things anymore champ, that way of thinking is fading away. People are starting to hold the US responsible for what it has done and trying to help the innocent civilians we left there. You don't get to mess up people homes then treat them like dirt when they try to leave and make a better life. How hard of a concept is that.", "Form I-130 isn't an application to adjust status. It is just the form you have to have filed before any attempt to adjust status through a from I-485 if you are adjusting through marriage.", "It wasn't his fault. Brought here when he was ten by his parents.\n\nI definitely agree on hitting wall street. Those fuckers are getting away with robbery on a national level.", "Canada is even more difficult to get into than the US", "The laws don't sleep on holidays.\n\n", "It says he's been here for 30 years. He would've been here as a 10 year old boy in 1988 with parents who probably didn't speak English let alone have any understanding of the American government.", "10 years. That sucks. ", "He would have had to go back for 10 years before applying, unless he married her at 19 years old.", "Hindsight is 20/20. Getting serious about enforcing these laws is one thing, but for anyone who supports tougher immigration policies, all I ask is for some room for compassion in the way the laws are enforced. Laws are not perfect and can never account for 100% of cases. I'm hoping the 10 year ban can be lifted in his case, at the very least for his kids' sakes. (They are US citizens after all.)", "You are correct. Anyone can marry here. ", "Well I mean if he is undocumented, he really isn't paying the taxes a normal citizen would, yet he would have used public infrastructure. You know country's can't sustain themselves without tax dollars, if we let in 100m immigrants, ok now you don't get any emergency services, roads, etc until they pay their way into the system", "Well to be fair, have you seen what happens when dems go after the “correct” solution? Dems didn’t want Obamacare, they wanted something much better. But there is this other party that hates for someone other than themselves or their wealthy cronies to get something...", "I live in Mexico and trust me, I wouldn't leave this for Detroit. It's pretty ignorant to think that the shittiest place in the US is better than any part of Mexico, so with that being said, fuck you!", "You and /u/Ralcor both, jesus christ. The problem isn't what the country is. The problem is with asking why we allow people from such a country to become Americans, and with acting as though your country of origin makes you more or less worthy of becoming an American.", "Yes in 30 years he didn't LEAVE THE COUNTRY to try and get legal residency.\n\nI would like to see you leave the country for however long the process would take (years) just to be able to get legal residency for somewhere you already live.\n\nI hate when people act like it's just a stroll down the street, it isn't.", "> She's been married 4 times and has had legal jobs and paid rent to places.\n\nHow does one have an SSN if one is in the county illegaly?\n", "What an intensely loaded question, I believe you should reread what I said. The law is not intrinsically dehumanizing, it is the application in a case-by-case basis that can be dehumanizing. Most notably, racial profiling enacted by an officer of the law can very much be dehumanizing.\n\nIn this particular case, to send him back to his home country at this stage, when he has lived more in the USA that in Mexico, it is dehumanizing to ignore his life up till this point. Furthermore, saying 'the law is the law' and taking a father away from his children for at least a decade, this is barbaric, and it makes me thoroughly disgusted with our legal system.", "This made me cry ;(", "100% narrative. ", "if you dont pay taxes, then you are committing a crime. pretty simple to understand. ", "Any company could claim that X employee is essential to their operations. All they have to do to \"prove\" it is make reasonable efforts to hire a US citizen to replace them, and if they cannot they are eligible for citizenship. ", "So in 30 years he decided to not become a citizen. Bye, Felicia!", "What the fuck are you talking about? You think he made the choice as a 10 year old? ", ">What good does this do to anyone? What benefit is served here? I’m at a total loss to name any.\n\nIt makes it clear to the parents that bringing your kids into the country illegally is a bad idea, because they will be found and deported.", "It's extremely likely he had an SSID and other documentation having been here, working and such for as long as he had been though, right? So basically unless someone in his life somehow knew to get him back across the border before he needed his first work permit as a teenager, to get him an actual work visa he could come and overstay and live the rest of his life the exact same, he was fucked.", "Injustice = his family broke the law and we didn't give them a free pass? ", "Is she white? It's really easy to point to someone of a different color and say \"foreigner\". Sad times we live in, y'all.", "Your pontification in no way addresses the question asked. It is simple misdirection tactics. Cut the bullshit if you want to participate in the discussion.", "There's a couple I know of personally:\n\n1) If you're undocumented and apply, you will be deported but if you stay undocumented and don't end up on ICE's or any other agency's radar, your odds of remaining in country will be better.\n\n2) Some people come here when they are so young they don't even learn that they are undocumented till they start trying to apply for college. It's hard to apply for student loans when you're SSN or your parents isn't legit.\n\nThere are probably more reasons, but everyone's story is unique. \n\nAnd I should add, I use the term \"undocumented\" because the term \"illegal\" implies that these folks have broken criminal laws. They haven't. They broke civil laws, which is why they are NOT afforded attorneys in civil court when it comes to their legal status in the country. Even if they did commit a crime while here, public defenders are not expected (or usually even trained) to help a defendant with citizenship issues.", "But not anyone or even almost anyone will get it", "Then we should start taking responsibility for our actions. I'm not saying we need to accept every immigrant but we need to help those who are actually victims and who can help our country and economy like this man.", "Sounds like he needs to take it up with his parents.", "Shhhhhh that's racist to call them what they are. ", "it shows that entering the country legally is important, and if you don't you will be deported. i think its important for people to know that. there can always be exceptions and this guy seems like a good candidate to get a pass. there have to be consequences to breaking the law. ", "So ? 30+ years! ", "Well considering they used sources to the .gov website and you use none, I will take their word over yours.", "Some of the comments here are disgusting. Y'all have no more right to be here than this man does. ", "So, he had 30 years to apply for citizenship and he never did?", "Yes what assholes for not wanting to uproot their life and move to a country they have no connection to. What awful kids American so great!", "This was not the presidents order. This would have happened under any president because that is what ICE does, its their job. Its horrible to think about but this is not Trumps doing.", "Also his skin is brown, which is a plus for trump supporters.\n\nThey love getting the non-whites out. ", "You should try not using irrelevant whataboutism to make a point. Who was in charge during the Elian Gonzales fiasco is entirely irrelevant to the conversation. \n\nThe rest of your point is ridiculous. Just up and moving to a new country temporarily costs a bunch of money, never mind that he can't just move to Canada or wherever he wants. There are about a million things that could and probably would go wrong. Where does he work? Who pays the bills at the original house? Or does the family move to? Also, if they move, can the American wife and kids even move too?\n\nFor every \"oh they should have just done this\" there are about a thousand reasons why they couldn't. Try thinking about that instead of assuming something you likely never will have to deal with is easy or simple in any way.", "What rubbish. This is nothing to do with any of the things you mention. It's enforcing laws that have been on the books for decades. But don't let that stand in the way of pushing your narrative and reaping the sweet karma.", "Sometimes laws are stupid and should be disregarded. Like the law that's destroying his family right now.\n\nEdit: The law should be changed to allow people like him to apply for citizenship under DACA. He couldn't have done that under current laws. He was 10 when he came here. Give him a fucking break. He's clearly hurting no one by being here. All of you can fuck off.", "Speaking as a legal immigrant, the US' immigration laws are completely fucked. I have nothing but sympathy for the man, and the US absolutely has a moral obligation here to acknowledge reality. Don't try to act like you're sticking up for legal immigrants by supporting the deportation if a man who's been here for 30 years. You don't speak for us.", "Our spouse visa took 17 months and a few thousand dollars. This was a few years ago.\n\nBut since this guy was deported, he'll probably have harsh restrictions on when he can apply again. Up to 10 years\n\nEdit: It definitely disproportionally affects poor people. You have to jump through ridiculous hoops such as application fee payments having to originate from US banks. So if you don't already know someone with a US bank account willing to pay your 300-400$ application fees (and there's like 7 of them over the course of years), you're out of luck. \n\nEdit 2: Sometimes laws are unjust. That's why they change them every now and then. ", "Why is it good?", "There are laws against the shit that Joe Arpaio did, but that didn't stop the president from pardoning him. There are laws against deathly ill people smoking pot for pain relief, but sometimes it's better to not enforce those laws because it's a fucked up thing to do.", "Law, or sense? Seems like the law is too commonly used to not think on a matter.", "America has lost its soul.\n\n30 years, there has to be a better way to deal with a case like this.", "Why is it good?", "Obviously. How is that confusing?", "I mean he was brought here by his parents. Shit's just unfair, regardless of what the law says. The law also used to say that Blacks and Whites couldnt marry, doesnt mean that it was right or that it should be obeyed", "Disgusting, thanks Trump voters ", "But you need to be outside of the country or here legally to apply for those things. You can only establish that you’re not subject to removal if you’re here legally. ", "Yep, I would love to become an American citizen, and ya, if all I had to do to get it was come illegally and stay under the radar for a while, I would've done that ten years ago for sure. And so would literally hundreds of millions if not billions of others. Can't set that kind of precedence. Even what Obama and other presidents have done to allow illegals to stay has been enough to temp many more ppl to try their luck that way. ", "I am inclined to agree. A family has been torn apart.", "Lmao your name is fitting. But shhh 🤫 you cant disturb the hive mind of reddit. ", "Am I a native American or a European settler in this scenario?", "Oh man. Our country feels safer already. I wonder how many women he’s raped and drugs he’s peddled in those 30 years. /s\n\nSerious though, this is fucking bullshit. That family is going to be destroyed due to something he had no control over when he was 10. ", "Good job ICE", "I’m not saying that a country shouldn’t have laws regarding immigration— it should, but just like all other laws, prosecution (or in this case deportation) needs to be used judiciously. This is a terrible case for enforcement. \n\nOn some level, i just don’t fundamentally buy that a person who walks across a desert, or rafts over on a boat, or even flies on a commercial jet—leaving their whole family behind— is going to be deterred by the story of one man who was deported thirty years after the fact. I just don’t think it will change anything. \n\nBut for that man? It changes everything. \n\nI agree that we need smarter immigration laws. I disagree that we need tougher enforcement of the current law. ", "If you don't get it, you don't deserve it. Nobody is barred from cultivating a skill that is uniquely marketable, even though not everybody can. ", "Fuck off, everytime my party tries to do anything the republicans commit to fucking over minorities. Both parties are not equal, conservatives don't get to hide behind that. My party isn't the party of Donald Trump. ", "They all have to go back!", "He's been here 30 years so 2018-30=1988. He was 10 when he was brought here in 1988. So it passed when he was an 8 year old living outside the country", "You must be 100 percent Native American ", "Not on a tourist visa. The government perceives coming in on a tourist visa and applying for citizenship to be a form of lying to them. If you do this and get caught they can ban you from entering for a period of time. ", "It's very easy to get ID. Unless you can show me otherwise I am not buying this at all", "What obligation does Mexico, his home country, have in all this?", "He was brought here as a 10 year old, I'm betting he had no choice in the matter. And that's no reason to break up his family. ", "Sounds like they should have took the legal immigration way. Lata", "If my parents sneak me into a movie and get caught, do I get to stay?\n\nI feel sorry for him, but his parents broke the law and we have laws for a reason.\n\n", "This was not on Trumps order. This is the ICE's job, no matter who the president is Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton this still woudl have happened. You can hate Trump but dont blame him for things that were not his direct fault.", "Peace out, girl scout! ", "Bye", "A student visa is a non-immigrant visa so, no, you cannot apply for permanent residency. You need to adjust your status first to an immigrant visa.", "I hope he is able to not let this completely disrupt his life and that somehow he and his family can be reunited. Its terrible that Trump is tearing apart families.", "I'm not saying order and chaos are our options. I'm saying the choices in this situation are follow the law or don't - both of which have consequences. I also don't mean to say that either choice is absolutely correct - and why I asked what you suppose the correct choice is. I gave my answer and I'm interested to hear other peoples thoughts.", "It got a bit sketchy in California for a while, my friend adjusted on an expired visa (married while legal though) and she had some trouble that required a lawyer. She made it through in the end, but AFAIK it's still a bit risky to adjust on an expired visa.", "That man had 30 years to get his shit together.", "I had to replce a lot of documents after a flood. Some are easy. Some are very difficult to replicate. \n\n2 1/2 years later, my husband still doesn’t have his service records and can’t go to the VA if he needed to. Fortunately, he hasn’t needed to. ", "Not enforcing laws is far from setting legal precedence that nullifies the laws being ignored. Look at Colorado and other marijuana states being overlooked by the Federal govt (for now) but that doesn't mean that marijuana is suddenly legal to the Federal govt.", "So what options did he have before it was discovered that he was here illegally? Like he wanted to be legal, what could he have done?", "I think we call those kinda countries \"shitholes\"", "Well when one party is so spitefully obstructionist that the other party can't do anything...\n\nCut the false equivalence bullshit. Our system is shit, but within it, the Republicans are the worse of the two.", "Illegal immigrant is not a race", "Send him away illegal for life so I don’t think twice 🤷🏼‍♂️", "No, that's not true. Your employer pays fines and sponsors you as an essential employee. Most employers don't want to pay the fines, so they continue to hire illegally. ", "I may know someone terrified and in this position right now, all I'll say is he's from europe and fell in love with someone and is staying in the US illegally, working online. He's not married to the woman he's staying with though. \n\nAnd no this isn't SWIM. Natural born 'murica here", "This needs to be higher up. ", "Do you believe that a poor parent in Guatemala right now will be deterred from coming to the US because this man is being deported? That they're thinking far enough ahead that this will actually factor into their decision on whether or not to try to illegally enter the US?\n\nI'm not saying the guy has to stay or anything, but the idea that deporting him will have a deterrent effect on future immigrants seems laughable to me.", "Thats the law folks...time to move on.", "How it should be, cheaters don't get rewarded. There a people they would be cutting in front of who have waited a long time and deserve to get in legally.", "Fuck Trump and anyone who carries water for him. ", "Too bad. After 30 years he should have found a way to become legal. No one's fault but his own.", "What a disgusting comparison. You should be ashamed of yourself for using the above tragedies for cheap political points. ", "Where is the warmest place one can live in Canada? ", "I had an overstayed tourist visa (I was a kid) and at adult age (15 years later) I got my green card through marriage. ", "I mean the gesture is nice but no we don't, unfortunately. Our government isn't even doing a good job taking care of our own most vulnerable residents. ", ">But, if these laws mean we have to deport someone who did not come here of their own free will\n\nI feel for kids in this situation, but this guy is 39. He could've gone back to Mexico when he became an adult and chose not to for over two decades.", "I believe you're correct. If you're here illegally but entered legally (by overstaying a visa not by hopping the fence) it's a different set of rules. \n\nThe big caveat, and the article I linked touches on this, is entering on a temporary visa with the intent of marrying and staying in the US is visa fraud and a serious crime. ", "That’s not answering the question. The question was would you be in favor of changing the law", "If you are harming yourself while trying to help others you are not making the right choice.", "My grandmother in-law got her green card while on an expired visa, this was last year.", "I'm an immigration lawyer in Mexico for a tech company that moves people all around the globe. I also have relatives who immigrated from Mexico to the US, some legally, some illegally, but we're able to obtain permanent residency or even citizenship one way or the other, either though marriage, amnesty or what not, so I have no sympathy for this guy. When it comes to immigration, there is always a way to have the proper status if only you're proactive and willing to do make a few sacrifices. This guy didn't, so IMo he got what was coming to him", "He never followed the law in the first place, and never went through with becoming legal. ", "Coming from a family of immigrants, this man is incredibly irresponsible. No one should feel sorry for him. He did this himself.", "30 years and he never became a citizen? \n\nSee ya", "Or we can make a stop gap that will allow this to get delayed while we try to fix the problem in Washington. And no, a fucking wall between Mexico and the US is not a solution. \n\nThe problem is that the GOP doesn't give a shit about the people affected by this. They want to use it as a way to grand stand and try to get this ludicrous wall built. ", "Let me know when you get a serious response. ", "Umm kicking someone out of Disney IS very different than deporting someone to a country they haven’t been to since they were a child. You can’t just say that false equivalence is the only argument when it is the correct argument. It’s a childish argument, loaded with fallacies. ", "Do the math. He came to the US around 1987.\n\nIf his parents had immigrated earlier or waited a few years to immigrate, he would have a lot more options than he did. ", "10/10 trolling here. ", "My husband's 70 and he says the same thing. He used to say that that traitor Nixon was the worst person to run the states...not anymore.", "There’s no way for him to do that. Once you’re here illegally, you can’t apply for a change of status until you’ve been deported. You also get banned for 10 years (which he seems to be, but there are some ways around that, so we’ll see if he’s actually made to serve that.)", "\nGod, what sort of country applies its law equally, and not based on how big a sob story a person has?", "You do realize, don't you, that many people who are here illegally actually DO pay taxes? They'll give a fake SS number to their job, which takes taxes out of their paycheck; but on April 15 they can't file a tax return to get any tax refund. Additionally, they can't receive SS benefits and pay into that. They can't get a ton of other government assistance that is paid for by taxes they pay. ", "According to the article, he did pay taxes, and blaming the parents in no way validates punishing him. Either he shares at least some small part of the blame,and he lives with the consequences of what blame he has, or he is completely blameless, and deserves no such consequence for the sins of his history. Not both", "Happy MLK day. Will be thrilled for this guy when he gets to become an official American citizen!", "Thats if the poor guy comes back alive. If he is going to mexico you can either expect death because of the drug war or death for being seen as a tourist.", "That’s not how it works", "There isn't really any paperwork for this. By entering illegally, you broke immigration law. That isn't just forgotten by applying for a visa, if anything, it's discovered by applying and could lead to deportation.", "Thank you irresponsible immigrants. He should have gotten his paperwork taken care of 25 years ago.", " > ...and he had 30 years. His parents fucked him over not the US Govt\n\nWhich would have required him to move out of the country, leaving friends and family behind to try and get citizenship which isn't a guarantee and takes years.\n\nI would love to see how you would react if someone told you to just leave, you can come back in a couple of years, peace.", "You're right, it is unfair. It's unfair that his parents put him in this situation. ", "So you have no problem telling the people who have been waiting to legally immigrate here that they will have to wait because the cheaters should get first dibs on immigration?", "What would an immigration lawyer have told him? He was here illegally, and we have no path to become legal for people in his situation. His options were literally to leave the country or stay and hope he didn't get caught. Finding an immigration lawyer and getting his status changed wasn't an option.", "So every case of injustice has a connection to MLK? Fucking lol", "Durr I thinks ilagal peoples is bad", "To all the people defending him and saying our immigration laws are the problem: What should our immigration laws be?", "But most immigrant parents are ignorant of the law as it relates to their children. Barely speak English and expect them to understand their youngin will be screwed over this badly, I doubt that gets transmitted correctly. OR they can leave their 10 year old behind when they’re fleeing a third world, or crime, or war, or who knows what. It’s a shame immigration is such a hot button when the reality is there are no borders of humanity. ", "You damn soft liberal! /s ", "As a fellow brown person I’m glad he’s out. ", "What was he supposed to do? On his 18th birthday go turn himself in for being illegal? If you live in America and contribute to society through work then you should be given to chance to become a legal resident without having to be deported. ", "So that's a no from you, gotcha.", "> bc she came legally?\n\n[citation needed]", "Adios amigo.", ">Dems didn’t want Obamacare, they wanted something much better.\n\nNo, just Bernie Sanders wanted health care for all. Democrats wanted to line the pockets of HMOs and Big Pharma; their buddies and benefactors.\n\nE: Elizabeth Warren wasn't Senator yet", "Who said he wasn't paying taxes?", "Facts don’t matter to these people. It doesn’t help their agenda. ", "What prompted the deportation? Something must have happened for him to be on the radar.", "Man, you’re splitting hairs. My final answer is to just: FOLLOW THE LAW. SIMPLE. You are complicating the issue by adding your feelings into the mix. ", "This is fucking outrageous. ", ">be accepted with open arms by this country\n\nOnly if you're from Norway, according to the Cheetoh in Charge.", "> For a while, 35% more Americans favored \"Affordable Care Act\" than favored \"Obamacare\" despite them being different names for the same thing.\n\nThat's actually hilarious. It does go to show how uninformed the average American is and how easy it is to just blindly agree with an ideology based on how it is presented to you. ", "Ya I do and so do my parents, at least they took care of their citizenship as soon as they could.", "so when he leaves, will he be able to reapply since he's married and has kids? ", "Yes the system is exactly the problem. That's why an immigration lawyer wouldn't help. The problem is with the law itself. ", "And the reason he shouldn’t be allowed to do this while staying in Detroit is?", "You’re definitely on to something. As messed up as this sounds, the law is the law. ", "Well maybe he'll serve as a warning to other people who want to bring their kids here illegally. Yes it's a sucky situation for him, but how many times do we need to look the other way at our own laws?", "You can't apply for one if you are here illegally and have no green card, etc. ", "> \"Pro Life\" vs \"Pro Choice\" (nice how both sides are Pro, isn't it?)\n\nIndeed - a more accurate way to phrase \"Pro Life\" is \"Anti Woman\"\n\ne: be mad, conservatives. The fact is, you hate that women get to have any control at all over their own bodies. You're all would-be rapists; the only thing holding you back is the threat of legal repercussions.", "Disregard laws, face the consequences. Just because your don't like it, doesn't mean you get to be free from the consequences.", "Laws can never account for 100% of possible cases, and are more often than not selectively enforced. This is a case that I would argue goes against the spirit of the law, despite being enforced down to the letter. We are harming the lives of 3 US citizens (his wife and children) because he was placed in a situation when he was 10 that he had no control over. And in my reading it seems like he had no real path to citizenship given his origins and age. (Despite his marriage, he was never on a visa to begin with and as such could not apply to any existing path without voluntarily leaving the country -- and his family -- for who knows how long).", "Only if you’re poor. ", "By and large, absofuckinglutely. ", "> has been on time with his taxes every year.\n\nHow is he paying income tax with no SSN? ", "Easy, go get them for me. ", "If you're an authoritarian bootlicker those are always the only two choices.", "He did get married, dumbass. Seems like your the one who doesn’t get the law", "It sucks but he had 30 years to make his status known and/or leave and then try to apply. Now you are right, he will probably suffer some penalty and while this breaks my heart he should have worked towards citizenship properly instead of hiding.", "Do you not understand what \"minority\" means?\n\nEDIT: Christ, are people that confused about how \"minorities\" doesn't necessarily refer to race, or is this just another TD hangout?", "Adios", ">but 30 years!!!\n\nAs if the fact that he has been getting away with it for so long makes him less illegal. ", "Up until now.................\nNixon was the worst example!\nNow we have Trump?\nGod, (or whoever) HELP Us!", "He can apply for permanent residence citing his marriage and kids, now that he is residing outside of the country. It basically just forces him into three options:\n- Live in a country that most likely now feels foreign to him without his family\n- Attempt to enter the country illegally\n- Put in the stupid amount of time it takes to legally immigrate to the US, which is a long, and therefore expensive process.\n\nIs it possible to come back? Yeah. Is it hard? Sure can be. I’m sure he will have full support of his family.\n\nI’m just trying to show the point that folks on reddit seem to overlook — it’s possible to come back, this time legally.\n\nDo I support this approach? No. But I have also immigrated with papers and know it’s possible, if you are stubborn enough.\n\nEdit: rather than replying to everyone posting the same thing:\n\nThe bar may sound scary, but it CAN be overturned in court, because his wife and children, who are US citizens, have a lot to lose from a life without a husband and father. This does involve lawyers and courts, but it is possible.\n\nNot a single person who lives in the states illegally does so without understanding the dangers of it. It’s possible.", "Perhaps he should sue the government for the 30 years of taxes he paid.", "As much as it sucks you gotta play the game by the rules in place. I literally just got back from dropping off my Girlfriend at the airport shes on her way back to Colombia. She wants to live here and she’s applying for citizenship and comes and goes as the visas say. We’ve been dating for 4 months so marriage is a little early for that option to me. But again it sucks but you gotta play the game", "> It seemed, in my mind at least, that there would be some track for someone who already lived here with roots.\n\nIt would take both parties to make this happen, and every time a Republican starts to talk about a path to citizenship they get voted out of office by racists.", "> Didn't he attempt to leave the country and apply then?\n\nThat's so easy to do, just up and leave your job, friends, family to move out of country with no job in the hopes of returning at some point years down the road.", "I think kids like him should be excused but adults who enter illegally, well....that's illegal.", "Yea it is", "The even sadder thing is that there are still some people that believe his U.S. born children should be 'deported' as well because they were born to an illegal immigrant. ", "In order to become a citizen he would have had to leave the US and stay gone for 10 years before applying and hoping he won the lottery to get back in. It also costs thousands and thousands of dollars in legal fees. Additionally, he didn't make the decision that put him in this situation. He was brought here at 10. ", "Illegal immigrant means he is already a criminal guilty of breaking our immigration laws ", "My friend was adopted from Central America when he was like 5 y/o and was just deported after 30 years, because of something with the adoption papers... Blah blah blah", "Unfortunately one cannot apply for citizenship if they are here illegally. So he was in the position of coming here as a child and then growing up here, knowing only the US but not being able to fix his citizenship. Then like any human he starts a family. Now he is being deported. The party of family values is ripping apart a family. ", "Just a blanket FYI for some helpful people in the comments - you don't just 'apply' for citizenship smh.", "That's not at all how it works, to apply for citizenship you need to live outside the us or have a green card, which is has neither. \n\nIn order for him to have applied he would have to leave the US and then apply, which would take many years to even get through.", "Many people in this country illegally have no path to citizenship. I know someone in this same situation. They have spent thousands of dollars on attorneys and were finally told she has no path to citizenship. She has been married to an American for over 10 years and has a child. ", "Dat false equivocation ", "Illegals can and often do pay taxes. There is actually a section in your tax return that is specifically for that option. Automatically assuming they didn't pay taxes is a fallacy that shows ignorance of the tax code\n", "The idea that MLK supported a right wing agenda is insane. He was a socialist. He described the three evils of America as racism, poverty, and militarism. \n\nHe said he wanted his eulogy to note:\n\n>I'd like somebody to mention that day, that Martin Luther King, Jr., tried to give his life serving others. I'd like for somebody to say that day, that Martin Luther King, Jr., tried to love somebody. I want you to say that day, that I tried to be right on the war question. I want you to be able to say that day that I did try to feed the hungry. I want you to be able to say that day that I did try in my life to clothe those who were naked. I want you to say, on that day, that I did try, in my life, to visit those who were in prison. I want you to say that I tried to love and serve humanity.\n\nHe didn't ever say \"I want you to say that I supported tough immigration laws, I want you to say I supported breaking up loved ones and inflicting the sins of the father on the child\" ", "Pretty sure this guy doesn't work for USCIS as he lacks some pretty basic knowledge. Also he made a post about looking for digital forensics jobs, which doesn't seem like an area where USCIS would have much work.", "Look, I understand this sucks. \n\nBut if you’re here for fucking 30 years, and you haven’t gotten your citizenship, then I don’t care. That’s a long time to not do it. ", "I would like to see one single credible source, because this just isn't how it works. The government isn't going door to door searching homes and asking for papers. You have to do something seriously wrong to pop up on their radar. ", "Gladly", "Don’t a majority of them want to pay income tax to contribute to society? There needs to be a big and meaningful policy shift. \nBut that’s not the law right now. His family broke the law and he unfortunately needs to suffer the consequences. \nMy family and I got naturalized legally and it was an expensive and long process. He shouldn’t get a free pass just because he has been here for 30 years. ", "We don't owe them shit. They have no respect for our laws, they don't deserve to be here. All the rest of your social justice bullshit is summarily ignored.", "was there an established country that could provide documentation? ", "No. They have to go through the same process. Except they do it from their home in America. How much do you think it costs to go through the deportation process on a dude who has every intention of becoming legal. How much money do you think we can generate from him living working and consuming here in he country. ", "Yes. ", "Good thing the only factor to consider for illegal immigration is the economy.", "Either coast. ", "30 Years to earn citizenship and did nothing. Crocodile tears for a lazy man.", "Don't know about citizen status but at the least a permanent resident, or an extended temporary status with a path to citizenship. ", "Try \"trespassing foreigners\"", "https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers", "Snowflake ", "I mean you’re still avoiding the question. Should we follow the law? Yes. What if we think the law is wrong? Well then we should change the law but until it’s changed, we follow the law. So what he asked was do you think the law is wrong and should it be changed. It’s not splitting hairs. It’s just a separate question", "Yea because sending him back to cartels who hack people up and a police force that won't even help him is such a paradise compared to what I listed. You people are going down on this list whether you accept it or not the future is not looking at you kindly. People are starting to wake up and realize men like this are not the bad guys. They're actually reading about our government's past and how it's in huge part responsible for the situation in these countries instead blindly shouting USA USA USA and villanizing peaceful protesters who don't join in the blind patriotism. Maybe if we start criticizing our government we wouldn't have so many people trying to escape the messes we helped create.", "OP made the claim that she was illegal, get the sauce from him/her if ya want it. ", "It's a common misconception that undocumented Americans don't pay taxes, but if this guy was on anyone's payroll he paid income tax, ever bought anything he paid sales tax, owned property he paid income tax. Furtherpore, if he ever had a paying job he paid into social secuity and Medicare.... But without the chance to ever get those benefits. Obviously tax evasion is illegal, but being undocumented doesn't mean you're a tax evader any more than it means you're a murderer or jaywalker.", "👌🏼", "What if you leave first?", "> illegal immigrants are net positives to the economy\n\nNo they aren't. \n\nhttp://www.washingtonexaminer.com/record-135-billion-a-year-for-illegal-immigration-average-8075-each-25000-in-ny/article/2635757\n\n", "> if you've entered illegally or overstayed a legal visa, you have to leave and then try to apply to return legally to begin the citizenship process.\n\nWife's sister married an illegal Mexican LONG ago. He had to go back, even being married with 2 kids, home, and actually paid taxes, and his wife is a radiologist, etc. He had to go back to Mexico City for some two and a half years, then came back legally. And he had it good because he had been paying taxes through some program working towards amnesty of some degree. So he had very good cred to come back.\n\nHe owns his own authentic taco/mexican restaurant now, that gets raves reviews and after a year he's looking at opening a second location.", "two people are on a boat\n\none pilots the boat, the other makes a hole in it\n\nthe boat sinks because of the hole\n\n\"well we're both sinking, so we are equally to blame\"", "I mean, I feel for the guy but he's had 30 years to work towards legal citizenship. It's hard to be sympathetic towards him because it's his own wrong doing that got him in those shoes ", "But they do... taxes are applied to every paycheck they get... but they don't have access to the benefits of taxes every year ", "Err, you do know that getting a green card/citizenship can take many years right? This is a guy who has a family, he has to leave them behind and won't be able to see them for many years IF he can even get citizenship. ", "You have to come in legally. Follow the rules.", "There has to be a line somewhere.", "He legally couldn’t do it because he was brought here illegally and was ineligible for DACA. So don’t blame him for this.", "Have you ever looked into this yourself?", "I'd like to see evidence he was. Him being here illegally, and thus not having a lot of things that the IRS can track him with means its likely he didn't.\n\nAnd being here illegally is a crime anyways. ", "Caring to vote is one thing. Making someone go to their state of birth to get their birth certificate from decades back, then making them go to a DMV or similar all in order to get an ID is a different matter entirely. Especially when you then limit the hours of DMVs in regions of your state more populated by black people.\n\nThere are barriers that limit the people who can vote on the margins. Not everyone is banned, but enough are disenfranchised to make it 'worthwhile' as a strategy to preserve one's political power.\n\nBut from the standpoint of the process, of our principles of being a representative democracy, it really does fly in the face of our stated principles.\n\nSimilarly, a pathway to citizenship for this man, who was brought to America as a child, was not available. To apply for residency or citizenship you have to have been \"admitted\" into the United States. He was never \"admitted.\" For some seeking to preserve their political power, they see offering a path to citizenship for people like Jorge as weakening their power.\n\nTo many, they play politics as if it is a zero sum game. The burdens are not unreasonable in their stated justifications. Protection of voting integrity and control of borders and legal pathways to citizenship are fair points to make, the trouble is that in the design and application of the policy, those stated justifications are not addressed.\n", "Yes if you married, legitimately, a US citizen and then filed the right paperwork, you can adjust status.", "Was he supposed to return as a minor? Or after he had been in the US long enough to have no relationships in Mexico? \n\nMoving abroad is always challenging. Moving to an economically depress country (he would have turned 18 around 1995) in which you have no support network is extremely challenging. To suggest that he do that knowing how hard it would be to return as an undocumented immigrant is basically telling him to kiss his family goodbye for good.\n\nI totally understand why he would want to put that off as long as possible. He managed to stretch it out 20+ years.", "You can't get citizenship while here. Is he supposed to quit his job, leave his family, and go back to his parents home country to apply for citizenship and potentially never be able to come back?? ", "Why? I come from a family of immigrants, if this man wasn’t a felon there’s no reason for him not take care of his paperwork years ago.", "It does no good to anyone.\n\nIt's immoral enforcement by bureaucratic zombies of a brainless regulation put in place by racist politicians \"serving the interest\" of a structurally racist society. \n\nThis begs the question, Why is there no streamlined waiver process for people in this situation? Of course this is rhetorical. There is no streamlined waiver process because the power structure in this country is absolutely dependent on making us regular ol' \"white\" folk fear, distrust and hate everyone else. \n\nThere's a relevant LBJ quote but you probably know it, so I won't bother rehashing.\n\nAnyway, this is a direct result of structural and institutional racism being leveraged by powerful whites to keep the status quo the status quo.", "Next we can round up all the socially awkward incel losers that are bringing everyone down and deport all of them.", "Ya! I mean just look at this guy spewing hate about illegal immigration \n\nhttps://youtu.be/ZnOpGI0qRhA", "This is straight out of Kafka's \"The Castle\" book.\n\nWhat the fuck.", "...Really? Now? For the first time?\n\nLike...your country hasn't done anything that you found shameful and horrible in the last sixty years except for this? Nothing?\n\nSince 1958 America hasn't done anything that made you ashamed of it?...\n\nNow, I'm not American and I fucking LOVE my country but I could easily list at least five things that I find horribly repulsive and awful that we've done, and I consider us one of the better ones.", "You can't apply if you are here illegally. You need a green card to apply otherwise you have to apply from outside the country.", "It would seem like there would be, right? \n\nThis is why people are fighting so hard to extend DACA protection to the Dreamers. There is literally no path to citizenship for them. :\\", "And yet we have to deal these damn tax evading, Medicare vacuums in rural anywhere who make this good person who should be a damn citizen leave wtf", "Good question. Just like how has he been here for 30+ years without any issues until now? ", "But plenty of folks come into the US legally. Unclear why we have to accept illegal immigrants that drains our system?", "[Here's a flow chart I like to use when explaining it.](http://static.openlawlab.com/uploads/2011/10/IMmigration-Law-Comic-Terry-Colon-Reason.jpg) It's a little out of date (2008) but it's still fairly accurate\n\nTLDR: Best case scenario since he's married to a citizen, he could become a citizen in 6-7 years. The caveat being that he'd have to leave the country first and then apply.", "And in 30 years, he never bothered to get legal. Great Plan, Jorge. Too much trouble, I suppose.", "So this dude woke up every morning for 30 years knowing he was in the country illegally and each and every day made the choice not to fix his status..... sorry not sorry! We're a country of laws, and he didn't follow him - what did you expect would happen? ", "> He's a hard working family man who was here illegally. What do you suppose the correct choice of action is?\n\nOffer him citizenship, put him on a fasttrack (6 months) course. The end.\n\nTo call him presence here \"illegal\" is dumb. This is on par with a parking ticket. Supposing it's even that serious.\n\n> We can either break our laws and allow him to stay,\n\nBad laws should be broken. Then repealed. \n\n> setting precedence for others to illegally immigrate in the hopes they'll also get an exception\n\nHow horrible!\n\n> Unless we would like to open the borders completely, \n\nYeh. Let's do that.", "Yeah, and it's you law and order types that want nothing to do with changing unjust laws. A law that results in that man's family being torn apart is unjust. Democrats have been trying for years to get this situation fixed through legislation. \n\nGuess who has blocked it every single step of the way? republicans who gleefully obstruct the legislative process at the same time that they yell themselves hoarse about \"following the law\" on the other. \n\nI am so done. The racists in this country want this to happen. Ruining this man's life makes them happy. \"Law and order\" is just a means to an end. ", "That’s a tough break. His parents shouldn’t have brought him here illegally. ", "Arrests for illegal border crossings in 2017 are at a 46 year low. ", "If he's not a citizen he's not a citizen ", "This is so, so, so fucked up.", "You suggest we emulate the native americans here?", "The Democrats had a majority in the house and Senate and had the Whitehouse ... They didn't address it. 2008-2010. Saying this is a 1 party issue is ignoring history.\n\n\nEvery country has laws like this. Try to become a Canadian citizen, it's very hard unless you have lots of money or are from the middle East. They will also kick you out of the country if you come in illegally.", "He couldn't apply for citizenship because one cannot apply if here illegally. You should try to have some compassion. He came here as a child and only knew the US. Now he has to go to a country that he doesn't know. His family is being broken up. It's sad. ", "Not true. I’m a citizen so I have full rights to live here. He is not a citizen, so he does not have full rights to live here. ", "Correct on the form, but in order to get that successfully processed your spouse has to leave the country and re-enter with a legal status if they entered undocumented. I know this, because my wife and I just went through this last year.\n", "Why would he pay taxes if he's here illegally? Like how would he do that? Is the IRS just like \"hey that's immigration enforcement's job to worry about but we'll still take your money\"?", "If you knew anything about what MLK actually stood for, you'd understand. \n\n>Everyman is somebody because he is a child of God. And so when we say Thou shalt not kill, we're really saying that human life is too sacred to be taken on the battlefields of the world. Man is more than a tiny vagary of whirling electrons or a wisp of smoke from a limitless smoldering. Man is a child of God, made in His image, and therefore must be respected as such. Until men see this everywhere, until nations see this everywhere, we will be fighting wars. One day somebody should remind us that, even though there may be political and ideological differences between us, the Vietnamese are our brothers, the Russians are our brothers, the Chinese are our brothers; and one day we've got to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.....And when we truly believe in the sacredness of human personality, we won't exploit people, we won't trample over people with the iron feet of oppression, we won't kill anybody.\n", "That's not really true. It depends on several factors.", "It's hard to expect that of someone. If from ten years old you are told your status is a secret do you truly think anyone in that position would turn 18 and voluntarily be sent \"back\" to a country they barely remember while everyone they know and love is here? You could even put those you love in jeopardy with your \"honesty\". It's an impossible situation. ", "And potentially none of them speak Spanish or have a home or jobs in Mexico lined up...yeah, that’s not a situation for 3 kids if you can help it. If both parents are being deported, maybe, but not if you can help it. ", "Yes yes screw the laws that I don’t like or agree with. Yessssss", "You will notice how they conveniently do not care if a white person comes over illegally", "Fuck off. ", "If you enter \"illegally\" you stay illegal until you leave again and wait a period of time (I think it is like 10 years). You cannot change your status from within the US if you entered this way. If you entered legally and then overstayed your VISA (which I believe is where most \"illegals\" come from) then the rules are a little different.", "Student, Trainee and Internship visas are all pretty much the same on this. Agreeing to leave the US once those run out and to not attempt to apply for a different visa is required to get them in the first place.", "I personally know a women that crossed over illegally. She got her citizenship a few years ago. ", "Why do we not just deport people to other countries when they commit crimes? Why do we not just jail our illegal immigrants? They're different situations with different rules.", "Big pharma killed hillarycare. ", "Meaning resources are finite and not every person on Earth can just come here and be a US citizen because they want to.\n\nThere is a limit to shit, and 13 million undocumented immigrants sounds like it is pretty fucking far on the wrong side on any reasonable limit. ", "I'm upvoting you because I like your civility, but it sounds like, though, you want us to take responsibility for someone else's actions. The US did not bring him here or make him stay. \"But, I've broken the law for a really long time up to this point. What's the big deal now?\" is not a defense you would let a pedophile or bank robber or embezzler make. Why should this be any different? And, we don't know what the net cumulative effect of illegal immigrants has done to this country and economy. Admittedly, it might be positive, but we honestly don't know.", "I don't understand, why was this posted? Why is this significant in any way?", "No you don't. You're a sophomore in high school.", "Oh and I'm sure your ancestors didn't come here looking for new start...", "I vote me, as a Latino y’all wouldn’t be able to call me a racist for doing it to my own kind.", "No, just the illegal ones. ", "You can't legally apply for citizenship without a greencard, being here illegally and not under Daca means that he would have had to leave the country and then apply.", "Okay Ace Ventura lol", "No respect for our laws just like the other people I listed. How come you can't get that through your head. The law isn't what determines what's right or wrong. How about our government who has no respect for them and fucks their homes up. Maybe stop jerking off to our country and start criticizing the real bad guys instead of some innocent man trying to make a life for his family.", "He'd have to apply, and then leave the country and wait x years before coming back in; assuming they accept you.\n\nNot sure if it's apply -> leave -> come back.\n\nOr leave -> apply -> come back.\n\nThere are waivers if you provide proof your family will go through extreme hardship if you were to leave, but I'm sure you have to meet very specific criteria.", "adiós\n", "And his story should stand as a cautionary tale for people who consider coming here illegally and who might love their children.", "Thanks mom. :)", "Good", "I'm saying the proof she came here legally is needed. There's ample evidence that she worked in the US during the time when she had a visa that did NOT allow her to work in the US, and when pressed she pulls the official Trump move of just not releasing any fucking documents at all.\n\nShe could prove she immigrated legally, but she won't. I don't know if she did or not, but circumstantial evidence suggests she didn't, and she won't do anything to prove otherwise.\n\nHence [citation needed] to \"she came legally\".", "Making America great again, eh? ", "You realize that almost every other country is also like this? The US already has some of the most lax immigration laws in the world without people trying to make it easier. ", "Just because something is legal does not make it just. People can have understandings of justice that differ from the law. The comment you replied to said that some people may see this as an injustice. It's a matter of personal morals. It's the difference between \"we should keep out all foreigners\" and \"we should be welcoming to those who come here to live and raise their families in peace\". Personally, I feel that it would be more just to have a pathway for this man to become a legal citizen without having to separate from his family for an uncertain amount of time. ", "Depends if there really is no way to do this or if there is no expedient way.\n\nIf the former, then yes, it is a systemic problem, because you're creating strife and crime where none need exist.\n\nI'd say that being a minor when you were brought in should exonerate you somewhat, since children have close to no agency, but aince there is no paperwork proving that happened good luck proving that. \n\nEasiest solution would probably be that, if you're marrying a citizen, you should leave, come in legally when marrying and after that apply for the visa, but it's goddamned ridiculous that you'd need to game the system this way to rectify a situation like this", "Do you not know how to read? There is a difference between being here illegally and coming here illegally. If they came here legally and stayed past their visa, then they can do A-E. If they were not around during the amnesty in the 80s (which this guy wasn't), and they came here illegally (as opposed to just overstaying a visa), then they are not eligible for A-E. \n\nI'm not an immigration lawyer, but that's how I've understood what people are linking to with actual sources.", "Key words of your reply are “illegally” and “deported.”", "Cry more, reddit", "Choosing not to vote is just as much your right as voting is. Of course, I think it's an ignorant thing to do, but you should be able to do so if you want. \n\nPlus, I think it's a pretty safe assumption that most people who don't vote are probably uninformed. I honestly would rather uninformed people not vote. Obviously, they should be allowed to, but I personally think that an uninformed voting base is not a good thing. ", "Yes, yes it is. ", ">I already pointed out that the vast majority of economists would agree that even illegal immigrants are net positives to the economy \n\nEven if true that does not mean that illegal immigration is a net good for the country and those in it. I don't have an opinion one way or another besides wanting illegal immigration to either be stopped or the law changed to make it legal.\n\n>he knows he is full of shit and just wanted to make an anti immigration post\n\nMaybe he is, but to be fair, it was an anti-illegal immigration post, not anti-immigration. To lump legal and illegal immigration together would also make you \"full of shit\" so I'll assume its an honest mistake.", "> hard working family men get kicked out because of massive intolerance\n\nWhat? He wasn't kicked out for being Mexican he was kicked out for being here illegally. Unfortunately you can't just squat somewhere and get citizenship. None of this has any relationship to the Wall Street fiasco. ", "I was brought to the US when I was 4. I didn't become a legal, permanent resident until I was 24. I paid taxes since I was 18, had a social security number that wasn't valid for employment (contradicting, right?), went to public schools, and lived a normal American life. I even had a legit drivers license. At times, I would forget I was different.\n\nThe system is fucked. Feel free to ask any questions if you want. At the end of the day, it all comes down to money.", "Then he should of left the country. ", "something something bootstraps", "Yes. Have you never studied US history? Before the US was a sovereign nation, it was a colony. Before that, it was a series of colonies. \n\nColonial powers have the authority to regulate immigration to their colonies. \n", "Because they left off the second half of that slogan. It's really:\n\nMake America Great Again [For People Like Us]", "you solved his problem! that was easy!", "You will never, ever convince me that this kind of result is anything but fucked up.", "You can't get a green card if you are here illegally.", "Less intense than this. ", "When you've lived somewhere for all of your formative years, all your friends and family there, I doubt it's easy to just up sticks and move back to a country you may hardly remember.", "Fuck you, you self-important childish ignorant hack. The only reason today this family is torn apart is because of ONE PARTY. One party has disingenuously lied, manipulated, and dog-whistled about the debate over immigration for years. That party is the republican party, plain and simple. ", "You are disgustingly moronic. Dems have had plenty of chances where they were in control. ", "Ah interesting, would you mind providing some credible evidence to back up your claim ?", "You can, my wife was F1, so long as you file before your grace period ends you don't have to leave the country. We're still in the process, but the only limitation was that she wouldnt be allowed re-entry until the i-485 was processed. ", "Is a 10 year old child who was led by family really considered someone who actively and deliberately broke immigration law?\n\nEdit: is this Disneyland false equivalency some targeted talking point? I've so far received two near identical responses from T_D posters.", "Would be helpful if you mentioned what else is important ", "> And I should add, I use the term \"undocumented\" because the term \"illegal\" implies that these folks have broken criminal laws.\n\nIt does? Civil laws are still laws.", "30 years is plenty of time to go back and do it the right way.", "Fucking ridiculous.\n\nWhat organizations exist to support people in these situations? I want to help.", "Injustice = his parents broke the law and HE is paying the price, not them.", "And you think that's because we deport people in their 40s who came here as kids?", "While I entirely entirely and completely agree with you my question, devil's advocate I suppose, is knowing you're here illegally at say 18 or early 20s why didn't he try to get his citizenship? ", "The government that is deporting him? That changed the policy to go after non-violent immigrants? \n\nHow in the world could the people that are deporting him have any responsibility...gee, I wonder. ", "Buy a stolen one? Otherwise I have no idea.", "Wow. 30 years to correct the problem, and yet it's Trump's fault. These immigration laws have existed long before Trump, but reddit is just too narrow minded to stop and think about that fact. Trump hasn't made any new immigration laws that caused this deportation. None. ", "You can’t apply once you’re here illegally. Potentially enlisting, but that’s it. You literally can’t. You get deported regardless of what you’re attempting to apply for in terms of status. ", "https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html?utm_term=.ca5801243347\n\n>In his wallet, Anthony Settles carries an expired Texas identification card, his Social Security card and an old student ID from the University of Houston, where he studied math and physics decades ago. What he does not have is the one thing that he needs to vote this presidential election: a current Texas photo ID.\n>\n>For Settles to get one of those, his name has to match his birth certificate — and it doesn’t. In 1964, when he was 14, his mother married and changed his last name. After Texas passed a new voter-ID law, officials told Settles he had to show them his name-change certificate from 1964 to qualify for a new identification card to vote.\n>\n>So with the help of several lawyers, Settles tried to find it, searching records in courthouses in the D.C. area, where he grew up. But they could not find it. To obtain a new document changing his name to the one he has used for 51 years, Settles has to go to court, a process that would cost him more than $250 — more than he is willing to pay.\n\n\nhttps://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote\n\n>A good number of these people, particularly seniors, function well with the IDs they have long had — such as Medicaid cards, Social Security cards or bank cards. Among the elderly, many of them have banked at the same branch for so long that tellers recognize them without needing to see their IDs. They also may rarely need to cash or deposit checks, relying instead on the direct depositing of Social Security and pension payments.\n>\n>\"The people we're finding are very poor people, people who never drove — and it's surprising how many people are like that,\" says Larry Dupuis of the American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin, which has filed suit to overturn that state's voter ID law. \"They tend to be older people, often women. They also never had a need for a state ID card. There are many things you don't need an ID card for that people think you actually need one for.\"\n>\n>. . .\n>\n>Many states offer non-driver IDs that can be displayed when voting, often provided by motor vehicle agencies.\n>\n>But that can create a host of problems for some. Rural residents can live great distances from state motor vehicle offices. And some state motor vehicle agencies have chronically long wait times for customers. In Tennessee, which has a new voter ID law, the governor has raised concerns about whether offices are prepared to handle an increased volume of ID seekers.\n>\n>. . .\n>\n>“A lot of people don’t realize what it takes to obtain an ID without the proper identification and papers,” said Abbie Kamin, a lawyer who has worked with the Campaign Legal Center to help Texans obtain the proper identification to vote. “Many people will give up and not even bother trying to vote.”\n>\n>A federal court in Texas found that 608,470 registered voters don’t have the forms of identification that the state now requires for voting. For example, residents can vote with their concealed-carry handgun licenses but not their state-issued student university IDs.\n>\n>Across the country, about 11 percent of Americans do not have government-issued photo identification cards, such as a driver’s license or a passport, according to Wendy Weiser of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law.", "Yes, leave behind your wife and kids, the immigration process can take many years at that, and that's only if you can get in, which he might not have and then he would have risked never seeing his family again.", "The sins of a father should not carry to his children.\n\nA 10 year old has no bearing on his living situation, and to kick him out after establishing a life as best as he could for 20+ years is egregious and a spit in the face of the \"American dream\".\n\n\n", "That's what is so annoying about the issue. Total and complete ignorance on part of the citizens. It's like you're talking to some sort of comic book grade sheltered royalty, reaching some sort of \"why won't they just have their servant make them cake if they don't have bread?\" level of dialogue. This also permits republicans to whip up their voter base to \"do something\" over an issue which had this something done to it a dozen times before. ", "No, he paid taxes into a system but is getting no benefits. Look at him. He isn't a gang banger or a druggy. He is a family man. The party of family values is breaking up a family. Definitely not what Jesus would do. ", "It is good when bad things happen to ICE agents.", "Yup. The Republicans are worse but let's not paint Democrats as any kind of heroes.", "Anyone who works in the US and receives a paycheck pays income taxes. Unless the employer is paying them under the table even illegals pay taxes : federal, state, social security and Medicare. They never become eligible for Medicare because of their status but they all contribute to the tax pool. If an employer pays them under the table then the employer is committing a crime themselves because an employer also carries a tax responsibility for employees. Some employers do this with their employees who are illegal because that way they can pocket more money themselves (the employer not the illegal employee). ", "Thank you for the insight Yoda. ", "So it's safe and good for his family to just come with him?", "can't without leaving", "It should have been a Trump supporter.", "Yes, judge every case on FEELINGS, not LAW, thats how you get a functional society, right guys?", "Soooooo he's illegal ? Bye then ", "To clarify: it must be an immigrant visa like work or student. Can't do this on a tourist visa for obvious reasons.", "It’s kind of sad that we have think we have this inalienable right to treat other people like garbage based on the geographic location that they were born. Just think what a joke our generation will be in 500 years from now when neither the United States and Mexico no longer exist as countries. Just war torn memories. ", "Shitty threads like these is why people voted for Trump.. ", "He can’t even apply for a green card since he was brought here illegally. Which is also something he could not control! ", "Let's do a go fund me. Get like an A team together to go rescue people like this. That picture. Right in the feels.", "You are a disgrace to the nation if all you want to do is blame Trump for all americas problems. This was the doing os the ICE, Trump had no say in this. While it breaks my heart to see a family town apart this man had 30 years to leave America and the apply for a proper citizenship. Instead he hid and now has to pay the consequences for breaking the law. He may not have came over on his own but he could have left and used the proper channels to return. This is the bed he made and he must lie in it. Maybe one day things will change and men like him will not be forced to leave but you blaming Trump for ICE which has been around since shortly after 9/11, will not help make the change you want to see.", "Mate you basically called it a shithole, and then tried to act holier than thou about it when called out. Unbelievable.", "Yeah, fuckin 10 year olds", "In the way that people shouldn't benefit from committing crimes.", "To be clear, you're taking about the procedure for adults who entered illegally, not this particular individual who came at the age of 10, correct?", "The_Donald brigaded the bottom of this thread, ignore that troll. Canada's doing perfectly fine lmao", "It isn’t ignorance of the tax code, it is making an assumption about the illegal immigrants. ", "Source for that? ", "That’s a tough break. But I guess his parents shouldn’t have brought him here illegally then?", ">enforcement of immigration laws has nothing to do with race\n\nyikes", "Undocumented immigrants contribute about $12B in taxes every year. And this man is no different; the article that you chose not to bother reading very clearly states he was paying taxes.", "I'm starting to think that Trump fellow isn't entirely truthful with us...", "Fu", "Because you don’t immigrate legally. It’s simple, really.", "Give everyone already here a fucking green card christ. Lets make the system in place work for us not against. ", "Lol he's not middle Eastern or has tons of money, Canada wouldn't take him. Canada has far more restrictive immigration policies than the US.", "fuck ddrumpfhh that's why", "Yeah, but don’t let that get in the way of the circle jerk ", "This statement is incorrect on many fronts. It is indeed a frustrating, expensive, and time-consuming process, but it doesn't take 80k to get citizenship.\n\nSource: my wife, whom i married overseas, is currently going through the ordeal.", "Bye Felicia ", "Fuck off troll. ", "No exceptions mindset leads to no tolerance policies, and when is that wise? He's a human just like you, shouldn't he be treated as such and allowed to state his case? ", "Yeah, and that's in addition to the process of applying afterwards ", "What's the point of the wait x years thing? Is that because the process is that backed up?", "> Or, you know, make a path for illegals to become legal.\n\nI think they have that I think they file that under legal immigration.", "I’ll remember. And I’ll vote republican again. Stop letting your emotions control your views on US policy. It’s not healthy for you. ", "Why wasn't he deported 20+ years ago? ", "There had to be a judge to rule on this and he wwas supposed to consider all the facts, which we dont have. ", "No, that's ok.", "Wrong. ", "Could you provide a more bias source? What’s next, briebart?", "And what? Risk tearing your family apart sooner? Go bankrupt with dodgy lawyer's fees and be deported?", "> seen some seriously horrible people become America's problem.\n\nConsidering the many seriously horrible people who are legal citizens simply because they were born here, that doesn't hold much water.", "Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong", "On this day, the law was enforced for once and a criminal alien gets deported. Thanks for doing your job ICE.", "You realize you're talking about a 10-year old when you call him a \"cheater\" right? Just how much culpability do you think he has here?", "Link to an article or anything? ", "A win? Tell me how deporting a guy who has raised a family, pays taxes, and works is a win? We need more people like him, not less. \n ", "We don't want you back. Seeya!", "Old boss was kicked out of the US for illegally living here when his lawyer failed to renew his green card but lied and told him everything was good. He ended up moving to Canada and shutting down the business in the US. This move cost the US government and many of the agencies we worked with a lot in terms of the tech we were providing them. Pretty fucked up since we worked with ICE and many of their guys tried to get his green card reinstated but failed.", "Been through the system, if you are qualified for a job for which it is difficult to find people in Canada, it takes 3 months to get a work permit. In some provinces, you can now get PR in less than 6 months (with some specific qualifications). With PR, it takes 3 years to become a citizen, 2 if you were on a work permit before PR.", "Seems like it was easy for his parents and him to do that. ", "He was fucking 10 years old, think he knew about all the intricacies of US immigration law? ", "Id say the war means they didnt want us on their land...", "> Or, you know, make a path for illegals to become legal. \n\nDid that in the 80s under Reagan, and what happened? 12m more illegals in the country waiting for their shot at amnesty. \n\nPaths to citizenship for the majority of those illegally in the country basically cedes the border (because then the next tranche arrives and hopes to make it to the next amnesty 10-20 years down the road)", "Actually you can. I don’t know if it’s a recent thing, but I know of different people who have done it.", "i think it's more so that his family broke the law and he's being punished for it. He now has a family of his own and is completely established here and we're breaking them apart and just giving him the boot. He's as American as you or me. He's contributed more than I have.\n\nThe heartlessness grosses me out.", "good", "Be here for 8 years, build a life for yourself, then save up enough money to move to a place you probably don't identify with anymore? ", "My wife came in on a student visa, she got a green card 8 years ago when we got married and her naturalization ceremony is in 2 weeks. So that's definitely ok (she was even here illegally for like 6 months since her visa lapsed at some point).", "It doesn’t. This country was built on diversity. This is simply the byproduct of a racist shithole “president”. Trump should up his cheeseburger intake. Seems like that’s the only things he’s good at. ", "Why did he last this long? ", "Because to pay taxes you have to have a SSN or resident number. How else would they know who is filling? ", "So is speeding, or drinking and driving and about 99% of what the average human does... That is a pretty weak argument. \n\nEdit: Since people here are... a not nice word for stupid. Claiming that something shouldn't be done because it is illegal is a very weak argument because the United States has very complex and archaic laws when it comes to US laws. You can't even read your partners mail without getting jailed up to 5 years. Fuck, we have kids getting arrested in school for farting because they count it as assault. \n\nI 100% absolutely, bet my life, my wife's life and 50% of the world's population that people here complaining about illegal immigrants have broken the law to convenience themselves or better their lives.\n\nFunny how it is always good when we do it but hate it when the others do it.", " No you. ", "You have to leave he country to even start the process ", "ICE for the most part is just doing their job, they don’t make the rules ", "He was TEN you fucking idiot. \n\nHe wasn't a cheater, he was a kid. The system is broken. If you think this is justice you need to pull your head out of your ass.", "Regardless of social status he broke the law... nobody is debating that it sucks for a seemingly good citizen to have to leave his family behind. I don’t see the connection to MLK and think it’s a bit of a stretch in an attempt to draw an emotional response. ", "He's already married, and thats not how it works.", "If his children are citizens (especially his wife), then it should not take longer than 10 years.", "Is the injustice that this guy cut the line as thousands of others try the legitimate way to enter the nation? Or is the injustice that is parents put him in this situation? ", "That is not the standard for the O-1 visa. ", "Fucking disgusting. We're all humans. We're all the same. ", "Heart breaking. ", "There is certainly a process for making this sort of thing happen. They should have gotten an immigration lawyer and set up the process, perhaps with a K visa initially. But now he's gonna be screwed over since he didn't pay attention and now will likely be banned from entry for several years.", "> And I’ll vote republican again.\n\nOf course you will. You're a republican. You don't know how to do anything except what you're told. ", "Dems wanted a single payer public option except for Joe Lieberman. Too bad he was the deciding vote.", "Well then she must have left the country and came back. Which is what this guy is going to be forced to do, away from both his family and his job.\n\nhttps://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/fiance-marriage-visa-book/chapter11-1.html", "nixon did get impeached and it is looking like trump could very likely get impeached too. he is not the brightest bulb.", "You've probably gotten so many replies so sorry if this is too much, but I used to work in an immigration law office and it is a LONG process, starting with you going back to wherever you're from. It takes 1-2 (or more) years and if at the end of that you are rejected there is no way in hellllll you can get back in. So some families feel it's just better to stay than to spend a ton of money and risk not being able to come back. Also, many who move here when they are young won't even be able to fluently speak the language from their birth countries so if they were to go back they'd be helpless. They may also be from some areas that are very very unsafe.\n\nTo become a citizen it's not just filling out paperwork and if it all checks out you're in. You have to prove that you need to be in the US. You have to find every possible reason that staying your birth country is dangerous or unfit to you. You need to give them endless sob stories about how if you leave your family xy and z will happen. It's really sad that you have to basically shit talk your birth country and make it seem like everyone you love is useless without you to have even a hope of being a citizen. ", "At this point the Dems should just give trump his wall in exchange for DACA. I’m all for being hard on illegal immigration, but DACA is different entirely. ", "You'd be more likely to be correct saying Mexican than Spanish.", "Lol you’re so full of shit it’s sad. I have plenty of family that has gotten their citizenship. ", "Having worked with undocumented immigrants I can say a lot of them pay into the SSN of deceased people. Based on what I've seen it's pretty easy to do if you know the right guy.", "People pay for the sins of their parents. Slavery ended 150 years ago and people are still being blamed for the choices of their ancestors. This nation still hasn't moved forward from that, so it's not going to move forward on immigration.", "> What good does this do to anyone? What benefit is served here? \n\nuh, for one, it stops people from simply flying over for a visit and instantly gaining citizenship by getting married?\n\nI mean that's a pretty fucking huge benefit to marriage not creating citizenship", "Probably. You can pay taxes on illicit gains and I don't believe the irs will pass on your info the the authorities\n\nEDIT:\n\nhttp://money.cnn.com/2013/02/28/news/economy/illegal-income-tax/index.html\n\nUnder certain circumstances they can pass information on the appropriate authorities, but depending on the situation it may not always happen ", "It pains me to think that Obama was even further to the right on immigration than you are", "fuck the United States of America. we are a shameful place.", "No criminal record, pays his taxes, been an all-round good guy who mans-up and takes care of his family, banned for 10 years just because he was brought in illegally as a child. Hmm\n\nMove to Australia with your family mate. I'll buy you a beer!", "I’m pretty sure immigration laws are, in fact, for the greater good. The greater good of residents and citizens, including those who actually bothered to go through the proper process of immigrating legally. ", "Is it really that much of a stretch when MLK specifically said, \"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.\"\n\nHe didn't say what kind of injustice. He didn't say how bad of an injustice. Not only that, this is in many peoples' minds a very bad injustice against a minority population. I'm pretty fucking sure that MLK fought against bad injustices against a minority population.", " > This nation used to be a shining star. Now it's becoming a symbol of indecency.\n\nYeah, when?", "I'm surprised Trumps MLK day proclamation wasn't rescinding the holiday.", "Still pay, just have a chance of getting your taxes back in the form of a refund assuming you filed your W-2s.", "This is so far past politics. This is just choosing to ruin people’s lives for no good reason. This makes me want to see those responsible suffer true personal tragedy as karmic retribution. ", "Did you miss the point that he had no choice because he was brought by his parent's when he was ten years old?", "It is a bad move by the parents sure. But if he stayed at Disney and worked and payed and found a family there for 30 years then yeah idk I’d kind of say Disney was pulling a dick move forcing him to go to Universal Studios where he doesn’t even know the rides and stuff ", "Why don't other people get houses in the US while they work toward citizenship, though? I mean, this guy is simply because he was already here, why does he get a pass and every other immigrant who is doing it the correct way doesn't get to stay in the US?", "yay bureaucracy", "So sad. ICE is tearing families apart.", "So if you got brought here by your parents illegally it's literally impossible to remain at home and become a citizen? Im sure im missing something but as of right now that might be the dumbest shit Ive ever heard. ", "How would he have paid income taxes with no SSN? He should owe 30 years back tax. ", "By that Logic “Pro choice” would be “anti child”. I’m not a pro lifer but it’s always important to play devils advocate\n ", "you have the same question he neglected to find out the answers to as well, are you an illegal immigrant?", "Once an adult he had the chance to leave the country and return legally. He chose not to fully knowing he was here Illegally. So it became his crime also. ", "That's dumb as fuck.", "That's cold.", "When you’re right, you’re right. Everyone wants everybody to be welcome and to just come on in but that’s not how the world works. It’s not racist to say that people need to do things the legitimate way. ", "Rich folks been ordering white women from overseas over the phone for years - suddenly you wanna talk about people cheating the system?", "Because one day at Disney Land is way different than spending your childhood being molded and shaped by Disney Land through no fault of your own and not knowing anything else except Disney Land and then when you are old enough to make your own decisions you decide maybe that the gun ridden playground in the ghetto is not where you want to raise your children. \n\nI'm all for stronger limitations on those coming in, but maybe you can see why we can have compassion for those brought into the country as children against their will.", "> No. They have to go through the same process. Except they do it from their home in America.\n\n\nThats my point, they cheated and got in illegally and would be rewarded for it by getting to stay while other immigrants have to wait to get in. Do you know what will happen if you give illegals a path to citizenship that doesn't involve deportation? You get a huge influx of people crossing the border illegally. That makes huge sums of money for the gangs that run the border, who rape, murder, and rob people they are letting cross. ", "The problem is - how do you prove someone has been here 10 years if they are undocumented? There’s no paper trail due to the nature of illegal immigration", "So many armchair lawyers here", "Yo, they're sending him to Spain?", "A net positive to the economy could still adversely effect job opportunities for unskilled black labor. Why does one make the other untrue?", "Many “illegals” pay taxes every day.", "So either way he was illegal the entire time, how hard is this for people to understand its a law not a feel. ", "What about?...", "He was ten. Jesus Christ. ", "You must leave the country and apply for citizenship if you are in the US illegally. ", "We need to prevent this from happening again, but not taking 30 years to deport the next Jorge Garcia. This is a failure of the system.\n\n", "Tough luck for him, it’s not the govts fault his parents decided to fuck him over legally", "technically theyre probably here legally. ", "Non-liberal opinion on Reddit? Get 'em, boys", "Right? Why did Trump start all these deportation laws? This never once happened under Obama. /s", "Well he accomplished his goal which is to have a better life for his kids. ", "You can't compare a pedophile or a ban robber or embezzler to this man that's the point. That's why I made that list in my first comment. Those people were not doing anything morally wrong but they broke the law and because they did things started to change. People started to wake up and realize it was wrong. This man broke the law but he is not a bad person. Just like a black person who drank from a white water fountain. People like him are trying to escape horrors and make better lives and our government, the same one that's sending them back to this mess, is in huge part responsible for that mess. All the other criminals you listed are bad people. This guy is not a bad person.", "Lol. He broke the law. Plain and simple. He had 30 years to get his legality in order. Sucks for the family, but I have no pity.", "Grow up snowflake ", "You didn't have to be rude. They were just unsure of the laws and asked about it.", "I have no problem with immigrants, but I have a problem that ilagal people getting sob story's in the papers just because they are getting kicked out. \n\n\n", "One party failed by allowing the other to gain uncheckable power. The other party fucked up by just deciding to fuck everybody. The dems are quite united on the immigration front. They've tried addressing the issues. The dems have been begging the GOP for help on this. But, racists don't like other races, go figure. ", "Bye Jose!", " You are correct. My current boss and a coworker of mine have both pursued permanent residence this way within the past couple of years years. One as a student visa and the other with a work visa.", "He was referring to the 30 years of not enforcing immigration laws.", "You remember Elian Gonzalez right? The man who's now a communist who had a chance to live a good life, a free life, in America with his family? Who was deported by the Clinton administration? ", "I'm sure this will be top of mind for any 10-year-olds who are considering coming here illegally and against their own wills.", "can you maybe think of something else we could possibly blame in this situation", "He had 30 years to make it right, fuck him", "What in the actual fuck. Whose enforcing this? Are ICE agents just following orders or what?", "If anyone is to blame for this, it’s this man’s parents. People should realize that actions eventually have consequences, it may not be you but can effect someone further down the line", "And my point is: he had 30 years to make that happen. And plan it. And not be forced out and cause that stress on his family. \n\nIt’s not like he has only been here for a week. That’s all I’m saying. ", "While I do feel for his family and what he’s going through. I think it’s important to follow the laws of the country that you want to stay in. It’s a heart wrenching situation, but it’s not like law enforcement are doing anything wrong. They’re just following the law. ", "Wow. Nice Trump logic. Please give us more wisdom. ", "Also, it is possible that these deportations are widening the great divide between races via resentment. So sad for everyone.", "Have you seen how slowly legislation moves through Congress? It takes more than two years, much more, to fix everything wrong with this country. Especially when, for every step forward you take, the other party makes you take two steps backwards when they take control.", "Then you don't know what you're talking about. ", "Legally. ", "Should've gotten his citizenship by now. He has to go back. ", "AFAIK without an SSN or legal status he can't pay income taxes without stealing someone's identity. So not sure how that one works.", "I bet his kids just love America now! No way something like this could radicalize anyone!", "Believe it or not, they kind of do that.\n", "This is awful... best of luck to all of them.", "Yeah sure let me just abandon my family for several years or more while I go through the proper channels.", "Recent stories like this make me ashamed to call myself an American. Its an embarrassing time for our country. For those of you not in the United States please remember that the intolerance being put forth today does not reflect all of our views and I would like to apologize for this. ", "He would have had to leave as a ten year old to not be barred. So he really had no options whatsoever. ", "~~Who was here illegally~~\n\nWho was brought here illegally by his family when he was 10.", "I don't have to assume a guy is paying taxes. If the IRS comes after you, they don't just start with the assumption you paid taxes. You have to prove it. And him being a illegal immigrant does not help his case.", "And there it is. The real reason.", "Muhhh jobs ", "In a country you've never lived in or have any resources or acquaintances, for a process that could take months to years. \nFuck off. ", "But like.. \nhe didn't have a choice, he was 10..", "They have to go back", "How many illegal Spanish people do you think are in the US? How many people from EU would want to illegally immigrate to the US ahahahah.. Please, he's Mexican, which is Hispanic or Latin, but NOT Spanish.", "Because he got there illegally and that's a crime. ", "There ought to be some kind of appeal process. If someone was brought to the US as a child and had no way to become even a green card holder, yet still paid taxes and had no legal record, then that person should have an option to appeal their status and let a judge determine what to do.", "We fucking have laws for a reason. If my dad stole a car when I was 10, and gave it to me when I turned 18, it’s still a stolen car. This man had plenty of time as an adult to go back to his country, and begin the immigration process legally. Without borders we do not have a country. We are not some social hub where people come to hangout for life.", "Glad to see American law upheld. Illegal is illegal. Here for 30 years and never tried to fix it? No pity here. ", "How do you live in a country for 30 years and not try to cement your legal status?", "I just love when people pretend that the us is the only country on earth with immigration laws that deport illegals, and everywhere else just takes people in with open arms. \n", "You receive a tax-id that allows you to pay income tax. My mom paid income tax for 13 years when we were undocumented. ", "Sucks to be him. Laws are a bitch if you're on the wrong side of them.", "Then you must say fuck homeland security as well because the ICE was formed by them shortly after 9/11. In which case you have to say fuck Bush and Obama for allowing ICE to exist and fuck all other presidents who allow immigration control.", "Yeah, because their argument is \"haha bye amigo #MAGAMAGAMAGA\" or something equally ridiculous.", "You don't need a SSN to pay taxes. You can apply for a Tax ID number thru the IRS so that you can file taxes. ", "just asking how a illegal immigrant in the US can apply for citizenship while remaining the the country ", "Illegal immigrants ", "Illegal is illegal I don't get why people can't wrap their head around that ", "MAGA!\n\nSomehow, I guess.\n\nDeporting a supportive father who had no choice in being here is not that somehow, though. \n\nSorry, world. We'll fix this shithole government soon enough", "> stealing our resources for 30 years.\n\nPays taxes but stealing resources.... Does not compute.", "irony on mlk day", "You notice, I referred to the parents, not the children.", "Uh, what?", "Come back and do it the legal way", "Oh Hell No!\nI guess I over simplified!\nThe \"American Government\" has been responsible for many FUCK UPS!\nWhat country are you from?\nLet's compare notes!", "Uh so what about when he got older? No one asked him to start a family when he was here illegally. The role of the government is to enforce it's borders. Otherwise, what's the point of having a border?\n\n\nApparently I have triggered some feelings. I know plenty of people that have finished high school here and immediately went back to their home country to work on getting a legal status in the United States. I don't understand why enforcing our borders is a controversial issue. Yes it sucks that his parents brought him here illegally, but that doesn't change the fact that he's illegal.\n\n\nTo the person that says he's a tax paying citizen. You're an idiot. He's an illegal immigrant. The opposite of tax paying citizen ", "\"We have laws for a reason\"\n\nGod I hate you. What a loser", "Sounds like his parents really screwed him over", "https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2018/01/15/jorge-garcia-daca-deported-mexico-immigration/1033296001/\n\nDetroit newspaper article on it.", "How do you live in America for 30 years get married, have kids and still don’t work out your citizenship??? I have an uncle you was an excon who still was able to become a citizen all within 2 years. Don’t feel bad for what is basically laziness ", "Sounds like an excellent opportunity for the family to come down here to Australia or New Zealand. We have no problems taking all the US' productive, educated, skilled workers when they throw them out like a bunch of morons.", "> I don't see how this is a governmental fault.\n\nBecause the government isn't recognizing that the 10 year old did not have a say when his parents decided to illegally immigrate. ", "> We need a permanent path to citizenship \n\nThere is one, it just doesn’t start with breaking the law.", "Wow.. That's so sad.", "It makes sense to hold people to legal standards. Come illegally, leave once caught. \n---Edited for incorrect spelling.", "These are the situations that make the political divide so difficult. The best answer is a combination of views in my opinion... my moral compass tells me the following:\n\n- Someone naturalized already with a family and productive life should be fast-tracked to citizenship\n- At the same time naturalization should immediately be made illegal henceforth to discourage the incentive to immigrate illegally, while allowing those who have planted true and demonstrable roots here to be naturalized\n- Increase ease and speed of immigration process for those willing to do so legally while instating no-tolerance extradition for those doing so illegally\n- build the wall but increase the gate size\n- guide people towards acclimating to the values of freedom through instructive reception and courses and incentivize them to create a productive life instead of creating the hard requirement to already be amazingly productive\n- at the same time create hardline permanent lifelong extradition on second offense misdemeanor and first offense felony\n- create mandatory 30 year sentences for illegal immigration smugglers and lifetime sentences for firearms and drug smugglers\n- widen the gates for political and wartime refugees but for God’s sake teach them what freedom and mutual respect for integrated cultures means through actual instructive and acclimative programs rather than just dumping them in shelter cities and leaving them to fend for themselves\n- inclusion, not exclusion for those coming in for help and legal immigration... hardline fucking ruthless hammer of the law for those who would do so illegally or with ill intent\n\nThis is likely oversimplified and there are definitely going to be a lot of things I’m not addressing... but a combination of liberal and conservative attitudes here seems to be the best solution for a very real problem which simultaneously concerns human compassion as well as homeland security and preservation of national security.", "This is a huge problem. Many people don’t understand that there is no option for these people to get green cards. Even if they are upstanding people. The irony is if they try to go home and come back with a visa they trigger mandatory bars to reentry ", "Hey, I absolutely agree, it's fucked. Just stating the way the system works with regards to entering illegally (I'm here on a work visa myself so had to learn a lot of this shit).", "I totally agree with you, I think there should be a path for people already here. But man, it's a tough, complicated thing. I finally did hear an argument for the opposing side that at least had a point, relating to this. The argument was essentially \"why should we prioritize people who came here illegally over people who go through the correct process of applying while in their own country\". I think that is a valid point, but also misses the bigger picture in that a) a large portion of the people who came here illegally had no choice (brought by parents, too young, fleeing violence/danger meant to stay would be death, etc) and b) we don't have to prioritize - we can treat both equally. They will say that by treating both 'equally' (applications from 'illegal' immigrants already in the country accepted at the same rate as applications from 'legal' potential immigrants) we now equate illegal to legal which is unfair to those doing it legally. Okay, then maybe we weight applications from 'illegal' applicants less than those from 'legal' applicants. That is still unfair, though, in that we have tacitly already accepted the 'illegal' application just by entertaining the application - what is the incentive to waiting in your own country if you can instead just come here illegally and apply, even if the acceptance rate is less. I don't have an answer for that other than I think empathy is important, and a blanket rule of not allowing people like the man in the post photo to stay is immoral and wrong when he is effectively already a US citizen except for a piece of paper that says so. The only thing deporting this man does is make hard line immigration reformers smile with schadenfreude. ", "Something something irrelevant partisan comment", "On the opposite side, they may want to not disrupt the lives of their children to send them to an unfamiliar country. Also, the country he's being sent to could be very dangerous. They may just want to keep their kids in the best possible circumstances no matter how hard it is on the parents. It's not a black and white choice.", "A more intelligent person would look past the source at the figures and verifiable information and conclude its accuracy and truthfulness. But don't let me rock your stable boat of denial. Ignorance is bliss, eh? ", "Your immigration laws say otherwise, so you can calm down with the virtue signaling.", "Username checks out.", "It's his fault he was brought here as a child? Fuck off.", "What does MLK day have to do with this story? ", "you don't need an SSN to file your taxes. Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITIN) are issued by the IRS. The IRS doesn't ever give you an excuse to not pay taxes. \n\n", "Just so we're clear, are you suggesting we should just allow anyone to become a us citizen?", "ICE is just another federal part of the executive arm, and we know who runs that section. Also, ICE didn’t legislate DACA, the rep senate did. ", "Nope. They were very bad people for putting him in this position.", "2014", "He could have gone back and reacquainted at anytime", "Many economists would disagree with you on that. \n\nAdditionally, I didn't say that immigration laws are bad. I said specific examples of enforcing immigration law are bad. Quite the difference. ", "I was brought to the US when I was 4. I didn't become a legal, permanent resident until I was 24. I paid taxes since I was 18, had a social security number that wasn't valid for employment (contradicting, right?), went to public schools, and lived a normal American life. I even had a legit drivers license. At times, I would forget I was different.\n\nThe system is fucked. Feel free to ask any questions if you want. At the end of the day, it all comes down to money.\n\nIf you don't have the money to pay for the services, you stay illegal. Every case is different, but from illegal to citizen, my entire process was about 20k", "Probly paid more taxes than trump.", "You make no effort to get your citizenship because you don't have to.\n\nUntil suddenly you do. And then this happens.", "I see what you did there.", "Uh.... no. This is solely, 100% on Trump and the Republican party. \n\nThis is their last fucking hurrah. They are doing so much damage that once the Democrats regain control in November, they will be consigned to political irrelevance for a very long time.", "Yes because he’s had the wife and kids for all of the 30 years that he’s been here illegally and had the opportunity to do that. ", "What a horrible country", "Probably should have said Latin American! But yes, I see the issue in my statement. ", "No, shithole is a word an edgy eighth grader uses. Nobody was ever saying these countries aren't in bad shape. It's the wording used. A stable genius should have a bigger vocabulary. The President should not be reducing countries to one word.", "Easily could have gotten his citizenship papers. Don’t make fucking excuses. If I rob a bank and then have a family, should I not be arrested when caught because I have a family? He’s an illegal immigrant. ", "It’s funny that you lash out at him because he has one of the most measured, sensible comments here. People who screech about “bootlickers” are usually the ones who are happy to make plenty of noise online but do zero in real life to create a change.", "Sure it's illegal -- but that doesn't change the fact that this is heartless and without any compassion towards his particular situation. Do you want to live in a society where the letter of the law always trumps the spirit of it? Do you think we're a better country for ripping apart a family? ", "Yeah, cuz they're illegal to begin with ", "Nah. It's the irony if it being done on MLK day, a day celebrating the fight against injustice.", "Why is I bullshit? I'm as far from a Republican as you can imagine but you have to have an immigration policy with teeth otherwise you have nothing, you might as well let everyone in. I'm 110 percent behind negotiating a deal that allows these people to stay in the country with their families but you gotta get tough on this and stop the flow of illegal immigrants into the country, it's a terrible security risk and it has a negative impact on actual citizens and legal residents. \n\nId like to see a reset where by we acknowledge that we fucked t\nhe dog on it for decades and give these people a pass to citizenship but you have to draw some kind of line and the difference is that the right disagrees with where it gets drawn", "Oh! So this was the guy that was holding the city back all these years! Phew, glad they cleared that up, I'm confident that the hundreds of other major and minor sociopolitical factors contributing to the economic downturn of Detroit will all work themselves out now that this one immigrant has been forcibly removed from his home and family.\n\nIf you deported literally every illegal immigrant in the country the benefits to those of us left wouldn't begin to touch the human tragedy that is forced deportation of non-dangerous peoples. America will never begin to recover until we take our own principles as a bastion of freedom and opportunity to heart.", "I mean yeah pretty much", "His parents cheated, blame them for putting him in this situation.", "I just can’t even with this crap. In what bizarre alternate reality is this poor guy or other people like him even tiny parts of the reason they they make the cars in Mexico now and the factories we do still have mostly use robots so have way fewer jobs?", "You mean evidence like in the article you didn’t read, you lazy know-it-all?", "Does this mean he’s worked without a SS number this whole time, cash payments not paying any ~~cash~~ tax?\nFrom my limited experience it’s very difficult to get any kind of decent paying job like that...?\n\n[e: fixed 2nd cash to tax)", "http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/record-135-billion-a-year-for-illegal-immigration-average-8075-each-25000-in-ny/article/2635757", "IRS gives undocumented immigrants a tax-id, which allows you to pay income tax. My mother paid income tax for 13 years while we were undocumented. The IRS doesn't care about your citizenship, and hell, most police didn't for a while. ", "ITT: believers of the just world hypothesis.", "So you’re equating the literal genocide of Native Americans to Trump not joining the Paris Accords? That’s just disrespectful and petty.", "So he should be prosecuted for the sins of his father? Should white peoples be made to pay repetitions for the sins of theirs?", "So a guy chose to remain in the country illegally and hope to not be deported rather than become a citizen? Then he chose to have kids here and subject them to the possible bullshit from his poor choice? I don’t feel bad for him at all.\n\nEdit: I understand the downvotes. I just don’t agree with you. The guy had an option for a path to American citizenship. He chose hanging out here, hiding, and starting a family.\n\nEdit: I was 35 years old when I had my son. I waited so long because I had several personal issues I needed to work out before I subjected a kid to them. It was easy to wait. I just didn’t make a kid until my plate was clear and my head was straight. This guy not only lived in a country illegally but he had kids in it because that’s how little he cared for his situation or his responsibility to his children. I really don’t feel bad for him. I hate it for his family, though.", "Ah yes, someone broke the law, let’s let them get away with it.", "So what? ", ">Put in the stupid amount of time it takes to legally immigrate to the US, which is a long, and therefore expensive process.\n\nHe's [barred from re-entering the U.S.](https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/three-and-ten-year-bars) in the next ten years, because he was here illegally for more than one year consecutively.\n\n", "Spoken like a true 14-year old edgelord.", "http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/record-135-billion-a-year-for-illegal-immigration-average-8075-each-25000-in-ny/article/2635757", "The same people that complain that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes are the same people that push for \"extreme vetting\" which makes it very difficult to get here legally. Paying taxes is a good way of notifying the government of your location. If you are here illegally, trying to do the right thing and pay your taxes could ruin your life.\n\nWe need open borders. Citizenship is still something they would need to earn. We should hand out green cards like candy on Halloween, anyone that wants to live here and is willing to follow our laws should be allowed to live here.", "\"On MLK Day\" as if that has any significance with this situation. MLK wasn't calling for equal rights of people who are here illegally.", "Still not true, the law has been enforced. They’ve deported people every year, hell Obama deported a ton of people. It’s like how virtually everyone speeds, but not everyone gets pulled over. How do you deport a person that you don’t know is there?", "Illegal immigrants should not be considered a minority population. They shouldn't be a part of the population.", "agreed. we should kick all the people implicated in the paradise papers out of this country once and for all. ", "That page has some shoddy reporting of figures. They include the total spending on teaching English to non-native speakers as an expense caused directly by illegal aliens. That's just wrong. It's also impossible to derive such a figure as schools don't track immigration status.", "?? That's the point I was trying to make, unless you meant to respond to someone else", "Don’t come here illegally? Solved. ", "How many of those years did he pay taxes", "> Dr. King never directly addressed the issue of illegal immigration, so your claims are speculation. \n\nAs are yours. He shouldn’t be part of this narrative at all. ", "I think that the political climate has distorted the public's view on Trump. \n\nHe hasn't really down a whole lot of anything, positive or negative, that really mattered. \n\nWhat would you say is the best and worst thing he has done so far?", "Berns was also corrupt, so there is that little bit of truth.\nJust follow his Florida dealings.\n---Edited for incorrect spelling and additional details.", "The version of the ACA that passed Nancy Pelosi's House had a public option and tons of other things that would have made for a significantly stronger socialized health-care system.\n\nBecause the Republicans were so completely unified that not a one even considered voting for it in the Senate, that meant that two conservative Democrats (and Independents) were able to strip that out or else they couldn't get to the supermajority of 60 votes.\n\nBlame Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman, almost exclusively. \n\nElizabeth Warren wasn't even in the Senate at the time. Why are you making these big sweeping statements when you're getting basic facts wrong?", "I'm sure it's purely a coincidence...", "To me, the law is not wrong. However, if the law is changed I will gladly accept the change. At the end of the day the law must be followed. ", "Wait, Trump actually did something other than shout populist rhetoric?", "Don't forget he's also a rapist. Maga?", "If you can't get a green card/legal status and don't have an SSN how do you pay income taxes? I don't mean this as a snarky statement I'm actually curious since people keep saying he pays taxes. EDIT: The article that has been getting linked in here a lot also says that but doesn't explain how. It is rather confusing.", "If you were brought here as a child you should be given amnesty; end of story. Be empathetic and use common sense. ", "Everyone who lives in the US pays taxes. Everyone. In fact, they (illegal aliens) [pay billions every year](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/). \n\nKey piece:\n\n>They also help fund public schools and local government services by paying sales and property taxes like any other resident. This added up to about $10.6 billion in state and local taxes in 2010, according to an analysis by the institute.", "Coming from a refugee family myself, I say good riddance. 30 fucking years dawg.. give the spot to someone who earns it ", "But he's illegal.... Per the law.\n\nSurprised that the law it's getting enforced?\n\nHow much money in taxes did he evade?\n\nAll in all I feel bad for him that his family brought him over to suffer such consequences. It was only a matter of time. If you break the law you will get caught.", "ICE is finally not being lazy...", "Don't really care", "Because he didn't come here of his own free will? Like the story says, he came here when he was ten. Reading is key.", "Something similar just happened to a very good man in my area, too. A wife, two kids, and a baby daughter on the way. His father brought him here illegally when he was 11 years old. He worked at a nearby hospital, and was the sole provider for his family. He is being deported back to Haiti I believe, where he will likely go to prison for a long while to serve time for his father's crimes he fled from. He's a great man, I feel awful for him and his family. They'll likely never see each other again.", ">and a spotless record\nIs there an article? \n\nWe need a merit based system. Buddy has been here since he was 2 and has a engineer degree but is having a difficult time getting it. He has a work permit luckily.", "Are Mexicans a race? If so, what race are Americans?", "So what should he do?", "Wow America is a shithole. It used to be a beacon of hope now it's just scummy", "I do feel bad for him. Sins of the father and all of that, but if his parents really did care for him then they would’ve either had him in America, or found a way to enter legally. If they followed the rules this wouldn’t have happened. ", "And not once in 30 years did it occur to him to try and get his status squared away legally so this would never be an issue", "I agree. It isn't right that he had 30 years to work toward changing his status and he didn't.", "Yup has nothing to do with both sides of the aisle. Woefully ignorant remark. ", "audios ", "r/thathappened", "Exactly. Just because he has a family does not mean he is above the law. It’s sad it happened but we need immigration laws ", "Don’t care. You’ve been here 30 years, you’ve had time to study and become a citizen. 30 years. I don’t care if it’s Christmas Day it’s been 30 years. ", "I believe what has actually happened is we've Made America Hate Brown People Again. Doesn't fit on hat though, I guess that's why that slogan wasn't used.", "Is he 10 years old now? or has he had 30 years to get his affairs in order and figure it out?", "It's not like the exact same thing wasn't happening under Obama", "Net is an interesting metric since he's talking about a minority which can be overshadowed by the \"majority\" in a net figure. Net gains/losses specifically for the black community or whoever would be relevant. \n\n", "It appears that these folks will often use a fake or stolen SSN. Their employers still file regular taxes, so all of the normal paycheck deductions still happen (including income tax). The illegal immigrant isn't ever eligible for retirement benefits, so they pay into a system that they can never use. \n\nAs for people that aren't on payroll ...\n\n> Workers who are paid illegally in cash can still pay their taxes with an Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN), filing a return just like any other taxpayer; having a history of paying taxes can be an important step in securing legal status. In 2010, about 3 million people paid over $870 million in income taxes using an ITIN, and according to the IRS, ITIN filers pay $9 billion in payroll taxes annually. (The IRS says it does not share ITIN information with immigration authorities.)\n\n[Source.](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/)\n", "lol look at his username, obviously unhinged typical redditor", "Ya", "Maybe he won't talk to you because you didn't even argue against the point he was trying to make. He said it adversely hurt the minority community not the entire US economy.", "Then you leave and come back on a visa, this proses is also a lot easier wen you have a family on the us ", "The question is not a request for permanent residence, its whether or not you can apply for a green card if you entered with a student visa, which yes you can, but as you said you first need to change status, but it is still possible.", "> There was no path to citizenship since he was already an undocumented immigrant.\n\nThat's very misleading. You can say there was no \"good\" path, but there certainly was a path if he returned to his home country and applied. Having a wife would very much help.", "The real dicks are the parents for putting him in that position, honestly.\n\nNo matter how sad it is, you can't just illegally enter the country and expect to stay.", "Is it really injustice? Can't just let anyone enter the US whenever they want. ", "You’re a Martian. ", "because the IRS wants its money and doesn't care how you got it, there are sections in the tax code for reporting stolen income and stuff like that.", "Good", "As I said above:\n\nThe version of the ACA that passed Nancy Pelosi's House had a public option and tons of other things that would have made for a significantly stronger socialized health-care system.\n\nBecause the Republicans were so completely unified that not a one even considered voting for it in the Senate, that meant that two conservative Democrats (and Independents) were able to strip that out or else they couldn't get to the supermajority of 60 votes.\n\nHad the GOP been anything but hyper-recalcitrant and willing to improve a bill and vote on it, that wouldn't have been a problem. ", "This is extremely disheartening.", "A lot of these people are also afraid that once they leave laws will change and they wont be able to return. Also since they are often parents leaving would be difficult for their families financially", "Had how much time to file the proper paperwork???", "This is fucking insanity... END ALL BORDERS NOW!", "This is the consequence of tyranny.", "Isn't it easier if somebody sponsors you? I remember my cousins being sponsored to come over. We sent 2 people at first, they sponsored their siblings, then everyone sponsored each other to come here. ", "Do you actually believe this, are you trying to be funny, or are you using hyperbole to attempt to get others to agree with you?", "The correct choice of action would be to look at each case individually and see if they are a net positive or not to the area they live in. This guy is a working, contributing member of society. Not a criminal, not a rapist or murderer. Hes been here so long that deporting is is unethical. Lets *make a system to give him a pathway to citizenship because this is the kind of person we want here. But you keep playing the its all or nothing card. The law also used to say you could own black people, so we changed it. It used to say that blacks and whites cant marry, so we changed it. It used to say that being ~~Japanese~~ \"asian\" looking and an officer having a bad day allows us to take everything from you and force you into an internment camp with no due process for years on end, so we changed it. The law changes and we have been trying to change this one for a long damned time but because of fucking asshats like trump who are uneducated backwards racist fucktards who vote other uneducated backwards racist fucktards into congress we can fucking change it. Legal does not mean right.", "What the fuck \n\nEdit\nWtf as in..fuck Trump and his bitch ass racist policies. And fuck any person who agrees this shit is ok. \n\nWtf is going on with America and why must we hate anything that isn't white and straight", "Uh yeah. He’s an illegal immigrant. Having a family doesn’t mean you’re above the law. ", "The problem with that is he probably has not paid taxes. Unless using a false identity. Paying taxes when you're undocumented will get you deported very quickly.", "> Not sure if it's apply -> leave -> come back.\n> \n> Or leave -> apply -> come back.\n\nI think it's the latter. Wife has H1B. If it expires and is not renewed by her employer before we apply for permanent resident visa, she'd have to return home in order to begin the permanent resident application process.\n\nSince we applied already, I think she could petition for a stay while the application is being processed if her h1b were to lapse. Even through marriage, there's no guarantee. Scary shit for us.\n\nBut from what we read, if she were to remain more than 1 year after an expired work visa (without my sponsorship application pending), she would be in violation of immigration laws and be barred for 10 years or something like that, same as this guy is now. ", "As much as I hate to say it, you're right.\n\nDeport him as the law states and work on getting him back into the US legally. And then work on changing citizenship laws.", "well you cant deport a legal citizen of their own single country. just sayin.", "> without having to pay into the system. Yet receives benefits!\n\nStop lying.", "Laws can be changed, making illegal behaviors legal. Until that point, break the law and suffer the consequences.", "Yes its ideal to not be currently illegally immigrated while trying to legally immigrate, I think.", "But he is here illegally. Do you want to get rid of immigration laws?\n\nIf so fair enough. But how can you ask some to follow the laws while others come illegally?", "yes, it's his parent's fault. he was a child when they came. so let the guy stay.\n\nyou're kind of saying it's okay to punish children for their parent's crimes.", "If you think that logic means that conclusion, you don't understand the issue.", "With what SSN?", "Get fucked ", "Yes, but now he is 39. What stopped him from going back to Mexico anytime in the last 20 years?", "> Even if true that does not mean that illegal immigration is a net good for the country and those in it.\n\nDetails then. What else you taking about? You’re the second one to say something but won’t provide details \n\n>Maybe he is, but to be fair, it was an anti-illegal immigration post, not anti-immigration. To lump legal and illegal immigration together would also make you \"full of shit\" so I'll assume its an honest mistake.\n\n\nHe’s posting shit all over this sub. And it’s clearly anti brown immigration \n", "Probably because the rise of social media has surrounded you with narratives that frighten you. Get off social media, and America is a great place to live.", "Dr. King was a staunch opponent of illegal immigration, seeing it as a direct threat to African Americans seeking work.", "Some illegal immigrants pay taxes using an ITIN, but are not eligible for a refund due to their lack of a SSN", "Yeah, he would have to stop breaking the law and try the process that millions of legal immigrants go through. He doesn’t get a free pass just because he already broke the law ", "First off, its fucked up you think drinking and driving is a normal thing.\n\nSecond, I missed the part where the average US citizen is illegally entering the country.\n\nAnd finally, its a lot more serious to be here illegally, undocumented, and not paying taxes than it is to occasionally speed. And its not like speeding goes unenforced, nor do people make a big kerfuffle when a cop pulls someone over for speeding.", "I don’t get how he doesn’t have a green card because I’m assuming he’s married and also if he’s live in the country for 30 years how has he not earn his citizenship or at least apply for one?", "He had plenty of time to become a citizen. Buh-Bye 👋🏻", "Sorry", "What country in the world, after a certain time frame, grants illegal immigrants legal status?", "As a European, this reminds me of the stories I was told of the 1930s", "I am so done\n\nSo are you moving to Haiti?", "illegal is illegal, sorry for you messed up views.", "First off, its fucked up you think drinking and driving is a normal thing.\n\nSecond, I missed the part where the average US citizen is illegally entering the country.\n\nAnd finally, its a lot more serious to be here illegally, undocumented, and not paying taxes than it is to occasionally speed. And its not like speeding goes unenforced, nor do people make a big kerfuffle when a cop pulls someone over for speeding.", "[Story](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2018/01/15/jorge-garcia-daca-deported-mexico-immigration/1033296001/)", "He was brought over when he was 10 years old. It’s fine we can’t take everyone in the world but why specifically deport someone who never came here by choice, was here 30 years and has been a highly productive tax payer during that time? You don’t find it particularly cruel at all to break him up from his family?\n\nIt’s not just one political party that disagrees with this, the vast majority of Americans do. There’s a reason DACA is relatively bipartisan despite far right disagreements with it.", "> It's not possible to apply for a green card while in the US (\"adjust status\") if you entered illegally.\n\nA friend of mine overstayed his tourist visa for 20 years, then got married to a US citizen, and got a green card....", "That’s why you have to obey the law. It sucks but that’s the way it is.", "My god this sub is pure political propaganda now. Save this bullshit for r/politics or the circle jerk of r/worldnews. I just want to look at pictures that aren't dripping with agenda.", "Yeah, fuck that ten-year-old kid! He should’ve known at age ten* that he was doing something illegal and chosen to do something else!\n\nSeriously, you say he was “here illegally” as though laws are always great and have good and intended effects.", "He's had 30 years to figure it out, he's not 10. Its his parents fault for putting him in this situation. ", "We have this problem on a much smaller scale in Canada, and really only in pockets that, luckily, don't have much electoral weight. \n\nThe Conservatives always make it harder when elected after years of Liberal 'openness'. But we have our own immigration issues, like an American expat with a prescription to oxy held in a prison without basic rights. Pretty sure Australia has similar issues with immigration detention facilities. The border is by no means open. ", "\nIIRC, that's one of the largest forms of identity theft: undocumented aliens using others' SSNs on forms. \n\nCall me cynical, but I'm willing to bet exceedingly few do it to pay their proper share of federal/state taxes.", "What does any country origin family deportation have to do with MLK", "deporting an american ", "The problem is that we would need to amend INA to do that.\n\nThe only chance that would ever happen, is if Democrats agree to a border wall funding.\n\nAnd that won't happen, because Mexicos government lobbies insane amounts and pays hundreds of millions of dollars to prevent us from putting any substantial funding there.", "Last president had the fucking run of the reigns.. Did he make it a merit based system or try to fix the problem at all? Nope. ", "That's pretty much the entire purpose of a judge you silly cunt, otherwise there would be no judge and the jury would simply decide guilty/not and then use whatever sentence is on the books.", "30 years... jesus christ what did he think they would say 'aww sheesh man just take it\" ", "This. 30 years and counting to be a citizen, there is no excuse.", "I thought they couldn't deport if their kids were born in the usa", "He has a wife and kids that are US citizens. That is a path.", "TL:DR, broke the law and the bill came due.", "You're so generous. Now ask yourself again, where would you stay? You've clearly lived in the USA your whole life, would you know the first step to living outside the country?", "Spare me that. \n\nLaws are supposed to protect us and seem reasonable. What about this seems reasonable?", "It's the law", "He'll be barred from reentering for 10 years because he entered illegally. At which point, he'll be subject to the immigration process which may take as much as another 10 years. ", "Your feelings are not an argument.", "please find one you do and fucking go to it", "But why male models??", "30 years to become a citizen boo hoo", "Agreed that we should have a way to make them citizens. ", "good point. well with todays tech if they really wanted to i'm sure they could. the NSA knows how long hes been here i would wager. face recognition voice recognition and whatnot. i mean these guys have jobs and facebook pages and stuff they could piece it together if necessary. sounds like alot of work though. ", "He wasn’t 10 for 30 years. ", "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail-order_bride", "He was already an illegal immigrant as of age 10 because of his parents and therefore could not apply for citizenship at all. ", "He had 30 years to become a citizen...", "Except for serial killers. I don't want them moving into my neighborhood. Best way to keep them out is called a vetting process. Best way to make sure a vetting process works is to enforce it.", "Can confirm, husband adjusted status to CR from F-1 (out of status)", "Why must he leave his family? If I were deported I'd want to take my family with me. Start a new life. Regardless of the feels involved, life's harder on you if you break the law.", "They were a little busy working on overhauling the entire medical insurance system.\n\nAnd they had a supermajority in name only, Lieberman wasn't really part of the Democratic party as much as he was an opportunist looking out for himself.", "That's pretty funny. I believe I have heard that part before.", "You have to wait 10 years to get a pardon if you’ve been in the the USA illegally. He grew up here and more than likely didn’t have any choice when they brought him here. ", "George, is that you? ;-)\n\nEDIT: seems no one gets the [George Carlin reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w15OS2PdCKo). ", "Nothing. That is the problem. He would have to move out of the country to another foreign country where he has nowhere to stay to start the months-long application process of becoming a US resident. ", "Not true. If you're an independent contractor it's up to you to file and pay taxes on your earnings. ", "It's disgraceful. Our government here in Norway recently deported an African man who had immigrated, but lied about something minor on his application (don't remember why). He had lived here for 27 years, had learned the language, gotten a job, basically done everything we expect of our new citizens, and he seemed a good example for other African immigrants. He may have lied, but unless that was to hide something heinous I don't think it should get him kicked out. Sometimes the best solution for everyone is to make an exception. The man spent the majority of his life here, he has nothing in his original country...\n\nI hope things work out for this guy and his family. ", "You should try it sometime. ", "But why male models??", "Not come here illegally basically, which is damn near impossible unless you have a relative here or have some marketable in-demand (white collar) skill that the company willing to hire you can prove that they can't find an American that's qualified (or willing) to take the position. Or you can win the visa lottery at the US embassy, but that's also pretty unlikely.", "He probably paid taxes. Many deportees are flagged by ICE when they file a tax return. So, while its convenient to assume that they’re deported because they’ve done something wrong, obeying the law is one of the many things that fucks them over. ", "It was an analogy. He’s not literally comparing the severity of sneaking into Disney Land, to the severity of sneaking into the fucking United States lol.", "He’s an imbecile. Like all the liberal minorities getting mad about it", "Look at the process. It’s not fun. You essentially have to go to Juarez (you don’t want to go to Juarez) and apply to immigrate to the US. At the same time, you have to ask them to please forgive you for entering the country illegally when you had no choice in the matter. If they don’t forgive you, you are stuck in Mexico for 5 years until you can reapply. (Men are less likely to be “forgiven” for this than women are.)\n\nMy friend’s wife went through this process. Her parents brought her over when she was just a little kid (less than 5) and she considered US her home. She married my friend, an Army veteran, and had a kid with him. She decided to get legal when she was pregnant with their second kid. She was down in Mexico for about 5-6 months...", "Ah yes because people can just plan to leave their lives for an undefined amount of time. Especially poor people. What you’re saying is incredibly impractical and nonsensical.", "I hope at some point you're torn away from your life and loved ones for 10+ years. \n\nGuy wasn't hurting anyone. Douche.", "What? Name some examples. I'm a republican and I don't give a fuck what color they are. Come here legally. We have immigration laws for reason(and they're already too lax as it is, the population is skyrocketing).", "A person jaywalking breaks the law too. Since the time his family came into the country, a lot of things have happened, and circumstances have changed. His entry was most likely not a choice he made either. So a certain amount of discretionary decision-making must be applied.\n\nNow, I don't know this guy deserves to stay... who knows? But there are many who do, and are probably being deported.\n\nThere's a reason why DACA was created, and it isn't a free pass. It has a double edge to it. It's a humane policy that allows very specific upstanding individuals to remain in the country because they are productive members of American society.\n\nAmerica has a lot of immigration, the highest amount actually, but it isn't exactly \"overcrowded\" (considering size at least, and economy). The problem is that the U.S. refused to adapt its policy at the same rate that immigration rates rose.\n\nOne can't export American culture, and then not expect people to try and buy it from the source.", "People act like the status of being illegal is this huge thing. It's a civil offense. There are thousands of white collar workers who are more active criminals than illegal immigrants, and who do far more damage to our economy.", "> he was 10 years-old by undocumented family members\n\nYou mean illegal immigrants? ", "So it sounds like the law is being enforced as written?\n\nThis is excellent news. We cannot ignore that by being here, he was breaking the law - regardless of his family etc. Laws are laws and exceptions to laws create very slippery slopes. Either the law needs to be repealed, rewritten or it needs to be upheld. ICE is just doing their job. Besides, whatever country he came from illegally isn't a shithole right? His parents DEFINITLEY did not leave it because it was a shit-hole because that's not a thing.... So it shouldn't be a big deal to go back.\n\nAnyway this upholds the law? Trump/ICE didn't write DACA, he's just enforcing it - finally.\n\nDownvote all you want, facts don't care about your feelings though - the outrage here is a poorly written law was implemented by the Obama admin that never should have existed in the first place, and now it needs to be enforced...the rules are pretty clear on who is covered by DACA and for what period of time. DEFERRED action, does not mean permanent deferral. ", "Welcome to our stupid fucking administration.", "If the president can say it, so can you. \n\nAlso, this is the fucking internet, cussing is allowed.", "Don’t do illegal stuff. Problem solved. ", "Good. Is all I have to say ", "Word. But did he pay taxes for the past 30 years? I wish I could live her 30 years tax free.", "Apparently being here illegally for more than a year gives you a 10 year ban on coming back. Additionally it can take several years to come here legally.\n\nIt's easy to say he should do things legally but he was a child when he was brought here, he never did anything wrong in the first place. You shouldn't punish a child for their parents' mistakes.", "So do the people in Israel and Palestine but the wall there has reduced illegal immigration across it by 99%.", "Just the application fees alone go well into the thousands for someone in his position, and he would definitely need a lawyer. In his position it is honestly quite likely that he will never be able to return to the United States. He will likely have to wait 10 years before he will even be allowed to start the process, which will take a few more years and by then there is no guarantee that the marriage that would be the basis of his application will have survived.", "This level of ignorance is hilarious. Get a job first before talking about taxes. Because you clearly have no clue how the system works.", "> has no history of a criminal record\n\nI mean technically now he has. If you commit a crime but get away with it for 30 years you can't run with the defense that you never had a criminal record.", ">Start learning the sport of hockey and put a Canadian flag on your luggage.\n\nPlease don't. Canadians are looked at differently from Americans internationally for a reason. Don't stain the international image of Canadians because you want your shitty behavior to be tolerated slightly better.", "Can you imagine trying to restart in a country you dont know, at 40, being torn away from your family?", "This is this owns man fault. If he knew he was an illegal he should have filed for immigration. ", "Being here illegally is a misdemeanor. The fact that he's illegal doesn't mean he lacks an ITIN or has a fake/stolen SSN. \n\n[Both cases are relatively common.](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/)", "\nPaying sales tax is a drop in the bucket compared to incme tax though.", "Yeah, how dare him not leave at 10 years old. And then how dare he not leave as an adult to another country he probably knows nothing about at that point. Luckily we have big awesome people like you who wouldn't pussy out and aren't just talking out of their asses about problems they've never had to deal with. ", "He would have had to stay gone for 10 years as far as I understand. If you had a family in the US and had never lived in Mexico in your adult life and don't know anyone or have job prospects in Mexico, would you leave your family in the US while you spent 10 years in Mexico trying to support them financially in a country you don't know hoping that you won the lottery get back in?", "Sure you can. Stuff them on a plane and kick them the fuck out.", "If I was abandoned in a forest naked without any resources then I would come back leading a pack of wolves 🐺 ", "America. Where the First Lady entered on an improper visa but was allowed to stay, because money. ", "He gets to legally apply when he returns to mexico and will get it approved. Heaven forbid America actually enforces it's laws instead of letting things slide.", "This makes me sick to my stomach. The worst part is is that there’s nothing I can do to help this man or his family. ", "Well what would you have them do? Immigrants built America, but most were legal. No matter how much I want to empathize with him, I still can’t get past that fact that he broke the law to enter the country. Hopefully he is able to apply for citizenship decently quickly.", "Last time you put gas in your car did the clerk check to see if you were a citizen before they charged you. I see you are a citizen iAmScuba so i need to charge you the proper taxes, if you were illegal i would not charge you the taxes.........you know cause illegals dont pay taxes. property tax? nope illegals dont pay those either, sales tax? Stop with that tired they dont pay taxes line, ", "The amount of people in this thread who are exhibiting zero compassion towards this man and his family is alarming. It's frightening to think that many people in our society have absolutely no ability to view circumstances in tandem with the law. At the end of the day, a family has been destroyed and a couple kids will be fatherless because of this administration's gung-ho execution of the letter of the law. ", "Well seeing how he was a child when he was brought here, presumably doesn't have a criminal record, and has been a tax paying citizen for 30 years he should have the ability to legally apply for citizenship. This shouldn't be a difficult decision", "The abundance of white illegal immigrants, yes.", "If part of my job was to tear an innocent family apart I would quit my job. If you willingly do this without quitting in protest, you’re an asshole.", "It's his fault for never even attempting to become legal during the 30 years he spent in the US. Stop looking for a circle jerk of virtue signaling", "I support the process behind the removal of illegal aliens. But I truly wish there was a way to expedite a process to legalize upstanding members of the US community. Gang members, convicted felons, and other of that ilk can die in a fire for all I care. It's just sad that he hadn't chosen to do anything for 30 years and now his choice affects more than just him, but his children too.", "Daily reminder that people who try to control the words you use are for concepts are trying to shape the way you think in their favor. \n\nThere's a reason why marketing and propaganda puts so much focus on word choice and will deliberately try to change the words people use for concepts. It's because it works.", "\nTIL!", "It’s a retarded-ass analogy", "Yeah man that ten year old totally knew what was going on", "I'm getting a Berkeley vibe from him. unhinged hate.", "How would you feel if suddenly somebody told you that you were being deported? I know you're incapable of empathy with these people because you've all managed to thoroughly dehumanize them and you think that you're somehow more deserving to be in America than they are but you aren't. \n\nYou aren't better than these people. Pull your ignorant head out of your ignorant ass hombre ", "People like him shouldn't be deported. Fuck this administration.", "Only speaking for myself, but at 10 years old, I had exactly zero say in where my parents, and subsequently myself, lived. IMO, because he was brought here as a young child, he is being punished for the actions of others. What do you think? ", "It's a ridiculous connection that has more to do with people trying to connect MLK to their narrative than actual examination of what he stood for...\n\nThe problems MLK fought against, and the messages he advocated still hold massive relevance today. But it doesn't mean we can just cite his name whenever we feel bad about something.", "Yeah, DACA or not this is a clear gap in the system. He’s married to an American citizen and father to American citizens. He should be able to stay here. ", "he can come back legally now, no big deal ", "Omg I know right how can we enforce laws we are so ignorant!!", "I plan to :)", "Exactly, i don’t see why his lack of planning makes this news. ", "Then why is no one blaming his parents for setting him up for this colossal failure", "For all intents and purposes, America is his home country.", "Wow how much of a upper middle class bubble do you have to live in to believe this shit. \n\nwew", "Have you even read any of the other comments made about how there's no option for him to earn his citizenship?", "This is not justice. The U.S. is this guy's only home. Deporting him helps no-one. Why the fuck can't we change these horrible laws?", "No, he’s the asshole for being illegal, not following the path to possible citizenship, and then having the brains to bring children in on his bullshit choices. He knew it was coming eventually. He was here illegally.", "see ya", "\"Ignorance is bliss, eh?\" \n\nPot, meet kettle. He'd like to discuss your hue.", "My daughter, getting her graduate degree in communications with a focus on rhetoric and debate, would call that a successful use of her life's work. ;-)", "no the burden of proof is on the original claim. prove she is here illegally. ", "No you don't. It sounds great when you claim to be an open and nurturing nation. \"Come on in everybody we're open to all!\" The problem is that reality happens. Countries can't accept everyone (especially when they can't support themselves) and Canada is finding that out.\n\nhttps://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/world/canada/canada-refugees-immigration.html", "As long as they don't go to live in the shittiest part of Ciudad Juárez or start dealing drugs, then yes, it is quite safe for his family to come here", "How much do an equal amount of Americans contribute in taxes?\n\nIs it more or less?", "10 year olds shouldn't be illegal. This is the entire argument behind allowing DACA recipients to stay.", "He's not legally documented in our current government and is lucky he stayed that long. #savelegalimmigrationnotillegal", "Don't worry not blaming you, I just enjoy swearing online. ", "The Mexican should feel honored to have such a challenge ahead of him. ", "Been here for 30 years and hasn't registered for residence?? Why the fuck not??? ", "Good luck! Me and husband just got his two year green card in the mail a few weeks ago. If you have any questions definitely let me know ", "> then it's a difficult, slow, expensive process with zero guarantees\n\nTough shit, it's like that every where else. ", "Accept and edit your mistake and it would lend some credence to the real point you're trying to make. Right now, to your opposition, you're just going to come off as a typical ignorant person who hates foreigners and can't be assed to tell any of them apart. If you want to gain traction with your opposition, you should appear more knowledgeable.", "This point cannot be overstated. So many people think illegal immigrants don't pay taxes. The contrary is true. They pay into a system that they will NEVER reap the benefits of. \n\nEdit- For people not familiar with taxes...it is withheld PRIOR to them getting a check. ", "Obama actually set the record in deportations. So much so, that he had to scale back. It’s not just Republicans. ", "Human rights?", "You have to go back. Also, more propaganda on /r/pics", "What about marrying without intent?", "Bro fuck off. Is this how you debate with people? Ad hominem attacks? ", "Yes there is. Send them your paycheck if your so inclined. ", "I don't understand how he's illegal? He married an American? ", "He spent 30 years being in the US illegally... 30 YEARS. He should have gotten a citizenship in various ways by now. He didn't, he's responsible for his doing. ", "May I also add that the same law also exists for many other countries.\n\nI have many friends and family who every year or so must leave their country of residence to even just a neighboring country for 1 day to re-apply for their visas. They also all understand that they may be required at any moment to leave the country.\n\nOf course this man's situation is a very sad one and I'm not very educated on how the laws could differ to help cases such as his without creating any more opportunities to cheat the system, I just don't see how America's immigration laws differ so much. I've witnessed random sweeps of bars in Europe where I had to show my passport than once.", "The government gives you a number (TIN) so that you can pay taxes.", "Why remember this one incident? These deportations didn’t magically start January 20th last year - they’ve been going on under Republican and Democrat administrations for decades. Hell, if I remember correctly, the Obama Administration deported the largest number of illegal immigrants ever.", "other countries deport people who live there for a number of years illegally too. when I used to live in jp i saw Filipino families on the news in this situation", "I can finally sleep at night knowing my space dad didn’t die in vain", "There are consequences for all those actions\n\n\n1. Speeding: possible fines or imprisonment loss of license. Depending on severity and frequency\n\n2. DUI: loss of license, probation, jail time. Depending on frequency sanctions can be harsher. \n\n3. Illegal Immigration: Deportation. \n\n\nPretty simple. ", "Why don’t you just say “Then he should have left his home.” ", "DACA was an executive order, just expand it. Oh wait the President of the United States is a racist.", "Yes, it seems the law has no compassion for the children in your cautionary tale.", "There’s also an automatic 10 year bar. So he would essentially have to leave the country for 10 years before attempting to apply legally. I am undocumented myself, when I turned 18 I sought out an immigration lawyer to do things the right way and was faced with the reality that I would have to leave to the country I was brought from at the age of 5, and live there for 10 years, I have never been back to Mexico since I was brought over and did not have the guts to essentially go back to a country that is foreign to me and leave behind, family friends and the community I grew up with. ", "There are other types of taxes - sales, property, etc", "Sure, that's mostly who DACA is meant to protect, right?", "It's a head scratcher even for an American.", "Have you ever thought that maybe we should change our laws so things like this don’t have to happen? Laws aren’t morally right just because they exist.", "What does this have to do with anything, I'm against this too.", "Fuck you", "Nothing. People are just trying to push that MLK was for illegal immigrants now.", "Technically its only 22 years", "Technically and legally, yes. He could have left any time after he realized there was no path to legal status.\n\nRealistically and sensibly, no. The whole setup is dumb as all fuck.\n\nOne of my uncles is illegal and it ain't for lack of trying. The problem is that trying just puts a target on your back. Agencies like ICE love them some low-hanging fruit.", "Oh shut the hell up", "deporting an illegal alien. Real americans abide by american laws. ", "It’s [not always possible](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/fiance-marriage-visa-book/chapter11-1.html) to stay and become a citizen under current law.", "I too am curious.", "MLK fought to have laws changed. The point is laws can be unjust regardless of your opinion of them. I'm sure I already know what you opinion is though.\n\nThis isn't some hokey cowboy show from the 50s. Fuck all this \"break the law deal with the consequences\" bullshit", "Well at a minimum you need to be able to speak French or English, neither of which are a requirement for entry into the US. It is objectively more difficult in Canada ", "So a 10 year old can become a criminal? What was he supposed to do, move back to the country he originally came from at age 18 with nothing and start over from scratch? ", "Y'all are some dipshits. People love to talk about how easy it is to do it the right way, as if any of you would be willing to leave your homeland and your family and your job, post up in a strange place for a few years.", "Does he just get on a plane and go back to Mexico? Is anyone waiting for him? Is he literally just gonna show up and hopefully get a hotel to stay in for the night? ", "Good riddance. Bye bye!", "good question, what IS* the point of having a border?", "Unfortunately these kinds of emotional arguments don’t work on conservatives, their answer will always be “illegal is illegal”. It’s sad but the political reality.", "Do you seriously think that you after living your entire life in the US, at 20, would pack up and move to Mexico, leaving behind everything and everyone you have ever known, because of something your parents did when you were a child? Just leave everything and hope against hope you can come back? Do you seriously think you would do that and that is a fair thing to be asked of you?", "I feel like not enough people understand this. ", "You wouldn't sign up for the job in the first place", "Why did he not go through the process of becoming a citizen for 30 years?", "Get out your feelings buddy. PS go change your tampon ", "i didn’t expect you to walk into that one so thoroughly. Thank you for defeating your own argument. ", "Last. Could have done the process ", "I'm not saying you are wrong, but when should we ignore the laws?", "That's a myth. Canada allows more immigrants per capita each year than almost anywhere.\n\n(https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/01/26/511625609/for-a-stark-contrast-to-u-s-immigration-policy-try-canada)", "Yes that's correct. This is the issue that a group of both Republicans and Democrats have tried to fix for almost 15 years with the DREAM Act, but the bill has been shot down every time it has been reintroduced. ", "How did he get here? He needs to remedy that ASAP ", "This just isn’t right. We should be ashamed.", "U mean illegal. ", "When you reply to me like a dick by saying, \"ok, keep telling them it's impossible!\" then I will reply to you like a dick. \n\nIf you don't like people treating you like a dick, then don't act like a dick.", ">\tAnd so would literally hundreds of millions if not billions of others.\n\nNo. No they wouldn’t, if just for the logistical reason; it’d be impossible for that many people to 1) illegally enter this country and 2) be able to enter the country in the first place since the US is separated by the vast majority of the world by two large oceans.", "lol ok", "I would argue that was a unique situation. The other country being Cuba and all. ", "I wish citizenship by right of soil got repealed so those kids could be deported with his father. Its a dusty relic from when we were a colonial country with hardly any infrastructure or census capability. That and it just doesnt seem right to just deport the dad and not the kids too", "Although they can pay income tax, and they do pay sales tax. If anyone is taking advantage of the system it's the employers who get to skip on their own payroll taxes and avoid any liability or workman's comp claims.", "I don't have it in front of me but I have statistical analysis from the US govt stating that even legal immigrants are a zero sum. your economists are operating from flawed premises.", "And this administration is equally bad for destroying this family.", "Very often those laws are changed through people breaking them and the people supporting them. Just like the people in my original list. Maybe if you were more well read on our history you'd know that. You aren't required to support the law I support what's right first and don't just blindly support every law.\n\nDo you have the same idea about Rosa Parks because she broke the law? Did she also deserve to suffer the consequences or should the people have been their to support her from a corrupt government?", "> what if you entered on a tourist/student visa?\n\nThey're both non-immigrant visas, so you're unable to adjust status directly.\n\nF-1 visa holders, could potentially find an employer to sponsor a visa for them, but by applying for labor certification, you're expressing immigrant intent and no longer eligible for an F-1 visa, so you'd have to leave on expiration of the current visa.\n\nThat's assuming no overstay.\n\nIf you've overstayed a non-immigrant visa, you're most likely not going to be eligible to adjust status, even if you're potentially eligible for permanent residence.\n\nInstead, you'd have to leave the country for an interview at a consular post. There you'd find out that, if you'd overstayed your visa by more than 180 days, but less than a year, you were ineligible for admission for 3 years. If you overstayed by more than a year, you're ineligible for admission for 10 years.", "The DACA program is meant to be such a path for people but it doesn't cover everyone.", "It might need more than money...I know a multimillionaire tech exec from India who was deported 2-3 months ago due to difficulty in extending his visa or applying for work visa, etc...he had a lawyer working diligently, but still was deported.\n\nThe dude is far from the drug dealing, rapist, homicidal image of the people who we say these repeals are intended for.", "Everyone on earth would agree with you, but some people demand the instant gratification of letting him stay, rewarding people who setup these tragic circumstances. Some of us demand that we enforce our laws to make situations like this less likely to happen to begin with.", "What article? I see a picture. I don't need to find sources for you guys. But please, enlighten me. I'd love to learn more.\n\nAnd if he was paying taxes, and didn't do anything else to provoke a deportation, good for him, but he sadly was still here illegally. I don't like the situation, but its the law. ", "You're being willfully obtuse to fit this to your own narrative. MLK Day is a symbol of the equality of all peoples and of America's commitment to its values of freedom and opportunity for all, and deportation of non-criminal immigrants spits in the face of that legacy.", "Sometimes laws are stupid and should be disregarded. Like the law that's destroying a family right now by having a father spend life in prison for homicide.\n", "Better to plan the bad thing then to have it thrust upon you. ", "I'm pro-immigration, just to clarify. But MLK did fight for something. To apply his name and message to every scenario we feel something bad is happening is to make his message meaningless.\n\nAlso, your second paragraph is an exercise in mental gymnastics.", "We have laws friend. His job could of gone to one of the millions of unemployed Americans already here.\n\nBut I know, your type doesn't care about them. ", "Definitely on anything he bought and possibly on income. For all you know hes paid more taxes than you", "Must not be worth it then if it's too difficult or slow. Find somewhere else! ", "she never tried to vote? how the hell do you not know if you are a citizen or not.", "Unless you're Melania Trump then everything is legal.", "If your parents sneak you into Disneyland with out paying, do you just let the child stay because they didn’t know or do you send them back so they can pay for admission like all the other children?", "> Once an adult he had the chance to leave the country and return legally.\n\nWhich would take years. years of having his life turned upside down, no stability, no contacts, hell do we even know if he speaks Spanish?\n\nBut yes I'm sure that years in a foreign country would be so easy to deal with, all for the crime of being brought here when he was 10.", "That's not the case. There's unfortunately plenty of ignorance on both sides. The problem (in my eyes) is that if you do that across the board, you end up incentivizing people who couldn't get in otherwise to take that route. If you're going to return back with \"well don't do it across the board\" than that is something that was already being done through DACA.", "You're right. At age 18, having lived here for 8 years and knowing only the USA as his life, he should have gone back to his country of birth and hoped to get lucky on an entry VISA. That's what you would have done in his shoes, right?", "Again, he was brought at age 10 with his parents. You can't have an influx of people becoming ten years old and having their parents bring them. This is a niche of the immigrant community. ", "I hate this country right now.", "Drinking and driving isn’t normal. ", "It’s what should happen according to the law, but it’s people like him we should be trying to make it a simplified process for.\n\nThrow those with a history of violent crimes in the pit of misery ", "It really isn't. And I'm very much in favour of legal abortions.\n\nThe argument is about when a fetus becomes a person. Is it the moment it gets leaves the womb? Anti-abortion people just consider the fetus to be a person and don't want it to be legal for the mother to kill it. It's not like they just hate women", "Bro, what’s your problem bro? I’m just tryin to be racist in the internet dawg. ", "As an American I don't get why people are aware that they are breaking a law and then get pissed when someone tries to enforce it. This ain't racism, it's the law. A law that was neglected for the past 8 years. We need people to come in by merit!", "oh yeah, I forgot how ICE didn't exist before trump", ">Is that because the process is that backed up?\n\nYes, they don't call it the green card lottery for nothing. It's why I'm finding it a little hard to find as much sympathy for him as I would for someone who has been waiting to move to the US for years but is still in the backlog.", "As a refugee myself, I second that. ", "The world must look so nice from up there on your pedestal, where everything is black and white and everyone has equal opportunities. ", "i know someone who did and got it but it could have been during an amnesty before Mango Mussolini took over.", "I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of deporting this guy, while Melania Trump is allowed to stay. She entered the US on a travel visa, then got paid modeling gigs before she got a work visa. That's illegal, and would have invalidated her application for a green card. \n\nEdit: And I agree with a deportation statute of limitations. Less time for kids brought in, more for adults who get in, dependent upon things like work history, legal trouble, education, etc. It just makes sense.", ">He was TEN \n\nand now he is 39. He made the choice to stay in the US and now he has to live with it.\n", "FAMILY VALUES Y'ALL. THOSE REPUBLICANS HAVE ALL THE FAMILY VALUES. NOBODY VALUES FAMILY LIKE REPUBLICANS.", "It has absolutely nothing to do with race. My best friend's parents are white German immigrants. They've been trying to get citizenship for like 19 years. Still haven't got it, and they're here LEGALLY. So for like half the year they have to leave and go stay in Germany because their visas expired. Our immigration system is just fucked in general.", "Love it, man's living peacefully with a family in a country and its a 'serious crime'.\n\nAs the saying goes, only in America.", "Correct choice is just let him become a citizen. ", "Ouch, my ears!\n\n &nbsp; \n\n ^^^^I ^^^^am ^^^^a ^^^^bot", "Land of the free..", "Good", "Because anyone who is not white, is not apart of Trump and other government officials “America”. ", "The problem would be putting this into law. I'm not a lawyer but I don't think they can just put a law that says, \"If you've committed no crime for 20 years after entering illegally, you become a citizen.\" That'd just incentive illegal immigration then living on the down-low to bypass the immigration process.\n\nI'm sure this man is a great guy. He most likely doesn't deserve to be deported. But how can you make a law so that it's fair for everyone? We can't just let reddit be arbitrators of who deserves to stay or go. ", "All fair points. I would argue the problem lies completely in the hands of lawmakers. \n\nSure amnesty doesn't sit well with some people, however from a resource saving perspective wouldn't it be cheaper than rounding up everyone? Then so as not to encourage more illegal immigration, couple it with an overhaul of border security and visa / work program reform followed by new immigration guidelines?\n\nOur elected officials are so worried about scoring points they're not working on solving the problem. ", "Because he hid from the system. Yet everyone here is crying and heartbroken. The guy has refused to register for citizenship for 30 years. He's had plenty of time ", "I hope somebody makes America great again.", "Get out!", "Oh boy looks like I found the le drumpf tard! Or are you a Russian bot? I swear as soon as I turn 15 I’m moving out of this country", "Isn’t it insane that we enforce our laws?", "Or you admit the country willingly enabled these people to enter with no enforcement,allowing then into th3 school system, and then took their tax money for decades giving them an extremely high perception of permanent acceptance. You also gave their kids citizenship and allowed those kids to attend public schools.\n\nSo you give these people amnesty and then you change. As far as DACA is concerned those people are American.", "Shoulda thought this was a possiblity when he stayed illegally. Shoulda gone home and had a family there. I feel bad for his kids, not him or his wife", "“undocumented” - You meant illegal. Well done, ICE. ", "Did you purposely not read the other 2 paragraphs he wrote?", "The law won't allow it. It was out of his hands. I'm sure you didn't know that or you wouldn't have made that comment. ", ">Enforcement of immigration laws has nothing to do with race.\n\nexcept when the president doesnt want immigrants to come because of their race ", "Of course the law should apply and legally this is good, but the situation as a whole is not good. Imagine being torn away from your Wiafu.", "Again, none of this is practical or sensible and repeating it doesn’t change that fact.", "It isn't that easy to become a citizen....", "Trying to turn a phrase by saying\n\n> countries that you seem to consider undesirable\n\nisn't clever, not does it add any value to your argument. It's simple-minded, annoying, and only works on people who like to read without actually engaging their brain.\n", "> and pays taxes\n\nSales taxes.", "It’s not illegal to break contract but breach of contract is brought against you in civil court. \n\nThere’s no rights afforded to people who are undocumented in the US. No rights, no social contract to obey the law, no criminal charges. ", "he was ten wtf is he meant to do? real americans use their brains and learn from past mistakes, sadly not many of them around anymore", "How about \"Anti-woman\" vs \"Baby murderers\"? Then everyone is equally pissed off.", "It's about damn time. Everything you mentioned, MLK, anchor babies, 30 years, means nothing. People work there asses off to become citizens LEGALLY. I will never feel sorry for an illegal cutting in line.", "At home. No, home would be the country they are citizens of. ", "Lol nice thinly veiled anti-immigration post. You can feel the hate for Dr. King and the less fortunate. ", "I’ll trade 10 worthless citizens for 1 hard working immigrant. ", "There is something happening that is so much bigger than party lines that you can't see. Free your mind from the red vs blue circus that so many Americans have been caught up in for years. The changing of the hats has happened over and over, yet we still see the status quo continue. Your post opened up with the kind of mentality that keeps a political wedge between people. It is that kind tribalism that keeps people, like politicians, from working together. ", "I broke into someone’s house, and I brought my 10 year old along with me. They caught me and called the police, who arrested me, but obviously it’s racist and immoral for them to also take my kid out of the house, so the family who owns the house is now responsible to raise my child. Reddit logic never gets any easier to grasp. ", "This is why we need immigration enforcement (ICE) and reform. Breaking the law, by anyone, for any reason, should be given the appropriate punishment.\n\nIllegal means *illegal. Having a family or blaming a longstanding wrong on your parents’ actions is no excuse for it. ", "He had 30 years to do what it took to become a legal citizen ", "It's pretty funny when people start actually looking at the immigration requirements for other countries that aren't the US. The people screaming about having a merit based system also don't realize that Canada and Mexico both have merit based systems.", "> If you don't like people treating you like a dick, then don't act like a dick.\n\nI feel sorry for you that this is your life. Don't message me again. I blocked you. \n", "It’s cherry picked crap from a very bias source. The fact you’re defense is an alt-right source clearly demonstrates you have no interest in the facts \n\n\nIf I posted something from North Korea as a source why North Korea should be trusted, would you actually spend hours reading it and researching why it’s wrong? Or would it be obvious to not get your information from a North Korean source?", "As much as this situation sucks, I think lawmakers don't want to incentivize being an illegal alien. ", "Good", "Not exactly. There isn’t a good way to become a citizen when you are illegally living in the country. Still his parents fault for breaking the law in the first place. Feel bad for him though, but you can’t bend the law for just one person. ", "I went to school with both the parents and are friends o FB. She's a wreck atm", "Not my argument but I'd say it does by ensuring that the law is applied as it is on the books, whether the subject is sympathetic to the populace or not.\n\nThe law covers what exceptions can be made and in what circumstances, if none apply then the judiciary's duty is to follow the process to its prescribed end, otherwise the whole thing turns into a popularity contest trying to win over the judge and/or the jury.\n\nThat said, wrong laws should be amended, but that takes time, and in the meantime the issue remains.", "Key word is illegal, tough shit. ", "Yeah it's really not as easy as \"Just go back and establish a new life\"", "How would that help him in this situation, precisely?", "Goid", "I mean being here illegally in and of itself is a crime.", "The claim that illegal immigration is a problem is ridiculous. It’s only a problem because of racism and xenophobia, not because of jobs and the economy. \n\n[Our Town Part I](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/632/our-town-part-one) \n\n[Our Town Part II](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/633/our-town-part-two) ", "And yet, you just did. Lmao ", "Ignorance is bliss. Keep your head in the sand. ", ">look past the source at the figures and verifiable information\n\nWhere did your link get their figures/verifiable information? \n\n([spoilers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_for_American_Immigration_Reform))\n\n>and conclude its accuracy and truthfulness\n\nWhat did you do to \"conclude\" it's accuracy/truthfulness?\n\n(Spoilers: the org that produced these figures is obviously biased and they cannot be taken at face value without third-party verification)", "What does this have to do with immigration?\n\nThey also changed the rules to pass the ACA in the end, so 1 party passed it. If they wanted to pass immigration reform they easily could have.", "Why in the 30 years did he not apply for actual citizenship? A serious question ", "Even if you’ve spent years in Disney Land after having snuck in, Disney Land has zero obligation to let you stay. \n\nChildren are often put in difficult situations as a result of their parents’ decisions. ", "> What do you suppose the correct choice of action is\n\nLet him stay and grant him the citizenship he deserves, you dumbfuck", "You realize that the majority of illegals are from Mexico, right? The vast majority of people that support stricter immigration laws don't care what race the people are. I want all the white European people who overstay their visas to either seek legal residence/citizenship (if they can contribute), or leave. ", "You're an idiot for thinking this country sucks because of one news article. ", "did I do something?", "At the risk of starting a flame war on the internet (unlikely place for it, I know), any 'illegal' that is here and purchases anything (like food, water, and shelter) pays taxes. Due to sales tax, many 'illegals' pay as much as their 'legal' counterpart (when comparing household incomes and socio-economic status). \n\nNow for my second internet sin, I recommend a podcast, \"This American Life.\" They recently took a very close look (2 1hr episodes) at a small town in Alabama that was held up as the example of 'illegals taking over.' There is also another podcast \"Science VS\" that does similar research based around sanctuary cities. \n\nI hope you don't take this as an attack, merely another viewpoint to see from. And sorry if the podcast recommendations were too much; I like the density of knowledge they potentially contain and offer my suggestions to any/all that will listen. Cheers.", "#ILLEGAL ", "The Dems have never been in complete control of the government. Ted Kennedy died and we almost didn't get the ACA. ", "I doubt Trump signed the order himself. Even if he did, then if this is your measure for presidential success, Obama was worse because he deported the largest number of illegal immigrants out of any president. ", "Dear United States of America. Be proud. You have United other nations through your division. ", "He didn't apply for citizenship for 30 years? sounds fishy to me", "You honestly believe people just go out of there way to pay taxes? I really wanna know what percentage of illegal immigrants pay income taxes. ", "#WhyWeFight\n#RESIST!", "And that's the news from Lake the_donald, where the men are paranoid bigots enraptured by an idiot's cult of personality, the women are non-existent, and the children are believed to be sold into sex rings at pizza parlors.", "No way I would ever start a family knowing I'm in a country illegally.. it would freak me out first of all and I wouldn't do this to people I love. ", "Not a great analogy because going to Disney Land/World is a luxury. A lot of people come here illegally because it is worth the risk to them. Their country is dangerous or extremely poor. This is maybe more accurate: Imagine if locations legal for you to be in were very dangerous and very impoverished and there was a \"Disney Land\" that was safe and had more opportunities. Would you try to break in to give yourself and your children a better life? Maybe not, but it's why people come here instead of staying in truly terrifying countries. My student's family was murdered in Mexico when they wouldn't pay the mob for \"protection\". Murdered in their home because they had better jobs and a decent house.", "He benefitted from those taxes even though he didn't have a right to. I think he's more than even.", "A 10 year old can’t be held legally responsible for their parents’ actions.", "Careful now: trying to see both sides gets you crucified on Reddit.", "Success!", "> Indubitably your summation based on minuscule evidence must be accurate.\n\nJesus christ, lmao. Do you read what you write before posting?", "if you make it so kids can become legal despite illegal parents, you make it more attractive for these people to come here, and we don't want that.", "Oh what his never getting his citizenship in the 30 years he had?", "He was in the US as an illegal alien.... He broke the law.\n\nI'm sorry his family brought him here.", "probably thought the law was a joke after staying illegally for a year", "ACA was done in that time. ", "Okay what are laws for? And did he say anything racist? ", "You are certainly the biggest idiot or pos that I've seen on Reddit. ", "Will he be able to bring is family back with him to Mexico? What are Mexican laws regarding bringing non-citizen family members of citizens into the country?", "You realize not everyone has a ssn right?", "Has nothing to do with money... 30 years and hasn't applied for citizenship?? ", "Then what's his point? \"Hey here's this unrelated thing that doesn't really apply as the scale of the two matters are so vastly different as to make them incomparable\"? ", "If you're not sympathetic to someone being ripped away from his family and home of 30 years I don't know what to tell you. But if you're trying to say that the reason not to be is because he should or could have done something to get himself legal status in the meantime, just know that assumption is a vast oversimplification of what the process entails. It's an expensive undertaking which doesn't even guarantee that he'll be granted it in the end and in fact may have made him more vulnerable to deportation since he was already living here illegally through no choice of his own, having come here so young. \n\nI'm not arguing one side or another here. I just think it's worth noting how really messed up the situation is either way. ", "He needs to get pregnant\nThen he can stay \n\nThat's how backwards", "Incoming downvotes...take my upvote.", "\"Criminal\"? Should he have walked back to where his parents came from when he turned 18 just to not be?", "Obama set the world on fire with deportations, way more than Bush and a pace that Trump hasn't come close to.\n\nMay want to check your hatred at the door and open your mind. ", "Are you trying to tell me illegals don't smuggle in their kids too?", "His option would be to leave and return legally in 10 years. Could have done that 10 years ago and this picture would be a lot different\n\nIf I got a plane, flew to some country and stayed, and they found out and sent me home, would anyone shed a tear? Or would they just say \"you knew the rules what did you think would happen?\"", "damn 10 year olds should have known the laws! ", "Aside from everything his family and him is having to deal with, maybe we should focus on his parents? They are to blame for this. They brought a child into the country against the law and now he and his wife and children are paying the price. Shame on his parents I say. ", "You need an ID for many, many things that don't include voting.\n\nDo you think it's more important to have an ID to check to see if a person has the legal right to purchase alcohol, drive a vehicle, apply for a loan, or purchase marijuana? If you said yes, then why would it be utterly impossible for that same person to have a valid ID to vote?", "Heartbreaking!", "He would have been kicked out in Canada too. Or Norway.", "Maybe you should begin your statement with \"What about\", then its easier for everyone to identify what you are really trying to say. Both are wrong, but this one is wronger.\n\nEdit: I know wronger is not correct, I am using it to be funny.", ":/ this is so sad", "The Washington Examiner certainly has a right-wing slant, but it's nowhere near the level of Breitbart. It's an actual news source that does actual reporting. ", "So you mean like become a citizen?", "No politicians in the US seem espouse that opinion. They mostly happen to be rich white men, by the way, if you're curious. One of them is orange* though - which is a little weird. ", "So after a criminal breaks the law, after a bunch of years they get to be forgiven for their crime and get to keep what they got from\nTheir criminal activity?\n\nIf we let this guy stay, what does that tell everyone else that in in hiding or want to come here illegally? That if they stay hidden long enough they get to stay here? And if they have kids (anchor babies) they especially get to start here?", "America is one fucked up country nowadays!", "but getting married to a US citizens trumps (fuck) that by law doesn't it? ", "Dismissal is not a valid argument. ", "That’s not really how it works unless you’re talking about skill level, involved in a in demand career, or have great experience/knowledge in a particular field. One of the big things they look for is the value you add to the country so of course people with in demand or highly valued jobs will get better access. These people typically are high earners because of such skills, experience, or knowledge.\n\nBut bribing your way in by paying off officials and/or possibly faking papers? That’s pretty unlikely and uncommon today for the most part.", "I know you're a bot but some things are worth yelling about.", "Right, because history has shown that \"the law\" is the be all end all answer to questions of morality.", "Thank you for your input, we need more people speaking up that irresponsibility should not be pitied. ", "Why is this a story? This is enforcing immigration laws. No news here. Stop sensationalizing this shit. ", "Sucks for him and his family but there can't be shortcuts in immigration law. He needed to go back and now he has. Best of luck to him. ", "The parents are the cheaters. If you just sneak your kids into the US they don't automatically become citizens.", "Fake SSNs,", "Ashamed of what, laws? Look at any other modern country they all have laws for immigration. Don’t see anyone bitching about them. Hell look at the shithole countries they have immigration laws and if you break them you will find your ass in jail for many years possibly. But yeah we should be ashamed /s", "This is just so disturbing and disgusting to me. This man is just as much an American as you or I and was brought here as a child. This is tragic and sad. My heart is literally breaking for him and his family.\n", "> And despite having to tear a family apart, it is what must be done to retain our laws.\n\n100% bullshit. False dilemma. This man and so many like him didn't have to be deported to prevent anarchy. ", "There are people that stay here on a green card for over a decade. American citizenship isn’t easy to get. ", "No they didnt overhaul the entire system. They did nothing to reign in heathcare companies. ", "I think a lot of people aren't thinking of why his family may have fled. I worked in an immigration law office years ago, and many of the children/young adults applying for DACA were brought because of the amount of violence and poverty. There were drug cartels doing horrible stuff every day. Now think back to 20-30-40 years ago when word of mouth was how you found out about most things. Obviously they hear that there aren't all those things in the US, but also it is like 99.9% possible that they had no idea what entering illegally would even mean or do to their child. Back then they didn't have the internet to just look it up.", "What does MLK have to do with it...\n\nHe was illegal the whole time\nAnd didn’t try to fix it. \n\nHis fault.", "Why not just use algorithms then to replace judges?", "Just food for thought I’d imagine.", "> You essentially have to go to Juarez (you don’t want to go to Juarez) \n\nWhy, is it a shithole?", "That's just ridiculous. I'm assuming you don't pay any income taxes.", "But muh feelings.", "Why don't we just let people in?\n\nIt seems like MOST of the people who are here illegally are regular people. \n\nWhy do you have to do all this crap to be a citizen?\n\nIt seems most other countries it's super easy to become a citizen. ", "SSN isn’t required...", "Well there are ways around it now. I don't know if they existed for this man when needed but I have a relative that married a non-resident; after being married he had to leave the country for 6 months~1 year in order to become a temporary resident. He was then able to come back while he worked on becoming a full blown citizen. My dad also works in immigration and works with people like this all the time to find the best solution. This man got absolutely screwed but there are ways for future generations to avoid it if they just get help.", "I see you too have been on vacations to Vegas", "Before you comment on changing status you should probably research if it's difficult or not for the person you're insulting", "You mean leave his family and the life he’s set up to a place hundreds of miles away with which he has no memory or connection to, only to be barred from re-entering for multiple years after which there is still no guarantee he will be able to get back in even if the laws stay intact?\n\nyeah we’d really be saving our economy with that one", "You're about as sweet as sulfur", "This is the situation we currently have, and it's clearly not working for anyone. ", "Which shows how fucked up this is. Literally no way to do anything about it.", "Don't know if it applies to the guy in the article, but you can file taxes using a ITIN instead of a SSN. The IRS issues ITINs to anyone who needs to file a tax return but does not have and is ineligible for a SSN. They can only be used to file taxes and can't be used to claim any sort of benefit and doesn't count as a work authorization. also you are ineligible for certain tax credits if you file using an ITIN.\n\nThe IRS doesn't ask too much about whether you're here legally or not, but they do ask if you entered legally. the section for this is small on the form compared to the rest though. The tax man just wants his money I guess. it's form W-7 to apply for an ITIN. Most of the form covers name, address, birth information, and it's only a single page.", "Shouldn’t have come into the country illegally. Bye bitch!", "Good, now come back legally. ", "life comes at u fast famalam\n", "I'm so glad we have a party in power that protects America's family values! ", "Jesus christ the dude is being deported from his home country. \n\nFucking hell America.", "Not allowed to apply for citizenship if you entered illegally in the first place.", "Only a Sith deals in absolutes.", "There's always Canada? Or mexico", "Lololol THE washington examiner lololol great source, mindless supplicant ", "So what I hear is that this person, knowing that his family was already here illegally, had 30 YEARS to do something about it but now that something is being done about the carelessness, now it’s the countries fault? Hell no it’s not. And I do have sympathy for the guy because I would imagine it’s a horrible thing to experience and I hope he goes through the right process to be here, but Why is this a pity story about somebody trying to milk the system", "Is this sarcasm? Because he was 10 years old lol.", "This was the law when Obama was in charge and he would still have been deported then...", "So it's alright to deport people depending on which country they come from, if it will ease tensions? What about North Korea? If we have NK citizens seeking refuge here should we send them back to avoid tensions? Is it okay if the Democrats do that? ", "He wasn’t a child for 30 years bud ", "At some point this guy should have known of the consequences once he became an adult and could do what he wanted. 22 years ago maybe he could've left and done it the right way. ", "Those factors being wealth, economic opportunity(owning a business), and family. They don't care about the individual applying for citizenship so don't play like Canada is actually taking in any illegal immigrants on the basis of principle for being in America illegally for 30 years)\n\nShoot, I'm 32 and can not even visit Canada for the day because of a dui at age 23. \n\nEdit: American citizen living in Ny 2hrs from Montreal", "I introduce you to the majority representation of our country right there!", "I think there should be a way for someone who came here as a child, with nothing on his record, a path to a green card. \n\nHowever, I always think the \"they're doing jobs Americans don't wanna do\" is terrible. The market would adjust, industries would have to pay a decent wage going forward. That decent wage would attract citizens. This is like \"total capitalism\" without a government safety net (industry paying the lowest possible). In any other area, most liberal/democrats would be screaming. ", "He was brought here as a child Once you become an adult, you should go back home, and if you want to come back, then work on it. ", "Compassion is a slippery slope when it comes to law.", "Even as a Trump supporter. I don’t like this. And I will be downvotes because I support the President. Sad. ", "> How exactly does this make America great?\n\nThis particular action doesn't. But in questioning this particular action rather than the wider policy initiative that it's a part of, are you missing the forest for the trees? Even a positive rule-change may yield some negative effects. The question is whether they are outweighed by the positive. The proposal that was supposed to \"make America great again\" included immigration reform. If you want to know how immigration reform in general can contribute to making America great again, then maybe that's what you should ask.", "You're not wrong but he's been here for 30 years. Unless you have a Delorean then nothing could change what this man had to do. If you think rational immigration policy will be passed within the next couple of decades then you have way too much faith in the American people. Plus even though many Republicans support merit based immigration policy, I can't imagine that the party that supports calling Africa and Haiti \"shithole countries\" can support merit based immigration laws without being prejudice against people from those countries.", "\nSomewhat off-set by the ~$25b they remit back to Mexico though..", "This...for the love of god this.", "Read the article, he was brought here as a child. Can't exactly blame kids can you?", "A type of visa isn’t a status. You can go from F1 to PR. You don’t have to enter some extra weird status. Just adjusting from student status to PR status (depending on what you are using for PR)", "How did you get “socialist” from any of that?", "This is a disaster.", "Appeal to tradition fallacy. You can question whether laws are good or bad. ", "No, you're wilfully decontextualizing and vague-ifying (not sure if that's a word) MLK's message to fit a certain narrative. I'm pro-immigration, in fact I think the distinction between illegal and legal immigrants is ridiculous, but taking advantage of MLK's message to advocate a different issue is ridiculous.\n\n>MLK Day is a symbol of the equality of all peoples and of America's commitment to its values of freedom and opportunity for all\n\nNo, it's not. MLK wasn't some super patriotic dude, honestly. MLK Day is to honor his (amazing) struggle and fight for the improvement of blacks in American society.", "Yes, bc it's so easy to immigrate to those countries... The US has some of the most open immigration laws in the world, yet we're getting shit on by a country like Australia who is keeping thousands of illegal immigrants on a barren island right now. \n\nDon't be a hypocrite. ", "You're a cunt. It's your god given right as a US citizen. Butmake no mistake. you're a cunt. I can say this as a naturalized US citizen. You're a cunt, and lack empathy. But more than anything you're a cunt. ", "It’s easy to go back to Mexico and get a fiancé visa. I know several people who have done it. This is his fault. ", "What is that going to accomplish?", "Pretty sure the goal is showing that laws matter, and people don't get to pick & choose which ones to follow.\n\nIf I could somehow pass one law all by myself... well, I'd deport Trump. But if I could pass two, I'd change our immigration to allow anyone to get a green card after passing a background check, and any kids get in no questions asked. Immigrants aren't evil or a drain on our system, they work hard, pay taxes and if anything, support the system. Letting them all in will only help this nation.\n\nBut until I get asked to pass two laws, I think we should follow the ones we have. This guy's parents should have applied for a visa like everyone else. Hell, like mine did when I was 12. And if he doesn't get one? Well, that's just too damn bad.", ">Why do we not just deport people to other countries when they commit crimes? \n \nWe do. If you're not an American citizen you get deported after prison time\n \n>Why do we not just jail our illegal immigrants? \n \nBecause there are not enough cells for the millions of people here illegally. \n \nIf you're talking about the ones just coming over...we do jail them. \n \n \n \n>They're different situations with different rules.\n\n \nAnd? That doesn't make it not illegal. Do you know why they're called illegal immigrants? Because they came here illegally. [Under federal law] (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325) it is illegal to enter the country using any method other than the legal way. I don't understand what Reddit doesn't understand about this? You can down vote all you want but it doesn't make what YOU think true. \n \nLiterally the only thing making \"sanctuary cities\" a thing is people in certain positions of power choosing not to enforce federal law. ", "The only people who think Trump will be impeached are ones who still have faith that the GOP in Congress have a heart. They don't. They are getting exactly what they wanted. And even if we won EVERY election in the midterms, every last one (which is extremely unlikely), we would still end up needing 10 GOP members to switch sides in order to oust Trump, which, news flash, will never fucking happen. Trump could come out tomorrow and admit to every damn thing he's been accused of, the pee tape, being broke as shit, selling political favors to pay debts, working with Putin to get elected, all of it, he could admit everything, and we still wouldn't get those 10 votes. That's how fucked and how far right the GOP has pushed themselves. Anyone telling you anything otherwise hasn't been paying attention, it doesn't matter what politicians say, only how they vote, and their vote says it all. ", "Then its okay. Source: SWIM did it.", "One bad hombre!", "IDK, maybe his family members should have filed some fucking paperwork at some point between the ages of 10-18. \n\nHis family fucked him, not the government. ", "...it's not because he didn't study for the citizenship test. ", "As I understand, there is not always a way to do so.", "That's not how it works.", "But they'd have to prove intent?", "I feel like 30 years is a lot time to get your shit in order and go through legal channels to become legal. \n\nAlso what does this have to do with MLK? He probably would have opposed to mass illegal immigration and its effect on the black community. ", "But look at the picture!! Are you not heartbroken??", "You are aware that plenty of caucasian Americans’ ancestors did immigrate here legally. Mine for instance came here through ellis island, or so I’m told", "This is true now, but this particular person came when he was 10 and appears to be old enough for his parents to have applied for COS under Section 245(i). They just didn't. \n\n\"If, however, your most recent entry into the United States was illegal – for example, you crossed the U.S. border in secret, without stopping at an inspection point – you have very little chance of adjusting your status to permanent resident based on your marriage. The exception is if you fall into one of the following categories, created by an old law called Section 245(i):\n\nYour employer or a family member filed an immigrant visa petition or (in the case of an employer) a labor certification on your behalf before January 14, 1998.\n\nYour employer or family member filed an immigrant visa petition or labor certification on your behalf between January 14, 1998 and April 21, 2001 and you can also prove that you were physically present in the U.S. on the date the applicable law was passed, which was December 21, 2000.\"\n\n\n\nhttp://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/legal-options-undocumented-illegal-immigrant-stay.html\n\nEDIT: to be clear, I'm just pointing out that it wasn't always impossible. I'm not suggesting that he's responsible for his parents failure to act. ", "The ignorance in your comment is truly astounding.", "So then IDs should not be required for buying a gun. Since getting an ID is so hard, and buying a gun is a clear constitutional right.", "The parents did. If your parents snuck you into Disneyland, are you really going to be mad at Disneyland for kicking you all out when they find out?? No of course not. The parents put their kids in a dangerous situation. ", "Okay, so where is the proof that it doesn’t hold for black community? ", "There’s really no excuse for spending 22 years as an adult in the US and not applying for citizenship legally. Breaking the law is breaking the law, I don’t care who you are, it’s illegal.", "It's terrible that this guy's parents ruined his life. The law was there when they decided to fuck him up. We should not sacrifice the rule of law and the efficiency of our already hobbled immigration system just to reward these criminal parents.", "Destroying American families, sure feels great.", "Holy fuck that’s a racist assumption. Played your hand there eh?", "So he should have been knowledgeable of foreign law and gone against his parents at TEN years old?", "If he left he'd be put on a 10 year ban because he was in the country illegally for more than a year. So not a realistic scenario ", "Wow it's like the laws written that way to prevent people who aren't American from taking advantage of our country....", "I have a hard time believing this.\nAren't there tons of people that have done this succesfully?", "Exactly. My mother came here from Mexico on visa and petition for resident alien. This started back in 57-58. She dragged her feet about applying for citizenship and had a lot of problems gaining permanent status.\nThis was all her fault and no one else’s. Same for this poor guy, he knew he was illegal and just let things lie. Not the best strategy to take.", "He lived in the US for 30 years as an illegal and you're paying sympathies to him? This is beyond moronic. ", "Your list... you do know your talking about the democrats in response right? ", "you just learned that you cannot just waltz into american and live there? Like every other nation.", "Fuck thats awful 🙁", "There is currently no path to any legal status for undocumented immigrants period. ", "This is fucking heartbreaking.", "Adiós amigo\n", "It's very hard to make paths to citizenship in this country. There is tons of resistance from a large part of the voting populous and no one wants to be the politician that was weak on immigration. ", "He had a job, which means he was paying taxes.", "For those wondering why someone brought into the country as a 10 year old does not qualify for DACA protection, the eligibility requirements for DACA are as follows: \"To be eligible, illegal immigrants must have entered the United States before their 16th birthday and prior to June 2007, be currently in school, a high school graduate or be honorably discharged from the military, be under the age of 31 as of June 15, 2012, and not have been convicted of a felony, significant misdemeanor or three other misdemeanors, or otherwise pose a threat to national security.\"\n\nSo this person clearly fails the requirement that they be under the age of 31 as of June 15, 2012. Personally, I felt that specific requirement never made any sense. If the premise of DACA is to protect those people in the United States that were brought into the country illegally through no action of their own but rather by the actions of adults who were their parents or guardians then why does it matter when that happened?\n\nI agree we need to be a nation of laws but this seems like a bad outcome for the country. We lose what appears to be a productive community member and now we create new challenges for three United States citizens (his wife and two children) who now must deal with life without a husband and father.", "So.. still here illegally. What am I missing?", "You have any proof that the government of Mexico pays tons of money to lobby our congressmen for this purpose?", "LIfe's a bitch. Move on.", "At ten years old I don't think we can blame him for his parents decision.", "That likely has something to do with the US's unique history of being made up almost completely of immigrants and their descendents.", "No it’s actually a similar or sometimes more difficult process in other countries.", "Just look into what you have to do to become a legal citizen after you are here illegally. \n\nI know a bunch of people that have done it and they say it is the tuffest thing they ever did and most depleted any savings they had. They had to hire a lawyer, go back to Mexico and stay 6 months to 2 years all while trying to maintain their life in the USA. There is more to it but that should be enough to answer your question.", "Yea, sucks that we have laws.", "I don't understand the outrage. He lived here for 30 years illegally. He was then caught. \n\n\nHe was ineligible for DACA. This has nothing to do with Trump. Well, the post has everything to do with Trump but the policy of deporting illegal immigrants has been around for a while. \n\n\nObama deported 2.5 million people. \n\n\nThere are immigration laws. We do not choose whether or not to enforce them because you seem like a good person. \n\nI wish him and his family the best. ", "That's like your opinion man", "If there was a clear path to citizenship, he would have/could have done it, but there's zero guarantees that it would happen. And he'd have to leave and go to mexico to even try to come back in. Not that simple", "Then don't enter illegally. As much as it sucks it's the fault of his parents for taking that kind of risk for their child", "If you don't have a valid ID that allows you to vote, or are legally unable to obtain one, you shouldn't vote.", "That's not a very good comparison. You don't live in disney land for 20 years then get kicked out because you were snuck in as a child. You're comparing a themepark to where someone lives for a majority of their life.", "Except he didn’t because his parents brought him here when he was 10 years old. ", "It's his fault for bringing those kids into the world. Tell white people \"Don't have kids the world is overpopulated!\" but don't condemn this illegal cunt for bringing in 2 children knowing he could be deported.", "It’s illegal. Sorry I thought it was in plain English then I remembered the left has selective comprehension. ", "How many of those years would he have to spend outside the US applying because the laws are stupid? Answer is many, too fucking many.", "couldn't he apply for a canadian one? I mean Canada is begging for more immigrants if I read Trudeau's tweets correctly so why not? Beats being illegal ", "> Fuck off. \n\nI mean, all countries enforce borders. Are they not supposed to? ", "The USA is a very unforgiving country that focus more in your initial \"sin\" than what is more beneficial for the people and the country long term regardless what you did was wrong. Most European countries will allow you to have permanent residence and work permit if you can demonstrate you have been living in the country for more than 2-3 years and you have a job (even illegal). They prefer people to hold legal jobs and protection rather than letting them being exploited. ", "NO. To many Americans it is absolute justice.\n\nHe was ILLEGAL.\n\n", "WTF does MLK day have to do with this. NOTHING. Stop being a racist.", "Yes. It would be democrats intentionally sabotaging every attempt to enforce immigration laws. ", "So MLK would be completely fine with the US government deporting a brown man who was brought to the US illegally and is being torn away from his family through no fault of his own\n\nMLK wouldn't call you cut but I will. Cunt", "10 year olds shouldn't be illegal.", "And this is why it's the parents' responsibility to think about what kind of future they're condemning their kid to with the actions that they take. Rules are there for a reason.", "Adios Jorge. You had 30 years to earn your citizenship, I guess this countries values aren't that important to you or your family.", "You clearly know nothing about Detroit. \n\n“Shittiest place in the US” \n\nNot even the shittiest the place in the state of Michigan. ", "Because gangs...", "He couldn't become a citizen because he was here illegally. He would have had to leave the US, apply, wait for everything to possibly be approved, and then come back. ", "This guy has to go but Trump stays? We sure are fucking stupid these days.", "A 10 year old can become a criminal, if they couldn't we wouldn't have juvenile detention centers with 10 year olds in them.", "Lots of people fought against injustice. Why not cram some more names into that title? They'd fit.", "> The ~~Mexican~~ American\n\nFTFY", "Right but its been 30 years. This hasn't been handled.", "When the fuck did MLK say anything about illegal immigration of all things.", "Illegal immigrants", "It's not at all Kafkaesque for there to be consequences for illegal actions. Any legal system is based on it.\n\nWhat's Kafkaesque is saying the way to become a legal resident is to first break the law and enter illegally. (E.g. DACA.)\n", "Sorry, are you saying the Washington Examiner is alt-right?", "My point is, with how our government works, you can't blame one party when the other party decides they are literally going to do nothing except stonewall you at every turn. \n\n> They also changed the rules to pass the ACA in the end, so 1 party passed it.\n\nThey didn't get rid of the filibuster. ", "No please don’t go! Noooo! ", "You can't just register for residence. He had to have left before turning 18. Once he turned 18, he gets a 10 year penalty, which means he has to go back to Mexico and wait 10 years before applying.", "Nothing wrong with asking for a source. Don't know why you were downvoted ", "Now you are just making up claims and trying to bring race into something its doesn't belong. Good bait.", "The democratic party has had plenty of opportunities to pass something when they had a majority in at least one house and the presidency. If a party needed complete control to do anything nothing would happen. ", "His parents shouldn’t have broken the law that sucks ", "Because generally we get outraged when a story like this happens, and forget about it next week. Write your representative. But don't just do it once, do it again next week. And the week after. And remind your friends to write them as well. I write my representative several times a year, though not as often as I should.\n\nLaws only change when one of two things happen: 1) there's a public outcry so great the government is forced to listen or 2) special interest groups and lobbyists grease politicians hands. If you feel strongly about this, advocate for the first to happen.", "Good we don't want him here. He should take his anchor babies with him. ", "So he had 30 years to fix this?", "The guy in the article married a US citizen and has children, so no, it doesn't.", "Immigration is upheld in most other countries that actually police their visitors. Because we ignore it we allow people to form lives. Finally we are cracking down on the rules we have in place. ", ">Which is bullshit, because here is a guy with a family, a career, and a spotless record, who is a great example of the kind of person that we want to be here, and he had basically no options. And now his kids are without their father, his wife is without her husband, and he has to start living in a country where he hasn’t resided for 20 years and probably has few connections. \n\n>What good does this do to anyone? What benefit is served here? I’m at a total loss to name any.\n\nAbsolutely nothing. Honestly, leniency should be granted for people who were brought here under-age. Being 10 years old when he was brought here means he wasn't exactly entirely conscious of what that meant. And then your point about him having a spotless record with a family should also be considered. He's the kind of citizen we want.", "and being banned from even applying for 10 years.", "The part where he came illegally. There needs to be a path but the racists of our country elected a racist as a leader and now the normal have to suffer. ", "In the most respectful way, being an illegal immigrant and being deported isnt “fucking over poor minorities”. If I chose to live in a country illegally and eventually got deported, how would that be being fucked over? By choosing to live in a country illegally—no matter how much I make it my home—id be very silly to not understand there are possible consequences to my actions\n\nYes it is VERY sad that he has to leave his wife and children. It is! That would be heartbreaking. But the rules are rules and he chose to live outside of them. ", "Congratulations, you’re a cunt!", "Eww", "I'm researching this for work. It's not too terrible to adjust status from a student visa if you apply within five months of expiration, otherwise it gets hairier.", "Hey I’m just giving you options. You wanna help do your part. ", "i served with lots of people trying to get their citizenship in the Marines. come here illegally or your parents did, you didnt make an effort to serve or make any effort to gain your citizenship. its sad, but fitting.", "You can't just become a citizen. It's not a matter of time but a matter connections to an American or permanent US resident. A lot of Americans think it's easy to become naturalized but it's not that simple.", "Oh, so was he ignorant of his immigration status?", "\nCan employers use an ITIN to make stat deductions?", "Why upvote him? Because he doesn't understand that its not that simple? If you enter illegally you can't just waltz in and become a citizen out of no where. You have to go home and go through a long ass application process even just to get a green card. ", "See ya later!! If I was brought to France, Canada, UK, and any other sensible country with immigration laws, at 10 years old illegally, \n\n\nTHEY'D DEPORT MY ASS TOO! ", "I'm an extremely liberal person but I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone who had 20 years to address a major issue in their life and did nothing about it.", "Its all narrative but you’d get downvoted for saying so.", "That's very interesting, I wasn't aware of it being that widespread, although it doesn't surprise me.", "I mean he did have decades to figured it out on his own time and schedule before the government forced the issue.", "The US' immigration laws are draconian. It can take decades to become a citizen, there's a backlog of millions of cases (4.5 million as of 2013).\n\nDon't believe for a second that we're lax on immigration. We have incredibly difficult procedures for becoming a citizen, and it takes years- more likely decades- to gain citizenship.\n", "Where exactly in that article does it indicate than this fellow was draining the system?", "[Obamacare vs The ACA](https://youtu.be/sx2scvIFGjE) ", "Apparently move to Mexico (where he hasn't lived since he was a child) and just stupidly hope he would be let back in... which in today's climate... he likely would not have.\n\nThis is really the issue here... the guy had no reasonable option to becoming legal. It is really insane that there is no way for someone brought in as a minor to apply for citizenship without leaving the country. ", "I'm researching this for work. It's not too terrible to adjust status from a student visa if you apply within five months of expiration, otherwise it gets hairier.", "> why is the US the only country that has to deal with this shit?\n\nwe happen to have a shithole country attached to the bottom of us like a leach, unfortunately.", "I mean i don't agree that this guy should be deported, he belongs here, hes a fucking american. but yeah, no connection.", "\nCan employers use an ITIN to make stat deductions?", "/r/thathappened", "Agree and I am truly torn about how to solve the problem of undocumented immigrants being here.", "So, of course, that means that once he gets in, he should be able to stay? Just like the Burglar we now have as part of our family.", "Really, you think not joining the Paris Accords is the ONLY action Trump has done that may be construed in a negative light on the climate future of our planet? \n\nTrump is aiding genocide of people's across this world in a large number of actions outside of those related to climate. Just like the citizens at the time didn't know the actual fucking genocide of native peoples was occuring at the hands of the President, neither do people realize the extent of Trump's actions on the world now. \n\nHindsight is 20/20, and saying Trump isn't so bad just because you don't realize the full effects of his actions now is, again, shortsighted and obtuse. ", "Illegal is illegal. He had 30 years to make it right. Oh well.", "I’m a farm kid. So I know for a fact we hired illegals from time to time. We didn’t know tho. Every single one had a valid looking green card and ssn. All of them had taxes taken out, social security, drivers license, and health care.\n\nThey payed money into the ssn system that they will never get out. Welcome to America.", "What both sides, democrat and republican? I'm saying citizens, I'm not saying republican (although with republicans currently in control they are the ones doing things).", "Shame.", "Don’t let the door hit you on the way out!", "Yeah because they should apply, in europe everyone is required to have a legal ID, how fucking hard can it be", "Am I thinking if a different time?", "No, he was there illegally, the government is not bad for deporting him, he was breaking the law by still being here, whether it was his choice to come or not", "Ya! How dare that 10 year old child come here with his family! He should have told his parents NO! ... .../s you incompetent piece of garbage.", "Unless the excuse is you can’t become a citizen without leaving first. So at what point should the ten-yea-old had gone back to his country of origin?", "Hey man, the law is the law. ", "Kinda have to be accepted", "> In December 2007, FAIR was labeled a \"hate group\" by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) which accused leaders of FAIR of meeting with leaders of the Belgian Nationalist group Vlaams Belang which had been condemned by the Belgian Court of Cassation for violations of the law against racism.[68]\n\n>According to SPLC, FAIR and Vlaams Belang share a common notion of Nativism, a political viewpoint that supports restrictions on Immigration. Studies on the association between individuals' perceptions on immigration and Nativism by Sebastian Normandin and D. Schneider reveal that the majority of supporters for Anti-Immigration often believe that the reckless inflow of immigrants to their motherland should be controlled in order to maintain the stability in society.[69][70]\n\n[Federation for American Immigration reform](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation_for_American_Immigration_Reform) \n\nThe founder openly states his mission is to keep America a majority-white country. Hardly a vetted, peer-reviewed or even remotely unbiased source to cite.", "I don’t get why this is in controversial, he had the opportunity, chose not to, he has no excuses. ", "That may be true. But laws still need to be followed until they are changed.", "Instead of name calling how about pointing out how Pro Life people are generally against single-payer healthcare. You have to keep the baby, but get no help with prenatal care, delivery, or postnatal recovery. No CHIP to help with child healthcare, no support for Head Start, after school child care, or the like.", "He didn't have a choice, he was 10 years old when he was brought here.", "2009- Democrats had the votes to do anything they wanted to without any Republican support. What did we get? The shitty ACA. \n\nNo end to the war on drugs. \n\nNo end to bombing Muslim countries.\n\nNo immigration reform. ", "Upvotes for y’all", ">Well I mean if he is undocumented, he really isn't paying the taxes a normal citizen would\n\nSorry guy, try again. You assume that you need a SSN to give the IRS to pay fed/state taxes, but you're wrong. More often than not, he does pay taxes, and probably pays over since he probably can't claim his children or qualify for earned income tax credits. Not to mention the sales tax, and various infrastructure taxes you pay when you have cell/internet/water/etc.\n\n\n", "call them what you like, makes the situation no less tragic", "You don't punish a child for the parent's behavior, even if they were wrong. Punishing a child and going \"blame the parents\" is evil. ", "White collar criminals are way harder to convict than an illegal immigrant for a multitude of reasons.", "There are hard working drug dealers, who do it to provide for their families. I'm sure there are contract killers as well. It doesn't change the fact that they are breaking the law. And while I do feel shitty for this guy and his family. He did have 30 years to do things the right way. He chose not to for whatever reason. I'm not happy he's being deported. But I am happy the law is being enforced here. Because when we allow ourselves to overlook a law for one person, it sets us up for failure. He will be back. Legal or not. Personally I don't care either way, but I am pulling for him.\n\nEdit: I am making no accusations here. But I feel compelled to question how much money he made to provide for his family. That was not taxed. I pay a ton, and it's because of the mass amount of people who dont.", "He had plenty of time to become a legal citizen... nore time than many others that actually do.", "There's a good chance that by the time he was of legal age to have done anything about it, he already had a very solid life. Leaving the U.S. and then just waiting for years to get citizenship status (which isn't even guaranteed to happen) will destroy somebody emotionally and financially. ", "Prove any of those figures wrong. I'll wait...", "9/10 natives died from diseases and plague after Europeans arrived. It wasn't an intentional genocide. ", "World would probably be better off if the US wasn't calling the shots.", "Stupid people like this \n\nhttps://www.inquisitr.com/1336384/illegal-immigrant-is-the-same-as-the-n-word-notes-liberal-columnist-sally-kohn/", "They are welcome to follow him to mexico.", "So, it was rejected by a bipartisan majority?", "Uh... SSNs are incredibly easy to obtain. Hell, you can buy an SSN for like 20 dollars by using the Freedom of Information Act to get an SSN of a deceased person. \n\nWe use it for everything and we are always handing it out other humans with the trust that they won't turn around and sell it. \n\nJust a quick list of what we use it for:\n\n\n* Most financial transactions\n* Employment records\n* Tax returns (federal and state)\n* Medicare benefits\n* Contact with the Social Security Administration\n* Applications for a hunting, fishing or other recreational license.\n\nIn financial transactions alone (work in a similar field myself), your SSN will be seen by the loan officer, the underwriter, and assistants that work under them. That is a lot of eyes for a sacred number that your whole life is tied to. ", "For an O-1 visa, one must prove that their abilities are not only unique, but renowned in their field. \n\nThe standards for proving expertise are extremely high. Less than 25,000 O-1A visas were awarded last year. Nobel and Pulitzer Prize winners have been denied O-1A visas. A Field’s medal winner was denied the O-1A visa. \n\nYou seem to think that the O-1 is as easy to get as the H-1B. It’s not.\n\nhttps://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-workers/o-1-visa-individuals-extraordinary-ability-or-achievement\n\n", "Just burst into tears omw to work", "From what I've read, statistically, that person does speak for the majority of Americans. However, right now we are in a bit of a strange place where the majority thought doesn't align with those in power. ", "Yeah Martin Luther King definitely never said that all people should have equal rights", "This nation was a shining star for maybe 40 years total. From like early 50s to mid 60s, then about early 80s to 2001 (especially post war and fall of Berlin Wall). \n\nAnd it thrives on a different, more genuine form of patriotism, one based on pride and merit, not ethnicity or location of birth. \n\nI will say this reluctantly as an observation, America has seemingly gotten stronger right after hard and/or long Wars that are non-partisan. WWII and the Cold War really united America, and it came out stronger after those wars. \n\nNow, with no real wars to fight, this country has become a reality TV family fighting with itself. ", "YEAH HOW DARE I BRING UP RACE IN AN IMMIGRATION DISCUSSION", "He likely still had payroll taxes deducted. He likely owes money, but maybe not as much as one might realize.", "This is bs. How can they deport this man? He’s American ffs! Wtf!!!!", "Pretty sure that would be extremely difficult for him to do (maybe even impossible?) I'm not sure though I don't really know much about American immigration laws. ", "Fill out form W-7 with the IRS and they will give you a Individual Taxpayer Identification Number(ITIN). They give them to people who are ineligible to get SSNs. The ITIN is used for tax purposes.", "Doesnt that just encourage parents to bring kids here illegally?", "Idk why you spout this bs that illegals don't pay taxes, http://www.businessinsider.com/how-illegal-immigrants-pay-taxes-2012-3", "You don't need to enter the country illegally, you fly in under a normal tourist visa then just never leave. That's how most do it even now. And I think you underestimate how many ppl in the world would give everything they have for a chance to become American and have the opportunities that vome with it. The only thing keeping hordes of people from flooding in is that it is very difficult to get citizenship. If it was as easy as just showing up and deciding to stay, you better believe all flights would be booked up for years.", "Yeah the irs doesnt give a fuck if it was drug money they want a cut. ", "It seems easy because your life is so patheticly boring and uneventful without any love ones. It harder for people who have sacrifice, work, or have loves ones. ", "If the legal immigration system was halfway reasonable, wouldn't the gangs be out of business tomorrow? Why aren't there such gangs at the borders between other countries?\n\nBesides, if even in America's current deplorable state, there are still people so bought-in that they are willing to crawl over broken glass to get here, what goal is actually accomplished by keeping them out?\n\n", "Unpopular opinion time:\n\nDeporting productive members of society does us no good, but inconsistently applying immigration policy isn’t fair, not to those who are trying to legally obtain citizenship nor to those who have been deported. \n\nLaws have to be enforced, or else you’re incentivizing illegal immigration. Parents would jump at the chance to jump the border if it meant their kids could live in America, and that’s not a good thing. ", "Yes, that is exactly what DACA is for. About 800,000 people are in the US illegally because they were brought here by their parents when they were 2-6 years old. DACA allows them to work legally and get a drivers license, but it doesn't give them citizenship. ", "Good. If we don't enforce the law, people like this guy's parents will continue to break it. ", "the comments may be disgusting, but you are simply wrong in terms of law, which is the deciding factor. ", "So you’re arguing that since the illegal immigrants are net positives to the economy, you support making them legal for human rights reasons? Can’t argue with that but I highly doubt that’s what the other person was arguing", "22 years", "Yeah! 30 years is WAY too long to let him slide. ", "Wouldn’t that then make it possible neither side is fully correct ? Nonsense! ", "Not sure the law states that if you merry and an American you get your citizenship as far as i know ", "Hes been an adult for over 20 years now, and he never once tried to fix his citizenship situation? The fault lays with him and him alone.", "Is that after expiration only? Prior to expiration you can do adjustment of status from tourist visa. ", "What does Obama have to do with this?\n\nEdit: didn't realise \"the administration\" means the president", "Have you ever driven 1 mile above the speed limit?Death penalty! Or is it more of a gray area?", "https://www.scribd.com/document/359997156/Cost-Study-2017-Web#from_embed\n\nWhen you actually get outside of your little circlejerk, you start realizing that not everyone agrees with what you are saying. ", "Did he try to get his citizenship ? ", "Prove the figures wrong. I'll wait...", "What does this have to do with MLK day?", "If your response to this is \"dont come here illegally\" you are an unabashed racist no ifs ands or buts.", "That’s easy to say when you’re not the one who has to move out of the only country you know. ", "So you're saying that the way to beat american immigration security is to just ensure you bring a kid with you?\n\nYou either believe in open borders or a sovereign state's rights to control its own borders. That's pretty much all it comes down to.\n\nThe US makes it even messier with birthright citizenship, something that has been done away with by most of the world. This leads to all these illegal immigrants who escape law enforcement long enough having children who are American citizens and that makes it even messier.", "That's post-tax money. If you want to take your own earnings and send them to wherever the hell you want, that's your business.", "boohooo my parents immigrated from a civil war torn country and handled their shit, it took some time but we got our citizenship and it diidn't take 30 years of waiting for a free one let me tell you. If this is what Trump's presidency is then I would vote for 2020 ", "Sucks to suck. ", "I don't think we said anything about it being easy. It's definitely not easy, it's necessary.", "I don't think that's what he meant.\n\nI think he meant, \"how do you do things that require a social security card or other citizenship-required paperwork?\".", "This isn't American at all. People like this need to be helped, not deported. It doesn't make any damn sense. ", "The other guys are technically right but actually wrong. INA 240A (B)(1) allows for the cancellation of removal and adjustment of status to Legal permanent residence (which is not citizenship and why the other responses are technically right). problem is that you have to be in removal proceedings before you apply for this & you have to show that being deported would cause your immediate family (wife & kids, not the immigrant himself) exceptional and extremely unusual hardship. For this guy, I'd guess he couldn't show EEUH if his family has sufficient community and structure around for them to be okay.", "Dude, you guys are on the same page. The only difference is you are trying to govern ad-hoc and they are trying to have structure. Something is in place, keep abiding by the structure until the structure is changed (they want the structure changed too) and then govern by that.", "I’m not on a pedestal, my grand father immigrated from Puerto Rico. He may be a Shitty person but he came here legally. So yeah it is pretty black and white. ", " Because the GOP wouldn't let them.\n", "Sorry to bombard you, but I try to take advantage of seeing reasonable people I disagree with whenever possible! Lol\n\nWhat is your cutoff for when a fetus becomes a person? I know most pro-choice advocates agree that it is when the fetus is viable outside of the womb. How would you reconcile that with the fact that the age of viability has fairly steadily decreased as technology improves?\n\nOnce again, I'm sorry if this isn't exactly the right place for this, but I'm genuinely curious, and I enjoy hearing thoughts from those who disagree!", ">The correct course of action is to exercise some discretion\n\nThe concept of prosecutorial discretion is completely wasted on the \"the law is the law\" types who have no clue how legal systems actually should be administered.", "There's a process to immigration to make sure the US isn't flooded with a sudden population surge because lots of people want to come here. It sucks, I personally would love for anyone who wants to become an American to have that opportunity, but taking in hundreds of thousands of new people will strain infrastructure and public services. There are appropriately harsh punishments for skirting the system. There are also processes you can go through to avoid this particular scenario, this man just chose to not go through them because they are tedious and do involve leaving the country for a period of time and presumably he thought he could fly under the radar because there are literally millions of illegal aliens living in the US.", "They can’t be held responsible for their parents’ actions. He had no say in moving here. ", "When shit like this is prevalent, your point falls flat. \n\nhttp://metro.co.uk/2017/09/20/could-you-pass-this-test-given-to-black-people-registering-to-vote-in-america-in-1964-6941338/\n\nIf you think shit like this doesn't still exist in many different forms to keep out and suppress the \"undesirables\" then you are as naive as you are ignorant. \n\nEdit: Since the post is locked, here is a well sourced article describing some of the modern voter suppression in effect for 2016. https://thinkprogress.org/2016-a-case-study-in-voter-suppression-258b5f90ddcd/", "Your argument kind of goes out the window in this case. Dude was 10 when he came here. There was no way for him to become a citizen without paying all that money to go back to Mexico. Then to start the immigration process from there which takes a very long time and costs thousands of $$. I am just speculating, but he doesn't sound like the type who can just take time away from the family for a year or two to start that process", "Sadly, we are given the choice of being raped by tiny butt plugs vs being gang raped by sandpaper wrapped giant dongs...if that's our only choice, the butt plugs sound like heaven sent goodness vs the alternative.", "You mean that the US now seeks to enforce existing illegal immigration laws, that previous administrations chose not to enforce", "How deluded do you have to be to believe this? This is the same logic we use to keep death row because it \"acts as a deterrent\" when it fact it doesn't do shit other than cost a lot of money. ", "It's a good enough comparison. It really does suck but it's his parents fault", "You have to wait 10 years between when you leave the country and when you are allowed to receive a visa. Even if the man left when he turned 18 he'd have to wait till he's 28. In a country he has limited knowledge and relations, just to leave it again in 10 years. That's assuming he got the visa immediately. ", "I'm gonna paste my other comment.\n\nThe problem would be putting this into law. I'm not a lawyer but I don't think they can just put a law that says, \"If you've committed no crime for 20 years after entering illegally, you become a citizen.\" That'd just incentive illegal immigration then living on the down-low to bypass the immigration process.\n\nI'm sure this man is a great guy. He most likely doesn't deserve to be deported. But how can you make a law so that it's fair for everyone? We can't just let reddit be arbitrators of who deserves to stay or go.\n\nI guarantee that people will take advantage of the system. People already do. You might say I'm racist, except I know for a fact that my own people abuse this. There's services where you marry people to bring them over here. Yes, everyone deserves to live the American dream. Yet it's unfair to those who do it legally; if all you had to do was the abuse the system, then pull heartstrings when you get caught, why even bother doing it legally? ", "This is sooooo fucked. ", "TIL everyone who has ever illegally downloaded music or movies from the internet has been tried and prosecuted for theft.", "I cant overstate how expensive, time consuming, and what a general pain in the ass it is to become an American citizen. Got everything together but your doctors office was late faxing immunization records over? Gotta start over. Sent your paperwork in on time but it sat on someone’s desk before they could be bothered to look at it? Gotta start over. \n\nEven IF you have a lawyer and IF you can afford the insane costs, you never have any idea where you are in the process and getting information or updates on your application is impossible. My grandmother was on top of everything at it still took around 7 years and tens of thousands of dollars. ", "come on man, I know it's cool to hate on the US but how do you think other countries handle this? It's pretty universal....immigration laws are tough every where.", "great, we agree its the parent’s fault. So why does the child get punished?", "The problem is that there then wouldn't be a way to control who comes into the country. theres a legal way to become a citizen. If the government wants to allow more people to become citizens then they can raise the number of people allowed to become citizens legally. You can't just open the borders and allow anyone to Coke in as long as they pay taxes and don't get caught committing crime", "TIL Everyone who speeds and is pulled over is given a ticket and the police officer shows up every time to defend their ticket so there's absolutely no chance that it will be thrown out.\n\nThanks for this. I'm going to use it every time a family member decides to repeat this stupid selective enforcement crap they heard on fox news.", "What do you know about going through the legal system? I grew up right next to the border and know plenty of people with no money who went through the legal way. Don't make excuses. You're becoming a citizen of another country, of course there will be paperwork... hellooooo", "Hey!!! Don't you know you are not supposed to go against the reddit narrative and hivemind!", "And I thought it was the gays destroying marriages ", "I think exceptions should be made for people who were brought as children and have lived in America for a certain amount of time, without criminal records. A man like this shouldn't be deported, and it's not that difficult to make regulations that would allow him to stay while he legally applies. This man didn't have any choice in coming to America undocumented, therefore he's not a criminal, but a victim of circumstance.", "Maybe the fact that he was 10 and didn’t understand he was even there illegally, and by the time he did, he already had a life and job? I’m a lab tech in a small town, and I’d be pretty mad if someone came along right now and forced me into a country I know nothing about. It’s not as easy as “leave for a month and come back.” These people have to stay gone for years.", "Getting married doesn't make you an immediate citizen. You still need to go through all the courses and fees. You just have easier access to it. ", "badass comment homie", "US agriculture survives off of it full stop. It's not a California issue, it's chicken plants in Alabama, It's crops in Georgia. ", "The law is the law.\n\nHe had chances and squandered them.", "Just curious... any thoughts on Joe Arpaio?", "I don't know what you're thinking of. The only time they did anything like that was Harry Reid changing the rules for cabinet appointees to 51 votes instead of 60, but they never got rid of the legislative filibuster.\n\nThe ACA passed with 60 votes.", "His parents did", "Please explain how you have control over your legal status if your parents bring you here when you're 10 years old.", " Fuck that guy for being a productive member of society and a tax paying citizen , right? /s ", "How in 30 years do you not once apply to be a citizen or legal resident? Sorry, not sorry. ", "I'm not sure what their living wage is but I know their minimum wage is over $3.00 higher per hour than it is here in Texas. It must be all our democratic lawmakers keeping that minimum wage down. ", "There's got to be more to this story.", "This shit just doesn’t make sense. This isn’t making America great, it’s just deliberately splitting up a family by kicking someone, who seemingly was a good person and a productive member of society, out of our country. I honestly feel ashamed of our government. No other feeling. Just shame ", "> It's really easy to point to someone of a different color and say \"foreigner\"\n\nThat's been the case for literally the entire history of humanity. We are actually living in the best time for equality.", "30 years isn't enough time to naturalize?", "So not leaving for 3-10 years and then hoping to get back in", "There simply is not a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. This is what the DACA debate is actually about. ", "The top 1% of earners (650,000 and up) Pay 45.7% of the total sum of income tax collected annually. \n\n\nDats a lot. \n\n", "Are you really that sorry?", "This thread is cancer. Horrible that so many basement politicians can have an opinion on this. Theres is absolutely no reason the US should be deporting hard working people. Its disgusting and we should all be ashamed. This country was founded on freedom, opportunity and prosperity and its embarrassing to be an american. \nInb4 “if you dont like it then leave” i would love to.", "As does yours", "Uhm, don't you mean \"Had those conservative Democrats and effectively Democrat independents not been hyper-recalcitrant\"", "What ever doesn't hurt the snowflake's feelwings, apparently.", "In 10 years.", "Lmao you can’t read.", "Because what the fuck is the point of that? If you’re going to open your mouth and eject colossal turds like you did just now, try walking into a bathroom first.", "wow", "Oh no, everything I hate is racist. ", "Well, I mean... it is against the law to be here illegally.", "There was literally no way for him to fix it without leaving and being banned from even applying for 10 years.", "Extenuating circumstances like his case are considered during processing. These things aren't entirely heartless. ", "I mean I understand it would be a really difficult decision. And that's the point where it _was his decision_ to stay. His parents get some blame sure, but once he's an adult he had plenty of time to think about it.", "He came here at the age of ten I’m sure he spoke speaks Spanish. ", "That doesn't change the fact that they brought him here and he likely had no control over it. Blaming them does exactly nothing.", "I went to a UAW function 2 years ago with Jorge Garcia’s wife. She spoke how she was trying to fight the government on not getting her family separated. Too bad for her family. She was a very nice woman. ", "Completely fair, I know absolutely nothing about economics or\n Taxes, I was simply parroting the article", "Exactly this\n\nThe guy had 30 fucking years to do things the right way\n\nHe chose not to", "Adios amigo.", "Yeah because when he’s ten he’s gonna haul his parents ass up to prison and lock them away and bam he’s the hero.", "Ya let's blame his elderly illegal parents! That'll teach 'em! ", "Precisely the reason illegal immigration has to be stopped. This man is paying for his parents' mistake, which would have been avoided had they immigrated legally.", "It's also one of the most sacred sitcom tropes.", "You got some good answers there. One of the ways to think about it is this: Why don't people go back to college in their mid twenties after they've had children? It would almost assuredly improve their lives.\n\nThe thing is, it takes time, and money. Almost all the middle class American's don't have enough of either laying around. You can't get a guaranteed loan to pay for citizenship proceedings (and the lawyers involved).\n\nThese people are really put between a rock and a hard place.", "Trump is: a bigot, racist,a loser, retarded,stupid,violent,ugly,misogynist, and ugly again. If you aren't one of us, you are against us and will get punched in the face\n\nTOLERANCE FOR ALL!!!", "Can’t he just travel back and forth like a tourist? (Worst case scenario) \n\nIt would be a hassle and costly but still could see his family.", "The first premise is sound. Breaking the law is a bitch.\n\nBut without knowing their individual circumstances we can't say if putting him in that position makes them terrible people. To some immigrants, those 30 years for their children are much, much better than the conditions they are facing.\n\nA many, many decades ago, America opened its borders almost unconditionally and found greatness after it found a way to adapt and shape itself as a result of that. Conditions have changed and it doesn't have to be like all those years ago, but I doubt America can't adapt to a rising immigration rate.", "I understand there isn't an \"easy way\" for him to do it. My own father came from Ghana illegally as a child and at 18 left for 7 years so he could apply legally. I remember being 5 yrs old and reading the letters he sent my mother. It's a hard process but the ones who want to do it right always find a way. Everyone else is just too lazy to take the hard steps.", "If you voted for Trump for immature, naive reasons like this, then you don't deserve the right to vote. \n\n", "I am confused how enforcing illegal immigration laws- regardless of sex, religion, or race- is racist. ", "Literally no.", "Fuck of with this bullshit that being an American citizen should somehow be a right to anyone who comes from an impoverished country. ", "How do you go 30 years without applying for citizenship?", "How to you live 30 years, get married and have two kids in a country illegally? \n\nThank god I’m in Australia where we set the rules for who enters our country...", "No, the country they're legally a citizen of is not necessarily their home, that's the point of phrasing it that way. My buddy was brought to Texas when he was 2 or 3; Mexico sure as hell isn't his home in any sense of the word.", "Simple.\n\nHe’s brown. ", "no he's coming across as a person asking a question about reddit", "Ask legal immigrants their opinions on deporting illegal immigrants.", "So why didn't he do that?", "I don't know why you're attacking the party that wants immigration reform. Republicans are the party calling undocumented people \"rapists\" and wanting to basically close the borders to people from \"shithole\" countries. ", "of course not", "Except if the other commenters are right, he can't even apply for a green card due to how he was brought in", "I actually think death tax seems more apt than estate tax. An estate tax would just mean, well, a tax on your estate. If it's specifically a tax you pay when you die, then calling it that is a bit more specific. Though 'inheritance tax' achieves the same thing without sounding as spooky, so I guess this is besides the point.", "\"I have a dream... er to deport.\" - Trump, probably", "It was judicial nominees in 2013, my bad. You are right.", "lol, there is _Z_E_R_O reasons he couldn't take care of his paperwork @ 18 or maybe later after he settled down a bit more. Instead he was too busy fucking with no condoms and not taking care of his paperwork first. Adulting 1st, shenanigans later. ", "Also where the fuck is he supposed to go? This is his home. What now for him, his wife, and his children? This is why the world hates us. ", "Compelling arguments. ", "> just had to be a path\n\nThere's one political party willing to literally shut down the government to ensure there is no such path.", "Well he was ten at the time.", "Too old? ", "I mean I get that he was here illegally and all. \n\nBut this many obviously has a wife and kids and by extension its very safe to assume that he is an upstanding citizen.\n\nIf someone has lived here for 30 years and isn't causing any trouble why not extend a path to citizenship to them instead of kicking them out? They are a benefit to society if they stay and pay taxes and aren't causing any trouble.", "America the Disgraceful.", "Because most people coming from European countries are doing so legally (there are exceptions of course, apparently there's a decent population of Polish people here illegally). But most of the people here illegally are either people from south of the border who simply walked across or people who are overstaying a visa (mostly from non-European countries).", "Yeah, it’s great for business owners. Not so great for citizens that want to keep decent-paying jobs. ", "Reddit on weed: \"There's nothing wrong with that bro, cops are pigs for enforcing the law\"\n\nReddit on people trying to earn a wage without the right paperwork: \"laws the law, deport them all\"", "> And despite having to tear a family apart, it is what must be done to retain our laws.\n\nHe returns to a hardline stance at the end. This really didn't need to happen to \"retain our laws\" or whatever. God forbid an authority figure exercise common sense.", "He fought against \"the exploitation and suffering of black slaves and continues to thrive on the exploitation of the poor – both black and white, both here and abroad.” \n\n“The problems of racial injustice and economic injustice cannot be solved without a radical redistribution of political and economic power.”\n\n“A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.”\n\nIt wasn't just injustice against black people that he fought against. It was both racial and social and economic injustice.", "At the very least not deported to a country you haven't been to since you were 10 when you're in your 40s.", "He had 30 YEARS", "Pretty sure speeding and illegal immigration are different.", "How do you knowingly stay in a country illegally for 30 years and not apply for citizenship.", "Never said they did. Feel free to respond to things I say though if you want.", "You can’t tell me what I can’t do. ", "Nothing, but it helps the narrative that some laws don't matter to tug sympathy strings.", "Well what did you think the process was? Do you think America is some kind of Utopia? Ofourse you can’t apply if you’re here illegally. ", "I worked and lived in another country and paid taxes and worked hard I didn't want to return to the US but my work visa was up so... ", "Is he not committing fraud by using a fake/stolen SSN number to pay taxes? ", "It's fucking crazy how some people can have no empathy. He's lived here the majority of his life, for him to have to put money together just to go back to Mexico so he can come back in order to \"fix\" his parents mistake is absolutely ridiculous, I'm not saying it's impossible but it's a burden the majority of Americans don't have to go through, why should he? He has a family and kids and he's worked to support them. If you think he's harming the economy, whatever, at least put yourself in his God damn shoes and imagine the fucking heartbreak him and his family are going through. \n\nAnd yeah, some people do think it's fucking unjust. ", "By your logic, a kid left in a car while his dad steals diapers is an accessory to a crime. ", "Jesus told Trump this evil is what he wanted....\n\nHow do I sign up for to volunteer for the ACLU?", "It always blows my mind when people talk about friends/relatives who didn't know they were illegal. Like, how can you not know? The very first time you open a bank account, get a job or obtain a drivers license, you're going to get asked for your SSN. Does it not set off alarms when your parents are like, \"Uhhhh... Yeah, you don't have one of those.\"", "Do you not believe we should have immigration laws? If not, why not? Do you appreciate the costs of not having these laws?", "They could say you're being toxicated by the hwite supremacists into saying things like that and shit. ", "You might be a racist, if...", "Would you? Let's say you just turned 18. Would you just suddenly drop everything and return to Mexico. Your parents aren't there, you probably don't have any friends. You might not even have extended family there. And there's a good chance your application could get rejected. I don't know about you, but I'm finding it hard to blame him for anything.", "So? History is not a precedence for having dumb laws. Large immigrant waves have always functioned as an oppressed lower class, which is not a good thing to anyone with a sense of morals. ", "So were you just given a number, or did you have a fake card to go with it, too? I know that for employment verifications, they generally ask for a photo copy of the card.\n\nDid your parents ever get citizenship or was it just you?", "They paid into a system they shouldn't get anything out of because they came her illegally. ", "Not sure why the date is relevant.", "I worked in construction as a teenager. Most of the hispanic people paid taxes without a problem when I was doing it.\n\nI do not know if the IRS just did not care why the same social was being used 50 times because they got paid or what.", "a point system for staying would make a lot of sense, whilst still upholding the law. \n\nEX: the point system for getting in as a legal immigrant but applied to people who are illegal but have resided within the US for a number of years. \n\nfiled/paid income tax for 5+ years = x amount of points. Lived with no convictions for x amount of years = x amount of points. Etc.....", "Not really home if they have spent more time in the other country and were a young child not capable of comprehending their country of birth for most of the time they lived there.", "following laws blindly is really your philosophy? ", "GG ICE, nice to see that they're protecting us from such horrible people! Just look at that man, he's clearly a criminal...", "If the ability existed and the cost made sense I’m sure they would. ", "The point is in the question. Who is to blame?", "His parents broke the law, not him.", "What does this have to do with the topic at hand or MLK's beliefs on racial prejudice and equality? This just says 'hey man, war is bad'. King knew illegal migrant workers were bad for blacks and other minorities in the states and warned against it. ", "They are everywhere lol. And that's coming from a us citizen from el salvador (born there) whose parents are also us citizens who were both born in el salvador. My aunt is one of them, shes leeched so much off oyr family since we can afford it (we were gonna help her out for 6 months, its been almost 2 yrs) and they're the most toxic people ik. If the daca kids want a free pass( which i think they should get zl since they were brought here by illegals) then there has to be a wall compromise soon.allthough yss fuck the Wall Street crooks", "YEAHH! THAT's THE REASON!!!!", "I would feel like \"shit I should have applied for citizenship 20 years ago. I must be fuckin retarded...\"", "His parents were monsters to do that to him.", "Trying to make an argument regarding national policy, while effective, is unbelievably stupid. What matters for broad laws is broad statistics.", "As others have stated since he was brought in by his parents illegally he was not able to do so without being deported ", "Nah bro this needs to be about race, let's make this about race.", "I asked you how this option would help him in this situation. In your own time.", "Dude, you got called on not reading his comment properly and inserting snark after your own mistake. Then you called him a dick, and now you wanna act like the wounded party here? Even in this message you were insulting. ", "First of all, other than a surge in 2014 due to increased violence in Central America, border crossings have been decreasing since Obama took office.\n\nSecondly, the end of 2017 saw an uptick in illegal crossings as the Trump effect fades:\n\nhttps://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/border-issues/2017/12/06/trump-effect-fades-2017-illegal-immigration-u-s-mexico-border-historic-low/925331001/", "Exactly people act like these rules are new. And create pity parties to bash a leader who finally enforces the laws. ", "Thank Sen. Lieberman and those who supported him, he sat firmly in the pocket of the insurance companies and threatened to kill any bill with a public option.\n", "Ah yes the “life’s a bitch” immigration system. You should run for President.", "No, I just like saying how horrible of a country it is when I have the opportunity. Which is quite often these days.", "OK so should he have just left his parents and self-deported at 10 years of age?", "And you believed that?", "Because it's all Trump's fault, duh! Don't you know he's the one that came up with all these ridiculous, racist laws?", "No, he's just using logic to determine his stance on the issue, not emotion.", ">haha better than them living in another one without you huh sambo?\n\nJust want to commit this to posterity when it gets removed, racist. ", "Trump considers people entering illegally breaking the law. Him getting deported is going to cost us more if his wife can't work full time she will need public assistance. There should be a way for people in his situation to at least get a green card and a work permit. ", "The law is the law, unless you're Joe Arpaio and want to illegally racially discriminate. Then you deserve a pardon, right?", "Holy Fuck... ", "I just did that too. I came here at the age of 7, mum filed paperwork for me in 2010 and heard nothing for 7 years. Luckily DACA happened and I was able to work and move in with my then boyfriend. We got married and I filed for paperwork for myself in Nov 2016 and got my green card in July 2017.\n\nNot nearly as long a process as most. Cost me about $1,500. In two years I have to spend another $650 to get permanent residency. ", "If you're married to a military member, then you don't have to go back to Mexico to get a pardon.", "If you are illegal and apply for citizenship you will be deported, and forced to start a lengthly and expensive process. Pretty sure depending on the case you can be outright banned from coming back for 10 years. Those both seem like shitty options for a guy who is as American as any of us. Especially since he has kids.", "An institution of indecency. ", "Assume you spent 10-18 living the US, you have a US high school diploma and everything you’ve learned mainly pertains to life in the US. Why should you go to Mexico, it would makes your life more difficult than it needs to be. \n\nI get that it’s the law but it’s kinda sad, basically doesn’t allow you to reach your full potential. \n\nLife isn’t fair but the least we can do is look at cases like this and ask us ourselves why a contributing member of society needs to be deported given that he didn’t choose to come here in the first place when he was 10.", "You can't just let people violate the law out of \"compassion.\"", "He entered as a 10 year old. What options did he have from then to now? ", "You do realize this administration is the one actually seeking to change the stupid laws you're bitching about, right? The enforcements of the border by deporting illegals was done under Obama and Bush and Clinton and Bush Sr and...", "When it comes to immigration policy, I'm in favor of a big wall with a big door. Metaphorically, of course.", "That's a myth that Democrats had the votes to do anything they wanted. They didn't. And the ACA would have been amazing had there been even a single Republican on board with the reforms. Nancy Pelosi's bill had single payer. ", ">He's a hard working family man who was here illegally. What do you suppose the correct choice of action is? We can either break our laws and allow him to stay\n\nyes", "Bye", "Can you pay taxes if you're in a country illegally?", ">Yes, judge every case on FEELINGS, not LAW, thats how you get a functional society, right guys?\n\nYou're aware of the fact that a major part of functional society is literally employing people called \"judges\" who use their feelings (among other things) to apply the laws in ways which are in keeping with the spirit of the purpose of the law to better society, not to blindly enforce whatever is written?\n\nSimply reacting emotionally does society no favours, but neither does blind adherence to whatever rules are on the books. The goal is to make society a better place. If you're so concerned with not using feelings, then please make a logical argument for why society is better off now that this guy be deported.", "People like you used to complain about the Irish, Germans and Italians as well. They also came \"illegally\". Back before WWI there were no visas, quotas, etc. People just came if they could make it. Meanwhile racist reactionary suckers like yourself organized against them (look up the \"No Nothing Party\") and invented these little legal quibbles to use as weapons. Did you and your people get your papers from the native americans? No?", "That's the problem with this country. Breaking the law doesn't end in punishment in better countries, it results in rehabilitation. But then you wouldn't have anyone below you to snub your nose at to help you feel superior.", "Man it gets harder and harder to defend you guys down south. I'm not sure why anyone would immigrate into the United States right now, you have all royal fucked over your country. Youre embarrassing. ", "You can't apply if you come illegally ", "Yes it is. But we can’t go around breaking the law for any reason we like. I don’t support the law, but if we want to change it we should petition. I actually have written a few emails, (however useless that may be). I agree with you on some points. Don’t go on the internet just to attack people. ", "> For the first time in my 60 years; I am Embarrassed to be an American!\n\nSo, just a heads-up...\n\nThe semicolon can be a very rewarding and useful device in the arsenal that is language, much like the passive voice and other often-misused devices. The trick, however, is to remember how to use it properly.\n\nThe semicolon's main use, aside from being used to separate list items, is to join two thematically-related but otherwise entirely independent clauses; it's really great at doing that. A good rule of thumb for its use is to look at the two things you're trying to bridge with that semicolon and ask two questions:\n\n1) can I remove either clause and still have the remaining one make sense as its own sentence?\n\n2) is it kind of awkward or strange to keep these two clauses as their own sentences, such that they should really be joined together in some way?\n\nIf you answered 'yes' to both questions then congratulations: you can use a semicolon! And your writing just might flow a little more cleanly and logically for its use.\n\nSo let's take a look at your use, here:\n\nHere we've got the phrases \"For the first time in my 60 years,\" and then \"I am embarrassed to be an American!\"\n\nThat second phrase doesn't have any problems: \"I am embarrassed to be an American!\" can be its own sentence, certainly.\n\nBut your first phrase, \"For the first time in my 60 years\", doesn't quite meet the required criteria, as it doesn't, on its own, represent a wholly grammatically intact sentence, since it requires further information to be complete. The preposition-leading phrase is, by itself, insufficient.\n\nLet's look at how you might've been able to correctly use that semicolon:\n\nPerhaps try \"I'm embarrassed to be an American; this is the first time such a thing has happened to me in my 60 years!\"\n\nSee how both those clauses function independently, without an absolute need to contain each other, and yet they go together so well that they might as well be in one sentence?", "Probably had a fake SSN number, so he contributes to taxes, but can never withdraw from programs. ", "He was a kid. His parents made the choice not him. \n\nIf your kid is in the car when you rob a bank we don’t call the kid a criminal and accomplice. ", "No they're not. Don't make stupid shit up and try to pass it as fact. Knock that shit off.", "There is no path to citizenship or legal status for undocumented immigrants. He would have to leave the country for years and reapply. \n\n", "It's not the same thing. The Obama administration went out of its way to focus on criminals, not law-abiding people like this guy. ", "Damn that's sad, but it can't be helped. We all must obey the law.", "That's one way to put it. Another would be Joe lieberman can eat a bag of dicks.", "It's essentially unlimited how many times you can renew your Visa. He let his expire then stayed in the country illegally.\n\nDon't want to get deported? Follow the fucking law.", "> What do you suppose the correct choice of action is?\n\nNot deport him, because no one is served by deporting him, until such time as there are few enough zealots to support a comprehensive overhaul of immigration law that would not result in him being deported, at which time he would no longer be \"an\" \"illegal,\" and would not be deported.\n\nI don't think it's good enough to say \"it's illegal\" as if we serve the laws. We create and enforce the laws. If the enforcement of the law creates injustice, two things are true: 1. it's better not to enforce them than to enforce them and 2. they should be changed.", "It's worth the risk of being deported? I would think that if I were in danger I would want to make sure I'd never have to go back to that dangerous place.\n\nIt's a good argument for immigration reform that smooths out the process and makes it easier for upstanding citizens to integrate, but it's not a good excuse for rewarding criminals", "How irresponsible do you have to be to start a family knowing you're living illegally and could be kicked out at any moment? People say he's paying for his parents mistake but his kids growing up fatherless is completely on him. Maybe take your family back to wherever you're from for however long it takes to reenter the country legally. If you can't afford that, maybe don't have kids who will feel the weight of your burden just like your own parents did to you", "I'm sure he's a great guy, but thirty years? My aunt immigrated here from Mexico and got her citizenship. As did my buddy from Laos. We have laws for a reason. ", "I can't be bothered reading the article, what law did he break?", "More Reddit propaganda!", ">It wasn't his fault. Brought here when he was ten by his parents.\n\nIt became his fault when he turned 18 and had the autonomy to make his own choices.", "That's just not right!", "I bet he jaywalks all the time, but let him get arrested for it...", "looks like it doesn't work, you're still there", "That's.....not the same thing. His mom died, his dad still lived in Cuba. His dad wanted him. ", "This. I've known so many people who worked their ass off to come to this country legally and generally have little sympathy for those who cheat the system.", "So you are someone who agrees with zero tolerance policies?", "Wait, black people are allowed to drink WATER? ", "And when it wasn't your choice?", "He had 30 fucking years since then to do things the right way", "Here's the thing that you guys don't understand about all of this. I agree with you that us Mexicans shouldn't be coming here illegally. However, we're left with no other choice. It can take months/years to come here legally. Not only that, life in Mexico is extremely difficult considering how corrupt the government is. Some people are left to starve. Some work in the fields for the rest of their lives. Most do not complete their education up to high school. EVEN IF THEY DO, they won't be able to afford College. If you think Trumps 40% approval ratings are bad, consider a 12% approval rating from Pena Nieto. This is all coming from a son of two illegal parents who are now legal citizens. We're here because of the improvements and conditions the US offers. Here I can actually have a proper education, graduate college, and sustain a job for the rest of my life.", "He had 30 years to pursue citizenship and he didn't? I guess americans are racist.", "But you're still here.", "Hey the guy only had 30 years to handle this.", "So don't commit crimes then. It's his own fault.", "Why not? \n\nSo every dipshit in Alabama can have 5+ kids, but we don't want the ones whose parents came here illegally? ", "> immigrated from Puerto Rico\n\nYou can't actually be serious, right?", "He came there as a 10 year old, how is this about him not obeying the laws? Just put yourself in his situation.", "Even as an American I'm confused: if she's an American citizen, doesn't he become one by marrying her?", "People say the 1986 Amnesty was a bad idea because it would cause more illegal immigrants to come here, hide out, and hope for amnesty again.\n\nWhat year did this guys parents move here again?\n\n\n\nBut the last amnesty was in 2000 and affected about one million people. There were seven different amnesties between 1986-2000.", "Lucks run out. Some of us are born with it, some of us never have it, some of us lose it. If the United States let everybody who had a sad story in, we would double our population.", "That’s not how it works.\n\nHe would’ve had to have left his family behind and go through a lengthy process with no guarantee that would separate him from his life in the states indefinitely. Immigration is not as simple as taking a test.", "Adios mi amor. This man 30 years to get citizenship. He chose otherwise. There are homeless vets and addicts and mentally ill Americans we can help now that one more illegal alien is no longer costing the tax payer money.", "He literally just said he agree's with you but there is no law at the moment allowing it. Shit sucks and i feel for the guy and family but this is the only option at the moment legally until the laws are changed.", "OOPS! How'd that ring get there?!", "TOUGH SHIT. HE HAD PLENTY OF TIME AND OPPORTUNITY TO GET HIS PAPERS IN ORDER! ANY DOWNVOTES OR BANS IS CONSENT THAT I'M RIGHT.", "Do you Not understand why that doesn’t matter?", "YEAHH! IT'S THE REPUBLICANS! THEY'RE ALL RACIST NAZI'S! FUCK THE REPUBLICANS!!!!", "Millenials don't seem to know about accountability and responsibility", "You're so hateful. I hope you gain some sympathy one day. Not everything is black and white, friend ", "No. Bush proposed it. Democrats didn't want the proposed version. If I recall correctly, it was because it involved enforcing the borders.", "Immigrant doesn't imply any particular race, I don't see how you are making a racism claim. It depends on how they came here if it is illegal or not. If they came and just overstayed their visa, that actually isn't a criminal offense. So undocumented is more accurate.\n", "You will be back together, hopefully sooner than you know", ">Or would they just say \"you knew the rules what did you think would happen?\"\n\nDepends. Were you a child when someone else made that decision for you? Cause then yeah, I would shed a tear.\n", "Now he has to stay gone for ten years, had he left voluntarily the time would likely have been greatly reduced to the normal processing time. But yes when criminals get caught their lives do tend to get turned upside down. ", "That's untrue. There's no provision for that. He's barred for ten years, and probably won't be allowed in after that anyway.", "fucking great. Kick him and his family out, theyre allowed to go with him. Learn how a countries fucking laws work. I'd love for reddit to see what mexicco does to gautemalans. ", "http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Juarez+mexico", "Nope. But we must follow the laws otherwise structure wouldn’t exist. If we don’t follow laws the US will become just like Mexico. ", "Where exactly is he \"returning\" to?", "Guess I'm missing the part where I'm supposed to feel bad. It's the job of our government to enforce the laws of our country, not just the ones that don't offend you. There's the door Jorge.", "No, I don't mean that. \n\nHad a handful of \"moderate\" Republicans like Collins or Snowe been willing to support universal healthcare and work with Democrats, then Lieberman and Nelson could have stood their ground all they want.\n\nThere's no such thing as a good Republican.", "I mean, if I commit first degree murder at 10 I wouldn't get a slap on the wrist", "Why aren't Americans rioting? Sincerely, a very saddened Canadian.", "Had he have left voluntarily years ago when he was first getting married he could have had his visa in 6 month - maybe less as long as his wife is a citizen. ", "That happens a lot.\n\nThere are tons of scam artist immigration lawyers. ", "That’s not true. All workers have to give a Social Security Number, even undocumented immigrants. So a lot of undocumented immigrants will give a fake SSN, which means that they still pay taxes to the government, they just won’t get any of the benefits. So honestly, immigrants are a net benefit to the tax system, since they pay in and never get a pay out. ", "You’re a moron.", "FUCK ICE. I’m a us born citizen and some of the best people I’ve ever met are undocumented Hispanics. Hard working, smart, family centric people are being bullied by the new nazi’s", "Because time doesn't magically make something that is illegal legal.", "What's the full story here on this guy? This has literally zero meaning without an article and only a photo. ", "Mine saved up in Ireland potato farming and running households of 12 and 5 respectively with no mother for one and no father for the other.\nThen they BOUGHT their tickets LEGALLY and LEGALLY BECAME CITIZENS.\n\nSo, sorry, but no I'm not gonna have any pity for a man who has had more opportunity in the US than in the fucked up Ireland my grandparents grew up in. Maybe he should have prioritized becoming a citizen before getting married, having kids, etc.", "He had 30 years to apply for citizenship. 30 years. ", "This is his home. He's lived here for 20 something years. What home does he go to?", "That’s not how it works. He would have had to have held a green card for 5 years in order to even qualify for citizenship, and he cannot qualify for a green card because his original entry was illegal. He would have had to have left the country and apply for a visa or some other means of legal entry (which is not guaranteed) and then apply for a green card (which is also not guaranteed) and then hold it for five years before even being able to be considered to sit for the test you’re talking about.\n\nhttps://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/how-united-states-immigration-system-works", "There were several periods where genocides occurred. It wasn't all diseases.", "Fuck. This. Bullshit.\n\nIf the man has been here as a good working citizen and father for 30 FUCKING YEARS he deserves to stay. It's not his fault that his family brought him here illegally as a child. What a load of fucking crap.", "To stop more people from coming here illegally", "I’m aware. But I’m sure most in this thread feel bad, and don’t like his comment. \n\nEdit: Yep, just read through the replies.", "Muh freedom right", "Well laws are what's enforceable not common sense. Which isn't good since laws aren't objective, mostly, and common sense differs between people. The idea here is to change the law. ", "Was he living here and paying taxes for 30 years or has he lived here for free for 30 years?", "Like who?", "Undocumented immigrants often pay income taxes. You obviously know nothing about the issue.", "Oh fuck off with your virtue signaling. You wanna help you figure it out. ", "Not that you aren’t making good points, but America has always had an undercurrent if shittiness. It started with slavery, continued institutional racism and sexism into systemic bigotry and has one of the highest levels of inequality of any modern nation.", "It's the same reason the article says \"undocumented\" instead of illegal.", "Racist policy being enacted on a day that stands for the.fight against racism.", "As others have stated since he was brought over by his parents illegally he is not able to apply for citizenship while in the country ", "Leading in having dumb laws that allow anyone to enter the country isn't a good thing. Countries should not be aspiring to have laws just as stupid as ours. ", "The mom tried to do the proper process so the real lawyer likely did the legal mumbo jumbo that shows you were acting in good faith.", "I have, a couple of times. Never again!!", "Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Its not just the not paying of taxes that is the issue, its being here illegally. The not paying taxes, if it applies, is just another aspect of it.\n\nAnd the big thing is we don't know if they are or aren't, since like the articles says, the government doesn't even know where a lot of the money is coming from. ", "So he was knowingly committing a crime that he didn't want to stop committing and instead of addressing the issue in the 30 years that he was deported now? His parents failed him and he failed himself since the year he was adult and capable of making his own decisions.", "And they've completely torn apart a family. Ruining large parts of many lives in the process. Will the children have to relocate to a foreign country? Will he only see them now twice or three times a year, if at all? Will his family go broke?\n\nAll because of racism and intolerance. The man pays his taxes and does not practice tax avoidance; he is a net benefit to society even from a purely economic standpoint.", "Even following that logic, if the Mom is an American, or at least a legal resident, why should we deport the kids? \n", "while i actually agree with you, you have to know that there are consequences to saying fuck the law. its why i never complain when i get a ticket because i know i deserve it regardless of how i felt about the law", "\\Should have\n\nHe should have* left the only home he knew in order to apply for a not so great chance at being allowed back in.\n\nLearn the language if you're going to go hard for tough-on-rules nationalism.", "Distance and money. Legit problems for some. I am surprised that the man mentioned in the article had such a hard time given the documents he possessed. I think bureaucracy can be way too heavy handed and at the same time i strongly think we need government issued IDs for voting. We supply tons of aid to those in need and I would think we can shell out the resources to cover IDs also. ", "I feel safer already. ", "Tearing families apart, the American dream", "you're an idiot for not realizing this shit has been going on all fucking year. fuck yourself.", "If he was making good money, he would have a good lawyer, this is bullshit.", "STRAWMAN!", "There should be a line added \"unless you have been a permanent resident for fifteen years or more\" p.s. he probably should have sorted his status about 25 years ago.", "How do I find the mentioned backstory?", "What’s his excuse to not become a citizen? He had 30 years!", "Richest 1% pay 40% of all federal income taxes, despite making 20% of the nation's income. Rich people pay lots of taxes.\n\nSource: https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2016-update/", "He WAS a kid. He's had at least 20 years of adulthood to tackle this.", "I didn't say that. What I did say is that you aren't special. ", "Reading this story on other news outlets made me depressed. All those alt-right, conservative commenters were celebrating this story by wanting his wife and two kids assassinated for being MEXICAN ILLEGAL LIBTURD WELFARE MOOCHERS.", "This is an extremely rare case. This does not represent all the the others equally. ", "\"freedom\"", "It’s a long process, a friend of mine said it was going to take his uncle around 10 years.", "Probably that by the time he was old enough to understand his situation and decide for himself, Mexico was a strange unfamiliar country to him.", "He was 10", "You don't. If he had made some better decisions in life, this situation could have been avoided.", "Thought this would be higher on the thread. ", "That really sucks that his parents broke the law and now he has to deal with the fallout. Oh well, should have gotten on that citizenship thing while he had the chance.", "Pathetic.", ">But most immigrant parents are ignorant of the law as it relates to their children.\n\nIt's like the old saying goes, \"Ignorance of the law is a completely legitimate excuse\"", "Pretending the issue is about skin color is pretty impressive and willful ignorance.", "This is the painful after affect of never addressing illegal immigration. Both Republicans and Democrats are equally to blame for never before trying to control it. ", "\"Undocumented\" is a euphemism", "He did even better, he married and had kids, meaning once they send him back, he can easily reapply and he gets a fast track to citizenship. Basically, come here illegally have kids get kicked out, be allowed to come back.", "You're going to get downvoted but you have a point. \n\nStill, the system is failing him. He arrived here at age 10. Not his fault. When he turned 18, this country was his life. Now he's been here 30 years.... he probably doesn't even remember what Mexico is like. \n\nThis isn't the kind of person we should deport. \n", "Your gonna get a lot of hate for this even though you have a good point", "You're right. Obama's greatest failure was trying to compromise with Republicans.", "we still shouldnt punish children for their parents actions", "He came here illegally and broke the law. \n\nIf you want to come to this country come here legally with all the papers, background checks and vaccinations. ", "If you can’t figure it out in 30 years then there is no hope for you. ", "Wait, you're saying getting your kid out of some gangland slum is a bad idea?", "People are not illegal. \n\nPeople are documented or undocumented. \n\n", "Agree. The bleeding hearts will be out in force in a few moments. ", "Hey that's cool. Off topic tho but can I have ur address? I'm homeless and I'd like to stay somewhere. I don't need your consent though right?", "He was the president before Donnie. So under his administration the laws were the same. This has nothing to do with Trumpy. ", "Because there's no way to handle it. ", "> Enforcement of immigration laws has nothing to do with race.\n\nActually, it does:\n\n> federal and local enforcement discriminates racially through profiling, hyper-surveillance, abusive stops, problematic searches, and unwarranted detention\n\nhttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1870355013717828", "Republicans and Democrats have both tried to fix for almost 15 years with the DREAM Act, but the bill has been shot down every time it has been reintroduced. Nothing to do with Obama. ", "The problem here is that this man never had a visa in the first place. He was 10 when he arrived, and has lived here, albeit illegally, for most of his life. For him to get a visa, it takes months, not a single day. He has to leave his family and job behind, and live in a country he doesn’t know for months to years, depending on how quickly the US government “forgives him.”", "Holy shit you are thick headed.\n\nOk he has to drop everything and leave the country. Oh that job you had and were working for years at? You have to leave that. Oh that family you may have started already? Gotta leave them behind!\n\nDon't worry though, you only have to do it for a few years. So now go back to the country that you have no connection to and in some cases, don't even speak the language. Serve out the ban (which coincidentally only seems to keep people from trying to become citizens) and then come back and work through a complicated and expensive process to become a citizen of a country that you've lived and worked in most of your life.\n\nHe shouldn't have any trouble picking up where he left off right?\n\nI know you are most likely some dumb teenager with no real life experience but you could at least dig deep inside and try to find some compassion instead of blaming the problems in your life on people you have never met.\n\nGrow the fuck up.", "He was 10", "Lots of bigots on here being shitheads on MLK day. Reddit is racist, there’s no denying it in this comment section. Clean up your shit Reddit.", "this shit hurts to read man, wish there was anything this guy could do to stay", "I can’t even fathom the reality you build around yourself. \n\nEDIT: And before you cal me a racist Trump supporter (I’m not), I know Trump isn’t pro-environment. But you’re being dramatic.", "If they don't enforce it in a reasonable time window, then speaking as a legal, born in California and left after fucking idiots took over the country in October 2016 American citizen, no they're not supposed to. \nIf a country has such an inefficient immigration process that they literally sit on their asses for 30 years, allowing a person to build a family, education and life in the US, and then randomly decide to enforce it, then that sort of fuckery is on the country and its policies, NOT the person who is victimized for it. \nI'd rather we deport the braindead idiots commenting on YouTube videos to be honest. \nIf we're gonna start \"trimming\" the fat, let's start internally first. \nYou don't lose weight by driving up to McDonald's and blaming them for selling the Big Mac. ", "I know it's insanely difficult, it doesn't change the fact he wasn't here legally. Immigration law needs to be changed, and it needs to be enforced. ", "It would be more like your neighborhood flooded and you had to take your kid to the tallest house around to wait for rescue. The people who own the house then find you there waiting out the storm and call the police. See how that would be a shitty thing to do?", "I'd rather undocumented Americans than documented anti Americans.\n\nImmigration is America's heritage. Get over it or get out. ", "There is no connection. OP is using MLK's name to push an agenda, just like the painting of MLK \"shushing\" Trump that was on the front page earlier.", "No one assumes that it's easy. The people who actually put the effort into becoming legal citizens definitely know exactly how hard it is, but that's the point, they did it while others either try to skip the line or they try to hide. \n\nAnd if Mexico can require voter's to have ID, then there's zero arguments that people in the US can't get ID's. ", "can't imagine going through life with such a thick skull. taking from the top comment: \n\nIt's [not possible](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/fiance-marriage-visa-book/chapter11-1.html) to apply for a green card while in the US (\"adjust status\") if you entered illegally. \n\n\nWillful ignorance from people like you is exactly what Dr. King was fighting ", "Every job I've ever had required a SSN. ", "You're citing state and federal budgetary numbers (and the source undoubtedly cooked those numbers). We were talking about the economy.", "Ok, well why not go back then immigrate legally during those 30 years?", "I realize that what I'm saying sounds stupid through this historical lens. I really, truly do. But I also realize these exact same defenses were used to defend or downplay Hitler's actions during the rise of the Third Reich, even by Americans. Trump is dangerous, and being blinded by this seemingly caricature of an administration is not good.", "You just don't become a citizen. It's not like he couldn't pass a test. The laws in place right now don't even allow him to take \"the test\" to begin with. Becoming a US citizen is not like it was 100 years ago. You just cannot simply decide to declare your intent to become one. It's a long legal process in which most people are not even eligible to enter in the first place. ", "Yeah people acting like an exception for this man would somehow set a terrible precedent. As if. There is a margin for error with everything, including this.", "My stepdad, not actually married to my mom, stayed in the US for the last 30+ years and was able to become a permanent resident in 2009. He never left the country. I don't know how this happened. I will have to ask my mom.", "They were conservative, regardless of their party membership. ", "This is the best response I've seen on here. Great perspective.", "Or people see MLK as someone who fought against injustice. This is injustice according to them. So there's the connection to MLK. ", "He should have came legally.", "They don't do it to pay their fair share of taxes but most of the time that's the only way you can get a job. Unless you are offering yourself as a day laborer in front of Home Depot, under the table jobs aren't as plentiful as they used to be. In that situation, the employer paying under the table is just as guilty as the worker IMO.", "The system that prevents a person who was 10 years old when he was brought over here from staying in his home is the same system that allows wealthy people to buy brides and get them citizenship. So if we're talking about cheating the system, how does a mail order bride deserve to become a citizen over someone who has been here since he was a child and unable to make any of his own choices?\n\n\nI assume that's somewhere along the lines of where they're going with it. ", "Yes, yes I do. See a recent article in U.S. New Citing Pew Research (generally well respected) \n\n\"The actual percentage of immigrants lacking legal permission who pay taxes is much higher, according to researchers. The institute's report estimates about a third of such immigrants nationally are homeowners, subjecting them to property tax payments. Another 50 percent are believed to pay income taxes. And as much as 75 percent of the population is believed to pay into the U.S. Social Security system (a system of benefits they wouldn't be eligible to receive anyway unless they became U.S. citizens).\"- https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-03-01/study-undocumented-immigrants-pay-billions-in-taxes\n\nSo they pay taxes in all sorts of different forms and in man cases they do not reap the benefits. At a minimum they are contributing just as much as any legal citizen. ", "Because you generally can't register for residence while here illegally.", "Not my problem. Illegal means illegal. We have laws in place for a reason and they should be enforced. ", "this breaks my fucking heart. i thought i was having a bad day bc of an awful fight with my husband and a dead car battery, and then i see someone else's day and i just can't keep it together anymore. my heart goes out to him and his whole family. fuck these stupid rules.", "It's almost like he was trying to take care of his children or something.\n\nWeird. \n\nOff topic, what's it like to be terrible?", "lol so much astroturfed obfuscation in here.", "Can’t we grandfather people in as the laws become more strictly enforced? This is just a low blow. It doesn’t make trump look good or win him any points except from assholes", "He was a kid 30 years ago. He's had plenty of time as an adult to move back and go through the process legally. Why is that not an option to you?", "You must not understand how our immigration system works.", "I mean, he broke the law for 30 years...that's cool that he paid taxes but he still was here illegally, and what the hell does this have to do with MLK Day?", "[Citation needed]", "BYE", "Not legal, unless you're married to a billionaire", "YEAHHHHH! YOU TELL THEM! REPUBLICANS JUST FEED OFF THE TEARS OF THESE INNOCENT AND HELPLESS MINORITIES!!! THE DEMOCRATS ARE GHANDI AND REPUBLICANS ARE HITLER!!!!", "Here illegally. Nice story. Still an illegal immigrant. Should have come to America the legal way years ago.", "Get a tourist visa, give me a million dollars in cash or gold and I'll marry you, you apply for a green card, get it, apply for naturalization in 5 years, and we get a friendly divorce...", "Yeah the article doesn't explain HOW he pays his taxes so I have no clue what they mean. For all I know he is actually somehow paying them. I just don't think that is possible. If anyone reads this and knows more than either myself or the person I'm replying to please do explain it.", "You can't run from taxes man. If he had any type of job or if his wife paid taxes then he had to have had a tax id. how else would his wife file....", "He can't, since he's here illegally in the first place. Read up thread for more details. ", "Huh. Who would have thought that there are consequences for breaking laws?", "Let him stay as a refugee victim of human trafficking, send the parents to prison for kidnapping. That would be a deterrent.", ">because Mexicos government lobbies insane amounts and pays hundreds of millions of dollars to prevent us from putting any substantial funding there.\n\nYou're taking crazy pills. Lay off the cable news, man.", " I've definitely gotten a lot of my friends to think hard about that aspect.\n\nI'm against illegal immigration for many reasons, but one of them are the fact that on the way to school in the morning, I used to see children younger than I was following adults with a basket to help pick peppers.\n\nThe way they get here is a brutal journey. I worked with Guatemalans who have told/joked about horror stories they experienced while there, but if you ask them anything about how they got here they hush up. One who watched a 14 year old boy get biblically executed for stealing from a drug dealer very seriously told me \"you don't ask about that again, please.\"\n\nIt's like slavery-lite at some farms around here and the fact that anyone thinks that what we have now is acceptable is trying to be an \"ally\" more than actually trying to solve an issue.", "Yup. Political Correctness. Taking fact and bending it when you know you're wrong. Democrats invented this nonsense and live by it today. ", "He is not at fault for coming here illegally, but he is at fault for not doing anything about it in the past 22 years.", "What a darn shame..\n**\n^^Darn ^^Counter: ^^543", "R u an english teacher or something?", "You can file for an ISB (I think that's it). It basically gives you a number that let's you pay taxes. ", "Deportations? Been going on longer than 15 days pal. ", "Because maybe, just maybe, a violent disruptive riot doesn’t really solve problems", "Well - guess he doesn't have kids anymore - just future grownups. ", "They were kinda forced into it too, there was a ton of vacancies republicans refused to let them fill.", "You are overlooking and/or ignorant of some significant details of the situation.", "The punishment fits the crime. Drive over there speed limit, you get a ticket.\n\nMurder someone, you get the death penalty.\n\nOverstay your Visa and violate immigration law? Get deported.\n\nIt's very VERY simple.", "> I want you to be able to say that day that I did try to feed the hungry. I want you to be able to say that day that I did try in my life to clothe those who were naked.\n\nMaybe that part as socialism = giving away stuff according to those against it and claim \"you got to work your ass off for your shit!\" ", "Blame the people sending someone to a country they barely know.", "You must be a very stable genius.", "Yeah fuck him for becoming a productive member of this country!", "Unless he got married at 19, he would have had to stay gone for 10 years regardless of self deportation. He came here at 10, and the law is something like if you are here illegally for 10 years then you have to stay gone for 10 years.", "Fuck you. He was one of my best friends (now passed away). I lived it. He moved to San Fran from New Zealand. I helped him move to West Bend, Oregon when he purchased land and began building a house. He went up to Canada to attend his step mother's funeral and wasn't allowed back in. This was the point they found their lawyer had been taking their money but not bothering to do the actual work.\n\nAfter nearly a month of working to get back, he and his son were allowed 9 days to re-enter, get their things and leave (which I flew out and help them pack) while his wife and daughter had to stay in Canada. \n\nHe was born in NZ and grew up in Canada, so he had dual citizenship in each and decided to move to Canada permanently.", "For someone arguing against racism, there is some severely racist assertions in this comment", "Just as much as the current administration - who doldrim was replying directly to. Context is important.", ">Details then. What else you taking about?\n\nA country is more than just an economy. I guess if you want details I can list a few more.\n\n-Education\n\n-Health\n\n-Quality of Life\n\n-Security\n\nHypothetically illegal immigration could be a boon for our economy but harm all of the above enough that it is a net loss for the country. It's complicated. \n\nIt sounds like when you say \"vast majority of economists would agree that even illegal immigrants are net positives to the economy\" you are trying to argue that illegal immigrants are a net positive to the country* and I just don't think there is evidence that is true. There may also not be evidence they are a net negative to the country either.\n\n I do think there is evidence that lawlessness is a net negative though. I think illegal immigration should be stopped or should be made legal. I think the most ridiculous thing about stories like these is that there is no process for a working, law abiding illegal to become a permanent resident or citizen while in the country.", "It's a tough balance to reach. \n\nI understand not wanting people to immigrate illegally with their children so that they're children will have some sort of protected status.\n\nBut you'd have to be a dick to look celebrate this family being torn apart. ", "Then you're good and can apply through the normal process.\n\nThe idea is that you can't say \"I'm just visiting... just kidding, I'm staying\".\n\nThe laws we have make sense, there are just some edge cases where they're a problem. Even then the bottom line is supposed to be don't enter the country illegally, and then your kids wouldn't have this problem.\n\nOn the other hand, we've generally avoided punishing children for the crimes of their parents, which is what DACA/dreamers is supposed to be about.", "I think you meant to say the former", "It's not his fault he came hete illegally but he came here illegally nonetheless. Stealing is still stealing even if you're trying to feed your starving children.", "Ya man, fuck that 10 year old ", "So many people in the comments saying things like \"Why didn't he just get a green card\" or \"why didn't he apply to become a citizen\"?\nWhy does that matter to you? You're telling me that if he had a green card and still got deported, that's where you draw the line? That's when it's unacceptable?\nDon't get me wrong, but I kinda think it's unacceptable to deport this man no matter his green card status. ", "Yeah, my friend’s wife went through this while pregnant with their second kid. Not fun. At least she had somewhere to live with family and didn’t have to stay in Juarez. ", "It's already attractive enough in that we give them jobs because we depend on their labor. IMO the punishment should fall on whoever gave him a job for 30 years, not on the person who worked hard and whose labor we benefitted from for 30 years. ", "He's been here longer than you've been alive.", "See, he’s not an American. That’s what you don’t get. No matter how much you want him to be one he is not one. Your feelings won’t change that fact. ", "Oh here we go. Mexicans are rapists murderers and thieves. \n\n", "As a primarily conservative American this is a head scratcher for me to... blows my mind that politicians can’t get this right and not tear apart families!", "They are both illegal. The point is that just because something is “illegal” doesn’t mean it has to be enforced to a life-ruining degree. In my mind, a crime like this could probably be punished with some sort of fine and probation. ", "They do pay taxes through work. They pay but can't collect. They also pay taxes through rent and purchases. ", "The Republicans could pass a law tomorrow that would provide special exemptions for these people. They should be naturalized citizens. Seriously. They could draft a law right now and make it so that if you were brought here as a child under the age of 18 and if you have lived a productive life and broken no laws, you can apply to be a permanent US citizen. They could even make it retroactive to undo some of the injury and injustice that they have inflicted on other families and people already.\n\nThe Republicans have the house and the senate and the President. This man is only being deported because THEY DON'T WANT HIM HERE.\n\nI don't know if it's racism or apathy or optics or stupidity, but this is evil. It's pure evil.\n\nIf they keep it up, the problem will solve itself, because nobody will want to come to America. \n\nLand of opportunity my ass.", "As many others have stated in this thread since he was brought over by his parents illegally he was not able to apply for citizenship Without being deported ", "Cheers to You. 🙏", "I don't know why you're not answering the question", "To be honest, I think it’s a fair point. We really only seem to care about illegal immigration from certain places, typically Spanish-speaking. If some Brit or Swede was the subject of this article I doubt it would be as contentious. ", "Actually, nearly all of them. Most countries he would've been found and deported way earlier. I am a supporter of creating routes of naturalization for immigrants like him, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking that many developed nations would just let people stay if they can go hidden for long enough. Funny enough, Mexico [also deports a lot of people coming from central and south america](https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/mexico-caught-between-united-states-and-central-america/). It is just that for the most part most other countries have substantially less non-visa immigration and most have very strict visa rules [such as Japan](http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Japan-gets-tough-on-visa-violators-1-day-2780955.php).", "And why should I care? ", "[Yeah, maybe if he's lucky he'll get back into the country to see his grandkids born](http://static.openlawlab.com/uploads/2011/10/IMmigration-Law-Comic-Terry-Colon-Reason.jpg) ", "I’m American. I live in France. I lived here totally illegal for 6 years. I never got deported. ", "It’s not “these people.”\n\nIt’s “people.”\n\nThey’re humans. Don’t try and create some sort of false dichotomy in your mind to sleep better at night.", "You can't apply for citizenship if you are here illegally, or at least you couldn't prior to 2013.\n\nHe would have had to leave, and then be subject to a ten year ban on re-entry because he stayed in the U.S. for over one year consecutively.\n\nHe could have possibly taken advantage of provisional waivers, which were made available in 2013 to people who are immediate family members of U.S. citizens. The waiver would allow him to leave, complete the consular interview, and return without breaking the no-reentry-within-ten-years rule.\n\n\n\n", "Not really an argument. As a male, I’m signed up for the draft. It’s not easy to leave my whole life behind if/when my country needs me. But that’s the law. That’s life.", "Hey man, maybe his grandad is over 120 years old and came from when before Puerto Rico was a part of the US. It's totally possible! /s", "He should not have been here in the first place. He is literally a criminal.", "I'm not a PC person and I've never heard the sick bird thing, but I've worked in immigration law both on the private/defense side and on the government side. Neither uses the term illegal. Two reasons. First, the term illegal is typically reserved for acts or things, not persons. Second, the term illegal is also typically reserved for something that is criminal. Violating our nation's immigration laws is not a criminal offense, although it is, as you've pointed out, unlawful. So when I worked at ICE we typically used unlawful or unlawfully entered.", "The guy has spent 30 years here in the country and has a family. Its pretty safe to assume that he's not done anything to cause trouble and thus bring attention to his legal status. \n\nI'm all for extending a path to citizenship that allows these sorts of people to stay here in the U.S. and under go the legal process instead of just kicking them out away from family and their jobs to start from zero.", "An expired visa is different from an expired legal status. Visas are just an entry permit, and an expired visa just means that if you were to leave the country, you would not be able to legally enter using that expired visa. What is important is to stay \"in legal status\", which is very different.", "Because it's illegal...", "To do that you must first leave the country and there is no guarantee you can get back in", "what choices? like run away from his family when he was 10? ", "That is normal.", "Technically what Wall Street did wasn’t illegal. ", ">Welp, yuh no, I sure feel fer dem colored boys but tha laws the law!\n\n-You in the 60s", "He was 10 years old when he was brought here. How is this his fault? ", "\"Enforcement of immigration laws has nothing to do with race\" - I am speechless, this level of ignorance is staggering", "He would have been out of Canada three decades ago. But let’s all pretend that Americans international image is permanently tarnished because there’s a Republican President. ", "Nope, you didn’t miss anything, and there are thousands of victims of their parent’s stupidity. What were they thinking entering country illegally? ", "He has to go back!", "His parents truly and royally screwed him.\n\nPeople, please think about the consequences of your actions before you break the law. Not just for you, but also for your loved ones.", "He knew he was here illegally at least 20 years ago. While unfair to him, he had choices to make about his future and how he wanted to live his life. Stay in America in the shadows, hoping for amnesty, or find opportunities back home and petition for a legal green card. He took a gamble and now it's biting him in the ass.\n\nOn top of that, his marriage to his American wife would have granted him immediate residency if he had adjusted status by first leaving the country and then applying. Illegals can't adjust status while in country.\n\nHe made poor choices, he had fairly easy paths to residency via his marriage, and he chose to hide. Families are ripped apart every day when people make poor choices that lead to prison time. This is just another sad example.", "ITT: People who did no research on immigration laws wondering why he didn't \"just get his citizenship\".", "IIRC, it’s considered different because your friend entered legally with a tourist visa and overstayed, versus this man who didn’t enter legally.", "They publish misleading details to push a narrative instead of facts. They cherry pick data is what I’m saying. Over and over they do that. People should really avoid using clearly bias sources..both left and right. Democracy Now does the same shit. Posts ‘facts’ but it’s cherry picked data that ignores context or doesn’t shown facts from the other side", "He came illgally as a child, without any say. Guy probably doesn't even remember not living in the US. He doesn't have the option to just become a citizen, if it was that simple don't you think people would do that instead of living in fear if deportation? ", "So he was just supposed to leave his home? he grew up in the US, probably got an education, probably got a job, lived his life like any other teenager, but just because he was brought here as a ten year old by his parents looking for a better life he did something wrong? ", "Weird because my wife over stayed on her visa before we applied for status adjustment. No problems. In fact we got her whatever tax I'd for working 3ish months before her green card came in. Only thing we messed up was not getting her SSN at the same time as the green card so she had to wait however long that took. \n\nSo I'm assuming your friend who over stayed didn't over stay on a fiancé visa? That would be the only thing that seems like it would be a flag.", "how can someone pay taxes if they can't have a job? how can he get a job with no SSN? it looks like this guy had his own business, i'd want to know if he was paying taxes or not, how did he employ people if the owner himself didn't have taxes? ", "Do you even know what \"draconian\" means? The US is not depriving anyone of a right by not granting them citizenship. That entire backlog/the reason it takes so much time is because of the sheer volume of people. ", "Comments don't exist in a vacuum. The person being responded to said it's Donnys fault.\n\nIt is not. Obama and previous admins are just as much to blame.", "He could take your check and put it towards flying his family to where he has been deported.", "Could you name some countries of which people should be more proud than americans of calling themselves citizens of those countries? ", "I thought I blocked you", "30", "i'd sooner have them here than you. ", "Hopefully he comes back legally.", "He's an ILLEGAL immigrant. Not an immigrant. take your agenda and shove it.", "Remember when Obama was elected in 2008 and the Democrats controlled all branches of government and they didn't do a fucking thing to fix immigration? Pepperidge Farms remembers.", "Don't speak for all of us, only some of us don't want that. ", "Once he was old enough to understand his situation and make the decision on what to do, his home country would be strange and unfamiliar.", "Absolutely. DACA is a prime example of what I would like to see expanded. I also would like our immigration process to be all around faster. 10 years to get a maybe is ridiculous. \n\nIf it's a topic you feel strongly about, write your representative as often as you can and convince others to do the same. Contrary to popular belief, they do respond to large amounts of public outcry (mostly because it'll get them re-elected).", "The fact is, immigration and deportation are tricky issues for any country, any political party, etc. Saying it's a republican issue is ignorant. ", "That's fucking disgusting.\nI hope those monsters at ice habe their lives ruined, tearing apart a family like that is disgusting and at Some point you need to fight against the the vile demons above you.", "Ignorance of the law is not a defense\n\n", "Except yes you can and that happens every single day and people get acquitted for it and the purpose of law is to promote a just society and a just society can't exist without great compassion. Your allowed to do a lot of illegal shit to stop a friend from committing suicide, y'know.", "Roses are red,\n\nThe law's white and black, \n\nIf you're here illegally, \n\nYou have to go back.", "> If MLK Jr has taught us anything, an immoral law is no law to be followed\n\nI agree with this philosophy, but just wonder if you view immigration laws as immoral? If so should we repeal them, and have open borders and let anyone immigrate who wants to?\n", "if my parents sneak me into Disneyland and we get caught, they don't let me stay in the park.\n\nEDIT: Seriously, can someone actually refute this analogy without resorting to fallacy of intent?", "Getting an ID is easy and if you can’t figure out how to get an ID, maybe we are all better off if you aren’t choosing who makes our laws. ", "Yeah, why didn't he handle this 29 years ago at the age of 11? \n\nInsensitive prick. ", "Not true. There are many different paths to take to apply for a green card while out fo status and in country. It’s just that Republicans decided to be dicks to Mexicans.\n\nMy brother lost his status by dicking around. He happens to not be a Mexican, so he got a green card in a few years. If you are the right color, or from a preferred country, you can’t fuck up even if you tried.\n\nMy brother refused to leave the country unless he got a green card. ", "On the not-so-off chance that you broke in because you were being either economically strangled, looking for work to feed you family, or perhaps even shot at, what size fucks would you give? Oh what I would give for people to grow a spine... ", "What a darn* shame..\n**\n^^Darn ^^Counter: ^^545", "Fuck this bullshit", "The whole discussion is on the basis that he didn't have a good way of handling it appropriately. What was he supposed to have done?", "\"ICE deports illegal resident\" is a much more succinct and covers the relevant information.\n\nWanting to be American doesn't make one an American. Hiding here a long time doesn't make one an American. Legally immigrating is the only way to do it. If you can't or won't, you aren't and will never be an American. Too many honest people are already waiting and will have to wait even longer because of miscreants like this.\n\n--An immigrant by service ", "Mixed feelings, you want to make life miserable but at the same time you need to educate and teach skills to keep them from coming back. ", "> Their country is dangerous or extremely poor\n\n\na shithole, perhaps?", "Wouldn't taking care of his children entail being present in their lives? \n\nAgain what's so bad about relocating his family for a few years to better prepare for their future as a family?", "Not for 10 years ", "The majority of Americans think that there should be no limit on who can become permanent residents? I would be interested to see that statistic.", "He didn't do a thing in 30 years about it", "That’s no excuse. If people are capable of leaving what they once called home to come to the US, they sure as hell can go back and take some time to adjust there or figure out a way to enter back legally. My dad came here legally and brought us via H4 visa. What makes these people above the law?", "If he knew this was coming why didn’t he go back to his country of origin and get a citizenship? It would have saved his family a lot of trouble. It’s a very tough situation for him I can assume but still...", "You're still implying that it's the democrats' fault even though it would've only taken a few republicans to pass it? So one party has 90% of people supporting something good and the other has 0% and it's the 90% groups fault it doesn't get done? You do know that things don't have to be split down party lines, right?", "Being present without being documented isn't a crime.\n\nThe only crime he could be accused of is unlawful entry, which was a very long time ago. If he overstayed a visa, that's not even a crime.\n\nBeing present without authorization is not a crime, and undocumented aliens are not in an an ongoing \"breaking the law\" status under the laws of the US.\n", "lol at the ad hominem. And so what? No one here can apparently logic past just saying it’s illegal over and over again and actually say why that should matter. ", "Wow! I feel much safer today with him gone! MAGA #stablegenius #grabthepussy #movedonherlikeabitch", "A country which places the law over the people no longer serves the people", "You either have to be ignorant or actually stupid to believe he meant anyone and everyone can come here illegally and live here undocumented.", "So you’re in favor of blindly following the law? That’s dangerous as fuck. ", "thank you! could not have said this better myself. ", "He had a path to citizenship. That path may have required him to leave like some people here are suggesting, but it existed. He chose not to take that path. This is what awaited at the end of the one he chose. America isn’t about everyone having the same starting point. It’s about everyone having access to the tools to see their dreams achieved and the chance to try. This guy’s options were clear. He chose the easier short-term solution in hopes that his choices would magically change on their own...or that we’d all just stop caring that people are here illegally.\n\nI hate it for him and his family but it’s no different than if I was born into some sort of family crime business. I could choose to go along with it at which point it’s my choice as an adult and I’m subject to punishment for the the laws I’ve violated...or I could take the right path even though it may be harder and leave me penniless and without any support. Either way, those would be my choices.", "Because they are illegals and that is illegal.... so that’s why it happens.", "Most people here illegally do* work, and they do pay taxes. They just do it under someone else's name/ssn. I'd encourage you to listen to a recent [This American Life](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/extras/our-town-the-economists-report) episode about this very issue. ", "Lol wow you should really read up on Columbus.\n\nEdit: http://www.history.com/topics/exploration/columbus-controversy", "...dude", "Deportation isnt jail. Once he gets there be can bring his illegal ass back on over. Its not going to be fun, but its not impossible. Its stupid rules, but they are the rules. Its the world we are living in.", "Approved with a 10 year penalty. Kids will be out of college before he's allowed back in.", "Good", "Should the united states should take over the repercussions of the faults of his parents?", "People like me?\n\nWhat a British mixed race guy with absolutely no stake in the outcome?\n\nOr have you made assumptions about \"You people\" because it makes you feel better if everyone is a stereotype?", "Yes it is, but the dude is too old. You have to have been born June 15, 1981 or later to be DACA eligible.", "Says the guy who has zero understating of the system. ", "I do not see that as a benefit.", "> If the legal immigration system was halfway reasonable, wouldn't the gangs be out of business tomorrow?\n\n\nWe can't let everyone who wants to come in, in. So the demand to cross would still be there especially since its easy to do at the moment.\n\n\n>Besides, if even in America's current deplorable state, there are still people so bought-in that they are willing to crawl over broken glass to get here, what goal is actually accomplished by keeping them out?\n\n\nOver population first and foremost. Plus what gives them the right to come here? Just because they want to? Most other countries like Canada or EU countries have way stricter immigration than we do.\n", "Save some taxpayer money.", "He's been here since he was 10 years old, it's not like he's a criminal. He didn't choose to come here illegally. In my opinion, it's cruel to send him back now.", "And stayed after he turned 18. Reading is hard for you? ", "There’s also an automatic 10 year bar. So he would essentially have to leave the country for 10 years before attempting to apply legally. I am undocumented myself, when I turned 18 I sought out an immigration lawyer to do things the right way and was faced with the reality that I would have to leave to the country I was brought from at the age of 5, and live there for 10 years, I have never been back to Mexico since I was brought over and did not have the guts to essentially go back to a country that is foreign to me and leave behind, family friends and the community I grew up with. I also want to thank you for taking the time to inquire and attempt to understand the issue. ", "BYE BYE", "To answer your question, I think there should be some sort of path to citizenship if you can prove you've been in the country for a certain number of years (maybe 10+) and have no criminal history. If not that, then some sort of permanent residency status should be available. \n\nToo many people are caught in this awkward zone where they can't participate fully in American society because they came here decades ago illegally, sometimes of no will of their own.\n\nNobody is calling for open borders or not enforcing our laws, but I would ask for a more reasonable way to deal with a situation like Jorge Garcia's so that he can continue to be a productive member of our society.", "Hey since your so understanding of fairness and all, I've gotta ask a favor. \n\nI need a job and have multiple felonies on my record including attempted murder in the 2nd degree. \n\nWill you give me a chance and let me mow your lawn while your at work in summer?\n\nThis is for real not a joke. I really hope that there are more people like you out there willing to overlook my repetitive felonious behaviors. It's just do hard to survive out here and I was born here legally! \n", "With the intolerance and hatred they’re showing, they probably haven’t even left their own county or state. Hence the closed mindedness and general stupidity.", "The law is the law. If not upheld, what good are they?", "The Republicans control the house, senate and president. If only there was some way that they could pass a law...", "Let's assume you are right, how do you think it got that way? I'll give you a hint, Canada has some pretty strict AND MERIT BASED immigration policies.", "You cannot apply for a visa when illegally in the country. He would have had to leave the country he was raised in for an indeterminate amount of time (often years), in hope of being allowed long-term entry with no guarantee of being allowed to do so.", "YEAHHHH THAT\"S IT! THE REPUBLICANS HATE EVERYONE WHOS NOT POOR! THEY'RE LIKE, \"FUCK POOR PEOPLE! LETS FUCK THEM OVER!!\"", "So, if the whole idea of DACA is to protect children brought in illegally by parents, why is the cut-off so young? We consider sixteen, give-or-take, a minor for everything else, but in this case something that happened at age ten gets treated just like any other adult illegal immigrant? \n\nedit: So here's what I can find. As per Wikipedia:\n\n> To be eligible, illegal immigrants must have entered the United States before their 16th birthday and prior to June 2007\n\nWhich he meets, but:\n\n> be under the age of 31 as of June 15, 2012\n\nAnd seeing as how he's been here for 30 years, this would probably put his birthdate before this cut-off of June 15th, 1982.\n\nSo even though they do treat it as minors in any other case, he just happens to fall outside of the window. Now I just need to find out why that particular date was chosen.", "Bye", "This is a very sad event that could have been prevented by his parents back then. This is not something that just happened, but the repercussions of neglecting immigration laws.", "Also, his thoughts on “illegal”: \n\n> We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was \"legal\" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was \"illegal.\" It was \"illegal\" to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler's Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers. If today I lived in a Communist country where certain principles dear to the Christian faith are suppressed, I would openly advocate disobeying that country's antireligious laws.\n\n", "That's not true at all!! What is up with redditors making up false shit", "Yes, the government is bad for deporting him without considering the extenuating circumstances. Do you want to live in a society like that? Do you think we're a better nation for breaking up a family and deporting someone who had no choice in the matter when brought into this country? \n\nI certainly don't want to live in that type of society. ", "So a felony crime of fraud too?", "Obama deported more illegal aliens than any President in history. Was he also racist, or nah?", "I have a green card.", "Nope. Nope. Nope. Disrespectful to those who lived in Germany in that era. You are more bigoted than Trump is.", "so in 30 years he couldnt manage to get legal but its republicans fault?", "Why should anyone care that you don’t care? The irony is astounding", "Do you have a short memory? This is the consequence one of Donald Trump's [first week executive orders](https://www.vox.com/2017/2/21/14659652/memos-deportation-detention-asylum), as is further evidenced by the fact that that guy has been here for a generation and only now has become a 'problem'. It simply wouldn't be happening under a Clinton government.", "I might be wrong but if he did it on his own i don't think he has to take the 10 year penalty when applying from out of country. ", "He's not 10 years old right now is he?", "Ya sorry, our system here is fucked up. I dont get it either. I didnt vote for this guy and who ever did to get rid of people should prolly just feel like shit till the end pf this term...", "It's not about intolerance, it is about structure and order. Unfortunately, in your wallstreet example, [implying all high end business is rent seeking behavior] pointing out one wrongdoing shouldn't justify another wrongdoing\nEdit: downvoting of all comments that aren't liberal minded apologizing is really turning reddit into an echo chamber circle jerk. Reddiquette, like conversational ettiqutte is meant to foster discussion and further inquiry.", "This is more like charging the children for the food their parents stole", "Fuck the US sometimes. Fuck it to death. ", ">They also changed the rules to pass the ACA in the end, so 1 party passed it.\n\nReconciliation existed since the 80's man.\n\n>They also changed the rules\n\nLOL this is literally the last thing either side wants to do. If things could get done with a simple majority, then all hell will break loose. ", "A sense of human decency? ", "To use your logic: Get caught speeding and violating traffic law? Lose your driving license for life. ", "Replying to this comment in particular because it is the first one to explicitly state that he had no options wrt gaining legal status and because I have a common and underrepresented opinion on the matter. While technically he could/should have relocated temporarily to his home country while gaining legal status, the reality is that process may take years and is unreasonable to ask of a person; and while I am 100% in favor of deporting all illegals and putting up a proper barrier on our southern border this can ONLY happen in conjunction with a reform of these policies. The two MUST happen together. If you propose to fix these policies and leave the border open I cannot support that as it would result in a huge increase to the already abhorrent level of undocumented and illegal immigration into this country from the south. ", "So if he had left when he was 20 with all that good old American education and culture in him, he could have come back 10 years ago! Also the penalty is only if they are caught. Why can't they just go back the way they came so they dont get the ban?", "Ha. ", "I don't understand how he is considered illegal, I mean I see how the word is defined and I guess he fits the definition but he was fucking 10 years old when he was brought here. Not like he made the choice.", "I spoke Spanish until I was 8, I don't remember a lick of it now.", "This is exactly the kind of dumb, unempathetic BS that should have no say in law but somehow does right now. ", "A guy on reddit said it's 100% narrative so that's case closed folks let's move on. \n\nEDIT: I see the_asshats have arrived. Hello brigaders. ", "What about the rest of the time he was an adult?", "https://www.uscis.gov/i-9 The I-9 form if you are a US citizen requires an SSN. You are obviously oblivious to this.", "Really? So my friend didn’t spend $6000 in a 7 year period in documentation and lawyer fees alone to try to become a legal resident? \n\nI’ll be sure to tell him he didn’t actually spend that money. ", "oh the humanity", "You're stripping context to the point of not even remotely answering the actual question anymore ", "How about any legislation passed by democrats since immigration has been an issue? ", "There are counters to some of those claims. \n\nhttps://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cost-of-illegal-immigrants/", "He was brought here as a child illegally. By the time he was an adult, he'd been here 8 years. Since we don't allow people here with out documentation to apply for citizenship, what should he have done? Go back to a country he may not really remember alone at age 18? And that's assuming he knew his status at that point.\n\nThe complete lack of compassion and discretion required to deport this man with a family and job is astounding. He has probably contributed more to this country than many people who were born here, and he is exactly the type of person we should want here.", "Thirty years and still undocumented? \n\n", "So he had 30 years to get his documents? You're outta here.", "Yeah, that’s likely because there was no such thing for as illegal immigration until the 1920s - unless you are Asian, of course, in which case it was in the late 1880s. \n\nWhen did your family come here? ", "The law is the law. We don't get to decide when we want to enforce it or not.", "He came as a child with his parents. He had no say. Of course it's easy to just shit on him being the internet and all.", "> How irresponsible do you have to be to start a family knowing you're a soldier and could be killed at any moment?\n\n", "tomorrow is \"International Hot and Spicy Food Day\". ", "You had thirty years to get citizenship. Also, what does MLK have to do with this? ", "But it could be possible. \nThe fact that it isn't is a head scratcher.", "Out of curiosity. If you are illegal can you pay taxes? I mean you won't have SSN right? Applying for SSN requires a lot of legal documents afaik.", "I have a friend who has been languishing for years waiting for her green card. She came over with a family (the maids daughter), who let her visa expire. After almost 2 decades She finally got a temp work permit, opened a bank account, but her work permit expired & she’s been waiting since September for the new one. Her day care job will hire her back. Her country was too war torn to get her birth records, being married (he’s in prison now) did her no good, and if it wasn’t for her church and kind ladies she & daughter would be homeless. I send her money 3-4 times a year but her situation seems to never get better. And not because she doesn’t try, doesn’t do drugs, dink, steal-she’s a good girl who was given a shit sandwich for a life. ", "Also, did he pay any taxes in 30 years, or were his kids sent to public schools on other tax payer's money?", "Is there a judge in this scenario?", "How is Canada any different?\n\nhttps://www.immigroup.com/news/illegal-immigration-canada\n\nIt doesn't sound like they would let him stay either.", "This is utter nonsense that the left spews. The left doesn't want voter ID so they can use illegal tactics for voting. You need an ID to open a bank account, drive a car, drink, buy a house, get a legal job, rent a car, oh, but voting? Impossible!! Just Impossible! Please. It's as easy as getting a social security card. ", "If you manage to look past the hysteria, you realize that no country in the world tolerates illegal immigrants. No Middle Eastern country was willing to take in it's own kind when Syrian refugees were clamoring at their doors.\n\nThe gentlemen here is more than welcome to apply for immigration once he reaches his country of origin.\n\nThere are no rules barring him from doing that.", "That simply cannot be allowed. ", "100% serious. I’m sorry my family history doesn’t sit well with your arguments. My mother side is immigrants from Puerto Rico and England, And my fathers is Italian and Irish though they were closer to 100 years ago as opposed to my grandfathers immigration in the early 60s. ", "Because there is no cost involved in leaving him where he is while he works to become legal. There is a clear cost in housing people who are trying to move here. \n\nThis is a \"path of least resistance\" response. It's actually surprising you're having this much trouble with it. ", "Solid argument", "How do you stay thirty years and not find the time to apply for citizenship? How do you avoid registering for selective service? Paying taxes?", "This particular dude? No clue. I don't know what his immigration case history is, and the way gov systems are set up, piecing his together may require looking at several different agency's files, e.g. US Border Patrol, ICE/ERO, USCIS, and perhaps others. ", "I'd love to know about the reason. Help me out.", "I live in SA and people never stop bitching about how Trump has made it impossible to get into the US. Meanwhile, two close friends who have careers and families here can't get into Canada because they don't have sufficient funds.\n\n\nEvery country worth getting into is not easy to get into. It is just as you said. The idea that Canada is just accepting whoever is just absurd, and they shouldn't and neither should the US.\n\n\nI have friends who became citizens. Was it easy? No, but ask them if it was worth it? Hell yes. No one want sot back to Nigeria after living in the US for 10 years.\n\n\nIt sounds cruel but this dude did not do what he should have. It's on him and his parents. Also, was his wife just dumb to the fact he was illegal? How do you just not say something?", "You can't become a citizen if you entered illegally. ", "Well she came in on a visa and overstayed it by about a month before applying for her green card. \n\nI understand the distinction you are drawing. ", ">What both sides, democrat and republican?\n\nI meant more for and against but I do see some overlap in what you're suggesting.", "The guy in the article had zero documentation, making him unable to get citizenship through marriage.", "You do realize this isnt true, right?", "Legal mexican immigrants don't want Illegal immigrants here. This isn't a race issue.", "I've been pretty desperate for work before, though...", "If it's not your problem, you shouldn't even be here posting your replies pal.", "How cool, it's like I'm talking with the President.", "And after 30 years he has done nothing to remedy his situation. Sad. Out you go.", "Jesus Christ.\nFuck this government", "That's just mudding the waters to try to attack them with ad hom saying they don't care. Just because they don't support single payer doesn't mean they don't support charties and volunteer to help within their community. \n\nThey simply have a different world view were they stressing more individual responsibility. Which includes helping other when able. That helping people shouldn't be because of a law but because it the moral thing to do.", "I'm really curious. \n\n- What exactly made you mention Obama when OP didn't claim anyone responsible specifically? \n- What made you mention Trump? \n- Why do you think that it was necessary to defend Trump and blame Obama?\n- What do you think contributes that to OP's post?", "It's more an exasperated stance of \"History is repeating itself!\". I absolutely understand where you're coming from, but I also have a career (still early in it though) of looking at the big picture/long term effects of situations. I apply those same methods to my everyday life.", "But he's mexican he can't do anything wrong /s ", "Won’t be able to even try re entering for 10 years. ", "What are the steps for an individual who came here illegally to apply for citizenship?? ", "Powerful picture. He seems very composed and calm for a guy who won’t see his family for a long time. Meanwhile I drop my toddler daughter off with her mother after my visitation days and within minutes I’m a pool of tears in my car.", "The dude has been in the US for 30 years without citizenship... how intense can they really be.", "I just got kicked out of this persons house Ive been squatting in for 30 years, on mother fucking MLK day!!", "Where were these stories on Reddit when Obama was deporting unprecedented millions of immigrants during his administration? Seemed to be only “cool-guy I’m relatable” pictures of him holding a beer etc. \n", "Just because they decided to go for healthcare first doesn’t make them equally responsible. When they tried later republicans would filibuster them. There’s a difference there.", "Lol, no, that's not at all how it works. A judge sentences based almost entirely on precendents. Their hands are tied to a large extent. That's why not setting precendents is so important.", "I find it incredibly ironic you somehow connect this with MLK considering illegal immigration actually damages the black community most of all.", "You're going to trigger a ton of legal immigrants.\n\nI don't necessarily agree with deporting this man, but speaking in absolutes like that is extremely ignorant.", "secure the border, America first.\nhttp://www.washingtonexaminer.com/flashback-corretta-scott-king-warned-illegals-would-take-black-jobs/article/2558647", "I imagine the terrible feel pretty good about themselves these days", "Fuckin really? So what, he turns 18 and just says \"alright, deport me. I'll just get sent back to...somewhere and apply! Fingers crossed!\" Get fucking REAL. This is his HOME. Born and raised. People don't even like leaving the safety of their lives to protest but you're saying this kid should've voluntarily had himself deported to a foreign country because of something his parents did? And for what?????\n\n\nEdit- I'm gonna edit this to say no, no you don't know how difficult that would be.", "Today is MLK day in America", "Laws can be changed for a reason just as well...", "Well, he paid taxes, but wasn’t a citizen. Thus the problem...", "I'm not even sure why presidents were brought into this", "The only people that make this argument are the ones who drilled the hole in the boat. You almost never see Dems saying both sides are equally bad", "The point that I don't see being mentioned is that now, without the father in the home, the rest of the family will probably have to go on public assistance just to survive and there's nothing we can do about that because the children, as American citizens are entitled to assistance.\nAdditionally those children are statistically much more likely to be either victims of crime or perpetrators of crime themselves.\nWhat a shame and so much for upholding Family Values\n", "Enforcing immigration law is extremely necessary because every exception we make encourages more people to take the risk of breaking the law.\n\nWe need to have SOME immigration law. I think it should be quite generous, but we need to keep out serious criminals at bare minimum.\n\nIn order for any vetting to be effective, it must be applied to everyone. We cannot reward anyone for skipping the process, because that undermines the entire point.", "It’s cerainly very right wing bias. Why are people getting their news from very clearly bias websites that cherry pick data or ignore full context?", "What the fuck is going on? There are so many real illegal criminals in the U.S. of all different nationals? Get them, not some poor guy whose pay brought them to America for a better life but didn’t bother doing it the right way. Why fuck with what I’m gonna assume is a productive member of society. I’m all for rounding up “illegals” but there are plenty of “illegals” who are real criminals that should keep our law enforcement community busy for a while. ", "If you can control the language you can control minds. Postmodernists aren't stupid and they are very, very dangerous.", "Good\n\nHe broke the law. Repercussions for breaking the law. Nation of laws.", "If they're paying taxes they probably have stolen SSNs.", "You're right. Those idiots were probably too busy working shitty jobs no American would want to do to, for peanuts in deplorable conditions, to get legal visas. They should have been better parents, and left their 10 year old in Mexico on his own. /S\n\nThis is called life. People do things that aren't right and aren't wrong. Regardless of how he got here, it's utterly shameful to make him leave at this point. \n\nSitting there trying to find out who in this situation is to blame and coming up with anything other than the legislature that is making him leave is one of the most apathetic and privileged things I've seen. \n\n", "Believe me folks, we will make laws great again!", "Or just, idk, treat things on a case by case basis, like they do with those who seek asylum", "Look man I get what you’re saying, but have you ever considered the other aspect of it? As someone born in Mexico but living in the US legally (30 plus years) this term has always bothered me even though it doesn’t apply to me. Why? This word “illegal” ,on the surface is merely an adjective to describe someone’s status in the USA. However when you hear the tone this word has taken, people use it to dehumanize brown people despite not even knowing where they are from or their story. It has taken the same significance as the word “thug”. Our lighter skinned brothers and sisters don’t see anything wrong with this word, but if you ask a black person what they think about this word, you will hear often “it is the new nigger”. \n\nThis isn’t about being a liberal or creating safe spaces or being politically correct. \n\nI’m not trying to start an argument or cause any problems, all I’m saying is think about it. ", "Exactly. \nYou have money and power you are untouchable.", "So what? The law is the law. ", "Empathy much?", "His parents really fucked him over then, huh.", "The same thing happened to a friend of my wife. Her husband was left off the paperwork filed by an attorney when he was a child. His brothers/sisters were naturalized but not him. He got married to my wife’s friend and they started the process to get him naturalized. Through more attorney errors they were denied.\n\nAttorney told them to plan on moving to Mexico at the end of 2018 and that is what they are planning to do. \n\nFor most people it’s completely unimaginable how this happens because we believe the system works the way it’s supposed to work, but then stuff like this happens and good, honest people are deported and pushed out of the country.", "Exactly. That is what he should have done. He had 30 years to do this. ", "It’s a really expensive and long process. A lot of immigrants come here to work for their families in Latin America and also ones they start here. They aren’t working luxurious and high paying jobs, most of them work under the table and work paycheck to paycheck. Then add the fact that the process if you the money takes forever. ", "Because obviously 30 years is not enough time to apply and get citizenship \n\n/s", "There are zero examples of that, or you would have posted examples.", "How would he address it? Do you understand the immigration policies america? He would’ve had to leave and take the chance of his application being rejected and being barred from entering the US for 10 years so it’s a gamble", "Hell, it's about time", "No they aren't. Are you racist? The gangs that control the border are.", "You suggested if we let this guy go, others will be incentivized to take his same path. His path started in childhood. \n\nGranted, others may then try to bring their own kids. But DACA wouldn't apply to them and they'd have no avenue except to hold out for decades and let their kids get off the same way. Hardly guaranteed, hardly an incentive. \n\nSuggesting letting this guy go would do anything to overall immigration is absurd, ", "So a bunch of reddit speculation too? ", "Worked all his life and paid taxes, he is more American than a lot of people who live here.", "r/titlegore ", "If hes been here for 30 years and had time to get married and have children, then you'd think he would have time to become a citizen.", "Can confirm. I went to Louisiana and while I entered legally, I stayed illegally. Roughly 6 months or so later I married the woman I went down there to be with and when they found out I was there illegally they didn't care one bit. I had even lied at the border and told them I was only going to Vermont for the day.\n\nSince I had actually gone down there to be with her we had pics of us with her family, we had gone on a trip etc. We had proof we weren't just getting married for a green card. They didn't even question me if I had entered planning on getting married, which I hadn't. They honestly didn't seem to care at all about any of it.", "Very much so. Anchor babies need to go. Was an amendment for free slaves and now is rampantly abused.", "I'm not saying it's the democrats fault, I'm saying it's not the republicans fault that democrats didn't have it as high of a priority as they had other things. ", "You can't get a citizenship once you're in the US illegally while still living there very easily. The rich and greedy are more of a drain to society than mentally ill people and veterans. \nThe government chooses to give tax cuts to the rich and to let homeless vets suffer because they don't care about them. \nDon't blame a man who came as a 10 year old child. Blame the shitty US government. ", "Yeah, I have an ID. Show up with proof of birthdate/SSN/residency, pay my $20, and sign. ", "Because today isn't Cesar Chavez Day? Because today isn't Ghandi Day? \n\nNo, it's because today is MLK Day, who is remembered as a person who fought against injustice, and this is (in many peoples' minds) an injustice.\n\nIf today were Cesar Chavez Day (which is Mar 31 this year), then we wouldn't be bringing up MLK.", "Yes “unfortunately” our laws run a little deeper than appeals to emotion. What a terrible ideology to run a society with. ", "You didn’t answer any of my questions, and didn’t provide the answer to what a dog whistle is. You’re purposefully acting dumb because no person could really be this dumb. That quote is called paraphrasing, look that up to. I realize you might have to educate yourself to understand that though, and that’s anathema to you. ", "Dude, think before you type... The current administration is not responsible for the \"nationality act of 1940\" that set these rules in place.\n\nYou dont just get to blame them for everything... thats like crying wolf. At least Call them out for stuff they are actually responsible for.", "How do you pay income tax without a social security number?", "Go fuck yourself.", "Puerto Ricans have been US citizens for over 100 years. FOH with this shit", "Hahahahahahahaha!", "Hate that term “undocumented”. It suggests that it’s America’s fault for not having them documented or something. ", "This is like saying \"you've worked for 30 years, why aren't you a millionaire yet?\"\n\nThis isn't how things work for immigrants. There's plenty of explanations detailing why in this thread.", "Yes but based on immigration law, we're stuck with those people. We are not stuck with the worst of the worst criminals from other countries...", "There is no path to work towards legal citizenship. And he didn't come here on his own, his parents brought him when he was ten.", "I hope one day I'm this dumb", "Lol shut the fuck up. I’m white and absolutely do not hate illegal immigrants. But I’m the default racist because I’m white. ", "Why though?\n\nWho cares about citizenship?\n\nYou have to pay for these things any ways.\n\nLiterally cost me and my wife money to get SSID and Birth Certificates for my children.\n\nIf it costs money, let anyone with money pay for it.\n\nWe are all humans. Let us just exist where ever.", "So having a birth certificate is too much to ask of somebody?", "You're still implying that it's the democrats' fault even though it would've only taken a few republicans to pass it? So one party has 90% of people supporting something good and the other has 0% and it's the 90% groups fault it doesn't get done? You do know that things don't have to be split down party lines, right?", "I mean Detroit is the 36th most deadly city in the world (in a country not in war) with 44.6 murders per 100k people. Ahead of many of Mexico’s deadliest cities. So... it’s probably a push whichever place he is. Leaving his kids is another matter. That is unfortunate and heart breaking.", "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. \n\n#*ADIÓS", "By illegal alien family members", "I mean my friends father and mother both got citizenship after 20 years because of their kids was legal. It took them extra time because they screwed themselves somewhere in the process. ", "Not for 10 years he can't", "By administration it was my understanding that they were talking about ICE specifically", "When he’s 18 he can do what it takes to get legal. He’s an adult. I don’t feel sorry for him.", "Not sure, I've never immigrated. That's for him as an adult man to figure out. You have to play the hand you're dealt.", "He's the only one to blame.", "King talked about common brotherhood and the humane treatment of your fellow man. \n\n>A Christian movement in an age of revolution cannot allow itself to be limited by geographic boundaries. We must be as concerned about the poor in India as we are about the poor of Indiana. - MLK", "You've got to use something else like money or powerful connections, obviously.", "tomorrow is International Hot and Spicy Food Day", "He was 22 years an adult and he knew he was Illegal. Personal responsibility and all that?", ">> This nation used to be a shining star. Now it's becoming a symbol of indecency.\n\nFTFY: This nation used to be a shining star. Now it's becoming a shithole.", "Does it say that?", "Because from what we know, they’re not the ones currently being deported and ripped from their family.", "You realize what's wrong with that analogy 🙄 \n\nBut regardless this shouldn't be such a black and white deport or not deport situation.", "Ok then he should go back to his country of origin and apply for a green card. Either through his own will or deportation.", "Most people don't vote", "That a lie. The vast majority of Americans benefit ", "I think most of us would, especially if that immigrant bothered to do it legally, or correct the problem when they were of age to do so. I think it might go a long way towards fixing some of the problems this country has with poverty and welfare. Since it doesn't work that way, though, they are the eleventh person to consider instead of the negative ninth.", "> If a party needed complete control to do anything nothing would happen.\n\nliterally nothing happened besides tax cuts in 2017\n\n###XD", "Yeah, he was a criminal at 10 years of age when his parents brought him over. /s", "Yup, but he has kids and a wife so he must be a good guy!", "You're still implying that it's the democrats' fault even though it would've only taken a few republicans to pass it? So one party has 90% of people supporting something good and the other has 0% and it's the 90% groups fault it doesn't get done? You do know that things don't have to be split down party lines, right?", ">SWIM did it. \n\nI feel like it’s 2004 again and I’m reading shady forums trying to figure out if the drugs I’ve just mixed are about to kill me. There was always a “someone who isn’t me” who took exactly the same things as I did whose word was as good as gold. No need for a doctor when you have Bluelight to tell you the answers. \n\nI haven’t seen people use “SWIM” in ages. ", "fam.. 30 years living illegally would kill me mentally.. why would you start a family, buy a house, etc while knowing you're illegal in a country and could be thrown out at any day ", "There is no connection just need internet points.", "Stories like these are terrible and heartbreaking. What do we do? Should we just remove illegal immigrant laws and allow open boarders without exception? What happens to our crime rates or unemployment rates? How do we avoid stories like these yet enforce our laws. We are a nation of immigrants, but we are also a nation of laws and justice. Not too sure what the best course of action is here. \n", "Has he not applied for citizenship in the last 30 years? I’m unfamiliar with that process but I feel like 30 years is adequate time to do that. \n\nProbably should be a top-of-the-to-do-list type thing to get done...", "you do know that Canadian immigration law is much more stringent than Americas right? i remember looking at it when all of these people were saying they would move to Canada if trump was elected. its super hard.", "Just stop trying man, were getting the downvote brigade from t_d and other russian bot farms", "His parents?", "MLK spent his entire life fighting unjust laws. MLK spent his life peacefully breaking unjust laws. If we recognize that the law is not always just, and that those breaking the law are not always actually doing anything wrong, we can come a step closer to understanding why it is unjust to deport this man and why it might not have harmed anyone that he was brought here against the law at 10 and has lived as a productive American for the last 30 years.", "Hey forget to say he committed a felony", "Just because you have good money doesn't always mean you have good lawyers. \nSome of the richest people in history have had their entire legacy tarnished because they didn't secure good counsel. \nAnd having good lawyers isn't always a necessary cost for things like this. \nI can't retain a $2000 a month attorney and grow my business when my margins are razor thin and I'm trying to expand. ", "Maybe. But if the situation had been dealt with sooner than 30 years after a child was brought to the US, maybe they could have all been sent back. But at this point, it's too late. He has a family.", "Bummer he had shitty parents doing illegal shit", "If that was his option.", "Gtfo", "I hope to god you're like 14 or something, we have enough sociopathic adults as it is. ", "Nice misogynistic post history you have. Of course you agree with this as well. You sad sad man you.", "111 million Americans [admitted to drinking and driving](https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html). There are roughly [220 million registered drivers in the USA](https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/pubs/hf/pl11028/chapter4.cfm). I would argue that 50% rate would put it on average human behavior. ", "It’s a sad reality but i mean it kind of has to happen. If you make exceptions with who does & doesn’t get deported its hard to draw a line.", "He stayed in the country illegally for years after turning 18, which means now that he's been deported, he's banned from even applying for reentry to the US for 10 years.", "Umm...not for nothin but what does deporting an illegal have to do with MLK? Is today supposed to be a \"free day\" for criminals. ", "How dare you say such things about the wonderful country of Mexico. Racist.", "Kids have an American mom (or at least legal resident) and may wish to finish school in the USA. Parents may decide it's better for the kids to stay in the USA. ", "Afaik refugees at least get to apply for permanent residency\n\nEdit: im on mobile but you can read about it here: https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/refugees", "Yeah you aren’t getting the truth. A green card is just a physical thing. You don’t need to renew it to have PR. You just can’t use an expired one to do stuff like get a new DL or open a bank account. Your LPR status still stands. If you didn’t renew it then you can fill out a form and pay to have it renewed. You also don’t need a lawyer for that. \n\nIf this story is true he probably was here illegally or with a fake card or visa and told everyone a lie until immigration somehow caught him. You don’t get deported for not renewing your card and it definitely isn’t a team effort, so the ICE agents trying to get it reinstated is also bullshit", "I agree, they could but it would point out their hypocrisy. I'm ok with that. ", "Nope! That line is poetic but not true. He is not an American. ", "Civilized countries also have laws that consider the context of the illegal immigration. Brought to the U.S. illegally by his parents, pretty much raised and lived there almost his whole life, knows no other home but the U.S. How exactly is this man at fault? These laws shouldn't be black and white and have room for some common sense. This man did nothing wrong and does not deserve to be deported.", "If I had to seek a better life somewhere and my only option was to enter illegally, I would do so without hesitation.", "What sex crime is he accused or convicted of?", "You can get an [ITIN.](https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/taxpayer-identification-numbers-tin)\n\nThe IRS still expects you to pay money on your income, even if you are here illegally.", "We all do, your right, but my main point is about turning it into a serious crime. Murder is a serious crime, living in a country without permission of the rest of the citizens isn't.\n\nI bet this particular man has contributed wayyy more than a lot of people living there legally.", "rip", "Untrue. People are stopped by police and asked for ID. That can lead to being \"outed\". Did you hear about ICE getting people who were testifying in courts?\n\nhttp://beta.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-ice-courthouse-arrests-20170315-story.html\n\nhttps://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/26/opinion/immigration-ice-courthouse-trump.html?_r=0", "I thought immigration control controlled the border? Is this why we need a wall? Because of gangs?", "Miss read the title. Thought the guy was 30. ", "Honestly, fuck borders. We're all citizens of the same Earth. One planetary family.", "MAGA DOIN WORK!!!!!", "At that point his home would be a strange unfamiliar place to him as most the time he spent there was as a young child unable to fully comprehend his experiences. ", "Source? ", "Everything when the system goes after guys like Jorge but prefers to bring in Norwegians for some unknown reason. Racial justice applies to immigrants too. ", "This guy had 30 years to leave the country then apply legally. No effort made to do so. ", "One has nothing to do with the other. What does wall street have to with this. He wasn’t here legally. My parents are immigrants, they came here the correct way and became citizens. He will be able to go back and apply. He had 30 years to figure this all out. It also has nothing to do with intolerance, that’s just bullshit. It doesn’t matter what country you come from. ", "Weren’t his kids born in the US? Shouldn’t that mean he gets to stay?", "Where was I once hateful? ", "There are a lot of taxes that you cannot avoid. You have to pay state and local sales taxes and property taxes. If you are working for an employer who is paying you, that employer is going to have to withhold FICA taxes Medicare, and income taxes or that employer will be breaking us tax law, and trust me the IRS loves to fuck over businesses that don't do withholdings, and rightfully so.\n\nBoth conservative and liberal think tanks estimate that undocumented immigrants paid somewhere between 12 and 17 billion dollars in 2010", "If you ignore all the ways in which it is. ", "But even if he had originally been in the US on a visa, we're talking about illegality starting when he was 10. What is a 10-year-old supposed to do about it?\n\nYou could try to say that his parents fucked him over by making him illegal, but on the US end it doesn't make a lot of sense to me practically for people that are otherwise law-abiding and holding down good jobs to be deported.\n\nThen again, there are people waiting in line to get in legally. What's fair to them?\n\nThis is a messed up situation all around, and it seems like none of the various sides of this are being addressed.", "Man who doesn't make amends and become a legal citizen, gets deported. Gee, I feel so bad. ", "Yeah, it's called a flagpole. Drive to the border, stop at Canada duty free, get refused from Canada, and come home. Takes 5 minutes (at the border). I see hundreds do it a day.", "Well our Republican president just said that he would rather have immigrants from Norway than the 'shithole' African countries. It isn't a matter of skilled vs unskilled immigrants. 41% of the immigrants from Africa have a bachelors degree. Compare that with the general U.S percentage of 28%.", "How did they say it was Trump's fault? The administration part? Were they not talking about ICE?", "Doesn't matter how long he was here. He was here illegally.", "like what?", "And of course, it was done with the understanding, loudly trumpeted, that this would be the only one, so it was ok. \n\n(And here we are again)", "There aren't any. That's the whole point of this debate.", "> The idea that MLK supported a right wing agenda is insane. \n\nI don't think OP said that. Did he edit his comment or something? ", ">the vast majority of economists would agree that even illegal immigrants are net positives to the economy.\n\nNo shit. Of course a massive population of borderline slaves practically unknown to anyone who could help them is good for the economy. The “but it’s good for the economy” argument is such bullshit it’s unreal. Somehow the social justice, “please help the poor immigrant” crowd suddenly flips to the “I’m fine with massively widespread exploitation it pays the bills”. Those two viewpoints are literally entirely conflicting with each other. It’s blatant that you haven’t come to your own conclusion on the issue and you’re just clawing for any shiny headline that supports the viewpoint you’ve arbitrarily chosen.", "Would you support making a law to punish the White families that did the exact same fucking thing - how about just the ones that were murders, or the ones that brutally raped and enslaved people?", "Just the fact that this is his home and has been since he was a child? Go back to Mexico where exactly? I don't even know how you would travel internationally from the US without being a legal citizen. And if he has been here since he was 10, then he knows fuck all about Mexico at this point. ", "What does illegally mean? Should not have been here in the first place. ", "He was 10. What did you expect a 10 year old to do?", "I never said I wanted to help, and I wasn't virtue signaling. I asked you a simple question that you couldn't answer. ", "Pretty sure the [MINIMUM for him will be ten](https://www.lawyers.com/legal-info/immigration/deportation/returning-to-the-us-after-deportation.html), minimum period regularly is 5 years, the \"up to\" is forever, permanent bar from US immigration. That's before he could even try to apply, the process itself after that can take [years to decades more](http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/immigration/sd-me-immigration-waits-20170320-story.html).", "Those who lived in Germany? Try Poland first. ", "Yes, I do. And it's a perfectly appropriate word to use in response to the completely laughable assertion that our laws are \"some of the most lax\", because it's demonstrably untrue with even a minuscule amount of knowledge.\n\nSeriously, this isn't hard to fathom. The US' immigration policies are incredibly long, complex and yes- draconian.\n\nviz:\n\ndra·co·ni·an\ndrəˈkōnēən\nadjective\n(of laws or their application) excessively harsh and severe.\nsynonyms:\tharsh, severe, strict, extreme, drastic, stringent, tough;\n", "It was because this law was not enforced that this guy and many others are going to be facing this same scenario. If immigration laws were actually enforced, then he would have never been here in the first place.\n\nOR... he could actually take responsibility for his actions (GASP!) and realize that he's been illegal for 30 years and didn't do a damn thing about it. ", "He was already deported twice. ", "You're a piece of shit, you know that? Too bad your parents didn't drop you off in a country other than the US.", "How could they be contributing just as much as legal citizens? Your post proves they don't.", "It's possible. . But a green card is not likely unless you're either married to a citizen or have an employer willing to sponsor. Either way requires paperwork and time, but can be done. This scenario sounds different, but I'm sorry I don't have much sympathy for those that willingly didn't attempt to get legalized while they had the chance. ", "Do it right and you don't have to worry", "How am I wrong? Are you saying that not a single person was deported? \n\nHow do you deport someone if you don't know they're undocumented?", "These people do it so they can pay taxes and don’t have problems with the IRS but they cannot benefit from the vast majority of social programs.", "Enforcement of immigration has everything to do with race. ", "I can almost guarantee he's dedicated time to helping others in his community, even if his community exists of mainly \"illegal\" citizens. As a non US person, I really don't understand the whole \"he's been here for 40 years, had 3 kids, has worked for the whole time, bought a house, contributed to the economy, his kids have contributed...\" And the list goes on... \"What an illegal cunt, kick him and all his family out the absolute scum bags\"\n\nIt really needs to be means tested. Those that have been in the US for anything more than 5 years need to PROVE that they contribute, and paying taxes isn't the only way to contribute. You can sit on your fat ass for 30 years paying taxes, but never once making your community a nicer place to live. You can pay taxes whilst committing felonies left right and centre and being a general dick.", "Or changing it (the law). Or findings legal alternatives. Or simply understanding that there is often no easy solution and our own personal views are allowed to conflict. For example there was a similar case that went before a judge. The guy was a model citizen and the judge phoned a senator and they were able to expedite his citizenship status. In the case at hand if an exception was made or his file ''accidentally'' fell into a trash can I would not care. I would personally break the law for that guy assuming he was a stand up guy. ", "He’s definitely a manchild that lives in their parent’s house. ", ">He was in the country for 20 as an adult. That is a long time to get things sorted out legally which he did not do.\n\nThere is literally nothing he could have done to \"sort things out legally,\" because there is currently no real path to citizenship for people who enter the US without papers. There's no way he could have changed his status, other than saying goodbye to his family, perhaps permanently, and moving to a \"foreign\" (to him) country at age 18 with no money, no friends, and less familiarity with their laws and customs than here in the U.S. ", "There is no way for him to earn citizenship.", "You're not wrong, Walter, you're just an asshole.", "So, he had 30 years to correct or address this issue and didn't? And that's whos fault again?", "You know absolutely zero about the person you’re talking to. Generalize much?", "If you use a fake or someone else’s ss# then yes. I doubt he raised and supported a family working jobs that paid under the table.", "It's if you live illegally in the US for 1 consecutive year and get caught, they you're banned from the US for 10 years. \n\nDamn 11 year olds, not responsible enough to leave the country and apply for citizenship. ", "This guy's wife is a USC and his kids are presumably USC's. This guy needed a better immigration attorney. I can tell you in my time working with the ICE office of legal counsel repping the gov in immigration courts, this guy would've gotten a pass from us under the right circumstances.", "Why do people think it’s such a bad thing to move to Mexico? People act like he’s being executed. Lol", "Wow, that's such an incredibly tough situation to be in. I'm so sorry. That just doesn't make any sense to me. 5 to 18 makes you as much a part of the country as anyone else. That's just insane to me.", "If I commit a crime someone is going to come take me from my family and put me in jail. Will anyone fight for me on reddit? I hope so.", "But have you seen how long/expensive/hard it takes to VISIT legally? It's not really an option when you are a kid with a family that resorted to come in illegally. ", "They WANT to, but they can’t. ", "You can’t apply from within the country if you’re here illegally. There was no path for him to become a legal citizen. That is a large part of the problem. The only way for him to have done this legally would be if he left the US when he was 10 and applied. My guess is he didn’t have that choice... because he was 10.", "Wow you have no idea what im currently going through and you call me an insensitive prick.\n\nHow insensitive.\n\nOkay Ill shave off ten fucking years and say he had 20 years, Ill give him an extra 2 to chill.", "it's unfortunate that america welcomed the orange turd's parents. now our country is a shithole due to trump and his supporters", "> Criminals on Wall Street\n\n\nLike who, specifically?", "parents fault, not his", "Would you give up your citizenships and take his place in Mexico?", "You're fucking retarded", "What legal options were open to him?\n", "Fuck you", "What good is passing a law if someone can just say \"Eh, screw that\". Laws are in place for a reason. It is a difficult situation and I understand the emotional side of the predicament, but that doesn't mean we just throw laws by the wayside. It would be much better to change the law and enforce a new law instead of ad-hoc bypassing laws.", "Lost fans are going to be pissed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Garcia", "If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. Talk to a CPA or an IRS agent sometime. The company I work for is the largest for it's particular field, in the world, and they pay zero taxes because of past losses. They've been reporting record profits every quarter for the last 5+ years if that tells you anything. ", "But they were brought by their parents! \nHow can they be punished for their parents' crime? ", "There is a right way to becoming a citizen and there is a wrong way. He knew better than to just lay low without even trying to go through the legal process.", "To be fair, it is a difficult, slow process. It is expensive if you want to try to expedite things as much as possible. Also to be fair, it is difficult and slow because there are so many people TRYING TO DO IT LEGALLY. To justify violating the legal process for applying for citizenship in the US by using any of the 3 reasons you provided (difficult, slow, expensive) is to literally say \"fuck you\" to the millions of people trying to do it the right way.\n\nThis guy is obviously an exception to the rule in that he was brought here as a child but the system does consider extenuating circumstances like these after the legal citizenship process has begun so it is likely he will be back within a year as a legal citizen. ", "This was also at a time when they literally did not know that coming here would give them diseases the the settlers had built up immunities to, science and medicine did not advance that far. You shouldn't judge ancestors based on what they didn't know, if they didn't know any better, you cannot put it against them fairly.", "This gentleman would have reached the age of majority around 1995. Service didn’t become a path to citizenship until 2002. Enlisting in your late 20’s with a wife and kids in tow is a whole different beast. ", "100% you googled those words ", "I understand just fine. Jorge is an illegal alien, got caught and will now be deported. The way it should be.", "I agree with this guy!", "No because then you'll flood he border with children. It happened after DACA people were \"shocked\" at the influx of children sent across the border illegally when that was inplimented. It's amazing how daft it is to not understand what you allow is what will continue. ", "> how does a mail order bride deserve to become a citizen over someone who has been here since he was a child and unable to make any of his own choices?\n\nI never said they did, neither deserve citizenship.", ">The only thing deporting this man does is make hard line immigration reformers smile with schadenfreude.\n\nWhat about potentially deterring others from immigrating if they know that at any moment they could be deported, after establishing a life here? ", "There is no such thing an as Undocumented American...", "I was wondering the same thing. ", "If the firefighter fails to put out the fire, I'm still thankful for him trying. I'm not going to look at him as equal to the arsonist. ", "I wasn't commenting on the veracity of that report, just that conflating the Examiner with Breitbart is wrong. ", "You can't ignore laws because feelings, I want to live in a society that punishes those who break the law, it doesn't matter if he chose to come here or not, he chose to stay for 30 years illegally, that's more than enough to be deported", "I’m sure all legal immigrants can agree with you on that...including myself. ", "> Crazy country we live in. \n\nFTFY\n\n", "I believe the connection is that MLK fought hard to fight the inherent injustice of discrimination in America. This picture highlights the injustice of deporting someone who was brought here without his consent at age 10, lived here for 30 years with a family and everything, and then is getting deported. That is the injustice that this picture is displaying and the irony that on MLK day, where a man fought hard against unjust American policies, a man is being subjected to similar unjust laws. \n\nThink back to when you were 10. You don’t have much of a say in things, right? Try empathizing with this human being instead of chalking this up to a “Reddit narrative” or whatever negative association that is.\n\nThe lack of empathy on this thread and further dismissal of another humans life while sitting comfortably is truly disturbing. ", "If a guy is chasing you with a chainsaw and wants to kill your entire family, you'd move across the border, too.", "This guy had 30 years to leave the country then apply legally. He made absolutely no effort to do so.", "How much didn't they pay?", "This user could’ve googled a Mexican family at an airport and added a bs caption jus sayin ", "One of the biggest reasons that I dislike Obama. I'm a democrat that voted for him but I still very much dislike him. Only reason I voted for him was because he was the lesser of 2 evils", "Maybe. Could be subject to a 10 year ban. Could get denied. Could need an expensive lawyer. It's not that easy.", "This is the issue. Whether we find is \"particularly cruel\" is irrelevant. Whether we should change the law has little do to with whether the laws on the books should be enforced.\n\n\n\nIf I were this man, I'd be absolutely and totally devastated. I'm sure his life has been destroyed. But he broke US law regardless, and his presence here was unlawful.\n\n\n\n\nIf you want to change the law such that this doesn't happen again, let's have that conversation. I'd sure support it. But as it stands, the law is what it is, and our subjective feelings on the matter are irrelevant. ", "I didn’t think my comment was rude.", "He had plenty of money (millions). Look into the chances of getting another green card after you've been found to be living in the US illegally.", "\"Wait a minute, I'm an illegal alien because my parents brought me here eight years ago when I was 10. Better leave my entire life and returning to my birth country\"\n\nPretty sure that's a pretty unrealistic expectation. ", "Just because it's MLK day doesn't make it shittier it sucks period.", "> the women are non-existent\n\nFYI - [the majority of college educated white women voted for Trump](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/). ", "Speaking of weak arguments...", "It usually is for young children", "He's not going to see this, but I love this response.\n\nRespond sarcastically to someone calling them ignorant, while being wrong. Gets called out sarcastically and is upset about being treated that way. Gets told why they were treated that way and is upset about that.", "C'mon, baby. Eat the rich.", "Speaker. I'm an English speaker. ", "Yes sadly", "Well there is, people just don't like it. Its currently being handled.", "Adios, amigo! ", "My problem with slippery slope arguments is that all sides on an issue can draw lines and vehemently argue that any inch past it is a slippery slope. I'd rather focus on outcomes over principles. This outcome sucks for everyone, so what about it could possibly be slippery? Would some compassion be a signal to other illegal immigrants that if they work hard, start a family, and pay their taxes, they'd be eligible for the same kind of compassion? Would those incentives be such a bad outcome?", "And everyone has had the exact same path to get it. At least that’s the path according to you. ", "There are things you need to do to become. Citizen. I don't know why he never did them and I'm sure once he goes through the proper channels he'll hopefully become a citizen.", "You need an ID for just about everything else, why not voting? Also more than [half of the countries on earth](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOdf2xoW0AE3jAF.jpg) require an ID to vote, why not us?", "How do you spend 30 years somewhere and not become a citizen? Last month a good friend of mine became a citizen. Completed the process, this guy could have too. ", "You don't try to become a citizen ", "> You had thirty years to get citizenship.\n\nWhat is the path to citizenship for an illegal immigrant?\n", "Criminals on Wall Street are our problem to deal with. Illegal aliens violating our laws aren’t. ", "If my parents sneak me into Disneyland should Disney let me stay for free when we get caught? ", "You said alt-right, not just right-wing. Do you stand by that statement or did you misspeak?", "Except that isn’t illegal.", "so he is paying for his parent's mistake, just because he was 10 doesn't mean everything is allowed. His parents had full custody of him and they came here illegally putting this burden on him and forever leaving him with the illegal label.", "Nope it still results in punishment. Source: I live in a better country", "Merica", "Oh my bad, I forgot breaking into someone’s house and stealing their shit is okay as long as you’re poor, forgot about that statute. ", "That's an odd way to say previous administrations", "What about this guys wife? Did she know and just accept that her husband and father of her children could just be deported at any time? Or did he lie to her for a decade? Seems someone should have spoken up. Two adults, willingly and flagrantly ignoring obvious laws in hopes no one would notice. \n\n\nI have worked with people here in SA who were deported from the US. They KNEW what they were doing and chose to ignore the law in hopes no one would notice. They noticed.", "Maybe it's as simple as that, and assuming it were, there'd be a better way to present it and avoid this \"spanish\" thing anyway right? Better to be beyond reproach.\n\nAnd do you really believe what you're saying anyway? You can claim what he is (and I'm not going to touch that) but the dozens of other comments show what he's coming across as.", "It's easy to say when I'm the one who went through the process legally.", "You get an [ITIN.](https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/taxpayer-identification-numbers-tin#itin)\n\nThe IRS expects their money from everyone, legally present or not. ", "Has nothing to do with “illegal Mexicans” and everything to do with legal immigration. I understand your possible reasons. They’re still not legal justification.\n\nEdit: I’m all for legal immigration and I’m glad you guys are here. I just don’t feel bad when illegal immigrants are deported.", "He's probably not a horrible person, but here's my concerns:\n\n1. Why is it ok that he's lived here 30 years illegally? How is it ok if we treat the people who came illegally the same way we treat those that are legal? Those who moved here legally went through a lot of shit to do it that way. It's not a cakewalk process.\n\n2. Even if he was brought by his parents, the fact remains that he shouldn't have been brought by his parents. If they had to flee their country like refugees, they should have filed for refugee status. If they couldn't do that, they he should not be surprised in any way that he is considered illegal. If you allow these people to attain citizenship after the crime committed by their parents, then you're setting an example that all parents should illegally enter the country and raise their kids illegally here because the country will eventually allow them to become citizens.\n\n3. Being a criminal and being a citizen of a specific country are unrelated to each other. I'm not saying criminal citizens are ok, but it's not an apples to apples comparison.\n\n", "Thanks for reddit stalking me. Currently work for CBP/OFO, which paid for my masters degree in DF, but has no jobs in the field. and USCIS does indeed have DF jobs, since cyber fraud and marriage investigation is one of its core tenets... pretty sure you lack some pretty basic reddit detective skills ;)\n\nedit: and I mention I work in FDAU/Fraud docs in another post, and that DF post mentions I'm a sworn LEO... you do suck", "Greetings from Mexico. It is Beautiful here, the people have a generous spirit and they know how to Work-oftentimes seven days a week. You can't understand the problem of him being separated from His Family?", "Once you enter illegally, even after marrying an American you have to go back to your home country to serve a penalty (which could be 5 to 10 years). ", "Fair enough. Does it enable you to do anything else or just to pay taxes?", "Devil's Advocate: Why do so many people sympathize with him? He broke the law and as an adult he could have at least tried to apply for Legal Permanent Residence or attempted to. My parents immigrated legally waited for 5 full years and endless amount of primary and secondary validation and not to mention over $10k between legal and application fees. Why is he exempt from this? Just because one enters the country illegally does not mean they have the right to skip the line. \n\n ", "No. ", "both words describe them perfectly fine. One is considered less offensive and more “formal”. Why is it wrong to choose the less offensive option, given the fact that both describe them accurately?", "You can't apply for citizenship if you crossed the border illegally. How can you have such a strong opinion on his citizenship status and not know this basic fact?", "Yeah?\n\nBecause he grew up in the United States, dummy.", "The funny thing about Obamacare is out of all of those it became the default way of referring to the AHA, even Obama himself uses it. ", "He's been facing an order of removal from immigration courts since 2009. I'm not making a judgement call either way, but this should not have come as a shock to him or his family.", "why can't his wife and loved ones go back to Mexico with him?", "For some reason, every country in the world is allowed to have immigration laws...except the United States. \n\nCome legally, just like every other nation in the world. It isn't rocket science. ", "Assuming some have to be bots", "Right.. because all crimes are equal.", "Because you are not meant to be there? Sorry but sometimes life deals you a shit hand. I feel sorry for them but I also feel sorry for people born with foetal alcohol syndrome and the children of drug addicts who suffer through no fault of their own but their parents.\n\nIts like your parents buying a big expensive house and lots of nice things and for years living a life that is like that before finding out your parents stole all the money and now you have nothing. Not your fault but you still lose the house you lived in for 10 years and all your shit.", "Your ignorance and general stupidity are showing again.", "Lol name another civilized country that just let’s anyone in and doesn’t deport illegals. My country will deport you in a second if you’re an illegal as will most others. Don’t pretend America is wrong for deporting them", "Yeah, he should have moved back to Mexico on his 18th birthday.", "what about that kid that hid in costco for a while and then got kicked out?", "Goodbye Felicia ", "lol bye felicia", "Thanks! good to know ICE is doing its job.\n\nKeep up the good work boys!", "This man arrived here illegally with his parents as a kid. That kid may never know his legal status until it affects him as an adult because his parents did a hell of a job covering up that secret. Does a kid become aware of legal matters such as immigration as a kid and tries to fix from that first day in America? ", "No, he destroyed his family. He willingly chose to break the law.\n\n> The man pays his taxes and does not practice tax avoidance.\n\nSo other criminals should just get a pass because they might pay their taxes and are a net benefit? \"Your honor, you can't punish my husband for his crime! You, the judge, would be responsible for destroying our family!\"", "Well ya of course I thought it was a Utopia. I was brought up on the American dream.", "how perfect is your life, when something as irrelevant and \"small\" is all it takes to \"break your heart\".... jesuus ", "Because it’s all you know before ten how much do you remember.? That was normal everyday stress to him...", "It works the same way in every country. You need to apply to become a legal immigrant. When you don’t do this, you’re an illegal immigrant. Expressedly simple and something NOBODY should be scratching their head over.", "Hey they're just doing they're jobs amirite? /s", "PR is part of the US, therefore Puerto Ricans are Americans - there is no immigration. ", "You didn't hear about the White Genocide funded by George Soros and the government of Mexico with manpower help from the drug cartels shipping heroin in via black helicopters in order to kill white people by OD? /s", "RIP. What’s your problem? Dude just said he works and pays into programs that he might never profit from and you being up fraud. You get to decide what story you tell yourself about the world. You could use a little more empathy. Good luck to you. ", "No you can also blame the laws and the people who make them.", "pretty damn good lesson to those thinking of coming illegally", "As an AMERICAN, this is a head scratcher for me too. You've lived and contributed to this country for 30 years (maybe dodged some taxes, but I wouldn't complain about that either) and have likely held a harder/more necessary job that most wouldn't want to deal with as a career. But we still need every worker in every profession tho progress as a whole. \n\nBut hey, at least we'll have some millennial to replace him and bitch about not getting a Starbucks break every hour.\n\nTL;DR: most non-americans are harder workers than americans and it pisses me off when you deport honest, hard working people like that. ", "demorats like to ignore facts and history", "> so in 30 years he couldnt manage to get legal but its republicans fault?\n\nWhat mechanism existed for him to 'get legal?'\n", "I don't really think he had a choice considering he was 10 when he illegally immigrated to the US", "Because he is racist obviously? You don’t see ICE deporting Europeans and Canadians overstaying their visas.", "The guy literally said \"stupid fucking administration\" and usually that implies it's Donnie's fault. ", "Why would he do that? And why do you assume he needs the money?", "How about ICE spent a bunch of resources on deporting this guy, when there are gang members here illegally committing crimes everyday.\n\nYou'd rather police officers finish writing a ticket for jay walking when the bank robbers across are holding children hostage. ", "Glad to know we've got our priorities straight. ", "You're asking how having a sane immigration policy makes America great? Is that a real question?\n\nLet's all go commit whatever crimes we want because there are crooks on Wall Street! HURDUR", "What a shithole system", "I was in a similar situation and it is extremely if not impossible to fix your status while in the country. I must have spoken to half a dozen lawyers at different period of time and they all said the same thing \"maybe the laws will change you'll just have to wait it out\". It wasen't my choice to have grown up in the states, but the way people talk about DACA and non-DACA recipients it seems that we're still to blame. ", "He was brought here at age 10.if you are illegal you are not allowed to apply for citizenship. It's not like he was putting it off for 30 years. ", "I've seen it a few times but the person usually gets laughed at now.", "The thing that keeps politicians from working together is the fact that one side wants something that cannot exist with the other. I don't want to work with republicans or compromise with the Trump administration. I will not give them that legitimacy. It's not about some fanciful ideas of third parties or that kind of nonsense, it's about the fact that the two parties get lumped together when they share nothing in common. ", "Yah the guy had 30 years to figure this out. Yah it sucks, but that is why we have laws.", ">Democrats invented this nonsense and live by it today.\n\n\nWhich party gets offended at 'Happy Holidays'?\n\nAlso, didn't the CDC ban some words because they knew Republicans would get offended by them?\n\n\"diversity,\" \"fetus,\" \"transgender,\" \"vulnerable,\" \"entitlement,\" \"science-based\" and \"evidence-based.\" are obviously words we should not be saying around Republicans. Don't want to offend them or anything.\n", "Should I have just copy/pasted what the guy under you wrote? I mean you seem more eager to know than anything but regardless you created a racial epithet and coated in the guise of a political leaning you disagree with. How much more racist can you be? You think it’s not racism because you think your ideology is protecting you. \nSad.", "If you sneak into disney land and work there for 30 years and then they kick you out because you snuck in\n\nFixed that analogy for you. Oh but your an immigrant too so fuck him, you got yours.", "Whole reddit has become \"le drumpf bad guise!\" ", "He was 10 years old. ", "If enforcing the law is what defines racism then you're suggesting that racism as you define it is morally good.\n\nLuckily the law doesn't enforce racism, so your definition doesn't hold water.", "it has laws and shit... fuck that right?", "[Quick, arm the downvotes!](https://imgur.com/a/UNlqp)", "It’s impossible for someone to apply for a green card with a student/visitor visa unless they’re married or a company sponsors them. Even if a company sponsors them, they need to get an H1B visa (which is given out at random) and then you need to stay another 5 years to apply for a green card. \n\nImmigration to US is extremely difficult. ", "DACA isn't a legal status anyway. He could still have been deported. Follow the law, or you run the risk of deportation. ", "The \"Tax Foundation\" is a very biased organisation, founded by businessmen purely to criticize high taxes. That information might be accurate but that's not a proper source...", "Then that was his option. He doesn’t get to just stay here because he doesn’t like his other options. That’s against the law.", "That’s surprising. Most government employees are off today. \nAlso why is this on r/pics?", "How exactly?? There's no way of obtaining the right to stay here for him so what exactly was he to do. It's ridiculous that anyone thinks he should be sent back.", "Yes stay in Canada, they would have never deported the person in question, right? ", "Sorry, form dweebs handle that. I-130 starts the process and that's all I see on my side, information sharing being what it is.", "There are other legal residency statuses you can have other than citizenship... ", "I bet they don't pay income tax. Why? Because they pay capital gain tax.", "(Then don't be in a country illegally)", "Positive change \n\nKilling\n\nPick one", "That is a poor argument. Next, you're going to argue that black people have higher rates of incarceration because they should know better. \n\n(key point here is that education isn;t universal). ", "I'm Australian and believe me, we have the same thing here. People fall in line ideologically, on both sides of the fence, even when they say they hate something and then later say they love something simply because their side changed sides on the matter.\n\nProbably the most relevant example I can think of is [people singing the praise of Bernie's tax plan when it's described to them, only to be told that it's actually Trump's plan](https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9997).\n\nI know this was an example of the left falling for this but the right does it all the time too. It's not a partisan issue.", "Such an intelligent argument", "No it's not. What the fuck are you talking about?", "Republicans have been trying to control it for decades.", "So there is actually a waiver if you enter illegally as a child. You have until you are 18 and 6months to leave the US without penalty. Some who do this have an easier path as they have a US education and may have applied to college or trade school before returning to their home country. \n\n\nOf course you would have to plan and have the resources to fly home, stay until your paperwork is done and pay for the visa. \n\n\nSo there is a pathway for children brought here illegally to return legally it just takes a lot of money and planning.", "\"THANKS A LOT, MOM AND DAD\" - Jorge, probably ", "Literally everyone in the US except Native Americans can claim to come from a family of immigrants.", "Source?", "At bare minimum we should give people like this a path to citizenship, rather than sending him away. He’s got a family. He’s an American. This is unconscionable. ", "He was a child. It's not like he would have decided otherwise.", "DACA works for kids up to age 15. This guy may not qualify, but age is not the reason.\n\nEdit: His family arrived in 1987. That’s one year after the Reagan amnesty of 1986. That might be why his particular age group is excluded.", "> now that one more illegal alien is no longer costing the tax payer money.\n\nIt says he was paying taxes and working, not living off benefits.", "While this is horrible, he did have 30 years to go through the process of becoming a citizen right? Am I missing something?", "> His hypothetical doesn’t matter.\n\nExcept it's not hypothetical. Do you even know what the word means? \n\n>The fact is he broke the law\n\nHe was brought here by his parents. He grew up here. This is his home, his country. He didn't willingly break the law, and if you need to move hundreds of miles from your childhood home to comply with the law that you didn't choose to break, then it's the law that's broken.\n\n> and must pay for it like anyone else.\n\nExcept Melania Trump. What the fuck is this anyways? Why do y'all get a boner when an innocent man, taking care of his family after his parents broke the law and dragged him with them, gets torn from his family and sent to a country he doesn't know? ", "Haha i felt nostalgic using it.", "Those are two such vastly different examples. ", "You can get citizenship easier than that if you're rich enough to have a million dollars in cash just lying around. \n\nAlso... getting citizenship through a fake marriage aint so straightforward. They really grill you to make sure it's legit. Source: am currently getting citizenship through marriage in a western country and have a friend who is jumping through hoops to get US citizenship through a legit marriage. ", "So when faced with a logical statement, you cross your arms/stomp your feet and just say no? Just because something is a law doesn’t make it right. \n\nIt used to be against the law for women to vote. It used to be against the law to buy booze. Why don’t you join us on the right side of history. ", "And yet they still manage to amass half the countries wealth. ", "Even as an American, it's a head scratcher for me, too.", "Illegal immigrant. No pity. ", "How is the Democratic Party supposed to import more voters from developing countries though?", "I said \"to many Americans\" which is 100% true. I never said to all Americans. You are totally correct, to many Americans it is absolute justice. But to many other Americans it is an injustice. ", "If you're in the country illegally, you can't apply for citizenship.", "Then we as taxpayers have to pay for them to be in prison.", "https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/WeightyJitteryKakapo", "Great, support the illegal residence that’s your choice. But the fact remains he willingly broke the law and has to deal the consequences now. ", "I'm pretty sure you 100% implied that", "How he \"pays\" and what constitutes breaking the law is exactly the issue at hand. Having a functioning government means putting together a justice system that actually delivers a just outcome", "Note how there's far more variation of language and general theme in the sympathetic posts than in the flood of right wing ones.", "Then do it.", "People don't understand that making any attempt to become a permanent resident would reveal that he's illegal, and would subsequently get him deported. But hey, let's shit on guys like him because they make great scapegoats.", "> Probably\n\nCitation needed", "No, he's right. You* can go fuck yourself. Criminals are criminals. Get him the flip outta here.", "Not only are they not eligible for refunds, they're not eligible for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, or pretty much any kind of government service besides education. I wonder how many people living in states that take more from the federal government than they pay in taxes have their government services subsidized by illegal immigrants in states that use less government services than they pay for in taxes, like California and New York.", "Good.", "Yeah... Thats how the world and the human mind work. \n\nAre you retarded?", "Exactly, and it took up much of that Congress's time and political capital to pass.", "His casa!", "When people say administration, they generally mean the head of the executive branch.", "Shhhhh that doesn’t fit his narrative.", "ILLEGAL \nNot undocumented. \n30 years to become legal. It's a law. ", "I actually surprised and happy to see the amount of people calling out Reddit's narrative. \n", "Then change them legally. 2 houses of Congress and a presidential signature. Not just throw up a random sob story as an argument they should be ignored. \n\nDamn we need to bring back schoolhouse rock and teach some people how a bill becomes a law. ", "Liberals and conservatives should agree that the laws should be enforced as they are, unless changed or amended by the legislature.", "He has been here 30 years and no citizenship? He is part of the problem. Bye bye then. No remorse for that behavior", "Where is your compassion? He was brought here as a CHILD.", "During his 30 years there was a large period where he could have applied. The law hasn't been this way for 30 years. In fact it wasn't too far back (late 80s early 90s) that he could have taken a test to gain citizenship while here \"illegally\".", "Hey look, a redditor who has critical thinking skills!", "Why do we always have to argue about this. You're either here legally or illegally. If you're illegal then you must go. Sorry it's not politically correct but it is what it is. ", "Don't strawman the issue. He's suggesting that maybe there should be a path to citizenship for people who have been here for years and have shown themselves capable of being model citizens. Laws exist to serve people, and it seems that's often forgotten in favor of blind obedience. ", "Simple; bankers are White. This man is not White. MAGA.\n\n/s", ">He had 22yrs to get citizenship. \n\nHe couldn't get citizenship while here illegally (at least not until 2013, when waivers to the rule were introduced.) Since he had been here for over one year consecutively, he would have faced a ten-year ban on re-entry. ", "Good bot", "It’s his fault and anyone else from any country that needs to obtain their residence status and change. 30 years to never act on that is criminal.", "Simply put, these Wall Street sharks can afford to hire a top-notch attorney. We are a nation of laws and both sides should face consequences. ", "No I'm into legal immigration", "You must be new to Reddit. Since Jan of last year \"stupid fucking administration\" refers to only one administration. ", "You can’t pursue citizenship from within the county if you’re here illegally/undocumented. He didn’t have a path to pursue it. That’s a large part of the problem. There needs to be a path where if you’re brought in illegally/undocumented as a child, you can apply for citizenship when you turn 18 and can actually control your life.", "We only control one side of it. You should look up the horror stories of illegal immigrants and the torture those gangs put them through before they get here.", "Yeah, he has a hardline stance until a new law is passed. It's a completely reasonable stance to have.", "Oh my god. What the fuck is going on in the US!?", "...Damn...", "The fact is he had 30 years to get citizenship and refused. Get your emotions out of this.", "And?\n\nYou're gonna tell me he didn't know in that 30 year span his family wasn't here legally? If his wife was here legally then it would have been an easy fix. ", "> No, just Bernie Sanders and Sen. Warren wanted health care for all.\n\nYou're reframing the debate, AND you're wrong. All of the dems in '08 were for \"health care for all.\" The disagreement was on how you get there. The super libs and some moderate libs were for single payer. Most moderate libs and center libs were for a mix of: expand Medicare or expand the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program. Obama eventually landed on the ACA in an attempt to get someone, anyone, from the right to negotiate in good faith in the belief that it would only work long term if it was done with input from both sides. He was forced to do that because of not just his idealism, but the political reality of part of his majority coalition not being willing to do single payer. This is the same reason why Trump couldn't repeal the ACA ... part of his conservative majority won't go for it (Collins, Snowe, McCain, Murkowski, etc). ", "We are a long way from compassionate conservatism (and even THAT was very compassionate a lot of the time)", "Same thing that's stopping you from going back where your family came from.", "Ok well nobody better do anything bad on Hot and Spicy Food Day.", "So thats your rebuttal? To keep blaming trump and generating more hate? Executive order or not this still would have happened. You can be a sad, angry person the rest of your life or you can get off your ass and work towards change.", "Are you serious? Are you actually fucking serious? Why should the \"sins\" of the father pass to the son? What the hell is wrong with you that you think what you just said is in any way able to justify deporting this man?", "When some asshole is driving slow and im gonna miss my exit or die.\n\nThere are different levels of crime.", "Bye Felicia\n\nKarma is a Bitch", "Here are more studies show that illegal/undocumented immigration are a NET POSITIVE to the US economy:\n\nhttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/do-illegal-immigrants-actually-hurt-the-us-economy.html\n\n>Giovanni Peri, an economist at the University of California, Davis, has written a series of influential papers comparing the labor markets in states with high immigration levels to those with low ones. He concluded that undocumented workers do not compete with skilled laborers — instead, they complement them. Economies, as Adam Smith argued in “Wealth of Nations,” work best when workers become specialized and divide up tasks among themselves. Pedro Chan’s ability to take care of routine tasks on a work site allows carpenters and electricians to focus on what they do best. In states with more undocumented immigrants, Peri said, skilled workers made more money and worked more hours; the economy’s productivity grew. From 1990 to 2007, undocumented workers increased legal workers’ pay in complementary jobs by up to 10 percent.\n\n>There are many ways to debate immigration, but when it comes to economics, there isn’t much of a debate at all. Nearly all economists, of all political persuasions, agree that immigrants — those here legally or not — benefit the overall economy. “That is not controversial,” Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute, told me. Shierholz also said that “there is a consensus that, on average, the incomes of families in this country are increased by a small, but clearly positive amount, because of immigration.” \n\n>The benefit multiplies over the long haul. As the baby boomers retire, the post-boom generation’s burden to finance their retirement is greatly alleviated by undocumented immigrants. Stephen Goss, chief actuary for the Social Security Administration, told me that undocumented workers contribute about $15 billion a year to Social Security through payroll taxes. They only take out $1 billion (very few undocumented workers are eligible to receive benefits). Over the years, undocumented workers have contributed up to $300 billion, or nearly 10 percent, of the $2.7 trillion Social Security Trust Fund.\n\nFrom the right wing think tank, CATO Institute: \n\n>• Daniel T. Griswold, former Director of the Herbert A. Stiefel Center for Trade Policy Studies at the Cato Institute, concludes that “basic economic analysis and numerous empirical studies have confirmed that immigrants boost the productive capacity of the United States through their labor, their human capital, and their entrepreneurial spirit. Instead of competing head-to-head with American workers, immigrants typically complement native-born workers by filling niches in the labor market.”\n\n\nhttps://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/cutting-immigration-myths-down-size\n\n>Myth number five: Immigrants depress the wages and working conditions of American citizens. New widely cited research purportedly by the Bureau of Labor Statistics declares that immigrants are responsible for “about 50 percent of the decline in real wages for the lowest-skilled workers.” Yet this “study” was never sanctioned or endorsed by the BLS. It is also contradicted by virtually all other studies on the subject. According to economist George Borjas, who is often cited by the opponents of immigration: “The methodological arsenal of modern econometrics cannot detect a single shred of evidence that immigrants have a sizeable adverse impact on the earnings and employment opportunities of natives.” For example, in the 1980s the U.S. accepted 7 million new immigrants, but unemployment fell sharply and family incomes rose. \n\nhttp://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy\n\n\n>When analyzed from the vantage point of information derived from reputable, nonpartisan sources (the Pew Research Center, USDA, United States Department of Labor, and leading economists and researchers) then one can obtain a clearer view of this muddled discussion. The truth of the matter is that illegal immigrants are important to the U.S. economy, as well as vital to certain industries like agriculture.\n\n>Their importance was highlighted in a report by Texas Comptroller Susan Combs that stated, “Without the undocumented population, Texas’ work force would decrease by 6.3 percent” and Texas’ gross state product would decrease by 2.1 percent. Furthermore, certain segments of the U.S. economy, like agriculture, are entirely dependent upon illegal immigrants.\n\n>The USDA has also warned that, “any potential immigration reform could have significant impacts on the U.S. fruit and vegetable industry.” From the perspective of National Milk Producers Federation in 2009, retail milk prices would increase by 61 percent if its immigrant labor force were to be eliminated. \n\n\n>But what about the immense strain on social services and money spent on welfare for these law breakers? The Congressional Budget Office in 2007 answered this question in the following manner: “Over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use.” According to the New York Times, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration claims that undocumented workers have contributed close to 10% ($300 billion) of the Social Security Trust Fund.\n\n>Finally, the aggregate economic impact of illegal immigration is debatable, but any claim that they’ve ruined the country doesn’t correlate to the views of any notable economist. An open letter to President George W. Bush in 2006, signed by around five hundred economists (including five Nobel laureates) stated the following: “While a small percentage of native-born Americans may be harmed by immigration, vastly more Americans benefit from the contributions that immigrants make to our economy, including lower consumer prices.”\n\n\n", "In this case it's basically like he wasn't dealt a hand at all.", "Why should getting married make you a legal?\nHey I murdered someone 30 years ago when I was younger, but I got married since then. So I shouldn’t have to far punishment. ", "Nothing to do with MLK day, but cool", "And leave his family for 5-10 years? You’re right may as well volunteer for the same fate you may or may not have ended up meeting to do things the right way. ", "I seriously wonder how they could prove intent. My girlfriend moved here for college. But like in any relationship I may want to marry her one day. But is that intent? Am I not allowed to think about marriage? She moved here to go to college, but I worry she would get in trouble if she applied for a marriage visa in a few years. ", "As far as I understand, he would have had to stay outside the US for 10 years before applying to come back. If you had a family here would you want to leave them for 10 years? Would you be able to support them here while working in Mexico?", "So you're claiming that it's okay to bypass our laws if you bring a child here and let then grow up? You're incentivising people to break the law by advocating for free citizenship for their children if they sneak in here. ", "I heard Canada is very accepting of immigrants regardless of their citizenship status", "That sucks, but why not pursue citizenship or residency in over 30 years? \n\nVery irresponsible, hermano.", "\nEveryone's guilty, really. Illegals don't care about immigration law; employers (both the well-connected or just cheap) are happy to pay someone $3/hour cash w/ no benefits.\n\nGovernment doesn't/didn't care (the IRS doesn't look too closely at SSN fraud, for example) because cheap labour means lower prices, which equals happy voters.", "i realize that, but i always vote and everyone i know votes so sometimes i forget.", "I'm pretty sure there even used to be a rule that pics didn't allow random pictures of text or a picture of a guy hugging and adding a [backstory] tag. If there wasn't a rule, the sub definitely used to not be cool with that kind of shit. imo pics should be decent pictures, not sob stories or political statements. \n\nI feel terrible for this guy, I'm a university student with linguistics & language majors, I know plenty of people on visas and I've worked with plenty of illegals. That being said, there's got to be a better place for this. I guess I should unsub and move to /r/pic, but it's a far less active community. ", "From where? Every country has a separate waiting list. Mexico's waiting list is 21 years. ", "So 1/3 the amount of time this guy was here? ", "and it's ironic that this is happening on MLK day cause this is the same thing that happened to African families during U.S. slavery. ", "Considering he owned a company that worked directly with numerous government agencies and was granted access into places like the FBI to give presentations and help with cases, I'm gonna go ahead and guess his papers were good.", "That's one of those statements that is technically true, but also a complete lie", "There are other things to consider, though.\n\nWhat happens to social programs when we open our doors to anyone who wants in? Do the people currently dependent on social security, who worked for 40+ years to earn it, deserve to lose the income they rely on due to the increased strain on an already limited resource?\n\nShould the government of the US, sworn to represent US citizens, place the well-being of it's own people first, or cast them onto the streets to make way for new people? \n\nThere is a process to follow, and while it may not be fair to some people, removing it completely is just as unfair to the people who already live here.", "I liked that. People used Obamacare as a pejorative so he decided to just own it.", "I'm Canadian! Love you guys, sorry for picking, was just poking fun.\n\nBit younger than you by roughly half but I'd say our five biggest moments of shame while I've been alive have been...\n\nResidential Schools, the Somalia Affair, selling weapons to the Saudis, muzzling climate scientists and releasing Justin Bieber on the world.\n\nMostly in that order...mostly.\n\nYours?", "Feeeeeeeeeeeelings", "Perhaps, but it isn't tax evasion, in fact the guy would have been putting money into the system that he could never withdrawal through programs he wouldn't qualify for.\n\nZoom look at you move those goal posts! ", "Because things called laws.", ">racists.\n\nIn other words, their base.", "Another cowardly use of the sarcasm tag. God I detest that thing. How insecure are you that you're afraid your obvious sarcasm might be misconstrued by strangers on the internet?\n\nIs \"privilege\" when your parents bring you to a country illegally and you stay there for 30 years making no effort to legitimize your citizenship then have the law apply to you the same as everyone else and people think you're the victim?", "Most countries in the world have those exact rules. Novody accepts \"illegal immigrants\", and most countries don't accept people just \"applying\".\n\nA DUI is a serious thing. You broke the law while in a foreign country, which probably means you broke it willingly.\n\nKids whose parents got them into the country illegally, most likely didn't make that choice. It's not the same, and that's why DACA was created.\n\nBTW, you don't need to own a business to go to Canada, or be wealthy. You can apply for a specialist job, and in many many cases, you'll get it. Many individuals outside the country have skills Canadians don't, and they will obtain jobs easier. In case of extreme scenarios, Canada.\n\nAlso, Canada accepted about 69% of illegal border crossers into Canada in 2017, and the numbers were similar in 2016.", "He was 10 years old and there isn't any way to gain citizenship if you arrived in the USA illegally. What could he have done? He got married and had kids and has been there for 30 years. He couldn't do anything except hope he wouldn't be deported. Certainly you can't say this is a good thing...why not get all of those \"thugs, rapists, and criminals\" Trump says are here illegally instead of someone who was brought here when he was 10?", "Good job by ICE deporting another illegal immigrant. Bravo. Keep up the good work!", "We should start boycotting American brands and companies, deporting illegal Americans and ending NAFTA right away.", "I believe the connection is that MLK fought hard to fight the inherent injustice of discrimination in America. This picture highlights the injustice of deporting someone who was brought here without his consent at age 10, lived here for 30 years with a family and everything, and then is getting deported. That is the injustice that this picture is displaying and the irony that on MLK day, where a man fought hard against unjust American policies, a man is being subjected to similar unjust laws. \n\nThink back to when you were 10. You don’t have much of a say in things, right? Try empathizing with this human being instead of chalking this up to a “Reddit narrative” or whatever negative association that is.\n\nThe lack of empathy on this thread and further dismissal of another humans life while sitting comfortably is truly disturbing. ", "Everyone acts like our citizenship process is the worst in the world when basically everywhere else has an extreme merit based system", "And yet they have more than 50% of the wealth. So they're paying less tax per dollar saved than the remaining 99% of the population.\n\nedit: For the naysayers:\n\nhttps://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/14/richest-1-percent-now-own-half-the-worlds-wealth.html\n\nI'm surprised how much this comment has been upvoted, but I'm also surprised at how bad so many of you are at understanding the fundamental underpinnings of the consumer economy. The end game for economic growth is not maximum amassed wealth, but rather maximum recirculating wealth. This makes everyone feel rich. Hoarding wealth only leads to greater disparity which inevitably leads to revolution, guillotines, and what I'll euphemistically refer to as \"forced redistribution\" of wealth. Don't be greedy, pay your fair share based on wealth rather than income, and you'll find that everyone feels rich and the economy as a whole becomes a vibrant and bustling place. Get greedy, and eventually either you \"win\" by literally starving everyone else to death, or you \"lose\" by getting murdered by an angry mob.", "I don't believe he had a visa to begin with and if you're already in the U.S. illegally, you can't apply for one. Also the \"fucking law\" only applies to the poor.", "He was brought here as a kid. He had no choice and he predates DACA. ", "You should have some empathy. Wow ", ">It's frustrating to see ICE go for low-hanging fruit.\n\nIt's frustrating but it works, ICE are people too and they don't want to conduct arrests that will put them in harms way on a regular basis. Getting an illegal immigrant who is working under the table at a restaurant is far less risky than going after a suspected drug dealer, and the former has the added bonus of potentially taking down the owner of the restaurant too.\n\nNice people also have a habit of incriminating as many people as they can in order to help themselves too.\n\nI swear if Reddit had the power to control ICE stings there'd be no ICE officers left by the end of the week.\n\n", "You don't need a SSN to pay taxes. Even Illegal Aliens can pay taxes by applying for a Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN) from the IRS.", "This is fucked", "Doesn't mean he's a good or a bad guy. Just looks to me like he loves his family.", "Being an American makes you pretty special. We aren't even the most special, being born in the EU gives better benefits. There are a lot of people around the world who would much rather live in Mexico compared to where they live now, too bad you can't just up and move somewhere illegally then expect no problems.\n\nFuck citizenship and borders I guess? lmao", "Government solving the hard problems of deporting a ... Hard working tax paying dude, probably pushing his family's into poverty, for his crime of being a kid who got brought into the country?\n\nIt's not like we have Pharma execs causing an opiate epidemic or a couple of wars, growing white supremacists movements, Nazis running citizens over in cars, or the highest gun violence rate of any Western country. Nah. \n\nThis guy was the problem.\n\n/s\n\nAbolish ICE.", "You do realize remittances to Mexico alone are 3% of their entire economy right?\n\nMoney from illegal immigrants is a larger part of Mexico's economy than their entire natural gas and oil industry.\n\n\nThis isn't conspiracy theory stuff man. Any significant change in our immigration and border policy has huge consequences on the Mexican economy.", "we should start everyone here on a path to citizenship and couple it with much stricter and tougher controls to prevent people from coming illegally from now on. That way, parents bringing children will be prevented from doing so and we won't run in to this problem.", "Then you'll have a guaranteed \"reward\" for illegal immigration, increasing the number of illegal immigrants. This man's example shows that you can stay under the radar for more than 10 years. \n\nI think what needs to be done is easier legal immigration.", "He doesn’t care because your list is stupid, and your insistence that the US is responsible for all the ills of the world is borderline conspiratorial.", ">The only thing deporting this man does is make hard line immigration reformers smile with schadenfreude.\n\nEspecially today... ", "> The vast majority of economist argue that immigration, even illegal immigration, is a net positive to the US economy. \n\nFor businesses and politicians. What about all the poor, unskilled people who lose their jobs to illegal labor? Are you going to suggest their lives are better when their towns have a mass influx of illegal immigrants?\n\nEdit: I can't reply to the guy below due to the locked thread, but Americans never had problems working crops. They were priced out most construction and food industry work already due to illegal migrants. Americans did that work for generations and would still do so if they weren't competing against $5/hr illegal labor.\n\n", "Holy shit, the amount of intolerance and lack of empathy is nauseating. ", "What happened to you? Who hurt you?", "Don't be a turd. It's literally impossible for him to apply for any type of legal status because of how he was brought in.\n\nWe'd solve this problem if we just had open borders with our neighbors.\n", "I also can't help and look at this situation and wonder what the long term consequences are. \n\nOh, you think these people are criminals? How likely is it that a young, impoverished son of immigrants will turn to criminal activities in his life? Now how likely is it when is father is deported? How much more likely is it this kid might now turn down a path he may not have gone down because the person or people he looked up to the most were taken away from him? Especially with a brand new anti government chip on his shoulder. ", "No you can't. That's not how the world works. Grow up.", "Should we start punishing children for the crimes of their parents?\n\nWe could do that whole Korean three generations thing.", "Amen. Ciao fucker.", "Not arguing with him. Don't know how you got that.", "And that’s why people like you suck. You have the intelligence and empathy of a country bigot. Pretty fucking pathetic.", "Seriously, the guy lived here for 30 fucking years and likely had no choice in coming here. You can't let an innocent person have a life and family here for three decades and just take that away from them.", "If my parents were criminal bank robbers would I still be allowed to benefit from their crimes 30 years later. Sorry asshole your parents fucked up.\n", "[What? Are you retarded? Like, fully not at all functioning? Can you read?](https://www.didyouknow.gop/) ", "Ok, then do that. He had 20 years.", "He is AN AMERICAN! PLEASE RETURN HIM TO AMERICA!!!!", "> spotless record\n\nWorking illegally is a crime. Staying in the country after his 18th birthday is also a crime. He never bothered even trying to get legal. ", "I imagine this makes the mother eligible for assistance now--having kids with no father in the country? \n\nNot only does deporting this guy remove his contribution of taxes, but it also increases the cost by putting the mother and children on \"the government dole.\"\n\nSo economically conservative!", "So your parents sneak you into Disneyland by climbing the fence at night. The next day your parents get kicked out. Disney kicks you out too, and Disney is the bad guy? LOL no. ", "The mentality of Trump supporters. No fucking empathy at all. ", "ikr...fucken blacks drinking out of the wrong fountain, women trying to vote...I feel bad for them, but the laws the law!", "Fuck illegals. ", "totally thought this was the guy from high times mag grow guides", "If I were in that situation I would do that. It looks like his penalty is 10 years before he can come back to America. So moving his family seems like the first choice. And I don't assume he needs the money. I was just piggyback ingredients on the conversation ", "Lol GTFO", "No, American conservatives did. ", "This man should have considered the possible consequences of having a family here while not living here legally. That is on him. He should have taken steps to become a legal resident before even thinking about starting a family. ", "Thought the exact same thing. Erowid & bluelight were the staples of the wilder side of my teen years.", "\n>“I imagine you already know that I am much more socialistic in my economic theory than capitalistic… [Capitalism] started out with a noble and high motive… but like most human systems it fell victim to the very thing it was revolting against. So today capitalism has out-lived its usefulness.” – Letter to Coretta Scott, July 18, 1952.\n\n-\n\n >“In a sense, you could say we’re involved in the class struggle.” –Quote to New York Times reporter, José Igelsias, 1968.\n\n-\n\n>“And one day we must ask the question, ‘Why are there forty million poor people in America? And when you begin to ask that question, you are raising questions about the economic system, about a broader distribution of wealth.’ When you ask that question, you begin to question the capitalistic economy. And I’m simply saying that more and more, we’ve got to begin to ask questions about the whole society…” –Speech to Southern Christian Leadership Conference Atlanta, Georgia, August 16, 1967.\n-\n\n>“Capitalism forgets that life is social. And the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism, but in a higher synthesis.” –Speech to Southern Christian Leadership Conference Atlanta, Georgia, August 16, 1967.\n\n-\n\n>“Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all God’s children.” – Speech to the Negro American Labor Council, 1961.\n\n-\n\n >“We must recognize that we can’t solve our problem now until there is a radical redistribution of economic and political power… this means a revolution of values and other things. We must see now that the evils of racism, economic exploitation and militarism are all tied together… you can’t really get rid of one without getting rid of the others… the whole structure of American life must be changed. America is a hypocritical nation and [we] must put [our] own house in order.”- Report to SCLC Staff, May 1967.\n\n-\n\n>“The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and evils of racism.” –Speech to SCLC Board, March 30, 1967.\n\n-\n\n>“I am now convinced that the simplest approach will prove to be the most effective – the solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a now widely discussed matter: the guaranteed income… The curse of poverty has no justification in our age. It is socially as cruel and blind as the practice of cannibalism at the dawn of civilization, when men ate each other because they had not yet learned to take food from the soil or to consume the abundant animal life around them. The time has come for us to civilize ourselves by the total, direct and immediate abolition of poverty.” – Where do We Go from Here?, 1967.\n\n-\n\n>“You can’t talk about solving the economic problem of the Negro without talking about billions of dollars. You can’t talk about ending the slums without first saying profit must be taken out of slums. You’re really tampering and getting on dangerous ground because you are messing with folk then. You are messing with captains of industry. Now this means that we are treading in difficult water, because it really means that we are saying that something is wrong with capitalism.” – Speech to his staff, 1966.\n\n-\n\n>“[W]e are saying that something is wrong … with capitalism…. There must be better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism.” – Speech to his staff, 1966.\n\n-\n\n>“If America does not use her vast resources of wealth to end poverty and make it possible for all of God’s children to have the basic necessities of life, she too will go to hell.” Speech at Bishop Charles Mason Temple of the Church of God in Christ in support of the Memphis sanitation workers’ strike on March 18th, 1968, two weeks before he was assassinated.\n", "It’s pretty hard to legally immigrate here from Mexico, there’s a lot of other applicants. Would you consider it an option to abandon you life and family with no guarantee of return? \n\nEDIT: also since he lived here for over a year illegally he’s banned from returning for ten years. So unless he left before he was 11 he’s looking at some serious time away.", "Yup and we all know how affordable Obamacare turned out to be. They branded it as such, and people thought it must be true. Oh how wrong they were...", "Are they pouring more money into the economy than they drain out by breaking the law and making enforcement hunt them down? Wonder what the compensation package cost yearly is for a single ICE agent, wonder what the average immigrant puts in. Sorry, but if you can't respect the laws of a country which were put place in a democratic society, you don't deserve to be here, unfortunate as that is, you are a criminal.\n\nSorry guy, I don't care. My family came legally from South America, my parents worked hard, made MANY sacrifices, more than one can imagine. Now some stupid fucking Mexican feels like he can jump the line because he's close, and I guess the obesity level in Mexico is not high enough for him to live like a king. There are MILLIONS MORE like my parents, who want to come to USA, come to Canada, come for a better future, so they work hard meeting the requirements to come into the country LEGALLY, who in return get skipped in line because of illegal immigrants have taken their rightful spot.\n\nI hope this guy never sees his family in the illegally again, we shouldn't even offer him a chance for a temp visa, he's a criminal and has caused hardship to immigrants who deserve to come here.", "Does this make it better that illegal immigrants have the choice to file taxes and receive zero benefits? Should the gov. prosper from slave wages? ", "Why don't they go to America and invest in the country and pay their taxes and work hard and help make the country genuinely great, in order to show that they want to be there?\n\nOh, the horror of having to accept people who want to be there and want to contribute.", "Naturalization mens citizenship. Wikipedia: Naturalization is the process by which U.S. citizenship is granted to a foreign citizen or national after he or she fulfills the requirements established by Congress in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).", "\"They'll give a fake SS number to their job,\" \n\n\nSo fraude? ", "That's why illegals remain illegals.", "It's there. But also from him saying things like:\n\n>Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all God’s children.\n\nAlso:\n\n>A true revolution of values will soon cause us to question the fairness and justice of many of our present policies. On the one hand, we are called to play the Good Samaritan on life's roadside, but that will be only an initial act. One day we must come to see that the whole Jericho Road must be changed so that men and women will not be constantly beaten and robbed as they make their journey on life's highway. True compassion is more than flinging a coin to a beggar. A true revolution of values will soon look uneasily on the glaring contrast of poverty and wealth with righteous indignation...", "\"I disagree with you so you must be retarded.\"\n\nNo sir...you're the retarded one.", "> First off, its fucked up you think drinking and driving is a normal thing.\n\n111 million Americans [admitted to drinking and driving](https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html). There are roughly [220 million registered drivers in the USA](https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/pubs/hf/pl11028/chapter4.cfm). I would argue that 50% rate would put it on average human behavior. \n\n>And finally, its a lot more serious to be here illegally, undocumented, and not paying taxes than it is to occasionally speed\n\nEveryone who lives in the US pays taxes. Everyone. In fact, they (illegal aliens) [pay billions every year](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/). \n\nKey piece:\n\n>>They also help fund public schools and local government services by paying sales and property taxes like any other resident. This added up to about $10.6 billion in state and local taxes in 2010, according to an analysis by the institute.\n\n", "Yes that’s the story I read too. One question that comes to mind is why didn’t he get a citizenship so many years ago when he married his wife who I apparently a citizen. I’m not saying the deportation is good in any way, just that some points that might allude to its legitimacy seem to be missing. ", "> man's living peacefully with a family in a country and its a 'serious crime'.\n\nWell he had to have a job at some point in the last 20 years to support a family. How did he obtain a Social Security Number to fill out on his w4 at this job so he could pay taxes?", "Tough medicine, but the rule of law is one of those things you don't miss until its gone.", "Minimum to apply is 10 years, it can take years to decades after applying before he's allowed to immigrate though. I sourced some related info [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qmmht/on_mlk_day_ice_deports_jorge_garcia_a_married/dsqlqsx/).", "he hasn’t been a citizen for 30 years though", "its kind of a subjective thing, bud.. but yeah, i definitely could.. my question would be: what is currently a source of pride in the US? its embarrasing. never been happier to have dual citizenship where things aren't so f'ed. notice you do a lot of popping off with nothing much of value to say.. which would be typical of the situation.", "They were always half assed attempts. ", "How can you guarantee he's helping others? You know absolutely nothing about him except he's illegal. That's a ridiculous argument. You're doing the exact same things as people who paint all illegals as drug dealers. You just they're all outstanding citizens.", "A former coworker of mine when I used to do labor was undocumented. He was convicted of domestic violence against his wife who was a US citizen. He got a deferred sentence due to no priors. He’s still here and never had his case forwarded to ICE by the county prosecutor because I live in a sanctuary city which does not cooperate with ICE. That does not sit right with me, at all, yet I don’t want to be a rat. So I do have a hard time believing people with no priors are being rounded up off the streets en masse and deported when criminals who have committed violent acts are not ", "> I also would like reform and regulation of Wall Street\n\nThat sounds like that awful Socialism all of the kids these days are talking about. \n\n/s", "If he's been working there had better be some tax documents.", "I'm pretty sure he is saying that your grandad was a US citizen before he left PR since it is part of the US so he didn't actually immigrate.", "It probably is expensive and time consuming. But if that's what you have to do then that's what you do. And if you can't, then breaking the law to do it anyway is not an acceptable alternative. ", "An illegal immigrant can apply for and use [an ITIN](https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/facts-about-individual-tax-identification-number-itin) instead of a SSN to pay taxes. ", "Another good read:\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/California/comments/6aef6o/california_is_the_chief_reason_america_is_the/dhe5jpl/", "Big difference between coming here illegally crossing the border and overstaying on a student visa. Student/work visa's can be amended( or changed or w/e the word is) usually with the help of an immigration lawyer. I say lawyer because you want someone experienced in that field to unfuck you're possible fuck up. ", "Yeah but how long will it take to get LPR status? ", "100000x the man Trump will ever be.\n\nedit: the russian bot force must be strong here.", "He should have abandoned or uprooted his family and went through the process. The process is perfect and he would have been back in the country in a couple of days. ", "That's not the way most would read that. Are you an American? When discussing politics, the term \"our administration\" would almost always refer to the White House and more loosely, the agencies with heads that are appointed by the president. ", "I doubt you were living in Disneyland for 30 years or had two kids with Minnie Mouse in this analogy. ", "Awesome, pat yourself on the back. You're so intelligent. ", "That was an excellent reply. Thank you. ", "Yes finally we can kick out 30 year long residents who have families and contribute to our society but whose parents brought them here when they were kids and they happen to be brown.\n\n\nFinally!!\n\n\nGod I hope the Bad Whites die in a fuckin firestorm", "30 years to fix it? Why should I feel bad? There are rules that we play by. It's fine by me if you wanna break those rules, but when reality comes tumbling down, don't expect me to be there for you.", "The reason this happened is two-fold: first, this guy's parents chose to break our laws, and second, border enforcement and deportation enforcement weren't strengthened as promised after Reagan's amnesty in 1986.", ">Criminal faces consequences", "I think the point here is they should probably use their resources to deport illegals who have committed real crimes (not logistical ones) or haven't established an entire life and family here. Plus, it's not his fault he came here when he was 10. \n\nBut your snarky comment and shitty outlook may keep you from seeing what's truly important.", "Unpopular opinion, but maybe people need to think about moments like this before they immigrate illegally. My heart goes out to him and his family, but this kind of shit wouldn't be so common if congress got its act together to BUILD THE WALL!", "You can’t just put a physical border along the Southern border.\n\nIf you want to put one up in 20 years, you can start trying to acquire the required land rights now.", "Ok? He broke the law for 30 years then finally got caught. I don’t understand why this is a big deal. “ he’s been here for 30 years though” yea illegally. If i rob a bank 30 years ago and don’t get caught until today, should I not go to jail? I still broke the law.", "Bootlicker.", "See, in civilized countries the law doesn't make you pay for your parent's crimes. How would you feel if you got jailed because your dad put a gun in your hand and made you shoot someone when you were 10? Maybe this is over the top but you get the point. It's not fair that this man has to suffer the consequences of choices he did not make.", "Nearly every time someone supports up a counter point made by a comment the person makes some snark about the “reddit hive mind” like you just did. Have you ever taken the time to consider that people that think this dude should stay aren’t just swarming like a mindless hive, but agree that this dude should stay out of compassion? \n\n", "He deserves a path to citizenship, but he shouldn't continue to be here illegally indefinitely while he sorts it out.", ">take your family back wherever you're from\n\nHe's from here though. He's been here since he was a little boy....", "So we should create a path for those who entered the country illegally? That would just encourage more people to come here illegally... You follow the law or you gotta go. There's a reason our country isn't a lawless shithole like Mexico, we enforce our laws. \n \nP.S. I look forward to everyone trying to say Mexico doesn't have a huge fucking crime problem.", "https://www.bankrate.com/financing/wealth/what-does-1-percent-pay-in-taxes/\n\nBasically the top 20% of earners pay 80% of the income tax. ", "He had 30 years to seek citizenship lol wtf", "Hopefully he can re-apply and be back with his family soon.", "Yah all he has to do is walk across the border illegally and he has 50% chance of becoming a Canadian.", "Ironic you say to abide by unethical structures placed by authority figures on MLK day. ", "This is wrong. You are ignoring INA 245i, Parole in Place (typically military), emergency Advance Parole, Matter of Quilantan, and Matter of Areguillen.\n\nThese are all ways for people to ultimately adjust status without evidence of a prior lawful entry. While the lack of that prior lawful entry does make it more difficult, it does not wholly preclude someone from adjusting status.", "Again, you can't ignore laws because of feelings, he broke the law", "> He made poor choices, he had fairly easy paths to residency via his marriage, and he chose to hide. Families are ripped apart every day when people make poor choices that lead to prison time. This is just another sad example\n\nThis is just so inhuman and disgusting I don't even know what to say. This is your brain on bootlicking.", "Martin Luther king Jr & Immigration and Customs Enforcement... or when you freeze MiLK and get ICE ", "Most likely there is more to the story than being told. There usually is. ", "Clearly you did not read the article. Tough to have a discussion when you are not going to read the very thing you asked for. At least skim the damn thing. Its exactly on point to what I originally said- It is a fallacy that Illegal immigrants weigh down our country and they don't pay taxes etc. \n\nTo your new point- The taxes are taken out by payroll..they are assigned a tax ID in that process. Obviously this does not include the many many illegal immigrants paid under the table. However MILLIONS work on the payroll. ", "Well thought out argument, bub.", "Are you stupid or not American or what? Nobody goes out of their way to pay taxes... Taxes are deducted from your paycheck by your employer. Almost all employed illegal immigrants are employed \"legitimately\" via a fake ssn or tax id number, and the government still receives the money.", "Does he have a spotless record? How did he pay taxes? Where did he get a SS#?", "There is some basic fucking common sense lacking in the thought process behind our immigration system. IE, if you've been here longer than you've been there, here's your citizenship. I cannot wait for these racist pricks to be removed from office. They have no interest in reforming immigration. It's just a game of 'keep out the brown people' for them.", "It doesn’t cost thousands of dollars and you certainly don’t need a lawyer. ", "He committed the crime of living a life minding his own business.", "Still not the child’s fault. Spout on though. You sound bigly.", "something that makes it so that he doesnt have to leave the country he’s grown up in and established a life in for a stay in Mexico several years to only get a shot at getting back in legally with zero guarentees", "This is just whataboutism", "> Serious question so please don't shoot me... if it was so easy to become a citizen, don't you think every undocumented migrant would jump at the chance, including this guy?\n\nIt's not easy to become a citizen if you entered illegally. It is easy to become a citizen if you're married to a U.S. citizen or permanent resident. If you're both, well... That's where the question arises. It seems the answer is \"it depends\" but regardless you need to leave the country to apply.\n", "What I’m saying is that people don’t get deported or even in trouble for not renewing their card. Google it if you don’t believe me. Your entire story sounds made up as it is ", "It's almost like breaking the law has consequences. ", "\"Do you remember when this left-of-center politician from Arkansas said this one thing?\"\n\nWTF I hate dems now.", "Let me see. He's asking what something has to do with MLK and you are shifting the subject and DEMANDING he adjusts his words on your trivial matter while completely ignoring the main subject (MLK)\n\nIf you don't have an argument it's sometimes better to just say nothing instead of nitpick trivial shit", "> Finally we are cracking down on the rules we have in place.\n\nOr you could fix the rules, and democrats and republicans want to do.", "Reddit on deportations: \"The law is the law.\"\n\nReddit on weed: \"This is unjust!\"\n\nReddit on piracy: \"This is a violation of my human rights!\"", "you can be black and from Norway. or white and from Africa. ", "That’s a really depressing thought...", "Then you should be upset with Washington. Occupy Wallstreet folks we’re occupying the wrong place.\n\nThey should have been in Washington. ", "My lawyer was referencing that the term illegal isn't use in the profession of law. Something is lawful or unlawful, but \"ill eagle\" is just a sick bird. I hope that clarifies things for what I was saying with that joke.", "One of the maaaany many many things the US has...upside down.\n\nGo figure.", "The American Dream doesn’t actually exist.\n\nIt’s a pernicious lie.", "You are absolutely pants-on-head fucking retarded if you think Canada is more welcoming than the US. It's much harder to immigrate to Canada.", "Sneaking into a theme park and then being kicked out is not even remotely similar to being taken as a kid to a country, developing a life there, and then being forced away from your wife, kids and livelihood into a country that is now foreign to you.", "> He's been here since he was 10 years old, it's not like he's a criminal. He didn't choose to come here illegally. In my opinion, it's cruel to send him back now.\n\nHe had 25 years to pay the Government or a Lawyer for the proper paperwork. If you are working in America and cannot afford $1250 after 25 years...what exactly are you doing here?", "He also did absolutely nothing to rectify the situation. Seems his kids and wife are fine. There should be avenues he could have taken but didnt. Maybe he needed to leave the country for a couple years before he could come back legally? I dont know. I do know he didnt do anything.", "The problem is that we have actual immigration processes in order for people to become US citizens. This can be controlled and managed.\n\nIf all it takes to get amnesty is to come to the US, get a job and pay taxes, then it would only be a matter of time before our economy was destroyed and the thing you say isn't happening (which actually is) would DEFINITELY be happening and in such a large scale it would cripple the job market.", "I mean, if you're here illegally you're here illegally. Rules and laws shouldn't take emotions and all that into account. It's kind of their point. ", "No I was just adding onto your comment. I don't know where I seemed like I was disagreeing with you? ", "You are making way too many assumptions without actually knowing his actual situation. For example, how do you truly know that he is not paying his fair share of taxes using an ITIN number? How do you know he is not an entrepreneur? How did you calculate that he was preventing the government from helping homeless veterans and addicts? I understand your intolerance towards immigrants; unfortunately, it is best not to make ridiculous statements without knowing the actual verifiable facts. ", "Yes, you can apply for a green card. Get a lawyer to help you though if at all possible. ", "They pay a lot more to accountants and lawyers to make their money qualify as anything but \"income\" as that term is defined by the tax code. ", "So do you feel his pardon was justified? ", "At what cost? A family torn apart because of a formality doesn't seem like a great rule.", "So why are we trying so hard to keep them out of the country? \n\nIf you're concerned about their well being. Shouldn't you be fighting AGAINST trump and his dumbassery surrounding this wall and the generally terrible immigration policy he is supporting?", "It may be easy if he has infrastructure in Mexico to support him doing so... having lived in the USA since he was 10, he might not have anywhere to stay or any money to make it happen. Everyone's situation is different.", "You're right my poor inbox is dead.\n\nThank you for replying though. I guess the extent of my knowledge was learning some country history, filling out insane paperwork, and pledging allegiance. I never really thought through the concept of having to explain to someone why you need to be here. That seems so subjective I don't even know where I would begin were it me.", "At least it's a good time of year to make the crossing back over", "You can’t simply just apply for a green card. You need to meet certain criteria. Was any of your grandmother’s children/parents a US citizen? If that’s the case, you can apply for a green card. \n\nWas she here with an H1B? Did her previous visa overlap while her green card was being processed? \n\nIts really not that simple. ", "Nope, literally just said the punishment fits the crime. Minor traffic violations have minor punishments. \n\nNow if you drive drunk and kill someone you can very easily lose you license for life.\n\nBut violation of Federal immigration law can get you deported. Also take note that being deported is not a life long ban. They usually ban you for five years. Not like deporting people has ever stopped then from coming back in. I imagine that until a wall goes up on our southern border this is just a drop in the bucket.", "The point is to stop serious debate about the topic using a shitty analogy so people attack the analogy and the debate is now about the analogy and you lose.", "Random anecdotes without any supporting context or background doth not a convincing argument make.\n", "He could have applied for an ITIN number which would allow him to work as a contractor for many employers, usually just requiring that he has an LLC. \n\nHe many also have a social himself, which don't shoot me if I'm wrong, but just because you have a valid social does not mean you are a US Citizen. My aunt has a social but is not a US citizen yet. How did this happen ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯\n\nEdit: Employers, not employees, clarity. ", "A couple days\n\nGuarantee be will be back illegally ", "Because to the people who chanted \"Make America Great Again\" it just means one fewer brown person. Which, to those chodes, is great.", "Likely the only solution would be to reset everything, I'm also not a lawyer but something like, if you can prove that you immigrated before say like 2000 and you have been good and contributed you gain a route to citizenship, but if you immigrated before then you must go. I don't know, it would be extremely hard to enforce but any law that tries to help this would be extrememly difficult.", "That’s not individual taxes is it? That’s corporate tax.", "ah makes sense. kill or be killed. ", "What a pointless statement. My comment was that the law should be changed to allow people like him to apply for citizenship under DACA.", "People were saying how if you come to the US illegally and stay for more than a year then you're banned re-entry for 10 years or something along those lines. He did that as an 11 year old. So I don't think he had much options since you wouldn't take the risk of getting booted out of your home after making a living only for the chance to one day come back years later. ", "So for 30 years he had a chance to become a citizen of the USA! ", "> and he didn't? I guess americans are racist.\n\nHe literally could not. His only option would have been to leave at 18 and wait 10 years to just apply. And its not his fault he even came here in the first place.", "I mean yeah that too. Did you think I would disagree with that or something?\n\nBut at least the soldier has a life insurance policy. These kids are going to get nothing except what he can send from back home, which I'm guessing isn't much or he wouldn't have stayed for 30 years. ", "What if he didn’t know he was illegal until later on? If his parent illegally moved to the US when he was 10, how would a 10 year old know that he was an illegal immigrant?", "Send the wife and kids too", "Not if you enter under refugee status, which many of those illegals do.", "I noticed you didn't include the world \"illegal\" to your \"immigrants\" ", "Non-American Redditors talk shit about America constantly and how it treats its citizens poorly. Yet billions of people would become Americans today if they could. These two things seem incongruous.", "Both are true.", "So many people criticizing US’s immigration policies but not voting for representatives that will actually fix it. ", "> this administration \n??? \n \nWant to take a guess how many people Obama and Clinton deported? \n \nThe Administration - Republican AND Democrat must enforce our laws or change them. \n\nPeople here illegally should be bounced. Funny how other countries can refuse citizenship, but Trump is the bad guy. (for the record, while conservative, I feel Trump is a douche. I am not a T_D'er).", "Except they’re also trying to reduce the number of legal immigrants as well.", "30 years and never made the effort to become a legal american?? ", "This is the real argument. Everyone syarts foaming at the mouth at the immigrant who came here to earn money for their family, but turns a blind eye to the shitty business who intentionally chose illegal labor over an American citizen. Nobody wants to hold business' accountable for their actions", "You mean those countries are shitholes? But for the past week Reddit was telling me they are wonderful countries and USA was the real shithole.", "I'm aware, but that has nothing to do with being deported. We can't deport on MLK day? ", "> while Melania Trump is allowed to stay.\n\nShe's been a legal US citizen for over 10 years. How do you deport a US citizen?", "This is very true. Good example is also the ACA that got rebranded as \"Obamacare\". Still to this day many people say they like the ACA but hate Obamacare. Control the words, control the narrative. It's everywhere.", "“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”", "I see an argument in favor of squating somewhere in there.", "#AND STAY GONE", ">There's no such thing as a good Republican.\n\nProbably should just space them all then huh?", "How many laws do we punish people for commiting when they were 10 years old, involuntarily, 30 years after the fact? ", "We’re finally safe from the hard working family men. Yay!!!!", "And this is why the immigration discussion needs to be far more than just \"toss em all out\" or \"let them all in.\" This is where someone needs to spend the fucking time and effort to work case by case to make decisions that actually make sense instead of just tossing out a good citizen based on a technicality. ", "Would you have left the county you grew up in?", "Babu!", "Literally takes 2 seconds to google lol.\n\nhttp://inthesetimes.com/article/20839/martin-luther-king-jr-day-socialism-capitalism\n\nThere's dozens of articles like these if you don't like this one lol \n", "Don’t know (and personally doubt) the stat is true, but it had nothing to do with corporate taxes", "It sucks that they broke up a family.\n\nOn the plus side, Mr. Garcia will find México much nicer than Detroit.", "So the Dems get 5,000,000 welfare scum to vote for them? Not a reason. ", "At what age did he become guilty of a crime from when he was age ten 10 to now? \n\nLooks like he did as any US citizen would do but because his parents didn't do things right, we want to send him out 20 years later? \n\nLooks like we're punishing him for his parent's crime.", "Oh, my bad. I thought you were wondering why the US immigration policies are unique in the world. I didn't realize you see immigrants as always being low class, which tells me you aren't actually interested in a real discussion. If you were you'd understand that, as bad as you might think the life of an immigrant is in the US, they are likely still better off here than wherever they left.\n\nI hope one day you have the pleasure of actually meeting an immigrant or two. Usually interacting with people from groups you hate helps with compassion. ", "I'm pretty into strong immigration reform and this photo and stories like it are heartbreaking.\n\nIt sucks. There's no clean solutions. I hate that good people will suffer because their parents chose to break the law.\n\nWe have to draw a line somewhere.\n\nI don't know how to do it without good people getting caught in the middle somewhere.\n\nI think somewhere we can start that would discourage this kind of thing from happening in the future is if we stopped providing free education to children of illegals. He never would have been brought here at 10 years old if he couldn't have gotten a free education. ", "Then he should have saved money to make it happen. ", "I think we should take a note from our upstairs neighbor Canada. They seem to have an immigration policy that works and people are okay with", "And no one is above the law", "I don't care.", "> we would double our population.\n\nHow would this even be a problem?", "I'm not really sure that all countries would handle this case like this.", "We have more square acreage than all of the United states of America. \n\nWe have a free health care system accessible to all citizens. \n\nIf you're going to throw out a comment complain that our own government is not doing a good job taking care of our own most vulnerable citizens you need to...\n\nA) Define what you mean by vulnerable residents.\nB) Explain why we wouldn't want a hard working, law abiding family of four to contribute to our country.\nC)Explain what that either of these things have to do with each other. ", "Or our government who banks on their taxes without having to use those dollars on public programs.", "Yeah actually my point was the fact it's his day has fuck all to do with anything. If this shit happened next week would we title it \"MLK day was last week, also in unrelated news the ICE has deported Jorge Garcia, ...\"", "I feel no shame. This guy had 30 years to become a citizen and he blew it ", "America, a country built by immigrants that deports immigrants.", "Didn't know that. If the police ever stop me for something I've done illegally, I'll just tell them my friend is suicidal. ", "Love me a good flow chart. Thank you for sharing!", "Well if he was knowingly not paying taxes and beating the system by being illegal I agree. If he was doing his duty and paying, after that amount of time, he should have a pass. Or a week vacation in his home then legalization. ", "The Presidents shithole comments do all but prove the point. Whether the immigration is legal or not, if it's black people him and the white people he represents hates them. But those Norwegians though....", "I agree that the Examiner has a clear right-wing bias, even by its founder's admission. I only object to it being compared to Breitbart, which can't even be called a news source. ", "Visa, residency. Catholic churches do them all the time. But since they live off the government, most wont option for them. Too good of a deal... then when they get deported they act like the victims. Everyone has a choice. He choose to stay illegal.", "The analogy about Disney Land is a \"very legitimate point\"? Did you write that with a straight face? ", "He was INELIGIBLE to apply during those 30 years dumbass", "I'm sure he has but if I was living in another country I would respect the laws of that land and living there in an illegal capacity is worth deportation. If people are so mad about it lobby for adjustments to the law but forming pity for someone that didn't live up to the existing laws doesn't change his situation or any of the other people that are here illegally. ", "It sounds like he had quite a long time to become a citizen", "Lol, what about them is harsh or severe? The one criticism you've put up is that it takes a long time which is because of a huge back log. That's not harsh or severe. Meanwhile you have states like CA paying tuition for illegals. ", "I think the bigger issue is that there isn’t a route for him to become a legal citizen/resident once he’s in the country. He would have had to leave (literally everyone and everything he knew) and then apply. \n\nSo it’s not law enforcement that’s the problem. It’s the law. ", "Laws are laws \n\nInb4 downvote", "Are you kidding me? Did you even read my comment? \n\nI simply added information to the comment I replied to and you're triggered? Get a life. \n\nEdit: and please. Show me where I said it was \"the child's fault\". ", "You don't need an ID to rent.\n\nHundreds of thousands of Americans do not have a bank account. \n\nMany Americans do not use ID to purchase or access liquor. Many Americans do not drink.\n\n>It's as easy as getting a social security card.\n\nIf only that were the case: \n\n>In his wallet, Anthony Settles carries an expired Texas identification card, his Social Security card and an old student ID from the University of Houston, where he studied math and physics decades ago. What he does not have is the one thing that he needs to vote this presidential election: a current Texas photo ID.\n>\n>For Settles to get one of those, his name has to match his birth certificate — and it doesn’t. In 1964, when he was 14, his mother married and changed his last name. After Texas passed a new voter-ID law, officials told Settles he had to show them his name-change certificate from 1964 to qualify for a new identification card to vote.\n>\n>So with the help of several lawyers, Settles tried to find it, searching records in courthouses in the D.C. area, where he grew up. But they could not find it. To obtain a new document changing his name to the one he has used for 51 years, Settles has to go to court, a process that would cost him more than $250 — more than he is willing to pay.\n\nhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html?utm_term=.ca5801243347", "Adjusted headline. On Monday, ICE agents did their job and deported a criminal living here illegally for over 30 years. Don’t you love spin? ", "kek", "He was 10. As in years old. 10 years old.\n\nAre you really that heartless? ", "He's not a child. ", "That doesn't look like Hurley....", "Rigthly so, sob stories don't make illegal legal. His family should be deported too, chain deportation instead of chain migration. The only people wanting illegals are the guys using them as cheap slave labor, Nancy Pelosi in her vineyard, Zuckerberg to program and the stupid daughter of Ozzy to clean her toilet. \nLegal immigration is good but illegal migration just leads to more crimes.", "This is one of those polarizing things that drives to the front page because both sides of this argument want it visible. One side is up-voting because they want everyone to feel bad for this guy. While the other side sees an individual that had ample time to become a citizen. ", "Oddly enough, George Soros’s Open Society Policy Center slashed spending on advocacy in 2016", "But there's a 10 year bar if you're here illegally for more than a year, so he would have had to run away from his parents before turning 11 in order to avoid the issue. \n\nI guess as a young adult he could have went and waited out 10 years in a foreign country, but that seems pretty ridiculous. ", "Why are you assuming people support mail order brides? Where did that come from? Your strawman is fucking on fire.", "They use a ITIN (Individual Tax Identification Number) issued by the IRS so they they can pay taxes regardless of having a SSN or immigration status.\n\nI’m not going to assume you are one of these people but this is why Trump’s right is so loud and obnoxious right now. Instead of actually seeking facts or looking for answers they blindly listen to their leaders or create assumptions to easily prove a point or push an agenda. A quick google search could have provided that information I provided instead of immediately accusing someone of fraud or stolen identity. \n\nThank you for reaching out and asking a question though instead of blindly believing this man is a thief and spreading that assumption. ", "Discretion is indeed a fundamental part of our legal system. Pretty much every person has done something technically illegal in public (jaywalking being one innocuous example), many multiple times, and faced no arrests or corrective action. ", "Exactly, he wouldn't be able to get a drivers licence, or a passport, or a legal job. He had 30 fricken years, and he probably thought about it every single day, but was like well maybe I'll do it tomorrow.", "I'm sorry Jorge.", "He didnt have a wife and kids at age 10. I mean its possible but very unlikely.", "If you believe him and his family went 30 years without paying taxes and no bank account, you or anyone else is an idiot. You can't hide from the IRS for 30 years.", "The top 20% of earners (100k or so and up) is 80% of income taxes. Below that it’s 14% and 2% \n\nI think the top earners are paying enough. ", "For someone who was brought here when he was 10? He didn't have a say, and there is no path to legal immigration if you entered illegally. What could he honestly do? I'm curious your solution here. He got married and had kids after the fact and 30 years later the solution is to kick him out? Why not find all of those \"rapists, murderers, and thieves\" Trump is touting about and deport them instead?", "In line with this, I don't know the details of his situation but it seems he at least was a productive member of society what is gained by deporting these types of individuals.", "Exactly. Same with me. Lived in Mexico until I was 4 years old. I’m 32 now. America is my home. No question. Mexico is also in my heart because although we live in America now, our culture did not go away. \n\nIt’s possible to love more than one country guys, but my heart is definitely with the US, and will forever be the place that gave my family everything. ", "He had 30 years to leave the country and cross the border legally. That's literally all it takes to become eligible to apply for a greencard if you've entered illegally", "Or maybe he should follow the currently existing system that allows you to become an American legally instead of jumping the border.", "Man I just straight up disagree. So he got here at 10 years old, should he have tried to like trainhop down to mexico or something? Realistically the only way he could leave is by the time he's 18 or so. At that point he's spent the majority of his formative years in America, most likely is a mainly English speaker, and has gone to only American schools. In what way is Mexico more his country at that point than the US? \n\nI just don't see how you can really act like he's a threat to our country, especially considering he's a family man. Like, I understand that he didn't follow the letter if the law, but can you at least recognize that the law is not always moral or right? As I said before, lots of awful racial laws used to be in place, but that doesn't mean they should be followed. It's not all black and white buddy", "Oh no I am sad so we should suspend rule of law!", "He has [this](https://i.imgur.com/azEndIw.jpg) many excuses.", "Avoiding taxes, dodging criminal charges, having no identity can be advantageous.", "You can obtain permanent residency, apply for asylum, and obtain a citizenship through marriage (questions his 2 year marriage). He could also apply for citizenship to the U.S from his home country. If he has been living in the U.S illegally for 30 years - he should have had no problem obtaining a residency at minimum .", "10 years olds can't be held to adult standards for crimes that hey did not willfully commit.", ">but it isn't tax evasion\n\nNo, just fraud and identity theft.", "What does this have to do w/MLK Day? ", "The cut-off is 15. I don’t know what this guys story is, but based on age, he does qualify for DACA.\n\nEdit; I did a bit more research. He was born around 1978. That means his parents brought him right after the Reagan amnesty of 1986. That might be why that age group is disqualified.", "Sad but illegal is illegal. Wrong that it was tolerated for this long. Wrong doing of the relatives who did that", "ITT: People being ok with families being separated.", "Really? Never happened under Obama?! The rate of deportations has actually been [less under Trump](http://www.newsweek.com/illegal-immigration-undocumented-migrants-obama-trump-585726)\n", "He was home. He lived here in the U.S. for 20 years. You think he had a back up home in Mexico?\n", "And we have states that celebrate \"[Confederates Day](https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/us/confederate-memorial-day-2017/index.html)\" for some reason... \n\n", ">Yet, if they were to be stuck in a war torn country today instead of the early 80s, there would be no option to flee and be accepted with open arms by this country\n\nFirst of all, the early 80s were an unusual time for refugee policy in the US. We haven't accepted nearly as many refugees as we did in those years in decades (long before Trump) and we weren't accepting nearly that many in the late 70s. Secondly, we're still accepting up to 50,000 refugees per year. For context, the average amount of refugees admitted during the Obama years was 75,000. Your post makes it seems like we've done a complete turnaround but that's not really the case.\n", "Just do what Obama did - focus enforcement on violent criminals. \n\nWhat exactly is the message that just got sent? \"hey, don't come to America for work and bring a 10 year old, because they could grow up, get married, start a family, and then 30 years later could get deported\"\n\nThat isn't going to deter anyone who is already willing to sneak into the country. ", "Kill politicians? That’s your answer. Perhaps that’s what’s wrong with America. ", "But he did have a say when he turned 18.\n\nI know. That's a hell of a call to make, \"herp illegals bought here as children should self deport as adults!\", in the same way that someone who finds buried treasure on their property should report it to the police and go through the proper channels to claim it, even if they don't and it's understandable that they wouldn't, but that's how the law works.\n\nThe problem is, the law has to create a disincentive to illegally immigrate. It has to, otherwise immigration laws are silly. ", "And the US will make their children and grandchildren pay for them. What an amazing country.", "Doesn't really work like that man", "That's exactly my point, immigration and deportation are complex issues and both parties have made some right and some wrong choices, it doesn't divide with party lines. You're the one blaming the Republicans unilaterally. ", "You're not on T_D anymore, buddy. Misogyny won't get you very far.", "That is racist because you're assuming that black and hispanic people are too stupid to figure out how to get an ID or know basic things like where the DMV is.\n\nHonestly, just [give this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs) a watch. You would be shocked at just how many \"poor, uneducated, don't know any better\" black people have a photo ID and know basic information on how to apply for one.\n\nHere is a spoiler: they aren't as dumb as you people try to falsify their image to be.", "Or you know, they could go with him.", "Nice anecdote, bro. This guy lived here for 30 years illegally. Look what happened to him.", "> an immoral law is no law to be followed. \n\nIf you think immigration laws are immoral, then do you propose open borders?", "That analogy doesn't really make sense, and it is a faulty. [Here](http://www.txstate.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Faulty-Analogy.html)is a good article on those. Living in a country and going to Disneyland are totally different. Countries and Theme parks are also totally different. There is no reason why the rules that apply to Disneyland should apply to the USA. I don't understand the point you are trying to make.", "It could be one of those cases she entered legally with the correct visa status. In US, non-immigrant visa works as an entrance key. You can stay in US or apply for change in status after the visa expires as long as you are maintaining the ‘status’ (e.g. people on student visa stay enrolled in school with proper credit earning). Expired visa only means if she leave US, she won’t be able to return to US without applying for a new visa. ", "Leaving the country isn't difficult. People do it all the time just for fun.", "I am not an American, no. I honestly thought they were talking about the administration of ICE", "Yup, but unfortunately people from The_Donald just wanted someone to be in a worse situation than they are in.", "He's still here illegally. ", "Two weeks tops. (Not legally, of course). ", "Ignorance is no excuse of the law", "And you point is???", "I guess they shouldn't be illegal then", "It's really easy to examine that situation from your perspective since you never had to worry about the logistics of leaving a country that you were brought into without considering the economic and logistical issues involved. Do you think a ten year old child can just save up money for a plane ticket and leave the country to go back to his home country? Where would he go? Does he have family there? Could he support himself?\n\nI'm not suggesting ignoring laws, but obviously we need to change them if situations like this are allowed to happen. It's a bad law if it can't make an allowance for this type of situation. \n\nYou make it sound so easy for him to just leave because he was brought here illegally but I don't hold that against you because you never had to deal with that type of situation in your life. \n\nWe need to reform our immigration laws to prevent this type of situation from ever happening again because it's immoral, unethical, uncivilized and wrong. We're better than this.\n", "> join us on the right side of history.\n\nI puked a bit. Mirin yourself much ?", "I'm not \"DEMANDING\" it. I'm saying it would HELP ANYONE if they minimised antagonising people if they had a question or a point to make. It's just constructive criticism. ", "Have you ever gone over the speed limit? We should get you the flip outta here too you criminal.", "Leave the country and get in line. Seriously. ", "That was the original argument: “nation of laws” implies that the justification for the punishment is because it is illegal. My response is that just because it is illegal, that doesn’t justify the punishment. Since many things are illegal and not deserving of such harsh punishment, simply being illegal is not justification. \n\nAnother comment mentioned that it’s justified as, to paraphrase, “violate immigration law, get deported.” That argument implies that because the domain of law is immigration, the punishment of deportation is justified because it’s the same domain of the law. But we don’t take speeders off the road permanently (like deportation) even though that’s in the same domain (traffic law, lose your car) because the severity is different. \n\nJust responding to the arguments made. ", "Our sins as a nation only grow. ", "So what's the end game? Close down Mexico and move everyone here?", "He probably used a fake social. Employers will often turn a blind eye when they are in desperate need of help. Many times we Mexicans will work twice as hard because we dont take the job for granted and the boss decides to let us work...sometimes for years.", "If they enter on a refugee status... they are not illegals.", "> Then again, there are people waiting in line to get in legally. What's fair to them?\n\nThat has always been a part that one side never seems to want to deal with. What about the guy who is in Mexico who is going through all the proper channels and jumping through the loops? \n\nI'm all for immigration, however, so long as we have any sort of social programs we must screen and vet anyone who comes into the country.", "Structures in your opinion are unethical. Abiding by a law that is in place is not unethical and the opposite could be argued as unethical. Funny how there are two sides to a conversation huh?", "How does breaking a law for decades make you immune to that law? ", "I updated my comment.", "Nope! There’s people from Ireland stranded in the US that can’t get out and are now trying to get out illegally. I think they’re dumb for letting that happen but it’s mad how it’s hard to get out as well", "I understand that. What I'm trying to point across is not to blame the person. Blame the immigration system. If the immigration system was much more fleshed out, we wouldn't have this problem in the first place. Mexican culture is one about family. That father will be sent back to his home country knowing that his children will live a better life than he ever could.\n", "The original story is a tragedy, but that doesn't give you license to make up facts based on anecdotes. Try Googling next time... https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2016-update/ . Top 1% paid nearly 40% federally in 2014. I don't have any more recent numbers, but /u/DrCommonMan is well within the neighborhood.", "And just not seeing your family for years, that’s got to be tough.", "No Human is illegal, dog", "How the hell did this guy stay here for 30 years illegally?", "You don't need a lawyer to apply for a green card.", "LOL yeah I guess the NSA could if they really wanted to. Doing it on a wide scale is logistically impossible though considering how many undocumented individuals there are in the states", "You fell out of a vagina in the wrong country buddy! Whew! I feel SOOOOOOO much safer now. As for me, I CHOSE to be born in America so get fucked! /s", ">Some illegal immigrants pay taxes using an ITIN\n\nDoes that mean the IRS knows who a lot of illegal immigrants are?\n\nEDIT: Formatting", "He doesn't need a green card or citizenship to live with his family in US. Having one after he's legally been in US is nice but its not necessary. Getting a family visa takes only a few weeks.", "Laws exist to serve people, not the other way around. This isn't serving anyone, and blindly following laws without consideration is dangerous. ", "Remittances from America to Mexican households keep about 20% of their entire country afloat.\n\nIt's one of their largest systems of income.\n\nSource: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/mexico-got-more-money-remittances-oil-revenues-2015-n510346", "You cannot obtain citizenship after being here illegally for 1 year. He came here when he was 10. So are you saying he should have walked back to Mexico by himself and become engaged at the age of 11?\n\n", "They could move to Mexico with Him, if they like. ", "That can be used to justify anything, and is intellectually valueless.", "Well the law needs to be changed. Laws are changed all the time. This one is a no brainer. ", "But he's brown though. /s", "I feel sad for people like you. I’d hate to live my life being such an ignorant hateful person. Worse still, you’re proud of it. You think you’ve made a good point and you don’t understand why you’re a piece of shit human being. ", "Well once you make them legal you have to actually treat them like humans which is expensive and ends up with them being a net drain on the economy.", "I’m laughing so hard at the above comment. Did they really assume that all white Americans are literal descendants of Christopher Columbus or the first fucking pilgrims, orrr...", "Ad hominem: (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.\n\nI am clearly attacking the positions. Agree or disagree, but this is not an ad hominem attack. I would be happy to cite my sources if you would like to make this a formal debate.", "What does your claim of having immigrant roots bring to the discussion? It is deceptive.", "Uhhh you do know Jim Crow laws were repealed in 1964 right?\n\nRemember how I said \"the law doesn't enforce racism\" instead of \"the law has never enforced racism\"?", "I have dual citizenship. So, where’s my home? ", "I think the concern is that those who abuse immigration (there are a lot of them, if you haven't heard) then think they just have to slip in and get a house and we will let them stay. It circumvents the whole process.\n\nHis strongest point isnt that he was already here, its the age he was brought over. What they need is a system in that very specific case, but then we have to have people provide some kind of proof that they were here at that age, right? We'd have to question it. Anybody could say they've been here in the states since they were a kid.", "He was referring to the guy who was raised in America, is participating in the US economy, and raising American kids with an American wife.\n\nHe's American in every way, except on paper. How is deporting him doing any good?", "19 months to 33 years depending on how long the waiting list for his specific country is. \n\nMexico is around 20 years. Be wary of people claiming they did it in a few years, they were probably coming from a small country. ", "Doesn't Deroit need all the workers it can get? ", "That's where I got confused I think. I didn't understand the whole DACA setup if it doesn't eventually get you actual citizenship. Stuck in a limbo that someone can just take away from you at a later date is heartbreaking.", "Fake SSN doesn't necessitate identify theft", "He's being punished cause he's illegal, not cause of his father.\n\nGood try though. ", "imagine someone living in a country where English is not the first language, or casually making a typing error. ", "I love how single-minded the IRS is. \n\nThey could not care less who you are or what you've done. They don't judge you in any way ... you just need to pay your taxes.\n\nIt reminds me of the [scene from Breaking Bad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFKDmCbfMS4) where Saul explains money laundering.", "Oh lol my bad I totally read that wrong sorry", "Rioting because the law is being enforced? Oh right, the Canadian Prime Minister has broken federal law 4 times (I think), so I guess that sets the example for you, a saddened Canadian. \n\nJust because some things don't feel good doesn't mean they aren't law and shouldn't be enforced. ", "It doesn't matter that \"minority\" means more than just \"non-white\"?", "He was not here legally and thus shouldn’t be here at all, the law is the law no matter how harsh it may be ", "So for the past 30 years he couldn't apply for citizenship?", "Good another criminal gone", ">The real dicks are the parents for putting him in that position, honestly.\n\nI totally agree. That’s why its not fair for the child to be punished. He probably didn’t even know he was illegal or what that meant until late adolescence", "What did he steal again? Was it your job, or your spine? Gonna have to run it back to me why living in the states without a citizenship suddenly means you have to be deported before reapplying, especially if you’re a working class man with American born children. Is that not stupid in your mind? How does that make any fucking sense if the taxes are paid and they’re playing the same game any citizen is?\n\nGet that chip off your shoulder. No one was from the U.S. 242 years ago.", "> How exactly does this make America great? Criminals on Wall Street get a pass\n\nOh for fucks sake, I'm with you but what is this bullshit? You don't think every prosecutor with political ambitions ever wanted to convict Wall Street? They didn't break laws, they were just stupid when it came to understanding how much risk they had on", "He could've put in the effort to secretly go back to Mexico then immigrate here legally.", "Because if Donald Duck wasn't president there's no way you'd be campaigning this hard about it.", "How is this a priority for anyone other than racists? ", "You care obviously\n", "That would be true if he didn't have to wait 10 years now to even apply. If you overstay more than a year, you get an automatic zero tolerance 10 year ban on visiting and immigrating.\n\n10 years without his kids (who are American, FYI) is a pretty big deal in my book.", "Sure and democrats now label any criticism of people who are brown, racism regardless of if it makes sense. You can't even criticize a certain religions or cultures without being called racist now. Their (somewhat) new trick is to call anything that isn't actually racist \"dog-whistle racism\" conveniently giving them the ability to label nearly anything racist if they don't agree with it.", "Where do you think laws come from? You think they magically came into existence before any of us decided on them?\n\nNo, every single law exists because the people making them had the FEELINGS that they should be the laws.", "You had 30 years to apply for citizenship. ", "Yeah. He should have left. I mean, I get that he only ever knew life in the US and this was his home and he had become a member of society. But the dude was a dumbass for not sacrificing all that for the chance to get a citizenship. I mean, it couldn't be hard to totally uproot your life and just start over. Idiot ^/s", "So you are pro-poll tax.\n\nNow what if this person works two jobs in order to raise their kids and doesn't have the time to get to the DMV during open hours or risk eviction, homelessness and hunger for their kids?\n\nYou would stop this person from having a say in our democracy on account of this?", "Should’ve came in legally. \nEDIT: Parents should’ve come in legally.", "Nope!", "His parents really screwed him over then by not following the proper channels to legally migrate here. The anger at our laws is misplaced you should be angry with his parents for setting him up like this ", "[cold blooded ](https://i.imgur.com/MgtuAZQ.gif) ", "I think op insinuated it is just Trump doing this given the Maga comment. Both parties are to blame here for immigration issues, I don't deny that.", "Back to his country of citizenship. It's almost like breaking the law has consequences ", "And now, he is an ADULT, as he has been for quite a while, yet he didn't do the responsible thing and go through the proper channels to obey the law. ", "Then change it. So much of these articles are people mad at the rules but do nothing to change it. ", "Name one thing that he has done that has made our country worse", ">But let’s all pretend that Americans international image is permanently tarnished because there’s a Republican President.\n\nAmericans have had a worse international image than Canadians for decades. It has nothing to do with their current president and everything to do with the cultural differences between Canada and the US. \n\nI'm not saying that Canadians are better than Americans, but they are seen as being more respectful and less arrogant than Americans internationally.\n\nThe fact that Americans actually try to pretend to be Canadians (And this practice has existed for at least 10 years) is a pretty good sign that Americans aren't viewed as well as Americans.", "illegal immigrant dog", "So our options are either sterilization or open borders. Ok. ", "Maybe if the fire fighter was fighting the house fire rather than putting a kitten into a tree? It's a matter of priorities, and Democrats could have passed immigration reform under Obama if they weren't busy trying to fuck up healthcare. ", "He was ten years old when he was brought here by his parents. How is he a criminal?", "And it's nearly fucking impossible to actually get accepted and allowed to enter and work towards full citizenship. Not to mention very expense (thousands of dollars). As much as Trump talks about a meritorious style of accepting immigrants, we certainly have a high level of weeding out of poor folks through our legal channels.", "I’ve had trump supporters smugly tell me that the “spotless record” is a lie— that he is a criminal just by being here. That’s what it reduces to, in my eyes— people who are lucky enough to have been born here, cheering the deportation of someone who has built his life here. Because you gotta look down on somebody, right?\n\nSo to answer your question, it’s The cheers of redhats. That’s what this is all for. ", "Hah, while I see what you're saying, I'm sure you get the point. Let's not argue semantics here.", "As someone that has been through other countries immigrations I am not sure why people are hating on the US for deporting people that are here illegally. Sure he was here for a long time, but he was still breaking the law by being here. I had to jump through a TON of hoops to immigrate to Canada. In the US you pretty much pay your fee, sign the paperwork and you can stay (maybe not as a citizen at first, but you can work toward that)", "Amazing how people from other parts of the world comply ", "My question is how did he manage to gey married or apply for birth certificates without any legal documatention, not only that but live in the US and work, own a car or house.. how does someone make it that long with legal documents surely someone somewhere knew he shouldnt of been in the US.", "Fuck the law. :) We both know that one party and one president is the reason that this happens today. It have nothing to do with anything written in stone.", "'There is nothing more dangerous than to build a society with a large segment of people in that society who feel that they have no stake in it; who feel that they have nothing to lose. People who have stake in their society, protect their society, but when they don't have it, unconsciously want to destroy it' -MLK\n\nHe also talked about the dangers of people who don't belong. Believing in general goodness doesn't make you a paragon for peace. Example, I firmly hold the belief that diplomacy is the key to long lasting peace and prosperity. However if some entity isn't open to diplomacy then they should be brought to heel with hellfire. Do either of those viewpoints make me a pacifist or war monger? No they don't. Same with MLK; belief in general goodness doesn't mean he disregarded the value in judgment and less than peaceful solutions. ", "Kafka would be proud.", "Finally, someone asking the real questions", "I don’t get why he didn’t just apply for documentation. I have friends who’ve came illegally as teens, realized their mistake, went back home and filed for papers, and came as proper citizens. ", "What's more likely is that he had ITIN number to pay his taxes", "Is he an American citizen? Nope. So he's not as American as me or you. ", "But her emails?", "Standing on a grave for agenda", "Illegally. And he knows that. He could have gone back home any time in the last 22 years. If your parents dropped you off in a foreign country would you just try and lay low for 30 years? Or would you try and correct their mistake at some point?", "So based on you working in an immigration law office, I hope you don't mind me asking the following:\n\nI'm 30 years old, have European citizenship, Masters Degree from a top Business School, previously worked in Marketing, and 6 figures saved up at the bank. I would love to just live in California for a couple of years, don't necessarily need to become a citizen. I have no family over there. What options for legally staying there for that period of time do I have?\n\nMy (extensive) research on this topic, leads me to depressing conclusions. With no family over there, or a job offer, there seems to be pretty much no other way of making that happen? I'm only able to travel as a tourist, and stay the very limited time allotted on those visas?", "Not sure where you're getting that last bit from? The headline is calling out what day it is, not saying anything about being allowed or not allowed to deport on that day?\n\nIt does have something to do with this guy being deported, it's the day of", "Although true, that's just because they're greedy and don't give proper pay to their employees... ", "Look I don’t know what Commie shithole you’re from but this is America. We trust 10 year olds to be in complete control of their lives. We don’t make excuses for anyone’s behavior, except for our god/president. ", "What exactly is the process for someone in his situation?", "Don't really understand how that's injustice.", "I'm proud to say that America has a long history of patriots that speak to this dilemma of unjust laws: \n\n\"Unjust laws exist; shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavor to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once? Men generally, under such a government as this, think that they ought to wait until they have persuaded the majority to alter them. They think that, if they should resist, the remedy would be worse than the evil. But it is the fault of the government itself that the remedy is worse than the evil. It makes it worse. Why is it not more apt to anticipate and provide for reform? Why does it not cherish its wise minority? Why does it cry and resist before it is hurt? Why does it not encourage its citizens to be on the alert to point out its faults, and do better than it would have them?\" - Henry David Thoreau\n\nThoreau gets out there sometimes, but I'm with him on his one. If government will not make just and humane law, then it is the citizens duty to not enforce an unjust law. That's how I interpret that. ", "I've trying to stay away from American politics, I hadn't noticed that much", "Best bot burn I've ever seen.", "Then he should blame his parents for putting him in this position. Just because the intentions were right, doesn’t make their methods of achieving it okay. It’s called cheating. Cheating = taking shortcuts for one’s personal gain. Let’s not ruin this beautiful country by opening the floodgates and letting in too many new people too quickly. Immigration law is for the benefit of the people already living whether you like to think it is or not. ", "> Yeah, and it's you law and order types that want nothing to do with changing unjust laws. A law that results in that man's family being torn apart is unjust. Democrats have been trying for years to get this situation fixed through legislation\n\nWhen Obama was elected in 2008 the Democrats controlled all branches of government (just like Repubs do now). So what did the Democrats do to fix this while they were in charge? \n", "Hard working family man of Mexican descent gets royally fucked by his own parents who just had to jump the fence in the 80's.\n\nSad story but if he was a white guy being sent to the netherlands this wouldn't even make the news.\n\nAlso love how you randomly threw MLK into this shit just for extra sympathy points. \n\nI'm canadian so I don't frankly give a shit.", "Look it up, the world's knowledge is at your finger tips and you look like an idiot.", "You have no logic here. You’re speaking strictly through emotion by making these off comparisons.", "Wow great argument your list is stupid and insert strawman here. I didn't say the US was responsible for everything I said they have their hand in a lot of it. You know you can read about it. But I doubt you will because you don't want to know how the US has meddled in South America or Mexico or the Middle East because you want to keep your false idea of it being the ultimate moral God sent country. My list is one of people who at one point in our history were breaking the law despite doing nothing morally wrong. Which is exactly what has happened here. But go back to chanting USA USA USA while the USA continues to fuck up other countries and then keep calling the innocent victims of it the real bad guys. You're already going down the same way everyone else in my list has and I'm sure they were making the same arguments as you.\n\nHaha there's even an example of it on the front of TIL right now how about you go read about what our wonderful government had it's hand in.", "30", "Yeah I'm sure he hates his parents for giving him a life in America. \n\nCan we please realize that illegal immigrants are fucking human and not spout such stupidity. While we can accept what his parents did ended up screwing him over, it doesn't make them bad people or human traffickers Jesus fucking Christ. ", "But its not possible a majority of the times. With the resources you have over there, it's rolling a boulder up a hill. ", "It's a governmental issue because it's not reasonable for a ten year old to understand complex immigration law, nor is it reasonable to eject a hard working, tax paying, law abiding member of society for no other reason than because his parents brought him here when he was a child.\n\nLaws need to be both reasonable and just. This is neither.", "You don't go through any process to become a citizen for 30 years, he made his choice.", "a decent country would have provided a pathway to citizenship for him a long time ago.", "Trumps supporters are the kids and grand kids of the people who killed king. Not making anything up. ", "You've never committed a crime? Lmao get real.", "Let's see, one is a kid getting kicked out and having a bad day after his parents broke a rule.\n\nThe other is a husband and father who contributes to society and hasn't broken any other laws being kicked out for 10 years and no longer contributing to society and probably forcing those kids and his wife into poverty (since it is hard to support a family in the US while working in Mexico) that will bring additional burden on society to take care of them.", "Not often do people do this. Thank you sir. ", "Did you just compare entry in the US with entry into fucking Disneyland? Holy shit...\n\nBut anyways, I think a better comparison would be something simpler, like hey my parents took me to a country without me having any say where I built an entire life, paid taxes, raised a family, and am now being sent back to a country I know nothing about. Oh that's not a comparison? Maybe it's because it doesn't freaking need one. \n\nEdit: grammar", "Misogyny? After the person said “God I hate you” and other things...", "MLK: \"We should judge others not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.\"\n\nSo on this day, it's real suspicious of his deportation...\n\n• ...30 years after residing in the U.S.\n\n• ...when this person committed no felonies.\n\n• ...after Trump called people like him and his country \"shitholes.\" (basically, any Black and Brown)\n\n• ...after Trump bailed out on DACA negotiations which affect young, Latino immigrants the most.", "They do if they had a conditional status. If you don't renew on time you lose your permanent resident status forever. It costs $500.", "You speak as if moving out of the country you have lived your entire life in with your entire family who may not even speak a language other than English and starting a new life, with new jobs is easy.", "He was 9. ", "Everyone pays tax. Don’t believe the lies. ", "Not necessarily using a fake or stolen SSN, some people file taxes using an ITIN , from the IRS site:\n\nITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have a U.S. filing or reporting requirement under the Internal Revenue Code.\n\nIndividuals must have a filing requirement and file a valid federal income tax return to receive an ITIN, unless they meet an exception.\n\nWhat is an ITIN used for?\nITINs are for federal tax reporting only, and are not intended to serve any other purpose. IRS issues ITINs to help individuals comply with the U.S. tax laws, and to provide a means to efficiently process and account for tax returns and payments for those not eligible for Social Security Numbers (SSNs). \n\nAn ITIN does not:\n • Authorize work in the U.S.\n • Provide eligibility for Social Security benefits\n • Qualify a dependent for Earned Income Tax Credit Purposes\n\n\nWho needs an ITIN?\nIRS issues ITINs to foreign nationals and others who have federal tax reporting or filing requirements and do not qualify for SSNs. A non-resident alien individual not eligible for a SSN who is required to file a U.S. tax return only to claim a refund of tax under the provisions of a U.S. tax treaty needs an ITIN.\n\nOther examples of individuals who need ITINs include:\n • A nonresident alien required to file a U.S. tax return \n • A U.S. resident alien (based on days present in the United States) filing a U.S. tax return \n • A dependent or spouse of a U.S. citizen/resident alien\n • A dependent or spouse of a nonresident alien visa holder", "I think the better option is to increase our border strength and make it easier to become a citizen of the USA so they can receive the benefits they need and we dont need to worry about funding crime cartels that ship people over illegally. ", "He can get his citizenship. He simply has to re-enter legally, then he becomes eligible ", "It isn't now, but it was when he was 2 or 3.\n", "Businesses typically don’t pay tax on/for undocumented workers unless they are on assumed identities and you can bet an undocumented immigrant isn’t going to alert the IRS to their existence ", "It would have to be well thought out, since the \"not committing any crime\" requirement could have a chilling effect on the willingness to cooperate with law enforcement (to avoid potential trouble for themselves). ", "cya", "So reward people who unlawfully came here over the many thousands of properly vetted immigrants who have worked hard to qualify for citizenship? This guy should be put in a queue, with his experience being put into consideration against other people. ", "yes they did, trump just removed the solution so he can beg for a wall.", "At 18 he was an adult, fully capable of making his own choices, he spoke Spanish, and lived the majority of his life in a country that was not the United States. Why is the US the only country where it is seen as acceptable to openly flaunt immigration laws? I can't bring my kids to Canada and demand they get citizenship. ", "The debate isn’t about the adults that came here willingly, but children carried over by their parents. Leaving early enough they no nothing of their homeland. Say they are illegal is just callous. You want to be a shit, fine. But don’t drag the rest of humanity down with you. \n\nYes this debate is personal for me. You are talking about my friends who personally did nothing to be branded a criminal.", "> If I had to seek a better life somewhere and my only option was to ~~enter~~ get some cash illegally, I would do so without hesitation.\n\nsame same, but different, but still same\n\n", "That seems shortsighted.", "Immigration policy has nothing to do with race, dumbass. White, black, and Hispanic Mexicans would all have the exact same standing. And every country on earth enforces its borders.", "He's speculating it's felony fraud, based on the previous poster's speculation that he was using a fake SSN. The inception of speculation. ", "It is fraud and it most likely is identity theft\n\nJust stop.", "Do you think it's that easy? It isn't. Chances are he didn't marry a legal US citizen spouse for a family based petition, he's not a victim of a crime for a U-Visa, his children are too young to file a petition on his behalf because they are probably 15 or 18, and he might have a permanent bar on his file due to a reentry or some other permanent bar that makes his illegible. Whatever the case, discard your assumption that the pathways available for US citizenship or residency are plenty, they aren't. ", "But if you are being paid under the table how does the IRS even know how much you should be paying? AFAIK its also illegal to hire an undocumented person so don't they basically have to be paid under the table or commit identity fraud? This is all confusing. No snark I'm actually confused by all the conflicting info that gets tossed around. Taxes are confusing enough as a regular citizen.", "I was only commenting on how using an aggressive, but stupid tactic in forming an argument is annoying.", "The comment clearly referenced Trump's campaign slogan \"Make America Great Again\".", "So much spiteful satisfaction in these comments.", "> Reddit is racist,\n\nThat sort of generalization is just as bad as the thing you are complaining about. Reddit has racist members, sure. And non-racist members. \n", "His views coincided very much with today's right wing views. It's not hard to read a little...", "I'm talking about cultural issues that have existed for decades, my friend. Perhaps your memory is shorter than mine. ", "What stupid rules? Like having a border? ", "And people jaywalking that are caught get in trouble as well. ", "> Richest 1% pay 40% of all federal income taxes\n\nThey have over half of all the countries wealth. They should be taxed 50% then. So yeah they are under taxed. ", "Because nobody should ever enforce the law ever.", "He was brought here as a child though, which put him in a situation where he would have to make an unfair sacrifice to go back once he was an adult. Asking him on his 18th birthday to give up everything and leave the country (possibly alone) where he has been since he was brought over as a child is wrong. ", "Segregation and slavery were legal once.", "How is it irrelevant? Fixing exactly* this has been explicitly prevented by the GOP.", "While I am 100% against illegal immigrants, many (not all) do pay taxes.", "I'm so disgusted that I have to breath to same air as the people who are defending this action. ", "Been in a country for 30 years and never applied for citizenship. That's illegal. ", "Not sure how accurate it is coming from [Detroit Free Press](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2018/01/15/jorge-garcia-daca-deported-mexico-immigration/1033296001/) but\n\n>Garcia may be barred from entering the U.S. for at least 10 years, said Cindy Garcia. \n\nSo... he could be barred, but I don't actually know. ", "Sounds like he's had more than enough time to become a citizen the legal way and pay his taxes just like the rest of us. \n\nAlso, what the fuck does MLK have to do with anything in this case. He's ILLEGAL!!!! ;", "That comment sparked a question regarding immigrants being deported back to there native country in this case I believe Mexico?\n\nDo these countries have anything set up to help them or they don't really care?", "I found the guy who believes all of those refugees are teenagers!", "Why didn't he apply for citizenship??", "You just go back to Mexico and renew your passport. Then apply for the visa. It might take a year or so but it’s worth it. You can’t be here illegally. Deportations should be punished by an indefinite ban. ", "\"Anti-life\" just doesn't have the same ring to it ", "\\>account made today\n\n\\>only posted to be a cunt about MLK\n\n\\>complains about liberal circlejerk \n\n\nHello Stormfront, is this a rough day for you guys?", "I pointed out a fact, is that seriously considering campaigning hard? Because I would have pointed out a fact no matter who was president.", "You can tell him he's a dumbass for spending $7000 and you're a dumbass because you're friends with that guy.", "Good example of abiding by the laws and regulations of a foreign sovereign nation. When a United States citizen travels anywhere else in the world they are expected to conduct themselves in the same manner. ", "> has been there for 30 years\n\nYou don't think he learned he was illegally in the country over the past 30 years? Do you and others have any common sense? Why should he get a free pass?", "If only we maybe had a fence.. or... barrier.. gosh I don't know, maybe a WALL to stop illegal immigrants from getting into our country.\n\nThen his parents would have never been able to enter our country with a 10 year old boy (illegally), and this would have never happened... \n\nJust a thought..", "...which makes you a heartless person bereft of compassion. People who were brought here as kids 30 years ago should be able to apply for citizenship, period, end of discussion.", "You mean, aside from being in a country illegally?", "Yeah, it doesn't really make any sense. ", "It's actually barely over 2%. \n\nWhat does that have to do with anything? \n\nThat does literally dick to prove that totally bogus claim you made.", "I'm a democrat, and guess what? Islam sucks and is a cancer to this world. All religion is.\n\nDon't let loud minorities dictate what you think about people. Those people are crafting your narrative.", "May not have been the card itself. What I know is that the lawyer lied and they were stuck in Canada, not allowed to return.", "I used to read erowid like I was studying for a PhD in pharmacology.", "couldn't", "So he came to the country illegally, had 30 years to get his shit together, but didn't. \n\nWhose fault is that?\n\nI feel bad for the guy, but actions have consequences, and the law is the law.", "Plus this guy never had a chance, he got here at ten years old for crying out loud", "Sorry, I'd like to amend my statement then: Its fucked you think that's just fine and dandy that they do that. And that it shouldn't be punished, or negligently so. In regards to drunk driving.\n\nI've see the stat on the illegal immigrants that pay taxes. Some of them do, yes. Maybe even most or a lot of them. But the problem is, we don't know. We don't know where the money is coming from, we don't know who is giving too much or too little, we don't know. To say that everyone who lives in the US pays taxes is a unprovable silly statement. Some of them pay, or likely pay. But all we know if there is a lot of anonymous money coming in, not who or where its from.", "Nope not at all, he had plenty of time", "I pay plenty of income taxes. He paid income taxes and sales taxes too. You have to in order to make income. You have no idea how the government or taxes work, so I suggest you not have such strong opinions about something you know nothing about.", ">In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.", "It was never a shining star. It used to be illegal for Chinese people to even enter the country at the turn of the 20th century. We’ve only increased our tolerance since then. Sure we have problems but people keep thinking America has turned downhill, definitely not. We are far more progressive than we were 100 years ago. ", "These “criminals” are only criminals because we call them criminals. They haven’t really done anything to hurt anyone. Yet their cruel and unusual punishment hurts them and many others. Just because we call something a crime doesn’t mean that that is just. We should be making it easier for people to become citizens, that way people have no reason to be undocumented citizens.", "Quiet geek! MAGA!!!!! 👌", ">\tAnd I think you underestimate how many ppl in the world would give everything they have for a chance to become American and have the opportunities that vome with it.\n\nNo, I don’t underestimate the desire. I’m sure it is in the billions. I think you underestimate the opportunity. It would be impossible for a billion people to just show up on our doorstep, and even if they did, all administrations would turn them away, including Obama. We have 350 or so million people in the US. No president, no Congress, no sane person thinks the US should more than double in size. \n\n>\tyou fly in under a normal tourist visa then just never leave. \n\nThose are not just handed out like candy. You have to apply for one and no government is going to hand out a hundred million in a short amount of time. For instance, 2016 saw a total of [76 million international visitors](https://travel.trade.gov/view/m-2016-I-001/documents/ocm-i.xls).\n\n>\tIf it was as easy as just showing up and deciding to stay, you better believe all flights would be booked up for years.\n\nYou realize that this article is about someone who was brought here at a young age (against their will), grew up here, and remained here and became a functioning member of society, right? We aren’t talking about people just showing up and expecting citizenry.", "No but we should abide to our own rules we've have set in place for the history of the country", "IIRC overstaying a legal visa is a different set of rules than entering illegally.", "Pretty much every country has borders and laws in regards to immigration, so this isn't unjust. ", "So everyone should be taking home the same amount, no matter what?", "Arrests for illegal border crossings in 2017 is a representation of the CURRENT immigration response. It's supporting the idea that in 30 years, we don't have another situation like we had today because the guy never made it into the country in the first place.", "It doesn't?", "The only way he could become a legal resident is by leaving this country. How is a kid going to do that without the economic means to do so? Who is he going to live with when he moves back to his home country? ", "To a country where they wouldn’t be citizens, and have no assistance? \n\n...this is such a gong show of a situation the US puts him in.", "Worker, family man, tax payer. No criminal record. ", "Fuck the current administration ", "Oh, I thought they referred to the ICE administration", "I will celebrate when the white illegal alien and terrorist that attempted to assassinate Trump at a rally is deported back to his shithole after serving his jail sentence.", "So half the country is garbage? If you don't like half the population then the problem is with you not Trump supporters. ", "Only someone who had an understanding of MLK about an inch deep would say otherwise. ", "> My exhusband is in the exact same situation\n\nyou don't have to sound that* happy", "They had 8 years in the Senate and 4 in the house at the same time. If you don't get anything done in that time on an \"important\" issue like this one, then it isn't important to you.", ">If people are so mad about it lobby for adjustments to the law\n\nLmao, because that has been so very effective in so many cases right? Exceptions should be possible in cases like this, it's absolutely ridiculous.", "Couldn't he had applied for the pardon during the Clinton administration?", "Why? He pays taxes. He has kids and a wife. He’s been here for 30 years without becoming a burden on society. Why can’t the law offer some leeway for a man like this? This is exactly the kind of person America wants; someone that comes from immigrants and works to be successful. \n\nIf it costs us nothing to keep him here while we works it out, why send him away for years? It seems pretty obvious to me that the more efficient (and less traumatic) route would be to get him a good way to citizenship while he’s here. He’s already an American; getting the piece of paper that proves it is just window dressing at this point.", "It's hardly cruel. You live by societies rules and pay for the rules you break. ", "Every illegal immigrant I have known paid taxes.", "https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/working-paper/2015/the-impact-of-immigration-on-occupational-wages-evidence-from-britain\n\nThe bank of england says that \n\n>We find that the immigrant to native ratio has a small negative impact on average British wages. This finding is important for monetary policy makers, who are interested in the impact that supply shocks, such as immigration, have on average wages and overall inflation. Our results also reveal that the biggest impact of immigration on wages is within the semi/unskilled services occupational group. We also investigate if there is any differential impact between immigration from the EU and non-EU, and find that there is no additional impact on aggregate UK wages as a result of migrants arriving specifically from EU countries. These findings accord well with intuition and anecdotal evidence, but have not been recorded previously in the empirical literature.\n\nAKA:\n\nImmigration does depress wages, even legal immigration, with the highest effect on unskilled labor. This study does not measure illegal immigration. But you can apply the same thing for illegal immigration by virtue of the fact that they will usually get a job.", "Don't know if I could leave a country I was raised in for one I barely know with the tiny chance of being able to get a work visa and return. More likely he would have left and never been able to come back. \n\nObviously his deportation doesn't make him any less American to me. Hence me arguing its injustice. If this doesn't appeal to you on a human level, then I don't think there's anything else I can say. Have a nice day.", "People are stuck up scumbags with their heads up their asses. It's pretty head to see someone else's perspective when all you see is shit. ", "So you're saying that these immigration laws were put in place for a reason?", "Isn’t it possible if you apply for an unlawful presence waiver first? ", "I mean, his family broke the law and put him in a tough situation. Growing up illegally in the US is probably safer/better than legally in Mexico though, so it's a tough decision all around. \n\nAlso the point of being a nation of laws is that you can change dumb laws when they aren't working, and a system that deports a law-abiding man with a job and a family who was brought here without his consent is the definition of a dumb law. ", "There's literally nothing inhuman about asking people to be responsible for their own decisions. If Jorge had gotten married, gone back to Mexico, and applied for immediate residency due to marriage, he would have been a legal resident within 6 months. Now, he's banned from entry for 10 years. He made his choice, it was a gamble, and he lost that gamble. \n\nI'm curious, do you also think the Democratic president and Democratic congress who passed the legislation that is responsible for Jorge's deportation are as equally inhuman as holding him responsible for his actions?", "Had a buddy who was brought here when he was 2 years old. Spoke English and Spanish, high school educated, his family ran a local restaurant that employed a good 50+ people. It still took him until he was 25 to get his citizenship. Our immigration system sucks and needs a serious overhaul. Our economy is dead the moment our workforce stops growing.", "And we don't know his story and situation. It is a long an expensive process with no guarantees of success.", "That's what is fucked up. Utopia? The American dream was never Utopia. The American dream was self-determination and a small house with a white picket fence. Which costs half a million dollars now, of course.\n\nPart of the failure of America has been in indoctrinating Americans that they live in the perfect country. We don't actually try to improve, we just try to get wealthier.", "No, there are not.", "seems fair enough", "They are free to go with him if they want, no law stopping them. ", "Of course not. That's ridiculous. Mexico has its problems to sort out but its not simple. Basic human rights such as freedom of speech aren't a thing in Mexico. I've read articles about journalists being shutdown by the government.", "The immigration system is the immigration system. I’ve got friends from all over the world now who started out with absolutely nothing and are now successful Americans. The system works.", "So in 30 years he never once tried to apply for residency or a work permit? He did nothing? ", "They're probably dead", "I can't argue with the \"inheritance tax\" but \"death tax\" seems like it would be universal, but it isn't unless you leave an estate over $5 million.\n\nEveryone dies, but not everyone leaves enough of estate for provide a large enough inheritance to be taxed.", "I always try to think of it the other way around. \n\nSupposing I just entered Japan illegally tomorrow, or entered as a tourist and deliberately overstayed my visa. At that point I would be unsurprised if the Japanese authorities caught up to me and made me leave the country. \n\nSuppose I stayed for 2 years. What's the difference?\n\nSuppose I had a kid and stayed for 5 or 10 or even 30 years? Sure it sucks more and more and more but fundamentally it's the same problem. I never had legal status, and doing things like staying for an extra long time, or having a child, doesn't make my status legal. I would know that all along. \n\nSo as sad as it is a family is (temporarily) broken apart, this man was an illegal immigrant and he knew it and he never attempted to gain legal status by going back to Mexico and applying for it. ", "Uhh you can land a construction job pretty easily, but sure. In fact the dude who mows my parents lawn now and while I was still at home had a couple felonies on his record, but nothing violent. Definitely not while I'm not home, though.\n\nYou seem to assume I'm some hypocrite or unwilling to put some skin in the game myself. I assure you, that is not the case. Also, I will be keeping a firearm nearby if you have a murder charge and you will be regularly reminded of that fact.", "Have you looked at the cost of, and restrictions on Australian immigration? I checked, it's not free or easy.", "The us allows more immigrants into its borders than any country in the world. ", "That’s a huge part of what DACA does. Which Trump has refused to renew unless congress agrees to pay for the wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for.", "Not even surprised anymore when it's the U.S. Inhumane.", "The article says he did. ", "Except he didn't do anything to get into the United States, his family member brought him in as a ten year old. If this was a guy who was 23 when he got here that would be one thing, what we're talking about is a ten year old boy who was brought to the US. He has a job, he has a family, he has a clean record -- what more could we ask for? He is exactly what our society wants and needs. \n\nHe has been deemed unacceptable because when he was ten his family member decided to move here illegally. It's stupid from an economic standpoint, we're losing a taxpayer. It's stupid from a moral standpoint, we are essentially punishing a child and breaking apart a family. It makes no sense from a practicality standpoint, now we have to spend taxpayer money to remove a beneficial member of society while also potentially increasing the dependency of a family who just lost a significant source of income. \n\nHow about we start thinking about these things from a pragmatic point of view: How does removing this individual benefit our country?", "Oh so if it's illegal is must be wrong!", "I seriously am confused. Regardless if he had documentation or not, he was married to a US citizen. My friends in the Navy, when they got married automatically became citizens. From what they told me, once you're married you just go to immigration with or without documents and you're a citizen. You're already married so they can't deport you. I'm confused.", "Legal immigration for people without special status (PhDs, CEOs, etc) can take [up to 24 years](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/01/31/how-long-is-the-immigration-line-as-long-as-24-years/), and you're not allowed in the country during that time.", "That's not a lot when they make 80% of the money dude...why do conservatives love to throw out pit of context numbers ", "\" entering illegally breaking the law.\"\n\n\nwhich it is ", "Expired F1 (student visa) is not the same though. If she had a valid I-20 or OPT/CPT even when the visa was expired, that doesn't make her stay here illegal. ", "How is DACA working out for this guy? DACA isn't anywhere near what is needed for immigration reform", "It's [not possible](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/fiance-marriage-visa-book/chapter11-1.html) to apply for a green card while in the US (\"adjust status\") if you entered illegally.\n", "Blulight is still the shit", "This the planet of the fucking apes. How is this shit seriously happening?", "Some people are scared that they'll be deported if they try to become legal citizens after being here for a while. He might have thought that his parents brought him here legally and didn't find out until he was older that he wasn't a legal citizen. No matter which way you slice it, it is cruel to rip a man away from his family. ", "I would like to see the statistics stack up for norway against Haiti and these african countries (shitholes you could say if you were politically inclined) lol", "They don't let the kid keep any of the money either.", "Exactly, it's a shitty situation and a shitty system but it IS the system. Essentially he took a gamble, a gamble that most people in his situation would take. He took that gamble instead of \"self-deporting\" probably for the exact reasons you state. I don't blame him, I think most people would do the same, but I also don't blame ICE for doing their job, the law can't just arbitrarily change for any given situation and as of right now that IS the law. \n\nNow, what we should be trying to do is change the law so that things like this stop happening. Channel your anger into that, not the people upholding the current law.", "If the kid is Mexican the Republicans probably would", "If he had been there that long it wasn’t conditional. Especially if he was in a position trusted enough to work with the fbi. I’d guess he broke an unrelated law and didn’t want coworkers that didn’t have to know to know ", "> That simply cannot be allowed.\n\nThat's harsh, man.", "kicking out illegals isnt intolerance", "I blame Ben...", "Ah yes because no law in our nation has ever been unjust or foolish, and no law has ever been changed because of emotional appeal. Honestly, do you hear yourself?", "And his children now grow up without a father. Then the conservatives will scream “where are the parents at??!!??” When the kids get into trouble. All the while remaining ignorant of the fact that their policies are destroying families and making our country far far worse. This just makes no fucking sense. ", "Fraud for the purpose of paying extra taxes truly a dreadful crime. As for Identify theft, no, somebody else's social security number might draw attention, they're usually assigned to absolutely nobody. Which means the tax money goes in, and never comes out.\n\nhttps://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/\n\nThere's your source.", "But... good luck using bloogle and readit for your internet needs.", "That's true. Ive got friends who have taken advantage of this process. Do it right and you can be here legally for an extended time without being an illegal immigrant. And no, those friends of mine arent from the UK or Canada. They're from a very fucked, politically and socially, country called Zimbabwe. But doing things right is what's the key here.", "So, he just has to leave and then apply?", "\"Let's disregard laws that I don't like!\" No man that makes you an anti-fa retard", "Arguing illegal immigrants pay their fair amount of taxes will never be a legitimate argument bc they do not.\n\nEdit: as a whole, not individually", "> That information might be accurate but that's not a proper source\n\nEven if they are biased, if the information is accurate then why is it not a good source", "Obviously he would've learned that but don't you think it's too late to drop literally everything to try and go and re-enter the country?\n\nI thought the whole reason to deport people was if they were shitty citizens causing crime...not tax payers who have children and a family. ", "Thank you for worrying about this man's welfare, lets send him back to a country he has no memory of and tear him away from his family and his home of thirty years to make sure nobody exploits him, you're a real hero.", "Having the US government chase down and deport almost exclusively Hispanics instead of Canadians and Europeans overstaying their visas", "Out out out. Don’t let the wall hit ya where the good old split ya", "My friend came to America 25 years ago. He became a legal citizen within those 25 years. This guy had more than enough time.", "Fuck you OP for trying to twist this into some narrative. I quit Facebook only to be fed this kind of bullshit on Reddit. ", ">I would say cultural assimilation is the most important part tbh. If someone doesn't agree with the values of free speech, freedom of religion, etc, they shouldn't be allowed in.\n\n\nNot really a problem with illegal immigrants. They tend to value those stuff\n\n>After that comes all the other things that matter like crime\n\n\nThey commit lower rates of crime than native born Americans\n\n>economy\n\nAlready mentioned they are net positives \n\n\n>Someone who has committed crimes in their country of origin should be immediately disqualified. Some people want to take advantage of the welfare system which is a problem, though to be fair we have that same problem with deadbeats already in the country anyways.\n\nYes, those commiting crimes should go. The vast vast majority come here to work so the second part isn’t a problem\n\n>but there's also the fact that if he's been illegal the entire time he's been here, he hasn't been paying taxes all the while reaping their benefits. That's a problem too.\n\n\nActually, he’s likely paying into taxes while never being able to get social security and other stuff. I already pointed out that people like him are NET POSITIVES...that includes the tax situation \n\n", "If just about anyone from any country can get into the US and the path to citizenship is start a family and have a job, hell yeah that's a slippery slope.", "I don't pay American taxes. Because I'm not American but trust me I pay a lot of income tax. You're really quick at jumping to really bad conclusions with almost no information. It's a really really really bad way to live your life.", "But why do we care? I guess this is my biggest concern. We have thousands of miles of entirely unused real estate in this country. We have an abundance of resources. Why do we care if people from Mexico want to come here and be American citizens? \n\nDo we think that by doing this to this man that suddenly hieves rapists and drug dealers will be like \"Yo guys we can't illegally immigrate to America! They're throwing people out!!\"\n\n", "You should check your heart. Too much hate in there fellow.\nHave a great day.", "I wouldn't have started a family in the first place knowing I'd be at risk of abandoning them every single day. And who said he'd have to go alone? Most people bring their families with them when they move. And if he thinks his family is better off without him in America then that is a risk he took when he started one. ", "So he should have run away from his family at 10?", ">He's American in every way, except on paper.\n\nyeah and the \"except on paper\" bit comes from the very reasonable fact that marriage does not make you a citizen. Also \"except on paper\" means \"he's an american except he's not\". \n\n>who was raised in America, is participating in the US economy, and raising American kids with an American wife.\n\nnone of these things = citizen\n\n>How is deporting him doing any good?\n\nit's kinda how laws work. Either you uphold them or you don't. ", "It is. It is the \"non-US\" race.\n\nNo matter what your opinions on new immigration, it is baffling that things like OP can happen.", "Cept, he wasn't on a visa. And yes, overstaying your visa is a criminal offense or people wouldn't get in trouble with it. ", "You didn't accept that a man who made the decision every day for 30 years to remain an illegal immigrant is a totally alright dude who deserves the public's unquestioning support.", "fuck you. He was brought here when he was 10. What kind of person are you?", "Bill Clinton did pass a reform that lasted a few months at the end if his term. It allowed an illegal immigrant to adjust status without having to leave the country while they waited for approval. Therefore not having to leave children/ family. My wife took advantage and has since become a citizen. ", "> am I taking the bait right now?\n\nyes", "What are you supposed to do when your family bring you to a country as a child? His entire life was in the states, even asking him to uproot at 18 and leave would have been too big of an ask .\n\nEdit - Nevermind. Your username screams to me that you won't have a measured response to this, beyond send him back to his shithole.", "Obama did nothing about this for eight years. He punted. Just like the Democratic Party punted. I could’ve set up some sort of compromise over immigration but he did nothing whatsoever except kick the issue down the road to the next president. Trump ran on the ticket of dealing with this problem. He’s trying to.", "He was 9 years old when his parents brought him here. He had no say in the matter. ", "Pfft if a law is unjust it is your duty to fight against it. ", "makes sense if you're not a socialist.", "Shhh he is trying to make this person out to be a villain. Curious how many times he breaks traffic laws.", "AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!!!", "When he was 10 his parents brought him to the country illegally ", "I am a leftist and see a lot of bad in the dems, but it doesn't compare at all to the shit the right tries to pull. Neither side is perfect, just one side goes out of it's way to be shit.", "How do you think laws get written?", "Sucks, but there has to be a line. No matter where that line is, some will benefit and some will suffer.", "My parents actually respect the laws of other countries unlike some ", "E N T E R. L E G A L L Y. ", "They should be enforced. Obama basically abandoned the ICE and the new governing body is enforcing the law. He had 30 years to apply. ", "Good", "He most certainly would have been brought here.\n\nMy dad was brought here to get away from the violence and shitty govt in El Salvador. He wasn't brought here because his parents thought he'd get free education. He was brought here so he wouldn't die.\n\nEdit: He currently has an awesome job with the US government and volunteers a lot of his time helping a local Girl Scout troop 🇺🇸👍", "He is more of an American than any Trump supporter I've ever met.", "> I definitely agree on hitting wall street. Those fuckers are getting away with robbery on a national level.\n\nCare to expand?....", "He can't apply while in the country illegally. \n\nHe'd have to leave, then apply...with nowhere to go having spent his entire life here. Even if he was to try at 18 or 20, where'd he have gone? It's a tough spot to be in. \n\nThis is why DACA is such a no-brainer. These kids are in shitty positions through no fault of their own. We've invested in them at this point and this is their home. Might as well put them on the books and change immigration law and enforcement to prevent this from being a recurring issue.", "Yes", "> Which is bullshit, because here is a guy with a family, a career, and a spotless record\n\nNo, he entered the country illegally, which is against the law. The thing about law and order is that often there may not be a foreseeable benefit to an individual situation, but there is a huge benefit to having such a system. I would hope we can at least acknowledge there's huge drawbacks to a system where anyone can get full legal status to live in the US whenever they want. \n\nWe can argue what the immigration system should and should not be. But I can't get behind the argument that people should be excused for violating it. Every other country has the right to control their own immigration policy. If I just showed up in the UK and lived there illegally for 10 years, I don't know how I could feel like a victim for getting deported. Hell, if you illegally enter Mexico, they will deport your ass straight away and ban you for years and no one has a problem with that.", "Why is it relevant to mention it was MLK day? ", "Canada has much stricter immigration laws than America.", "Hm... Equal rights? Social justice? The correlations are there unless you're just looking at skin color", "I'm sure you were well versed on immigration law as a young child", "I'm not agreeing with anyone here, but what you're saying makes no sense. Speeding, and DUIs are enforced, and offenders are prosecuted. So your argument is entirely irrelevant here. ", "someone call ice on this motherfucker", "Sure you did, 1 day old account.", "You're a fucking troll. Go back to T_D. \"Tough medicine\" my ass. He didn't do anything wrong. It's inconceivably heartless for you to actually take that position. ", "They are entirely heartless and extenuating circumstances are almost always ignored.", "No, we wouldn't, because that wouldn't make any sense. But when you spend the day remembering what a famous person was famous for, and you see something happening that reminds you of that person, sometimes you say, \"hey, this reminds of that person we are celebrating today.\"", "Kafkaesque would also mean making it so difficult and confusingly obtuse to even follow the law. \n\nThis man wants to follow the law but due to a the legal process set up he cannot follow the law. He was brought here when he was ten.", "I'm jaywalking and you can't stop me.", "Doesn't that mean they are committing identity theft/fraud and probably causing problems/harm to a citizen of the country? Honest question.", "If someone is from Europe and falls in love there’s a number of things you can do. Moving in with someone and working illegally is the worst path. They need to go back to Europe and re-enter legally. Either save up their money and come back on a tourist visa or get a student visa and attend school or apply for a job in the US that will sponsor them. It’s easily rectified by just leaving the country. As far as being in love goes, well, there’s always marriage. But that would be a lot easier to sort out if they went home. That said, because they have overstayed they should consult with an immigration lawyer if they do decide to marry. It can all be worked out but because big decisions should be made.", "> should have took\n\nTaken.", "Incepulation.", "Yeah he has to leave and become a LEGAL citizen. Glad you're starting to figure it out.", "Yeah but once you're here and in violation, there are bans on you coming back for a long time. \n\nNot much he could do about that as a 10 year old kid. ", "Look at his post history, it's just a shit show of judgement and hate.", "The current GOP is a cancer on this country. Could pretty much blame all of our major problems on them and it wouldn't even be satirical or stretching the truth..", "Then prosecute the parents, not the child. ", "Fuck Trump.\n\nThis is so scummy. ", "Do people apply to come to the US, live/work and get taxed for 10 years in the US, go back and complete the paperwork, and then come back and take a plane/cab to the house they were living in for the last 10 years? \n \nAs soon as a baby is born, should paperwork be put in for getting into America?", "Not sitting around and being a leech for thirty years. ", "You don’t need research when you have the life experience of your own father coming to America in 1978. He had $5 in his pocket and worked his ass off in a restaurant to finally apply and be granted citizenship in 1989. He could of done just the same. ", "Shouldn't we? Why do they get to keep more of their money because they have more? ", "Actually, it can be [as much as 24 years](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/01/31/how-long-is-the-immigration-line-as-long-as-24-years/) for some people.", "I can't believe you took the time to type out any of that bullshit response in a straight-forward manner. ", "Yeah, that's true but that doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to have an opinion about the rules. I think there should be exceptions made in these sorts of cases.\n\nAnd yes, it is cruel to rip a man from his family.", "Yes, fraud. Nobody here is saying he didn't break the law.", "It's a huge, *huge* problem and we are being taken advantage of.\n\nArticle that came out yesterday:\n\nhttp://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/01/14/california-maternity-hotels-get-not-friendly-visit-feds-588181\n\n>On Tuesday, Homeland Security agents raided Southern California apartment complexes that were serving as “maternity hotels,” where Chinese women were being assisted to give birth to US citizen children.\n>\n>One Irvine, California luxury apartment complex housed a number of pregnant women who allegedly paid between $40,000 and $80,000 to give birth in the US, NBC reports.\n>\n>The operators of the birth tourism ring at the Carlyle counseled their clients on how to obtain a visa, how to conceal their pregnancy while traveling, and how to avoid suspicious immigration officers at the airport.\n>\n>Once in California, the women were cared for and pampered in amenity-filled apartments costing as much as $3,000 a month. Handlers drove the mothers-to-be to doctors’ visits, restaurants, and baby supply stores.\n\nAnd the kicker? Even though the people doing this are incredibly wealthy, the nice taxpayers and anyone with an insurance policy are having to foot the bill for their deliveries.\n\n>When the moment of delivery arrived, the women were taken to various Orange County hospitals, where they were charged reduced rates for the indigent. The mothers paid hospitals as little as $4,000 or in some cases nothing for medical services worth $25,000.\n>\n>The parents of a child born in 2014 paid $4,000 for the mother’s hospital stay despite having a quarter of a million dollars in the bank and spending money at Las Vegas hotels and stores.\n\nAnd people wonder why the cost of their healthcare is so high...", "You think the only language they speak is English? Lol\n\nAnd people do that all the time when they're crossing the border this way. Why can't they do it the other way too? And why does it have to be \"easy\"? The things that benefit you and your family the most are often difficult", "His approval rating is under 40, seeing as that’s voters, his supporters are nowhere near half the country.\n\n", "Ayy same", "Yeah. It looks like the guys parents didn't think about this when they decided to come here illegally. Shame on them. ", "So you’re admitting it’s illegal", "The dude literally said “from undesirable countries”. ", "I for one think the US should be more humane and accepting than almost every other country, not less, given what a great country it is.", "MLK wasn't a socialist, he was merely trying to mirror what Jesus taught. Of course Jesus was a long-haired Middle-Easterner that taught that it was more difficult for a rich man to get into the Kingdom of Heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. I wonder what Fox News would make of that?", "This nation had black people in the back of the bus just 50 years ago. Shining star? You drank the Kool aid.", "somebody upvote this man!", "Get brought to a foreign country at ten years old, spend thirty years there forming a family and a life? Get deported \n\nIt's so SIMPLE", "They ARE paying taxes. Anything they buy has taxes attached to it. They have income taxes taken from their income like everyone else but since the SSN they use isn't there, they just pay into the system and don't get to collect. They pay rent which has property taxes factored in.\n\nUndocumented immigrants pay taxes just like everyone else.", "[MLK](https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html):\n\n\n> Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.” \n\n\n> We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was \"legal\" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was \"illegal.\" It was \"illegal\" to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler's Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers. If today I lived in a Communist country where certain principles dear to the Christian faith are suppressed, I would openly advocate disobeying that country's antireligious laws.\n\n\n> Sometimes a law is just on its face and unjust in its application. For instance, I have been arrested on a charge of parading without a permit. Now, there is nothing wrong in having an ordinance which requires a permit for a parade. But such an ordinance becomes unjust when it is used to maintain segregation and to deny citizens the First-Amendment privilege of peaceful assembly and protest. I hope you are able to see the distinction I am trying to point out. In no sense do I advocate evading or defying the law, as would the rabid segregationist. That would lead to anarchy. One who breaks an unjust law must do so openly, lovingly, and with a willingness to accept the penalty. I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law.\n\n\nI think it’s clear that, were he alive today, he would speak in defense of Dreamers. Our immigration laws, while reasonable on their face, are now unnecessarily separating families, many of whom have lived peaceably in this country for decades while paying taxes and growing our economy. Those laws, he might still say — as the above passages allude to — are unjust. People found guilty should accept the consequences. But we should also work to change the laws. ", "Hang on.\n\nI get that some in this country fear a tidal wave of illegals stealing all the jerbs, despite the fact that most illegals are doing the shit that citizens don't want to do.\n\nBut I was under the impression that we don't punish children for the crimes of their parents. Garcia's parents brought him here when he was 10, so he had no agency or choice in the matter.\n\nSo now ICE and our government are punishing someone for the crimes of their parents? Hell even IF we held children accountable for their parents' crimes we still have laws that treat minors with more leniency than adults. AND we have a statute of limitations on said crimes.\n\nBottom line is, if you've raised a family, paid your taxes, and been a valuable contribution to society, you're a goddamn citizen, laws bedamned.", "I'm saying the exact opposite. That's the entire point of my post and why this whole comment chain started. \n\n>This analogy cannot be answered by those on the left. Their only hope is to call it a false equivalency, but it’s actually a very legitimate point. \n\nMy whole point is that the analogy is shit. ", ">Unfortunately you can't just squat somewhere and get citizenship.\n\nMaybe it should work that way. If you managed to \"squat\" (read: worked hard to live and provide for your family) in America for 30 years, why shouldn't we make that person a citizen? Makes way more sense than kicking them out.", "spent 30 years illegally here. ", "Oh look, /u/Auxilae doesn't understand how our horrible immigration process works. \n\nThis man had no path to become a citizen. He would have had to leave as a 10 year old to apply for citizenship.", "It's a shitty situation and a shitty system but it IS the system. Essentially he took a gamble, a gamble that most people in his situation would take. He took that gamble instead of \"self-deporting\". I don't blame him, I think most people would do the same, but I also don't blame ICE for doing their job, the law can't just arbitrarily change for any given situation and as of right now that IS the law. \n\nNow, what we should be trying to do is change the law so that things like this stop happening. Channel your anger into that, not the people upholding the current law.", "Well you know what, if a U.S. citizen went to any other country and tried to live there without a visa, by being illegal we would be deported too.", "they immigrated. They didn't have legal documents to do so. Thus, undocumented. No person is illegal.", "No. States that require ID to vote should have a free ID available. \n\nRisk eviction? Who would rent an apartment to someone who didn’t have an ID? Not me. ", "Allow some sort of application to be started without forcing him to leave to a country he hasn't lived in since he was ten possibly ", "And now you know why the media is such a powerful tool. Unfortunately right now it's used for deceiving America.", "Perhaps he tried. Naturalization and immigration are costly, confusing, complicated, and not even a remote guarantee. ", "Is there a reason he couldn't apply for a work visa or something during that time? There are a number of visa programs I would think he'd have been eligible for. \n\nI've known a good handful of immigrants who have bounced between legal and illegal, and never seem to have had a problem getting a new work visa even after being illegal for months or in one case several years. Is there a reason this guy couldn't have done similar?", "Oh yeah dude he broke a bunch of laws!!! Damn dude yeah fuck this dude for existing here and not there ", "So hostile. Not about their color. Its about them entering the country the proper way like many before them did and can still do. The fact you turn it into a racial issue is the problem ", "> The top 1% of earners (650,000 and up) Pay 45.7% of the total sum of income tax collected annually.\n\nWe're taxed on a progressive scale. There isn't any one percentage top earners pay.", "\"My anecdotal story trumps your facts and statistics!\"", "> What could he have done?\n\nMoved back to Mexico some time in the last 30 freaking years and then come legally.", "We already have those laws. You think we only deport Mexicans or something? ", "So they should be punished even more, because they aren't dumb with their money?", "Ah yes, the remorseless criminality of a child who was brought into a strange country at 10 years of age, and spent over 20 years building a life there. \n\nWhat a savage. \n\nGood riddance. ", "Pay isn’t decided by your employer solely. It is based on the labor markets value of a position. \n\nFor example. \n\nA pipeliner in Texas earns $10 an hour LESS than a pipeliner in North Dakota. This is because the market values the labor at a higher rate in north Dakota because if it didn’t....no one would work there. \n\nIf someone is willing to work for less that is the market rate for that job. It’s not a crime it isn’t mean it is basically just economics. Take emotion out of the conversation and it becomes much clearer. ", "If you blame people for their ancestors' actions, you're the racist. \n\nAlso, how did 'unchecked immigration' work out for the original residents of North America? You're making a rhetorical own-goal. ", "You won't like Reddit then\n\nDelete your account", "Even if that's the case, I'd really like to find out why he felt obligated to mention Obama.", "His parents brought him here hoping that he could achieve what they couldn't. They brought him here because they believed he could be given an education so he could provide for his family one day, and not have them suffer or want like they did when they were growing up.\n\nHis parents are not to blame. He is not to blame. They just believed this country was as free as it claimed to be.", "Sounds horrible\n\nMuch better to just break the law for 30 years", "They get to keep their money because they're exploiting loopholes that they fought to have. \n\n", "Your point being?", "Where would someone like this guy go? Do they just toss him over the border and say goodbye or is he given some sort of housing and money to start over across the border again? Seems unlikely he'd have family or know anyone.", "Please bring downvotes for comments back. Thanks. ", "Green card is way more different than actual citizenship.", "So, it would be raising your IQ? ", "Yes but what troubles me is he has had 30 years to apply and become a citizen", "How do these people sleep at night? Doing what they do?", "Easy, by his parents not following the law and illegally migrating themselves and a child into a country that had an existing legal immigration system. And then he stayed, stayed for 30 years-illegally. Its a head scratcher for me that if I as an American, illegally enter your country and don't earn legal citizenship for 30 years, why it would confuse anyone as to why I might be considered illegal. ", "Nice. ", "I'm sure plenty of illegal immigrants can't wait to put themself on the official radar...", "So now we get to lube up and fuck him too? What a deal! Won't even give him a reach around!", "Guys look, a retard in the wild!", "There is no path to legal permanent resident status if you've entered the country illegally. He was forced to choose between staying as an illegal or returning to Mexico, wait for anywhere between 10 to 20 years of bar penalty until he can apply for a border crossing document and then he would still need to apply to be a permanent resident. (Which obviously is harder for it to be approved considering his hypothetical legal history at that point)", "Yea! That 10 year old needed to earn his place here through merit!", "And not becoming a citizen. This is how it works in nearly every country. If you want to be a citizen, then apply to become a citizen. He had more than enough time.", "So he was here for 30 years and never bothered becoming a citizen?\n\nAdios amigo!", "How do you think one becomes a US citizen?", "Really. How many illegal Europeans are getting deported? I’m willing to bet it’s close to zero. ", "Because there are so many white immigrants! Thats the reason the percentage of the population who are white has been steadily dropping! Too many damn white immigrants!", "Social security numbers aren't super checked when you apply for things like marriage certificates. ", "Yeah. The parents should have had some forethought.", "So serious question. How are you here for that long and not apply for citizenship?", "So he willingly took the risk by staying. \n\nThe law is the law. The world isn't always a nice place, but that's the way things work. \n\nIt's a sad story but it's completely on him. Reality doesn't give a fuck about your feelings. ", "DACA isn't even an immigration law, just an unconstitutionally enforced immigration policy which should have gone through congress instead of an executive order. Maybe you should put pressure on the democratic leadership who are royally fucking up their chance to make a deal with trump. ", "Do you think it's that easy? It isn't. Chances are he didn't marry a legal US citizen spouse for a family based petition, he's not a victim of a crime for a U-Visa, his children are too young to file a petition on his behalf because they are probably 15 or 18, and he might have a permanent bar on his file due to a reentry or some other permanent bar that makes his illegible. Whatever the case, discard your assumption that the pathways available for US citizenship or residency are plenty, they aren't. ", "I don't know much about this topic, but the article said that the previous laws would have let him stay, they only changed them not long ago. Sooo, maybe your laws should be what they were a year ago? ", "Seems a shame....", "I know he came here illegally and had time to right the course but this is still a really shitty situation ", "Easy to say when you grow up in a peaceful regime - sometimes the option of staying is also not tolerable and you have to take a chance.", "As has been pointed out time and time again. Except yes, we fucking do decide when we want to enforce laws and when we don't. It's in no way and never has been followed straightforwardly ", "> TRUMPS family was banished from Bavaria and sought refuge in America....\n\nSo you know, they probably had to deal with the paperwork that all immigrants had to at that time when they where coming into the nation. Thus, making them Legal. Funny how people seem to forget that concept when speaking of how ancestors came to America as immigrants.", "But you're making plenty of assumptions yourself. So it's fine when you do but not others? The truth is you're mad at a total stranger for a reason that you don't even know is true or not.", "Do you realize that people were trying to kill the Anne Frank? It is the absolute piece of shit worse analogy I’ve ever heard say that this guy is like Anne Frank. She didn’t break any laws. He is not targeted because of his race.", "And typing on reddit is fixing it? Lmao", "He's brown though ", "One hand this is sad.\n\nOne hand he's an idiot as he knew the risks.", "The inability of people to make this sort of connection is why this country is so fucked up.", "Technically the first settlers were invaders. Invasion is not typically legal. ", "You had 30 years to get your immigration shit figured out, and you still didn't do it? \n\nCya.", "> failed to renew his green card\n\nthat's not how it works. Permanent residency doesn't expire, you can renew green card even after it expired if you don't want to pursue citizenship. He could have had his residency revoked for various reasons unknown to his employees (you).", "I can't be bothered responding comments ", "It's actually 2.7% according to the world bank, if we are going to split hairs.\n\nBecause $28 billion dollars in social support means that Mexico doesn't have to pay for it. \n\n\nMexico spent $6 million a year lobbying for tourism interests, and tourism makes less money than remittances does for Mexico.", "> Lol, what about them is harsh or severe? \n\nYou don't think that it's harsh or severe that a man brought here as a child, who because of that can't ever get citizenship, is then, after 30 years, ripped from his family and sent to a country he probably has no memory of?\n\nAnd then can't even apply* to come back and start a process that can take more than 20 years for another decade?\n\nBy the time he can even apply to return lawfully, he'll be over fifty. The process to gain entry can take years- probably decades.\n\nIt's not harsh or severe that a man who's committed no crimes, was brought here as a child, has abided by our laws, paid taxes, has a family and done no harm, should be told he can't come back until he's most likely dead of old age?\n\nMaybe we have different definitions of \"harsh\" or \"severe\", but I'll stick with mine, thanks.", "Lol, ok Donald. ", "He's had 30 years to re-enter the county legally and file his I-130. Thankfully we don't have to \"ask\" people to comply with Federal law ", "Doesn't stop him from having a strong opinion and no empathy!", "So in essence by breaking yet another law (using fake/stolen SSN), they do pay taxes.\n", "Just curious, if I did the same thing in your country how would I go about becoming a citizen?", "Yes. This. Gosh whenever I say this people look at me like I’m Hitler or something. I don’t have a problem with the people being here, it’s just that they’re here illegally. And I do agree that the system needs some changing. But we can’t set a bad precedent for others to come here illegally as well. As unpopular as this opinion may seem this is what I think. ", "You may not want to work with Republicans. That's fine. If you ever want to get anything done you're going to have to some day. Your lack of faith in the existence of a third party will contribute to the ridiculous two party tug of war that you're obviously not happy about.", "He isn't qualified for it, he'd have to leave the country to do so.", "#- BUILD", "Don't know, I would assume a few billion. But again a lot of taxes you simply can't avoid.", "No they go back with the parents or if they are old enough, go back solo.", "The top comment already asked this and got an answer. ", "Because it is illegal. There is no negotiating the law. You must be broken. ", "Your reply seems quite angry. The original comment was fairly generic saying “illegals don’t pay taxes”. I’m fairly sure no one is arguing about the nationality of the individual in the story. He replies to your comment are from he generalization made that illegals do not contribute enough to the pool of tax dollars for the US. Also bringing in the compensation of an ICE agent is like saying that people who have committed other types of crime (roberry, fraud, murder, etc) don’t contribute enough to pay for the compensation of law enforcement officers. \n\nI’d be curious to know the story of your parents as there have been various instances of various programs that the US has created to make legal Immigration from South American countries easier (TPS for example) ", "It's not a strawman. That isn't what his comment said when I responded. That's what the \"edit:\" means. ", "That's a fucking brutal amount honestly. Is 10 years necessary? If we're that worried about them entering within the next 10 years, shouldn't that be associated with different crimes? Even if they're insanely likely to be abused like \"Suspected of intent to do dangerous illegal shit while in the country\" or something like that? Not literally just, \"Well he didn't have the right paperwork. No trying to come back for ten years!\" ", "A misdemeanor, not a felony. I would hardly call people guilty of a misdemeanor a \"criminal\". I would be hard pressed to believe most people make it through life without violating a law to the extent of a misdemeanor. I am probably have. ", "Maybe you could let my boss know so I can get tomorrow off too", "True dat, true dat.", "Perhaps there might be amnesty involved, since it seems he got a goodbye session with his kids, the deportation might be voluntary. Best case is they waive the 10 year, he marries.\n\nLikely case is still 10+ years before he gets back.", "> And not becoming a citizen.\n\nHe basically had no means through which to do this.", "Think about the opportunities that they opened for his kids though. They get to grow up in America, instead of the possibly dangerous country of his parent's origins. I'd say that this man is very grateful for his parents giving his kids the opportunity for a good education and future.", "man this is terrible. honest question though, 30 years, why didnt he apply to become a citizen?", "I welcome people who come here legally through the paths that are setup. I feel no sadness for illegals that are removed. ", "Nah, because he came here illegally (even if he was a child) he's not allowed to apply for residency, much less citizenship, so it doesn't really matter how long he studied.", "You realize you cannot apply for papers while in the country illegally, right? You must leave the country to start the process. And then it takes years and years and there's no guarantee you'll ever get legal residency. Not to mention if you get found out for being an illegal and get deported you are automatically barred from entering the US for a minimum of 10 years. It's a tough situation to be in, especially for parents with American children, you don't want to be separated from them for all those years. Not saying I condone illegal immigration (I don't), but I understand their situation. ", "I think almost everyone is in agreement that there should be a path, but right now there isn't other than leaving and coming back.", "“We don’t want people to illegally enter our border, and doing so is not a free ticket to Canada,” Mr. Hussen said in an interview. “We are saying, ‘You will be apprehended, screened, detained, fingerprinted, and if you can’t establish a genuine claim, you will be denied refugee protection and removed.’ ”\n\n- Canada's minister of immigration, Ahmed Hussen.", "Minorities? They say this shit on CNN and NPR. NPR, CNN, social media and people I meet in real life are crafting my \"narrative\" of democrats. One of the main reasons I'm not a democrat anymore is because they called me racist for not liking Islam and its manifestations. I'm not going to still be part of a group if they keep calling me a Nazi for not liking a religion they like.", "False dichotomy and straw man. Impressive.", "He entered the country illegally was the problem. ", "But it is so hard to catch real criminals, why do you think most prisoners are in jail for pot, it is a downer and slows them down.", "Gbye. Do it right or don’t do it at all. ", "Admitting what's illegal? ", "My exact reply", "He was 9 when his parents brought him here. ", "They didn't teach you how to respect another human being huh? Or empathy? Or how you literally are just fucking lucky to actually have been born in this country, and that doesn't make you better than this person, just luckier, and apparently more of an ass hole.", "Why does it matter if this happened on MLK day?", "Man, Fuck Trump. That is all.", "Yeah his parents should have just left him behind on his own as a 10 year old? What? Or we couldn't just fix the nonsensical laws", "This statement is a bit ironic on MLK day.", ">Detroit", "why am i still here then?\n\nEdit. This is really long and i have terrible spelling\n\n\nThought i should also share my story about what happens to you when you have green card and you get arrested! \nIn jan of 2001 i got arrested for getting into a fight with someone over a parking space. He called the cops and i was arrested shortly afterwards when i got into work. I charged with 3 fellonies. Spent a few days in county before i went to court. I was given a court appointed attorney and released on bond. Laweyer said he could have charges reduced to missdemenor and community service if i pleaed guilty to a lesser charge. What he did not tell me and yes i did tell him he made copies of my green card was i could be deported since i was not a citizen. A few months later in april we had a court date were i pleaded no contest to misdemeanor battery and given probation and community service. A few later i was picked up by immigration and given an order to be deported. I was told since i. Had been charged and convicted of a deportable crime which is anything except a parking ticket i had to go. I was taken to a parking garage under the immigration building in San Francisco were for 8 hours i sat on a bench in a large cell with other men and procced for removal. My wife and mother inlaw were in the process of retaining a bond for me but were to late to file that day. More and more people were added to the cell. Later that day we were put on a big prison bus with bars and shackeld to the floor. The next couple o\nHours were spent driving to bakersfield were there was a federal detention center inside the kern county jail. I was put in with other federal i mates who were awaiting trial and deportation as well. For three weeks i kept asking for them to check on my bond. They blew off untill i was told we are on our way to elloy airzona the final stop before i would be on plane back to Guatemala for my crimes. Right before i was to get on the bus i asked the new guard to check the system about my bond. When they pulled me aside and put me a seperate rooom and given my clothes and possesions from three weeks before i was picked up by them. Two people came in with a pice of paper and apologize for not releasing me the night they picked me up. He said there was some issue with the computer system and i was free to go but would still face charges at a future court date. He open door and i ran away incase they changed there minds. They had put us in a small van or bus with no windows and driven a short distance were we meet other people going to arizona too problem was i had no idea were i was so i went back knocked on the door asked were i was. He said just outside bakersfield. Now this was 2001 years before uber and smart phones. I had 3 dollars and some change and uncharged nokia phone. Walked to a circle k to call the wife and 9 hours later i was home. My court date a few days after 9/11 were i was told if i wanted to stay in the us i better get an attorney and given a court date for early 2002. The judge explains that while my case is proccesed i dont remember the actual name of it but i was to report my current adress and show him i wss still in the here once a month. The immigration attorney filed under my wifes name since she was born here. In 2004 we had an appoint ment with some lady who would make sure our our marrige was not fake. A few days before that that time i recived a new set of legal papers saying that there is an offical order to deport me. When i called my attorney crying asking what to do she said i would be take into custody after appoint to validate our marriage. The next few days were spent at a diffrent attorney's office who filed a list minute apleal to higher court based on something else under keeping families together durring the court process. We had our meeting with nice lady she asked us to see some photos and when she saw a photo of the two of us in high school she approved our case. I was taken into custody again processed photographed finger printed and released. In 2005 i had a final court date were i granted a new green card. Almost 8-9k in fees and 5 years i got back my green card. Sorry if was soo long please ask questions if you would like\n", "Of course we do. And laws change all the time and are constantly reinterpreted by the courts. \n\nAre we throwing this guy out for reasons that actually protect and/or improve the country, or because we're just blindly adhering to a very general set of rules that never would have accounted for a situation like this? \n\nLetter of the law vs spirit of it. ", "We need reform!!", "because you're an idiot. His grandma knew.", "Actually, doing a quick search it's not even established as a crime, if you don't attempt to use the SSN to get services. \n\nhttps://legalbeagle.com/6823493-penalty-fake-social-security-number.html", "You're still blaming the Democrats for trying to get things done while the other party refused to help. I'm not blaming the Democrats for trying and not getting it done, I'm blaming the republicans for being obstructionists.\n\nAlso, please explain how he ACA has fucked up healthcare. It's helped a lot of people from what I've seen working in healthcare. It's far from perfect, but the republicans refused to work with us on it, even though the mandate was a republican idea in the 90's, so it's their fault too. ", "But then /u/TooShiftyForYou wouldn't reap the fake internet points and stir the pot.", "I didn't know it was until you asked and I looked it up, gives context that they're doing this on a holiday, would have thought they had the day off", "built by legal immigrants", "Pull himself up by little bootstraps? ¯\\\\_(ツ)_/¯", "What’s unjust about you not being able to waltz into this country and take advantage of public programs funded by taxpayers? \n\nEdit: what did I do", "Username checks out", "Yea it's sad for the family, but he was here illegally. You can say he didn't break any laws and that he wasn't violent, but it doesn't matter, if you make an exception for him you'll have to explain why you aren't giving it to everyone. This isn't a \"rules for thee but none for me\" type of thing.\n\nAlso, it's not called an undocumented citizen, it's called illegal immigrant.", "you still have to. except your tax returns are denied to you.", "I as hell will let my emotions get in the way of a government separating a father from his children. He had no fault in it, they didn’t have a fault in it. This is in no way fair or just.", "Percentages don't mean shit, the bottom percent pay taxes an that means they can't afford good food or proper education. They might be paying less of their income, and may pay less percent of the overall total,but what they pay is peanuts and really is dwarfed because they could NEVER make up the difference ", "GOT EM’ ", "You don't pay taxes on wealth you pay taxes on income... You do know that right.", "One could make the argument that as long as you don't get caught after X amount of time you are safe, would only encourage more to do so. ", "Living in Mexico is not a death sentence. Granted, things are better in the US, but there are millions living in Latin America and doing just fine. I don’t get this despair over going back to live in another civilized country. He can bring his family too. If they care about the number of Olive Gardens in town more than keeping family together, it’s their call. ", "No one is arguing about the law being applied. People here argue about the law being sensible. No one is helped with a law like this being applied to a family 30 years in the making. ", "Absolutely not a straw man. GOP voters have been conditioned to view these issues through a xenophobic and commonly outright racist lens.", "Do you think it's that easy? It isn't. Chances are he didn't marry a legal US citizen spouse for a family based petition, he's not a victim of a crime for a U-Visa, his children are too young to file a petition on his behalf because they are probably 15 or 18, and he might have a permanent bar on his file due to a reentry or some other permanent bar that makes his illegible. Whatever the case, discard your assumption that the pathways available for US citizenship or residency are plenty, they aren't. ", "Wealth is not finite.", "If you are asking this question, it is clear you haven't read up on the words and philosophy of MLK, Jr. I encourage you to do so - that is, after all, the purpose of this holiday. ", "What you’re saying is he had 30 years (22 if you count adult life) to become a legal citizen the correct way and never decided to do it. ", "It's much harder to immigrate into this country legally now thanks to racists like you that are afraid of brown people. ", "They have* to pay taxes. The IRS requires employers to withdraw taxes from their paychecks automatically. That's why you fill out a W4 when you get a new job.\n\nIf they are paid cash then the actions of the employer are illegal. Indeed, if the employer is paying in cash then it's likely that they're illegally shorting the employee's pay as well. \n\nGranted the illegal employee does owe taxes on that cash payment which is unlikely to be paid, but it's unlikely to be income taxes. Anyone being paid cash under the table is unlikely to make enough to owe income taxes. They would instead owe payroll taxes (social security and Medicaid), which the employer is also illegally not paying if they're paying cash under the table. Those again would be paid automatically if they were using a fake SSN (though it would be paid to someone else's account).\n\nThe one with all of the power over whether or not someone in the country illegally pays taxes are the employer, not the immigrant.\n\nAnd if course this ignores sales, gas, and property taxes which they pay automatically as part of any purchase or as part of their rent.", "I deeply regret not being more vocal and instead defering to a sense of having to respect differing political views from friends, family and coworkers over a couple of decades when they spouted off with hateful, right wing rhetoric. Seeing this makes me ashamed to be an American and embarrassed that I served in the military. I'm saving this link to show those racist, bigoted idiots what happens when we allow hatred a free rein in politics.", "DACA wouldn't have helped him. It only provides a 2-3 year stay, it has no extra path to citizenship or amnesty.", "Where do you think he was from birth to 10 years old?", "I hate to break it to you, but your grandpa didn't immigrate from Puerto Rico. He just moved.\n\nEdit to add your relatives from Italy and Ireland also likely faced a lot of the prejudices that Hispanics face today. It is really a shame you lack compassion given the history you seem so proud of.", "Infuriating. Trump probably gets a boner reading shit like this. ", "Some reason? We’re fucking awful and proud of it that’s why.", "I'm really not trying to be an asshole here, but can you give me some examples of \"shit like this\" existing more recently? The requirements and test questions you linked in that article were horrifically unjust and racist, but I'm failing to see it as being overly relevant today. ", "I got him a going away present - my middle finger! ", "Enforcing federal immigration law is not only just, but necessary to have an actual nation. ", "wow you are a special kind of stupid.", "I should have specified income tax. ", "The people that make 650,000 are classified as the 1%. That 1% of the population ends up paying 45.7% or 40% (depending on sources) of total income taxes collected for the year. ", "And if you don't enforce that law, then every single family from a developing country will bring their kids here illegally knowing once they're here they won't be subjected to the law.", "He's gonna be find, like you said, because he's married. I knew someone in the same situation minus the kids, in his 30's at the time but here since his teens, and married to a citizen. Deported, back here with his wife within a year. Granted it was expensive, and it took a year, but unfortunately this is a mistake that wasn't fixed for 30 years and even if it's not necessarily his fault he doesn't automatically get a win because he eluded capture for so long. And no, you don't get to stay while they decide if you should stay.", "#Leave now or be removed forcibly", "MlK day: the day where US laws shouldn’t have any jurisdiction ", "So punish the victim, and not the perpetrators? ", "Lots of children have obstacles to overcome because of poor decisions that their parents make. How is this any different? He had 30 to work to get legal. A guy who works with a friend of mine just went through this. Went to El Paso, applied the proper paperwork, got a green card and in about 10 years he will probably become a citizen. \n\nI guess this was too hard for this guy. To bad, because it can be done. He just didn't want to do it.", "You are correct. But sometimes a just society will not enforce some laws if it doesn't accomplish anything good. Like a person dying of cancer smoking a joint to relieve their pain, it might not be the best thing to throw that person in jail. Taking this person away from his family and having him try to support them while working in Mexico is a way to make our society worse, since they will likely become a drain on taxpayers when they weren't when he was here.", "They go back to their country and follow the same procedures as every other legal immigrant.\n\nEdit: Why the downvotes? You think we should be giving points for the effort they put into getting here illegally?", "He has to wait 10 years now", "Must laws be the end-all-be-all even when in practice they’re harmful?\n\nI doubt that deporting this man will be a useful deterrent for potential illegal immigrants; they’re already desperate to leave their homes. Instead, a family, and probably a community, is disrupted, and animosity is bred toward our laws and lawmakers. \n\nAnother point is that this man was brought here illegally when he was ten. In what other cases do we treat children that young as lawbreakers? Rarely, if ever. He shouldn’t be held responsible for his illegal status, especially if there are no avenues for illegally entering children to become citizens. ", "Just a bunch of retard T_D posters getting mad their evil is being exposed ", "The same as someone who didn't enter illegally and applies for legal immigration status.", "Yup.", "Yes, my in-laws are citizens they got citizenship around 15 years ago. My wife only got her citizenship last year.\n\nShe is elderly, does not work and had a visa to visit them and she just stayed and applied for a green card.", "Thank you for demonstrating your ignorance.", "Used to be legal to own human beings but that didn’t make it right. ", "A legal citizen. ", "You know literally every country in the world has to deal with this the opening to district 9 is people bitching about people from northern africa. \n\nTLDR america isn't special about this just vocal and bitches about it more.", "The crazy part of this for me is that Democratic voters are hurt the most by having weak immigration laws. Republican business owners get cheap labor and illegal immigrants generally live in blue states.", "What's easier, pushing that boulder, or leaving your family fatherless and having to go back anyway", "But he’s not. He’s an illegal immigrant he’s not American. Countries need laws. It’s a shame what happened but he’s not above the law just because he wasn’t caught for 30 years breaking it ", "I’m assuming he committed a crime and that’s the reason he’s being deported. Also I️t seems as if he’s had plenty for of time to get his papers in order. At least 20 years. So the fact that he never made the effort to gain citizenship and probably broke the law which led to his arrest and eventual deportation will never be told in this article. Trump will be blamed somehow. And it’s America’s fault he’s here illegally and we’re the home wrecker ", "Oh good point.", "Who said that?", "That's why I call it undocumented/illegal. \n\nDoesn't show your bias and shows that you're a centrist/open to everything. ", "Our taxes are paying for this. And for DJT to golf for the 94th time of his presidency ", "1. You're falling for propaganda, bots and shills. 2.Also most international redditors are from other developed western nations. America is still very much admired by the vast majority of 2nd and 3rd world ppl, who would give anything for the opportunity to live there.", "Actually, there is. It's called a waiver of unlawful presence, form I-601 or I-601A. You have to have a qualifying relative in the US, and prove their hardship if you were not able to stay in the US. You start with an immediate relative petition (I-130), then file a waiver with attached brief outlining the hardship. When the waiver is approved, you file your immigrant visa application (DS-260), and then leave the country to attend a consulate interview in your country of origin. After the interview (assuming they approve the visa), you come back in on your Visa and then get a permanent resident card shortly after. It's a long, costly process that not a lot of people are aware of, so that's why it's not often taken advantage of.\n\nSource: Immigration Paralegal", "I doubt many of the dipshit evangelicals and country club denizens foolish enough to vote for President Pussygrabber spend their time posting Pepe memes on your little sub-reddit, which was my entire point.", "What's the end game?\n\nIf bringing everyone here isn't the solution then what is?\n\nIf bringing just several million here doesn't fix things then why do it?", "I'm not sure if this has been the case her whole career but she worked for Native American Casinos. Not sure if they require much.", "You can't look at these cases through situational ethics. There needs to be a principled rule of law. People who enter the country illegally are disproportionately committing crime and on welfare. They drain society.", "He came in illegally when he was 10 which was out of his control. You can’t file for citizenship in the US if you’re already here illegally which means he would have had to move back to Mexico first. Leaving his job, his family, etc.. By the time he would have been old enough to move back to Mexico, give or take 10 years, he would have been about 20. He would have no connections or way to start a new life and begin the path towards citizenship (which republicans seem to think is such an easy thing to do. ) \n\nAll he knows is America. His friends and family are in America. He has no friends in Mexico since he was 10 when he left. It’s probably very hard at that point to find relatives in Mexico either. What exactly do you propose he does?\n\nIf he was eligible for DACA this wouldn’t be an issue but because his family immigrated 9 years early somehow it is. ", "Well that's not what he said at all ", "I don't understand why this is some giant deal to people, sure it sucks he is leaving his kids but at the end of the day everything he was doing in this country was illegal. How was he working? I don't get why everyone's all OMG, I mean if someone did something illegal 5 years ago but since then they've been an amazing citizen I don't see you all protesting that his/hers arrest warrants be deleted.", "I just don't get deporting someone who has been there for the majority of their life - they probably don't have any connection to their home country.\n\nI remember watching a documentary about a Korean national who was adopted by American parents who never got his paper work done (out of ignorance or pure negligence, I don't know) to ensure he got citizenship so he was technically undocumented and he got deported (he was convicted of felonies - not that it should matter in this instance, but it's worth noting). He was married and had kids. This guy never spoke a word of Korean. He was culturally American. It baffles me. ", "Oooooh look at you. ", "Right? Why’s this our problem? Sounds more like Mexico’s problem that we are paying for. ", "Nope, an SSN doesn't have to be assigned to anybody.", "So to abide by the law what should he have done? To me he has three choice:\n\nA) Abandon his family at 10 years old and hitchhike back across the border\n\nB) Wait 8 years until he's a legal adult and then head back across the border \n\nC) Live his life and pray nothing happens\n\nCan you honestly tell me you would've chosen option A or B? Could 99% of legal Americans have done that? ", " So in other words...he was here illegally. Bye.", "So that makes it right, huh? Law means everything?", "Just don’t ever openly mention any intent outloud to them or to anybody who may go to and tell them and I think you’d be good? I suppose they would just ask you and hope you would answer truthfully.", "Do you think it's that easy? It isn't. Chances are he didn't marry a legal US citizen spouse for a family based petition, he's not a victim of a crime for a U-Visa, his children are too young to file a petition on his behalf because they are probably 15 or 18, and he might have a permanent bar on his file due to a reentry or some other permanent bar that makes his illegible. Whatever the case, discard your assumption that the pathways available for US citizenship or residency are plenty, they aren't. ", "what do you do then? do they not have to complete specific requirements to become a citizen?", "Said who? Nice straw man.", "Ah, this is stronger and more relevant evidence to the claim. Thanks.", "I totally understand your thinking. But a lot of people do not feel like they have a good shot of legally emigrating here. It's very time consuming and expensive. It is not easy. In the past the risk of deportation was very low, so it was definitely worth it to them, I guess. ", "Still trespassing in a country where he isn't a citizen, aka a foreigner. There's no squatters rights for citizenship.", "But, again, you say \"back home\". What's \"back home\"? Where you grew up? That's in the U.S. so..... Where is he supposed to go?", "So he's a nice guy with a family. I'm a nice guy with a family, doesn't mean I'm allowed to go around breaking the law. I'm sure someone in Canada might be sad to hear some American died because they couldn't afford health care, but it doesn't mean they should have to treat everyone that manages to sneak across the border.", "Claiming Dr. King \"understood that illegal immigration...reduced job opportunities for black and other minorities\" is simply wrong. It can be argued that illegal immigration doesn't even reduce job opportunities in 2018, much less in the 1960s, when both illegal immigration and unemployment were at some of the lowest rates in the last 70 years. ", "Taking financial advantage of a country for 30 years is not the answer either.", "Yep. That's the risk you run when you wait 30 years inside the country as an illegal ", "That poor parent should probably worry about how they will be physically and sexually abused, both the parent and child, on their journey to the US more.", "Last amnesty was 1986. So this person entered right after that. So no chance to adjust status.\n", "You know the Spanish economy is in shambles right? ", "He probably didn't even think he NEEDED to do that, considering the fact that he was brought to the USA as a child. I've often found that the little things you don't even consider in life are the ones that come back to bite you in the ass.", "Would you happen to be from Norway, perchance?", "My mom and family members would say otherwise. ", "How about you first?", "I received my PhD from erowid", "Yep", "Nice strawman you tard. ", "He had 30 years to seek citizenship... He gets no sympathy from me", "Why do you care so much about what other people do with their money? \n\n", "Awwww so sad\n\nGuess I'll start voting democrat now!", "> Some people are scared that they'll be deported if they try to become legal citizens after being here for a while. He might have thought that his parents brought him here legally and didn't find out until he was older that he wasn't a legal citizen. No matter which way you slice it, it is cruel to rip a man away from his family.\n\nSo since we are imagining scenarios. What if this man decided to pay someone $500 for an American's stolen Social Security Number? I suppose it was that American's fault for having his information stolen and sold on the black market. It probably took that American thousands of dollars and months of work to get his information back on track. All because some immigrant was afraid to ask a lawyer a question.\n\n>it is cruel to rip a man away from his family.\n\nDon't do the crime if you can't do the time.", "If they are W-2ed....", "it'd be more like if your dad stole a cookie because you needed food and you'd already eaten that cookie.", "Cool, there was no law so they didn't break the law. But now we have laws and people broke the law. You can't break the law if there isn't one. You're point?", "You're projecting again.", "Depending on the state they are eligible for some assistance. When I was applying after my car accident they had huge sections on the web page that said just because you are illegal doesn't mean you can't get benefits and to click on it for more information. I was denied for being a single male with no kids.", "No but I'm pretty sure he could have left when he was anywhere between 18 and now, I'm not saying he should have ran away from his family as a 10 year old and cross the border, come on. His family screwed him over, but he could have left and returned legally in that time, but he didn't, so he's getting deported...\n\nIt's a shitty situation, but ultimately he's been breaking the law for 30 years, could the laws be better? Absolutely, but they are what they are, and you can't start making exceptions because he has a family, the law is the law and he broke it", "Except it is. How many Canadians and Europeans who overstay their visas, therefore being in the US illegally, does ICE deport? I will tell you, almost none.", "Obama Derangement Syndrome", "This is something very understated that should be spread among people it'd make a great contribution to the current conversation around immigration", "Do we condemn the children for the sins of the parents? That's not how our legal system usually works. You're right that he's not a citizen, but he should have been given the chance to become one, in my opinion. Our system is deeply broken.", "As the spouse of a legal immigrant, GOOD RIDDANCE.\n\nIt is insulting to my spouse and the millions of other legal immigrants to allow these people to live in a country they have zero respect for.", "...I was going to say something about Trump and the GOP but then realized that over the span of 30 years, we've had plenty of Democrat presence in the White House, so...I got nothing. We fucking suck. ", "30 years, man. \nCome on.", "> Do you believe that a poor parent in Guatemala right now will be deterred from coming to the US\n\nThere is nothing to wonder about, we know for a fact that it's working because border crossing is at the lowest rate in decades. ", "Willing to bet their mom came over and made every attempt to do things legally. Bet they were all granted their green cards after their lawyer showed they were conned by the husband and wife team. ", "I’m literally regurgitating numbers to put it in context. No reason to get upset. \n\nI would argue that percentages do make a great deal if difference. \n\n\nSay I pay you X but after taxes you only get 40% of X. Is that worth it? That’s making .40 cents on the dollar. That’s a shit deal. ", ">I'd hate to be a hateful person\n\n>You're literally a piece of shit human", "So I'm supposed to be sad because the guy whos been here 30 years couldn't get his shit together and file his paperwork. Maybe if we focused less on these freak cases and more on the people actually effected.", "Nope, https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/\n\nDo some research before stating an opinion and telling other more informed people to shut up please.", "It shows that you should follow the rules because if you don't you can never rest easy.", "I personally am perfectly okay with America not being a shining star. No need to shoot ourselves in the foot for an undeserving world. ", "And if I cared to I could provide proof, or I could ask the IRS to provide proof. But you shouldn't assume I pay my taxes either, if we're dealing with me getting in trouble for a crime which involves me not being on record. No court would require the prosecution to prove that he wasn't paying his taxes. He would have to provide evidence of doing so, especially if because he is undocumented, its likely there isn't evidence for at least some of his taxes. Which is a big part of the problem even if he was paying his taxes.", "This is complete bullshit ", "How do we know that? It seems to be insinuated as opposed to being in the article like I’d hope it would have been. That’s kind of the point of my comment. ", "I'm curious too, this guy looks like an expert! [Laughing at the idea of trans people getting murdered for being trans](https://www.reddit.com/r/CringeAnarchy/comments/7qcc4w/why_dont_i_get_matches_like_this/dsotp56/?context=10000), what a beautiful specimen.\n\nIt's scary just how disgusting people who make these kinds of comments turn out to be if you just check their history. I'm getting more and more sick of it honestly, this whole Trump garbage becomes harder to handle by the day.\n\nI probably need a break from Reddit at least.", "> Some people come here when they are so young they don't even learn that they are undocumented\n\nPeople know if they are undocumented. Because their parents tell them--so they run if the law ever tries to catch them.", "Sad.", "It sounds like you’re arguing that the severity fits the punishment. I guess here we will just disagree. I don’t see this as equivalent to vehicular manslaughter (not saying you’re saying that either, just citing an extreme example). \n\nMaybe this is equivalent to an unregistered vehicle — pay a fine and get your paperwork current and you should be fine. You might be able to make a case that it’s equivalent to a DUI — serious, expensive, and you may lose your job, but your life is likely not ruined and you don’t lose your family. \n\nRegarding a temporary ban, my understanding of the law is that being deported for this reason results in a lifetime ban on legal status. \n\nAlso the wall won’t do anything, since illegal immigration almost exclusively happens by overstaying visas. Most border crossings already have a wall. ", "Is there a way we can help the family at all?", "I wasn't comparing it to any other period in time. If we're going to pretend like ICE isn't specifically targeting people of color that's fine.", "This is terribly sad.", "That's fine, but the catch is if you lie about your reason for visiting, then you entered illegally. Source: someone who is planning on marrying someone foreign. We have to go through a 6-8 month process instead of use a tourist/student visa, because when she visits on the tourist visa, she has to tell them she is here for a visit. If that is a lie, we could still get married, but she'd be at risk of deportation.", "There's still a difference between The_Donald posters and your average Trump voter. They're basically rabid over in T_D.", "He’s grown up and created a life in this country. His childhood memories are in America. His family lives in this country. It’s definitely a punishment to be sent back to a country with poorer quality of life, education, and opportunities without your family. Try telling him to his face that it isn’t.\n\nI’m not saying it shouldn’t be a crime. I’m just saying that it should be possible for him to apply for citizenship without leaving the country for years at a time. In other words, he should be given the option to return the cookie his parents stole and be absolved of guilt, instead of being punished for the fact that his parents stole it.", "This is what we've been fucking asking for 30 god damn years. And now we finally got Trump to fix this shit.", "Then let's give it to everyone, eh?", "Reminds me of this story:\n\n\"Mr. Crapser was adopted along with his sister by an American family that physically abused both children, he told The New York Times Magazine for an article that was published in April 2015.\n\nAfter six years, that family put both children up for adoption again. They were separated, and Mr. Crapser was adopted by new parents, Thomas and Dolly Crapser, who also abused him. They had several other foster and adopted children whom they also treated brutally. In 1992, they were both convicted of criminal mistreatment and assault, and Thomas Crapser was convicted of sexual abuse.\n\nAdam Crapser was kicked out of the Crapser home at 16 and later broke back in to retrieve his personal belongings. He pleaded guilty to burglary and served 25 months in prison.\n\nMore brushes with the law followed. After his release, he was convicted of unlawful possession of a firearm. A couple of misdemeanors followed, and he was later convicted of assault after a fight, The Times magazine reported.\n\n“Because of the chaotic nature of his upbringing, he was not able to document his status,” Lori Walls, his lawyer, said.\n\nMr. Crapser said he did not realize there was a difference between being a permanent resident and a citizen until he was reunited with his sister, a naturalized citizen, in 2012.\n\nDeportation proceedings began that year, shortly after he applied for residency documents and the authorities learned about his criminal record. The final decision was made on Oct. 24 at an immigration court in Tacoma, Ms. Walls said. Mr. Crapser said Monday that he expected to be deported within the next 30 days.\n\nMr. Crapser had never held down a steady job for more than 90 days because he could never prove his legal status, he said, something he always chalked up to a chaotic childhood. “I pretty much had to work under the table for most of my life,” he said.\"\n\nDude straightens his life out, starts a family, and tries to fix his legal status. Deported!\n\nAnd holy shit, who let the dumb racists of Donald out? the comments here are so discouraging for the future of humanity.", "Wait, so since we're still wrong in one area we should stay wrong in others? ", "What do you mean free? Estimates are half pay income taxes and they all pay sales tax. If they rent or own a home they pay property tax one way or another as well.", "I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that this man didn't vote for Trump.", "MLKJ was also pro-gun. \n\nAnd anti-gay-marriage (shouldn't the Left decanonize him?) \n\nAnd judging by his words, would've been opposed to modern affirmative action, quotas, and victim industry identity politics. ", "I said she is Canadian lol. Anyway, yes she's white.", "wife and kids can now apply for public assistance. ...I'm confused", "But they didn’t kick him out the next day. He spent 30 years in Disneyland, cleaning the grounds, making lemonade, operating rides and contributing to the park and THEN Disneyland kicks him out, you bet your ass Disney is the bad guy ", "He very well knew he was illegal. No excuses. \n\ne; he could've applied for citizenship. ", "No dude, if the guy was 10 when he entered the US illegally, was it his choice to come over? \n\nThe entirety of his prepubescent to adult life was here in the US. \n\nYou're not looking at the big picture - people have been here almost their entire lives and have made a life in the US. If your grandmother were brought here illegally from whatever country you may descend from and one day were deported due to them being here without papers, would you not have an issue with this?", "This is what people don’t understand, everyone’s blaming the wrong person, when it was his parents who were to blame ", "For shit like this to happen, there are some terrible humans making decisions.", "I think it was Eric Schmidt from google that said, (when asked why he’d build google offices in Mexico City when the country is so dangerous) \n\n“You wouldn’t decide NOT to travel to New York City because Detroit is so dangerous” \n\nMany Americans fall into this mental trap when thinking about traveling to Mexico. The crime in Mexico is concentrated in a few cities. You take those cities out, and Mexico is safer than the US. Mexico City’s murder rate per 100k inhabitants is 9.6, (half the rate of Washington DC’s)", "Because there are several factors that come into play. You have to meet certain requirements like marrying a US citizen/ or have your US citizen children over 18 apply for you. \n I was brought illegally when i was 11 and just became a resident at 30 when i married a US citizen. It was my only option, thru the years i spent roughly $15,000 in lawyers finding a way for me to become legal and met with dead ends.", "Calling them \"illegals\" prolly doeant help.", "MLK wouldn’t want illegal immigrants in USA so this is fitting! Happy MLK Day!!!", "Do you think hiring 400 illegals is a serious crime?\n\nI'm sure you know it actually is and the guy that hired them got a TWENTY SEVEN year prison sentence.\n\nHis prison sentence was commuted by the president and no it wasn't President Obama it was President Trump. Yea, that president who is Sooooooo tough on illegal immigration.\n\nhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/20/us/president-trump-iowa-commutation.amp.html", "You’re right. Minors should be free from the responsibility of following the law. 👌🏻 ", "He's brown.", "Good, add his name to the list. Slowly but surely, they will be forced out. Illegals have no place in America.", "Coming from your retarded comment, it was apropos. \n\nSorry, that means it was appropriate. \n", "Man, sucks to be him", "Yeah, just like segregation and slavery laws. Doesn't make it a good reason.", "If you are an US citizen then her overstay is forgiven as part of the adjustment of status.", "> Pretty sure Australia has similar issues with immigration detention facilities. The border is by no means open.\n\nCertainly among Western nations, Australia has one of the tightest borders in the world, especially if you come here illegally by boat.\n\nThe TL;DR is that if your boat is determined to be shipping illegal immigrants and is still afloat and seaworthy, it will be towed out of Australian waters and set on a course back to your point of origin, usually Indonesia. If you make it to Australia, or your boat sinks (or is deliberately sunk as sometimes happens), or for any other reason simply \"turning back the boat\" doesn't work, such as you refuse to comply, you will be detained and immediately moved to a hellish off-shore prison in the Pacific where you will be processed, identified, deported back to your home country. From this moment onward you are permanently and irrevocably banned from Australia for life for any reason, including asylum, life-saving surgery, family reunification, etc. You will never set foot in Australia again.\n\nIf you refuse to identify yourself and your nation of origin in the processing place, you will be detained indefinitely in this hellish prison until you do. Regardless of how long that takes. Some people have been there many years.\n\nThis process largely has bipartisan support and although the far left and /r/Australia scream about it, it is not going away for the forseeable future.\n\nAustralia does not fuck around when it comes to boats.", "Assuming that laws don't apply to you until one day, suddenly, they do.", "I don't have any problem with people being here who don't cause trouble or create extra costs. I do think that part of the whole \"american's are too lazy to work those jobs\" is caused by the glut of cheap labor that uncontrolled immigration creates. It's the same reason unions hate scabs - scabs undercut union workers' ability to hold out for higher wages.", "He can’t unless he leaves the country and applies to come back ten years later.", "Many illegal immigrants work under fake or stolen SSNs. So their employers take taxes out when paying them.", "10 year olds really should have better foresight. ", "[Here's](https://www.defense.gov/news/mavni-fact-sheet.pdf) a pdf from the government that suggests otherwise.\n\n> The applicant must be in one of the following categories at time of enlistment\n> \n> a. asylee, refugee, Temporary Protected Status (TPS), or\n> \n> b. nonimmigrant categories E, F, H, I, J, K, L, M, O, P, Q, R, S, T, TC, TD, TN, U, or V\n\n[This](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/all-visa-categories.html) page shows what the different categories are. None of them include illegal immigrants.\n\nSo it certainly seems like you were mistaken as to the nature of MAVNI, unless you have some other government sourced proof that contradicts what I found.\n\n", "Wellllllll, under article II, section 2 of the Constitution, the President could pardon this crime. Believe me, I have no interest in 'picking a side' in this forsaken comment section, but the President absolutely can decide when we do and don't want to enforce a federal law. One glaring example of this is when President Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon in 1974, for any and all crimes he 'may have' committed against the country during his presidency.", "It’s disgusting, really. The dregs of Reddit hating on this man. ", "Which is why everyone is pissed. If the article had said “illegal immigrant given legitimate path to citizenship”, I doubt people would be upset. The problem is that there’s no way for him to be legal without being forced to leave his family. ", "Clarity in ones language isn't cowardice. I honestly have no idea how you got to that conclusion. \n\nAnd no, privileged is being able to sit on Reddit and discuss who's fault it may have been when a 10 year old boy landed in Detroit 30 years ago like it matters one fuck or another. \n\nPrivileged is having no idea what the kind of fear he went through every day not knowing if the life he'd been building would be taken away just like it is now. \n\nPrivileged is not understanding that not everyone has lived the life you've been lucky enough to live. You, nor I know how he lived, whether he made attempts to live lawfully or not, but right now what that family is going through? That's not right. That's fucking shameful. ", "30 years. He had 30 years to become a citizen. How is this not justified by his own incompetence.", "I’ve dated quite a few girls from Brazil and a girl from Colombia. All of them came here legally. Some, worked hard to attain their citizenship, while others chose to go back. The general sentiment shared by all of them is why do illegal immigrants feel they are entitled to live here illegally. If you or I applied for a visa for Brazil, they would be quick to deport you if you overstayed your welcome(8 months). We are a nation of laws people. I do genuinely feel bad for the young kids who were brought here, educated here and may potentially have to go back. I think there needs to be a gray area in this case. That said, there are dozens of adult bartenders here in East Boston who have been here for 2-3 years and still don’t know a lick of English. I know this from experience. They can also be quite rude and dismissive towards American patrons. Case in point, Cancun’s by Maverick Square. I speak conversational Portuguese and can understand some Spanish. The drunken day laborers and staff will say nasty things behind your back. Many of these times they utter inappropriate slang that is derogatory towards homosexuals. ", "I bet he speaks better English than Spanish ", "You’re awesome!", "People are trying to get you to think illegal immigrants are people with feelings! How horrible!!", "Is America great again?", "I should have said that I mostly just filed paperwork and didn't actually do any of the lawyering myself. But yeah.. it's pretty difficult. Sorry I can't offer much other help :/ it sucks that there's not a way for people to do that. I'm sure there's something though. We mostly dealt with people who were applying for full citizenship", "America is for the rich, the only color recognized in the states is green - money. It doesnt matter if your pink, purple, or a mythical creature. If you got money, people will kiss your ass. If Trump was real anout immigration, he would penalize employers who hire illegals so hard they would bankrupt and be jail. But people like cheap labor, someone will want something for nothing. \n\nPeople like Jorge fall in the cracks of politics at play. \n\nAm sure at the end of Trumps reign, he'll have some stats about how he \"got all the mexicans out\" and people who voted for him will be like \"yeah he did something\"\n\nBut he wouldn't have. People will still hire illegals over you, the labor force will thrive off the sweat and labor of those striving for just a taste to be here. And people like Jorge will be in the crossfire. Its just gonna be one messy ride.", "Damn, read the beginning of the title and couldn't believe they told Hugo Reyes to get LOST....\n", "They don't. As you progress up the middle class, the percentage of your earnings increases. Then you hit a certain level of rich where all your income comes through capital gains, and your tax rate plummets. That is not fair. It does not make sense for billionaires to pay a smaller portion of their annual income in taxes than my parents, who are very far from billionaires.", "> use civil disobedience\n\n>You don't just continue breaking the law\n\nI like how you don't even bother hiding that you don't know what you're talking about. You know civil disobedience is literally the act of breaking unjust laws as a form of protest right?", "I'm honored a 4 year old account with only 6 posts made me the subject of their 7th.", "Faux individualism, or ignorance?\n\nThe right wing co-opted the individualist movement. Now they use it as an excuse to dick over minorites.\n\nIt's not a Muslim ban, it's just focusing on Muslim-majority nations.\n\nIt's not limiting voting rights for minorites, its closing DMVs near the registration deadlines in lower-income areas for unrelated reasons.\n\nThe president isn't racist, Norway's one black person might immigrate here. Of course, Trump wouldn't rent to him, but he wouldn't ban him)\n\nSee a pattern?", "Seeeeya", "I feel like there may still be a few more violent gang members who are here illegally that maybe could of gone before this guy was focused on... if at all", "Can he apply for a green card through his wife or his kids after deportation?\n\nAnd how long would that take?\n\n", "Get a life instead of constantly feuding with people on Trump-related posts late night you bell. ", "They still have more to invest, more opportunities for things like the stock market and compound interest, plus all the other \"hey I don't have to worry about anything\" perks of making that much. They don't feel the tax, and they have the leverage to make money off what they DO have.\n\nSo ya, they rightly bear the brunt of the income tax brackets. I'm not losing sleep over them, especially since the income gap is still growing.", "I am sorry even though its sad, but there is a legal way to come to the US. \n", "You can’t apply for citizenship when you’re here illegally. He would have had to leave once he was 18 and then come back years later and completely disrupted his life here", "He's never coming back. He'll have to wait 10 years just to apply, and it will take many years for them to begin processing his application, then a few more to process, then a few more just because.\n\nAnd that's assuming he has the $4k+ in fees it costs to apply as a spouse of a citizen.", "Do you know how applications for citizenship work? If you did, you wouldn't have posted this comment. \n\nHe was 10 when he came here. He can't apply for citizenship until he's 18. So 8 years go by - nearly half his life - and you want him to go back to his parents' home country and reapply to become a US citizen? To be so forward thinking at age 18? Jesus. He likely did consider that option and realize that returning to that country would have been so much worse for him - young, no work experience, etc. And to then spend the next 22 years working, paying taxes (yes, most illegal immigrants still pay taxes)...", "Yes she has voted. It's not uncommon.", "Do you think they'd want to illegally immigrate to the US? Do you expect them to show up in cargo ships any second now?", "His “anchor babies” are as American as you are. They’re citizens because they were born here, which is the same reason you are. ", "Headline should be \"illegal immigrant who had 30 years to get his shit straightened out.\" ", "Countries need borders. Grow up. ", "Sure they would, and if they've been here 10 years and haven't been complete fuckfaces, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to become citizens. ", "Objection relevance.\n\nDid you mean to reply to my comment? I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. Assuming you are not- I have no clue..but unless they paid the house off they would be paying a mortgage payment the ENTIRE time they were waiting to get back in..which from my limited understanding is YEARS. So I suspect they risk not getting deported instead of trying to go through the process of becoming legal. What do you expect when the process takes years? \n\nI don't know anything about the anchor baby stuff...im not sure thats a thing anymore. ", "The argument \"Because it is illegal\" is weak as fuck because half the idiots here trying to kick out immigrants are toking away marijuana or using painkillers outside of prescription. It is called a glass house and you shouldn't throw rocks. \n\nEdit: Literally everyone pays taxes, you cannot be homeless without paying taxes. You buy a beer? Guess what? TAXES! ", "\"SWIM just gave their plants 2g of MDPV will it be ok?... \" ", "He’s a statistic. A statistic that costs the US billions. \n\nHe could be a firefighter who rescued a hundred babies from a burning hospital. He would still have to go back.", "Or it could be because they're, you know...actually wrong?", "But how much wealth do the top 20% of earners account for? I think that was their point. ", "damnnnn sucks his parents broke the law", "Not enough, we have to call the people who don't have an opinion on the matter as \"Heartless fucks\" and we are good to go.", "Sure, this is a problem of the Republicans making and they're choosing to put money into this instead focusing on shit like the opioid crisis but can't we just blame step back and blame both the side that's doing this and the one that isn't?", "I work in the ESL/GED office at a community college in Illinois. We provide free classes, but cannot accept people on active student/tourist/temp work VISAs. We refer hundreds of people each year to non-profits that assist people on active or expired F, J, B, and M VISAs in applying for green cards, so yes it's definitely possible.\n\nOddly enough, we CAN accept undocumented immigrants, but not people who are legal residents on those VISAs. Just goes to show you how broken our immigration laws are.", "Miscreant? His parents brought him when he was 10. It’s so gross to be insulting him over that, ugh. ", "Counterpoint: no they don’t. ", "> A country is more than just an economy. I guess if you want details I can list a few more.\n> -Education\n> -Health\n> -Quality of Life\n> -Security\n> Hypothetically illegal immigration could be a boon for our economy but harm all of the above enough that it is a net loss for the country. It's complicated.\n\nThe economist look at the full impact. Those things you listed are part of the economy that economist look at. I don’t understand how you think a group is a net Positive to the economy and yet be negatives overall on things that are related to the economy\n\n\n\n\n", "These are the kind of posts I think of every time I see a fucking bullshit post on r/MURICA", "He has had 30 years to become legal, I feel no sympathy", "What would you suggest he do about it? We don't offer a path to legal status for people like him (thanks Republicans). His only option would be to leave his home and go try to live in a country he probably barely remembers. I guess that's what he's going to have to do now, so why would he rush?", "Because r/Pics has turned into a r/Politics circle jerk. ", "What exactly is his family supposed to do? Just uproot their entire lives and start from scratch in some far-off, unfamiliar land? Seriously..??", "Go ahead and take a look at OP. That is a bit harsh to ban a man who did nothing wrong but start a family in the wrong part of the planet from seeing his family for 20 years.", "Didn't we at one point grant a refugee exemption specifically for El Salvador?", "Oh the Washington compost is so much better than CNN. I don’t trust any of them. And guess what I don’t get my news from Fox. I’m more of a OANN guy. Even if trump did say shithole countries I don’t see what the fuss is about. I mean people wouldn’t be leaving those countries and coming here if they were great and they were living such a wonderful life. \n\nTrump took the travel ban overboard? No he’s trying to keep your family, my family, and every American citizens family safe. Do you not hear about all the terrorist attacks? Yeah it was originally knocked down for being “unconstitutional” but then was over turned. It isn’t a permanent travel ban. Only until we can enforce a better vetting system. Trump has done more for this economy and Americans than Obama ever did. Go look at all the records he’s breaking. No you won’t find that on Washington compost or CNN. Either way majority of Americans agree with my views and that’s why trump won and will win again ", "His family could move with him for the time being. It would suck but if my husband had to go back to his country I’d go ", "He did actually", "It's racist because we know you just don't want to see Brown people from \"shithole\" countries walking around your town. ", "??? This is illegal immigration. Not just anti immigration. I'm anti illegal immigration like any logical person should be. You're not? ", "Bullshit, my parents immigrated from Iraq in 79, my mother applied for her citizenship 04. George never applied for citizenship and has a criminal record. Boom don’t spread half truths. ", "Aren't you actually admitting they should be more intense? It's lax policy enforcement that allowed him to stay here illegally for 30 years", "> yet he didn't do the responsible thing and go through the proper channels to obey the law.\n\nI'm sure you're aware of what that entails, so please tell me, what would he have had to do?", "Rule of law doesn’t differentiate. Nice propaganda. ", "Which part is crazy? \n \nThat nations have laws to protect the citizens of the nation and it is illegal for non-citizens to just waltz in at the expense of the citizens? \n \nIs that the crazy part? Or is the crazy part where you detailed how you committed a crime? \n \nhttps://www.google.com/search?q=marriage+fraud", "What say did he have? You can't apply for citizenship when you're already here \"illegally\"", "Instead of forcing immigrants out and forcing the country to pay for the wall why doesn't the US just help Mexico become into a first world country, so there wouldn't be so many immigrants? Plus it would lower crime rates a lot in both country's.", "Stay on point or don't post at all", "Leave at 10 years old?", "He's a bigger procrastinator than I was back when I was in college, wow", "She also has a driver's license and has renewed when needed.", "There is no route to legal citizenship after being brought here illegally as a child. Also the Trump administration plans to further cut legal waivers will just serve to further incentivize cutting in line.", "these are the types of illegal immigrants you want in this country. jesus fucking christ. this is morally and ethically wrong. unless he is some violent criminal that we dont know about but fuck dude, we want and need these types of people or else we fucked.", "Well than say that, rather than reference specific value held by conservatives that is irrelevant to illegal immigration. Because it's exactly that value, than anyone can succeed here through hard work, is why we should push for more legal immigration, which decrease situations like this one.\n\nEdit: fixed a thing", "You are telling a man who was brought here ten years hold to go back in time and follow the law?", "Trump supporters sure love to clarify what portions of the population they don't like, though. The problem is with them, too", "The cost of your healthcare is so high because your system is completely fucked. It's not about helping people, it's about lining pockets. ", "So the is gonna sound bad, but, why wasn't he a citizen? I'm assuming it's a legal or law issue. \n\nIMO the path to citizenship should be something we should work with these people for. \n\nBut, (since I don't think we currently provide one) if there is a path to legal citizenship that is viable that people are ignoring so they can benefit from our system, then they should be deported. \n\nBut if they are actively perusing that path to citizenship they should be allowed to stay. \n\nThat seems like a fairly black and white topic to me. If they wanna be citizans and are trying to become one they should get to stay. But how fucked our system is this shit happens.", "The correct answer is \"Fix the law\".", "Counterpoint: no it isn’t. ", "The 10-year bar on re-entry went into effect in 1996. He's 39 now, so would have needed to leave when he was ~17 years old to avoid the 10-year ban.", "As an aside the US isn’t unique in having being built on immigrants.", "So is making exceptions to laws because of who someone is...", "Common law doesn’t count", "I'm fairly liberal, but I'm with you on the last part. I think it's ridiculous that the left would actually support and push for these types of extremely low paying jobs to continue to exist with people from outside the country filling them. I am 100% for going after employers that hire them for slave wages rather than paying an American citizen a fair wage. ", "I tend to agree, but he's 40 years old. At some point it would have come up. It's not like he was 4-5 when he was brought over. He was old enough to know why he didn't have a US passport ", "Adios amigo! ", "So it's a total non-sequitur. Great headline!", "Sucks, follow the law and they wouldn't be in this situation. Easy as that, don't break the law.", "My buddy does payroll in union construction jobs. Here's how it works there...\n\nContractor contacts union hall for x amount of laborers (masons, drywallers, electricians, framers, etc, etc). They must go through the union hall for most large scale jobs.\n\nUnion hall sends the requested labor to the job site. All have docs. Some are obviously illegal but nothing to do about it as he has no resources to prove illegal. Gets risky to target random brown person for suspicious papers, or really the greater risk is the union blackballing a job site behind the scenes (giving the worst laborers, shortages, etc). General contractors can't afford the union messing with them. More on why the union protects the illegal workers in a sec.\n\nIllegal workers fill out their W-4s along with everyone else. They'll check box 7, exempt from taxes. No tax withholding anymore. That's the glaring clue they're illegal and fake docs but, again, he can't do much about it or risk the possiblity of a lawsuit and/or the wrath of the unions. Anyone can claim tax exempt, it's just that a year or two later the IRS will contact you if you weren't actually exempt and face large fines and back taxes. But these guys won't be around by then anyhow, at least by the name they're currently using. Buddy gets annoyed as he has a notably higher hourly wage but his take-home is less than these guys.\n\n6, 8, maybe 10 months later the illegal laborer disappears. Actually he usually sees them again 6 or 12 months later, just with different papers, green cards, SSN's, etc. He says sometimes they wink at him when he sees them and says \"Hey Jorge\" and they reply \"Nah, I'm Mario\". The process repeats.\n\nAs to why the unions are all for this - while these guys are able to bypass tax withholdings by checking a simple box on the W4 everyone fills out at a new job, they can't bypass mandatory withholdings to the union's retirement plan. So the union collects these contributions to retirement that no one will ever collect on. I can only imagine how the union higher ups split those fake retirement account withholdings they collect week after week.\n\nBuddy does say they're pretty bad ass masons and drywallers, though it's getting territorial. If you're an anglo apprentice drywaller you're in for a lot of sabotage to make you look bad.", "Except he was brought to the US by his parents as a kid, so it wasn't really his decision to come there in the first place. I'm not denying the fact that he's an illegal immigrant, but still, you should realize he had no say in whether he wanted to live in the US and now he has to take consequences for something his parents did. ", "I like it here, this other person really won't like it here", "Yup, the law is the law and should never be changed or revised because it was handed to us by the divinely inspired forefathers. It's a good thing we've never ever had to revise any laws ever, that's how perfect they are.\n\nRetard.", "Damn. 30 years living the U.S. illegally. Adios amigo. ", "> She was probably born here\n\nThat would make her a citizen. That's what Republicans cry about when they say anchor babies.", "Drop more buzzwords on me ", "Because this site is 100% a marketing machine. Running at full speed, 24/7. ", "Do you not understand what I said? Most illegal immigrants have no choice but to have fake papers and use them to pay taxes. Unless they are working for shady employers who pay in cash, they literally MUST pay their taxes because they are deducted automatically.\n\n", "The government has to do everything to reverse the crime committed whether it involves people without a say in it or not. His parents and him came as a package deal illegally and they should be sent back as a package deal. ", "Lol nice try!", "He was brought here when he was 10, illegally. He grew up here, and by the time he was an adult, he would have had to leave the US and apply for citizenship from the outside. It could have taken him years to restart his life in the US. \n\nIt's not easy. And it wasn't his choice.", "HEY AMERICA - GO FUCK YOURSELF M8", "it costs money and you have to leave to do an interview in the country that you came from before reentering. You also have to provide proof of paying income tax and meeting a certain minimum income. The guy was either lazy, not paying taxes, poor or a criminal. ", "There is an entire underground of miraculously still here people in the US. Eventually most get deported. There are shittons of Irish illegals no one ever gives a shit about.\n\n", "You didn't answer the question. You said -\n\n> [he] had thirty years to get citizenship\n\nWhat exact steps should he have taken in those 30 years to 'get citizenship.' Please be specific.\n", "Not until we get rid of every Trump supporter ", "The same people who chant “Build A Wall” would’ve absolutely criticized MLK if he was alive today. ", "Yes, but the president can't personally review each case of deportation to make sure it's \"fair.\"", "Unless they're a billionaire who doesn't pay his taxes 'because I'm smart'\n\nOnly some federal laws matter, eh?\n\n", "George Soros is jacking off to these articles ", "https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/02/mexico-city-deportation-work-program-undocumented-immigrants\n\nI found this, but I'm not really sure what kind of help they give or the extent of it.\n\n> In January, Miguel Ángel Mancera – the governor of Mexico City who has presidential aspirations of his own – declared the capital a sanctuary city for migrants deported from the US.\nHis government pledged to help those who stay in the capital find decent jobs and to offer targeted retraining schemes to tackle the city’s skills deficits and job vacancies.", "We tend to no reward criminal behavior in the US. Call it insensitive or greedy or whatever but we have rules for a reason.\n\nThis man broke the law to be here. It's not fair that he would get to stay when there are people doing what they should to get in and he just skipped the line. \n\nNot every person that wants to come to the US can come. There is a limit to just about anything.", "Oof", "Dont forget that el Salvador was included in that list of countries ", "I mean, we could.... /r/redditjustice", "His parents didn't send him anywhere, they brought him with them.", "VERY", "Who says everything has to be easy? Sometimes shit is hard. We aren’t guaranteed some natural right to always have an easy path. ", "How do you not?", "It's very subjective and a lot of it is just saying a bunch of stuff that is an exaggeration. You shouldn't have to lie and say EVERYONE I LOVE WILL DIE IF I'M NOT HERE AND I WILL DIE IF I'M THERE!! but that's almost what you need to prove if you want to have a chance.", "Almost certainly. Most employers can claim ignorance with a fake SS provided and they aren't hard to come by. They pay in more a year than they take out. ", "His parents started rolling the dice for him decades ago and he's been rolling them every day since, the fact that it took decades for him to get caught is irrelevant. \nIf somebody pitches a tent and lives at the back of your property in behind the trees and you don't find out for a long time does it mean he shouldn't be booted for trespassing when you do? ", "because they make more?", "I just see something about greencards. Im probably being ignorant here but I thought marrying an American citizen just automatically made you a citizen.", "Brought a tear to my eye.", "\"I accidently swallowed my blotter and I'm not tripping help\"\n\n>1 hour later, no sign of OP", "Out of educated arguments I see. Good talk", "No, most economists say selective immigration is good. Nobody says illegal immigration is good. Also, you what is actually bad? Some people work their entire lives and save everything they can to become Americans. And some don't. That's bad. That is the only injustice here.", "But if he's married to an American Citizen shouldn't he gain US citizenship instantly? ", "Thank you for saying all of this. I wish the folks who were so anti-undocumented immigrants actually took the time to meet one.\n\nBut - when one’s problem with immigration is not the dignity and rights of those without documents, but ignorance about their worth and intentions - it almost is automatically racist at this point.", "Lol oh so your story was about a highly skilled and highly educated immigrant from a highly developed country.\n\n\nCool story! ", "If i inject heroin into you against your will for a month straight and you then get a heroin addiction because of my actions should you be punished for it?", "If you believe that anyone doesn't deserve the right to vote, then you're in the wrong country.", "I would assume they move someplace else together. Would be pretty shitty if they just let him on his own for the next ten years. Plenty of other places with reasonable immigration policies and a good standard of living.", "agreed...only a portion actually put them on payroll (see below for statistics about how man of the 12 million actually pay taxes) ", "Right? It's not easy to immigrate to any country. I wouldn't be allowed to become a citizen of Mexico with their current immigration laws. The US is the only country that automatically gives you citizenship just for being born here. And people want to act like the laws here are soooo unfair.", "Well he did come here ILLEGALLY soooo", "I'm very sorry, I don't have a source as it would have to be covered by a media outlet. If I ever get one I will try to post. But I did post two articles below that show that ICE are, at least in some places, actively searching for undocumented immigrants. It might be more that no one is \"searching,\" but if they come across someone here undocumented, they are now taking steps to deport when in the past they weren't. ", "40 year olds really should have some better hindsight. If he was being deported as a 10 year old, I would feel differently ", "If you want to see a bunch of dicks, got the either the Detroit Free Press website or FB post on this article. ", "It's entirely punitive and has nothing to do with a backlog of applicants.\n\nWhile it's true that permanent residency applications often seem like a lottery system, it's disingenuous to assert that someone applying will necessarily further clog the pipes, so to speak, for all other applicants. \n\nThe reality is that the [US maintains quotas for immigration per country of origin](https://www.uscis.gov/tools/glossary/country-limit). In this way, applicants from more populous countries (like China or India) face much stiffer competition to \"winning\" the immigration \"lottery\" than do applicants from countries with relatively low levels of applicants -- say, Norway, for example. Fewer Norwegians applying for legal immigration means that most if not all Norwegians who apply will likely \"win\" their not-such-a-lottery-when-looked-at-in-this-context. \n\nNot to mention that applicants from some countries will be likely to face more thorough \"vetting\" than others.", "The law is the law even when it's stupid and wrong. ", "In this case, yes. ", "Sorry, I feel no sadness for him or his family. He put them in this position. Allowing certain people an exception just leads to a broken system where everyone abuses it. \n\nI've lived in several countries and managed to follow all the laws in place in regards to immigration. So I feel no pitty when others don't and are removed. ", "> That is racist because you're assuming that black and hispanic people are too stupid to figure out how to get an ID or know basic things like where the DMV is.\n\nI never said anything about assessing the relative intelligence of people on the basis of racial classifications. I never said that accessing or acquiring an ID was a matter of being capable enough to understand or follow instructions.\n\nThis is about finding the time to get to the DMV, about having the spare money around to pay for the ID fees. It is about having been born in a county or part of the county where records were well kept and maintained.\n\nIt affects the impoverished, the elderly, the disabled, and students, each of whom have specific structurally difficulties involved in planning their lives around acquiring the one specific form of ID the state requires so they can vote.\n\nIt just so happens that this also has a disparate impact on people who are of certain races. And this is by the design of those who wrote those laws.\n\nAgain, none of these issues outright ban voting of people from these groups, it is simply something to tilt the scales on the margins. For purposes of preventing the big lie of voter fraud, which study after study has no real impact on elections; That's the lie that makes it palatable, but the designed result is disenfranchisement.", "Yes, it does. The crime in question was committed as juvenile and without his consent. ", "The original statement was what the parents were doing for the kid remember? As for him, there is no evidence that he took financial advantage of a country, he was working and paying taxes for programs that he himself could never take advantage of. ", "This means he has had 30 years to correct the problem, 20 of which as an adult. Own up to it. ", "They are people with feelings, things are way more nuanced than what you're talking about.", "I think we're in agreement that laws were technically broken. I just feel that the laws need to be reformed because in this situation, it's a net-loss all around for everyone. The U.S. gets less tax revenue, a family is torn apart and his children will grow up without a father which increases the chance they will have to resort to breaking more laws to keep from starving, etc. ", "They had full control under Clinton and Obama so yeah this could been addressed at some point. ", "Or ya know... go get your citizenship and stop being an illegal immigrant. It’s his fault for not doing it for 30 years. That’s the risk you take. ", "Serious question, why don't more illegal immigrants from Mexico apply for citizenship? Are there some hidden benefits to remaining Mexican?", "What are you even on about. NO ONE is saying we shouldn't keep people from flooding into the country - this is about a scenario in which common sense should be applied. The dude was brought here as a child - he had no say in the matter and we are kicking him out and destroying his family so we can adhere to laws that were poorly thought-out. Clearly making him leave is WRONG. That has NOTHING to do with the position that we need to curtail illegal immigration.", "And, again, the irony in stating that me commenting is caring. ", "He was excusing the parent not the child. Being deported isn't some nasty punishment meant to hurt and inflict pain on illegal immigrants. It is simply restoring the status quo they illegally changed.", "Our immigration laws are the reason the US doesn't have the same population problems as China. If everyone came here illegally then it would be chaos. A man isn't entitled to steal bread just because he's starving. Same concept here. If he followed the law then he could have been naturalized over 20 years ago and wouldn't be having this problem. ", "Well, he's leaving regardless. May as well get it started so he can get back and try to rebuild his life. What BS that they're kicking an upstanding person out like that. ", "What a punch in the gut. Hopefully, his kids can visit in Mexico often.", "You could make that argument about literally any law... Where would you draw the line?", "It sucks to be forcibly removed from your home, no matter where you're being sent off to.", "You have a normal job with a fake social security number and then claim 5-10 dependants and so no withholdings get taken out and then promptly never file taxes.", "Ahh, I see we've struck one of the fundamental cords dividing conservative & liberal beliefs. ", "Don't bother, anyone with a brain. Right wing bigoted xenophobic assholes have taken over this post. \n\nI don't understand how people have the energy to be so hateful. \n\nOnce you see everything is all and all is one you'll understand. \n\nThe hate is bad for ya. ", "What's the cutoff point then? 15 years? 5 years? 1 year? 6 months? Whatever date we set is going to lead to some nice guy getting deported and hundreds of aliens sneaking in and lying low until they unlock amnesty. It's not a pleasant situation, but the more strongly we enforce our laws, the less this situation will even come about.", "He’s a taxpayer. \n\nWhat makes people think non-citizens don’t pay taxes?", "Yes, you can adjust if you get married after overstaying a visa. The past is forgiven when you do that. ", "The boat was built a couple hundred years ago. Perhaps you shouldn't worry about polishing the brass on the Titanic?", "Glad you added the metaphorical part considering the environmental impact it'd have ", "Then you became illegal when you overstayed. ", "Maybe we disagree, but I don't think paper is what makes someone my countryman. ", "If someone embezzles money and gets thrown in jail the kids of that person suffer. The family who had nothing to do with the embezzlement suffer. It's not fair to punish people who had nothing to do with a particular act, but when you are a parent your actions 100% affect your kids. If you start throwing laws out the window because of unintended consequences and \"feel bad situations\" you go down a very slippery slope. ", "So...for thirty years, he did nothing to change his immigration status?", "If there are 100 flooded houses and somehow mine is the only one not flooded, and there are people being accepted every single day to get food and shelter in my house by knocking on the door and waiting for me to answer, you think it’s shitty of me because you go around the back and break in, and take someone else’s food and shelter that they were waiting for?\n\n\nYou’re acting like the United States bans all immigrants instead of acknowledging we take in more immigrants than any country on earth. ", "[Why are you the way that you are?](https://m.popkey.co/906ab9/861OJ_s-200x150.gif)", "What risks are you aware of as a 10 year old boy? He trusted his parents to watch for him. By the time he could understand and reason what was happening he likely didn’t comprehend that he was illegal. I think “idiot” is harsh. Maybe naïve. ", "And that's a bigger problem than this guy getting deported.", "Ok, so you support making it real easy for these immigrants to come here legally, right? If their positives to the economy and you care about their well being, then make it much easier for them to come here", ">This nation used to be a shining star. Now it's becoming a symbol of indecency.\n\nYou realize that the Obama administration set records for their deportation numbers right? ", "Interesting. They really need to make this shit easier to find. It's a pita to do it yourself but MUCH cheaper. ", "No its really not.", "So you'd risk never seeing your wife and children again on the off chance you'll be allowed to immigrate legally? Really? You'd willingly risk ruining your entire life just to comply with a law you broke when you were too young to even understand it?\n\nChrist it's like you people grew up in a bubble completely shielded from other humans and completely oblivious to how human nature works. If you think for a second you would have done differently in his position you're the most laughably full of shit person I've ever encountered.", "Wow alt right trolls are out in full force today..don't even have to sort by controversial today..", "I believe the person who is trying to adjust their status must pay a penalty and self deport to their country of origin until their application is approved. \n\nI might be somewhat wrong on this though ", "Yeah they also don’t have to worry about their kids being hungry, or being deported, or being homeless. They aren’t an oppressed class at all.", "I would like to think the commenter you've quoted is saying something to the effect of \"we simply should not allow these things to continue happening.\"\n\nI could be wrong, but that's what my perception tells me.", "Never said they were. WTF is your point?", "Why would it? It’s an article with the narrative that the big bad USA is kicking out some family man. Doesn’t make any sense they’d say in some footnote, btw he’s draining the system while thousands of legal immigrant are coming in behind him.", "https://i.imgur.com/Y6Llk5f.png\n\nHe was married correct? Is his spouse a legal citizen?", "She's as shocked as anyone else is about it. I guess her mom thought that when she brought her here, as long as her mother became a citizen she would as well.", "I don't know what planet you live on, but it sounds crazy.", "I wouldn't know exactly but after thirty years surely id be interested and have some time to find out. ", "He never said you did. Calm down, snowflake. All they were saying is that although there were legal means 30 years ago, the child shouldn't be punished for the parents not fulfilling their obligations.", "I mean my first point is 100% true.\n\nMy second point, I'm a pro-open borders and universal free trade guy so you're probably not gonna agree with me there, but I stand by my positions.", "He murdered someone?", "Oh I understood. I was just saying I hadn't heard that before :-). ", "There is a path. This guy had thirty years and didn't take it.\n", "I wonder if the US is going to refund all the taxes he paid while he was here.", "Good, one less illegal immigrant.", "Dude... this guy pays taxes and has a family. We’re not talking about some gang-banger here. What “strain” does keeping this guy create? If anything, this person is more productive than many Americans that were born here. ", "Sad story. The expense and inefficient process doesn’t make the act any less illegal, though. He knowingly put himself and his family in this situation. ", "I feel sad for people like you. I’d hate to live my life being such an ignorant hateful person. Worse still, you’re proud of it. You think you’ve made a good point and you don’t understand why you’re a piece of shit human being. \n\n\nSee? That response works great against you too. It also provides the same amount of statistics, logic and reasoning, which is to say zero.", "How exactly are you supposed to follow the law as a 10-year-old?", "It was the US when he was 10. I'm pretty sure you understand I'm talking about wherever he was born and grew up before then. This may be his home, but laws are laws, and he's had 22 years to correct his parents mistake. He took a gamble and lost. ", "Being illegal is being American to you?", "I want to give him another hug. Then get mad at the government for the 99999th time. ", "Honestly his best plan is just to sneak back in. Hopefully they dont catch him for another 30 years. ", "Except come to America legally.", "I would bet that in most instances the public wouldn't care. I could be wrong though - I just think that policies will be start flipping in the future. ", "An appeal to emotion.", "Totally the government's fault. There's no way this man could have realized that he wasn't following immigration law at any time in the last 30 years and do anything at all to remedy the situation instead of taking the much easier option of ignoring the problem and hoping that it went away. /s", "Its estimated that about half of illegal immigrants pay taxes & that estimate ranged from about 12-17 billion.\n\nIt's important to remember that there are a lot of taxes that you simply cannot avoid. You can't avoid sales taxes, you can't avoid property taxes, and unless your employer is breaking federal tax law, you can't avoid having income FICA and Medicare taxes withheld. And as much as people like to think that employers are breaking the law like this, the reality is is that the IRS loves to do nothing more than take the giant dick of federal law enforcement and use it to bludgeon employers who don't do withholding.\n\nThat pretty much leaves you with contractors who can avoid paying your taxes.\n\nAnd here's another thing to keep in mind: not paying your taxes as a contractor is a problem that affects citizens and illegal immigrants equally.", "You can only get that shit so shiny, when you're polishing turds.", "Did you miss the part where he came to this country as a 10 year old child? ", "Weird how Leftists love taxes so much, except when it comes to illegals dodging them. \n\nThey know votes for Democrats are the #1 priority now", "It's not the US. Citizenship isn't granted simply because you move here. I'm all for amnesty and such, but immigration law that loose will only spell disaster, because the country is not ready to accept so much immigrants. \n\nAnd border/citizenship/immigration laws have always been a grey area, because that involves multiple nations. \n\nNow, if you wanted immigration laws that lax, set up proper municipalities for the immigrants. Immigrant-specific places, with factories for easy jobs, proper public education, administration and assistance.\n\nBasically populate areas with low populations.\n\nYou can see why that system will have immense resistance to it, from either side.", "Wait even a tourist visa? You can't come on a student visa, leave them come back 5 years later as a tourist?", "\"Simply\"\n\nI'd love for you to experience exactly what this father has to, and then still call it simple.", "Assuming that his wife, or at least his children (which is likely, given US ius solis) are citizens, German immigration law would basically automagically give him immigration rights. Protection of family is a constitutionally enshrined right. I looked up the laws; if the (non-phony) spouse is a citizen, even absent ius solis, German law would almost always grant permanent residency (and a fast track towards citizenship). If the spouse is not a citizen, but has legal residency, stuff is more complicated, but Art 6 GG still mandates swift familiy reunion in Germany. No 10 year bans.\n\nI guess many other developed countries would follow similar patterns. \n\nI don't recall exact results, but I probed many western immigration protocols a while ago for shits and giggles - the US was't particularly hard. I'll stick with my passport though.", "The idea that parents should keep their kids in third world conditions or they're dicks. ", "How much of the illegal immigrant workforce does the richest 1% employ both on and off the books?", "Don't forget our geopolitical adversary, the one who has their operative in the white house, busily deconstructing our government, while conspiring to give them largesse.\n\nDid you know the numbers of [Russians coming to the US to have so-called \"anchor babies\"](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/11/russians-paying-big-money-to-have-their-babies-born-in-us.html) is up? Wonder why...", "Because they control 90% of the nations wealth.", "I know. Isn’t he heartless? I mean knowing he was illegal then building a family KNOWING the whole time he was putting his family in jeopardy - I mean what kind of father does that. ", "So be specific. How exactly would you write the law? Anyone under the age of 10 gets to be a citizen? Without suggesting a tangible solutions, all you're doing is being mad that there are laws. ", "There is a difference between entered with inspection (visa over stays), and no inspection (hoped the border). If you entered with inspection you can adjust status inside of the country, if you haven’t you need advanced parole to leave and come back or else you face a 10 year ban.", "He could have left the country after turning 18. He was here for 30 years. More than enough time to get this done. As for the economic means and housing, those are his problems. Not ours.", "I must admit I find it hard to feel empathy for people being screwed over by the political system when they never actually bothered to vote.", "Even better! He was illegal all along! So what argument do you have? \n\nOh, the old Marxist talking point. Typical on Reddit. Only the poor have to obey the law and the Bourgeoisie are immune from the law.\n\nYea, tell that to Bernie Madoff and the dozens of millionaires and billionaires that have spent time in prison. Matter of fact look at that congresswoman from Florida who just got five years in prison for fraud.\n\nSo save that BS for your liberal arts class.", "That isn't a good argument. It isn't always wrong to break the law. For example, helping slaves escape plantations wasn't wrong. Frankly I don't buy the whole \"you broke the law and therefore were wrong\" line of thinking. Lot's of good people have broken bad laws throughout history, and these laws are bad ones.", "Was your aunt pulled from her home country at 10 years old brought to America and then had to go back and immigrate when she was old enough to support herself in the meantime?\n\nThis mans situation is not the same as most people who attempt to immigrate under \"normal\" circumstances.\n\nIt's much more difficult for someone who was raised in America to be forced back to Mexico, a country they are unfamiliar with, where they know nobody and have little to no in country support. ", "Has he had a job in 30 years he's been here? Because unless he was paid in cash for everything and didn't file taxes, HE WAS USING A FAKE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER\n\n99% of the people here illegally are guilty of identity theft. That's no joke. \n\nYes, on a human level, I have empathy for him and his family. But this is a country of laws, not feels.", "The law is there to protect the people and their freedom. What benefit does society or anyone have from an antiquated law that allows such situations to happen?", "They can pay more without making any serious sacrifices so they absolutely should have to. ", "Immigration has nothing to do with what MLK did or said. ", "Nearly all Americans came by that \"same boat.\" We seem to have forgotten that.\n\nSo you're right on so many levels.", "Sort of true but also it greatly depends. \n\nIf you sell an investment within a year you pay normal income tax. After that it’s 15% but if you are collecting dividends this is taxed as income at your normal rate. \n\nSo it all depends on how that person is collecting their money. ", "You sure deciphered a lot from a picture.", "They look at ALL aspects of the economy. Not just the top 1%", "Also a country with laws. If this were in another country no one would upvote it.", "He isn't receiving cruel and unusual punishment. It is simply a reset of an illegal action undertaken. Its like calling having all your money confiscated as proceeds of crime is awful punishment when your parents were drug lords.", "He didn't have a family since age 10\n\nYou honestly think at no point before starting a family he didn't know and understand he was here illegally?", "[It's civil, not criminal.](http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/24/politics/undocumented-immigrants-not-necessarily-criminal/index.html) You can call it \"illegal immigration\" all you want, and cry about how the thought police are making you be PC, but the broader term \"undocumented\" is better to include any person who enters and is here without following the proper procedures.", "Law enforcement doesn't get the day off. ", "> citizen\n\n:\|", "Copy+paste...\n\n>His parents brought him here hoping that he could achieve what they couldn't. They brought him here because they believed he could be given an education so he could provide for his family one day, and not have them suffer or want like they did when they were growing up.\n\n>His parents are not to blame. He is not to blame. They just believed this country was as free as it claimed to be.", "They were likely taking him out of an even worse situation.\n\nVictim blaming, much?", "It’s a slippery situation. The reality is we live in a world with independent countries that each have their own rules and regulations about who can enter and stay in their country.\n\nEven a place like Mexico has immigration laws. \n\nI guess my challenge to you is, is there a country I can just go move to without having to apply for permanent residence? I mean the USA is great and all, but is there any other country I can just get up and go to and legally live indefinitely, potentially as a citizen?", "Except he's lived here since he was 10. He has a life here. Being here wasn't his choice, he just made the best of it.\n\nWait, you're the idiot from before, aren't you? ", "It is. Sadly, that's more than can be said about you.", "Damn it’s so easy to expose the left’s racism. Thanks for outing yourself as a racist.", "I have had 2 family members do this. Does it suck having to be away from your family yes it does. Can things go wrong and your never allowed to come back yes that can happen I have seen. People take the steps it's hard but 3 years in Mexico or where ever should be worth staying in the the USA. ", "Why on earth is it the US's responsibility to improve Mexico from being a shithole?", "Did he have a SSN and pay taxes on the wages for all that hard work? I just skimmed the article. ", "I'm almost certain I'm friends with more immigrants than people you know. Immigrants, especially in modern times, are not exclusively low class, but you're strawman of my argument seems to think that. What I'm going to point out here is painfully obvious to anyone who knows jack shit about history.\n\nIn the United States, immigrants have always been the poorest people. They come to the US with nothing, and usually end up working menial physical labor for exploitative wages. This was present in the 1800s when they would work in factories under horrible conditions, and it's present now when they work in agriculture under horrible conditions. I don't think any less of them, but it's a matter of fact that immigrants tend to be lower class. Lower class here means they are poorer, not that I think less of them, you absolute tard. \n\nObviously there are some exceptions with tech workers on H1-B visas, but they are still being paid under market rate for their work (which is why they're brought in in the first place), which, even while they're being paid 80k+, that's significantly under average income where they work. \n\nSince you're apparently too stupid to synthesize my point, I'm going to lay out the entirety of my argument. \n\n\n- Waves of immigrants come to the US and work in exploitive situations\n\n- this results in them being poor/lower class\n\n- this does not mean I think less of them as people\n\n- this does however offend my morality as they are still being exploited", "What stopped any republicans from working with the majority of democrats who wanted reform? ", "Trust me. They'd rather cough up the cash than be afraid to go to their daughter's graduation because if caught driving, they would quickly find themselves in ICE's grasp. Money or intent on getting status isn't the problem, the pathways available are and there aren't many, seriously. His kids were the choice but they are below 21 years of age. He might be able to petition a reentry and then begin a family based petition when a child turns 21.", "Thanks Judge Dredd. That circular logic is killer though. It matters that it is illegal because it is illegal. What a joke.", "The 1% pays, on average, 2.7x the taxes of the the bottom 80%. However, they make on average $1.2 million per year in household income, compared to $51,000 per year for the bottom 80%.\n\nI'd like to make 24x the income but pay 2.7x the taxes. You think this is fair distribution of taxation? LOL", "Source for that second point please", "I want to be separated, too. Republicans are human shit", "Lol no, if you have lived in the US for 10 years and haven't gotten in legal trouble you can apply for a green card. Which is the first step to becoming a legal citizen. Cancellation of removal, the people downvotting me should look it up.", "Do you have no empathy? He came to America as a child and made a life for himself. Now his family will likely have to rely on government assistance to make ends meet. This whole shitshow costs more than it’s worth.", "you don't realize why you need sympathy for someone who was brought here at the age of ten who ended up getting married and starting a family now not being able to see their family for 20 years?", "Gee whiz. You solved his 30 year dilemma!", "I think you can get a refund with an itin, but don't quote me on that I'm not in a place where I can look it up to make sure", "Way to deflect. If trump never/illegally filed federal taxes I believe he should be investigated and prosecuted. ", "Are you also aware that no humans originated in the Americas? It wasn’t populated with humans until roughly 10000 years ago. So all humans could be labeled invaders regardless of ethnicity ", "A country he most likely has never even visited.", "You're right, no human is a dog. Nice job at pre-k today!!", "Well, guess what, there is a large market of individuals out there without ID who would pay you money for that room you have open.\n\nIf you can't find anyone else, would you still turn them away?", "Liberals used to understand what it meant to have the honor of being American. They cheered when Bill Clinton sent the freaking army to kick out a guy in the exact same situation as THIS post talks about.", "What if you went to Japan as a 5 or 10 year old with your parents, and didn't really learn you were undocumented, or what that really meant until you'd lived there for many years?\n\nDACA isn't about giving everybody access, it's about giving people who came here many years ago as children and don't really know another country. \n\nIf you have a family here, and want to become legal, you have to leave the country to apply which may mean living apart from them for 10 years whilst you try to regain entrance legally. ", "Dont let the door hit you on the way out", "For a second there, I was worried that Hurley from Lost was deported. \nThat's a relief! ", "Im not trying to be an asshole, and am genuinely open to explainations, but does that mean this man had every day of 20 years to become legal, but instead decided every day not to, and therefore voluntarily abandoned his family? Because...the law is the law and he knew that for 30 years.\n\nEDIT: I now understand that it is was not possible for this man to become a citizen since he entered the US illegally as a child. Thank you to the people that explained nicely and allowed for me to feel much more compassion and sympathy for those going through this.", "Actually you're obfuscating the fact most top earners pay around a 10% personal income tax rate while many middle class Americans pay more than 20%. It's a progressive tax system and yet it isn't progressive. It's a bell curve where those in the upper middle class pay the most.", "Hey look, a republican redneck cheering another one on!", "Oh mighty genius, please, by all means, tell me how you would fix the problem. I'm sure everyone else is waiting with bated breath!", "Racist ", "Yes, I hear myself. You however, seem to be advocating for selectively obeying laws based on your every whim and feeling, which is honestly just about the most ridiculous and immature thing I’ve seen on Reddit today. \n\nChanging laws occurs in courts, not when you feel something is unjust. ", "He was 10 years old ", "They don’t? Fuck, now that’s a head scratcher considering my parents and all my extended family members pay their taxes every year. Now I’m wondering who that lady is that calls herself an accountant they go to every year.", "Cool, I'll have my relatives tell the IRS \"yeah, we were totally paying taxes, no need to check\"", "Fuck this administration ", "You may be right that it was a logical choice for them, but that just means that they accepted the risk of what's happening to them now, and nobody else deserves the blame.", "Obviously it doesn’t he’s being deported. ", "I can guarantee you it was more arduous, difficult and stressful than anything you've ever faced in your entire life.", "Fuck the Confederacy of Chuds. ", "What i don't fucking understand is how a 10year old has to pay for his father's sins 20 years later after he has co tinuted to society. Wtf is wrong with THIS SHITHOLE country?", "I posted above. I do not think they are \"being rounded up off the streets en masse.\" But undocumented citizens are being deported with no priors. I'm sure it's very different in different places depending on the local government and other factors that would affect the priority of this issue.", "It's also important to point out that illegals can and do apply for ITIN #s to pay income tax", "Deportation isn't just being kicked out of the country. If you're deported it means you're barred from returning for a set of years typically ranging from 5-30 but sometimes even life", "He had time to make 2 kids. Just didn’t want to do “all that boring paperwork” ", "He's illegal. It's sad and unfortunate but laws are laws. ", "And don't even bring up Australia's illegal immigration policy. If he had come to Oz by boat, he would have been shipped off to a hellish foreign prison until he identified himself and his country of origin, then been deported and banned for life from Australia for any reason.\n\nThe US has some of the laxest immigration laws in the Western world.", "Yeah, he’s permanently barred. Means he has to wait 10 Years to start. The process itself takes really long too. This guy is seeing more than 10 Years to come back.", "\"He had 30 years to throw his life into complete chaos and risk never being allowed back into the country he'd called home since childhood\". \n\nLike any of the people here bitching about him \"not going about it the right way\" would give up their entire lives like that. ", "> he is effectively already a US citizen except for a piece of paper that says so. \n\nWhich is the only thing that matters when it comes to citizenship. Citizenship laws are not based on morality or feelings, or how long you work. They are based on nothing more than a piece (or more) of paper. And that is all that matters. ", "On MLK day, ICE deports Jorge Garcia, a man who illegally entered the country.", "\"Illegal alien gets deported\"", "Didn't know that! So I've learned that and the fact that it's MLK day thanks to these posts...very helpful!", "Lol", "Avoid all issues by coming legally the first time. Truth hurts.", "I typically agree with matters of setting precedent. However with things like this that affect someone’s entire life there needs to be a review/appeal process available to everyone. This man’s specific situation (not allowed to apply for gc) is the only thing that prevented him from handling this above-board. That’s our system’s failing, not his. Since it is such an obvious crack in the system, I would say that justifies an exception followed by an immediate update of the relevant law. Shame it doesnt work that way.", "Thats why your mother in law was eligible to apply, because her children are citizens. She wouldn’t be eligible to apply if she was here on a visitors visa or other temporary visas if her children weren’t citizens. \n\nYour wife prolly got hers because her parents were citizens. \n\nReally, the only way to immigrate to the US is:\n\n1.\tHave parents or children that are citizens \n2.\tget married to a us citizen/Gc Holder\n3.\thave a company that sponsors you (in this case, they basically own you) \n\nIf you don’t qualify for any of those 3, it’s near impossible. Even if you were here for 30 years with say a student visa and lived here all your life. ", "Uh huh, I guess not supporting illegal immigration = racist. Keep using that word since it just dilutes the real meaning. \n\n", "If the parents sneak their families in to Disneyland without paying then get caught...is it really Disney’s fault that the kids don’t get to stay? DACA explained!\n\nThose kids and his family can go live with him in his country if they want!!!", "Technically it is illegal alien, since an immigrant by definition is someone who came through our immigration system. ", "If you are born here that makes you a citizen by birthright. And yeah the fees are up there and lawyers even more expensive. ", "If my parents snuck me into a theatre without paying I'd still get kicked out.", "We have immigration quota. and we can only take about ~75k Mexicans each year.\n\nThere are like, 12 million illegally in the country. If we tried to let the illegal ones here apply, no Mexican who followed our immigration law would have a chance to come to the country for like thirty years.\n\nWe need to amend INA sure, it's a mess. But they also need to quit coming into our country illegally. It's not a one way street.", "Don’t forget the lock out periods where you violate your visa and you can’t enter the country for 10 or so years!", "Happens all the time, even to those born in the U.S. I knew a guy who spent months mentoring and helping a young man get the right paperwork for a govt ID. Birth certificate was missing, aged out of the school system so no school ID, lived at home so no bills with his name and contact info, never worked (but needed the ID for a job), never drove. His parents were poor, undereducated, and didn’t know better. There are Americans with those issue.", "the world doesn't hate us... immigration is tough in every country. illegal immigration even tougher. but this guy clearly wasn't at fault and didn't deserve to be deported. could have have tried to become legal before now? sure. why didn't he? who knows. ", "This makes me ashamed to be an American", "yeah yeah yeah", "Oh sure, because my comment was vulgar. ", "Shhh your ignorance is showing shhhhhhh", "Can't do that when you're already here illegally, genius. ", "Nah, most countries are more aggressive with their immigration enforcement it is just that most people want to come here not to other countries.\n\nThe crime was being here illegally.", "Sure, if they want to identify to their employer their status, but just the same.", "Only in America. What a shithole. ", "I'm about to sort by controversial lads - I'll see you on the other side!", "He’s probably barred from re-entry for 10 years. After that maybe, depending on the laws. Trump is trying to direct immigration away from approval based on family ties.", "Racist ", "The law is blind.\n\nThat being said, this is cold. Is there nothing that could have been done? ", "Your mom was 10 when she was brought here illegally? What did she do to get citizenship after that?", "Why would you assume he stole someone's ss card? Stealing a social security card and messing up someone's life is clearly wrong and punishable by law but there's no reason to suspect that's what this man did. My response was reasonable rationalizations why he wouldn't have become a citizen for so long. To be honest, if someone has been here for over 10 years and hasn't been convicted of any violent crimes, then I don't care if they stay. They have nothing to go back to at that point. That man's whole life is in the US.", "same point as having a door or fence around your property", "Seems like a boon for the countries gaining a potentially wealthy/educated/hardworking citizen, especially so if they can convince them to stay or provide opportunities for the family to migrate over in a easy manner. ", "Legal immigrants are also net positives. So what’s your next argument?", "Legality does not imply morality. Just because something is legal doesnt make it right.", "Information could be technically \"accurate\" while not painting the true picture. \n\nFor example, it may be \"accurate\" that the Richest 1% pay 40% of all federal income taxes...but if you conveniently leave out that the refund they get after paying said taxes makes the amount they pay actually 6% it makes a difference.\n\nedit: by no means am I saying these are the official numbers and calculations. I was giving an example of how \"accurate\" doesn't always mean \"complete\"", "If you read all the stuff up top, you can see how hard it is to “follow the law” and it’s really expensive. He came when he was ten so....really couldn’t follow the law when he first came in. I’m all for enforcing borders and immigration policies but it needs to become easier and less expensive for these people. ", "It is, but as long as you don't fuck up the interviews and admit that was your intent it's basically impossible to prove. They will make the process as miserable as possible if they suspect it, though.", "Furthermore, we should revoke the citizenship of those who don't contribute! \n\nI'm tired of paying taxes that pay for these damn non-contributing freeloaders!\n\nContribute now or GTFO!\n/s", "This country is pathetic. We preach that change has happened but it hasn't and it probably never will. ", ">I'm not a democrat anymore is because they called me racist \n\nSo somebody called you a bad name and you're going to take your frustration out by joining their opposing political ideology? \n\nNo foreign policy, no economic policy, no social policy swayed you.\n\nJust someone calling you a nazi? That's all it took? That makes you look even worse. You're letting people's words get to you.", "Yeah, which would've been really shitty, he was put between a rock and a hard place. Either do it voluntarily or stay and hope you never get caught. I get why he stayed, but I'd also have to imagine that it would've been faster to bite the bullet and go through the normal process rather than have to wait 10 years because he was found out. ", "They DO pay income tax. You don't need to file to pay. They have those same deductions from your paycheck that everyone else has. ", "His feelings duh ", "Yes it is", "https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/\n\nhappy to educate you.", "Don't most countries deport people who illegally overstayed on a visa etc.? Sucks for the guy, really it does. But there's proper protocol to follow and although it's difficult, and mostly it's his parents fault he is still not a legal resident and must apply now through the proper channels. In a sensible world authorities would take into account his situation and fast track him, but there's a lot of people in the system and the average worker within immigration has their hands tied. Maybe he'll get lucky. ", "He plenty of time to get documented. His own fault. He was lazy and tried to cheat the system. ", ">Enforcement of immigration laws has nothing to do with race.\n\nMust be why we deport so many Canadians and Europeans then. ", "Fuck. This. Shit. ", "Except he came at 10 years old and never had a choice, I think that makes a big difference. ", "You're the one making those comments a race issue. A shithole will be a shithole no matter the race of people living there. If you think the Haiti vs. Norway comparison is based on race, then you're seriously ignoring many factors including government stability, economy, quality of life, and GDP", "Yeah, illegal immigration is wrong. Are you really in support of it?", "Oh sorry. I forgot how much of a shithole El Salvador is.", "Why is america like this", "You say that FAIR is not unbiased and then you link politifact? \n\n[Yeah, ok.](http://replygif.net/i/166.gif)\n\nWhat's interesting is that the biggest problem that politifact has with the information (aside from they don't like the results) is that the evaluation relied on assumptions. They rate it \"mostly false\" because Trump's comment made it sound like a specific figure rather than the estimate that the study claims. \n\nWhether it's 118 billion like that study lists or the 88 billion that a different study presented, it's still showing that illegal immigration comes at a net cost.\n\nEven politifact's own statements add to this. (From the politifact article you linked.)\n\n\"Estimating the costs of illegal immigration is extremely difficult and produces dramatically different figures, depending on the source. Yes, there are costs.\"", "I just hope enough people have the self awareness and honesty to read some of this shit and think \"wait, maybe we're the bad guys.\"", "There is no legal pathway to citizenship for poor people \n\nThat's what the whole immigration debate has been about ", "My point is that your implication that your ancestors were somehow morally superior (or something) because they came here “legally\" is specious, at best. ", "Should he?", "When 1% of people pay for 40% of something, they are...\n\nA. Paying their fair share\n\nB. Paying more than their fair share\n\nC. Paying less than their fair share\n\nIn your mind, what would \"paying their fair share\" look like?", "HE CANNOT DO THIS. It has been repeated a thousand times in this post. He has to leave the country and apply back in ten years with no guarantees of being allowed back in.", "I agree. All im saying is that the system is horrible, I don't have any ill will towards those who are doing their job", "You called it. I'M being a snowflake. \n\nI'll wait while you show me where I said that.\n\nGo ahead..", "So you admit your post is bullshit and you actually have no idea how the immigration system works? Thanks for your honesty.\n", "It's extremely hard almost impossible. ", "Could I hire him at my company and get him a work visa then only pay him $1 a year as a consultant to he could keep his work visa for as long as it takes?", "The IRS doesn't care about legal status or not. Plenty of legal and illegal immigrants here have an ITIN. The IRS just wants people working to pay their taxes.", "If your original entry was a legal one and not a tourist visa yes you can ", "So?\n\n30 years.\n\nBecome a citizen.", "This is heart breaking ", "No. Since he was here illegally as a child, there was no path to citizenship for him. You can't--under normal rules--apply for legal citizenship if you are here against the law.\n\nOf course, he was here against the law because he was ten-year-old when he was brought here, so none of this is his fault at all.", "The government should just screen the guy to see if he's fit to stay. If he pays his taxes, causes no harm to others, and loves and cares for his family, then our society will benefit from having him. \n\nIf he passes this screening, they should at least waver the 10 year wait so he can actually apply for his citizenship.", "Mr. Mctits, I like your gumption", "Well he was brought when he was 10. It's not like he made the choice. All he knows is American values and lifestyles. For all intents and purposes he is American. What are they deporting him to? He has absolutely nothing in Mexico seeing as he's been here over 20 years. It should be considered and he shouldn't be treated the same as someone who intentionally overstays their visa", "Agree, but I have compassion for people in these circumstances. I am extremely lucky to have been born in a country that was safe.", "We kinda have that already. We have TN visas for NAFTA countries, we have H1-B visas, lottery-type immigration, and others. ", "How about [this](https://i.redd.it/d6rerj6di8a01.jpg) then?", "Yeah, \"voluntary\". I'm sure he's hugging his weeping children because he felt like popping into the old country for a week to get his papers.", "Again, it's really easy to say, \"He should have left the country at 18.\" It sounds great in theory, but logistically, it's probably a nightmare for him. Where will he go? Who will he live with? How will he survive? He was here since he was ten. For him, this is his home. ", "No idea what any of those acronyms mean. Luckily, neither of us need to. Still, it's interesting - can you restate in English please? I feel like this may be good info to have.", "But you want to let those who recieved DACA status from executive order by OBAMA within the past 10 years stay as well right?", "Massive intolerance? Towards what, breaking laws? He simply came in illegally. We all agreed on what is the legal way to come in and what is not and I don't think it had anything to do with intolerance. We are a nation of immigrants and encourage legal immigration. He chose the illegal way and this is the consequence. Same thing would happen to an American citizen trying to live illegally in any other country.", "Doubt he paid any", "What this does is deters people from entering the country illegally.", "You didn’t look into this matter at all before posting, did ya?\n\nDon’t worry, you’re not the only one, but you’re still a douche!", "So maybe he should have gotten his citizenship before he was deported? ", "> Unless we would like to open the borders completely\n\nYou...you do know there are more choices between \"fuck the law\" and \"open our borders completely\", right?", "My dad just married an American women (my dad's English) and we're almost certain she now has English citizenship; shouldn't the same apply here?", "Illegally via border crossing, sanctuary cities refusing to cooperate with federal officials, and federal officials not being able to keep track of every illegal immigrant due to the surplus of illegal immigrants etc.,", "This was something I wondered. My friend came to this country when she was 7 from Bulgaria. She graduated multiple levels of college, married, and has 2 kids. She's only ever held a green card. She pays taxes and owns her own home also. Her husband is an American. \n\nShe was arrested for selling one gram of weed on a wire. Now she's facing deportation because she always renewed her green card instead of gaining citizenship. I was always under the impression if you married an American you were allowed to stay. She's been living in the USA for 28 years and now she's probably having to go back to Bulgaria. ", "Not correct. This person did nothing to change their status, never saw an immigration attorney and now is paying for the consequences. \n\nI can see how a $hillary supporter is having a hard time understanding consequences, but this man should have looked into this over the least 22 years (since becoming an adult).\n\n > Regardless of mode of entry, some immigrants are lucky enough to be eligible for adjustment of status if they started a green card application process before a certain part of the law called \"Section 245(i)\" changed. Specifically, a green-card eligible immigrant can apply to adjust status if a prospective employer or relative filed either a labor certification or a visa petition on the person's behalf either:\n\n before January 14, 1998, or\n between January 14, 1998 and April 30, 2001 if the applicant can prove that he or she was physically present in the U.S. on December 21, 2000.\n\nSource: Licensed Attorney", "“Just stop” yeah that’s a productive way to construct an argument", "Anyone could have gotten a SS number back in the day. After 9/11 it became a lot more difficult to live a life here illegally.", "If he's such a good husband and father, why don't they go to Mexico with him?", "This is why the morality of Trump assholes is garbage. To anyone ok with this FUCK YOU!", "Because I want laws to be upheld? Get off your high horse\n\nYes they should, but that's not the law, so by staying illegally, he's broken the law for 30 years, if this guy didn't have a family, none of you guys should give a shit, you're all letting you feelings get in the way of looking at the legal situation, imagine if someone broke any other law for 30 years straight, you'd want them jailed", "Bye! He had 30 years to follow the law. He broke the law, and shouldn't expect to get away with it. \n\nThis isn't even remotely political either. Other presidents deported just as much if not more people just like this than Trump's admin, people just only seem to care now. ", "Well everyone factors into wealth calculations, but only those who pay taxes factor into percentage of total taxes paid. \n \nIf you took out the [46%](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/18/who-doesnt-pay-taxes-in-charts/?utm_term=.2f01705a8415) of people who don't pay taxes then the 1% would be paying more per dollar saved", "Idk specifics regarding immigration law, but another redditor said a person can’t apply for citizenship while living in the US. If that’s the case, it still doesn’t seem fair for a person in the situation described in the picture.", " GOOOOO\n I\n Here\n Controversial", "Its not racist to call a country a shithole, its racist to call a country a shithole as an argument for not letting people from that country in to yours. Its racist to push for non-merit based immigration. Fucking obviously. \n\nIf you have an ounce of compassion this story should be heartbreaking to you. He never had a choice and Americas done nothing to naturalize people who were brought into the country as children because they were promised a better life. That used to be Americas promise. Now its a cruel fucking joke.", "> Only reason I voted for him was because he was the lesser of 2 evils\n\nStop doing this. People voting for the lesser evil gets us where we are. There are more than 2 choices. I hate that the majority fall into that mindset where they think their vote doesn't count unless it's for \"someone with a chance\". The reason the reasonable candidate doesn't have a chance is because most of us are caught up in the \"I'm a Democrat, therefore I vote for Democrats\" mentality. It doesn't make you a lesser person to vote across party lines. ", "Empathy? I read about that in a Philip K. Dick novel once. \n\nWhere do I put the quarter?", "so he had how much time to work on becoming an actual citizen? see ya", "If they wanted that for him, they wouldn't have made him part of their criminal scheme. They would have brought him in legally. They fucked him over and they are entirely to blame.", "You lessen what it means to be an American by being one yourself.", "Well maybe their parents shouldn't have put them in that position. It's not the responsibility of the American taxpayer to foot the bill for other people's mistakes.", "The law is being illegally applied. ", "If you were brought here illegally by your parents, there _is no_ legal way to become a citizen. Have some comprehension on what you're attempting to discuss.", "> I married a family friend who was illegal to help her get citizenship, when I was in the army.\n> \n> \n\nI feel like that's illegal.", "He’s on our roads isn’t he? Educated in public schools? When he calls 911 public services respond? \n\nIllegal aliens cost the taxpayer billions. This man could be a prince and he would still have to go back. \n\nYou want this man to stay? You want DACA? Write your congressmen to fund the Wall. That’s the deal. ", "Our loss will be another countries gain for sure. I do hope the migrants can make the best of the situation, even if that means they don't come back.", "Higher up in the thread people have pointed out that as a kid who was here illegally, he had no legal path to apply for citizenship while he was still here.", "Suppose the above scenario, except you’re 10, and were brought to Japan by undocumented adults. That would be a fairer reading of the situation at hand.", "It's not a back story, but here is the [source.](https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A07d9daf7d8886005)\n\nI also don't think we can compare our country to Japan who has a very strict legal immigration policy, unlike the US that while very difficult is not nearly as difficult as that of Japan. I also wouldn't be surprised if they have a the same type of immigration issues as the US who is surrounded by poor, sometimes crime ridden countries. \n\nThis is also an individual who was immigrated illegally and we can safely assume that the only way for him to gain legal status was to self deport and try to come legally. ", "Damn, you really are thick.\n\nhttp://www.dictionary.com/browse/sarcasm", "No, not only in America. The “only in America” part is the part where enforcement of laws is dictated by political power. America has actually the least stringent immigration policies on paper of any first world country. I’m not defending the actions here—I think they suck and this guy should get to stay.", "Or, you know, you could be like every other civilized country and not punish children for the sins of their parents.\n\n>...think about the consequences of your actions before you break the law. Not just for you, but also for your loved ones.\n\nThis is the type of shit you'd expect to hear in North Korea, not the fucking US.", "Why are your ideas of what is just so dependent on what the laws of countries are? If every country had legalized slavery for enslavement become just? I guess my question is how exactly do you define justice?", "I think reducing his message to apply only to black American citizens misses the point of equality altogether. ", "So do you support the ability of a nation to control its borders or believe that anyone dhould be allowed to emigrate wherever they choose? Because open border people i dont think understand what the actual impact would be.\n\nThere are still refugee programs running. Trump wants to cut some of the numbers sure but pretending your situation was anything like illegal immigration is a bit silly.", "Most peoples goal is not to be awful.", "Out out out!", "There was a way. The legal way through the front door...like my entire family did...and my wife’s family. ", "I agree with you for people that entered as adults. But if he was 10 then he wasn't making the decision but he did live here and went to high school and had his life here.\n\nSo wasn't his choice to come but then his entire life was here so I don't think it's fair to say \"no you have to go back\".\n\nAnd it's bad economically to take a working individual and force them to leave.", "Why mention his wife and children? He chose to marry and have children while illegally being here. Now they're separated because of HIM, not anyone else. Stop undermining our country and laws, then crying foul when you (finally) get caught.", "Ya both need sympathy and both are products of Americas shitty immigration policy.", "Pathways to me owning a $100m yacht are not that plenty so if I somehow manage to steal a $100m yacht and keep it for 30 years it’s justified that I get to keep it? \n \nClearly he has made some wrong decisions like starting a family or having kids without legal permanent residence. To have kids and to raise them is a huge responsibility. ", "If my parents sneak me in disney land to shelter me from the mob outside disney land that kidnaps and sells drugs and buys guns and kidnaps some more, and disney land wanted to kick me out of there just because they can, then disney is being a bitch ass republican.", "Actually it’s 80% but I see your point. ", "I've learned it from reddit this past year and seen it a few times now. I feel like it's got to be making a comeback because I keep coming across it.", "Your issue is that you don't understand what citizenship or immigration are.\n\nYou are seeing \"This man is being deported, he has a family\" and you are completely blind to the facts surrounding the event purely on emotional grounds.\n\nIs it sad? Of course.\n\nIs it uncalled for? No, it's totally called for.\n\nYou can't bend laws because enforcing them is sad.\n\nThe immigration process in the US is strict, and it's strict for a reason. When countries let anyone who wants to come in come right in, things get muddled. All major countries have strict imigration processes and laws. \n\nYou can't go \"ok but let's completely ignore them for this guy because the alternative is sad\". \n\nThese laws and rules exist to prevent random people from showing up, circumventing a multiple-year process that involves qualifications and interviews and paperwork, and just going \"citizenship plz\". \n\nCitizens are documented, they are kept track of, they pay taxes, there are a lot of intricacies to citizenship. This guy is just as undocumented as someone wandering in from mexico and getting paid cash under the table, regardless of having a family, regardless of having a job, regardless of how long he's lived here. He is undocumented. He is not going throguh any sort of citizenship process. He is therefore breaking the law and not allowed to be here.\n\nThat doesn't stop being the case because it's sad. \n\nPeople spend years, over a decade sometimes, gaining citizenship. They do it properly. To be able to circumvent that by smuggling in a kid, keeping them under the radar for 10 years, waiting for them to get married, and then showing up at the courthouse with a bunch of balloons asking for citizenship is not okay, and so, it does not work that way. ", "Don't see what MLK day has to do with it. Sucks for his kids but the law is the law. ", "Alright. Here you go: we let dipshits in Alabama have five kids because they are Americans and we don't sterilize people. We don't let people who come here illegally stay because they are here illegally. ", "Agreed that he had 30 years to correct it, despite our terrible system.\n\nI made a bet to myself after the no pity comment, and sure enough, your post history is cancer. Shocking.", "That's interesting about Germany, but I think you're only looking at national policy. States like California (not MI where this story takes place), have some pretty extreme protections for illegal immigrants, and even benefits. The state of CA pays a shitload of money to put illegal immigrants through college. ", "The 10-year ban is following deportation. I’m saying he should have gone to his country of origin right when they got married and he could have returned rather quickly. ", "Ok there should be a way for them to become citizens. But there really isn't since he was illegal. But making it easy for illegals to become citizens isn't a great idea either. A lot of people work hard to get here legally and people just come over the border and live. It's not right. ", "Payments directly to lawmakers go a lot farther than income tax. ", "Unfortunate that it took 30 years to enforce the law", "Yep, top 1% household income is an average of $1.2 million. Bottom 80% is $51,000. I'd like to pay 2.7x the taxes for 24x the income too. People who excuse the extremely low effective tax rate on the 1% are despicable.", "Well I’m sorry the law fails to take your precious feelings into consideration. Moving on!", "> How exactly does this make America great?\n\nIf anything, it sends the message that the law of the land actually means something. It's a sad story and I feel bad for the guy and his family, but this is the law, and he broke it. Plain and simple. The only ones to blame here are this guy's parents who brought him in illegally, and the guy for not going through the process of becoming legal.\n\n> Criminals on Wall Street get a pass\n\nInfuriating, I agree. You can thank Obama for that. He's the one who ran things during and after the crash. Could and should have handled things differently.\n\n> hard working family men get kicked out because of massive intolerance.\n\nNo, because of the law that's been there for a long time, way before Trump was your president.", "Sounds like plenty of time to go through proper channels. ", "He was breaking the law being here illegally. Yes not violent crimes but he broke the law for 30 years and never tried to get citizenship. Just wow", "You are the only person I've seen that would admit they want laws to be based on emotion. Your school system has failed you.", "Because our immigration system is fucked. It encourages illegal immigration while offering no realistic way to legalize residence if you are here illegally.\n\nIt's caused by many states and cities not wanting to enforce the laws on the books and encouraging illegal immigration but also refusing to actually change the laws as it would cost them votes to be honest.\n\n", "It's borderline impossible for most people, especially people from countries in Latin America to go through the process you are imagining. ", "> Implying Native Americans had laws against immigrants\n\nFuckin' idiot. Most of them were wanderers with no concept of land ownership, never mind laws and government.", "It's more surprising than anything that there isn't some sort of system in place for things like this that's better than leaving the country for however long it is.", "They shouldn't be penalized for saving up what they have left. I think you're not understanding what I'm talking about. \n\nI'm saying they're not paying their fair share because they're exploiting loopholes. Sure, on paper the rate of taxation looks high, but do you think companies with millions in profit aren't hiring tax lawyers to strategically pay less than what they should owe? Companies using offshore accounts to hide their money? Companies exploiting tax law in other countries and \"operating\" from there?\n\nIf you believe that's not happening, I've got a bridge to sell you.", "He was 10...", "That's the kicker. Rich people are the ones using the loophole maliciously. Poor people just come here to work.", "So, an illegal alien who worked illegally in this country was sent home as a matter of law. Got it.\n", "They own more than 70% of all the wealth, so 45.7% is probablyway too low.", "You can't apply for citizenship while living in the country illegally. So \"sorting out his status\" would have involved completely uprooting his life, moving to a country he hasn't been to since he was 10, and hoping the immigration process worked in anything resembling a timely manner.", "\"we won't rip families apart\" isn't this what they said?", "That's straight retarded. Dude's spent 30 years in this country, why bother deporting him now? We're tossing out 30 years of hard work this guy put in to get what he has now, 3/4s of his entire life, just because our president is a paranoid asshole. This guy did nothing to warrant this besides be born in the wrong country to begin with. People don't cross our borders to just sit on their asses in our country and soak up our abundant wealth (if it's possible to just absorb money from the wealthy without doing anything, someone please tell me how... For science...), they come to find honest work and reduce their chances of getting shot/getting harassed by gangs and/or shitty governments. What happened to \"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free\"? Pretty much as soon as we all got comfortable and felt at home here our attitude towards immigrants did a 180°. Sure, come to our country if you have money or come from a peaceful country, but try to come here as someone without money trying to escape from an evil regime, basically the people who need it most? How dare you dream of a better life!", "there are waivers you can apply for", "What's hindsight useful for? He's not a time lord.", "You either do it by the books, or the bookkeeper throws you out.\nAs a foreigner, I don't really feel bad for people who get caught.", " If my parents sneak me in disney land to shelter me from the mob outside disney land that kidnaps and sells drugs and buys guns and kidnaps some more, and disney land wanted to kick me out of there just because they can, then disney is being a bitch ass republican.\n\n", "Immigrants used to mostly enter the country legally is why. ", "I never assumed it was easy. Your explanation basically says that it sounds like his actions by breaking rules and laws are keeping him from becoming a citizen?", "Is he married to an American citizen? There is more to this story they would rather not say, so it makes Trump look like a bad guy. I am getting tired of this crap. When are the Democrats going to Jail that committed all the crimes at the DNC during the 2016 presidential election. Democrats are too corrupt. Trump wouldn't be deporting anyone if it weren’t so important to Democrats to open borders. They are trying to rid the country of Americans. Democrats themselves are anti-American, thus disregard all the laws in this country. If it were an unjust law, it would be different. Break the law but take the consequences while trying to change the unjust law. Democrats are dodging the consequences and just ignoring then law. In that case, justice says the penalties must get more severe. It is a matter of control, not racism. Justice is blind and not a racist.", "How do you legitimately pay taxes while being illegal? It's an honest question I've been wondering. Yes you pay tax on stuff you purchase but that's not an income tax, if he pays the income tax through his wife's name, that's also kind of illegal seeing as she is clearly not making both incomes and income tax is typically taken out prior to you receiving your check.", "You get a TIN from the IRS and use that. Also sales tax, real estate tax, gas tax, and many more taxes people pay everyday.", "This is why stories like this frustrate me. The situation is obviously very sad, but this guy had a ridiculous amount of time to try and fix the situation. \n\nYet this story gets pushed to invoke an emotional response from Reddit, which is filled with users already prone to emotion-based gut reactions. \n\n", "> Risk eviction? Who would rent an apartment to someone who didn’t have an ID? Not me.\n\nI love when people who have led relatively struggle free lives talk about how easy it is to do all of the things they take for granted because they've never been in a position where they had to choose between getting to do those \"easy\" things and putting food on the table.\n", "When you are dealing with finite resources, it makes sense to allocate them to you know, citizens of your actual country. ", "You're so cool. Did you make that up yourself?", "Sounds like something Jesus would do /s", "You don't have empathy if your first concern is him making up a number, and not the fact that he's being brutally separated from his family. There was no path to citizenship for him and his status was not his fault, unless you're suggesting that a 10-year-old could force his parents not to immigrate.", "Applied for citizenship, studied for constitution test, etc. But yes, they were. ", "Good. ICE doing their job. ", "Ok", "Hey man, I just want to suggest you delete your comment. There are absolutely people lurking here who will dox you if possible and report you for marriage fraud for fun because they are shit people. ", "Even when you come here legally you need a lawyer. The people I know who have immigrated to America (my mom included) have spent about $7k each throughout the years on legal fees ", "But he had another 22 years after he became a adult to figure out he was not legal and fix it. \n\nNo he spent 22 years saying fuck it.", "He could have just joined the military when he turned 18, and gained it that way. But then this wouldn't be an awesome narrative to skew for political gain, which results in financial gain for this site via some \"backdoor\" foundation. ", "His home country is the United States. It's considerably more familiar, relatable and native to him than Mexico. ", "That's how everyone else does it. If you feel like cheating the system then the above result will follow. If you want to change the laws then follow that route, but circumventing one law destroys the validity of all the other laws.", "So how do you propose they change the law with Trump in office and a republican majority? Tell me with your superior intellect.", "Most immigration lawyers tell people to make sure to apply for an ITIN and to pay their taxes as this will put them in a slightly better standing if any immigration reform law does pass", "You mean, illegally? Because chances are, they’re not Mexican citizens. ", "That sucks, but his kids can eventually bring him back. At least U.S. law is lenient enough to allow that.", "...the U.S. has to deal with it because it's the richest country in the world, by a pretty decent margin, with a 3rd world country on its border.", "Despite Trump spewing racial hatred, his incompetence means he hasn't been able to pursue his idiotic plan of having Mexico pay for the wall or banning Muslims from America. Most people from other countries don't admire America now and don't want to come here anymore since we are on track to shithole status ourselves. \n\n", "Get a social security number and just get a job somewhere and the rest explains itself.", "This ", "Ok so at age 18 you wanted him to leave and go live in a country you probably don't even remember? And HOPE you are allowed to return back here to your family and home in America eventually one day? Yeah fuck that. He knew his best chance at keeping this life here he had was just staying under the radar and be a good citizen, to not get in trouble with the law. There is no faith that immigration will get me back here. \n\nAnd your previous statement : \"Or would they just say \"you knew the rules what did you think would happen?\"\n\nNo, he didn't know the rules at 10. He didn't choose to break the rules and then lead their entire life here. That is why DACA exist and is important.\n\n>Why is that not an option to you?\n\nIs moving to a foreign country you don't remember and living there instead of your home an option for you? And hoping you can live here again one day.", "Here’s a thought... why don’t we just make it way easier for people to come here and legally become citizens!", "> The law is the law.\n\nAnd this is where all the MLK comparisons are being drawn from that people seem to think is forced narrative. If you were to only take one message away from MLK, it would be to stand up against injustice, wherever you may see it. Especially an injustice perpetrated in the name of the law.\n\n> We don't get to decide when we want to enforce it or not.\n\nLol", "I think this is only bc he waited decades to try. My mom came across the Texas border illegally in 1980 and was pretty quickly able to obtain a visa, temp citizenship, and eventually perm citizenship.", "That is not necessarily true. This would only be the case if he was criminally deported, or if he was caught a second time. Chances are, he was civilly removed (not criminally charged) and may have been put on a suspension, but he also may have gone the [voluntary departure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_departure_\$United_States\$) route, which civilly removes an illegal resident but also allows them to apply almost immediately for legal permanent residency in a similar manor as if he was never illegally present in the country.\n\nI am not saying that I still agree with the process I just laid out, but I am just trying to bring to light that a 10 year ban is not a common remedy for illegal immigrants. Furthermore, civil removal is the most common way to \"deport.\" ", "King was pretty well-versed in the stories of people taken to America against their will and then treated like shit for it.", "What kind of logic is that? I support having borders and strict immigration like most other developed countries like the EU, Canada, etc..", "Those eyes..... first appropriate use of #sad", "The US has a progressive bracketed system:\n\nhttps://blog.taxact.com/how-tax-brackets-work/\n\n>Each dollar you earn only affects the tax rate and taxes owed on additional income. It does not change the rate applied to dollars in lower tax brackets.", "to be honest i really owe them a donation at this point. i know a lot of people who probably wouldnt be alive if it wasnt for erowid", "Correlation does not mean causation. Many other things are also involved in that statistic. That's why I asked what the person I was replying to believed, since it's basically impossible to know.", "My links literally point this out. That for a certain % of people, there are small decreases in wages. That’s what competition does. But again, THE NET EFFECT IS POSITIVE. It reduces costs, it increases output, new consumers create more market, etc", "It’s baffling how they don’t get it. If you’re here illegally leave and come back through the legal channels. It’s not rocket science. He’s had 30 years to do this.\n\n", "If the child doesn’t face the consequences also, this will encourage other parents to use their children for leverage in their immigration status. When you make it clear that nobody involved gets a free pass, this will prevent other families from using their children. It’s not like the child is thrown in jail. They are simply being sent back to their country of origin with their parents. Actions have consequences. Deal with it.\n\nIt has always been the case since the beginning of time that the decisions made by parents will directly impact their children’s lives. This is no exception. ", "Byeee", "Many illegal immigrants get tax ID numbers. You can use it to file taxes. ", "They don't want to incentivize people bringing their kids over illegally and then getting them citizenship. ...because once the children get citizenship, they can bring over their parents/siblings/grandparents.\n\nI'm not saying I agree, but that is the logic behind not allowing unaccompanied or involuntary illegal minor exemptions.", "To say that something being illegal is a reason not to do it is hypocritic. I 100% absolutely, bet my life, my wife's life and 50% of the world's population that people here complaining about illegal immigrants have broken the law to convenience themselves or better their lives.\n\nFunny how it is always good when we do it but hate it when the others do it... \n\nNever throw rocks inside glass houses. ", "Check the other responses. He had to get out of the country and apply legally with no gurantee of success. Seems that it is a 10 year old process now. You can't just go into an office and get a residency or work permit if you were entered illegally.", "America learned its lesson by allowing European immigrants to stay a couple hundred years ago.", "TLDR - he had 30 years to correct it and it's probably super easy to get that done.", "I don't think there is a way to become legal when you've been living here since you were child. He would have needed to abandon his life here and go on a waiting list. This is why DACA was important to children.", "Your entire country should be ashamed of themselves. ", "Yea look at all those incentives raining from on high.", "I have a friend that went through this- he was brought from Ethiopia on a medical visa because he had a tumor while his family got an Amnesty refugee status (the tumor was bonus there was a war in Ethiopia his family had to escape). They forgot to get his because for the next 30 years he had a social security number, identification, everything. After 9/11 bush required employers to show citizen proof. In a terrible sequence of events he lost his wallet jet skiing a week prior. He thought nothing of it filling out the forms. At 35 he was informed he wasn’t a resident, got fired, lost everything he owned. For the next 4 years he was facing deportation back to a country he didn’t know. The happy news is he finally got his green card. Sadly he lost YEARS of his life (which at 29 had a job forever owned a freaking home etc) he lost everything. He is back on track but my stomach hurts for him during those times. After he found out he couldn’t even get a license renewed— this means no driving, no social life, nothing. Thank god for foreign films and wine we made it through the years, but horrific to go through it having no control because you were a child when it happened", "30 years? He knew it was coming but was hoping it never would. If he admitted that he was illegal sooner this wouldn't be an issue. Most don't though because of fear and money. ", "I have no problem with this. We have laws. They should be followed. The fact that it’s MLK Day is irrelevant.", "How does this work my mom got her citizenship fast like applied on Friday had it on Monday. Although this was back in the 1960’s", ">Would you support making a law to punish the White families that did the exact same fucking thing\n\nThe law applies to everyone regardless of race. How do you not know that? ", "Absolutely no one benefits from his deportation, and his family loses, big time. \n\nThis has to be the number one thing that I abhor about my country. \n\nI wonder how many illegal white peoples I’ll be deported?", "And fuck off for thinking you're in any way superior to anyone else just because of where fate decided you were born.", "The 1% earns 24x the household income of the average bottom 80%, yet only pays 2.7x the taxes. You're OK with this? Seriously, think about that.", "In 30 years, why didn't he start at 18?? O mean, he had all those years to get it done.", "So you're saying that it's a slippery slope if we allow for a path to citizenship where you're undocumented but you've already demonstrated that you would be a contributing member of society, AND you've demonstrated that you are willing to support people other than yourself, even at personal risk of deportation? Is there any version of that where we could draw a new line and say \"that's okay, still not slippery.\" How many conditions do we need to add to make it sufficiently not slippery? Or is it, again, the principle of the matter, and if you're undocumented due to any reason that's the line and you'd better get out? (Edit: even if the U.S. is the only home you've ever known?)", "Don't break the law, don't get punished.\n\nDuh.", "He probably voted 1,000 times for Hillary this election ", "You missed my point. But, to respond to you, no. I think we primarily deport any non-White people.", "This is what I did. Parents brought me to the US when I was about 3, maybe 4. I'm now 27 (married & have a daughter) I'm currently waiting for my green card. Already did everything else. The whole process was about 9-10months.", "Becoming?", "Easy. Welcome to the U.S. Here are your documents. Have a nice day.", "He would have had to leave the country to apply for citizenship. Not exactly a small thing.", "Yes, very specific, but the passage of thirty years isn't one of them.", "No way you’re going to get me. I troll before I get out of the morning. ", "Please explain to me how they only pay 10% income tax. Not being snarky. I don’t know this as fact and am open to learn about it. ", "He broke the law. ", "Don't be afraid of brown people. ", "Its not as if he can't bring his kids to Mexico with him. He can.", "how so, a bulk is social security, if he never claimed unemployment or get his retirement money then he didn't get his full benefit.\n\nthe day to day like roads you pay when purchasing gas. schools, property tax so no i dont think he got his fair share if he never used a government benefit.", "Immigrating into any country is basically impossible unless you're bringing a fortune or state secrets with you. It's not just the US it's everywhere, a successful country with completely open borders doesn't exist because it's simply not economically possible to sustain what would be a perpetually and rapidly growing citizen count.", "The same loopholes available to everyone should we care to inform/educate ourselves about it or pay someone who is educated on the matter.", "I'm compassionate as well. I don't think children should be punished like criminals. They should be given the opportunity to come back. However their parents should not be rewarded for their crime. We should not encourage people to break the law on behalf of their children.", "He should have left the US earlier and then applied from abroad at a US embassy. It would have been easy for him to get a green card since his kids are US citizens.", "He’s had plenty of time to make himself a legal citizen. He’s been here for thirty years. He could have used some of the money he saved from not paying federal taxes to work toward citizenship. I’m sorry, but we have laws. They should be followed. ", "It’s incredibly difficult to near impossible to become a citizen while being in America illegally. I’m sure your mom and family members were not here illegally. So what they say would not be applicable.", "The current administration repealed DACA instead of fixing it, and is now demanding amendments be added to any new DACA legislation that would ensure it loses bipartisan support.\n\nHardly “changing”", "Did you even read what he wrote?\n\n>Why is I bullshit?\n\nWell, if you read past the first sentence, he explains:\n\n>because here is a guy with a family, a career, and a spotless record, who is a great example of the kind of person that we want to be here, and he had basically no options. And now his kids are without their father, his wife is without her husband, and he has to start living in a country where he hasn’t resided for 20 years and probably has few connections.\n\n>What good does this do to anyone? What benefit is served here? I’m at a total loss to name any.", "On this day, ICE deports someone who was in the country illegally.", "", "Added a comma just for you. \n\n;-)", "Rules are rules. ", "Dude, hush! ", "The CDC came out and denied that there was a ban on those words. That's a very well known fact. And take a step back on the \"Happy Holidays\" stuff first. Yeah the right gets upset with it but that was because there was a PC agenda that people weren't supposed to say \"Merry Christmas\" anymore as to not offend. I specifically remember the day our teachers and principal had a meeting with my grade school class to let us know there will be no more \"Merry Christmas\" allowed and also no more Christmas celebrations either...as to not offend anyone, anymore (this was maybe 1988ish). Sad and confused kids all around in the name of political correctness. ", "Unless you're a Republican, then it's okay. Fuck off, asshole.", "30 years of not paying taxes yet using American roads, infrastructure, and public services. This guy doesn’t deserve to be here. ", "NaNa-NaNa \n\nNaNa-NaNa\n\nHey Hey Hey\n\nGoodbye!\n\neverybody now!", "You have to leave the country then apply to get back in which you might not then if you get in you have to wait five more years of living as a permanent resident before you can become a citizen. Also keep in mind that the period of time it takes for you to get back in would be a while so you have to get a job in wherever you leave to that can pay for your living, all of this of course for a person who is likely not that wealthy", "There are two sides, but if you look around it's not just me on this side. America was founded on being a shelter for people who didn't feel safe or welcome in their home country. We have a big statue that symbolizes this in NYC harbor. \n\nIf deporting an innocent family man is the American way to you, then I don't want to live in the same America as you. ", "This really is an interesting concept. I imagine it would be in the best interest of the IRS to allow people without SSNs to pay taxes cause they're all like, \"bro just give us your money, we still want it.\" The IRS definitely isn't the department going around deporting people, so maybe they just snatch up whatever money they can because why not? Though I wonder if the IRS has any responsibility to report people without SSNs to either the ICE or USCIS.", "You don't have to have a solution to point out something is broken. I'm not a firefighter, but I can tell when a building is burning down.", "> What good does this do to anyone? What benefit is served here? I’m at a total loss to name any.\n\n\"Fuck people different than me,\" is generally the thought process. Though only one political party seems to take advantage of that mindset, no administration in modern times has been forgiving when it comes to deportations. ", "They should (if not added already) add a clause that allows people of illegal status to stay within the US if they've paid taxes for 10 years straight. Shows that they're more or less law abiding citizens, that they have a steady history of work/income and that they contribute to society in a meaningful way.", "I agree but isn’t it a pretty expensive process to go through? There are so many circumstances that could have prevented him from going back and certainly, I would think, lack of money would be one of them. \n\nAlso he was brought here when he was ten. It is likely he would have nowhere to go if he did go back to Mexico to apply for citizenship. I think the entire situation changed when someone is brought over as a child. By the time they are an adult this is generally the only home they know,", "And, ironically, undocumented workers contribute way more to the U.S. social safety net than they could ever possibly take out.\n\nIn fact, migrants more generally are the only thing right now keeping most social safety nets alive in advanced industrialized economies due to low native-born birth rates and aging populations.", "Yes, cause slavery and borders are the same thing. ", "> if here illegally\n\nBingo. Now fuck off and try it the legal way.", "To assert sovereign dominion.", "It's not an insult. A miscreant is one who knowingly breaks the law. Entirety accurate here and in reference to all the miscreants squatting here. ", "Does he really have a \"country\" after living in the states for 30 years? ", "So you are saying that when black people were banned from certain places and slavery was legal and freeing slaves was illegal those laws should be enforced because those laws were in place for a reason?", "That's not my job to say. All I'm saying is to welcome these guys with open arms. They're hard workers who just want the best for their children. Sure, its not the US's job to do so.\n\nOf course bringing in millions of people isn't going to solve a problem. If anything we're just running away from the problem. How about you suggest an idea?", "You have a big problem with strawmen here, you're alleging things that I never said, so you need to first correct that.\n\nI agree that his formative years were American, and he was ingratiated by the time he was 18 or 21. It's really unfair that his parents would be so careless to put him in that position. \n\nHe's not a threat either from what we know about him. But he is a criminal, and he had a chance not to be. If he jumped through the right hoops, went back to Mexico for 6 months when he got married, and applied for immediate residency, he would have been back as a permanent resident. It was his choice, and no one else's choice, to not do that, to remain here as a criminal. He knew he was breaking the law, and he chose not to fix it.\n\nIf you have a problem with the laws themselves, cool, I actually agree with you. We have a Democratic president and the Democratic congress of 1996 to thank for that. So let's hold the \nDemocrats responsible for putting Jorge in this mess in the first place.", "He didn’t break the law.", "Exactly. This guy had 30 YEARS to figure it out and he didnt. ", "That is a strange law then.", "Even on a holiday the continuous Trump bashing continues. Who cares about anything else as long as we can find something that fits the narrative. ", "Corruption.\n\n Its already an expensive process, but when you have to pay extra so people dont \"lose\" yout paperwork it just becomes easier ti cross illegally", "?", "We don't put the kids in prison. We send them home... or at least we should.\n\nRight now its. Oh you took a kid on a dangerous journey to commit a crime? GREAT! Since ya snuck the kid in you all get to stay!", "Hey forgot to say his parents committed a felony when he was 10", "Who said that?", "\"But until then, execute the law to its fullest extent, with zero consideration of its efficacy or humanness.\"", "Coming here as a 10 year old I doubt he had much of a choice. ", "I missed the first year of my son's life because I needed a spouse visa to the UK. I was here under SOFA,met my wife, out of military, went to the US, came back,married,son born, had yo leave for immigration. Took a year to get approved. I'm American btw.", "What process? An illegal just can't apply. You have to meet certain requirements, in his case it would most likely be marrying a US citizen or having his US citizen children over 18 apply for him. These are literally the only options for an illegal, anything else like having an employer apply for you or apply for a work visa are very risky and will get you on ICE's radar. Should the application fail and those do, A LOT. They'll deport you.", "Not sure about that. My dad entered here illegally about 30 years ago and last year he was able to become a US citizen. He never \"had to leave\" or ever even left the country during the process. He is in his 50's. ", "What? You think everyone who speeds is written a ticket? You think police don’t routinely allow people to drive a few miles over the speed limit if they aren’t doing anything else wrong or endangering anyone?\n\nDeporting someone who was brought here as a child, with no control over his manner of entry, and who has never committed any other crime would be like getting your license revoked for driving 3 miles over the limit. It’s an absurd overreaction, regardless of the “legality” of the action. ", "How is get caught? I have seen many undocumented people at many hospitals and governments supported agencies. But hardly any one caught. ", "It's stricter than ours, which makes your comment really funny to me.", "It sucks when you break the law and finally get caught.", "Deported from Detroit is a bad thing?", "So he was breaking the law for 30 years...", "Muh feels ", "If they are willing to pay 40k-80k to have their child here, our legal immigration laws must be absurdly restrictive. \n\n\nWe should be welcoming people who can think far enough into the future to manage saving 80k. A large proportion of our citizens never even come close to that.", "Well you might see the opportunity for those deported under Trump's stupid policies receiving leniency when someone with common sense and decency is elected in 2020. Not saying it will happen, but there is at least that chance.", "Ask his parents who brought him here illegally. ", "> Pretending a fight for human equality has nothing to do with poor minorities being fucked over\n\nNot all minorities are poor you racist.\n", "That's earned income only. I bet if you looked at ALL income, their share would be quite a bit different.\n\nMore importantly, though, the 1% owns most of our country's wealth, whereas you can't bleed a stone.", "That's a completely different situation, firstly you'd be arrested, and secondly it would be my responsibility to fix my situation, like getting off heroin, or living in a country where I'm legally allowed to be in", "No, it isn’t. It says he was too old to fall under DACA. He has to go! ", "Because he has to leave his family and life behind? ", "Correct. He has to wait 10 Years. And after that he can apply. That will take another couple years. This guy won’t be living with his family for a long time. ", "So he came in illegally. He’s technically been a criminal for all these years. We need to end chain migration. ", "Except that there literally are exceptions ", "That's the \"amnesty\" most republicans refuse to give, a path to citizenship. That's why they use that language, because for people like this, there is no path.", "\"The path to hell is paved with good intentions.\"", "That’s a great leap in logic that defies logical analysis of his position and actually practically works against his goals. I know this is what you WANT to believe, but it’s got no basis in reality. ", "You've made a speculation then linked an article from 2016 not related to a man called Jorge Garcia.\n\nWhich fly-over state are you from?", "Must’ve missed the part about being 10 years old. It’s ok, reading is really tough for you guys.", "Sucks to be him for sure but the law is the law", "You need to catch up. The \"shithole countries\" story was fake news, despite it being an accurate statement.", "In my experience they claim many dependants, so the withholding is 0 or very little. The do pay for SS and Medicare and will never recieved the benefits. I wonder how stuck those programs would be if that dissappeared. ", "It doesn’t.", "Legality does not imply morality. something can be legal and wrong, or illegal and just.", "Well. His kids probably have no right to be in Mexico, they aren't legal there.\n\nSo, he was illegal here, and his kids would be illegal there. Messed up situation. ", "In those 30 years did he take any steps to become legal? ", "FUCKING EYEROLL", "Uh huh, cause anti-illegal immigration = racist. Good try there. ", "Paying taxes under someone's SSN doesn't fall under \"identity theft\" for most people. ", "Until they stop being able to own mansions and fleets of cars would be an appropriate time to stop raising their taxes ", "What a shithole country...", "The town I was born in, in Mexico was taken over by a drug cartel that forcibly recruited young kids my age. I would be in that mess if my parents hadn’t brought me and my brothers here. Terrible people.", " U", "The US puts him in? \n\nHis parents made shitty decisions and put him in this situation.", "Tell me why. ", "> I already pointed out that the vast majority of economists would agree that even illegal immigrants are net positives to the economy\n\nSeriously... fuck off with that non-sourced bullshit.\n\nDo illegals put more into the system through taxes than they cost it? Possibly.\n\nGo tell a construction worker in one of the border counties in CA, AZ or TX that are making the same wages they did 25 fucking years ago that illegal immigration is a \"net positive\".", "It doesn't have to be purely physical. I think cameras and drones and agents in jeeps would work for most of it. And to mated detection with people to intercept the trespassers ", "Why in 30 years didn't he apply for citizenship? Seems easier than going through all of this", "Come here legally. You had 30 years to unfuck yourself and now you want sympathy.", "Or maybe you just kill the chainsaw wielding maniac instead of fleeing a border illegally? Seriously if someone is after me does Canada have a duty to take me in? You can be denied entry into Canada for any criminal conviction, to include misdemeanors. http://www.temporaryresidentpermitcanada.com/criminal-record.php For the misdemonor part: If an individual only has a single misdemeanor on their record, ten years after they complete their full sentence they may be deemed rehabilitated by virtue of time and considered admissible to Canada once again. ", "You disliked Obama because illegal immigrants were deported? As in, Obama upheld the law? That fucking scoundrel.", "You mean, there is no Citizenship store I can walk into and walk out with one? ", "I am a legal immigrant and I don't care that I went through the process and they didn't. If they don't cause trouble and are good citizens what's the reason for deporting them?\n", "I don’t like Trump but not sure how he has anything to do with any of this. \n\nEdit: People would have been deported under other candidates and people have been deported under past Presidents. Maybe for this specific example sure rage at Trump. But for deportation in general, no.", "He knows as much as Fox news will tell him.", "How is it created then?", "To what? Open borders for all? You’re thinking with your feelings now.", ">There's no way this man could have realized that he wasn't following immigration law at any time in the last 30 years and do anything at all to remedy the situation instead of taking the much easier option of ignoring the problem and hoping that it went away.\n\nAlthough your comment was sarcasm, you were correct with this one statement. If he had self-reported at any point, he would have been deported. There is no path to citizenship for kids brought here that do not qualify for DACA. Basically, you're saying that at 18 or so, he should've just packed up his life and moved to a country with which he has no familiarity, just because our laws are idiotic.", "I'm that time, why wouldn't he apply for citizenship? ", "It was a question. But I agree questions can be wrongthink in this day and age.\n\nPer Section 141 of the Social Security Handbook:\n\n“You may be prosecuted for criminal fraud for knowingly furnishing false information as to your identity in connection with the establishment and maintenance of Social Security records.”\n\nNow this can get complicated, as law always does, considering the 7th Circuit has attempted to introduce leniency through emotional interpretation via Arias v. Lynch.\n\nThat is about as far as I care to take it, certainly further than any lazy passerby that my question hurt oh so badly. Feel to add, but spare me the fact-less lecture.", "That’s not how it works... that’s not how any of this works..", "ITT: people breaking the law for 30 years and not trying to move for citizenship. My heart really goes out but 30 years being ignorant is not a justification.", "How about literally?", "So you think it was totally okay that people came to another people's lands to kill, rape, and steal from them. Got it. You're a real stand up guy. ", "This is bullshit. My brother in law did exactly this and is now a citizen.", "What is it with people comparing issues to slavery? Slavery was doing something against an entire population's will. Mexico has a country all to their own, if all the hard working Mexicans worked in their native country they might not be in such awful shape. They need to work with their own government instead of feeding off ours. Our country was founded off immigrants, but there's such a thing as legal immigration. If you're not accepted it's not an excuse to illegally cross the border and expect to be welcomed with open arms. ", "It punishes people who come here illegally. Making sure that if you do come here, you come here legally, or face the consequences.\n\nIt's like...\n\nWhy send a guy to prison for assaulting some other dude? How does that make America great? It doesn't. You're paying for his prison and he's not working. But sending him to prison sends a message.", "22 years", "It’s not.", "illegal", "Nice narrative, Reddit! MLK has nothing to do with this.\n\nKeep doing your job, ICE; get these illegal alien criminals out of my country.", "Wellp.", "Lol your arrogance and assumptions are astounding. \n\nThe reason is because of society. If you are rich and don’t want to contribute back to society, better move to middle of nowhere. \n\nTbh a lot of those arguments are just stupid. \n\n“They generally don’t use the same services”\n\nYeah, cause they can afford a 100k doctor visit if they needed to, or even 0 out of pocket because they can afford health insurance. \n\nThe only real argument a lot of people can make here is “fuck other people”. Which doesn’t really work in a society. ", "The law kind of enforced it. He was told months ago that he was being deported. I believe the article states Oct, but it could have been Nov.", "If my family brought me somewhere I shouldn't be that doesn't mean I can stay", "So you're saying you're for reparations? Or are you for letting this guy stay because his \"ancestors\" did something he had no say in?", "It's just racism.\n\nHe isn't a white man so they don't care.", "The way illegal immigrants are doing it now, is by getting a Tax ID number. They work and pay all taxes but at the end they receive no tax income return, SS or any other benefits. So yeah they are putting more money into the system than leeching.", "Got myself a SSN at 15 when I first arrived in the U.S. while not being a citizen (at the time). I did have a green card though.", "Its just wrong, and to me its a spit in the face of every person who ever immigrated legally.\n\nThis is an adult. Someone who should know better. It sounds light, but if they had the chance to immigrate how can we just let them off.\n\nIts not that the punishment is to heavy or to light. They are going home because they couldn't play by the rules in the first place. You can't get your drivers license by speeding any different than you can immigrate legally by just getting here.\n\nThey did this to themselves. They did this to their children, and this is their problem not ours. It shouldn't have been allowed to happened in the first place.", "Source on illegals being a net drain? ", "are you saying thats good or bad?", "His family can follow him. \nOr would his old country then suddenly be a shithole?", "He would've had to leave at 10 years old just to be able to do that. After one year of being here, when he was 11, him being deported would result in a 10 year ban of re-entry. Maybe we could just, I don't know, not punish someone who was brought here as a child and stuck between a rock and a hard place since then, and knows no other place as a home? Lmao but that would require empathy and kindness to understand I suppose..", "There’s absolutely no “live in” type of process? Like he couldn’t have gotten a visa or green card in the mean time? And just renewed that? \n\nThat doesn’t sound right ", "That statistic is pretty misleading. If I make $100 and you make $50, and we're both taxed at 20%, I pay $20 and you pay $10. Sure, I've paid 67% of the overall tax collected, but I can't complain that the tax burden on me is unfair. We paid the same rate.\n\n", "The Donald is quite the Job Creator ", "To be fair, we are the ones that invited people in need to our country. It's printed on a giant green statue. It seems off to then make the process as hard an expensive as it is, especially when we are supposed to be the exception. ", "Amnesty isn't fixing the situation though. It just encourages more illegal immigration. Wasn't the Reagan amnesty meant to be the end of illegal immigration? A nation can either control its borders as it wants or it is no true sovereign nation at all. Open borders is a pipedream that would result in disaster.", "I wasn't aware you could be a redneck in Seattle. At least you tried though :/", "This is a man who’s lived in America since he was a child, he’s no more of a foreigner than I am.", "10 years cannot be held to adult standards for crimes per US law. ", "Not really. Only legal immigrants who are dependent on someone who's not a citizen but have a SSN get ITIN.", "So it's the parents fault...", "This is one of those cases where some discretion should be applied, and he should be allowed to stay. It's not doing anyone any good to deport this guy. \n\nHowever, illegal immigration needs to be addressed, and it needs to stop. People saying that this kind of thing \"only happens in America,\" are being disingenuous or are not familiar with the strict immigration laws of almost every other country on earth. The problem here, is that American immigration laws have not been enforced for decades, and that has benefited both parties. Democrats want future voters, Republicans want cheap labor. They're both wrong. With that being said, many of my friends who immigrated here legally, are the biggest proponents of enforcing immigration laws in a strict manner. Ignoring laws just invites people to keep breaking them in the future.", "Here are more studies show that illegal/undocumented immigration are a NET POSITIVE to the US economy:\n\nhttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/do-illegal-immigrants-actually-hurt-the-us-economy.html\n\n>Giovanni Peri, an economist at the University of California, Davis, has written a series of influential papers comparing the labor markets in states with high immigration levels to those with low ones. He concluded that undocumented workers do not compete with skilled laborers — instead, they complement them. Economies, as Adam Smith argued in “Wealth of Nations,” work best when workers become specialized and divide up tasks among themselves. Pedro Chan’s ability to take care of routine tasks on a work site allows carpenters and electricians to focus on what they do best. In states with more undocumented immigrants, Peri said, skilled workers made more money and worked more hours; the economy’s productivity grew. From 1990 to 2007, undocumented workers increased legal workers’ pay in complementary jobs by up to 10 percent.\n\n>There are many ways to debate immigration, but when it comes to economics, there isn’t much of a debate at all. Nearly all economists, of all political persuasions, agree that immigrants — those here legally or not — benefit the overall economy. “That is not controversial,” Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute, told me. Shierholz also said that “there is a consensus that, on average, the incomes of families in this country are increased by a small, but clearly positive amount, because of immigration.” \n\n>The benefit multiplies over the long haul. As the baby boomers retire, the post-boom generation’s burden to finance their retirement is greatly alleviated by undocumented immigrants. Stephen Goss, chief actuary for the Social Security Administration, told me that undocumented workers contribute about $15 billion a year to Social Security through payroll taxes. They only take out $1 billion (very few undocumented workers are eligible to receive benefits). Over the years, undocumented workers have contributed up to $300 billion, or nearly 10 percent, of the $2.7 trillion Social Security Trust Fund.\n\nFrom the right wing think tank, CATO Institute: \n\n>• Daniel T. Griswold, former Director of the Herbert A. Stiefel Center for Trade Policy Studies at the Cato Institute, concludes that “basic economic analysis and numerous empirical studies have confirmed that immigrants boost the productive capacity of the United States through their labor, their human capital, and their entrepreneurial spirit. Instead of competing head-to-head with American workers, immigrants typically complement native-born workers by filling niches in the labor market.”\n\n\nhttps://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/cutting-immigration-myths-down-size\n\n>Myth number five: Immigrants depress the wages and working conditions of American citizens. New widely cited research purportedly by the Bureau of Labor Statistics declares that immigrants are responsible for “about 50 percent of the decline in real wages for the lowest-skilled workers.” Yet this “study” was never sanctioned or endorsed by the BLS. It is also contradicted by virtually all other studies on the subject. According to economist George Borjas, who is often cited by the opponents of immigration: “The methodological arsenal of modern econometrics cannot detect a single shred of evidence that immigrants have a sizeable adverse impact on the earnings and employment opportunities of natives.” For example, in the 1980s the U.S. accepted 7 million new immigrants, but unemployment fell sharply and family incomes rose. \n\nhttp://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy\n\n\n>When analyzed from the vantage point of information derived from reputable, nonpartisan sources (the Pew Research Center, USDA, United States Department of Labor, and leading economists and researchers) then one can obtain a clearer view of this muddled discussion. The truth of the matter is that illegal immigrants are important to the U.S. economy, as well as vital to certain industries like agriculture.\n\n>Their importance was highlighted in a report by Texas Comptroller Susan Combs that stated, “Without the undocumented population, Texas’ work force would decrease by 6.3 percent” and Texas’ gross state product would decrease by 2.1 percent. Furthermore, certain segments of the U.S. economy, like agriculture, are entirely dependent upon illegal immigrants.\n\n>The USDA has also warned that, “any potential immigration reform could have significant impacts on the U.S. fruit and vegetable industry.” From the perspective of National Milk Producers Federation in 2009, retail milk prices would increase by 61 percent if its immigrant labor force were to be eliminated. \n\n\n>But what about the immense strain on social services and money spent on welfare for these law breakers? The Congressional Budget Office in 2007 answered this question in the following manner: “Over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use.” According to the New York Times, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration claims that undocumented workers have contributed close to 10% ($300 billion) of the Social Security Trust Fund.\n\n>Finally, the aggregate economic impact of illegal immigration is debatable, but any claim that they’ve ruined the country doesn’t correlate to the views of any notable economist. An open letter to President George W. Bush in 2006, signed by around five hundred economists (including five Nobel laureates) stated the following: “While a small percentage of native-born Americans may be harmed by immigration, vastly more Americans benefit from the contributions that immigrants make to our economy, including lower consumer prices.”\n\n\n\nAnother good read:\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/California/comments/6aef6o/california_is_the_chief_reason_america_is_the/dhe5jpl/", "So she left the country first and then applied for citizenship from abroad before re-entering? How old was she when she left again? How long was she abroad for before re-entering? Did your grandparents go back abroad with her too before she could re-enter or did they remain here illegally as well?", "Yeah at this point I'd say fuck America and pick Germany,Denmark or Sweden to move too.", "No room to be PC here. People are calling it what it is. Get over it.", "\"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.\" - Mickey Mouse\n\nI agree with this quote.", "Why did he have kids and establish a life here without ever attempting to obtain citizenship first? His parents screwed him over by entering illegaly, doesn't mean he had to destroy his kids lives too.", "I personally don't want illegal immigrants here. I want legal immigrants. I'm glad they are paying tax but I'd prefer if they followed the law. As for children that were brought in illegally I don't want amnesty for them because it will enable more parents to break the law and immigrate illegally. \n\nEither way I'd prefer Congress to make laws rather than relying on executive action. Instead of temporary measures like ITIS, either make laws and give them a path to legal immigration/permanent residence or kick them out. I don't like these half measures.", "I agree. I am also far from being a republican, but we need an immigration policy that works because it's unrealistic to think we can just let everyone come in or stay that wants to.", "He will get the 10 year ban, so he can begin applying after 10 years. The process itself is around 1 year.", "Law is about order, not compassion. Plenty of American parents have gone to prison for crimes and lost everything they had, and their children were left to suffer. \n", "My sides. Spot on.", "Where is that damn quote of rom's from ds9?", "Makes sense. It would be like asking for permission to be on someone's property after you are already trespassing.", "I don't think that he had a chance to choose when he was 10 years old... \n\nI'm not saying it is fine to accept illegal immigrants, I'm saying that certain cases need to have special consideration. Babies/kids that became adults are a different case than a 30+ years old that jumped a fence to get in.", "It's actually due to increased demand because of how powerful America has become and increased security to safeguard against the enemies that come with that power, but whatever. Anyone who distinguishes between legal and illegal immigration is just \"afraid of brown people\"", "Or just an objective standard in the form of this thing called a \"law\" that is applied to everyone. \n\nIt would be unconstitutional to unequally apply immigration law due to the Equal Protection Clause. If you give one guy an exception out of \"compassion\", then everyone who had the law used against them could claim constitutional violations. \n\nThe law has to apply to everyone equally. ", "Neither of those articles say they were arresting people who were testifying in courts. They say they're worried arresting people in courthouses will deter people from testifying. The articles describe them showing up to courthouses to arrest people appearing in court for crimes, traffic violations, and warrants, exactly like I said. So still waiting for a source of someone being deported when they never did anything wrong to pop up on radar, because what you provided was the complete opposite. ", "What does this have to do with MLK Day?", "So do College Diplomas.", "And the 10 year old is expected to?", "Thank you for asking the question that sparks the discussion that many Americans don't think about.\n\nIllegal immigration wouldn't be so bad if it were easier to get here legally. ", "If he had applied when he was in country he would have been banned from the US for 10 years. ", "Because they are entitled to their property and services just like you are entitled to your property and services. If YOU don't like the way the system is running, you can blame the LEFT and the RIGHT for rigging the system to keep more of our money away from us. Vote for change. Vote for someone who will represent you rather than tow party lines. \n\nTaxation is Theft.", "But his parents knew what they were getting in to. No matter how good their intentions were, that is their fault and no one else's. We can't keep having unskilled illegal immigrants and dropping labor wages. ", "\"Banned from seeing his family for 20 years\" Are you fucking retarded? They could just fly to whatever country he was deported to to visit him. \n\nHe did a lot more wrong then just start a family in the wrong place, he could have left at any point in his adulthood prior to that, and his parents could've not been shit and exposed their child to the situation in the first place. Plus, if he is paying taxes that means he's stolen a SSN, which is identity theft, and if he isn't he's just draining a locale that needs all of the help it can get. ", "He came with his family as a 10 year old. There is no way in hell you would've abandoned your family like that.", "It's very disturbing that our legal/justice system is this screwed up.\n\nThis is a great injustice. Not only to this man and his family, but to all American citizens as well.", "He can bring his family to mexico as much as he'd like, seems like he doesn't want too", "Progressives think MLK was a BLM activist that would agree with everything they say.", "Fuck the kind of needlessly strict and prohibitive measures it takes to transition between them? Yes, absolutely.", "I'm sorry, are you trying to say this justifies his deportation?", "Did you miss the part where his parents broke the law, and there are consequences for that? They made a shitty decision and they put their child in a shitty position. Shame on them, not shame on anyone else.", "Sorry ", "Why are you assuming I'm the one who brought up mail order brides when I'm not? ", "Also you only get to apply for this if you have someone that can file for you (a US Citizen spouse or US Citizen children over 21). THEN you can start this process. If you have no one that can file for you, you’re most likely not eligible for anything and just live in the shadows ", "There's a thing called Tax ID which functions as a social for tax purposes", "Why not? At age 18, he could have gone to Mexico and gone through the proper, legal channels. Instead, he chose not to. \n\nThis is an absolutely horrible situation but it has only occurred because this individual was willing to break the law with impunity for years. \n\nWhat if instead of living in the US illegally, his crime was instead fraud or tax evasion and he was living under an assumed name? Use the exact same circumstances. Person has been working, has a family and has not committed a crime for 20+ years. Our justice system still believes they should be punished as they did not serve out their punishment.\n\nAs bad as I feel about splitting up this family and as much as I believe that there should be provisions in place to combat these types of situations (considering he was brought into the country as a minor), this should have been a logical outcome for him under the current legislation. \n\nWith all that being said, there should be a provision that allows a citizen spouse to easily sponsor someone if they have been married for a select amount of time and remain married and cohabiting for a similar amount of time after residents. Obviously, this could lead to an increase in sham weddings but that could be combated by not allowing the individual who was sponsored any type of enrollment in social programs in the event of a divorce within an additional segment of time after the divorce.\n\nOr, a provision that allows illegal minors to apply for residency within a year of their 18th birthday, assuming numerous checks and balances. Which sounds a lot like something Trump is doing already.", "Hell yea someone speaking the TRUTH", "So if someone is brought to the states when they're 17, they shouldn't be kicked out if they stay illegally? Where's the line?\n\nThe law can't be subjective based on how you feel about a situation. That's the core of beuracracy: everyone gets treated the same under the rules. ", "In your comment you implied that governments are inconsistent with immigration policies, e.g. sanctuary cities. Is inconceivable that the opposite is also possible? A precinct that is very aggressive in deporting people? ", "Very sad", "Because the US can't support everyone.", "I'll wait for a real source! no problem debating immigration but when we start with biased vitriol then what's the friggen point. ", "DACA is flawed. We need new legislation for guys like this", "Why did the governor of the state not ask for special treatment? I thought for sure that was a common thing and allowed.", "at least he has better health insurance :(", "Fuck. You. America. ", "What? ", "the titanic sunk on its first trip, so I have no idea what you're trying to say here", "You can still pay taxes without a SSN. You use an ITIN. Also if he bought a valid SSN number then he could have used that too.", "Really? So we have no right to national sovereignty? We have no right to say who we wish to accept here or set criteria for entry? And once someone is caught inside our borders illegally we do not have the right to ask or force them to leave? Or does Disneyland not have that right? Just as Disneyland is an entity owned by certain people who have the right to say who may enter and under what terms, so is the USA (or any nation). Instead of being owned by shareholders and managed by a board of directors, a nation (well, at least, a democracy) is owned by the people and managed by the government.\n\nThe analogy is sound and you don't get to handwave it away.", "Puhleeze, quit your bullshit.\n\nThe government exercise it's prosecutorial discretion on a daily and individual fucking basis for a myriad of reasons.\n\nYour advocacy for a robotic application of the law is what is fucking ruining the criminal justice system in this country. ", "He also paid taxes for 25 years and looked after your ass. In addition no matter how good a lawyer you got if the rules say u don’t qualify you don’t qualify. Then what happens when u apply hoping for a special case...you get sent back anyways!", "Republicans are traitors. ", "He came into the country when he was 10.\n\nRegardless of whether he could simply go back to Mexico and try to apply for a green card to get back in, he was 10 years old. ", "Well last year only 362 people from Norway obtained green cards. And only 93 Norwegians became citizens. [source](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/01/trump-shithole-norway/550382/) Saying anything meaningful about Norwegian immigrants is difficult. But it doesn't matter if Norway is a better country than African countries. Admittedly, I think Norway is a better place to live than most countries in the world. That's probably why so few of them immigrate to the U.S. However, the fact that immigrants from African countries are better than the general U.S population means that they should be welcome.", "Which brings us back to why? \n\nKeep up.", "> How exactly does this make America great? \n\nB/c you missed the subtext. Great = White. Like the shark. But racist.", "The process of becoming a citizen:\n\nObtain a green card (legal permanent resident). This can take a very long time, as there is a backlog of more than 4 million, and there are per-country caps, so if you come from someplace like Mexico, China, India or the Philippines, you may have a wait of 20 years or more to get the green card.\n\nNext, 3 to 5 years to become a citizen.\n\nSo yes, it can take 20 to 25 years to become a citizen legally if you're from Mexico or several other countries. If you're not from Mexico or the Philippines, you may have to wait 2 to 12 years.\n\nIf you're getting a work-based visa, it may be different, but if you have a bachelor's degree it's probably four years or more.", "Being here illegally does not. Entering illegally does. ", "He's not being punished for his parents crime, he is merely not being allowed to reap the benefits of it.", "Well... bye", "Yea, he turned a blind eye to that part. ", "\"Can't keep it together anymore\"\n\nThis sucks for him and his family, but the fact that this causes you such anguish that you can't keep it together is worrying. Having empathy is one thing but letting the misfortune of someone else ruin your day is mind boggling. How do you function ?", "Fuck Trump. Stop normalizing this racist prick.", "Do you remember how much control you had over your destiny as a 10-YEAR OLD?\n\nJesus, I was just trying to figure out what my favorite cartoon was in 4th grade; not figure out the ramifications of my legal status and the consequences my failure to cross over the border and apply for citizenship legally.", "Wow what an articulate and well formulated response. ", "Obviously he is supposed to run away from his family.", "I had to check to be sure but when my mom went through the immigration attorney he recommend and filed a case citing some sort of asylum for my mom that i am unsure of. She left Guatemala fleeing an abusive and life threating husband and i know at a time we came here in 1984 there was poiltical issues. So he may have cited both but i am not sure What ever he did worked ", "Goddamn 10 year olds, sneaking across the border and living as productive members of society for 30 years!", "I'm sure we'll find out after they are done investigating and prosecuting him for his other major federal violations.", "Should go the British route - if you lived in UK for 20 or more years IN ANY CAPACITY (including illegally) you are allowed to apply for settlement, and then receive citizenship. ", "Holy Straw Man. I hope to God you never get to make decisions on anyone's behalf. ", "What would you suggest that he, as someone who was brought here as a child, do to change his immigration status? You can't begin the citizenship process if you are brought here as a child and not covered by DACA.", "What’s the rest of the story. By the headline he’s cancelation eligible and very unlikely to be deported. What are you leaving out?", "Pointless. ", "How is a legal system, which has been revised multiple times, intolerant? Was he deported based on race, age, religion, orientation, or any other factor?\n\nPlease revise your thoughts. Not disagreeing that this is a horrible tragedy for him and his family and also not knocking your thoughts on the country. Just... Jesus dude.", "He probably should have figured that out by now. Quit promoting unlawful citizens and getting mad at laws. He’s been here for 30 years. If he was brought as a child because of his parents that’s fine, but he should have tried to become legal when he turned 18. Not have a pity party when he gets deported because he didn’t follow the laws of the country he chose to stay in.", "Lots of US born citizens are fucked over because their parents did illegal shit, but I don't see any articles on the front page crying about their fate. ", "It's just boiling down to excuses. This is the burden his parents put on him by breaking the law.", "What about grabbing women by the pussy without permission...What happens then?", "Well they are illegal. ", "8+ million of the estimated 11 million illegals are central American. 1+ million are from Asia. That makes 9 million of them \"people of color\" and that doesn't even include African countries. In reality, the \"white\" illegals probably are less that 10% of all illegals.\n\nIt's not targeting if it's the majority.\n\n[here is some info.](https://immigration.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000845)", "The time period is irrelevant whether it was 22 years or 22 days. He was a child at the time the crime was committed. ", "No, we should eliminate the loopholes. Who do you think the loopholes benefit? The highest grossing companies. Why? Because tax law is so complicated that it takes a lawyer with an incredibly high retainer to help you fudge the numbers and move your money around. \n\nNah, fuck loopholes and fuck people who exploit them. Pay your damn taxes.", "Exactly. Not a victimless crime. Lucky to just get deported.", "Shit, that’s awful. ", "Being an addict isn't a crime. ", "To make matters worse, since he's being deported, he can't even apply for 10 years. When he does start it, he has a black mark on his record now which will make getting in even harder. Optimistically, he can come back in 15 years at which point he'll be in his late 50s and his kids will all be adults.", "How does Trump have anything to do with how awful this is.\n\nThis law is the law regardless.", "Or like Canada....since it's beside Detroit ", "How about the fact he was 10 years old and didn't have a choice in the matter?", "Cya", "I don't think you are getting how hard it is to come in legally, that's the problem here. not that this man came here illegally, but the fact the immigration system is so bad that several families would prefer to come here illegally just to have a decent life, so they can support their families and have a roof over their heads. ", "You're absolutely right. He just commits treason, which is currently under investigation and will likely lead to somebody's prosecution. He's just lucky the rich and powerful don't face the same consequences and the rest of us. ", "> We need open borders. \n \nOpen borders, as in anybody can come and automatically be a citizens with no limits?\n", "I’m not sure that’s the right context for gumption but I like your vocabulary. It’s absolutely erotic.", "I mean . . . it is the law, though. The people who passed these laws were across the political spectrum.\n\nThis notion that the law should be selectively neglected is not a healthy form of governance either.\n\n", "Fucking insane the lack of human touch that beauracracy leads to.", "Hang on, his kids should be citizens. So he's the parent of a pair of US citizens, and presumably the spouse of one.\n\nSo, shouldn't he be able to apply for a green card immediately, and then become a citizen in three to five years, assuming his existing \"time served\" isn't counted?", "On any given day, law enforcement arrests many fathers, mothers, sons, and daughters who have broken the law.", "Identity theft? Yes. Unquestionably. Causing problems? Probably not? It's complicated. In some cases they're doing the \"victim\" a favor. The amount you receive in social security payments when you retire is proportional to how much you paid when you worked. If an illegal worker pays into social security under your name then you get a higher monthly payment because of it.\n\nThat said, it's possible that they could do more than just work in someone else's name. They could apply for credit, file for the other person's income tax return, etc. But those are pretty stupid things to do as they'll flag the SSN as stolen and get the worker fired. Most illegal immigrants are here for economic reasons. They want to feed their family back home. They won't do anything to jeopardize that job. Which is incidentally why some other problems arise. Hit and runs are quite common (because they don't want to talk to the police for fear of deportation) as one example.", "I mean, The best way to have addressed the issue would have been to leave, travel back to the US on a travel visa, And then apply for your green card through your marriage before having children and starting your life. Is it a risk, Sure, But now he's barred from the US for 10 year regardless and never even had the chance to become a US citizen. I don't know about you but taking the gamble seems like the more logical path than just doing nothing all this time.", "So this is what making America great looks like? If you support this and think it’s ok, you’re a piece of shit. ", "I mean think about it for a minute. He was brought to America when he was 10. By the time he was an adult and actually able to Anke the decision to move back to Mexico and apply for legal status, he was completely foreign to Mexico and was by all means an American first and foremost. It would have then taken him ten years to possibly obtain citizenship. Who knows, he might have already had a child at this point that he could have been responsible for. It's never as simple as just going back, applying, then joyfully walking right back through.", "?? feel free to see us at r/neoliberal. We're unironic supporters of free trade, open borders, free markets but also for the most part SJWs. Come on by if you want to see that we're real. Just don't be shitty if you choose to participate.\n\nHave a good one :)", "I think we did it guys. America is great again!", "Yeah, my friend is a restaurant manager and one of her employees said “if I bring you another SSN card, can I work double the hours?” She was like “no and I’ll pretend you didn’t say that thanks, try a place down the street” ", "K bye. Don't care. ", "It used to be the law that women could not vote, you could own slaves, and you could not buy alcohol, just because its a law doesn't make it right. The United States was formed by people breaking the law, and every year we have a big celebration because of it. ", "And it's a common misconception they pay in more than they cost the U.S.", "This is the correct answer. \n\nSad story.", "Again, I understand that this is one hell of a call to make, but in an ideal world, he should have left the United States and applied for residency or citizenship outside of the US.\n\nUltimately, the blame falls on his parents for putting him in this extremely shitty position where his only two choices are to break the law or go through a ridiculous self-deportation process, but the point is, as a grown man he made a choice -- an unfair choice, a shitty choice, but a choice -- and ultimately has to face the consequences for that choice.\n\nLife is not fair.", "Good bye and good riddance! :)", "> But how can you make a law so that it's fair for everyone?\n\nwindows. You were here for more than X years right now? You can prove you've been here for X years? Cool. You can prove you were under 18 at the time of coming (and have been here Y years)? Cool. \n\nWill some people still try to do it? Hell yeah. People always try to immigrate/emigrate around the world unnoticed. If you catch them, throw them out. If you catch them after the above conditions have been met? Make them citizens. If a person can lie low for so many years, get married, have kids, and be productive, why would we throw him/her out? We should reward these people for their hard work and dedication. We need these people on our side. I find it shocking that anyone can say they're criminals. They broke the law crossing the boarder for a good life, did well, and now you want to punish them for trying to better themselves. (Jury nullification on this one, is what I'm trying to convey)\n\nOk, but what about the people who do it legally? Good on them! They had the resources and patience, and they should do fine in our system. I don't blame them for not crossing illegally and working for years with the fear of being deported, losing their family, and jobs. I wouldn't have the balls myself do it. I'd do it legally. But I'm not going to knock anyone for having a go at it.", "Here are more studies show that illegal/undocumented immigration are a NET POSITIVE to the US economy:\n\nhttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/do-illegal-immigrants-actually-hurt-the-us-economy.html\n\n>Giovanni Peri, an economist at the University of California, Davis, has written a series of influential papers comparing the labor markets in states with high immigration levels to those with low ones. He concluded that undocumented workers do not compete with skilled laborers — instead, they complement them. Economies, as Adam Smith argued in “Wealth of Nations,” work best when workers become specialized and divide up tasks among themselves. Pedro Chan’s ability to take care of routine tasks on a work site allows carpenters and electricians to focus on what they do best. In states with more undocumented immigrants, Peri said, skilled workers made more money and worked more hours; the economy’s productivity grew. From 1990 to 2007, undocumented workers increased legal workers’ pay in complementary jobs by up to 10 percent.\n\n>There are many ways to debate immigration, but when it comes to economics, there isn’t much of a debate at all. Nearly all economists, of all political persuasions, agree that immigrants — those here legally or not — benefit the overall economy. “That is not controversial,” Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute, told me. Shierholz also said that “there is a consensus that, on average, the incomes of families in this country are increased by a small, but clearly positive amount, because of immigration.” \n\n>The benefit multiplies over the long haul. As the baby boomers retire, the post-boom generation’s burden to finance their retirement is greatly alleviated by undocumented immigrants. Stephen Goss, chief actuary for the Social Security Administration, told me that undocumented workers contribute about $15 billion a year to Social Security through payroll taxes. They only take out $1 billion (very few undocumented workers are eligible to receive benefits). Over the years, undocumented workers have contributed up to $300 billion, or nearly 10 percent, of the $2.7 trillion Social Security Trust Fund.\n\nFrom the right wing think tank, CATO Institute: \n\n>• Daniel T. Griswold, former Director of the Herbert A. Stiefel Center for Trade Policy Studies at the Cato Institute, concludes that “basic economic analysis and numerous empirical studies have confirmed that immigrants boost the productive capacity of the United States through their labor, their human capital, and their entrepreneurial spirit. Instead of competing head-to-head with American workers, immigrants typically complement native-born workers by filling niches in the labor market.”\n\n\nhttps://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/cutting-immigration-myths-down-size\n\n>Myth number five: Immigrants depress the wages and working conditions of American citizens. New widely cited research purportedly by the Bureau of Labor Statistics declares that immigrants are responsible for “about 50 percent of the decline in real wages for the lowest-skilled workers.” Yet this “study” was never sanctioned or endorsed by the BLS. It is also contradicted by virtually all other studies on the subject. According to economist George Borjas, who is often cited by the opponents of immigration: “The methodological arsenal of modern econometrics cannot detect a single shred of evidence that immigrants have a sizeable adverse impact on the earnings and employment opportunities of natives.” For example, in the 1980s the U.S. accepted 7 million new immigrants, but unemployment fell sharply and family incomes rose. \n\nhttp://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy\n\n\n>When analyzed from the vantage point of information derived from reputable, nonpartisan sources (the Pew Research Center, USDA, United States Department of Labor, and leading economists and researchers) then one can obtain a clearer view of this muddled discussion. The truth of the matter is that illegal immigrants are important to the U.S. economy, as well as vital to certain industries like agriculture.\n\n>Their importance was highlighted in a report by Texas Comptroller Susan Combs that stated, “Without the undocumented population, Texas’ work force would decrease by 6.3 percent” and Texas’ gross state product would decrease by 2.1 percent. Furthermore, certain segments of the U.S. economy, like agriculture, are entirely dependent upon illegal immigrants.\n\n>The USDA has also warned that, “any potential immigration reform could have significant impacts on the U.S. fruit and vegetable industry.” From the perspective of National Milk Producers Federation in 2009, retail milk prices would increase by 61 percent if its immigrant labor force were to be eliminated. \n\n\n>But what about the immense strain on social services and money spent on welfare for these law breakers? The Congressional Budget Office in 2007 answered this question in the following manner: “Over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use.” According to the New York Times, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration claims that undocumented workers have contributed close to 10% ($300 billion) of the Social Security Trust Fund.\n\n>Finally, the aggregate economic impact of illegal immigration is debatable, but any claim that they’ve ruined the country doesn’t correlate to the views of any notable economist. An open letter to President George W. Bush in 2006, signed by around five hundred economists (including five Nobel laureates) stated the following: “While a small percentage of native-born Americans may be harmed by immigration, vastly more Americans benefit from the contributions that immigrants make to our economy, including lower consumer prices.”\n\n\n\nAnother good read:\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/California/comments/6aef6o/california_is_the_chief_reason_america_is_the/dhe5jpl/", "They are breaking the law.", "Under Obama, ICE focused on finding and deporting convicted criminals.\n\nUnder Trump, ICE focuses on arresting non-criminals at their jobs and when they pick their kids up from school.", "Suck a dick, racist. 10 year olds have no choice in where they’re brought. And he was a tax paying productive person for 30 years w American citizen family and ties to the community. ", "Alright so where's the gofundme for the family? I'm willing to donate.", "So the process of getting a green card seems pretty quick, which allows you to be in the country. It's citizenship that takes longer. How come a green card isn't good enough for now?", "You can if you’re undocumented. ", "Lol. ", "Ever hear the expression \"he can write 'I was right' on his gravestone\"? Maybe it's a bad law. But it's still a law. And he didn't just risk his own future on it, he risked his wife and his children's. He can tell his fatherless children and husbandless wife all about how it's okay cause he's really a great guy and the law is stupid anyway. \n\nOR he could have A) not had kids as an illegal resident, or B) taken his family out of the country to apppy for legal entry. He didn't and now the law has finally caught up to him. It sucks but it's a risk he knew he was taking every day. ", "Hey this is reddit get out of here with your rational thoughts. ", "But the child is the one being affected\n\nLaws shouldn't be blindly followed for the sake of it. The effect they have on people and whether enforcing it does more harm than good should be considered.", "What are the good intentions behind celebrating a violent insurrection whose sole purpose was to enslave other people?", "I love how we come full circle. Literally we found the problems and answers and I guarantee you people will still be ignorant of immigration policies.", "Thats only true if the people around you don't care.\n\nIf we as a nation started caring, reality wouldn't be so harsh. ", "What would you prefer to call someone staying in the country illegally?", "the criminals run the asylum", "You can't invade a place that was uninhabited, genius. \n\nThe native americans were here first. Stop trying to weasel out of it. ", "Ha. Bless your heart ", "So what. If you want to live and work here, go back to your country, get a work permit and apply the proper paperwork to get the process started. I live in Houston where we have a huge illegal population and know several people who have done this. They will all be legal citizens after a few years. Hell, it's a full blown cottage industry for all the immigration lawyers here.\n\nHe should have taken the time to get his shit right. Now he has a much bigger problem.", "This is just fucked. They’ve just ruined a family. ", "I argued against what you said in your post, you assumed I cared about your opinions outside of this post.\n\n\"people who are vulnerable to exploitation and crime, people like this guy living in the shadow of the american dream. The big companies that use all these immigrants on their factory floors and pay them peanuts are the ones who pay political groups to paint everybody who wants immigration reform as rabid racists.\"\n\nIn case you forget again, this was your post. ", "I thought if you were married to an American citizen that you got to stay", ">A man isn't entitled to steal bread just because he's starving.\n\nI'd stay away from the River Seine, Javert.", "What about Haiti or an African country? ", "The US doesn't really support anyone. Except for large corporations that is. And the tobacco and fossil fuel industries. ", "I wonder if those saying he should be deported because he committed a crime also say everyone who smokes pot should be locked up because that is also a federal crime. I doubt it. You can't have it both ways. ", "Good work America - let's not concern ourselves with the clear white collar criminals like Equifax or Intel execs that dumped stock before bad news got out, or that federal agencies like the FCC are blatantly bought and paid for.\n\nNo, instead, let's dump time, money, and resources into deporting a long standing American back to a country he hasn't lived in since he was 10 years old and knows nothing about, leaving his entire family behind.\n\nLet's put his family on government assistance now so the US Taxpayer has to support his family since he has been deported and not offer him a clear path to citizenship.\n\nGreat work.\n\nedit: Looks like the poli-sci majors from t_d are brigading.\n\nReplies from T_D frequenters - your echo chambered comments are actually extremely intriguing because there isn't an original thought between you guys:\n\n* -BeardedLurkers\n* hogshead1218\n* Cockoisseur\n* shrekter\n", "So did he lose his appeal? My mother works a in a school and it's quite common for parents who where here illegally to appeal the deportation a process that can take 1-2 years without them being removed from the country.", "30 years is a long damn time to do nothing to become a legal resident.", "The only way to remedy the situation would be to leave the US and sit in Mexico for years.", "Not true. I know people who came illegally 15 years ago, sued the uscis (some lawyer in Texas apparently is v good at this) 8 years ago, won and the whole family are now US citizens. ", "yeah get that criminal out of here ", "So you can’t actually logic through your own position. Guess I win then. ", "Here are more studies show that illegal/undocumented immigration are a NET POSITIVE to the US economy:\n\nhttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/do-illegal-immigrants-actually-hurt-the-us-economy.html\n\n>Giovanni Peri, an economist at the University of California, Davis, has written a series of influential papers comparing the labor markets in states with high immigration levels to those with low ones. He concluded that undocumented workers do not compete with skilled laborers — instead, they complement them. Economies, as Adam Smith argued in “Wealth of Nations,” work best when workers become specialized and divide up tasks among themselves. Pedro Chan’s ability to take care of routine tasks on a work site allows carpenters and electricians to focus on what they do best. In states with more undocumented immigrants, Peri said, skilled workers made more money and worked more hours; the economy’s productivity grew. From 1990 to 2007, undocumented workers increased legal workers’ pay in complementary jobs by up to 10 percent.\n\n>There are many ways to debate immigration, but when it comes to economics, there isn’t much of a debate at all. Nearly all economists, of all political persuasions, agree that immigrants — those here legally or not — benefit the overall economy. “That is not controversial,” Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute, told me. Shierholz also said that “there is a consensus that, on average, the incomes of families in this country are increased by a small, but clearly positive amount, because of immigration.” \n\n>The benefit multiplies over the long haul. As the baby boomers retire, the post-boom generation’s burden to finance their retirement is greatly alleviated by undocumented immigrants. Stephen Goss, chief actuary for the Social Security Administration, told me that undocumented workers contribute about $15 billion a year to Social Security through payroll taxes. They only take out $1 billion (very few undocumented workers are eligible to receive benefits). Over the years, undocumented workers have contributed up to $300 billion, or nearly 10 percent, of the $2.7 trillion Social Security Trust Fund.\n\nFrom the right wing think tank, CATO Institute: \n\n>• Daniel T. Griswold, former Director of the Herbert A. Stiefel Center for Trade Policy Studies at the Cato Institute, concludes that “basic economic analysis and numerous empirical studies have confirmed that immigrants boost the productive capacity of the United States through their labor, their human capital, and their entrepreneurial spirit. Instead of competing head-to-head with American workers, immigrants typically complement native-born workers by filling niches in the labor market.”\n\n\nhttps://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/cutting-immigration-myths-down-size\n\n>Myth number five: Immigrants depress the wages and working conditions of American citizens. New widely cited research purportedly by the Bureau of Labor Statistics declares that immigrants are responsible for “about 50 percent of the decline in real wages for the lowest-skilled workers.” Yet this “study” was never sanctioned or endorsed by the BLS. It is also contradicted by virtually all other studies on the subject. According to economist George Borjas, who is often cited by the opponents of immigration: “The methodological arsenal of modern econometrics cannot detect a single shred of evidence that immigrants have a sizeable adverse impact on the earnings and employment opportunities of natives.” For example, in the 1980s the U.S. accepted 7 million new immigrants, but unemployment fell sharply and family incomes rose. \n\nhttp://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy\n\n\n>When analyzed from the vantage point of information derived from reputable, nonpartisan sources (the Pew Research Center, USDA, United States Department of Labor, and leading economists and researchers) then one can obtain a clearer view of this muddled discussion. The truth of the matter is that illegal immigrants are important to the U.S. economy, as well as vital to certain industries like agriculture.\n\n>Their importance was highlighted in a report by Texas Comptroller Susan Combs that stated, “Without the undocumented population, Texas’ work force would decrease by 6.3 percent” and Texas’ gross state product would decrease by 2.1 percent. Furthermore, certain segments of the U.S. economy, like agriculture, are entirely dependent upon illegal immigrants.\n\n>The USDA has also warned that, “any potential immigration reform could have significant impacts on the U.S. fruit and vegetable industry.” From the perspective of National Milk Producers Federation in 2009, retail milk prices would increase by 61 percent if its immigrant labor force were to be eliminated. \n\n\n>But what about the immense strain on social services and money spent on welfare for these law breakers? The Congressional Budget Office in 2007 answered this question in the following manner: “Over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use.” According to the New York Times, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration claims that undocumented workers have contributed close to 10% ($300 billion) of the Social Security Trust Fund.\n\n>Finally, the aggregate economic impact of illegal immigration is debatable, but any claim that they’ve ruined the country doesn’t correlate to the views of any notable economist. An open letter to President George W. Bush in 2006, signed by around five hundred economists (including five Nobel laureates) stated the following: “While a small percentage of native-born Americans may be harmed by immigration, vastly more Americans benefit from the contributions that immigrants make to our economy, including lower consumer prices.”\n\n\n\nAnother good read:\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/California/comments/6aef6o/california_is_the_chief_reason_america_is_the/dhe5jpl/", "Yes he did. His parents did, too. Don't skip the border.", "You should edit your comment and pickup the /s you dropped for the ones who suddenly feel a draft over their heads. ", "Where was the lefty outrage when the exact same thing happened thousands of times during the Obama administration?\n\nOh wait, it wasn't trendy to care then.", "I know plenty of “American citizens” that are 1099 that make 50k+ that haven’t payed taxes in over 5 years.\n\nJust saying this guy feels as must American as me and you. He came here when he was 10. I can’t ever remember where and what I was doing at 10 years old.", "Our president and everyone who follows him are such pieces of shit.", "There is a system to let people like that stay, its called naturalization. ", "Only in the amounts the very liberal immigration department sets as limits each year. \n\nIllegals surpass those numbers. So by government definition, every illegal alien does hurt the country because they push us over the limit. ", "They can't.", "Don’t know how to manage your finances? \nCocky statement for someone who is ignorant. \n\nMore importantly, the corporations are the problem. They use tax loop holes to avoid paying taxes. Sure the individual 1% might pay his taxes but the company he works for does not. And his or hers off shore accounts are not paying taxes. But they love America. ", "Just what was he supposed to do? Picture yourself being 18. You go to college, you have a partner, friends and stuff. Chances are you barely know how to pay taxes and other adult stuff. Some dude comes and says you’re illegal and need to abandon everything and move alone to a foreign country that you can barely speak the language (since you moved as a kid) and know nobody. Would you just go and say “alright! lets go!”?", "Mens rea states there can be no crime without criminal intent. QED. He personally comitted no crime. His parents did.", "Sure. Sales tax, gas tax, property tax, etc. On top of the income tax he paid. ", "I'm not the guy you responded to, so I didn't claim that. But I will defend him by saying that my ancestors came to the US seeking opportunity while abiding by the laws. They aren't morally superior in any way, but it's not valid to say it's okay to break laws because they didn't apply to people in the past.", "Hmmmm it’s almost like had 30 years to do this... this is the risk you take by starting a family as an illegal immigrant. It’s a sad story sure but it doesn’t mean our laws shouldn’t be enforced.", "Holy shit folks I just have to say something real quick and if you want to bash me ban me or whatever the hell is deemed appropriate go for it. There are some simple and true human truths that surpass every entitled selfish stupid bit of absolute evil and hate that cause nothing but harm and hurt to everyone through the attitudes some people have presented here.\n\nThose of you who have decided to come into this discussion arrogantly and ignorantly and ignore the human factor involved in this story and many other stories like this that are happening everyday, shame on you.\n\nYes the laws are in place for a reason, and yes it's complicated for every personal story because so many aspects of our ever evolving and changing immigration system are involved. I'm not going to claim to be an expert or even as educated as I probably should be on the issue to even take a stand. But to me this isn't even as much about immigration and DACA as it is about simple compassion and coming to the realization that there will come a day when borders mean less than the right to be recognized as human and not hated for which part of this floating ball you were born on.\n\nSome of the comments I've read here are just absolute and total evil seeping from the people that claim to be righteous in their own right by their own rules and by their own standards. ANY of us as individuals are equal to grass and equal to greatness simultaneously on this planet, so why would you take it upon yourself to step up on the soap box of the internet and cast hate down on those that are dealing with something you may never have to face just because of where you were lucky enough to be born?\n\nThe laws are ever changing and it will sway one way this year, and the other way the next. But the fact that we are all fucking human beings won't change and those of you who need to feel better about yourselves by speaking hatred into the world because another person is different from you, I don't just feel sorry for you. I feel sad for you. What a horrible way you've chosen out the one life you have as member of the human race. \n\nPeople, WAKE UP! Nothing is accomplished by spreading hatred and division. And if you decide to harbour these qualities in your heart, you are the embodiment of the very thing holding the entire world back from finding common ground amongst people. Men women and children die every day over a selfish, idealistic and exclusive view of other races and folks who just aren't the same as you.\n\nSorry to whoever has a problem with what I'm trying to say here. But it's 2018 now and I can't just sit around and watch people hate people anymore for absolutely no significant reasons whatsoever. Maybe this man doesn't meet the standards to continue to live in the USA right now and so be it regardless of whether you agree or not. My opinion does not matter in regards to what I am trying to say here. However, those of you who read the title of this post and feel hatred for the people involved because of who they are, you ARE THE PROBLEM. And in the future humanity will look back on you with such contempt you will feel ashamed in your grave.\n\nIt's high fucking time we stopped hating each other over shit that really doesn't matter at the end of each and every day. Take your ignorant bullshit elsewhere because these are real people, not just a picture attached to a fucking Reddit post.\n\n", "You mean an ILLEGAL immigrant had to leave since...you know...he’s not a citizen? Well, become legal and you won’t have to leave. That simple", "and the countries that you have lived in have no comparison from the country that his parents fled from. Seems to me you have no idea what other people go through. When you have to leave a country entirely is something to think about.", "> no criminal record\n\nIf he's here illegally, he is a criminal. Fuck off with this bullshit.", "BUTTERY MALES! FREEZED PEACH!", "> Also why is this on r/pics?\n\nBecause everything is politics now. It sucks.", "There's no good solution to this problem. If he stays it sets a precedent for every future illegal immigrant, if you kick him out you're uprooting a man from his life. Hence the better option: not allowing illegal immigration. A country has the right to accept or reject immigrants as it sees fit in accordance with its laws.", "30 years and he didn't qualify for citizenship? What gives? ", "The article say that there is a chance that he will get a 10 years ban on applying ", "He had 30 years to become a citizen and didn't do it? Sounds like he should get in line and try the right way. ", "Jokes on you, I hate the clintons already, but nice try. ", "Well considering only about 120,000,000 people even voted, half the people that voted represent half the country's views on politics. The other 200,000,000 are either people who are too young to vote or don't care either way. Use your noggin, it's not hard.", "Ok but he’s had 30 years to get his paperwork together to get legal?", "Cause actual racism and individual borders and immigration are the same thing. Keep up the good work diluting what actual racism is. ", "He didn't bother to apply to become a citizen and you really think he applied for an ITIN? c'mon.", "Considering the top two quintiles of earners pay 86.5% of all taxes in the US and are not eligible for any form of welfare, it's pretty much a given that you're not going to get a 1-to-1 input output of taxes. However, he spent his time with equal access to the goods and services he (would have) qualified for (if he were legal), and that's enough.", "How do you feel about him promising to release his taxes then simply refusing to and lying about why he can’t show them? ", "It's a very tough question and I will agree with your implied point that a 10 year old cannot be blamed for where his family takes him. \n\nBut at the same time, he would have easily known when he was being taken to America that it was not legally, and he would have known (and been told, by his family, in very strong terms) not to mention to friends or the authorities how he entered the country. That's how those things work.\n\nSo, by his late teens or early 20's he could have and probably should have made the very tough decision to get back to his home in Mexico and to apply to come to the USA legally. \n\nIn all truth I would like to have more backstory bfore making a judgement on his case. How much family does/did he still have back in Mexico? Who specifically took him to America? When did he know he was not in America legally and (frankly) why did he choose to marry and have a child, knowing perfectly well he was subject to deportation all along? \n\nThere is also a broader policy point to consider and it's a harsh-but-necessary one: The USA cannot project to the world that its policy is \"If you're illegal, just have a baby and you'll never be deported\". The law has to be upheld and there have to be these tough deportations to show the world the law will be upheld even when there are compassionate factors favoring the lawbreaker. ", "I worked with a guy who was a legal immigrant. He left his family in Mexico for around 5 years until he could move them here legally. He had no sympathy for people who take “the easy route”. \n\nHe did say he understands why so many people try their luck illegally though. The violence in Mexico is really bad. Apparently his brothers entire family was killed my the cartel. \n\n", "He willingly chose to be brought to the US as a child?\n\nMan, Americans are really stupid, huh?", "I brought my wife here on tourist visa and just got her green card. We were married for awhile abroad though. ", "Yeah he probably didn't need to be at work or home raising his children or anything.", "Then DACA should stay in place until there's a new law. These types of laws affect people's lives and should be taken seriously. ", "Yes but it's a legal residency which this guy didn't even bother to get. How are you going to try and tell me the differences when I have a green card and you're likely a native to whatever country you're from?", "You realize they are in fact people, right? Actual human beings. ", "It's okay if you don't get my point.", "I don't see how you can get that from what he said", "Good point, except he paid his taxes.", "Your choices effect you kids folks, keep this in mind. ", "This is getting insane.", "The rules are an ass then. And society should get with the program that keep American white again doesn’t work in an interconnected world where the us got lucky geopolitically so it became rich ", "That's abosolutely ridiculous, I can't believe ICE would do that.\n\nICE > ICE-IS > ISIS", "I'm betting 22 to 25 years more or less. Thats how long the process is from countries like the philippines.", "As the child of Latin American immigrants myself, the mental gymnastics that people like this hop through to justify and normalize breaking the fucking law is absolutely galling.", "She came here illegally as a child, as well as my aunts. She never left back to mexico. Once she was of age she applied for citizenship and did all the necessary paperwork/testing. ", "Don't come here illegally is the message your yourself want to send if you don't want to get rid of the laws... ", "Is it? I think there are a lot more numbers than that if you want to evaluate if that's a lot of not. It probably depends a lot on you know how much income that represents and what rate you think the top 1% should be taxed at.", "Large-scale amnesty for illegal immigrants has been granted several times since the 80s. It usually came with a fine (up to $1000, I think), but it was an option for people who wanted to stay legally without having to leave the country first. He may have had reasons for not going this route, but I'm not sure why no one is acknowledging it was an option.", "You should never get a PASS for breaking the law for 30 years. He had plenty of time to move in the direction of citizenship but he decided not to and to take his chances..... finally caught up to him. ", "Pure narrative. Staged event. Jorge Garcia had already ignored TWO lawful deportation orders more than THREE YEARS AGO! You know, before Trump was even a candidate. This deportation process was only going to end one way and Mr. Garcia put his family through needless expense and suffering with his defiance of US law. Read the story from 2014:\n\nhttp://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2014/11/immigration_announcement_means.html", "So you don't think it's their fault this is happening? Just a coincidence? ", "Where are you getting that number? I'm seeing 39.5%\n\nhttps://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2016-update/", ">If the alien was unlawfully present in the US for more than one year prior to departing, they are barred from returning for 10 years from the date of their departure. This bar applies regardless of whether the alien departed pursuant to Voluntary Departure.\n\nSource: http://asianjournal.com/immigration/the-truth-about-voluntary-departure/", "That depends almost entirely on what the adults who brought him over told him. Blissful ignorance is just part of being a kid. It is entirely possible that they just told him \"we're moving\". Kids aren't concerned with border laws. The legality of the situation may have never even crossed his mind.\n\nAlso, the border laws weren't as strict back then. I've crossed to and from Mexico (legally) multiple times without a passport; it wasn't even a requirement until recent years. ", "Are you caucasian by any chance?", "Except that his parents brought him illegally. ", "Yep, you’re a bigot if you want to uphold and immigration law.", "Well, the President specifically asked congress to figure out something and instead the Democrats are spending their time trying to insult the President. Maybe they should actually try to legislate. ", "This is a sad story, but people please understand he has had 30 years to apply for citizenship", "Trying to obtain extra feels.", "> But again, THE NET EFFECT IS POSITIVE\n\nThat is, for the overall GDP, but not for the people who actually need to pay the bills, if I have X amount of jobs filled, and need more jobs gives me X+Y total needed jobs but I have Z = (X + 10000) people, and I get A immigrants who will work for jobs for less than Z, that means that (Z - A - X) > Y and that there are now people who would normally have a job that don't because of immigration, and the immigrants are paid less than Z - X people because they will work for less. This means it depresses wages in the area and is bad for the people at the bottom. It's simple economics and reality.", "Why aren't they?", "So after he turned 18 he didn't apply? So he could have fixed this before he settled down and had kids?\n\nStill a very sad story", "I guess I'd amend once again, since we're moving the goalposts, to ALL your taxes, not just the ones that you have no way of avoiding. Which is what matters, and I'll tell you the IRS ain't gonna take \"Oh I pay most or some of my taxes\" as a good excuse.\n\nAnd fuck those people. I don't care about them, I don't agreed with them, but most importantly, hypocrisy doesn't make someone wrong. ", "Remember that ICE still does it's job, even if it isn't always fair. The American people need that job to be performed effectively. You can't help but feel bad for the kids, though. ", "Yeah those ten year olds going around breaking the law by having their parents move them here. Damn them. Do you see the flaw in your argument? ", "I'd trade you for him. ", "> The Presidents shithole comments do all but prove the point. \n\nIf Haiti isn't a shithole. what is?", "Loopholes that 100% of the general population uses to get their money back every year? Did you know that the wealthy don't get a tax return? They often owe more in taxes by the end of the year. They often get audited every year for how much they make. \n\nTaxation is Theft.", "We're supposed feel bad about this? Anyone who falls for this emotional manipulation is pretty dumb. I prefer an actual country with borders over the feelings of an illegal. ", "So he has had about what 20 years to make it right?\n\nBye.", "Are they gonna this guy back the taxes he paid? ", "Well if we gave them more they'd just be paying a larger share of the taxes.\n\nMaybe we should think about the marginal benefits instead? I.e. what would a poor person do with $20 v.s. someone in the 1%?", "Do you do his taxes? And mostly because the don't have SSNs, so they likely don't pay taxes. \n\nAlso, it's illegal alien. Not non-citizen. ", "No win situation", "Normal business means strategically declaring bankruptcy in order to avoid taxes on profits. \n\nCool. Fair share my ass. ", "Oh really? How was he going to correct it?\n\nOh BTW, without a breadwinner, the rest of his family is gonna end up on public assistance. Good job. ", "What exactly do you expect him to do? You can't attempt to adjust your immigration status if you entered illegally, he'd have to move to Mexico and then try to enter back into his home legally. the system isn't set up in such a way that you can easily fix that problem without massively disrupting your entire life", "This story is down to one decision, by one man, which circumvented a voting process. To say either party is to blame is missing the mark when it's an executive order. It's asinine to proffer the opinion that society at large is at fault for something that was implemented in such a manner. ", "The fact that you label all republicans with that vast brush is EXACTLY the reason why Trump won the office. ", "> Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.", "Shh, you'll scare the children!\n\n &nbsp; \n\n ^^^^I ^^^^am ^^^^a ^^^^bot", "I mean, it's a news article. I don't think you can fault them for not going into immigration policy in depth, they may have assumed as I did that this was more common knowledge.", "Nobody is saying it’s easy, they’re saying he should have done it. If it’s hard, then do it. I’ll bet right about now he is wishing he did something in the last 30years. ", "More so if the same countries refuse to take back criminals that migrated over illegally as well. They get the best buck of the situation. Less criminals and more potentially high contributing citizens. ", "Bill Gates has pledged to give near the entirety of his wealth to cancer research, water scarcity, and other charitable causes before he dies. He will probably go down in history as the man that cured Malaria. Literally hundreds of millions of people will benefit from his wealth. \n\nTell me more about how the wealthy exploit the poor. ", "Here's the issue. This really sucks for him, and his family. And I think he should be able to stay. But of course you can't possibly just start only applying the law to people on an individual basis.\n\nHonestly this is why I am in favor of a wall. Even though I know it won't work the way I want it to. If you achieve the goal of stopping illegal immigration then you have the opportunity to go back and give some of these deserving people citizenship. Hell if it were up to me I'd build a big ass wall and then give everyone already here citizenship and get them paying taxes. Or at least give them citizenship based off working and paying taxes for the next decade with the ability to kick them out if they don't. Then we also have the ability to control the border and speed up the process for people who have been waiting patiently to get in legally. \n\nIf done propertly a wall could be a benefit for everyone involved. Not to mention counter drugs that cross that way.", "No one is arguing about whether or not he was a good guy, but, by definition, Columbus was not an illegal immigrant ", "he had 30 years to find them out, apply them and live happily ever after. he chose not to, and now his kids are subjected to the same pain he is suffering his parents caused him. When will people accept personal responsibility and follow laws instead of \"but my feelings\" He is the last guy i'd deport but we have laws, his family broke them and now he suffers due to it. If only the rules were followed 30 years ago and his family was deported then we wouldnt have the issue now.\n", "Even if you overstayed a legal visa that doesn’t mean to have to leave and restart. Like if you were here on a student or work visa and wanted to adjust status based on marriage or etc", "I mean, you call ICE, get a free bus ride. BOOM....you're out of the country in a day or two.\n\nI certainly cannot travel abroad with just a sudden phone call.", "Spanish? 🤔", "Legislative branch creates the laws, you can't really blame the executive branch for passing it. I mean he could've vetoed it but that's not a guarantee and you can't just veto everything you don't like if you want a working relationship with congress.\n\nAnyway it doesn't matter who passed it, the law still exists and it needs to be changed.", "What have I said that was false? \n\nYou can talk about the things people actually say if you want.", "Ignorance of the law is no excuse.", "Very unfortunate for her parents to put her in that situation.", "And what's wrong with easing the path to citizenship? This country was founded on immigrants. Our Statue of Liberty welcomes immigrants from all corners of the Earth. Why should the US arbitrarily change it's fundamental stance on welcoming everyone to \"Nah, we're good, stay the fuck out\"", "You're sure they weren't? I'm pretty sure they were. Who's word should I take for it?", "Um...what? You just made up an argument ", "Username checks the fuck out", "[He is married to a US citizen](http://www.wzzm13.com/news/local/detroit/after-30-years-in-us-metro-detroit-immigrant-deported-to-mexico/508218873)", "My parents are from Mexico and both speak spanish. I do not speak spanish, now imagine me having to go to Mexico and live for the next 10yrs surrounded by gibberish. Yeah I don't think so. Assuming the kids don't speak spanish.", "This is obscene. Absolutely the polar opposite of everything this country has been and stood for.", "That's going to be a tough sell. A mere slap on the wrist like you're suggesting would likely encourage immigrants to skip the legal route all together. The result would be we have absolutely no control over the rate of immigration and very little visibility into who those immigrants even are - many will object to this.", "maybe you should shut the fuck up", "I'm sure he didn't get a DUI in Canada. if you've been convicted of a misdemeanor in the USA you are banned from entering Canada.", "He should only be able to return if he pays 30 years of taxes.", "So if criminal on wall street were put in jail, you would be okay with this? ", "Here illegally? Go back and start legally. Can't be 2 path for immigration. For me he, it's like linecutting. Not fair for those who make the effort to apply legally. ", "Only in certain circumstances. \n\nYou can't have \"dual intent\", meaning you can't have come to intend to live and lie. \n\nMelania Trump would also be disqualified as she came to the USA on a visitor visa, but worked. That is illegal. Considering she got a green card, she did so via fraud because she would have to have disclosed that and she didn't. It also means her citizenship was obtained via fraud and should rightly be revoked. Citizenship can be revoked when it's not via naturalisation and won't leave you stateless. \n\nThis is what pisses me off about this case: The guy ordering these removals is doing it to cases less egregious than his wife's transgressions.\n\nWhat it's for is like...you come here to visit and end up falling madly in love and getting married. Then you get an adjustment/K visa. ", "So borders work differently based on the intent of the people crossing them?", "This deportation will probably cause his American family to go on government assistance, costing the taxpayer exponentially more money than if he had just been allowed to stay and continue paying taxes and supporting his family.\n\nThose policies are too broad and outdated.\n\nNobody, and I mean NOBODY but Native Americans are here rightfully, so you can fuck right off with your hillbilly “GIT DEM EELEEGULLS OUTTA MAH CUNTREH” rhetoric and have some empathy you sociopath.", "Laugh all you want my family immigrated from Switzerland in 1965. My grandparents took about a month to get there’s and my mom had hers with in 48 hours. \n\nDoes country of origin mater or was it a different time ?", "Yeah probably right. Damned if you do damned if you dont situation right there.", "I'm sure it's very hard. Oh well though. If you want to come here illegally and gamble that the law might never catch up to you, go for it. But you risk leaving your children fatherless and your wife alone if you do that, and that's what happened. Neither path is easy, but one guarantees at the very least you will get to stay with your family. ", "Perhaps there'll come a day when you're met at the wrong end of a morally unfair law and people will feel no remorse for you either. I'm sure it'll change your perspective on things a bit.", "Even with civil removal the 10 year ban stands. I moved back voluntarily 6 years ago and was denied a visa in 2017 because of the 10 year ban. ", "Who said he robbed a bank", "Well, it's because they are here illegally. It's not meant to be derogatory. I understand that some people use it a derogatory term but its just a way to indicate that they did not in fact come to this country through legal means even if it was not their fault", "I believe you and I would get along perfectly. So much of this. People think too much with emotion.", "I’m pretty sure this is /s, but I know a handful of people who would say this straight faced. Never sure what to say to them, I feel like they brought the argument into absurdity at that point. \n\nEDIT: I scrolled down and found the straight faced version. ", "He had to self deport in order to get his citizenship. An ITIN is extremely easy to get, just takes a W7, passport (doesn't have to be US), and a tax return (without the social filled in). ", "You mean following the laws passed by our elected leaders? Yeah, fucked up man. ", "Good call, im sure you're well informed of his financial and living situation and know for certain that an option like that was available to him.", "I'd be thanking the Republicans for not allowing the democrats to pass more dumb ass legislation which would fuck over the country. \n\nACA has screwed up by introducing an unnecessarily large amount of government intervention into the system, causing costs to increase yet again. ", "There are other countries kicking out undocumented immigrants that have lived in their country for decades?\n\nThe guy did not have a choice of where he was born and his life was ruined because of it...and you are just okay with all of that?...", "Why doesn't his family just go to Mexico with him? Then they can be together. Mexico isn't so bad. ", "Yeesh", "White Nate fisher is expert on how to get citizenship:)", "Don't know I was 19 when Clinton had his last term and didn't give a damn about politics at that time. ", "dont be stupid, its very implied through many post in this thread.", "Goodbye!", "I don’t know the percentage of people who do make it through but I’m guessing it’s low. I know I sound like a smart ass and I’m not trying to be. Do you know the percentage?", "There was no solution over those 30 years. He came here as a 10 year old.", "We will make sure to deport him on cinco de mayo also after he sneaks back in. ", "In reality, he had 12 years. Can't do shit as a minor.\n\nStill, he should have known this would happen eventually and decided to have a family and everything.\n\nFuck him for putting them through this with his short sighted ass decisions. ", "Most certainly not, but that was also never the point I was trying to make.", "Except the law clearly doesn’t apply to wealthy people.\n\nCrashed our economy because of your greed? Tsk tsk. Don’t do it again. \n\nHere illegally yet worked hard and didn’t commit crimes? We’re deporting you. \n\nWhat justice is that? ", "Are you legitimately suggesting that the only reason that the USA and Mexico are different is because Americans follow laws, and Mexicans don't? It would go a long way towards explaining why you bandwagon'd onto the \"GOOD RIDDANCE\" post.", "but if this had been a week from now it wouldn't get anywhere near this attention. Perfect example of the confederate statue type recreational outrage. If you care about an issue, care about it all the time, not just when its popular.", "You're absolutely right. My point is that it isn't constructive to say \"I don't like how this is, it should be changed!\" without offering any input, and then call people names because you don't like them pointing out the facts. I never said the laws couldn't be changed, or even that they shouldn't be.", "It was not just one random person, it's the group narrative they have. Not wanting millions more Muslims in your country is called racist by the general Democratic party. I also clearly said \"one of the reasons\"\n\nIt's not just calling names either, being branded as a racist has serious consequences. Didn't join the Republicans by the way, I'm independent and vote for both sides depending on the election and people in it.", "He was 10. He didn’t break the law.", "People would have been deported under other candidates and people have been deported under past Presidents. Maybe for this specific example sure rage at Trump. But for deportation in general, no.", "The law is supposed to be blind. If you believe that very basic thing, then justice was served in this case. It is up to Congress to pass new laws if the country feels otherwise, not pick and choose who should have to follow the law.", "Judging by your name I could tell you like to do the same thing. Maybe check yourself before you look for someone else to blame? ", "He was 10 years old", "Since this is just a pic: https://www.lawandcrime.com/crazy/father-of-two-is-getting-deported-even-though-he-doesnt-have-criminal-record-supporters-say/amp/\n", "What's so bad about Mexico?! It's not like it's a craphole or anything.", "i was talking about the dude in the picture not trump lmao", "Law is based on logic, not emotion. That's what \"impartial\" is about. And 30 fucking years, he can't lift a finger to apply for citizenship? Seriously? If your parents sneak you into Disney World, and you get caught, is it your parents fault or Disney's fault for breaking the rules?\n\nI'll await my shitstorm.", "Yeah, not buying it for a second\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/1lbrmn/spoken_as_a_white_male/cbxvxer/\n\n\nNobody who spends years complaining about minorities and celebrates a deportation like this isnt racist.\n\nYou are a racist. And true to form, a cowardly one at that. At least have the balls to stand your ground instead of trying to put a good argument spin on it.\n\nAnd you have the nerve to say I try to make it a race issue. You fn people...", "Too bad the news doesn't run the stories of illegal immigrants who self-deported and are now in the process of applying for legal citizenship. The fact this guy stayed here for 30 years and thought he could get away with it just speaks to his selfishness.", "I'm arguing that the law should be changed. Calling me an antifa retard is truly the stupidest thing you can possibly say. You're being just as divisive and stupid as the far left. Look in the mirror, dude.", "> Me and husband just got his two year green card in the mail a few weeks ago. If you have any questions definitely let me know\n\nI assume this means you just had the Adjustment of Status interview very recently? I came to the U.S. with a K-1 fiancé visa two years ago, got married, and sent in my i-485 application 13 months ago. We just now got the letter with my interview date scheduled. It took over a year. And my interview will be in a few weeks...\n\nCan I ask, what kinds of questions did you have to answer in the interview? Were you and your husband together or separated? How did it go in general? I don't really know what to expect!\n\nEDIT: I just came back and it appears this thread has been locked. /u/kristen_hewa, thanks for the detailed information below! \n\n>We were nervous for the interview and he was way more nervous than me but like after awhile I didn’t really feel nervous at all because I mean, we ARE genuine and I think it’s super obvious.\n\nThat's pretty much exactly how I feel. I know I'll be a little nervous at the interview regardless, but I'm also 99.99% sure everything will turn out just fine. :)", "Fate didn’t decide shit. My parents decided not to illegally bring me into another country at the age of 10. His fucked him over. Not our problem. ", "I never said it was.", "He died in 2015 of a heart condition.\n\nHe did have free health insurance but when we talked about it, he was upset that it could take weeks or months to see a specialist when referred. Also, the number of doctors per resident in Vancouver meant long waits just to see a normal doctor. Apparently many who became doctors in the local area moved to the US where the pay was far better.", "I never said Trump banned it. I said the CDC banned it because they knew their reports would be ignored if it included those words.\n\nThey knew Republicans would get upset if they saw the word \"Science-Based\". So they are not going to include them anymore.\n\nIsn't that the definition of PC?\n\nAlso, I'm from the south. Every class I've been in had a Christmas tree. I have never heard of someone lashing out because they were told 'Merry Christmas'.\n\nBut I do know of stories of people being attacked because they said 'Happy Holidays'", "A sad day in America...", "GOOD.\n\nMaybe some other would-be illegals will take this as a fucking sign to not break our fucking laws.", "Oh no, our laws are being enforced! ", "Wasn't there a system in place a long time ago that allowed Mexicans to be contracted to work in the U.S for a limited time? How was immigration back then?", "No woman will ever love you.", "You're a sick fuck and are literally the reason why this country is going to shit. Thanks.", "For all the people here arguing “it’s the law”, I highly doubt most you follow this in your own life. I’m sure some of you at least drive above the speed limit or not completely stop at stop signs. You broke the law and should pay for it everyday right?\n\nIf this is your argument for this, I wonder how much you really believe “law is king”", "No, maybe you should google that really quick and 5 minutes of searching will tell you thats not true. You can apply for a greencard if you have been in the US for at least 10 years crime free and can prove it. Its called cancellation of removal, look it up.", "Are you prepared, right now, to move to a completely new country that you have never lived in for your adult life? Also your family isn't going. ", "And the law is absolute shit. This guy was a better \"citizen\" than a sizable chunk of the actual population.", "Tough shit, should have went back and tried, rather than dodging the laws of the country.", "Yeah of course a regular person should’ve known to do that and can afford to fly internationally.", "There's at least 20 more countries where you can live a very qualitative life. I wonder why people always aim for these 'top 5 destinations', just because others seem to do so.", "Two things:\n\nFirst, this is just an argument from pedantry. The fact that a more compassionate law would require some thinking on the details doesn’t mean it’s not a valid undertaking.\n\nSecond, why does there have to be some cut-off point? If you’re a productive member of society I think you should have some recourse by showing you’re willing to put some work into being a citizen. As long as you’re not committing crimes while you’re here, I think a path to citizenship should be created for you. \n\n> It's not a pleasant situation, but the more strongly we enforce our laws, the less this situation will even come about.\n\nIs that how this works with issues like drug use? Or do draconian laws only encourage an under-ground and illegal cartel to get this done? In the case of drugs it doesn’t work like you’d suggest. With immigration there’s the issue of [human trafficking](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Mexico), which is exploitative when workers have no recourse. \n\nIn the end, you have to understand what you’re incentivizing. You’re not going to slash the desire or demand for immigrants by making it more dangerous. All you’re doing is making a breed of hardened criminal willing to take the risk, and take the money and welfare of desperate people as their payment. ", "You can feel bad and realize that this needs to be done.", "It would have definitely been inconvenient but it would not have been that long of a process. A few weeks at most.", "He's pointing out the stupidity of the situation.", "I don't think he had kids at the age of 10. Probably shouldn't have raised kids in a country he isn't legally allowed to be in.", "> (..) as Obama instructed, and, under his administration, more undocumented immigrants were removed than any other president\n\nThanks for the info, I didn't actually know about it. I found [a fairly recent article giving details about this](\nhttp://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661).", "He didn't come here of his own choice. When he was a kid, he also had no idea about international law , immigration, etc. He grew up here without knowing much about his country of origin.Thats the problem. What would you do if someone today told you you were not a citizen? ", "They basically tell you applying for siblings is a waste of time because it takes so god damn long.", "Illegal immigration is only wrong in that it scares close-minded white people. It's not a problem, no. \n\nWhy? Because those same scared conservatives have made it nearly impossible to legally immigrate, especially for men like Jorge Garcia who didn't even come here by their own power. \n\nIllegal Immigrants are people just like you and me trying to survive and create a better future for themselves. I don't see how that's wrong. ", "Deportations happens every day, in pretty much every country in the world. ", "A lot of countries won’t allow you in if you have been deported from the US. I think Canada might be one of them unfortunately. ", "No, a cointry built by citizens that deports illegal immigrants.", "Couldn’t he have applied for legal residency before this happened?? Like idk maybe when he turned 18 or even before?", "I'm not trying to be racist, but yeah, Mexicans are some hard working mo fo's. If I was ever in a position to hire someone, I would want to hire an illegal Mexican. ", "He claims 4 deductions then barely pays a cent", "Because we set immigration limits?", "Hmm wonder why. Means his SSN is fake and pays no taxes. Of course the libtards will spin it.", "These kids are brought here illegally by their parents and therefore cannot get a green card. No green card means they can’t apply for citizenship. They would have to leave the country they spent their life in, wait 10 years, and then apply, which still gives no guarantee they will be granted a green card or citizenship. Rather than address this, the government just looked over them and kicked the issue down the road. \n\nOur government has failed them in two ways, first, by making it easy for their parents to bring them here illegally and let them live illegally, and second, by not coming up with a way to either deport them or make them citizens sooner. \n\nMaking them automatic citizens now without addressing the larger issue of illegal immigration would mean we will be back in this same position again in 10 or 20 years. \n\nMaking them citizens, or at least giving them green cards and putting them in a path to citizenship, is the right thing to do, but this needs to be coupled with whatever is necessary to prevent illegal immigration going forward, or we solve nothing. ", "Who said anything about this being racist?\n\nAlso, if you are finding that you've argued about something or someone as \"not being racist\" more than one time in the span of your entire life, I have to question who you're even trying to convince.", "Good job using MLK in an attempt to make your political point.\n\nPeople like you disgust me.", "He was here illegally, saying he is illegal is too much of a propaganda buzzword that dehumanizes him.", ">Humane and accepting\n\nThe US is not a charity and should not be run as one. ", "You’re purposefully misunderstanding me. The immigration laws in this country need to be changed in my opinion for a variety of reasons, and yes all of them stem from so called “emotion” because I do in fact care about the lives of these people. \n\nBesides, what are your high and mighty laws based off of if not emotion? What statistic or value makes it so obvious that we need to keep things the way they are? Nothing.", "I don’t think you know what a straw man is. I’m discussing my own views not misrepresenting yours. You asked me what an appropriate time to stop taxing them would be and I answered. \n\nEdit: I’d insult you but I’m pretty sure everyone reading this will be able to tell how much of an idiot you are", ">don't you think it's too late to drop literally everything to try and go and re-enter the country?\n\nPersonally, I would have done the same thing if I were him. But laws are laws, and it's a gamble he was essentially forced to take. Shitty situation. \n", "> intolerance\n\nWhere is this intolerance of which you speak? He's being deported because he was here illegally, not because he's Latino. Yes, this is a shitty situation, and yes, the immigration process in the US needs a lot of work, but I'm sick to death of people crying racism when there in fact is none. It only takes away from people complaining about real racism. The US isn't anti-immigration, it's anti-illegal-immigration, because it's, y'know, illegal. Both of my parents are immigrants who came here legally, and they're doing just fine.", "You are truly a horrible person", "This is very very sad but the fact of the matter is he isn’t an “undocumented” he was an illegal immigrant. Just because he may be a good man doesn’t put him above the law. No one should ever be above the law. ", "I understand what they are. My disagreement is in what they should be.\n\nI do not understand the concept of not allowing people to live somewhere just because of where they were born.\n\n>People spend years, over a decade sometimes, gaining citizenship.\n\nWhy? What is the difference between a person who born here and someone who was not?", "He did not have the agency to choose to immigrate illegally, since he was brought here when he was ten, and once here there was no way for him to achieve legal citizenship. Thus he is being punished for an act that he had no ability not to take, thus the law punishing him is unjust.", "Bitch can't you read? Don't you see all the hate in this thread?", "They look like nice people — and it looks like they’ve really benefited being here. A thanks would be nice.", "Apparently a gang of T_d users stormed in here in force to spray their venomous hate. ", "It actually isn't possible. His kids would be 20 today, and you can see in the picture they aren't.\n\nBut I agree, this guy is a fucking dumbass. He'd rather risk deportation and leave his family behind than register legally and then have a family here. 100% his fault. Nice job, ICE!", "Enforcing illegal immigration isn’t “intolerance”. This nation was built on legal immigration - people working hard to get in, and working hard to stay.", "No one. My parents love me and would never to think of trafficking me into a foreign country where I would always be an outsider and lie to me about my legal status.", "He didn't make a 100m yacht when he entered the United States. Be made one by having a family, creating connections with fellow neighbors and coworkers, and making a life. His 100m yacht, no, his entire life is being taken for no reason besides being too young to chose when he first entered. His parents fucked up by wanting a better life, but he did nothing and hurt nobody, just decided to keep living and make with the shitty situation. ", "He certainly broke the law, otherwise he wouldn't get deported.", "What doesn’t make sense to you about someone entering a country illegally, setting up residency and illegally residing in said country for 30 years? After “x” amount of years it’s all erased and they’re magically privileged to have a right to live in the U.S. while other hardworking immigrants do it the proper and lawful way? There is no one responsible for this family being torn apart than the individual that put themselves and their family in said situation. No one cares if they’ve lived here 1 month or 50 years. Abide by our laws. \n", "Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits. Most of these programs require proof of legal immigration status and under the 1996 welfare law, even legal immigrants cannot receive these benefits until they have been in the United States for more than five years.\n\nhttp://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/03/can_undocumented_immigrants_qu.html", "Not likely without an SSN.\n\nSee also:\n\nhttps://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/14/520205373/trump-paid-about-38-million-in-federal-taxes-in-2005-leaked-returns-say\n\n38 million in just one year. I doubt this guy paid that much if he paid at all.", "It's not but you are most likely a racist based on the language you choose to use.\n\nYou shouldn't worry so much about brown people, just because the color of the US might change doesn't mean it's character will. ", "the 10 year old knew what he was getting into lol.", "No SJW identifies as an SJW. You’ll have to do better than that.", "That was the goal of the Reagan amnesty but cuts in border protecti9n funding made it leaky as hell and here we are again. Unless the dems agree to the wall and an increase in border protection, amnesty just wont work. The dems will just dial back any increase in funding without the wall and the status quo will return plus a million new democratic voters.", "You are such a fucking retard. ", "Sorry, but you don't \"earn\" citizenship by working illegally and not paying taxes for decades. In what world is that ok?\n\nIts not massive intolerance. Its a huge fucking problem that no one has bothered to deal with for 20+ years, that now all of a sudden is left with a government who had no making in the problem to deal with. The question is, how did a 10 year old get in the country illegally? Why was he allowed to stay? Why was he registered through 8 years of school with no questions asked? Why has he worked illegally for 10-20 years without getting caught?\n\nIts not fucking intolerance. Its the exact opposite. There are thousand upon thousands of undocumented workers in the US. And a lot of them are here because their families came 10, 20, 30 years ago, uncaught, unchecked. And lived happy lives working illegally and under the table for decades, telling their families \"come on in, the water's fine.\"\n\nIts a pile of dirt that has been swept under the rug for decades, that now has to be dealt with.\n\nFWIW, I am myself an immigrant (from the US), and have multiple family member who have immigrated to the US from Latin American Countries. Yes, some illegally. But just living in a place, just existing there for a few decades does not qualify you for legal status. The country whose laws your parents broke do not OWE you anything. Thousands upon thousands of other people have immigrated to the US legally.", "Lol. I'm not sure an asian-american born in the 90s would be able to say this in the 60s.", "> Of course, then it's a difficult, slow, expensive process with zero guarantees\n\nKinda like entering illegally?", "Hey you dropped this \\\\", "What a hilarious idea. Trump can't be reasoned with.", "Oh okay, better not pay any taxes while he's here too right? Good thing none of this is his fault though", "What problem is solved by deporting this man? I’m just wondering how anyone or anything benefits from splitting up this family. \n\nAmerica now lost a consumer while gaining several people that will likely be on some form of welfare. This is a lose lose situation.\n\nWhy can’t there be someone that can actually use their brain and determine that this man shouldn’t be deported? \n\nAmerica is so fucked up and backwards that it honestly deserves to fall like past empires. ", "I mean I’m taking no side but it definitely has nothing to do with racism and more federal law. ", "You are missing a key point.\n\nMost of the land along to US/Mexican border is not owned by the federal government or by Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, or California, or by local municipalities. It’s owned by individuals and corporations. You need their permission to access their land. It doesn’t matter if you want to build a wall, install a camera, or drive across the property. ", "Yeah, Nairobi and Kampala wouldn’t be bad options in Africa. A bit higher cost of living, but fun places to live.", "He was brought at 10 years old spent most of his life here. This was his home, sure he probably has family in Mexico or wherever but sending him to a country he doesn’t know to people he has no connection with feels wrong ", "Liberal agenda pushing. ", "No, you’re really not.", "That would have been a better example. The eulogy quote is not espousing socialist doctrine.", "Easiest solution is to stop the practice of awarding citizenship for just being born on US soil. Other 1st world countries require the parents to be citizens, why not do that in the US too.\n\nIf these illegal immigrants knew that just hopping the border and giving birth would not provide citizenship status to that baby, they would be less likely to do it.\n\nThere's also the problem of maternity tourism where rich foreigners come to the US as tourists then \"accidentally\" give birth on US soil to give their child dual citizenship. The wealthy Chinese are exploiting the shit out of this in California and supposedly wealthy Russians are doing it too.", "It is illegal. ", "Just because it works doesn't mean it's perfect. Your friends must have had extremely positive experiences with the immigration system.", "Tell that to the marijuana supporters. Really, go in on and try it.", "No, America, a country built on laws that accepts immigrants who follow the proper order. And who deports people who havent", "The man being deported has already proven he has his life in order. Probably contributed more to the US than you cuntsleeze. ", "He only had 15 years to fill out the forms to become legal. under 2 presidents who were not tough on immigration but trumps bad because the guy never wanted to get legal. But no it's cool whatever ", "You don't remember anything about where you lived before you were 10? Really? \n\nAnd yeah, 18, or 20, or 25, or 30. Whenever really. If his parents could move here not knowing the language or having work then why couldn't he do the same? It would be extremely difficult, but at least he'd still be with his family. \n\n>is moving to a foreign country you don't remember and living there instead of your home an option for you? And hoping you can live here again one day.\n\nIf that's what I had to do to guarantee my family stayed intact I would do everything I could to make that happen", "Did he get out of paying sales, property, and excise taxes somehow?", "How? Help me understand. Are you saying Latin Americans aren’t allowed to immigrate to America at all? It sounds to me like they just don’t agree with the process as a whole so they try to get around it. \n\nEdit: well? ", "Leonardo DiCaprio ", "Probably should have applied for citizenship when he turned 18...\n\nderp derp", "but other countries are no shitholes", "30 years.... Plenty of time to apply for citizenship. Living here illegally for ANY amount of time is still illegal. I feel sorry for his kids in that their father was not responsible enough to take the appropriate steps to stay here. Now they get to grow up without him. \n\nThis is what happens when laws are ignored and broken. The consequences will catch up to you eventually. ", "Seriously? Did you really take that away from our exchanges?", "Way to deflect.\n\nThen proceeds you have the worst deflection ever. I love stupid humans, they're the funniest.", ">Now he has a much bigger problem\n\nAnd we'll be paying for the public assistance that his family will be applying for.\n\nYou people didn't think this through all the way did you? ", "No you’re right, that’s why they had books and the library....", ">Garcia's case is the latest example of immigrants who previously would have been allowed to remain in the U.S., but not now as the U.S. seeks to remove more immigrants. Garcia has no criminal record and pays taxes. He is barred from entering the US for at least 10 years.\n\n[Article](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2018/01/15/jorge-garcia-daca-deported-mexico-immigration/1033296001/)", "It sound like the problem here is that he came to the US illegally when he was 10 years old. You understand jack shit about illegal immigration at 10. You’re just staying with whatever family took you.\n\nAccording to some in this thread, he would have had to leave by the time he was 17 to not have to wait 10 years. Drop out of school, leave whatever job and family, pack your life up and move to a country you have at best questionable attachment to. Would he have a Mexican passport? Does the birth certificate still exist? Does he have family to help? Can he even find that family?", "Well pardon my confusion here but what you're describing is called a \"[path to citizenship.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_to_citizenship)\" Which doesn't exist in this country. So perhaps you could refer me to the law or program she made use of to do this, which the entirety of Congress is under the impression does not exist? The law that she apparently used to gain citizenship as an illegal immigrant without leaving the country first? Because if such a law does in fact exist, then there is a lot of unnecessary debate happening in Washington right now.", "You can get an ITIN (individual tax identification number) from the IRS to pay taxes.", "I never said you said it is. Just explicitly re-stating a fact.", "\"... but the law!\"\n \nThe law is discriminatory, outdated, and immoral, and needs to be changed. The capacity to do so is a part of the system, and our representatives are supposed to be pushing that sort of thing on our behalf.", "Because there's a finite amount of immigration that a nation can handle. Illegal immigration eats into this. \n\nSchools have student limits, they don't allow undocumented students to enter en masse.", "there is a middle ground between the two. for example, let people like these start the lengthy citizenship process while living in the US, so innocent families are not ripped apart.", "Wasn't he brought here when he was 10? hows that his choice?", "Obviously you aren’t reading the god damn links so your arguing shit that’s addressed in them.\n\nI have no interest in debating anyone that will continue to make arguments that are addressed in the links", "If he were to do it in this case, you don't think that that precedent being set would lead to multitudes of people expecting the same thing for their own \"special situation?\"", "Yeah you can’t really feel that bad for him. He won the lottery and pretty much has a magic island all to himself.", "Hahaha.", "Funny, from the thousands of issues and laws that are not properly enforced Trump chooses to deport Hispanics.", "No. He’s being punished for his parents breaking the law.", "The wait for applying is 10+ years and no guarantee What so ever i know people who have waited 15 years to get anything, its not just about going back and applying. I wish there really was a sure way to go back and wait to come back but sadly there isn't so people take the risk.", "Jesus Christ you people will justify anything as long as voter ID isn’t implemented. If these people don’t have IDs then they shouldn’t have any say in how the country is run. You can’t even legally drive without one.", "However, he did get to have children in the U.S. As sad as this is, it might be a comforting thought for him that his kids have citizenship here and never have to worry about being deported. His sacrifice for the burden of thought that he might get deported (and did) transformed into security for his children. ", "Those that think it's bullshit should try to gain citizenship in Japan or Australia or hell anywhere that is a destination nation. I don't blame any person for doing anything and everything to better theirs and their family's lives. That said, you've got to have a vetting system. Open borders won't cut it. ", "Okay, well I'm not gonna write another big paragraph, but I do have a few points. Yes, I do have a problem with the laws. I don't care what party brought them about, I'm not a person who is so partisan they can't recognize mistakes that have been made. But I think you are implying that because Democrats had a role in the immigration laws, that Republicans are now the only ones qualified to fix them. That's ridiculous.", "The people cheering for his deportation because he \"committed a crime\" despite that he was a child and he could not consent to a criminal act are the very same people that think if Bob Mueller digs into trumps finances and business before the Presidency well...he is out of line. ", "Who held control in Congress?", "> Say I pay you X but after taxes you only get 40% of X. Is that worth it?\n\nDepends on how much you're paying me, which is the point everyone above you is making. You're either ignoring their point, or you somehow disagree with it. Offer me $500,000 a year. If, after taxes, you told me that would \"only\" be $200,000 I would gladly take that job.\n", "I haven't heard good things.", "Except for when they enter the country illegally, then they are illegal.", "Huh?", "Yeap... immediate 10 year ban from applying. Also there is no process existent for him to apply to cross me back based on his kids. He can't get a tourist visa based on being already undocumented . Only way is in 10 years time, one of his kids applies for him as a relative of which he has to wait another 5-10 years if he is from Mexico to receive an answer. Then in that slight chance he gets qualified with a I-130, he has to wait another 5-7 years for a visa number to become available. So 20 + years at the very least. 2038 is realistically the closest possible year he can step back into USA. And that is if everything goes smoothly.\n\nHis American kids will grow up without a father. ", "But it's not their home. Many of these people don't even speak the language of the country they were born in. ", "Hint: there is no such mechanism ", "And someone was holding a gun to his head to keep him here for 30 years?\n\nYeah, no.\n\nHopefully he'll learn a lesson.", "At this point I would just find a way cross... fuck being without my family for 10 years+ ", " Melania should be next, she lied on her immigration form about working illegally in the U.S. ", "Home to what? He was ten when came here with his family. His home and family is here. Mexico is a strange country to him. How would you feel if you were in his situation? Please answer that question. ", "Most likely it would be 20 years.", "No but if I’m caught I don’t bitch about it. I take my lumps and move on.", "Yeah, and I'm a registered Democrat. I'm not sure where I really stand, because I'm only 20 and have no idea what the Hell is going on. I support a crackdown on illegal immigration, but I want to see the process for immigration become a more feasible option for more people in the world", "I would hope all they do is just ask, “did you intend to get married?” My honest answer would be, we did intend to get married at some point, but we never had any intended country to get married in. In other words we never intended to apply for a marriage visa when she applied for a student visa as we don’t know what part of the world we may be in 3 years from now. ", "You have to go back. ", "And he was not wrong.", "They get to make their own rules.", "No, this isn't right.", "It's not his home.", "And this is called a failure of empathy. ", "America, where you are the world leader in state sponsored terrorism but then play the victim card", "At 18 years old he did.", "the point\n\n\n\n.\n.\n.\n.\n.\n.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYou", "Sucks to be a criminal", "Living rent free.", "Fair enough. Deport them, and their kids can decide if they want to be refugees or go back home with their parents.", "It's his parents fault. Anyone with a brain cell will understand that so you might wanna stop huffing on that paint.", "This is what Trump and his racist supporters want. By \"Make America Great Again\", they mean before Civil Rights.", "Shame on ICE for punishing the wrong person", "What is this sorcery?!?!??! A well written and reasoned comment on reddit full of actual information in response to a question related to immigration during the Trump presidency!!! IMPOSSIBLE. In all seriousness thanks for the post! Always good to learn new things and I know fuck all about this topic. ", "A plaque on a statue isn't immigration policy. Ellis island had very stringent immigration screening processes. Washington himself said regarding immigration \"Except of useful mechanics and some particular descriptions of men or professions.”\n\nRegardless, the immigration landscape of the late 19th/early 20th centuries is not applicable to today. ", "You like pictures with no documented proof, pushing an obvious agenda?", "Life's a bitch ", "Taxation keeps the country you live in alive. It's a privilege to pay your taxes if you love your country. \n\nRoads, schools, firefighters, medicare. If you don't want any of those things move yourself, not your money, to an island.", "The reason for the comparison to slavery is that you implied that his actions were inexcusable because they were illegal. I then pointed out its often perfectly justified to do illegal things. That means that your argument of illegal = inexcusable is faulty. Its now on you to justify which types of illegal things are the ones that are inexcusable and which ones are not. \n\nThe reason this is unfair is that this person didn't come over on his own. If your argument was about people who came as adults, that would be one thing (I'd still disagree, but I admit its a different case), but this is somebody who didn't really have a choice to come here. Its really not right to force a person to leave at age 18 to leave the country by themselves. The dude was 10, he didn't ask to be put in this situation. Also, you don't know he was feeding off the government. For all you know he is paying more taxes than a lot of people. Its not right to advocate this guy be punished based on an accusation you don't even know is true.", "It’s like Ignorant white Americans forget they immigrated from somewhere once. Or are people that stupid to not know unless you are indigenous your family came from somewhere else. \n\nEdited to say whom I thought was stupid. \n\nI feel horrible for someone who’s lives in the US his whole life and is torn from him family. \n", "Yes, it is. I’m the child of 2 immigrants who have since become citizens. It took them 3-5 years plus several thousands of dollars to become citizens in the early 80’s. That’s when shit ran smoothly. \n\nPost 9/11 most immigrants say it’s not even worth it to become a citizen. You have a better chance of just jumping the border. \n", "His parents fucked him. Shitty situation. I feel bad for the guy", "Ah, that makes much more sense. Thanks for answering!", "It is. Don’t get me wrong, most arguments that people have of deporting people that were brought in illegally as kids, I can refute, the only one that I have trouble arguing with is, “but it’s not fair for those waiting in line”, which is true, and I agree. But by asking to deport someone in this situation just because it’s not fair, I guess is just heartless and really lacks humanity imo. Again thank you for actually caring enough to become informed. If you have any other questions about someone in a similar situation, please feel free to ask", "Between the drug war and our immigration policies in the US we really work really hard at destroying peoples lives and families", "Because if you allow that, then it becomes a competition to hide yourself and your kids away until the safe amount of time has passed to the point you are considered assimilated in the culture; that isn't a good precedent to set. Does it suck for everyone involved? Yeah, I imagine it does, but the price for not following through with the law is chaos down the road.\n\nThe government could forgive everyone in the country illegally right now and say that anyone who breaks the law going forward is being deported, but that just gives people hope that if they raise a stink in the future again, the same thing can happen one more time. It sucks, but at the end of the day, that is life. ", "They're trying to deport my brother in law as well. He's been in the country since the Cambodian civil war. He has a good job and pays his taxes. I don't know why they're doing this to people who contribute to society ", "Despicable. Just. Despicable. \n", "He could have left anywhere from between 18 and 40.", "The narrative of MLK fighting injustice and how many people see deporting a man who's been here for 30 years as an injustice as well? Ya, don't disrupt that or put any thought into your answer, just like all your other posts.", "No I get it. I just don’t think it was that great a point. ", "I agree that the laws should be reformed, someone who has lived somewhere for 30 years should be able to gain citizenship, but that's not the current situation for him, so anyone breaking those rules should be punished. The tax argument is a little debatable depending on who you ask, but potentially yes, his family could go with him? They're not being legally separated, just he is being moved,", ".....someone staying in the country illegally.....you literally just said it yourself.", "My Canadian mother was here illegally for something like 40 years on an expired green card before she finally applied for citizenship. They apparently aren't very strict when it comes to our northern neighbors.", "That's not what I'm doing\n\nEDIT: Just to clarify, I'm saying that we shouldn't degrade MLK to just a political tool", "Agreed like wtf is the incentive to move up. Granted a 5% raise in their tax rates woild be nice... Or we could close loopholes.", "Wow.I.feel.so.much.safer.now.thank.goodess.that.happened.", "I WAS A STRANGER AND YOU FUCKIN' WELCOMED ME\n\nmany blessings to this family. may your be reunited as soon as possible. and all families. jesus. heartbreaking.\n\nSAD RAGE!", "Nailed it. Caucasian and Canadian.\n\nI paid a lawyer to do the paperwork and only had to go to one interview. They asked a few questions, we showed them the pictures, did the biometrics and fingerprinting, then just waited for my card to show up.\n\nI'd actually point out to people when talking to them that I pretty much did everything they complain about illegals doing and was told it was different because I'm Canadian. Why exactly would it be different? Hmmmm I wonder. Three of these guys were people I was working with, while illegal. Like wtf....just own your racism already.\n\n\nEdit: Locked while I was typing out this reply to /u/ZuluCharlieRider so am putting it in here so they can see it.\n\n>You speak the same language\n\nSo did many immigrants I met from South America.\n\n>have (essentially) the same culture.\n\nCloser than a South American but I wouldn't consider Canada and the South to be essentially the same cultures.\n\n >Do you have a college degree? Grad degree? Trade school? Career? \n\nNo to all of those. I was working a shit job assembling/installing storm screen shutters.\n\nI know not everything is based on racism, I honestly do. This was though. These were people I worked with, people I knew through my wife etc. not random people who I had no idea how they thought. ", "I want you to explain your \"GOOD RIDDANCE' post. Stop evading questions.\n\n>If we don’t follow laws the US will become just like Mexico.\n\nSeriously, clarify that.\n\nEdit: I'll wait.\n\nEdit Edit: Typical deflection from the alt-right, only answering questions with other questions.", "If it takes you days or weeks to answer and my family is starving then I'm certainly breaking in your back door. Could you blame someone in that scenario?", ">he's had 30 years...\n \nDamn those 10-year-olds and their lack of common sense.", "If you use logic you will be downvotes on r/politics.", "I don't mean individually. As a group they shouldn't be counted as a minority. They are here illegal. They're not suppose to be here. Minority is race, religion, etc. Not status of citizenship. It makes no sense.", "Once again; not our problems. I know it wouldn't be easy. I know it would probably be a nightmare. But this is what his parents did to him. Not our country. Not the administration. His parents. Sure. Maybe asking him to go back after turning 18 is a bit harsh. So let's give him say 5 years? No? Not enough time? Okay. I can understand. 10 years sounds more than lenient to me. 30 years is just ridiculous and it's a slap in the face to people who come here legally. ", "You don't know how things work. People don't \"make up\" SS numbers... they buy them or steal them. And having your info stolen can fuck up your life.\n\nSo I have more empathy for victims of crime than the people who victimized them.", "Yeah, the same slow expensive process that all LAW ABIDING IMMIGRANTS have to go through. This guy cheated the system, cheated the people trying to do it legally, and cheated the tax payers. He then proceeded to let it ride for 30 YEARS instead of taking initiative to make it right. \n\nShitty situation but either olay by the rules or subject yourself to the law. ", "Lol but i thought the left said voter fraud didnt exist at all!", "All these things are case by case with variables like age, economy , and citizenship.", "Also, America has a fairly unique naturalization law. If I went to France and had a kid on French soil, the kid wouldn't legally be French - they'd inherit their parents' citizenship.", "You said it, man.", "ITT: People have no idea what the immigration laws are, what does this have to do about MLK and he is illegal deal with it", "This is what kills me. The one situation where a supply side approach would be effective and we try to plug a million holes to keep them out. I worked for a national restaurant chain that distributed fake ssn like candy. Tons of their employees have been deported but nothing has ever happened to the company. Shut them down or fine them out of existence and things would change in a hurry. ", "Right the old “Wall Street” bogeyman ", "He lived here illegally for 30 years with the full knowledge that he's not here legally. If he were a responsible adult he would have done something about it.\n\n#Deport Jorge", "100% agreed, I mean, trying to play the system and have a baby in thr u.s should absolutely be stopped, but using \"strain on tax payers\" as a justification is bullshit.\n\nDeveloped countried dont have to pay $4,000 to have a baby, fuck, \"undeveloped\" countries dont have to pay that.\n\nIts a seriously fucked up system and I cant believe that so many people have bought the \"anti-universal healthcate/anti-socialism (theyre not the same thing)\" koolaid, but thrn again, the anti-intellectual movement is clearly working. \n\nSAD!", "So we should drop the hammer and deport children who usually have no control over where they go because they're breaking the law to have a chance at a better life?", "So what. Get an immigration lawyer and get your paperwork in order and go back to your country to get the process started. I know a guy who only had to stay in Juarez for 5 days until his paperwork for a green card came through and now he works here legally and is on his way to full blown citizenship in the next decade or so. If you want it, it can be done.", "Doesn’t take that long. I was deported , married, kid, house. Took me 7 months. ", "Can he travel to the states? In all honesty I would just find a way back and live as an illegal again.", "> Why? What is the difference between a person who born here and someone who was not?\n\n...a person who was born here is a citizen and someone who was not is not?\n\nAnd making someone a citizen requires tons of documentation?\n\nare you serious? How can you state in the same comment \"I understand what immigration is\" and then act like changing citizenship is a simple copy/paste of a file on a computer from one country to another?", "His choice to be brought when he was ten? FOH with that bullshit", "Break the law and pay the consequences. ", "Why would you want to change a policy that a large portion of the country supports? ", "How unnecessary.", "System to let people like that stay has to be implemented after a serious increase in border security. Implement it beforehand and you have a massive influx of illegal immigrants incentivized by the idea that they can stay if they get in.", "When you get struck down (and you will) by a disease that is a direct consequence of your choices, like lung cancer, obesity, diabetes, heart failure etc, just remember that it's all on you, you are the one that is at fault and you have no one to blame. \n\nMore than that, I will offer you my contacts so you could contact me when it happens, and I will come down there in alabama and personally remind you that it was your fault. \n\n", "So commit identity fraud, a federal crime. Gotcha.", "Uh huh, I'm racist cause I don't support illegal immigration. I never said \"fuck that brown dude\" or \"Dumb bad hombres\" or some other language. You're just calling me racist cause it goes against what you believe. Again, good use of actually diluting what racism is. \n\nPS. My girlfriend is brown and a non-native. ", "is there anything wrong with this", "You clearly don't know us at our sub then. We also unironically like and support Soros.", "Un... no. I don’t see any emotion in my argument. Maybe you can point it out. \n\nMaybe if I reiterate, the logic will make more sense:\n\n1. The punishment is ok because the action was illegal. My response is that just because it’s illegal, that doesn’t necessarily prove that the punishment is appropriate, since that level of punishment would not be appropriate for all illegal acts. \n\n2. The punishment is ok because it’s an immigration consequence for an immigration violation. My response is that just because it’s in the same domain, doesn’t automatically mean that the severity is appropriate. \n\nNeither of these fully justify the response. That’s all. \n\n3. In another comment, someone else said that they believe that the severity fits the crime. They explained that their impression is that the punishment is severe but not excessive. That’s their right to believe and mine to disagree. At that point it’s mostly an emotional argument on both sides. I’m sure we could continue arguing logically but I think we said our piece. ", "Try to follow along. Just because someone is living illegally in a country against the law for thirty years doesn't give them immunity to the law.\n\nYou can say undocumented all you want, the term is ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT which is fairly self explanatory in both the person and crime.", "It's what happened, we can't change it. And it was indisputably not illegal. \n\nConquering and settling other people's land has been pretty standard behavior for humans since forever really. It's only recently that we've decided it's not as ok anymore.", "Yeah it didn't look right to me ether, my thought was worst case scenario... \"No one knows what it means, but it's provocative\"", "Well man, looks like we won't see this the same way and your views won't change. So I wish you well and that you never have to deal with this.", "MLK fought for decades against those American government policies that most brutalized minorities. He and those closest to him spent decades getting beat up, harassed, and surveiled by the same government thugs tearing this man away from his family. MLK attacked capitalism and recognized that it was built on the backs of the suffering poor in America and around. He recognized the inextricably connected nature of economics and oppression. People in his day also told him that it wasn't racist to enforce the law. He knew better.\n\nAll these facts are known to anyone with even a cursory understanding of his life and work. So it begs the question: are you a moron, or are you a liar?", "Are you a REPUBLICAN? GTFO, NAZI!!", "There is no legal process for poor people from Latin America, to have legalized status in the U.S.A\n\nThere is no leaving, and then apply to return\n\nIts not \"Difficult, slow or expansive\" \n\nIt doesn't exist ", "Considering he has lived here for 30 some years I can safely assume he was at minimum paying sales taxes when he injected his income back into the local economy for groceries and other goods.", "He could have left and applied with greater ease before having children.", "We tried that once. Some of us remember the promise, and the results.\n\n", "Shame on you for having an almost sociopathic lack of human compassion.", "Have any statistics or evidence to back that up?", "You do know that the alien and sedition acts are not a trump administration thing, you really should be mad at the Adams administration, damn federalists!", "The connection is entirely emotional, to pull at bleeding heart liberals heart strings.\n\nOP is nothing but either a liberal shill, or even worse, an illegal.", "They absolutely did but I don't think we should be punishing children for their parents' crimes.", "I believe you're talking about the one put in place because of an earthquake or something about 20 years ago? My stepdad came illegally in the late 70s or early 80s. ", "Good you can come to terms with it.", "Easy. Get ordered deported by an immigration judge, ignore the order for 25-30 years, get married, have a family, get arrested as a fugitive from your deportation/removal order, play the media and rights groups for sympathy, and get deported. Few people ask the question and fewer understand that how this systems works and how the person to blame for the heartache is the guy getting deported. Sounds harsh, but if you ignore a deport order you will get removed in most circumstances. \n", "> Plus, if he is paying taxes that means he's stolen a SSN,\n\nNo it doesn't. The IRS will issue you a Tax ID number if you don't have a SSN. They don't care about your citizenship status, they just want to get paid.\n\nThe funny thing is, undocumented immigrants pay over 11 billion dollars in taxes every year- they're not a drain at all.", "In California, they use 23 billion in services and pay 3 billion in taxes. \n\nhttp://www.washingtonexaminer.com/map-illegal-immigration-costs-california-most-23b-all-states-89b/article/2642257\n\nhttp://amp.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article148209019.html", "The story of the U.S. is still being written. My point is that many people are putting their faith in a failing system. We are all being hoodwinked. Not in a crazy conspiracy way. I'm talking about tribalism. It's tribalism run amok. ", "I mean somewhere legally hopefully", "My heart feels like there should be an exception for kids, but then I don't think it's right to encourage other parents to bring their kids illegally here because they know the kids are going to be able to get citizenship. My parents worked their asses off to move our family to this country legally and I personally won't ever agree to a law that invalidates the effort that they put in to do it correctly.", "Right. Am I going crazy here? People are acting like this was unavoidable.\n\nJust live where you're allowed to live, and raise a family where you're allowed to live. The vast majority of people seem to have no problem doing this, both in the US and Mexico.", "It's not about shitting on guys like him. What you don't understand is that there's no win-win in a system like this, but it exists for a reason. People don't naturally want to see others suffering in poverty or pain, but there's no economy in the world that can withstand an open-border policy. Laws exist for a reason, and it's to protect the country and the people living in it so everything doesn't crumble.\n\nYou're talking as if this is a one-off case and people need to stop being heartless. If that was the case nobody would argue you on this, and we'd all raise money. But let's say they do permit him to stay. Where do you want to draw the line afterwards? There are thousands of people in his situation, so if he gets to stay why shouldn't they? And then you have to ask yourself why on earth anyone would apply to enter the US legally and risk rejection when they can come in here illegally and get granted papers if they escape for long enough.\n\nIt's very easy to be empathetic and compassionate when him staying or leaving makes no difference to you. But if everyone was allowed to stay your taxes would rise and many more would end up battling poverty in the US. And it's not fair to pick and choose who gets to stay based on what story we feel for the most, and that's where the problem is. Either everyone is exempt from immigration law, or no one is.", "I bet it's really easy to stay in your country if your spouse and children are citizens.", "How do you stay In the US for 30 years and not attempt to get citizenship? \n\nEdit : read the comments then my phone died before I could say anything. I learned some things and it looks fucked to try and do what I asked. ", "K", "But it's the kid's responsibility to foot the consequences for the mistake of their parents? I take it you support a system like in North Korea?", "I'd say its got less to do with education then it does with the ingrained gangster life style in some of these community's that makes being a criminal the social norm and something to strive for. But these arguments literally have nothing to do with one another. ", "What consequences did the bankers who crashed our economy 10 years ago face? None? Right... \n\nGreat priorities you have there. ", "The notion that we uphold laws regardless of circumstance is an equally unsettling and depressing thought to me. I'm not saying I have a better system, just that I wish we could treat each other like human beings instead of numbers.", "For a volcano or earthquake, I think.\n\nalmost 20 years ago.", "Reality isn't their strong suit ", "He probably worked but with a fake SSN and has never been able to file an income return so in fact he's paid more taxes than a citizen with the same job because he doesn't get a refund.\n\n(This is what my father did for years and I'm using it as an example of what many immigrants do. I don't actually know what this guy did)", "Was he working and not paying taxes? Was his family unlawfully collecting government assistance under the false assumption that she's a single mom?", "You're arguing with leftists. \n\nThey operate solely on emotions. \n\nStop trying to find a rational answer.", "I've worked in immigration law, and many of our clients have had to do exactly that. You literally schedule a flight, apply for a tourist visa, and drive/fly across the border. He's fucked now, but he had 30 years to do this. ", "> He also thinks that even tho he never knew the consequences of his parents' actions, he still should suffer.\n\nAre you suggesting ignorance of a crime should free you of liability?", "Feeling are a massive consideration in the court room. Ever heard of a concept called justifiable homicide? You can kill someone if they abuse you enough. Thats feelings over rule of law. A just society isnt just without emotional consideration.", "You are missing the point. The federal government does not need permission to go onto land to stop illegal activity. If they don't want to sell the land they can deal with some drones and jeeps. ", "So why did they even bother? Seems like a terrible idea. ", "Trying to pull at your heartstrings ", "He is an illegal alien. Do you understand what the word illegal means?", "Believe it or not I once got my nationality canceled due to staying outside my home country for more then 10 years despite going back every few years. Which left me A-Patria, stateless in a foreign country unable to go back to see my family . After 2 years of burocracy going to court and spending 30,000 dollars, I got my pasport and nationality back. It is a nightmare and I feel very sorry for this man.", "His parents didn't deport him. Man lived his life in peace for 30 years, until Trump and his dumbfuck supporters fucked up his life. ", "And he did too. He's 40 years old. He's been an adult in the US for 22 years. Plenty of time to move back to Mexico and apply.", "A lot of people here forget that he broke the law for 30 years. Regardless of how he committed the crime (nonviolent taxpayer) the fact that he did not recognize his status and tried to right his wrongs means he did not feel any remorse.\n\nI have more remorse for people who turn themselves in then the ones who wait until the cops come then say \"I'm sorry\"\n\nIts a shame about the kids, but its their fathers fault for putting them in such position. ", "Thats not a \"home\". A home is where your loved ones are.", "Ya but hes not one of those “bad hombres”. They could have let this one go. But no, part of my tax money this year is going toward his plane ticket “home”.... like wtf. Why?", "Don't give a shit, next time write posts that don't make you sound like a complete tool.", "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled m.... never mind.", "what do you mean? we're talking specifically about their status as either legal or illegal, calling them illegals in this instance is perfectly normal. do you think its offensive or something? people are so sensitive.", "He was here illegally ", ">all you're doing is being mad that there are laws.\n\nNo...I'm mad that the laws A. don't protect anyone B. destroy families C. are nothing more than nationalistic pride flexing our xenophobic muscles.\n\nA child brought here at age 10 isn't at fault. They get to stay. End of fucking story. Don't want more of them in here? Build the fucking wall if you want. Hire more guards. I don't care. But don't destroy the lives of those who are here now. Show some motherfucking compassion for fucks sake. You're not true americans if you think deporting these people is good or necessary. Try compassion for once in your selfish lives.", "On MLK day US Authorities enforce the laws of the land because the law shouldn't change just because your story is sad. ", "Just as was your first comment.", "I would say the difference between the USA and Japan isn't the strictness of immigration law, rather the strictness of enforcement. The real problem is that in the USA immigration law is so poorly, loosely enforced that you end up with cases like this where people are in the country illegally, for decades, creating these extremely tough circumstances. \n\nIf the law was properly enforced from the beginning, these situations would never have arisen and would never arise. ", "Seriously? You’re acting like he personally hunted this man down just because he was hispanic and had him deported. If you’re here illegally you run the risk of being deported. Countries need immigrations laws I’m sorry if that hurts your feelings. ", "Immigration has been around way before Trump was born. Blaming this Hispanic man's 30 year problems on Trump is crazy talk. There is a process in place to become a legal citizen that has been around since Roosevelt. I am not a Trump fan, but maybe pick another president to blame.", "Dad makes 10 year old son help him rob a bank. 30 years later the kid goes to jail for his dad's crime. Yeah, we're supposed to forgive the kid.\n\nI see your bag of dicks and raise you a couple bushels of shitholes.", "That's what he gets for not taking any steps to become legal in the past 30 years.", "But he was a minor...", "How so? And try to come up with something better than \"Disneyland isn't a country.\" They both have borders that the collective owners of those areas have a right to determine who gets to cross them, and what the punishment should be for violating those borders.", "RIP the Dream", "He had decades to apply for legal citizenship. My family came to the US the legal way so I fell no empathy for people who can here illegally. ", "I believe this is whats referred to as a “clear path to citizenship”.", "Breaking the law is not “intolerance”. A lot of people other than “hard working family men” get deported. So much unchecked emotion in that comment. ", "Yes, I understand that that's what you mean. I, personally, have very few memories of my life from earlier than 10 years old. I would certainly not call a place I never even visited since I was a boy of that age \"home\". I would assume Mexico would be as much \"home\" to you or I, as it is to him, is what I mean. I don't know the details of his story. Maybe he has family members who he is somewhat familiar with, when he gets there. Maybe he's just being sent to a foreign country that he knows nothing about and doesn't really have anyone. Maybe something in between. Just doesn't sit well with me", "What is not FAIR is expecting ownership of someone else's property and services. Are they your slaves? Just because you don't like something doesn't not make it fair. I'm sorry that shit sucks for us bottom feeders, but they EARNED their fair share. What is truly horrible is that we a republic have elected \"leaders\" to fix this \"unfairness\" instead of correcting the issue. Reducing all taxes on it's Middle and Lower class individuals. But even then I'm not happy. \n\nCause, Taxation is Theft. ", "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_flight\n\n>A 2006 article in The Washington Post gave several examples of private capital leaving France in response to the country's wealth tax. The article also stated, \"Eric Pinchet, author of a French tax guide, estimates the wealth tax earns the government about $2.6 billion a year but has cost the country more than $125 billion in capital flight since 1998.\"[6]\n\nYou should familiarize yourself thoroughly with the concept of incentives and disincentives.", "Ok how about 20 years? Your point is invalid. ", "You are correct that he is barred from applying for ten years. The last naturalization ceremony I attended, the immigration officer estimated wait times after application from Mexico was averaging about 8 years. He’s got a minimum 18 years until he can legally return :(", "Most non-citizens pay taxes, unless they work for cash (most of them get paid via checks, though). Some citizens work for cash and avoid taxes, too. And many citizens avoid taxes. Almost everyone who buys things online is guilty of avoiding some sales or use taxes. ", "Temporarily for 10 years minimum ", "For kids who had no choice, yeah, that sums it up and also your xenophobia and bigotry. \n\nThis is why Republicans have to use narrative shifting from positive terms like DREAMERS to negative terms like DACA. And it works on halfwits like yourself. Either you’re willfully ignorant, or just a straight up piece of shit like the Republican representatives. \n\nBut fuck everyone else, you and your kid got yours.", "I feel you. It's frustrating that people like that make me want to recede into an echo chamber just so I don't have to keep reading or dealing with their trolling and/or serious unreasonableness.", "Don't hurt him, it's the best he can do.", "This is sad, but I'm not really sure why it is important to note that this occurred on MLK day. Just seems like reddit is constantly trying to push the anti-Trump agenda. ", "Vietnam? ", "So two thigs:\n\n1. you have a strong opinion on something you don’t know?\n\n2. you’re against people consuming weed?", "Lol your edit and downvote are so silly. If a group of people all do the same thing individually, that makes them a whole. Just because in your mind it makes logical sense that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes because people \"don't just go out of their way to pay taxes\" doesn't make it true. It just shows that you know nothing about taxes in the U.S.\n\nYour simplistic line of argumentation follows this formula: illegal immigrant-->not compelled by law to pay taxes-->they don't pay taxes. Looks good on paper, and I will admit that it makes sense. But it doesn't correspond with reality. \n\nI will break it down for you. In order to live you need a job. In order to get a job you need a SSN or Tax ID number. If you have one of those things and have a job, you are paying taxes.\n\nIf the majority of illegal immigrants follow this pattern, then that means illegal immigrants pay taxes.\n\nDo you understand?\n", "Yeah these leftists always love to play the \"B-B-B-BUT YOU MUST BE RACIST\" card if you say you want illegal immigrants to be deported. It isn't a matter of race at all, in fact if the guy is a contributing member of society I would love for him to be in the nation, we need people like him. But do it legally like my ancestors did. Why should they have to work their asses off to get a green card when douchebags like this just hop the border? ", "I won't be entering any countries illegally or dropping my kids off there so I should be good. Cheers", "> yeah and the \"except on paper\" bit comes from the very reasonable fact that marriage does not make you a citizen\n\nThe marriage only makes it more heartbreaking, but he was raised here. He didn't have a say. Now his life is being torn apart. How the fuck is that justice?\n\n>it's kinda how laws work. Either you uphold them or you don't.\n\nBullshit. Laws can be bent, punishments can be altered. A family man being torn from his life over something his parents did over 30 years ago, then being BANNED FROM HIS HOME FOR 10+ YEARS sounds like a good time to exercise some damn human decency. This is why the only arguemnt y'all have is \"the law must be followed when it's not against me, no matter the circumstances\"\n\nThis is a simple break in morals. You and yours seem too prescribe the fullest punishment under the law unless it's your own friends or kin, ignoring the plight of others in this country to follow his every whim. Myself and others on the left are for compassion, rehabilitation, common fucking sense. For example: this dude should have a path to citizenship WITHOUT BEING TORN FROM HIS FAMILY AND WAITING 10+ YEARS TO SEE HIS HOME AGAIN in a country he's a foreigner in.\n\nDo you have a family? How can any man see a decent, law-abiding (INB4 \"illegal\", you know what I mean) man being torn from his young son and daughter for something that happened to him 30 years ago? How is that justice, how is it moral?", "But why would he? He would be uprooting his kids from the lives they have in Detroit and taking them to a country full of corruption (more kidnapping/bribing-wise than the corporation/politician dynamic we have in the US). Here they have the opportunity to go to college and do something useful with their degree. Though it might be comforting in the short-term, he would be robbing them of countless long-term opportunities.", "So why is it fair that those who actually obey our laws and spend that time and money to apply get shafted while people who come illegally get to stay?\n\nWe need to enforce our laws. Period.", "Oh yeah? I don't have a criminal record dicknose.\n\nYou can eat two bags of dicks.", "Sorry, it seems you left the rest of the quote in order to twist his speech into something it was meant to argue against in the first place.\n\n>\"...These are the people who will riot. And in spite of the pleas for nonviolence, they often fall on deaf ears out of the frustrations of poverty, out of the frustrations of being left on the periphery of life, pushed out of the main stream of life. Out of the heaving desperation surrounding their days, they often end up seeing life as a long and desperate corridor with no exit sign. And so it is necessary to develop massive public works programs. It is necessary to develop massive training programs. It is necessary to lift the minimum wage and extend the coverage so that all of God’s children will have the basic necessities of life.\" -MLK\n\nHe was talking about the institutionalized racism the government used to oppress the poor African Americans in urban who had been beat up their entire lives, and are rejected when hoping to provide for themselves, their families, and their society. He did not mean they were willingly 'harming' society. He said that because of this denial of opportunities, the oppressed will push to the extremes to overcome inequality. Unfortunately, many immigrants today are denied human rights and opportunity, not unlike the African Americans of then. These people didn't belong because they weren't allowed to belong.\n\nUse context when you try to quote something", "He grew up almost entirely in America why the fuck should he be forced to move to a country he has no relationship with and move his family.", "Never heard the phrase \"cuntsleeze\" before. Thanks.", "> The idea that MLK supported a right wing agenda is insane. \n\nHe was a religious man, what do you suppose his thoughts on gay marriage were? Or abortion? Or fluid genders? I certainly wouldn't call King a Republican - but let's be honest, King wouldn't recognize the Democratic Party if he could see it now. ", "It definitely takes longer than that. Standard is around 14 months.", "You could create a system through which those living in the us illegally could pursue citizenship without being deported. Easy done. Who gives a shit if it encourages illegal immigration, aren't they already coming here?", "I'd probably look into moving to Canada with the family. ", "Guy commits a crime daily for 30 years, but you liberals get upset when he is finally brought to justice because \"he got away with it for a long time\" and \"he has kids\".\n\nBleeding hearts the lot of you.", "I dunno man, you’d have to tell us the answer to that one...?", "No. He had all that time to go back to Mexico and apply for citizenship. We have laws. \n\n", ">He has to leave the country and apply back in ten years with no guarantees of being allowed back in\n\nYou realize that the whole \"apply back in ten years\" thing only applies after he is caught. So had he left before he was caught, some time in the past 30 years, he could have immediately applied for citizenship without waiting. Not saying he would have gotten in then, but he wouldn't have had to wait 10 years.", "Laws are not enforced on a holiday?", "I can't believe there are really people like you out there. ", "Marriage to a USC is not the only option. Even in removal proceedings an immigrant may still qualify for other forms of immigration relief. I’m really curious to know the details of the case. Wonder why they didn’t try to file for cancellation of removal. ", "He wasn't talking about Trump, he was talking about the man that was deported. The guy you replied to is on your side...", "> to get back to his home in Mexico and to apply to come to the USA legally.\n\nI think this is the point I'd like to emphasise - Lets say you're a 5 year old moving to Japan and when you're 25 you decide to make the hard decision to leave because you want to be legal. Which city in America will you go live in for 10 years? Where is your home? You've essentially never lived there - I moved when I was 5 and whilst I know I was born in New Jersey, I remember basically nothing about it. I'm not really any more at home there than I would be anywhere else in the US. So I think your point about \"going home\" needs to be really thought through in terms of what \"home\" means here. A home isn't just a country. You make some good points here about family etc. \n\n> \"If you're illegal, just have a baby and you'll never be deported\".\n\nAgain, that's not what DACA is about. It's about the child getting to stay, not the parent. If he qualified under DACA it would be because he came here as a child, not because he had a child whilst he's here. The fact he has a child just makes this more distressing, but it's not the relevant political/legal point. ", "Ah yes, inherited sins. The only country in the world that practices this is North Korea.", "So he had 30 years to get his citizenship and didn't. Shouldn't procrastinate.", "He was here for 30 years and didn't apply for citizenship over that time..", "Or they could get a job and support themselves.. they live in Detroit. I’m sure you can find an apartment there for like $100 a month. ", "They addressed it. I didn't say they made it perfect, just they did address it which you claim they did not do. and it was not was what needed while one side made it EVEN worse.", "Dude shut up, this would've happened under Clinton and it did happen under Obama. Not saying I'm a trump supporter but I'm not gonna go around bashing him just to get myself off ", "No, you’re wrong.", "I’m not saying they should be, I advocate for changes in immigration laws . That starts with advocation from average citizens ", "\"-Makes jokes about nuclear war on twitter.\"\n\nI chuckled a bit and then honestly realized yes our president did that.....", "Except You're Litterally Who the comment was for.\nOnce his parents brought him in illegally can can't apply for citizenship.", "Hey, if businesses can just come and go as they please, it's only fair that other people be able to come and go as they please, right? You know, since businesses are people these days.", "I appreciate that you're open minded about it. The problem with this one guy is that its difficult to make case by case exceptions, looking into everyone's story to see if they should stay. The departments would have to be so huge to make that work properly. Unfortunately its just difficult to make individual exceptions in a fair way when you're talking about millions of people. Beyond that, rules are rules.\n\nWe just can't keep providing so many incentives to enter and stay illegally. We can't make it so if you come here illegally, as long as you have kids, establish a life, you create some situation where it becomes impossible to enforce your status...that's wrong. It does suck, but allowing that encourages people to do it the wrong way when there are no shortage of people waiting to do it the right way.", "If your parents sneak you into Disneyland without paying, is it the Mouse's fault when you get kicked out?", "We need to reform the system so we're not destroying families. It's unconscionable to do this. We have to vote out the Republicans in 2018 and 2020, then we can make real changes.", "This world is a cruel place.", "Why is it dumb? You entered the country illegally, wether it’s your fault or not your immigration was not accounted for. ", "You described Communism: Taxation until luxury goods are no longer affordable by anyone. There is no sane or educated person that would agree with you, so I'll take my downvotes and leave -- you have nothing to offer in a discussion.", "Yeah, I guess it's useful only to view federal legislation as a legal minimum (we are a federation as well). We have the same thing going on with the recent refugee influx, and, given 16 states, there are 16 ways to handle implementation, not to speak of state level legislation and community level protocols. Depending on what you see as desirable, different state level policies can produce results of varying desirability. \n\nI guess federal law is a useful benchmark here though, since US law appears to mandate minimum entry bans, while German federal law mandates family reunion. That appears like a pretty big difference to me.", "Try to move to Canada or Mexico and tell us our laws are unjust. We have some of the most relaxed in the world ", "Immigration status isn't a protected class.\n\n>The lack of empathy...\n\nPeople on the left take empathy too far. Extreme empathy is how we got the Soviet Union; just an example... in this case, your empathy will lead us to having open borders, and that would be a disaster.\n\nEDIT: To add to this before it is inevitably buried... NO other Western nation has this kind of fucked up immigration system where we're supposed to just excuse illegal behavior because we have empathy for them. If this guy were in Canada, he'd be gone. Germany? Gone. And in Mexico... he'd be put in jail, and then deported.", "Bahahahaha I love it. You guys need some spicy memes.", "My father was in the military and I was born abroad in germany. I’m a us citizen.\n\nIf this guy was a criminal then deport his ass. But if he’s been in America since he was 10. Then let him stay so long as he’s working and paying taxes.", "I don’t even need to respond. Oblivion covered it just perfectly", "He was never legal to apply for it. ", "He was getting deported no matter what. Can't apply while you're already here already.", "Or his family can go with him. Nothing is keeping them here. At 18 he should of sought to become a citizen. After 30 years, no excuse.", "The Philippines has an extraordinarily long wait period. His chances are slightly better, but not by much. ", "What sort of ID would he have at the age 18, when he moves to Mexico? He would have no documented history of living in Mexico. He would practically have no chance of getting a residential permit in the USA.\n\nI agree with your second part, that kids brought in by undocumented parents should be given the opportunity to go through proper channels after they turn 18, with the guarantee that they will get a residence permit if they don't have any juvenile criminal history.", "Cheers", "No, but it what was implied.\n\nTaxation is Theft.", "I hope he makes it back. I know someone who lived in the US 17+ years illegal, got caught flying back from Puerto Rico and got shipped home immediately. 5 months later he moved back to the United States and as far as I know still lives there. ", "Nah you missed the point. \n\nWe are all Humans... \n\nBorders are lines drawn in the sand that we kill over for some reason?? It's all bullshit and its bad for ya. ", "[They have 40% of the wealth not \"more than 50%\"](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/06/the-richest-1-percent-now-owns-more-of-the-countrys-wealth-than-at-any-time-in-the-past-50-years/?utm_term=.6c295c3fff27)", "Nah didn't you learn in Gov 101 that the president obviously makes, passes, AND enforces the law????? ", "guess what you ILLEGALLY come to the us so it’s illegal", "I think El Salvador means \"The Shit hole\" in Mexican. /s", "He can never come back \n\nNot under current law ", "A child can't petition their parent until they're over 21.", "Don't care. Laws are laws.", "Yeah I feel you it sucks for the wife and kids but dude had 20+ years as an adult he should have taken care of it before having a family.", "It's pretty fucking blatant.\n\nOr do you need CURRENTYEAR man to yell it at you to get it?", "Agreed", "Agreed. Not his fault he was brought to America, I agree. I responded to another commenter on this very point in more detail.", "You're deluded. Illegal immigrants are not harmless. \n\nIf he has paid taxes, he is at the very least committing Identity theft. His very being here is a criminal act, and if he didn't pay taxes (and therefore didn't commit Identity theft), he's being a drain on the government. He is a criminal, plain and simple. His parent's may have committed the initial crime, but he has had plenty of opportunities to leave the US and apply to become a citizen. ", "> ...a person who was born here is a citizen and someone who was not is not?\n\nWhy?\n\n>And making someone a citizen requires tons of documentation?\n\nWhy?\n\n>How can you state in the same comment \"I understand what immigration is\" and then act like changing citizenship is a simple copy/paste of a file on a computer from one country to another?\n\nWhy is it not?", "Wish I had gold to give you. I’m honestly shocked by the lack of sympathy I’m seeing here. It’s disgusting.", "TBH only death is certain", "\"Someone staying in the country illegally\" would be an improvement in my opinion.", "You mean the country he hasn’t lived in since he was 10 yrs old?", "Yes. And now he is 40, and has had 30 years to work towards citizenship but didnt ? What is it u are mad about. It is a sad thing but he never put in any effort for citizenship but instead decided to take his chances and they caught up to him.", "When the vast majority of illegals are \"people of color\" (hell plenty of mexicans are whiter than people from Europe around the Mediterranean).\n\nDo you call actual spanish spanish white? What about italian?", "Great. So let’s call tax evaders “illegals”, because that’s illegal, too.", "I'm just looking for details, if he had a job, a family, was a productive member of society and was brought here as a child I would assume there is a path to citizenship... That he had 30 years to pursue. I feel like some key details are missing. Why didn't he become a citizen, was he denied.. Like what gives. There is some definite spin going on", "There's going to be more about this story we aren't being told. ICE can't just up and deport anyone. They have to go through immigration court. Why did they pick him up?", "Don't have to actually I don't live in a shithole", "That's a cliche that's been beaten to death for years.\n\nBeing a Mexican doesn't make you a hard worker. I live in Southern California and there are millions of Mexis down here.\n\nThey're no harder working than anyone else I've ever worked with or hired.", "I didn't even think about that. You have a very good point. Police are working today, but is ICE?", "It took my father 7 years to claim my mother, my brother and I, it’s a really long process ", "Just because a land mass lacks humans doesn’t mean it’s uninhabited, plenty of organisms here before humans arrived. ", "It's like that for every country. Even worse for some countries like Germany and Switzerland. ", "I'm seeing misinformation everywhere. The 1% don't pay 45.7% of all income taxes, they pay 39.5%\n\nAnd the 1% don't own over half the wealth, they own around 40%\n\nhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/06/the-richest-1-percent-now-owns-more-of-the-countrys-wealth-than-at-any-time-in-the-past-50-years/?utm_term=.210886da943f", "This is almost equally baffling as a foreigner. How do you register with the tax authorities or even get a bank account without valid residency status?", "I mean make the system easier to become an american citizen. We dont NEED more central/south Americans but if they want to come here, lets let them do it the right way.", "He wasn't, which is a great example of why terms like \"illegal immigrant\" are meaningless and stupid. They are a result of an arbitrary law we wrote that doesn't actually reflect right from wrong. \n\nIf law means everything to you, Columbus did no wrong. But just because the native americans weren't already practicing our customs doesn't mean it isn't hypocritical for us to throw fits when other people want to come here today. ", "Is that a UBIX reference ?", "I said illegal because he was an illegal immigrant, however, I do respect what you are saying", "I don't get the difference between the two.", "It's the new generation of \"everyone gets a trophy\" sorry these people , not all of them sure, spent a lot of time effort and money to be where they are today. You can't drop out of school, work at burger king and sit on Reddit and bitch about how rich people don't pay enough. ", "He was ten years old when his family illegally brought him to the country. It's safe to assume he didn't have the independence to refuse them, or to return until he was much older, at which point he'd have to surrender his entire life's work to do so. His family is entirely at fault, but it seems unnecessarily cruel to implicate him.", "Really? Deductions have nothing to do with FICA. You think he's here undocumented and making a large amount of money? As a documented immigrant he'd be in line for EIC and other credits. The vast majority of undocumented immigrants pay into the system and get nothing in return and surely aren't avoiding taxes by claiming too many deductions. ", "I bet you’ve never had to make a decision that hard in your life. I’m glad you’re confident in how imagine you would handle the situation.", "Shipping more jobs to Mexico, classic.", "i think where we differ is my sadness at seeing a family torn apart is greater than my desire to see him \"pay\" because \"it's the law\". i'm okay with that.\n\nhave a nice day.", "Hang on, this is really complicated. Can you wait here while I get my notepad? ", "The billionaire is probably employing thousands of people, plus has a few dozen personal assistants. Your parents would probably blow an extra couple thousands saved on tax on a trip to the Caribbean creating zero wealth or benefit for your country. It's sad and might seem unfair, but it plays a role in the macroeconomics.", "There to protect it's citizens freedom. It is sad, and as other people have said he has a better chance since he left willingly to come back. Would you prefer open borders?", "I’m from the United States with parents who are undocumented so I do know a lot about this subject. In fact, it may seem easy to people that have resources to get proper documentation, I can bet for a fact that this person did not have the resources to throw thousands of dollars to get proper legalization efforts. ", "> I honestly feel ashamed of our government. No other feeling. Just shame \n\nYou are far, far from alone. ", "His crime is staying illegally, his parents may have brought him here first, but at any point he could have left again and tried to return legally.", "Whats wrong is that it's not his home, he hasn't left this country for 30 years, and he is now displaced from his children. ", "Playing devils advocate here but I'd say it encourages other parents to not do the same thing with their children.", "obama deported more illegals per month, every month of his presidency, than trump has. don't fall for the narrative, they're both just as bad.", "You do have the freedom. Leave. No one is stopping you from avoiding your duty to pay tax. All you have to do is leave the country. But if you want to keep the privilege of living wherever you do, then you do your duty as a citizen and pay your taxes. ", "Using that logic you shouldn't punish anyone with children since it will affect their lives. And specifically it would effectively open the borders completely.", "Damn.", "You're going to get downvotes, but this guy knew the risks and probably thought about them daily. If at any time before today, he had played the game the right way, he wouldn't be getting deported.", "It's [not possible to apply for a green card while in the US](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/fiance-marriage-visa-book/chapter11-1.html) (\"adjust status\") if you entered illegally.", "Ain't 10 forever, at 18 he had a choice. He chose to break the law.", "Nor should it be.", "\"They let you\"", "\"Everyone I disagree with is a racist.\" -- an intro into politics for idiots.", "It’s easier to immigrate to America legally than it is for almost every other first-world country on earth.\n\nThis man would never get approved by a country like Sweden, for example.", "It’s okay, he’s leaving for a better place. What a shithole America has turned into.", "It’s all about optics. Obama deported a shit load of people and we never got these sob stories. ", "I've worked with many illegals. They all got huge tax refunds by claiming a bunch of dependents. They'd usually claim over 5 dependents. \n\n\nFunny story. A brother of one of the illegals I worked with, who was also illegal, got his stolen SSN flagged somehow. Turns out that whoever the real person was, they owed a shitload of child support, so the government started garnishing his wages by a large amount.", "Not all of them. One even had to go back to his home country and wait to come back. In the end they all came here and busted ass like I’ve never seen a human being bust ass. They’re ALL....every single one of them...in better situations than I am. They have more money. They have more “things”. They’re more secure. I could go on and on.\n\nThere’s no reason it should be harder for anyone else...especially not enough to justify just saying fuck the system and then doing what they want only to cry about how unfair it is when they get caught.\n\nEdit: just in case, 2 were from Western Europe, three from Eastern Europe, one from Guatemala, one from Peru, one from Brazil, two from good ol’ Mexico.\n\nOne of the Mexican guys is a contractor who could literally buy me straight cash. The guy who had to go home was from Western Europe. He came back, got a job at a fucking Burger King and from there after about ten years he drives a new car every year or so, owns his own home, and had “boat” money. The only thing they all share in common is that they worked so hard I wondered how they could physically pull it off. Those guys are more “American” than I am and I was born here. I have nothing against immigrants, at all. ", "Good. He had 30 years to become a citizen and didn’t do it. ", "In your country, if I came in illegally and just stayed for a really long time, would your government just grant me citizenship by default? I highly doubt it.", "Actually, in reality they use them MORE than the rest of us, since the social constructs they used to enrich themselves at the expense of others, like the courts and the law and the tax code and the interest rates being kept low to promote growth all work in their favor, as does the government funded infrastructure (roads, ports, internet) that allows them to get their products to the mass market and profit, and the military that protects their international interests. All that shit costs far more to the taxpayer than things like medicare and food stamps and old age pension.\n\nThe police aren't there to protect poor people from other poor people, they're there to protect the rich from the masses.\n\nBut I wouldn't expect some fucking accountant to understand that, because to them the world is just numbers on paper and any tax is stealing from the rich to pay for poor people who can't afford accountants.", "They're literally breaking up a modern day family because of a 30 year old decision. Are you even listening to yourself?", ">any person who enters and is here without following the ~~proper procedures~~ law.\n\nYou can dress up a pig and put make up on it, but it's still a pig. Undocumented is a bullshit way of saying illegal in the same way that waste management technician is a bullshit way of saying garbage man.", "I'm aware of that. But assuming he did, which I'm not even sure he could prove all his taxes were being paid, he's still here illegally, and thus is at risk of being deported, which is what happened. \n\nWe don't make a big deal if people lose their right to drive if they get caught driving without a license, or having a gun without a permit. Even if they didn't do anything wrong with said car or gun, they still are breaking the law being not being properly licensed.", "When the US issued amnesty in the 1980's it was a one time process and we wrote new laws to crack down on illegal entrants as part of the deal. No one was to be allowed to use unlawful status as a stepping stone to a green card. ", "Should send his wife and kids with him!", "Breaks my fucking heart", "Most likely they came because they ran out of options over there. If you need to feed your kids, as a parent, you will do what it takes to make sure they make it another day. Don’t shame them for doing what they thought was right. Just making it passed the week was probably a blessing. ", "Country of origin matters", "How many years did you have to patch that hole instead of watching it sink.\n", "Blame that on all the cucked presidents before that turned a blind eye to the law being broken, not the ones actually following it.", "> He didn't have a say. Now his life is being torn apart. How the fuck is that justice?\n\nIt's not justice, it's the law. Nobody's seeking some sort of retribution here. The guy is not a citizen. As someone who is not a citizen, he does not have the rights of a citizen. He does not have the freedom of a citizen. He has to go throguh proper processes like everyone else. It's not his fault he's not a citizen, but that doesn't mean anything.\n\n>You and yours seem too prescribe the full\n\nMe and mine? Who are me and mine? You don't know anything about me except that I think that people who aren't citizens don't have the same rights as citizens and that I don't think citizenship should be so easy as getting married, something anyone can do to anyone else without any justification as it is. \n\n>Do you have a family?\n\nI have family who have gone through a significantly long legal process to gain dual citizenship to America the right way, yes. And I would be remiss if I did not say that it would be exceptionally wrong and unfair for someone else to be allowed to \"jump the line\" so to speak and get all those processes rush-ordered simply by getting married.\n", "I think every human bean in the world should get a million dollars and a unicorn :D", "Why cant his family just move with him?", "i really hope so", "This statement presumes soooo much about this person’s life it hurts my brain. Nuance my friend. Learn it.", "The way I see it, anyone who was brought in when they were below the legal age of consent shouldn’t be held responsible for illegally moving to America. If they (or legal residents of the same age) cannot legally consent to one thing, they cannot legally consent to other things.\n\nNow, having put some more thought into this since I started typing this comment, this “statutory” illegal immigration would mean that they were brought here without consenting, and thus were brought here against their will. This would likely mean that, not only could their parents be deported, but they could also be tried for human trafficking of children.\n\nSo on the one hand, if immigration law was like this, it would help those who were brought to America at a young age, but at their parents’ expense.\n\n", "Would Cinco De Mayo have been more appropriate?", "Wierd, it's almost like there are terrible consequences for breaking laws", "Go for it! Tell your elected leaders (no doubt Democrats) to stop trying to make the President look bad at every chance and pass immigration legislation. They just burned a week trying to make a narrative about something the President never said. ", "But think about it from the flip side: are you going to jeopardize your family, or yourself (leaving behind your family), just to take the chance that you might be accepted?", "Christ--this country has completely lost its humanity.", "He's seems to be from the UK, maybe all he knows about the US is from Sky News and Nigel Farage.", "so were a lot of things that MLK did", "Not to mention \"That's just the law\" is used with extreme discretion by conservatives only when it fits their agenda. ", "No. They didn’t. You should probably read up on him.", "are you calling mexico a shithole you racist??", "No one can think this isn't wrong. They don't qualify as people.\n\nthe people who think this isn't wrong. Sorry that was worded so poorly.", " Is he from a shithole country? /s", "Did you take the time to actually read the materials that OP posted? Not a few section into the piece is information, that would have been readily available to him had he visited an immigration attorney, that before if you could prove that you were present before 1998, but the end of calendar year 2001, you could apply to adjust your status.\n\nAdditionally, there were many steps an immigration attorney could have taken to avoid the deportation by apply for the appropriate visa possibly given the origin country he came from (perhaps if it was a \"shithole\" or something like that). \n\nThe point is that this man refused to address his situation for 22 years (since becoming an adult). He could have visited an immigration lawyer and taken steps to alter his immigration status. Marrying a US citizen would have been one option. ", "No they did something illegally. Simply refering to a person as an illegal dehumanizes them. \n\nShould we call anyone accused of rape an illegal?\n\nHow many traffic laws have you broke illegal?", "> But i guess that's asking too much of lawmakers \n\nIt's a lot to ask of anyone. It's like saying it's against the rules for your kid to eat candy at night, but if they're able to sneak it into their mouth before they're caught they get a free pass. You're rewarding those that have evaded authorities and laws and encouraging people to follow suit. That's no good. ", "I'm sure the embassy there will hook him up with everything he needs in the meantime, especially with all the press coverage.", "Fuck you. Im not a democrat but assholes like you sure as shit make ot hard to root against them.", "My point was that laws are laws and if you break them tough shit. Don't look for a pitty party after being deported", "well there you go, question answered. ", "He's still breaking the law.", "You have 156 upvotes yet this is a wedge issue driven by both parties. It pays to have this argument because it gets the base of both party's \"dick hard\". Think for your fucking self. There are plenty of Republicans that think this is bullshit. You took the easy road. Thinking for yourself and not falling for political party bullshit is harder but more rewarding. ", "just out of curiousity. Could you name a few ", "2008 - 2010 was spent fighting over the largest overhaul in the healthcare industry in US history. They succeeded in passing it, but on it's heals came a lost house, filibuster lala-land in congress, and the rise of the tea party. Sure, he got his healthcare victory and managed to win re-election, but his legislative agenda was nearly sunk after that by hyper partisanship and Republican opposition so fierce they even blocked their own bills just because Obama agreed with them. \n\n\n", "So they were deported for no crime other than illegally being in the country.", "You are not being rational. Stop arguing with emotion.\n\n>slippery slope if we allow for a path to citizenship where you're undocumented but you've already blah blah\n\n\nNo that's not what I said at all. It isn't the law. I'm saying you can't start making exceptions to the law. It would have to be changed.\n\n\n", "This is just stupid. ", "He could have went back to Mexico and applied for citizenship. Instead he decided to try to hide out in America, and put his family at risk of him getting deported. We have laws that need to be followed. \n\nWhen someone breaks a law, we don't just say \"Aw, you have a family, never mind!\". No, we enforce our laws. ", "It's just that the situation has a lot of factors. It isn't as simple as \"Immigration laws are racist and need to be changed\". The laws as they are solve a lot of problems we would otherwise have without them, so if a couple people need to be deported, regardless of their family situation, it's for the greater good for the citizens of this country. ", "ICE is a bunch of fucking worthless thugs.", "He ripped his own family apart when he failed to legally enter the country. A 10 year old may not think about those things, but an 18 year old and up should be accountable for their actions or lack thereof. He was perfectly able to exit and then legally re-enter the county on a work visa and work towards citizenship. He failed himself and his family.\n\nCitizenship should have been THE priority of his adult life. Waking up everyday and worrying about the possibility that you'll be deported isn't something that you leave on the backburner. \n\nTake care of your shit or your shit takes care of you.", "Punishment for being an illegal adds a 10 year ban on applying for a green card.", "No, I didn't write that. I wish I had more time to wax poetic, but I'm suuuuper busy obeying the law and paying taxes.", "Those categories being what country you're from. Yes, some green card applications don't have to wait as long, but let's not pretend that most people from Mexico who want to emigrate here lawfully aren't on a 20+ year waiting list.\n", "You would now sure because I bet you aren’t being paid that and you aren’t being paid that because you don’t posses the knowledge base that someone who is paid that much does. \n\nThat’s not a knock against you by the way it’s just fact. I don’t either! \n\nIf that were the deal though I would just prefer to make less money and keep more. The return on my time is much better if I only make 200,000 and get to keep 120,000. Marginal difference in income but a fuck load more free time. ", "Probably thinks he will find a way back and I’m pretty sure he will. Most of the country doesn’t want to deport the daca people. This is a losing issue but if it’s the Hill trump wants to die on then that’s just another shred of evidence pointing to how retarded he is", "People don't know how the government works and literally think Trump created the government and its fucked up laws somehow in the last year. Its easier to misplace hate than open a single book.", "Most recently the CEO of Intel.\n\nAnd here is a nice list. Not sure if the source is credible, but the list seems accurate. [list](https://moneymorning.com/2015/05/22/america-has-become-a-banana-republic-run-by-wall-street-criminals/)", "It probably doesn't hurt, either. Everyone knows what the term means, it means someone entered or remains in a country in contravention to established laws.\n\nI don't think adding euphemisms actually helps anything.\n\nWe can call drug dealers \"unlicensed pharmacists,\" and call illegally manufactured machine guns \"undocumented property\" but it doesn't change what's going on.", "He didn't make the choice. His parents did.", "I recently heard an item on NPR of a deportee married to a US citizen who did not regularize his status - not sure if by negligence or if he had something to hide - but the whole family - four kids - moved to his home country and was living in pretty grim circumstances. That story definitely irked me because the kids were definitely adversely affected.", "Do you think that everyone who is here illegally has been deported? Lots of people have done it, and a large number of them have not been deported.\nI wasn't choosing sides in the argument just saying the argument that I'm responding to isn't really relevant. ", "According to your political cohorts being white makes you racist by default. ", "This man shouldn't suffer because we have shit laws that punish people for something they had no hand in doing. Our problem is fucking reprehensible, self-centered fucks like yourself who can't see past their own face.", "What the fuck is wrong with you that you need to lash out at some person and saying such horrible things? You're no better than the person you're claiming is so terrible. ", "oh well then, in that case, back to his shithole! sucks to be him. I do have an idea though. I'm betting he is waaaay brighter than you, how bout we keep him and send your sjw ass back in his place. sound fair?", "The dealers in The Wire were also very good at cleaning their money. \n\nStringer Bell could have become \"[the bank](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0oVG9bLHP0),\" you know, if he didn't become dead.", "Lmao yep that’s how the world works. That’s how highways and roads are paved. That’s how the elderly who cannot work, who were laid off after losing their pension in the market downturn works. That’s how kids who lose a parent to cancer are supposed to pull themselves up! \n\nYou need a real hard look at how “well off” some people are, and how fucked and poor a lot of people are. Like not even a look. \n\nSociety and western culture is about societal and moral responsibility not to yourself, but to the good of all. \n\nThe world isn’t your responsibility, but good luck explaining to your kids how “it’s not my fault fracking did this, see ya!”\n\nYour kind of world view leads to serfdom and literally bloody revolt. Grow up. ", "It's a mitigating factor.\n\nHis inaction is not a crime. And thank fuck you aren't a lawyer or anyone important, with that kind of logic and mindset you could potentially do a lot of damage to our society.", "It has everything to do with intolerance. He was brought here when he was 10 through no fault of his own because of his parents. Once in the states illegally, he can’t apply for citizenship because of our laws, so the 30 years he was here has fuck all to do with applying. Just because your parents came here legally does not mean life is as black and grey for everyone else, he got the short end of the stick, just like so many people with terminal diseases and no healthcare because of the shit laws we have right now. People need to start growing a pair to understand empathy, just because your life is all dandy, does not mean others have the same luxury.", "Hey, there's an original thought.", "1) The US has had massive immigrant waves before, much magnitudes higher than presently. They didn't overwhelm the US then and they aren't now.\n\n2) Even if they did, he entered 30 years ago (and not by his choice). He successfully integrated. He wouldn't be part of any current 'overwhelming' problem.\n\n3) Public schools (k-12) constitutionally must educate all resident students (meaning doesn't matter their documented status).\n\n4) Sorry, but that's three inaccuracies in three sentences.", ">but that doesn't change the fact that this is heartless and without any compassion towards his particular situation\n\nYou know who was heartless? His parents who brought him into a country that deports illegal immigrants. They knew this day might come but they still brought him into a country where he'd have to live in the shadows. This is 100% on them. ", "Man I think you really need to take a look in the mirror. Or maybe try to get more sleep or something. Are you having troubles at home?", "He can apply in 10 years for a process that takes years. It could be 15-20 years before he comes back. And no, he couldn't start the process during his 30 years in the States. His only option would have been to leave the country and his family for years to apply. It is intolerance of American values to kick out a hard-working family man.", "You don't need to steal a SSN. The IRS will give any illegal alien an ITIN. \n\nhttps://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/general-itin-information\n\nThe IRS doesn't care about legal status, they just want their money.", "10 year entry ban bud...", "When my father in law came to the US he had no money, no job, no family here. He left his wife and child in Russia and moved here and worked as a janitor while living with a bunch of other immigrants in an apartment too small to house then all. He had to work for 2 years to get enough money to bring them over. He didn't have any of the criteria above when he got his green card. I realize this was in the early 90's but I don't think much has changed (I may be wrong). \n\nI've met a few of his friends (also Russian) that had similar stories about how they came to the US. I also had a housekeeper when I lived in the Philippines (this was 25 years ago or more) that recently got a green card and moved to the north west. I don't believe she had any connections to the US but I haven't talked to her in depth about it.", "Actually this is the case. I believe ICE doesn't use ITIN information to go after illegal immigrants, they do so via other means. Illegal immigrants like using ITINs because it makes getting jobs easier and is looked upon favorably if the opportunity to adjust status is ever presented.\n\nAccording to [this report](http://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/2012-Annual-Report/downloads/Most-Serious-Problems-ITIN-Individual-Taxpayer-Identification-Number.pdf) from the IRS, 21 million ITINs have been assigned and 19.8 million of those have been used on tax returns. Here's a breakdown of the people receiving ITINs:\n\n> In PY 2012 (through August 2012), the IRS received about 90 percent of all ITIN applications from the nationals of the following countries: Mexico – 71.9 percent; Guatemala – 7.1 percent; Honduras – 4.7 percent; El Salvador – 3.4 percent; and India – 3.1 percent. IRS response to TAS information request (Sept. 17, 2012)\n\nIt's also interesting to point out that ITIN holders are subject to the same withholding of taxes as an SSN holder, but are ineligible to receive benefits in return:\n\n>In addition, employers withhold Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment taxes from ITIN taxpayers, who are generally ineligible for these benefits. The Social Security Administration (SSA) Earnings Suspense File (ESF) contains data regarding W-2 withholding that was not matched with a valid SSN. Tens of billions of dollars of employment taxes are annually withheld and paid by employers into the ESF on behalf of taxpayers ineligible for SSNs or with SSN mismatches.21 In TY 2008 alone, SSA posted 9.4 million wage items, representing $86 billion, to the ESF", "But he didn't have to stay away for that entire period. He could have visited constantly on a regular visa. If he did that, he would only be away for a few weeks in total.", "> I have no interest in debating anyone that will continue to make arguments that are addressed in the links\n\nBut you're literally ignoring every economic argument for people who are already here. I don't care if some guy at the top has more money, I care that the people already here are paid well and have a job. Illegal immigration would depress wages and remove jobs by necessity of existing.", "Apologies. I was scrambling to provide you with something as I cannot provide concrete evidence from my student's life. I don't know if you believe me, but she was deported without a DUI or anything. They took her away from her two young children (approx. 2 and 4 years old) and she was held in a jail until she was deported without them. The family contacted all of their relatives they knew to raise money for the two young children to be sent to her. The oldest stayed here to finish high school.", "That sucks but at the same time thats enough time to obtain citizenship. ", "Having &Totse flashbacks. ", "Can't even be bothered to read the post headlines anymore before commenting rofl", "I found plenty of straight faced versions, so I can't tell if this is actually an /s or not.", "Save me the pearl clutching. Watch the video and realize you’re part of this white savior complex. I can’t believe you can justify this and actually believe it.", "You have to understand that we have laws for a reason. He was an illegal immigrant at 10 and he still is one. He’s had 30 years to leave and renter legally. It’s a sad story but it doesn’t put him above the law. ", "his parents should have came in legally, but that’s still fucked up. he made a life here and likely contributed to his community. ", "I won’t tell you how many year(s) it’s been until seeing this definition. Thanks. ", "Not yet.", "Yes exactly!! The same people that bash that comment give this reason for not deporting", "Grow a heart in the center of that dead, cold cave you call a chest cavity.", "By our modern sensibilities, yea it's pretty terrible. But back then it wasn't. What are we supposed to do? Should all 320m Americans pack up our belongings and move out?", "Leave the country with his wife.\n\nEstablish relationship outside the US. \n\nApply for green card marriage.", "Well he got in so I'm sure he could manage to get out and do it the right way this time. ", "They could, but if I were them I wouldn't risk leaving the country. So it's his parents fault why is he being punished? He didn't steal a SSN, where is the source on that? YOu can pay taxes with a fake SSN and it isn't ID theft if it isn't someone elses number, and isn't fraud until they try and use the SSN to withdraw from social programs. are you retarded?", "Seriously.", "We've done fine in the past with the italians and irish, and then during WWII all the eastern europeans, now its time for a little fiesta. We're so culturally similar to central and south america its ridiculous to not give them an \"ez-pass\" into our country. ", "Could have vetoed it.", "Technically, the definition of \"immigrated\" is to \"come to live permanently in a foreign country\". Assuming that means you have all the correct documentation to move to a new country PERMANENTLY. \n\nThe definition of \"illegal alien\" is more fitting. \"a foreign national who is living without authorization in a country of which they are not a citizen.\"", ">It's what happened, we can't change it. And it was indisputably not illegal.\n\nSo we should just forget it and pay it no mind right? lmfao. \n\n>Conquering and settling other people's land has been pretty standard behavior for humans since forever really. \n\nSo basically white people coming to America violently = good. Brown people coming to America peacefully = bad. ", "Good.", "When the other option is \"I hope nobody ever finds out my SSN is fake or I'm in deep shit,\" it might be worth it.", "\"Fix the law\" is such a lazy and unhelpful answer.\n\nOh course we should \"Fix the law\"\n\nBut what about when we disagree about what fixing the law means?\n\nWhat is the time frame for fixing the law?\n\nWhat do we do in the meantime?\n\nNothing is ever just as simple as fixing the law.\n\nEspecially because law by its nature resists change, even when change is necessary", "Ah yes, a giant middle finger to everyone trying to do things the right way. ", "Not if his wife apply for a waiver which could take up to a year and then his wife putting in papers to get his his green card ", "Are you retarded? You obviously have little to no understanding of how the world use to work. Which laws in the 17th-18th centuries stated \"hey guys don't invade anyone or colonize any lands that would be mean\"?", "No Heart JustICE.", "So what you're saying is everyone should just say screw it to the immigration law and just come to the States illegally, and then just cry about the government being heartless and hope they get to stay out of \"compassion\" when they get kicked out. God I wish my parents knew about this trick before paying tens of thousands of dollars to immigration lawyers like an idiot to move here....", "I'm just referring to snap judgment cases. I've never seen somebody randomly demand to know if a light-skinned Italian tourist is a citizen.", "And we arent sure about death", "Look people, this is tragic and heartbreaking for sure. But the law exists for a reason and should not be circumvented. I hate that this has to happen but I think it should, nonetheless. If people didn't break our laws to come here then stuff like this would never have to happen.", "You're so full of crap. You're really trying to justify MLK being against illegal immigrants? Lol", "Suggesting his situation is different, thus requires a different response is not an appeal to emotion; it's an appeal to context. All of conservatism is emotional arguments such as gay marriage, marijuana legalization, climate change, universal healthcare, and including the immigration issue. The reason they want to punish the guy for the sins of the parents is because they don't want his type on America. Emotionally they can't handle a nuanced position on anything, it has to be either black or white.", "No, he can't. He's not allowed to even travel to the U.S. on vacation for a minimum of 10 years because of something his parents did 30 years ago.", "I would LOVE open borders, thanks for asking! Free movement of labor would be so good for the economy!", "they can always go visit him", "Sure, enforce laws. But can't we focus on people here who are actually criminals? This guy's parents committed a civil crime by coming here, and he had no say even in that violation at 10 years old. By all accounts he's been an upstanding member of the community since. I'd much prefer to spend money on removing people who are actually criminals than wasting resources destroying families.", "My buddy married a Philippino and got her here in less than a year. ", "> Son of a legal, poor immigrant from South America btw.\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/77rzjd/one_of_the_best_scenes_from_atlanta/doo8jco/\n\nAnd black on top of being hispanic apparently.\n\nEdit: Ha, and dude deletes his comment saying he's black", "So you believe you should hold the power to decide which laws are applied to which people. ", "When did implementing or not implementing Voter ID become such a core feature of American Democracy? You rephrased the point as folks like me being against Voter ID for the sake of being against Voter ID. That isn't the case at all. The problem is that Voter ID limits the rights of citizens to vote.\n\nCitizenship doesn't mean you need ID.\n\nFurthermore, you can't legally drive if you are blind either, Should blind people be barred from voting?\n\nAnd there are hundreds of thousands of Americans who cannot drive, have never learned to drive, nor will they ever need to drive a motor vehicle in their life. Why should that skill be a prerequisite for exercising their rights as citizens of the United States?\n", "Crime is crime. Doesnt matter if he is a 1 day old child or a 90 year old.", "So, we are now deporting employed, law abiding, tax paying citizens because of paperwork .\n\nClassic FUBAR", "Lol yes, I see a lot of hate in this thread, but I'm still unsure who said all these things you are talking about.", "Jesus man, stay WOKE", "Neighbor of mine is a legal immigrant who had to spend like 11 years to become a citizen of the US.\n\nHis opinion on this guy, and every other illegal, kick them over that wall Trump is going to build.\n\nIt's a slap in the face for people like him who had to work hard to obtain everything he has now and illegals make it harder for those who want immigrate here.", "What does immigration have to do with MLK day?", "You're not helping anyone with partisanship.", "Make immigration easy? Fuck no! An American life is extremely precious and making it easy will diminish its value. Best things in life are in limited supply. ", "This makes me so sick. The unnecessary mental harm done this these kids and their parents is disgusting", "But he was illegal.", "LMAO!\n\nIllegal = deport. There is no place for you in this great country.\n\nLegal = stay.\n\nWhat's so hard about that logic for you Liberals? Keep virtue signaling, It's really making a difference! ", ":(", "Honestly as an latina american, ive known alot of illegal immigrants in my life. My cousins, husbands family is dominican. And if you live here over 10years you can apply for citizenship. My cousins husband, (i call her my aunt). All she had to do was take a written test and thats it. Now i dont know the ins and outs of the system and i dont claim to. But i know for a fact all she needed was ten years, and they gave her like a test similiar to the state exams giving in schools. But maybe not as long. It was a test about 3 pages long, and i helped her study for it. All she needed to know was some english and be able to read and write a little. And she was asked on the exam things regarding the system and history of America. She barely new english at all. And she passed the test and became a citizen. And she didnt have to have some long expensive process. She was poor lived in the basement of my cousins house and was on welfare. So no, i wouldnt believe everyone you hear giving advice on this because it may be biased.\nAs soon as she passed she got her citizenship and she was able to get long term disability benefits. And im unsure if other countries have these same resources. But basically the government gives her money to live off of every month, also pays her health insurance and pays her rent and she will be taken car of this way till the day she dies. Actually when you hit retirement age you get something called Social Security and once she hits 62 or 63 they will give a little more money through that. \n\nThis i saw and lived with my own eyes. And ive seen alot of people who have gone through this all except the citizenship part.\n\nBut every single family, i grew up in a prodominantly Mexican neighborhood. I have never met not one of the hundreds of friends i had growing up of the hundreds of families to not be on welfare. They would work illegally, but because of this no many is taken for taxes. But they would get taken cared of from welfare money, for food, for rent and public assistance (cash). The amount varies depending on the income. But none of this money they recieved gets paid back.\nIt is only legal citizens that get money taken out for taxes. This is the God honest truth and me actually growing up on welfare i have that first hand perspective.", "Whatever the shittiness and exorbitant cost of US healthcare, the US citizens paying for said shitty, overpriced healthcare should benefit from reduced costs before a single illegal immigrant does. \n\nThe fact that it costs US tax payers $25k to have a baby but an illegal immigrant can have an anchor baby for $4k or less, on the tax payers dime, is absolutely insane. ", "That's funny, I am a lawyer. You'll find proof in my comment history. I'll make the same comment as to you. For VERY few crimes is ignorance of the law an excuse. Thankfully this is not one of them.", "The IRS doesn't care if you're illegal or not. They just care that you pay them. They'll give you an ITIN which is just a special number used to just pay taxes if you don't have a SSN. ", "There are other ways to do it from within the US. I've had close friends (a whole family where the dad and mom was both here illegally..with kids born here) that were picked out and they were documented and became permanent citizens without ever having to go back. I'll say this though, it was a lot of work and money. They had to go to court on multiple occasions to basically \"buy them time\" to get this done. Each case is different though, and I don't know if this same process they did, would apply today. ", "Again, what's your point? It's not easy to become a citizen of any country worth living in.", "Guy had 30 years to get it done.", "My point exactly this term is only ever used towards this one specific thing.", "A friend of my dad uses his wife's SSN. So on the books it's his wife working where he's technically working. ", "No. He has a ten year bar from entering the country in any capacity.", "so why are people angry with the US's laws and not Canada's?", "I know it seems sad guys, but let's look at the bright side: he gets a free ride to Mexico (which is an awesome country btw), and he gets to escape a racist country ruled by a nazi president. \n\nEpic win, amirite guys?", "As an American, it's a head scratcher too. \n\n\nI'm not heartless, I feel for his family but he had a duty to do what he needed to do to maintain his status or get citizenship.\n\n But he didn't. He had 3 decades. The legal punishment could be much worse. And be careful before listening to these internet lawyers without a degree. There many ways and many exceptions to do what you need to do. It's never as clear cut as people makes it seem. ", "Logic, evidence, practicality, reason.", "Just about every other country would so the same thing. If he had illegally immigrated to Mexico, he would have been put in prison and then deported. America actually has some of the most lax immigration laws in the world and is considered the most [immigrant friendly](https://www.immigroup.com/news/top-10-immigration-friendly-countries) country in the world.", "Could he have applied for citizenship once he turned 18? I’m clueless as to how it worked that many years ago. And I feel for these kids. ", "You can't kill the whole cartel. And Canada may not have to make you a citizen, but it would be pretty shitty to drop you back off at the chainsaw guy's house.", "No, the Republican party has. ", "But hundreds of thousands of people are deported every year. Thousands are also stopped even before entry. I'm curious to see how the enforcement and what the deportation numbers are for Japan. It'll be interesting to compare our numbers with other countries. ", "How would he do that?", "Uhh that’s certainly a lot better than being without your father for 10 years. And I’m sure the grandparents are fluent and they know some. And I’m sure their father is either fluent or knows some. I’d certainly rather go to Mexico and attempt to learn Spanish than to live without my father for AT LEAST 10 years.", "Fight fire with fire, and all that.", "Maybe, but being illegal and being removed is not unjust. ", "So dont enter illegally and then cry to the cameras when youre caught.", "So we should be run by robots and forgo humanity? Sounds like a winner.", "When did I say you were the only person on your side? I understand both sides of the argument and there are many people on both sides with valid arguments.", "They understand it perfectly. ", "That’s because Norway has western culture and people from there are easily assimilated into US society. We should even care what country they are from. It should be 100% on an individual by individual basis", "Except law abiding illegals (oxymoron?) were still part of it too. The spin is \"but we tried to focus on the criminals first!\". The reality is that Obama deported more illegals than any other president in history. ", "Which is why I think if we are to created a unified immigration policy, it MUST ensure nobody is ever in this situation again. Allowing people to remain in the country illegally isn't good for anyone. The sooner they are removed, the better.", ">The process itself is around 1 year.\n\nNominally, maybe. For the average person who isn't a doctor/executive/etc, it is a lot longer.\n\nThe quickest I know of for an average person was about 5/6 years, everyone else was 7-10.", "[This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM) gives a good indication about what 92% of Americans see as an Ideal distribution of wealth (technically not taxes but I feel like most Americans would agree that if the top 20% has 30% of the wealth they should pay 30% of the taxes ideally). So the ideal is:\n\n-Bottom 20% = 10% of wealth\n\n-Lower 20% = 15%\n\n-Middle 20% = 20%\n\n-Upper 20% = 25%\n\n-Top 20% = 30%", "All I’m seeing is “because it was hard.”", "Then perhaps some of the laws need to change so in certain cases like this where they were brought here as children they wouldn't be breaking the law. That's the direction DACA was taking us in until the embodiment of our nation's most bigoted, uninformed turds entered the white house.", "Yeah if youve resided here your entire practical life, raised a family, and participated in the economy, you should be able to stay here and applynfor citizenship", "We let a few people violate the law for compassion for years. Other’s saw this compassion and abused it.\n\nNow 11 MILLION of the people here are illegals.", "The big question is that he was brought here as a child. When you're old enough to realize you're here illegally how do you leave the country you grew up in your formidable years? I agree with you with any adult who comes here illegally, but with kids I think there should be some path to citizenship.\n\n", "We almost had to have empathy for others for a minute there, that was a close one! ", "What does the Latinos4Trump crowd have to say about this?", "adios!", "Fuck ICE", "No, we need to start following the law. Immigraition needs to be controlled so that everyone can assimilate easily.", "But he's had many years to right this wrong. You may disagree with the law, but it's still the law.", "What... the fuck.", "Man ignored law for 30 years.\n\nLaw finally enforced. \n\nIdiots outraged. \n\nMore at 11.", "This might be the most offensive policy I’ve seen in my time as an American. Shamefully cruel. ", "Yea, but did you see fucking Bob's new Lambo? With the gull wing doors? \n\nNow I have to go own 7 of them. For fuck's sake. I didn't even want a fucking Lambo. \n\nOppression? Do you know what it's like to be literally forced into buying 7 Lambos?", ">brought to the U.S. when he was 10 years-old\n\nfairly liberal usage of \"chose\".\n", "Is that a better option than hoping against hope you never get picked up and deported and have your life uprooted?", "FAKE NEWS. CDC director released a statement saying this is incorrect. ", "It's been half a century... He's from Mexico, and he's been deported. Nothing is similar besides a desire to immigrate. ", "Depend on if the police who witnesses it cares", "Is there a reason why the process is so long? ", "Here in lies the problem with DACA.. to qualify you had to be under age 31 by June 15th 2012. Yes.. 31!!! These aren’t the poor defenseless children or college undergrads paraded on the news. If you were a 31 year old DACA applicant in 2012 that makes you potentially 38 years old today. That is absolutely ridiculous. But the progressives and illegal immigration proponents don’t tell you any of that in their news coverage. \n\nThis man lived here 30 years and has been here since he was 10. That makes him INELIGIBLE for DACA. He’s 40 years old and would not have been under the age of 31 in 2012. He knew this. He had the last almost 6 years to apply for a green card. \n\nDry your eyes.. Jorge can take his family with him. He doesn’t have to be separated from them. His children and his wife are legally entitled to Mexican citizenship and hold dual citizenship (American/Mexican). So, while this picture of them hugging before he’s flown back to his home country is touching - it’s not by any means the only option for this family. His wife, if she’s an American citizen can also apply to sponsor Jorge and so can his children when they become of age. This story is only being half told and with an extremely pro-illegal immigrant bias.\n\nSource: https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/consideration-deferred-action-childhood-arrivals-daca#guidelines", "If your parents sneak in into Disney land, and they kick you out, is it Disney lands fault or your parents.", "ILLEGAL immigrant. Not “undocumented”....ILLEGAL!\nSay it. SAY IT!!!", "He could have committed identity fraud and stolen a dead person's SSN", "You’re an idiot. Does that ever occur to you?", "Åå", "Are you a legal resident or citizen of the country you are in? If so, that’s all good. ", "Well this is bullshit. I'm American Btw.", "I think this is not a great option as it would be a burden to take the wave of immigration that would ensue from countries that are not as safe or wealthy as us. So, that's my confusion. How do we make it easier but not so easy that EVERYONE comes here?", "That's funny because you guys happen to have even more strict immigration laws.", "He probably married a non-citizen (permanent resident) because he would automatically become a citizen if he married another citizen. Even if he was illegal. But that’s not likely. Odds are he married a citizen. \n\nA) The story is false and being portrayed differ \n\nB) He did something to be deported (serious crime)", "The government needs a warrant to access private property without permission. By the time they spot someone crossing the border, present their evidence to a judge and get a warrant, the immigrant will have moved onto someone else’s property. \n\nYou can’t just drive into someone’s privately owned ranch because you believe that someone who crossed the border is currently on that land. \n\n", "Lol that’s called the lottery system, and the current administration fucking hates it and wants to get rid of it completely. ", "I mean, this guy was a 10 year old kid when he took “the easy route”. Not really his fault. ", "Why does the US owe this guy legal status? He clearly has broken laws. Likely tax evasion. Lying on federal paperwork. Has never done his duty as a citizen by voting. IF he paid taxes, likely less than what he owed. The US owes him nothing. There are no such thing as squatters rights for citizenship.", "If your mom and family members were here illegally and were granted permanent residence while in the states, they should spread their knowledge. Because as of right now it is basically impossible to do so. Illegal immigrants and people who overstay their visa are forced to leave the country before they are allowed to legally request residence. So yes I’m quite sure they were not here illegally. ", "> Enforcing federal immigration law is not only just\n\nA just punishment would be in proportion to the severity of the crime. He hasn't harmed anyone, yet deportation is uprooting his whole life as well as the lives of his family. That sounds just to you?\n\nHypothetical question: Could a law ever be unjust?\n\n> but necessary to have an actual nation\n\nCounterpoint: At no point in the 30 years this guy was here did he destroy the country.", "Obama made the DACA executive order in 2012 because congress couldn't pass the DREAM Act. It's been introduced multiple times and it got filibustered. They kept kicking the can down the road, but now Trump says congress has to find a solution by March.\n\nSo yes, I want those 800,000 people to whom Obama granted DACA status since 2012 to be able to stay.\n\nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act", "I think we aren’t understanding each other. I am not saying they are taxed one rate on the 650k I am saying that earning 650k makes you a 1%er which means for all the different tax brackets you hit on the way up you and your 1% friends are paying 45% of all income taxes. ", "Punish the son for the sins of the mother?\n\nYou're a real nice guy. ", "He was brought here when he was a child and had no other home. He’s effectively a stateless person.", "Comments like yours are a big reason why people elected that moron. It is unproductive and it harms whatever message you try to spread. \n\nShame, imagine how much work we could get done in this world if we approached the world with a little dignity and respect for the other individual. \n\nTaxation is Theft.", "Ur so kewl roasting him behind a keyBoarD", "he deserves it", "My buddies uncle used to own a landscaping company and occasionally his guys would get “voluntarily” deported. He always told them if they found a way back to him he’d give them their job back. \n\nA couple would always come back.", "I will happilly respond. No they are not and you're full of shit.\n\nTo get a study showing immigrants are a net positive you havve to ignore the cost of educating their kids and their healthcare. THEN there are the smaller factors such as other infrastruture burdens they place that do not get factored into those studies either. Like increases in Traffic, Reduction in air quality, Rental prices, Electrical grid impact etc. Not to mention often ignores Fraudlent claims into food stamps/medicare. \n\nYou have to massage the FUCK out of the numbers to get an illegal immigrant to end up a net positive to uncle sam.\n\nA fucking LEGAL citizen making 15hr. Doesn't usually fucking cover those costs either. Your average woman for example making 15hr? Good fucking luck. \n\nAn illegal? often paid off the books and making 8-15hr? No buddy go sell that bullshit somewhere else.\n\nThere are reason most economists preach for NAFTA and immigration. It's because Roofers don't hire economists dumbass. Major Construction conglemerates do.\n\nNAFTA and immigration is GREAT for large construction companies. Terrible for all the LEGAL workers.\n\n\nNow I will be anxiously awaiting YOUR reply.\n\nBtw you should really watch this. It might open your eyes to the reality of the situation.\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE", "Again, another strawman. You're falling victim to logical fallacies.\n\nNo, I'm not saying Republicans are the only ones qualified to fix the laws. I'm saying that any hatred aimed at Republicans over immigration enforcement is intellectually dishonest and ignores the reality of who put us in this situation in the first place.", "You're getting really petty about stupid shit. When a group of people settle a land with no peoples, they are not harming any peoples. This was not the case when white people settled America and fucked over the natives. ", "This is wrong. He was just a kid. He grew up here. Heartbreaking.", "He`s better off out of it then", "The country was built on legal immigration, where people came in by boat and were quarantined to make sure they were not bringing in disease, at a time where if you came here there was no welfare or social programs to rely on. You either made your way and integrated or you went back home. \n\nAnd guess what, no one of any consequence is arguing against legal immigration. ", "So he couldn’t be bothered to become a citizen in those 30 years?", "That's another example. If you drive around with expired registration you will have your car impounded. \n\nAnd getting a DUI can very well ruin your life. Especially if you end up killing someone because of it. The fines and prison time on top of the guilt.\n\nAnd I agree for the most part with you about the wall. I think we will both agree as well that the US needs a serious rework of our immigration system. \n\nI'm in favor of enforcing our laws as they stand until they are changed. This is apperaently a taboo position to hold here on Reddit.", "Well Detroit is right next to Canada so it would be exponentially less disruptive for him and his family. Oh but im sure you dont actually care about him as a human being and a father, just throwing out buzzwords.", "You're delusional. ", "How about basic health care and amnesty?", "> yeah they are putting more money into the system\n\nYet illegal immigrants cost the USA $89,000,000,000 per year. Not my country, but that kind of scam should be ... illegal? LOL. ", "Oh hey, you forgot to abolish child labor laws so your plan could work fully. Better get on that. MAGA", "That is just retarded.\n\nDo you not believe in trespassing laws now? If so, I'll stop by your place, raid your fridge and chill out on your couch for a few ~~weeks~~ decades.", "Was looking for a reference to the Albertville episode of TAL here because it really is fantastic. \n\nFound it immensely interesting and I don't even live in the US. The most interesting aspect for me was the breakdown of the economic costs of illegal immigrants vs native born Americans and found that the latter, on the whole, paid less taxes, used more social services and drained more from the economy than the illegal immigrants did. I think people on both sides of the fence should listen to that story. ", "It is not a crime to just be here illegally, but it is a civil offense of the United States. Entering the United States in an illegal way is indeed a crime.", "Sad... This guy is more of an American than literally millions of actual American citizens, and he just gets booted out like that.", "I work in healthcare on the finance side. Charity care exists in every hospital system in the US. The hospitals get to claim a write off and lessen their tax burden. These cases might look like huge issues of no n-payment, but hospitals act just like casinos in that they take a little bit extra from the pot of payers to \"write off\" the freebies.", "No they're not, the rest of the family are US Citizens, they aren't getting deported because legally they can't be.", "And why do you think that is? Is it because Americans are secretly hiding under klan hoods...or do you think maybe immigrants from European countries are less desperate and so they generally come here legally and therefore wouldn't need to be deported?", "DACA was an executive order though, not a law. No one in congress voted on it.", "Not being sarcastic. \n \nThe whole legal system on this is loopy. How is someone qualified to own property in America but can't come here and become a permanent residence or citizen at the same speed? \n \nSince that's loopy, lets see what else we can get away with. Kind of like cooking 2 dishes at once. If the only hurdle to get in is a 3 year wait for permanent residence (to avoid ICE) and then longer to become a citizen that can vote, then why not just focus on step 1? \n \nIn fact, why not fill out the paperwork right before you go to America and hide out for 3 years, get your documents, and then enter again legally? Apparently paying taxes on a house doesn't trigger the idea that you'd have to be where the house is to use it.", "Ummm i don't know man, maybe sometimes it's not a matter of breaking or following the law, maybe it's a matter of life or death.\n\nThe real problem that won't be solved by a wall is that Trump and every other asshole politician refuse to take drastic measures toward punishing people who hire illegal immigrants. People from South America don't come here for the NFL and to wear a MAGA hat. They come here because they know they'll get paid for work. And until I see legislation that makes it a felony to not run your newly hired employees through eVerify, and see that eVerify has been made nearly foolproof, I won't ever believe that a politician actually wants to stop illegal immigration.\n\nEver notice that when you see ICE in the news, grabbing cooks from a restaurant or cashiers from 7/11, that you never see a store owner also being pulled out of there in handcuffs too? THAT'S the problem, and it should have been addressed 40 years ago.\n\nEDIT: Everyone needs to accept that we've been duped. I'm not only talking about Trump supporters... I'm talking about everybody. the narrative right now, it favors BOTH sides. if you're on the left, illegal immigrants are unfortunate victims of poverty in their country of origin, victims that had no choice but to come to America or starve / die / get thrown in jail. people empathize with that, and they support it every time a politician proposes making an exception \"this one time, for this one last group of people\". and on the right, the illegal immigrants are criminals, ignoring the laws at the expense of American taxpayers, taking our jobs. from the right, illegal immigrants are why we lose jobs, they're why we have a deficit, they're why we have high taxes. but neither side is looking at the problem correctly, they're only taking tylenol to fix their broken back.\n\ndo you know what the REAL issue is here? it's that politicians have chosen not to pass or propose legislation making it a felony to hire illegal immigrants, or worked toward that goal by improving eVerify and giving employers the tools that they need to be certain they can avoid hiring illegal immigrants without spending too much money to follow the law. as long as business owners can compare the costs of hiring an illegal vs the costs of being caught, and consider whether or not it's worth it, you won't ever see this issue go away. that's because our leaders don't actually want to solve this issue, since it is not an issue to them, and they see it as a benefit. that's the truth of it. the people in power, the people wealthy enough to pay for lobbyists and actually make legislation, they like it that illegal immigrants being in the US creates a situation where wages stay low, so that Americans have to worry that if they don't accept a low salary, that it's very possible somebody else will step in and take that job for even less money. \n\nWhy does the US have this problem when other countries don't? because we're ultra capitalist, and the dollar matters above all. i don't say that as a criticism, there are reasons why our GDP is the highest in the world. in many respects, money matters more than people in the US, and this alone is proven when you see the differences between our government and that of other developed countries. people living in poverty who sneak in to our country, from places where their ways of life are different than the US, places where corruption is rampant and being poor is just \"how it is\" because they don't know the right people, they see that anybody can work in the US and get paid for it. you don't have to know somebody to go and work for $8 an hour under the table... you just have to show that you're willing to do it. THAT'S WHY THEY COME HERE, and as long as we don't remove the incentive, they'll dig a tunnel under the wall, ride a raft over, they'll do whatever it takes to make sure they're not starving or dying. \n\nand can you blame them? i'd commend them to be honest, because if i were in there shoes, i'd be the first person out robbing and stealing to make sure i'm safe, or that my family is safe... i wouldn't go through the struggle and effort of sneaking into the US to work, that's difficult and you need to have a high threshold for pain and discomfort. and it's not like you get to sneak in only for your shift at work, you have to stay in the US, you have to learn the language or get by without English, you have to find a place to stay, you have to show that you're willing to work hard, you have to be persistent and keep trying over and over... all while being looked at as if you're some type of scumbag. i'm 100% sure that i'd take a shortcut and become a criminal if i were in their shoes. yet we still call them the \"illegal\" ones... it's ironic. they're doing whatever they can to AVOID becoming actual criminals, and we still give them the label despite that.", "I'm always puzzled by some things - for example, if you go to USA from my country (Serbia), like a tourist or to visit someone, you get INSANE amount of interviews, with personal and political \"trick\" questions, I have this friend and she told me how much they questioned her, and she was a good student, stable family with solid income, you know, that kind of person - mild, caring, always willing to help, so even if she had a plan of staying there, it would be just a plus for USA. She barely got through. I have many friends who didn't get visa.\nAnd then, two fuckfaces from Chechnya, with criminal history and under investigation for terrorist activities by Russian authorities, DO get visa, and no, they are not thankful, they blow up the Boston marathon?! \nI mean, they are not from American continent, so they could just cross the border, they had to apply for visa, get there by a plane, be checked at the terminal, and someone said \"you're cool\".\nWtf?\nSame goes for recent terrorist attacks in Europe. All the normal people I know had to spend days in lines for visa (now there is no visa for Serbians to go to EU, but I'm talking when it was required). And then people who have been living there for years start to kill and blow things up? I mean, where did they \"pick\" them? ", "No? ", "I respect the people that gain American citizenship legally. ", "Uh because life here is still better than life in Mexico. Go to Miami and see how many people there are illegal/don't speak English and still live great lives. It all depends on where you go.", "that wall is never happening", "I find it hard to believe that while growing up and everything else he did everything in his power to become legal. So without thinking with emotion\nWhat is the correct thing they should have done and why?", "You mean the time when the US's was poorer with much worse social security and people used as slave labour? Return to that time?\n\nDo you want fewer social securities?", "This dude had three decades to get his shit together.\n\nBye.", "Eh sort of. I know for some visas you can overstay on so long as the adjustment of status paperwork is submitted before your current visa expires . \nBut basically the system is illogical and only those who can pay to play benefit. ", "Hope for a better life/future (which the u.s was built on) and to escape the drug wars, probably.\n\nWhat were the irish settlers thinking when they came here? Or the jews? Or the italians? Or the sicilian? Fuck what were they all thinking?!", "Citation?", "Exactly", "\"They have what I want, so take it from them!\"\n\nSpend all that time and energy coveting someone else's success and make your own success. ", "It is a country, not a charity. If we start to not apply a set of rules this can become madness. I stayed in the US as a J-1 student and passed my interview and everything. Came back home on time. It's pretty reasonable. Things have to be done the proper way.", "Not picking sides just really wondering why he didn’t use his 30 years of living in the u.s to gain actual citizenship. ", "No? If anything his parents had a one-time infringement of the law by bringing him here. He hasn't done anything.", "I'm sure people said something very similar in 1939 when we turned away the Jews.\n\nNobody's saying it should be a charity; these people work.", "You said it. The law also says pot is illegal so I wonder if those saying this guy should be deported for his crime also say pot smokers should be prosecuted for their crime. Reddit loves to have it both ways. ", "Deporting this guy helps absolutely nobody, but it certainly causes misery for him and his family.\n\nThis is fucked.", "> ...a person who was born here is a citizen and someone who was not is not?\n> \n> Why?\n\nAre you retarded?", "That's a ridiculous argument. This land IS ours now, no matter how we obtained it, and we get to define the borders of this land how ever we decide is fit. \n\nIf someday a much more powerful group decides they want this land and takes it from us, that's just how nature works. Their laws would supersede ours then.", "Golly I feel safer now", "What country are you from? ", "Maybe causes he's against illegal immigration with his ignorance only allowing him to see what he wants to see. ", "\n\nYour father may have won the green card lottery (aka diversity lottery). The Filipina maid also probably won the lottery as well. \n\nThe GC lottery nowadays is limited to a handful of nations and is not a valid/sure way to immigrate here. ", "Good. I'm glad these illegals are being deported, their very presence is breaking the law.", "That's a really good compromise.", "I think the problem is the guy you replied to is comparing wealth owned by the rich, to income from the poor. The wealth the rich have is ideally money that's already been taxed, should they pay taxes on money they have in the bank, that's already been taxed?", "How is this law unfair? He was an illegal immigrant and he knew he was. He made the choice to start a family in the US knowing full well he could be deported and kept being an illegal immigrant for decades. At what point would you argue that this person should have been granted citizenship and on what basis? ", "... No, I haven’t. ", "> Active in this communities\n\n> r/The_Donald\n\nDon't waste your time with that cultist asshole.", "Yes because he way other people feel about a policy is more important than whether the policy is moral, just, and cost effective. \n\nGovern by feelings. It's the wave of the future. ", "There's a waiting period to get a tourist visa. It's not just going and asking for it and you receive. You sure you've worked in immigration law? ", "The guy above said that he would have had to leave, not be deported. There is no 10 year ban if you simply leave because they wouldn't know. Instead, he waited till deportation and bow is banned for 10 years", "I Have. Also, I'm not going to argue something so ridiculous. Agree to disagree.", "What? Guy told me to go fuck myself, should I be all \"well played my good man\"?", "Ahhh good old murica. ", "This is really shitty but I couldn’t imagine leaving without my family. I couldn’t imagine my wife saying ok bye. It’s terrible this is happening to him but I’d expect his family to go with him. Plenty of other great countries in the world. Just saying....", "If he left here when he was 20, he would have been back in for AT LEAST a decade by now, if not sooner as good standing can result in faster processing.", "Absolutely not true. From my personal experience, any US visa is a pain in the ass to obtain compared to Canada, Australia and most places in Europe except the UK. ", "I'll never understand the instinct to look down over looking the fuck up at who's really running the show. ", "Those idiot dopers are too strung out to do anything.", "We are the shithole. ", "There are two conflicting themes here:\n1) Deporting illegal aliens is legal and the law followed.\n2) Legalizing aliens who have committed no crime. This makes it much easier to fund social security and medicare for future generations.\n", "Empathy or not doesn't give a person a free pass to remain illegally in a country. ", "You might be shocked to know that you don't have to be a US citizen in most states in order to obtain a business license. Those people require a way to pay their taxes.", "I don't know why everyone keeps saying you can't get permanent residential status if you come here illegally. My parents did it just fine. It took a lot of time and money and suffering, but they did it.", "Clearly you know nothing", "In this analogy his dad stole a cookie so he wouldn't starve. He just kept stealing cookies for years later. ", "Dad gives kid half his earnings. Dad gets caught, kid holds the money. Kid knows the money is dirty. You're telling me in thirty years the kid couldn't do anything to follow the law, or didn't care?\n\nYou're free from the bag of dicks for raising a point.", "Because that's not a convenient fact for a certain political party.", "As much as I agree with you, this seems like another form of \"whataboutism\". ", "> - Live in a country that most likely now feels foreign to him without his family \n\nAnd where he has no job or resources. You glossed over that part like it was no big deal - if someone up and shipped you to a country you hadn't been to in decades, it's a pretty huge challenge to just bootstrap your ass into a successful life that will then pay for your immigration request.\n", "So you shouldn't be given a all expenses paid drug rehabilitation center to get you off the LITTERAL FORCED HEROIN ADDICTION. \n\n\nDude yes id be arrested if i did that you. I'm not arguing that. Im arguing that someone should not be responsible for the sins of their parents. You are incapable of putting yourself in that type of situation and trying to find a reasonable medium. The guys wife and kids will probably have to go through their own shit that can seriously damage them, the guy I'm not even sure what lessons is to be learned for him? Oh sonny jim that'll teach you to involuntarily be part of a crime. This accomplishes nothing.", "Maybe he shouldn’t have moved here illegally. Got married, bought a house, had kids. In this end this is his fault and should’ve down it would eventually catch up to him.", "Don't get me wrong I am not happy about it. Seeing this man torn from his family does not bring me joy. But laws are laws. And some of those laws we should try and change. But when you hedge your entire families future against not getting caught, no matter how obtuse the law it's a bad bet and you know the risks. Hopefully he can find his way back legally and be with his family again", "What 18 year old has the means to uproot his life and move out of the country to maybe be accepted back. Where would he go in Mexico? ", "Because it's not his fucking country.", "I have no problems with opening the borders. ", "cute", "That was addressed in the links so please STFU if you’re going to try to combat my argument by stating the exact things discussed in my sources ", "Actually I think staying is a good solution, yes. Doesn’t tear up a family, keeps a productive citizen, avoids a bad news day.", "Good", "Some Biblical bullshit to punish someone for something their parents did.", "Uh, if you’re talking about voter ID laws, yeah it fucking is. That’s not a prototypical race issue, it’s a poverty one. Several states have made the office hours shorter and eliminated offices so people can’t easily do it. ", "His kids and wife are free to leave with him. ", "Actually Shithole countries with shithole cultures are more likely to bring shithole immigrants with shithole problems. This has nothing to do with race.\n\nBUT a merit based immigration policy that doesn't discriminate which country they come from would only bring in the best people. But certain politicians only want people who are more likely to be dependent on the government.", "Stereotypes are always buried in a lot of truth and a bit of predujuice. Working one summer on a farm was enough for me to see the truth.", "That already happened under Reagan. Blanket amnesty only for those in the country right then, with the understanding that immigration laws were going to get stricter and deportations would be enforced.", "You've also missed his point, he's saying being an addict isn't illegal but staying in another country illegally is illegal, so it's not a good comparison", "And we're all safer now thanks to it, hurray! Let's also not forget that he's been paying taxes and unable to take advantage of systems for all thirty years.. technically he's the least possible moocher there can be, paying in with no way to get anything out!", "No you just made yourself worse than a trumper you dipshit. Assholes like you are why the left will probably never win again. ", "Looking at his previous comments, looks like it.", "A lot of people are saying there’s a 10 year ban on him even applying. That along is a really long time. ", "Or you do what our beloved president does and use legal loopholes to avoid having to pay taxes for multiple years ", "First of all, he did not \"waltz in.\" Hey was brought here at the age of 10 by his parents. \n\nSecond of all, the dude was living AND WORKING here for more than a decade, which means he paid taxes, most likely both income and if course sales tax, gas tax, etc. \n\nSo what is he taking advantage of exactly? Dudes probably contributed more to the federal government than you have. The only difference is that you slid out of your mothers greasy cunt inside of an invisible line on a map. ", "What is unjust about the law in your opinion?", "You don’t deserve the right to post on reddit.\n\nI said so, so it must be true.", "Does it get tiring to respond to things so childishly?\n\nExplain your thoughts like an adult, this stupid Reddit rhetoric is exhausting.", "Oh shut the fuck up", "100% true. Same way they don’t care how you came to have all that shady money. The IRS just wants us to report it.", "Isn't that exactly what most MAGA anti-immigrant supporters do as well?\n\n\"All Muslims should be banned from entering\"\n\n\"Mexico sends their rapists and criminals\"", "Can't believe I had to scroll down this far for this comment.", "It’s not like illegal immigrants just run around asking to be caught. His name came up for one reason or another, and it was found that he was illegal. I’d much rather criminals leave first, but I also don’t want any illegal immigrants here. We have immigration laws for a reason, and without them we don’t have a country. He had 30 years to leave and come back legally it’s sad that his parents put him in this situation but it’s not like he didn’t have a chance to fix it ", "So he's had 22 years to go back to his country and apply for citizenship legally? Am I supposed to feel bad for him? Are we really supposed to be formulating policy based on emotion?", "They use all of the tax based services. Maybe the super rich don't directly use things like SNAP or TANF, but they get a bunch of secondary benefits like job losses not directly translating to massive increases in homelessness or long term hits to the GDP. The rich don't have to worry about a family that just got laid off coming to their mansions and robbing them because the only options were to let their children starve or to start stealing.", "Ah jeez, this photo is absolutely painful. This shouldn’t happen to people.", "He was brought into the country as a ten-year-old, it's not like he would have had much choice in the matter. If he'd raped a child 15 years ago in Massachusetts he would be fine due to statute of limitations. But he entered the country illegally thirty years ago as a child, and he can't get citizenship to live with his wife and children for another 10 years.\n\nDoes that sound like a system which is working well? Surely whatever your position is on immigration you can agree that the world is not a better place for deporting this man under these circumstances.", "Someone else said this, and I quite sincerely disagree.... What aspects do you think are tighter in Canada? ", "Unfortunately for the USA, that means that most likely he'll never try, and instead take his family elsewhere. Even trying to immigrate to Canada doesn't take 10+ years, and often the immigration office in Canada looks at cases like this as \"what's best for the children?\" If he's been otherwise law-abiding and an overall contributor to society with experience in one career or another, they might even fast-track the whole family.\n\nThis is secondhand knowledge, I was discussing this situation with my circle of friends, one of whom has a parent who works for the immigration office in Canada. Someone with more accurate knowledge of the subject may correct me!", "DON'T COME HERE ILLEGALLY. That's the catch, ILLEGAL.", "Yes. Parents have had a direct impact on their children’s lives forever now and this is no exception ", "You can enter legally, stay beyond the boundaries of your visa, and become ineligible for a status adjustment until you serve out a punitive time period away from the US before you can reapply from your home country.", "> The current administration repealed DACA instead of fixing it\n\nDACA is not a law, it was a temporary executive order. The current administration has put the ball in the hands of Congress and told them to get a permanent fix on immigration law, something the Democratic Congress under Obama could have done, but declined to.", "Correct. I understand that they are still here illegally. The only thing I am arguing is that people think only those breaking the law in other ways are being deported and that's not correct. ", "I think you're right, the CDC thing was wrong.\nBut, the only war on Christmas I've ever seen has come from the right, that and how us poor white men are repressed or something. I never hear this crap from cnn/bbc/msnbc, they just peddle completely different shit.", "Haha the short answer is: Democrats. ", "Oh see but those were white immigrants. It's only the brown and yellow ones that the economy won't be able to handle.", "Why can't we create a alternative routes for people like this guy? The govt has to spend tax dollars to transport this guy, possible food stamps, and his kids' education. Meanwhile the govt isn't taking tax dollars from his job.", "I have a friend who’s family literally did this many many years ago. Is this new? They got here illegally from Mexico, went back had their kids, then came back to California and somehow got citizenship for the whole family after. Obviously I don’t know all their details so maybe they had special circumstances. ", "Think about how often the average American is able to afford a vacation to another country.", "Not that I agree one way or the other with any argument going on here, but the US tax code is pretty complex. Even the smartest among us is pretty ignorant of tax code. ", "Poor guy. As a father this is really sad. ", "Their feelings get hurt by a reduced fraction. ", "You think this didn’t happen under ever single democratic president?\n\nLook at your username. You are trash man.", "> North Carolina prohibited public assistance IDs and state employee ID cards, which are disproportionately held by Black voters.\n\n \nThis is so dumb. If you're a state employee then you have a W-2 or 1099, which are acceptable. If you have public assistance, you had to have some sort of identification to get that too, of course. NC wasn't even requiring a photo ID to get a voter ID and they were offering it free to those who qualified and they would register you to vote right at the DMV when you got it. But it was struck down by the most partisan circuit court in existence for \"racism\" because reasons.", "He was brought here as a child.", "He is illegally in another country. You can feel sorry for him but in the end he has been breaking the law ", "It's racist because the word \"illegal\" when applied directly to immigrant, implies that the person themselves is illegal. \n\nIt's perfectly fine to say they illegally immigrated, but to call them \"illegals\" is just insulting, and \"illegal immigrants\" is definitely pushing it. ", "Actually, it is tied to our conversation. You are uneducated about the real world. You should expand your horizon, go to college, visit another country. Your opinions are formed because of the lack of experience and education. You have my pity. Good day. \n\n", "This is so fucked up. Claim asylum in Canada and move your family here. We'd be happy to have you here.", "Not really sure what this has to do with MLK day... but sad story nonetheless", "\"Muhhh circlejerk memes\"\n\nWhat nuanced and informative critique. I see you are a man of culture.", ">Melania Trump was paid for 10 modeling jobs in the United States worth $20,056 that occurred in the seven weeks before she had legal permission to work in the country, according to detailed accounting ledgers, contracts and related documents from 20 years ago provided to The Associated Press.", "How is it racist?", "TIL reddit thinks people should be acquitted of a crime if it was done a long time ago.\n\nTook my family 12 years to come here legally. I'm a first generation LEGAL immigrant.\n\nBuh Bye. Do it the right way.", "Get green card, then apply for citizenship which takes at least 6 months. So many other people do it, I don't see why he couldn't have.", "They will have a judge on-call at all hours to hear the evidence and give the order within minutes just as is done with our police departments all over the country. ", "Here are more studies show that illegal/undocumented immigration are a NET POSITIVE to the US economy:\n\nhttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/do-illegal-immigrants-actually-hurt-the-us-economy.html\n\n>Giovanni Peri, an economist at the University of California, Davis, has written a series of influential papers comparing the labor markets in states with high immigration levels to those with low ones. He concluded that undocumented workers do not compete with skilled laborers — instead, they complement them. Economies, as Adam Smith argued in “Wealth of Nations,” work best when workers become specialized and divide up tasks among themselves. Pedro Chan’s ability to take care of routine tasks on a work site allows carpenters and electricians to focus on what they do best. In states with more undocumented immigrants, Peri said, skilled workers made more money and worked more hours; the economy’s productivity grew. From 1990 to 2007, undocumented workers increased legal workers’ pay in complementary jobs by up to 10 percent.\n\n>There are many ways to debate immigration, but when it comes to economics, there isn’t much of a debate at all. Nearly all economists, of all political persuasions, agree that immigrants — those here legally or not — benefit the overall economy. “That is not controversial,” Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute, told me. Shierholz also said that “there is a consensus that, on average, the incomes of families in this country are increased by a small, but clearly positive amount, because of immigration.” \n\n>The benefit multiplies over the long haul. As the baby boomers retire, the post-boom generation’s burden to finance their retirement is greatly alleviated by undocumented immigrants. Stephen Goss, chief actuary for the Social Security Administration, told me that undocumented workers contribute about $15 billion a year to Social Security through payroll taxes. They only take out $1 billion (very few undocumented workers are eligible to receive benefits). Over the years, undocumented workers have contributed up to $300 billion, or nearly 10 percent, of the $2.7 trillion Social Security Trust Fund.\n\nFrom the right wing think tank, CATO Institute: \n\n>• Daniel T. Griswold, former Director of the Herbert A. Stiefel Center for Trade Policy Studies at the Cato Institute, concludes that “basic economic analysis and numerous empirical studies have confirmed that immigrants boost the productive capacity of the United States through their labor, their human capital, and their entrepreneurial spirit. Instead of competing head-to-head with American workers, immigrants typically complement native-born workers by filling niches in the labor market.”\n\n\nhttps://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/cutting-immigration-myths-down-size\n\n>Myth number five: Immigrants depress the wages and working conditions of American citizens. New widely cited research purportedly by the Bureau of Labor Statistics declares that immigrants are responsible for “about 50 percent of the decline in real wages for the lowest-skilled workers.” Yet this “study” was never sanctioned or endorsed by the BLS. It is also contradicted by virtually all other studies on the subject. According to economist George Borjas, who is often cited by the opponents of immigration: “The methodological arsenal of modern econometrics cannot detect a single shred of evidence that immigrants have a sizeable adverse impact on the earnings and employment opportunities of natives.” For example, in the 1980s the U.S. accepted 7 million new immigrants, but unemployment fell sharply and family incomes rose. \n\nhttp://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy\n\n\n>When analyzed from the vantage point of information derived from reputable, nonpartisan sources (the Pew Research Center, USDA, United States Department of Labor, and leading economists and researchers) then one can obtain a clearer view of this muddled discussion. The truth of the matter is that illegal immigrants are important to the U.S. economy, as well as vital to certain industries like agriculture.\n\n>Their importance was highlighted in a report by Texas Comptroller Susan Combs that stated, “Without the undocumented population, Texas’ work force would decrease by 6.3 percent” and Texas’ gross state product would decrease by 2.1 percent. Furthermore, certain segments of the U.S. economy, like agriculture, are entirely dependent upon illegal immigrants.\n\n>The USDA has also warned that, “any potential immigration reform could have significant impacts on the U.S. fruit and vegetable industry.” From the perspective of National Milk Producers Federation in 2009, retail milk prices would increase by 61 percent if its immigrant labor force were to be eliminated. \n\n\n>But what about the immense strain on social services and money spent on welfare for these law breakers? The Congressional Budget Office in 2007 answered this question in the following manner: “Over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use.” According to the New York Times, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration claims that undocumented workers have contributed close to 10% ($300 billion) of the Social Security Trust Fund.\n\n>Finally, the aggregate economic impact of illegal immigration is debatable, but any claim that they’ve ruined the country doesn’t correlate to the views of any notable economist. An open letter to President George W. Bush in 2006, signed by around five hundred economists (including five Nobel laureates) stated the following: “While a small percentage of native-born Americans may be harmed by immigration, vastly more Americans benefit from the contributions that immigrants make to our economy, including lower consumer prices.”\n\n\n\nAnother good read:\n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/California/comments/6aef6o/california_is_the_chief_reason_america_is_the/dhe5jpl/", "Would a person in Daca who entered legally at a young age be able to “Adjust status”? Children are inspected too, right?", "Ahhhhhhhh... I don't remember it that way unfortunately. My parents were both legal, green card holders when they applied for our green card (my sister and I were 2 and 3 years old at the time). I didn't get my green card until I was 17. I joined the Marines early in 2000 and thankfully, and regretfully 9/11 happened, so citizenship was expedited for the military.\nI received my citizenship 10 years earlier than my civilian sister (my parents were citizens when I left for the Marines at 18). In the time it took for her to get her application approved, I had already left the Marines.\n\nIt's a dreadfully (understandably so) long vetting process. ", "> Who's word should I take for it?\n\nExisting US law, which doesn't afford a means for illegal immigrants to become citizens without first leaving the country unless they are granted asylum, which is an exceedingly rare circumstance.", "The people doing this to this family are the embodiment of evil. They are us. Because we failed to stop it.", "You're saying we should abide by specific rules because they've always been that way or because it preserves what our country is? Both of those don't really make much sense.", "People that smoke weed are committing an illegal act. Do you believe they should be prosecuted? What about the DEA raiding every dispensary in the states where it it legal? ", "The td babies are out and about ", "How would you feel if you stole something as a kid and detectives showed up 30 years later?", "> I’m sure has worked and paid taxes.\n\nNot likely. How would he do that? He doesn't have legal status to work. So he has likely evaded taxes for 20 years. If he wants legal status, he should have to go back and repay all he dodged by working under the table and using false SS#'s and claiming more children than he actually has.", "Since he was deported, he'll be banned for about 10 years. And you can't apply for legal residency while being here illegally, you will be deported and banned for 10 years anyway (so comments saying he had 30 years to become legal are just pure ignorance). Really his only legal options were to leave at 10 years old or be deported.\n\n", "“Legal loop holes” other wise known as the tax code. ", "> If he has paid taxes, he is at the very least committing Identity theft.\n\nNo, he is not. I pointed out that the IRS will issue a taxpayer ID if you don't have an SSN.\n\n>His very being here is a criminal act \n\nNo, it is not. Being present without authorization is not a crime under US law. It is a misdemeanor infraction, legally on par with a traffic ticket. There is no criminal penalty associated with unlawful presence, only deportation.\n\n> He is a criminal, plain and simple. \n\nHe is not. His presence is not a crime. His entry may have been, assuming it was via unlawful border crossing and not overstaying a visa. But at ten years of age, he had no say in that, and therefore cannot be held liable for it.\n\n> he has had plenty of opportunities to leave the US and apply to become a citizen.\n\nActually, he hasn't. Being undocumented and not eligible for DACA means he had no recourse. I suppose you think he should have left the only country he knows and gone back to where his parents came from, but don't even bother pretending you'd do that in his situation.\n\n", "This is an American. \n\nI unconsciously became an American by accidentally being born on this planet in the right geographical location. Mr. Garcia became an American, not when his parents brought him here, but by creating a life for himself over a span of 30 years.\n\nI think it is MUCH more American in any true American's point of view that you should be rewarded for the hard work and effort you put in to create a life here rather than those that accidentally fall into money/power or rely on others.\n\nHe is more American than I am and I would assume more than the vast majority of national born Americans. Those that believe otherwise do not share true American values and THOSE individuals should be shipped off to \"Shithole\" countries. ", ">The US is the only country that automatically gives you citizenship just for being born here.\n\nWhile I agree that US I'm migration and naturalization laws are far more lenient than many folks seem to believe (especially when compared to the rest of the world), your claim here is simply untrue. \n\n", "Yeah fuck that guy, how dare he waltz in here and live for 30 years with zero respect for our great country. Fuckin' disrespectful 10 year old immigrants. ", "Is there a source for this or is it just a sad picture and a headline. Would love to learn more about Jorge and what got him kicked", "Just a side note, not really relevant to the discussion at hand, but I'm a little confused by your statements. I feel like I'm just not understanding. Are you saying that she'd have to return home to file for a Green Card if her H-1B were to expire? That's not really true. Immediate relatives (such as spouses) are allowed to have Green Cards, even if they've overstayed their visas. The issue with the case in the article is that the guy entered illegally. If your wife's visa were to expire, I'd strongly recommend the opposite of what you said she would have to do. If she doesn't leave the US, no bar is triggered, and she can file for Adjustment of Status.\n\nSince you applied for AOS (presumably), she can stay here for as long as it's pending with little to no issue. It's not really a legal status in a sense that there's a little approval notice and number and everything, but it's not considered overstaying while the application is pending (most likely because AOS applications can take years). No stay is necessary, so I'm not really sure what you're saying there. No need to be concerned unless the application is denied. If it is, you have bigger problems.", "> Yeah, he’s permanently barred. Means he has to wait 10 Years to start. \n\nDoesn’t sound very permanent ", "But if she filled out the form to obtain the ITIN, she would acknowledge that she didn’t have a SSN and was indeed not from this country. Theoretically if she rented places and held jobs she would have attempted to get her documentation at some point, and wouldn’t have been bamboozled. Scenario seems unlikely that she went through the whole process to bypass a SSN and never questioned it. ", "But do people accused of rape get called illegals? Traffic violators? Was anyone involved in all that illegal bank buisness a few years ago called an illegal?\n\nThat is my point. Why should laws chanhe they are just illegals?\nWhy should we look at police overreach they were just thugs?\nRights for lgbt? They are just deviants.\nThe only reason you dont have work is because of those gypsies.\n\nI spend way to much time looking up how propaganda works for my own good lol\n\nWhy do you think there are so many american companies called liberty inc, freedom enterprises, patriot co, etc.", "Flat out bullshit btw, try applying for Canadian visa for immigration before talking out of your ass.", "If he tried to become a citizen then this sucks. If not, I can’t feel bad about it.", "No he's not. He genuinely believes it.", "Okay?", "No pity?\n\nI can't tell if you are a heartless asshole or just a clueless moron. I'll give you the benefit of doubt and just assume you ill informed.\n\nFirst of all, he didn't have 30 years to fix it. He was brought here by his parents when he was a child. Did you get a say in where you lived as a child? Probably not. So he grew up here in the US. He started working here in the US (you know that whole contributing to society thing? You probably wouldn't know anything about it yet.)\n\nSo somehow he is just supposed to drop his life here and move back to a country he was only in as a child and then face a ban (5+ years) on even applying for a visa all because of his parents bringing him here? Forget the fact that he would have to leave his family and work just to serve out a ban (that coincidentally doesn't discourage illegal immigration as much as it discourages people from applying for citizenship).\n\nI sincerely hope that when you Trump supporters grow up and move out of your parents houses that you develop some compassion as well as some critical thinking skills.\n\nRight now I can't imagine anything more unAmerican then deporting someone who has built a life and family in this country.", "If they were facing a terrible situation, then there are plenty of other countries they could have found refuge in legally. Instead they passed on those and ended up picking the wealthiest one and then entered illegally. Seems like his parents were just opportunity seekers to me. ", "I read your quote. It's a funny way to paint 50% of illegals not paying income taxes as a positive. Then you say the group as a whole contributes the same as legal citizens when. You just said 50% don't pay income taxes.", "HE WAS 10 YEARS OLD!!! What are you talking about?!? He came into the country when he didn't even know nor understand whatever law he's breaking right now. He formed a family, he constructed a life, but people like you are more interested in talking about \"public programs\"? Do you think laws are made by computers, do you actually live in a black and white world where there's no room for interpretation or individual case analysis, this guy won't be able to see his family for many years now, have you never lived next to other human beings in your life?\n\nSince you're so eager to talk about public programs what about this: since he's being deported the children he's leaving behind (that are US citizens) will most likely need assistance from those same programs in order to get suport. Congrats, you just created the exact scenario you wanted to avoid...", "Why should they go with him? ", "He came as a 10 year old. How do you propose he sneaks out of the country, abandoning his American family in order to reapply for citizenship?", "That's the risk his parents took not coming in the legal way. My parents worked their asses off to come here the right way and now we're all still here together! Funny how that works", "I’m not arguing one side or the other. I’m just attempting to clarify that it is not impossible to adjust status.", "Jesus man there's some assuming that makes an ass out of you", "They don't because they don't is a terrible argument...\n\nEchoing what others have said. Taxes are removed by your employer. Many illegal immigrants have real jobs and thus pay taxes. \n\nHow many \"shady\" business would there need to be to pay illegal immigrants under the table \"as a whole\" that the lot of them would avoid paying taxes?\n\nThere would need to be a massive amount. And the IRS does not fuck around and would not let that happen.", "Barred? You have a source on that?", ">He could have went back to Mexico and applied for citizenship.\n\nAt ten years old? Yeah what a great idea. \n\n>No, we enforce our laws.\n\nMaybe in a heartless bastard world. I prefer to live in a country that stands for justice. Guess you don't give a shit about that. ", "Oh I sure hope he doesn't use the word \"circlejerk\" next! That'll ruin us! \n\nPlease, mister! Don't do it!", "I sure haven't, I've also never started a family in a country I was living in illegally. ", "Good, follow the rules or the children suffer.", "There has to be a cutoff point somewhere. You can't just enter the country, hide your dripping knife, and tell an officer that you haven't committed any crimes in the 10 seconds you've been across the border.\n\n>All you’re doing is making a breed of hardened criminal willing to take the risk and take the money and welfare of desperate people as their payment.\n\nBecause we'd be decreasing the number of total illegal entrants. Only the most skilled and brave criminals would try to get through. Does that justify taking the bad AND the worse?\n\n>Is that how this works with issues like drug use?\n\nDo you think drug use would go down if we just forgave anyone who didn't cause trouble while high? On the contrary, people would figure that they're probably not going to cause trouble, and then they do. In greater numbers, because they're not afraid to try.\n\nNow, drugs and immigration are different here. I don't really care if drug use goes down as an end goal, so I don't mind forgiving peaceful druggies. However, I do care if illegal immigration goes down, even if that means it doesn't always catch the hardest criminals that are just waltzing in today.", "Huh Didn't realize Obama wasn't a democrat. Guess I need to read more literature.", "He wasn't making a racist claim he was being disingenuous. Illegal immigrant is the correct term\n", "Except that's not his situation.\n\nImagine you were brought to Japan by your parents, and you have no memory of any life outside Japan. You speak Japanese (maybe don't even speak your parents native language), worked in Japan your entire life, married a Japanese person, had Japanese children, and are culturally Japanese (because you never knew any other).", "I think you're confused as to laws and ethics violations. They are different. ", "Taxes aren’t punishment. Those that can afford to pay more absolutely should. The wealth gap continues to grow precisely because those at the top don’t pay their fair share. ", "> Extreme empathy is how we got the Soviet Union\n\nlol", "That's assuming that the more money you make, the more you work, which you have to know isn't necessarily the case.", "Neither does Nazi scum belong in America. You can read a history book and see the USA fought for the Allies.", "I understand why people want to be able to trust in a stable legal system, but American immigration law has holes. This issue has been tossed around for decades now without a functioning solution. A lot of these kids were brought to America and know this as their only home, and most of them have taken every opportunity the government has given them to stay legal and achieve citizenship, but these deals keep falling through leaving them in limbo. Decades later, they have built their whole life here, they are Americans in every sense but legal, but get deported because our federal government can't give them a coherent and predictable legal system to navigate. Now Trump removes DACA, promotes an ICE crackdown, and completely ignores the federal government's failures citing \"it's the law\"? No, morally that's not ok, and ripping apart families is not good for America. Would Detroit be better off with a hard working father providing for his American kids, or another broken family possibly ending up in poverty now. This is an indefensible situation.", "Wrong, he had a shit load of time to go back and file for citizenship. He could have done that before he decided to start a family as well. He would have been a citizen by now if he had. You can be empathetic and still realize that the law isn’t at fault here. I know many people who came here illegally and made it right by going back to the correct channels. Sure maybe it cost them a bunch of money and 7 or more years but they did it. HE is putting his family three this now. ", "The GOP and more generally opponents of the ACA started referring to the bill as Obamacare. Obama actually liked it and started using it himself. ", "Well that escalated quickly. ", "Yeah his parents are real pieces of shit for doing this to him...", "Not surprised America’s ugly side always seems to come out. ", "Has he not paid taxes in 30 years?", "The fuckers currently in office? In a second", "How is one of the worst kinds of institutional racism comparable to having a border? ", ">worth the risk to them\n\nWhat is the 'risk' you speak of? Because in your fantasy, there doesn't appear to be any risk what so ever. You sneak in, you get to stay. Case closed. Let dreamers dream while hard working legal immigrants like my father not only feel cheated by this system, but ashamed as an immigrant. Disgusting behavior. ", "You're my hero. I'm usually a lurker but people like you restore my faith in Reddit and humanity in general. If I could spare the $ for a gold, I would. Carry on good sir.", ">In all honesty I would just find a way back and live as an illegal again.\n\nHe can just get a raft into California or something, or you know, walk over the border and go back into the US.", "Commas matter.", "I blame their parents, and so should they.\n\nSplit the family or don't, but the illegal family members should be sent home.\n\nThis is my country too, and I don't like the laws being bent for certain people. We have the laws, if they want to be involved in changing them then they should have played by the first one. \"This land was made for you and me\" isn't giving away. Its for you, for me, for Americans. There is no room for strangers. This is a land for Americans and we have laws that people from other places need to follow. \n\nI just want the law followed until its changed, and then I want that one followed. \n\nThis isn't speeding, this isn't pot, this is a family. Someone else's life is at stake.", ">He’s a statistic. A statistic that costs the US billions.\n\n[The Truth About Undocumented Immigrants and Taxes](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/) \n\n>He could be a firefighter who rescued a hundred babies from a burning hospital. He would still have to go back.\n\nWell, fortunately, these individuals are NOT alone. We will fight for them. ", "So? \nHe could've gone back any time, he didn't.. Which was against the law. \nIf I got away with murder for 20 years but finally got caught I couldn't say: Well that was 20 years ago, c'mon!", "Trump sucks balls", "I hope your family gets broken up one day.", "They don't They work under the table. If they have a fake SS# they claim like 10 kids so they don't have to pay taxes.", "Sure, just put words in my mouth. I really don't mind people inventing thoughts for me. \n\nWhite people didn't invent war. White people didn't invent conquering. White people didn't invent colonization. It's a human thing. And as a species, for the most part, we've stopped conquering and colonizing.", "Bahahaha", "If Trump was smart he'd get personally involved to get this guy in. The positive press would be huge", "Yeah, not a very good one judging by your initial question.\n", "You're assuming a lot in that statement.\n\n1) That he was aware that was an option and that he wouldn't be blocked from entering for 10 years when he flew back home. And I'm honestly not sure that he could have done that either.\n\n2) That he has a place to stay and a job outside of the U.S.. It's really easy to say he should have left the U.S. earlier. Does he speak Spanish fluently? Does he have any support in Mexico whatsoever? From the number of people that come here illegally, I'm guessing that jobs aren't falling off trees in Mexico.", "Tell him and his family to come to the great white north. Added benefit.... If ya get sick here you won't need a second mortgage either eh. How's that wall coming along btw?", "Literally what white people did 400 years ago ", "Of course everyone has, I don't disagree. But because some people break certain laws does not mean they can't have different positions on other laws. \nI speed, but I am still against the crime of murder. The fact that I break speeding laws does not have any effect on my belief that murder should be illegal. \nI'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I just think the argument you made is irrelevant. \n", ">Undocumented\n\nThen go get your documents, hombre.", "That makes no sense ", "Virtue signaling BS about something irrelevant on MLK day about someone who broke the law. No sympathy for someone who disregards the law. But whatever pushes the globalist liberal agenda!", "Would you have done that if you were in his situation? Say yes and you're a liar.", "I dont get why they did not apply. I know in my case immigration takes FOREVER! My green card expired last year and i dont have the money to apply for citizenship. Its about 1k now so the night Trump won i immediately renewed my green. With a couple of days i got a letter with receipt and a specified time date for a live scan / photo apt. That was in November of 2016. They gave me an extension sticker for an extra 6 months in case i need to leave the country. I thought with in a week or two i would get my card since it was a simple renewal. Nope got my card mid Nov 2017 took them a year to process. ", "Hint: There is no path to citizenship available to him.\n\nGet informed before you criticize someone for not doing something that doesn't exist.\n", "It's the ultimate catch-22. \"By virtue of living here now you are illegally here, and thus must no longer be here in order to be legally allowed to be here. But look, we just found out you're here and illegal so now you can't even leave and come back legally because you already broke the law. So you haha now you have actually zero options! MAGA!\" \n\n\nAnd these fucks wonder why illegal immigrants stay illegal for their whole lives?", "Or just see that deporting this citizen is a net negative and make an exception. This is why there are judges for crimes, because there are exceptions and grey areas.", "Yeah. My cousin just became a citizen. Had to go back to Mexico for a year. It was hard on his family but he didn't want to get deported. The head scratcher is how do you stay here 30 years and never get yourself legal.", " That's just plain lazy. Nothing about this problem is insolvable or for the good of anyone . The article is just highlighting a symptom of racism and xenophobia , And it's one that we should all be aware of", ">\tEnforcement of immigration laws has nothing to do with race\n\nOn paper it doesn’t. In reality, it does. You’re looking at legal discrimination in this photo of a man saying goodbye to his children. \n\n", "Best option is to move his family to Canada perhaps? Move to Windsor — close to Detroit?", "That would be absolutely ridiculous. ", "Well life can be tough, but that doesn't mean you aren't responsible for your actions, or inactions in this case. He was here for 30 years and never had a backup plan for if this were to happen. Do you realize there are families in the US struggling to get by as well? More untaxed, low wage workers hurt everyone else. It's just the way it is. ", "> It's a huge, huge problem and we are being taken advantage of.\n\nHow big, exactly? Put a number on it.\n\nBecause when I read that, what it sounds like to me is classic Trump \"the illegals are destroying our country!\" hyperbole. Blowing relatively rare occurrences (each with little if any negative impact on the country at large) like it's a huge disaster to justify positions that, by sheer coincidence, happen to involve shitting on nonwhite people.", "That firestarter began his political career and presidential campaign with xenophobic howling. I'm sure his appointees share similar sentiments.\n\n** \n\nTrump and Obama have targeted very different groups for deportation. In 2010, the Obama administration instructed immigration authorities to focus on violent criminals and those posing national security threats. He refined his directives in November 2014, listing as his deportation priorities: members of gangs; those convicted of felonies or aggravated felonies; and those suspected of or engaged in terrorist or espionage activity.\n\nTrump's action's broad language vastly expands the groups prioritized for deportation. For instance, it adds immigrants who “have committed acts that constitute a chargeable criminal offense” – which is broader than those who have actually been convicted of a crime. Another includes those who improperly use public benefits, which could include letting your children get public-school lunches. The sweeping language means many more immigrants are considered deportation priorities.\n\n\n https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/05/03/this-is-how-trumps-deportations-differ-from-obamas/?utm_term=.83b915030028\n\n\n", "Its a short wait if you marry a US citizen like 2 or 3 months. Thats why marriage fraud is very prevalent. Also its Filipino NOT philippino. ", "So countries with low crime and small amounts of social or economic problems speeds the process up for you ? \n\nI mean I get why some countries take a along time mainly Middle Eastern countries as births and such are not really documented and records are constantly destroyed by wars and dictators. ", "Is his wife a US citizen? Why isn't she getting deported? ", "You're right it is an exceptional privilege that should only belong to a select few racist internet trolls who were lucky enough to be born within our countries borders. \n\nI guarantee that guy was a more productive member of our society than you will ever be.", "People that follow laws? \nYeah it's shocking :)", "Yes. He could have applied decades ago via his wife. This is his fault. ", "This whole daily shit of \"look at what you've done to illegals, black people, trans, gendernonbinarydemiqueers, muslims\" every damn day is the reason.. Can we not get an award show where dumb actresses and actors feel the urge to badmouth white males for winning this... fuck off ", "Go live in El Salvador and then get back to me on that \"ez-pass\" bullshit ", "Soooo he was here for 30 years and never took action to become a citizen? Also quite the stretch connecting this to MLK, even for Reddit.", "Every country deports people in the country illegally. Every single one.", "You’re a whiny one aren’t you? Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time. Like another commenter said, he had 30 years to make things right and he made the choice not to, this is 100% on him.\n\n", "Because he entered illegally... \nSay you wanted to go to Disney World but you didn’t have a ticket so you hop a fence to get in. You hang out most of the day, make friends with some nice people and check out the attractions. But then a staff member finds out you actually snuck in. \nWouldn’t you expect to be kicked out at the very least? ", "He had 30 years", "Party of \"family values\" strikes again.", "So his wife should illegally immigrate to Mexico?", "ICE are a bunch of pricks who should have rocks thrown at them on site.", "He’s not American, he can blame is parents for breaking the law. Get the fuck out. We have laws. He knew. ", "I oppose illegal immigration: we should legalize most of it.\n\n> Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,\nWith conquering limbs astride from land to land;\nHere at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand\nA mighty woman with a torch, whose flame\nIs the imprisoned lightning, and her name\nMother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand\nworld-wide welcome; her mild eyes command\nThe air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.\n\"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!\" cries she\nWith silent lips. \"Give me your tired, your poor,\nYour huddled masses yearning to breathe free,\nThe wretched refuse of your teeming shore.\nSend these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,\nI lift my lamp beside the golden door!\"\n\n", "Oh yes wanting in your country have immigration laws and borders is disgusting. ", "> turns a blind eye to the shitty business who intentionally chose illegal labor over an American citizen. \n\nI don't think that's true at all. People get really peeved when they find out that's happening. ", "30 years of SS and Income tax. Not saying he shouldn't be allowed to apply for residence but should have to equally contribute.", "I'm in this guy's shoes. I can't come back to the US for 5 years. For most it's 10 years. My entire family lives in the US still.", "If it's not a charity then it's a business, which it also should not be run as.\n\nHow bout we run it like a government, one that doesn't kick out taxpayers or a workforce that very well be taking care of our baby boomer seniors.\n\nEdit: spelling", "I certainly don't understand how it works. Did Jorge have a way to become a citizen over the previous 30 years?", "If the US opened its borders without restrictions (which is what you seem to be suggesting) it would be instantly inundated with millions and millions of immigrants from all over the world. The system could not handle that many people coming all at once.", ">I’m a good white, unlike the bad evil racist ones\n\n\nAre you Jewish or something?", "So if you or I didn’t pay our taxes for 10 years. Should we not be punished? And no he was here for 30 years Illegally. That’s now law abiding. That’s call breaking the law. He had plenty of time to fix his situation and didn’t. ", "But how does get a green card?", "His user name make me doubt anything he is saying.", "Maybe I missed something in the article, but what criminal scheme are you talking about?", "So easy for you to say when you're not the one that'd have to do it. ", "If Trump can pardon a piece of shit like Arpaio, he can pardon people who came to this country as children, whose home is the USA, but who are being sent to a foreign country (in this case, a place that this man has not lived since he was 10 years old, 30 years ago.\nThat's what Trump can do. He can pardon.", "If it was Canada he'd be in jail. The United States has some of the most lax immigration laws in the world.\n\nAnd when you say he hasn't committed any crimes you're lying, he entered the US illegally and stayed even though he knew it was illegal. No one forced his parents to bring him here and it's their fault for putting him in this position. Also, no one forced him to have kids either.\n\nYou're literally pointing to someone's incompetence and then blaming everything except that person for the consequences of breaking the law.", "Sorry, exemptions\nE: I know plenty of well paid construction guys, and they make an easy 30% more claiming multiple exemptions and never paying taxes and cycling through identities. They’re too numerous to deal with. And they hurt anyone legitimate by easily undercutting prices and wages by what they don’t pay in taxes. Not every illegal is a ducking dishwasher.. but if you want to know why every dish washer is Mexican it’s because they’re the only ones who can afford to do it because they don’t pay taxes", "My heart aches for them, god bless their souls ", "30 yrs as an illegal. Sounds pretty good to me.", "I hope Mexico will embrace him and his family under their family unification understandings. ", "Country of laws.\n\nLol...", "I'm ok with that. He had 30 years to seek legal status. I guess it all depends on perspective ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯", "Ok, next time you see someone speeding, please report the illegal activity to your authorities, because you believe that “law is king”", "EPC isn't what you're portraying it to be. It regards a single law being applied equally to everyone. You're describing different laws being more leniently applied than than others; EPC doesn't involve that. \n\nYour examples are too hyperbolic for a reasonable discussion. \n\n\n\n", "Right, I agree. It sucks when a good change for the laws could be, but we all know it would be abused.", "I would say it's most certainly the strictness of the immigration polices. The United States is almost 100% made up of immigrants and their descendants while Japan is almost the complete opposite. ", "I didn't say it is accurate, I just said it might be, but I don't know that based on a biased source. It might be inaccurate, too.", "Calling people who are here illegally as an illegal immigrant is racist, keep on diluting what actual racism is. ", "Those are just good words not arguments, I could use the exact same words to justify my views", "You just used trickle down economics to explain why it’s OK to have a baby here, then shit on trickle down economics through a tax cut. Wtf? You wrote two sentences and they’re a direct contradiction of reasoning. ", "Well your personal experience is irrelevant. The immigration laws of most other first-world countries disagree with you.\n\nSo, “this is absolutely not true” is just another REEEEEEE I DON’T LIKE THIS REALITY line.", "Except illegals don't pay taxes, they use bogus SSNs, the company checks it knows it's being used by an illegal, their employee just to happens to be a Mexican that can't speak a lick of english and employees them anyway.\n\nthey're paid under the table, the employer pays no taxes on their illegals behalf.", "Never said he was a terrible person I never once attacked his character. I'm sure he's a nice guy. ", "lmao taxation is absolutely not theft, please go live in a society without taxation and the civilized society it breeds, and let me know how long before you are robbed and your family raped and killed.", "you're still breaking the law", "He has family in Mexico, people don't just fucking sprout out of the ground in Mexico. Its not my problem, my family followed the law to immigrate here, his should of done the same.", "Sure, they contribute 11 bn, and drain 50+ bn. Basic math maybe?\nhttps://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fiscal-cost-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer", "And they are rich? Isn't that the result regardless of the party in charge? Regardless of the tax rate? The employment rate? Don't they still get to be rich? I just want a living wage and be able to quit busting my balls someday and enjoy this only chance to enjoy a life with my family and see the beginning of them doing the same. We can do both. Did I mention that they still get to be rich?", "You can't work with an ITIN. So he lied somewhere along the way. Either to his employer or to the tax man. So back to not having committed any crime--he has.", "He is not being punished, he is just not allowed to reap the benefits of the crime his parents committed. ", "Also you can't apply for legal residency while being here illegally, you will be deported and banned for 10 years anyway (so comments saying he had 30 years to become legal are just pure ignorance). Really his only legal options were to leave at 10 years old or be deported.\n\n", "If you are deported you cannot enter the country for 10 years.", "No. Simply asking that he obey the law now.\n\nIf you are building a house would you use concrete or clay for the foundation? If you use clay then don't be mad when your house collapses during a storm.\n\nThis guy new he was illegal and at risk of being deported if caught. Regardless he got married and had kids and is now mad because the clay foundation he used to build his life on washed away.", "Of course not, that would be ridiculous. However, we could maybe not be hypocrites and stop throwing fits when someone who looks different wants to move here. ", "Judges use precedent and make judgments from there. That's called jurisprudence, something that you don't know very much about at all.", "I don't know why American citizens keep thinking it should be easy to achieve citizenship.", "Because of how long he overstayed he has an automatic ten year bar.", "So has he known that this could happen for 30 years? I feel sorry for they guy, but if I knew this was a possibility for 30 years, I would not have had children until I settled it out. It’s important to know that these are not new laws under the new president. They are just now being enforced. ", "He's an illegal immigrant. His parents came here illegally, it's their decisions that led to this. They knew the consequences of committing this crime and bringing their family with. And now sadly their son has to face the reality of illegal immigration. \nAnd no he's not \"undocumented\" they're illegal immigrants (It's not racist to call someone who immigrated here illegally, an illegal immigrant.) \n \nAlso this has absolutely nothing to do with MLK. So what the hell was the point of bringing that up? ", "Why doesn't he just sneak back in again? Tens of thousands of others do it every year. ", "California will even give you a divers license. Legal citizens are now going to have to pay for a second license to prove lawful residence because the state license is useless for that purpose. ", "I meant Reddit in general. It's great for football streams and latest news", "On the other side, my friend has been here for 20 years legally and is still jumping through hoops trying to get his green card. The system is fucked on a lot of levels. His mother and brother both have them, but since his brother had a degree he got his first and my friend has to wait.\n\nEdit: They're from Canada by the way", "That’s a slippery slope...shall we start with your family?", "They could move to Mexico - a country their ancestors have designed for them.", "I think the person above was simply showing that this would have happened in either administration. Can't really confirm that though.", "What does this have to do with MLK day?", "Appeal to authority isn't an argument ", "> It's a mitigating factor.\n\nYou think ignorance of the law is a mitigating factor. It's not.\n\nMy question is sincere. If you think ignorance of the law means anything, you are mistaken. Courts have struck it down over and over unless the law expressly states it is a defense.", "the right way?\n\nYou forgot to add the end of that sentence.", "As long as you let the us know that you are entering (any kind of visa) you can apply for citizenship and get it pretty easy. Problems only arise when you enter the country illegally (commit a felony).", "Do you have the money to buy constant round trip tickets to Mexico?\n\nMust be nice.", "So I could of crossed illegally 17 years ago? Damn my dad busted his ass for nothing. ", "No argument here. I agree wholeheartedly with your user name.", "He could have. ", "Jesus. Where has our compassion gone???", "There's no excuse to not get citizenship in 30 years. My parents, uncles, aunts, even my 70 yr old grandparents worked hard for years to pay for all the fees necessary to obtain citizenship. Sorry, but I don't feel one bit sorry for this person. You owed it to yourself, your family and this country to get that citizenship. You didn't fulfill that responsibility and now you're family will pay the price for your mistake, that's just selfishness. ", "You can't once you're in illegally already. Its his parents fault primarily. ", "Now you're just yelling that people don't have compassion and still not providing any solutions other than apparently now you do think that everyone here gets to be a citizen. ", "He deserves to be punished for being brought to the USA at 10 years old? What a miserable person you must be.", "He HAD no power to become legal. The only way would be to leave the country, something a child can't do on their own, wait 10 years and then apply for a green card which likely would not be granted.\n\nMeanwhile, he'd likely be starving on the streets in a country that is completely foreign to him.\n\nHe did what almost anyone would do in his situation because he simply had no other options that let him stay in the culture where he grew up with his friends and family.", "Again...\n\n>His parents brought him here hoping that he could achieve what they couldn't. They brought him here because they believed he could be given an education so he could provide for his family one day, and not have them suffer or want like they did when they were growing up.\n\n>His parents are not to blame. He is not to blame. They just believed this country was as free as it claimed to be.", "That's just the law in place. Should everybody in the US be charged with a felony for downloading an illegal song? Everybody has done it. Being in America illegally is a misdemeanor. YOU have committed a felony I bet.\n\nWhy don't you turn yourself in if you're so much into drawing the line. You committed a felony, go turn yourself in.\n\nSee its not about what the law says, it's about what is right. Should every other teen in America go to jail for having marijuana, a federally illegal drug? Why do cops turn the other cheek on teens smoking a joint? Because why fuck up someone's like when they aren't hurting anybody.\n\nThere's no need for this madness. Keep the border strong. But come on man. Deporting American immigrants that work hard and contribute to this nation? What sense does that make?", "That is 100% false. Immigration is not a race issue. You can’t have a welfare state and not enforce immigration laws. There are videos of Bill Clinton, George Bush, Barack Obama, and Donald Trump all saying the same thing: “we need to control our southern border”. Obama deported more people than anyone else in history ", "You have added nothing to this conversation. ", "If ur brought to the US illegally by someone else and if your a minor, it doesn’t make a difference? If u come here illegally and your over 18, Ok send their ass back I guess. But if your brought over as a child , that is not your fault. So why should he get punished? He was 10! ", "Does he have a green card? Does he have a visa? He's an illegal plain and simple. Ice needs to get their shit together if he went under the rader 30 years.\n\nAlso they're illegal immigrants. Not \"undocumented\" immigrants.", "OK", "They actually do pay. A lot, really. It's when they report that they go through all the loopholes, and gets massive deductions. The common tax payer never even looks into that stuff.", "He was an American worker. He lived in the US, payed his taxes to the US and made products/services in the US, raised a family in the US. Now we waste money training some other American for his job, waste money filling his home, waste money with him not buying from us stores.\n\nE. Nazis aren't socialist btw", "Nope, she came in on VWP and got engaged and married while here.", "Who is this supposed to help exactly? ", "How so?", "My mom teaches ESL, and so she has a bunch of illegal/DACA people in her classes and listening to the news is hard for her because she loves her students and cares so much. Let’s hope that this program stays.", "My friend was back in, in less than three months..legally ", "How many Mexicans do you even think know about those programs?", "“Extreme empathy is how we got the Soviet Union”\n\nI cannot believe somebody could write this without the cognitive dissonance making their head explode.\n\nProbably one of the most asinine comments I’ve ever read.", "Yeah, damn 10 year olds overstaying their welcome.", "Anyone else see the title and thought they were deporting Hurley?", "stat·ute of lim·i·ta·tions\nˈstaCHo͞ot əv ˌliməˈtāSHənz/Submit\nnoun\na statute prescribing a period of limitation for the bringing of certain kinds of legal action.\n\nAlso, the child didn’t commit the crime. You really want to punish kids for what their parents did to make their lives better?", "Not all taxes go to welfare. I only mentioned it to drive home the inequity of the payment to benefit ratio.", "He has had 30 years to legally apply for citizenship..... 30 years.....", "Quickest way would've been when he was 18 was to go into the US Military. Boom problem solved. ", "Idk exact laws and stuff, but it took my parents 20+ years to even get started. They applied in the 90s. After I turned 21 I was somehow able to make it go faster. If they didn't have kids it probably would've taken them 30+ years. Assuming they applied in the 90s still.\n\nEdit: I forgot to add. 5 months to wait on residency, after that they have to be a resident for like 5 years. Then they have to take the citizenship test. Unless they want to take it in their native language. Then they have to wait like 9 years.", "I'm talking about purposeful and direct punishments like jail, a fine, deportation, etc., not secondary consequences of someone having their parent taken away.", "There's nothing lucky about not being able to legally exist in the country your parents raised you in\n\nSome might argue that's unfair and that we should accomodate people like this man who became illegal immigrants by no fault of their own.", "I'll have you know I graduated from hazard university as sum cum lots", "It's effective too. Even people who support gun regulation call it gun control.", "If you're going to call everyone who's against illegal immigration racist people are going to ignore your opinions. ", "He will be counting decades before he can enter the US again legally.", "But they're gonna steal my job! /s\n\nI love when they say that. It means they know they suck at their jobs and anyone could do better.", "The Code of Hammurabi says if you're caught stealing a loaf of bread they should take off your hand. Would you say that's not cruel?", "Canada is strict as fuck with immigration and even tourism.\n\nYou can't even enter the country to visit Niagara Falls if you've got certain misdemeanors.", "Aren't you just pushing the narrative that this is just \"reddit narrative\" and therefore easily dismiss-able? That sure fits the anti-immigration narrative that is so prevalent in right wing circles and America right now. \n\nEDIT: Lol the right wing snowflakes are triggered ", "We need to make a difference in this country", "This is sick. It's a slap in the face for what, we as a nation, stand for. Fuck Trump. He's an embarrassment.", "Then we shouldn't go oh think of the family. They have a choice.", "When someone marries a US citizen or resident the process is a lot quicker", "White savior complex?\n\nThat's an interesting twist. I'm not headed out to take photos with all those hungry children while on my study abroad trip. I'm simply saying that citizens are being disenfranchised by Voter ID laws that were designed to have disparate impacts on the basis of race. My speaking about the racial aspects of Voter ID law implementation and design does not mean I am talking down to or telling a group I don't belong to how best to solve the problems they face in their lives.\n\nI don't think I have the answers to solving structural racism or inequality.\n\nBut I do know, as a citizen of the United States of America, that voting is a cherished right that many fought and died to extend. And I want that right protected. I do not want poll taxes, I do not want Voter ID laws designed to function as poll taxes.\n\nPlease point out where in this whole thing you see a \"White Savior Complex\"?", "You could use this same line of reasoning to defend the Fugitive Slave Act in 1850, but it wouldn't look so great in retrospect.", "> You're still implying that it's the democrats' fault \n\nThe Democrats controlled Congress and did nothing to fix immigration law. Now the Republicans control Congress and they are working on a permanent fix to our immigration laws. ", "Where would he go at 18? He can’t apply for citizenship while residing in the US, the place where he and his family had lived for nearly a decade and all of his connections reside.\n\nEven if he did manage to leave the US and apply, it’s a long process, often taking years. So he has to support himself in a country he’s not familiar with, away from said friends and family and his (objective) home, just so he can rectify a decision he didn’t even make. And an application for citizenship is just that, an (expensive) application, not a guarantee. \n\nI’m not saying it’s right, but that’s just not realistic for most 18 year olds, especially those coming from poorer immigrant families. ", "That's hilarious coming from a t_d poster. Alex Jones, Pizzagate, small inauguration crowds... you guys took alternative facts and ran with them.", "So it would take ten years for the man who's been here for thirty years to become a legal immigrant?\n\n", "> This seems like a great case for that waiver.\n\nNope... Not even close. My understanding is that this is almost never granted by a judge. IANAL, but had a friend's fiance investigating/considering this tactic and it went nowhere. The way this waiver is typically interpreted by current law is : \n\nContrary to what you are probably thinking, the hardship is not considered to be what the family will face by being separated after the deportation. After all, if it's so important, your family could all choose to stay together by simply having everyone move to the foreign country with the person being deported. The \"extreme and unusual hardship\" necessary for this waiver to apply is what the family will subsequently experience in that foreign country. (e.g. if illegal parents being deported after being denied refugee status had to take a US-citizen child with them to a country that was in the middle of famine/war, etc. this waiver may apply... and has been granted in examples like that). But it really has to be something as extreme as that!\n\nSimply saying \"But my family will be sad and poorer if I leave the US without them\"... or saying \"but my family would all prefer to stay in the US together versus having everyone move to Mexico\" is not remotely sufficient. From my readings, judge's presiding these cases have literally said \"Preference is not hardship. Millions of other children/wives/people live happy and full lives in Mexico, you'll be just fine. Denied!\"", "Immigration attorney here, when his kids reach 21 years old they can petition for him to come on a family visa. However, because he was unlawfully present for over a year, there's a ten year bar on immigration benefits. It can be waived, but it's really tough. It's such a sad system. It tears families apart. ", ">When you get struck down (and you will) by a disease that is a direct consequence of your choices, like lung cancer, obesity, diabetes, heart failure etc\n\nIf the reason I get, say, lung cancer is because as a child my parents forced me to smoke 50 cigarettes a day, is it the doctor's fault they couldn't save me?\n\nOr my parents fault that they put me in this extremely shitty situation as a child, knowing full well it could and likely would come back and bite me as an adult?\n\nSometimes our parents fuck us up long after they're dust. This is a perfect example.\n\nThe guy's parents put him in an extremely shitty situation where he had to either continue living as an illegal, or leave the US and apply for citizenship in a country where he was a citizen. That's a shitty thing to do and he had no say in it, but as someone else posted in this thread, if your parents sneak you into Disney Land, is it the guards fault you get kicked out, or your parents fault for trying to scam the system?\n\n>and I will come down there in alabama and personally remind you that it was your fault.\n\nI live in Australia mate, our immigration system is much crueller than yours.\n\nIf you come to Australia illegally by boat, you will be shipped to a hellish foreign prison until we identify you, you will be deported and banned from the country for life.", ">We don't put the kids in prison. We send them home.\n\nthis is their home. you're sending a child to a foreign land, not sending them \"home\". like, there's a reason these people risked all of this to sneak a child here. its sociopathic. and dont give me that \"they're breaking the law\" shit. the law is a horrible barometer of morality. once upon a time slavery was legal. the holocaust was legal, so dont give me that.", "I think it's possible to enforce laws unjustly. This man was brought here as a child with no agency. This is his home, it's where he grew up, where his friends and wife and children are. Deporting him is unjust. He made the absolute best of a bad situation.", "Evidence: All the \"you're racist\" replies I'm getting on my comments. ", "Well said", "> This is the result of the father’s actions \n\n", "Don't cite the Heritage Foundation unless you like being laughed at.\n", "> You can't once you're in illegally already. Its his parents fault primarily.\n\n", "What was the right way to \"play the game,\" as you call it?", "OR...or....\n\nJump the border again...", "Again - this is the case once removal proceedings have already begun and does not take into account that it is applying for a green card as a spouse. ", "Worse that Republican? does not exist.", "So wait a moment, if this guy goes back to school and gets an engineering degree, can he then qualify for a TN visa in less time than trying to get back the other way? ", "So the man has had 30 years to get his citizenship, and y'all feel bad for the idiot? Sure, obtaining legal citizenship isn't exactly easy, but it was never meant to be easy. Its meant to be obtainable for those who really want it. The only person I blame for the sadness in this photo is the father of those children. His irresponsibility has cost them a father. ", "I’m referring to the mother. My mom raised two children on her own with a single income with no credentials in one of the most expensive areas in the US. It’s doable. \n\nThis woman and her kids lives in one of the most impoverished cities in America. Surely the cost of living is manageable on a single income. ", "Bigot: a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.\nWouldn’t that make you one because you have a different opinion?", "How in the FUCK do think think it's ok to say something like that? You just dehumanized this dude to a vote for someone you don't agree with. The dude is leaving his family most likely PERMANENTLY and you say some shit like that. Fuck you and fuck your little safe space T_D", "I feel sympathy for this guy and his family. His parents put him in this situation. The state was put in a hard spot, but until laws are changed for this kind of situation, this is what the law has to do. \n\nThe law has to be applied equally to everyone. \n\nI recommend advocating for new immigration laws if you feel strongly about it.", "30 years for him to figure this situation out and prevent this from happening. Its not easy but the guy had 30 damned years", "Wasnt an argument. It was a fact. My parents stayed illegally and now we are us citizens. ", "I don't celebrate it, but I don't blame our laws either.\n\nI blame his parents.\n", "Yeah, makes me scratch my head too.\nLand of the free my ass. If someone lived most of his life in a certain country, then he's a citizen of that fucking country. \nI mean, if you live there since you were 10, then what the fuck do you know about whatever origin country they're sending him to? Does he know the process of getting a bank account there? How their beaurocracy works? Does he even know who runs the government there?\n\nIts just so aggravating that we stick to such archaic by the letter of the law details, for stuff where every moral fiber shouts on how its wrong.", "AHAHAHAHHAHAA 30 years and STILL couldn't become a LEGAL citizen?! HAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHA GOODBYE!!!!! Daca let the door hit yo ass!", "So i can steal 5$ from u everyday for the next 30 years and justify it the same way u just did? Good to know.", "nice low effort insult instead of an argument. You're not worth my time, and my time is worth very little.", "My bad. But it may not necessarily have been his fault he was brought to the US - how would a 10 year old be able to resist their parents and live in Mexico? He may be illegal and did not apply for citizenship after 18 but it wasn't his fault he was taken there in the first place", "So according to you if there is not a law stating that you can't do something, it's totally fine to do it, even if it shits on other people's rights and lives. \n\nWho cares if we did something horrible? It was a couple hundred years ago! That makes it totally okay!", "As fucked up as this is, I would like to imagine a child life will be so affected by this that they will do everything in their power to be the next President and make America Great Again.", "What was his way out ?\n\nThe guy arrived as a kid, grew up there. Is there a fast process that would have allowed him to fix his situation at this point ?", "exactly. It takes a passport. If he had a passport he would have had to go back to his country, secure it, then travel back to the USA. And an ITIN expires every 5 years. Which means he would have had to make 4 trips back and forth, all bypassing border security.", "You can sit in a jail cell then. I do believe there are corrupt politicians but the thought of holding them at fun point and killing people has never crossed my mind. We live in a first world country, be grateful we don’t actually have to kill our leaders to get what we want. ", "true", "Entering the country in a way that they knew was illegal.", "No it isn’t but I know a few people that qualify at the higher brackets and let me tell you they miss a lot of their children’s life. I’m not saying you should feel bad but to get there it is an uphill battle. Sure you have kids that are given the world but you know what? They don’t (9/10 times) know how to grow that wealth and their kids or grand kids basically start the cycle over again. \n\nThe guys and girls generating huge personal wealth sacrifice a lot and operate differently than the average man or woman. I see this as a simple truth. ", "Really? No other loopholes?\n\nI feel like this can't be a dead end. He can't get a business visa or anything?", "I was thinking this exact thing.\n\nCommunities that harbor undocumented immigrants already under-report crime and are less likely to cooperate with law enforcement. Incentivizing this behavior would absolutely have a blowback.", "I don't care about the imaginary internet points. Our immigration system is fucked and the legal route is difficult. I don't know why someone who's illegal would decide to start a family here. He should've found a nice cuban lady to marry to expedite things if he was intent on staying.", "by law passed by Republicans by a slim margin during Clinton's presidency. ", "Trump pays more in taxes in one year than most people will their entire life. This man has no one to blame but his illegal parents first of all and himself for not doing anything in those 30 years, knowing he was illegal. Oh, and that idea that American citizens can be replaced by illegal foreigners.. thank you for explicitly stating it. Most leftists won’t come out and say it, but here you are. Despicable. There’s a reason his parents fled their home country, you compassionate genius, you.", "The person you're responding to is basically evil. ", "There are millions if not billions of him all over the world, what about them??????", "Yeah. That's how that happened. \n\nIt went like this. \"We're going to create a workers paradise where everyone is equal!\" See... empathy for the lowest part of society.\n\nThat desire for that utopia then makes any evil you do while trying for that goal justifiable.\n\nIt is the case study for the ends justifies the means.", "Leave and go where exactly? Where does one go home to when the home and everything they know/have is here? I don’t think you understand the perspective at all, and really it’s not even a difficult one to grasp. ", "I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this. I’m the least political person in the world. But as long as he’s living right and “paying taxes” then I say them him be. \n\nHe probably didn’t even realize he was illegal until he was trying to get his first job.\n\nNow if he’s been a criminal all his life then send his ass back to where he came from.lol", "On MLK day, ICE does their job and deports an illegal immigrant. That’s what the title should say", "Compassion? He should have had compassion for his wife and children to go back to Mexico and apply to be a citizen. Instead he hid out and put them at risk of losing him for ten years. \n\nI don't feel sorry for him. We have laws, and if he can't follow those laws, he shouldn't be apart of our society. We put citizens in prison or jail when they break the laws because they shouldn't be apart of society, this is no different. ", "I’m just talking about what little I know about the legal immigration issue. And that is that there are quotas based upon country the immigrant is from. ", "That'd be more expensive", "What about his employers all this time? If they're Americans, they should be put in jail for years. It should be a felony to hire illegal immigrants. We have eVerify, and I've heard it's effective. There isn't an acceptable excuse for not using it.\n\n\nThey need to make people actually fear hiring illegal immigrants, not do the math on what they'll save vs the risk of what it might cost if they get caught. That'd be the fastest way to solve the problem, and we wouldn't need a wall. \n\n\nBut that's not what politicians want. The right want a monster to point at, and the left want a victim for you to sympathize with. No one who can fix this problem actually* wants to fix it.", "You can't apply for legal residency while being here illegally, you will be deported and banned for 10 years anyway (so comments saying he had 30 years to become legal are just pure ignorance). Really his only legal options were to leave at 10 years old or be deported.\n\n", "Wow. Very interesting. Thank you!", "TIL- Respecting the law makes someone a cultist.", "Its guaranteed he's paid more into our economy than most legal citizens have. Of course you guys dont give a shit about that.", "You can't make exceptions except in the way 100% of laws have some ambiguity and are selectively enforced, so basically you can always make exceptions. We only have so many resources and as an American taxpayer I'm annoyed that my dollars are going towards such a pointless case of enforcement. How about we first go after the people who have more than just the crime of having been brought in as 10 year olds? I'm trying to avoid arguing from principles and find at least some outcome that we as a society can agree doesn't suck. Is there any version of this that we could meet in the middle on?", "Lol rekt", "a better life in america? i thought america was a shithole", "Cool, what company are you talking about?", "Preach this! And also no one wants to point out our government allowing this to happen and now we have a mess. ", ">I guess in my mind it seemed like there just had to be a path for someone who was already here and productive with roots. But i guess that's asking too much of lawmakers : /\n\nAsking to much of the GOP. This has been a consistent part of the Dem platform to provide.\n\nEdit:\n\n\nAbsolute bullshit below. Dems have tried to offer a better path to citizenship. Reps have blocked it for 9+ years. \"Oh the reps offered a compromise as long as it didn't include a single damn thing the dems want and everything trump wants!\" As to be expected of a T_D drone. Fuck off.\n\nThe whole reason Obama had to make the DACA is Reps couldn't be fucking bothered to care about these people, and now the Reps are intent on destroying that too.", "A legal citizen who follows the laws can take over his job you idiot. Move to Mexico if you think the US is backwards ", "But you're missing the point that he stayed here illegally for 30 years, that's his crime, his parents crime is bringing him here in the first place, but his crime is that he stayed illegally, sure the first 8 before he was 18 were essentially out of his control, but the next 22 weren't, he continued to break the law for that whole time, it's a shitty situation, but the fact remains that he was there illegally and was therefore breaking the law, when you break the law you get punished, in this case you get deported", "Not yet. Those freaks are dangers to society they need to be rounded up and dragged away from the rest of us. Maybe they can bang each other. Who cares as long as they aren't anywhere near me.", "Those children are American citizens, I suppose you're only suggesting that because of their brown skin color", "I didn’t need one.", "Not having sympathy for a someone who did the best he could when he was brought here as a child is pretty gross, yeah. He was raised in America. He’s not just an illegal immigrant. It’s horrible to ban someone from seeing their family for ten years. How would you feel in that situation?", "Bullshit. The necessary infrastructure that they rely upon to make their money uses way more of our tax based services. Just because they aren't on food stamps doesn't mean they don't use tax based services. \n\nWhether that be roads, trains, ports, telecommunications, satellites, electrical grids (yes power lines were paid by taxes), direct government research funding, law enforcement, fire fighters, the judicial system (protection for IP, Anti dumping, patents), minting of money, FDA (we all use it), EPA (common good), IRS (once again we call use it), building their stadiums, and all other things that tax dollar go to.\n\nNot to mention, the money for food stamps end up in the pockets of the people producing the goods. FAFSA increases the employee pool which reduces their cost for labor (more supply).", "Just a heads up. You have to put 3 backslashes to make that show up correctly. FYI", "It doesn't really work like that. The fact that he was in the country illegally and stayed for X amount of years is the reason he can't come back. Not that he was deported. If he left the country, he wouldn't be able to come back at all. For some it's a risk you have to take to see as much of your kids childhood as you can.", "Why not just jump through the hoop though? It is hard but it can be done. Go home for a year to gain citizenship.", "It might be, but we need to take a good hard look at ourselves when we do it. Maybe even deport, but allow some type of \"forgiveness visa\" for people caught up in this. Deport them, then allow them a chance to come back legally and go through the proper process.", "Again, being present without authorization isn't a crime.\n\nIf you disagree, go find the law he's breaking. I'll wait.\n", "I'm in San diego and go to tijuana often if he arrives there and needs anything and I can help i will do my best. someone get this message to him ", "Inhumanities and inconsistencies like this are the feedback loop that prompts to us to make it better. \n\nIf your circumvent that with \"Prosecuturial Discretion\" it removes the impetus to make things better.", "Maybe on his plane trip home, he will crash on a desert island and meet a cast of friends with whom he will share 6 memorable seasons of friendship", "...poor immigrants also qualify for those same benefits and deductions.", "Both. Switzerland isn't one of the countries that has massive blocks on immigration numbers, and it was the 60s when it was a bit easier to get in.", "Ancestors shmancestors. Who cares.", " It's reasonable to expect an 40 year old to have citizenship a top priority. He had 22 years of adult thinking to figure out how to get into the country legally. This was poor judgment and lack of action on his part.", "I'm talking about reality. Try experiencing it some times.\n\nYes, some low skilled people do have difficulty immigrating to Canada. On the whole however, it is far easier and cheaper to immigrate to Canada than it is to the United States.\n\nhttps://www.quora.com/Is-it-easier-to-immigrate-to-Canada-than-to-USA", "Regarding your beliefs — I can respect them although I disagree. I know lots of people who came here legally who don’t feel like this spits in their face. And there are many who do. At the end of the day, that’s just a matter of opinion. \n\nMost people who came here as kids and grew to be adults probably did not have the chances to “make it right” that you seem to think. Their whole life until adulthood, they were likely taught to not draw any attention to themselves for fear of getting their parents deported. And once they were adults, they probably could not get legal status in any reasonable way. \n\nI would argue that the whole issue is the level of severity. You seem to be arguing that they didn’t “play by the rules” — but I was trying to say that not playing by the rules is not reason enough for this action. Or at least, it doesn’t logically justify it, since many people are “not playing by the rules” and have lighter consequences. \n\nI get that you think it’s justified. I disagree but I respect your opinion. \n\nHopefully we both agree that the immigration system needs to be overhauled. It creates perverse incentives for illegal immigration when he never should have had to be brought here illegally in the first place. There should have been a pathway for him to have legal status. \n", "Lol, he still illegal, send him back!", "Yeah his parents really screwed him, huh?\n\n", "What importance is there, really, in having a nation to begin with? \n\nEvery politician is bought and sold by some big business benefactor or another, and the corporations are international entities, so all that's really happening is a few groups of people are telling everyone else they have to stay in their own places while they themselves walk around doing as they please.\n\nThe poor don't have a nation, they live in states organized by wealthy class interests who don't want them to move because it'll affect labor prices if people can just go wherever they want willy-nilly.", "I feel bad for him, but 30 years and you don’t apply for legal citizenship? That’s a slap in the face to all the legal immigrants that go through the process of becoming a real American.", "Give it to trump supporters to spin everything around in its own self to make their own facts lmfao.", "Real Americans are American Indian aboriginals other than that they all have immigrant background behind them. Well some people are just shameless and heartless. ", "> Well pardon my confusion here but what you're describing is called a \"path to citizenship.\" Which doesn't exist in this country. So perhaps you could refer me to the law or program she made use of to do this, which the entirety of Congress is under the impression does not exist? The law that she apparently used to gain citizenship as an illegal immigrant without leaving the country first? Because if such a law does in fact exist, then there is a lot of unnecessary debate happening in Washington right now.\n\nHere you go, buddy.\n\nCancellation of removal\n\nCancellation of removal is a form of relief available to people facing deportation. Illegal immigrants may earn a green card if they:\n\n* Have continuously lived in the U.S. for at least 10 years.\n* Have been a person of \"good moral character.\"\n* Have not been convicted of a crime.\n* Can prove removal would result in \"exceptional and extremely unusual hardship\" to the alien's spouse, parent, or child who is a U.S. citizen or legal permanent resident.\n\nThis guy had ample time to get this done (22 years). DACA isn't an issue here.", ">How bout we run it like a government, \n\nGreat idea\n\n>one that doesn't kick out taxpayers or a workforce that very well be taking care of our baby boomer seniors.\n\n[Except illegals are a complete drain on the US government.](https://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fiscal-cost-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer) ", "Sometimes you just gotta ruin families because shitty situations happen, right? Bad luck and best efforts sometimes result in this and we should follow through on fucking up the lives of innocent children.\n\nGot it. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm glad to live in such a progressive country.", "I feel so much safer tonight now that he’s been ripped from his family and his community. ", "Was the sex at least worth it?", "THEN THEY SHOULD CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR OWN COUNTRIES TAXES AND CLEAN UP THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES.\n\nYOU CAN'T JUST FUCKING PIGGY BACK OFF OUR SUCCESS CUZ IT'S HARD OTHERWISE.", ">The sins of a father should not carry to his children.\n\nI completely agree with you. The crimes your parents commit should never have any influence on you. You should never be punished for the crimes of your parents, but you also shouldn't reap the rewards. Glad we can agree. ", "The funny thing is that your immigration system is profoundly more exclusive.", "The people who are willing to risk everything to make it here for a better life for their children are exactly the kind of Americans we want to attract. \nIf there was a good way of filtering for just those types, I'd be in favor of just allowing automatic green card application after residing in the country for five years, no questions asked.", "Yep. No wealthy person has ever gone to jail or been held to the law. Seems about right. \n\nAlso, just because laws don't apply to certain people doesn't mean they shouldn't. Rule of law is an important thing to strive for as a country, so it should still hold true here. ", "[Sure.](https://www.ft.com/content/fac76fd1-7cf6-3abb-8fad-5cebfd6d96bd)\n\n[No problem buddy.](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/donald-trump-tax.html)\n\n[All you've really gotta do is type in (any big company +taxes) and you've got your answers.](https://www.ft.com/content/c3c63708-aa75-11e7-93c5-648314d2c72c)\n\n[But if you're feeling lazy, I get you.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/06/17/walmart-tax-havens/28857753/)\n\n[Sometimes we don't want to do the hard work of believing our viewpoints are flawed.](https://www.ft.com/content/6346575e-7d90-11e6-8e50-8ec15fb462f4)", "If that were true, every law can be bent and molded to any situation, and the punishment or lack thereof then depends on the personal views and opinions of the individual executioner.\n\nWhat retard law school taught you that appealing to emotions will save you from breaking the law?", "Reddit may not be a library, but it's still considerate to speak softly.\n\n &nbsp; \n\n ^^^^I ^^^^am ^^^^a ^^^^bot", "And you have also missed my point. If your forced into a heroin addiction and you are given no tools to get over it at the very least and are then punished for the actions of another shows a lack of empathy and introspecition. And yes it is, there are most assuredly heroin addicts in prisons I can promise you that much.", "Wow, you're right, you've convinced me. The country's in shambles, it's a total disaster, not prosperous at all. Clearly this whole immigration thing hasn't been working out well for us for the last few centuries, it's time to end it once and for all.", "Its harder for them to get the visas they need to even start applying for citizenship. ", "This is an unfair title. May it be true: absolutely. Is it unfortunate: without a doubt. The best course of action, however, is to alert undocumented immigrants that they need to do something about their unlawful status NOW. Do not wait 20+ years until you have a family and children and a job. \n\nIt is like ignoring your mortgage payments and complaining about the foreclosure process because you have a family. I hate that this gentleman is being displaced, but I hate even more that communication in the US is so \"us and them\" that people hide in the background without seeking help or assistance until it is too late. ", "Imagine being the cold-hearted bastards who carried this out and feeling like youre actually making making America better each day.", "30 years and didn’t obtain his citizenship? ", "He didn't have any say in that, he was 10.", "I'm not blaming the legal problem on Trump. His fate was in limbo before this, balanced on a cliff if you will, and rather than intending to help Trump removed DACA and pushed an ICE crackdown pushing struggling families off that cliff rather than to a reasonable path to safety. The situation was bad, but that doesn't negate blame for intentionally making it worse.", "So much winning!! T_D is probably circling jerking over the success!", "Free being that only half pay income tax. \n\nSales tax, property tax, etc. don’t matter as anyone who visits here must pay those. Not paying tax on the money you make in America is what pisses people off. ", "Yes I would of, I would of figured out what I needed to do to join the military. Its the easiest and fastest way to become a citizen. So yeah I would.", "What laws did trump change that affected him please tell me?", "Precedent and deterence I guess.", "The analogy is not sound. Two things can be \"owned\" but the rules for operating them can justifiably be very different. The way a country and a theme park should operate are not the same, and saying that \"well Disneyland is owned and they can kick out who they want so why can't the USA do that\" doesn't make sense.\n\nAnd no, I don't think the people can just set any arbitrary terms they want for the USA. That is the whole idea behind the bill of rights. Even if the owners want to enforce things that violate rights they cannot. If you wan't to use your private property (faulty) analogy, we can say that the USA comes with deed restrictions on what rules you can enforce. Frankly I think what the country is doing to this guy is unethical, and I don't really think he did anything wrong as a child forced into an unfair situation. The right thing to do would be to not deport this person, and also repeal the law asap. ", "Just a reminder that ICE is only 15 years old and does shit like this yet the government acts like its been here forever Nd that we need it to survive. Kinda Orwellian", "Unless they change the laws.", "Better just stay illegal and then complain when the law finally catches up.", "Yes sir! They apply for a ITIN ( Individual Taxpayer Identification Number)", "\"According to estimates by the Tax Policy Foundation\"\n\nI am going to copy and paste my other reply.\n\nThe \"Tax Foundation\" is a very biased organisation, founded by businessmen purely to criticize high taxes. That information might be accurate but that's not a proper source...\"\n\nIf this tax policy foundation is literally the only source you guys have, then I don't believe it tbh.", "No he just wants to show how them damn 'sjws' are actually all racists who hate brown people. I also like how your attempts to get people to see that they are arguing against themselves is just making them spew more and more right wing bs about \"illegals\" and appeals to authority. I applaud your use of studies in later comments and hope at least some people are able to see through this nonsense.", "Fuck our shithole country rn.", "That sucks. I hope they make some kind of exception for this guy and let him apply for citizenship. If not his whole family should just try to move to Mexico or Canada or wherever the fuck. ", "Ok, well if we're not worried about each other, I'm going to rob you, beat you, and rape any of your wives and daughters I find attractive. I will do this with a gang of thugs I hire to overpower you by surprise. Hope you have enough to afford a secure fortress and guards for it!\n\nOh wait, you definitely don't, because you're just a fucking accountant shilling for the rich, who hasn't realized what a thin layer of ice civilized society is actually on. \"Fuck other people\" sounds nice until they're lighting your cars on fire and looting your home because the riots have started when things collapse. You're naive to think you can shit all over the majority and give them nothing and face no consequences. Unrest will eventually cause disaster from within, even in america. See: Greece, Syria, etc.", "God knows, I am an Australian who gives people a fair-go. The USA is all kinds of messed up, illegal immigrants working and paying taxes while still being illegal, seems the IRS doesn't care about status, they just want their money.", "To be fair, that's how it always was, right up until the [Chinese Exclusion Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act) which is the first federal law limiting who can simply enter the US. It was enacted because people were scared of the Chinese.", "I think Obama's deportations focused on violent criminals. Trump's seem to be about separating families.", "In my opinion, it’s really his own fault. He’s leaving his kids. Maybe he shouldn’t have moved here illegally. He got married and had kids knowing he was an illegal resident. In this end this is his fault and should’ve known it would eventually catch up to him.", "This is a disgrace. \n\nIf this administration was capable of human emotion they should feel deep, deep shame. ", "Not a dumb law at all.\n\nHe can get in line and come in legally like we all had to.\n\nNot to mention we do have a process for this which this scumbag could have tried to apply for citizenship and apparently didn't. Many of them don't. I know a few like that. They're illegal moochers.\n\nSensationalist headline for unintelligent, weak minded liberals.\n\nCriminals. All of them. Our Civic duty to report and deport.", "Such great points. We should petition to have that outdated statue removed, or at least put in a museum where it won't confuse people about the current standards and stances of the country...\n\n/sarcasm...or is it?", "Then it's their fault, so there's absolutely nothing wrong with these events! However many generations you have to go back to help these people think they're not fucking awful for supporting the policies that lead to this.", "TIL: Going to a country automatically means you're doing it illegally. ", "It would be a short time except he’s been deported so there’s a 10 year ban. Plus he’ll have a tough road applying because of that, who knows what the law will be in 10 years ", "That's right, I don't. Our last President focused on recent entries and violent criminals. This one destroys families to satisfy his racist base.", "It is inhumane, because you're enforcing the letter of the law without any consideration to what it's actually doing. The law was never meant to be used to kick out an otherwise-law-abiding, hardworking family man that was brought here at the age of 10 years old. Why would it be used for that purpose? What fucking benefit to we get from forcibly removing this man from our country? \n\nThis dude isn't hurting any of us, and his presence and involvement in our economy benefits us all. This shit isn't right. I'm sure it seems like it \"just makes sense\" to the \"Law is law\" types, but I'm not like that. I don't get off by enforcing arbitrary rules regardless of the ramifications. I like justice and fairness, and this certainly isn't. I feel fucking heartbroken for this man who is having his family torn apart. How could you not? ", "So, I think being separated from his family sucks, but seems like he had 30 years to become a citizen. Why didn’t he? Seriously, do they mention somewhere why he didn’t or couldn’t? ", "The Philippines has a different priority date scheme than other countries. Mexico, India, and China also have different priority dates. ", "Then what is a fair distribution of taxation in your opinion? I am generally curious to hear other’s opinions on this. ", "You talk about strawmen, yet at no point did I say it was all Republicans fault. You're assuming that.", "What I said:\n> A child brought here at age 10\n\nWhat you said:\n> everyone here\n\nSo apparently, in your wacky brain, what I literally typed is not at all what I meant. Forgive me, but I have zero interest in talking to someone who doesn't even make a bare effort to read and fully comprehend what I'm typing or my intentions.", "This is not how you make America great again, this how you weaken a country ", "Not necessarily. it's unlikely the clock starts as a minor. Certainly not at 10 years old. Minors (or children, there some legal difference) almost have no legal rights and most legal clocks don't start till 18 (generally). \n\nI don't do immigration law because it's not sexy, but a minor in any fact pattern almost always triggers a special set of rules not applicable to anyone else besides that class. \n", "Soooo, just throw open the borders and make it a mad dash to see how much of the world would like to move here?", "but he knew this whole time. It's not our job to make sure his family does the right thing. My dad never saved for college....should you pay for it now? Lot's of people are in bad situations because of their parents...so what? ", "I don’t think people think Trump created these laws. I mean, some really dull ones probably do, but a small percentage. The rage comes from looking at Trump supporters who celebrate these laws and chant about kicking illegals out and take joy in removing them despite the fallout that occurs. \n\nIt’s the blatant disregard for these families and the inability to display one shred of compassion that angers people. Yes. Uphold the laws, but don’t celebrate the destruction it causes, especially in cases like this - where a man who’s been here so long has to believe because of what was done to him when he was ten. ", "Even Mexico ", "Assuming they report all their incoming.", "If you can't connect the dots about how the Soviet's desired to create a utopia because of the poor serfs, which led them to commit atrocities in the name of some unattainable utopia, then your understanding of history is extremely flawed.", "Shows getting a wife and kids while living illegally in the country is terrible planning", "> http://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/01/14/california-maternity-hotels-get-not-friendly-visit-feds-588181\n\nConsidering the source, anyone reading this should probably take the time to critically evaluate this article, including examining the sources provided for its claims. \n\nAnd to save anyone who has scrolled this far without already reading a click, there are no sources. Nothing written in this article is substantiated in any way. You should be incredibly skeptical of the claims made in this article.", "Leave the country as soon as he's independent and apply to come back legally. Or marry someone that would allow him to apply without leaving. I'm not actually sure if he was eligible for the latter.", "I don't see the connection here.", "Yep guy projecting his racism here.", "It's a pretty hefty standard. It might actually be a close case for him. ", "> born in California and left after fucking idiots took over the country \n\nWait, so you left the US? Did you immigrate to a new country? Did you do it legally?", "Sure, but how we define the borders of our land should be based on justice, not xenophobia. ", "I was trying to go for naive idealism. I felt you were defending the law based on nothing more than that's how it is, so I was trying to say how it should be.\n\nBut it seems you're just an asshole.", "right\n\nwhat costs are alleviated with this?\n\nhis job will be filled\n\nevery facet of society that doesn't care about immigration status will lose him as a consumer\n\nI really have no clue what healthcare is available to illegal immigrants...I'm assuming they find someone in their native community who is willing to provide health services for cash...\n\notherwise an illegal immigrant is a giant void of income tax dollars \n\n\nmy call has, and will always be: anyone who puts in 5 years of military service should be given citizenship as that was the price of entry historically in the US and is just as valuable now as it was in our infancy ", "taxes are still paid on any sales in an estate", "I know this might come across the wrong way but what's keeping his family from going with him?", "And his post history is literally all video games. Don't really think anyone who works in \"immigration law\" stalks Reddit all day under a Donald Trump pseudonym talking about Runescape.", "What system? Air or land? ", "You can by having your spouse apply for you, although that’s the only way", "But that’s not this guy’s fault, it’s his parents’. What an awful situation.", "> We enforce a standard of common decency and civility here. Please be respectful to others. Personal attacks, bigotry, fighting words, otherwise inappropriate behavior or content, comments that insult or demean a specific user or group of users will be removed. Regular or egregious violations will result in a ban.\n\n", "Pretty sure those places have stricter immigration policies than the US. ", "You’re a giant dick", "no you were arguing that laws should be disregarded. Disregard/disobedience != changing the laws. Thats a pretty stupid statement on your part buddy", "Because I'm being biased I have a very German last name and inherited some German-esc looks. I could blend in easier in those type of countries. Also why not shoot for the stars if you can. ", "What is “hard”? Doesn’t sound impossible yet...", "Illegal immigration is a civil violation not a criminal one.", "America is an embarrassment of a country.", "On that we're all in agreement\n\nBut they remain illegals for 30 years? How that gets solved is the most hot button issue this decade.", "This is not what America is about. Fuck I’m so ashamed of my country/leader", "I agree you have a point but I would bet you anything this guy has plenty of family in Mexico. Mexican families are enormous, in most cases. He could have easily gone back in his teens of 20's before choosing to marry and have a kid in America whilst having no legal status. \n\nI'm not saying this isn't a tough law or that he doesn't have a compassionate case. I'm only saying that I understand fundamentally why this law needs to be enforced on a broader level. And frankly, the real problem is the lack of immigration law enforcement historically. In a more ideal world, he and the adults who entered the country illegally would have been warned and/or deported within weeks or months of entering. ", "I go by the constitution, not rusted plaques in the middle of a dirty river. ", "Oh the ban. Yes. My parents were on that. Sorry for the misunderstanding. ", "Youre full of shit and getting upvoted by trumpets for it.", "I get that. I believe everyone in this country can agree they’d rather have all immigrants be legal. I don’t think anyone is rallying for immigrants to be illegal or rather have them illegal than legal. Even he immigrants would rather be legal. But the thing is it’s not always easy. The system is fucked to become a citizen. It’s very hard. \n\nMany of these families coming over come for a better life for their families. They’re doing it because either they don’t want to be killed or starve in their countries. Not because they’re bad people out to break the law. They’re trying to provide. This is where simple human compassion comes into play. Loving each other because we’re all human and want to make this world a place we can all live in and provide for our families. \n\nLet me give you a little example. Let’s assume you live in a place where lethal self defense is illegal. Someone breaks into your home and is threatening to kill your children or wife/husband. Do you give a shit what the law has to say about self defense or do you protect your family above all else and do what you have to do? This is the challenge these families face while we sit comfortably in one of the greatest nations in the world sticking our noses up to those less fortunate. The only difference between us and them is that we, out of no control of our own, were born on a different side of a boarder. ", "Who are we, and how do we know he'd ever have enough time, money, transportation, education - assuming he had to learn English along the way to get by, during his younger years, to apply? It's a long process, very hard, and who knows if it even goes through. Imagine that hanging over your head all the while.\n\nI see a lot of us blaming this man for his situation. It's his fault, he coulda done something about it!\n\nWhat I don't see, is a lot of asking him what happened, where is the system making this hard, if he hasn't applied, why not, and what can we do to get this productive member of society up and rolling legitimately, maybe take that weight off their shoulders and help them become even more productive.", "You don't think there was a way faster than the 11+ year wait here's going to have now? ", "You're a rabbid racist foaming at the mouth to deport more brown people.", "> citizen\n\nYou know he's not a citizen, right?", "wow, i think a guy from morocco married a friend of mine with the intent on gaining citizenship. he courted her over facebook, and then flew her out there and had a big wedding and stuff. all happened within 1 year. they seem happy, but i can't help it feeling shady as fuck", "I doubt this is real.", "We need to draw the line somewhere. But that doesn't mean we cannot take people on an individual case by case basis and determine wether or not they would be beneficial to our country. ", "But... My friend was smuggled over the border when she was 2 and became a citizen when she was in her late 20s. How could she have done that?", "It would be the parent's fault. \n\nIf the child still has resources outside of Disneyland and the family can reasonably compensate for the child's losses, if the family is kicked out, it is then mostly the parents and not the child who is punished. Disneyland can minimize its losses, the child is not excessively punished for a crime it was not culpable for, or at least can pursue restitution for it through the parents and outside resources, all is good.\n\nBut if there are no longer resources appropriate outside of Disneyland, nor can the child seek the parents for restitution for their error, the park would be doing direct harm to the child. It would be unnecessary due to the child's lack of culpability to the crime. Basic ethics states that the need to prevent excess harm to a child, or any individual not responsible for a specific crime, outweighs the need to prevent operating losses. Thus, the park should at most seek solely the parents and kick them out.\n\nSo, Disneyland could still have fault, albeit for different reasons. The party responsible for taking in the child isn't the sole source of fault and responsibility.", "Misleading? ", "The word you’re looking for is shithole", "OUT OUT OUT\n\n\\#buildthewall", "What injustice? They only injustice is that the system took 30 years to catch him. Meanwhile he and his parents have been filing false tax papers or working under the table. So seems like justice to me.\n\nDon't even dare equate this to the trauma and forced migration of African American People. This man and his family chose to some to the US, and they chose to do so illegally. The fact that it took them 30 years to get caught for their crime doesn't mean they didn't commit the crime. Not even remotely comparable to what African Americans have been through. \n\nFuck off with your superiority.", "Immigration policies are written like a catch-22 where if you are here illegally no move you make leads towards legality. (or at least, without leaving for 20 years, losing your family, career, and life, then starting over when you're an old man with only half the reason to even come back and half the ability to support yourself financially.) ", "A US citizen needs to be at least 21 to sponsor their parents. That process can take some time if you come from one of the top four countries with the most immigration to the US (China, India, Mexico and the Philippines) in a way that isn't true for other countries.\n\nEven then, it's extremely hard to overcome the ten year bar to entry, so he has to wait ten years and for his oldest kid to be 21 (whichever comes last) to apply.\n\nIf his spouse is a US citizen he still has to wait ten years to apply, but at least then he won't be penalized for being from a country with a lot of immigration to the US so it should be faster than being sponsored by his child. Spousal visas take between six and eighteen months to process, typically.", "So you don't have an argument against that?", "I’m more worried about them hitting my car and just sort of driving off because they’re an asshole. ", "\"become a citizen\" doesn't exist. This is not a thing. Until americans realize that that is NOT an option, every immigrant is just going to appear to be a lazy dumb foreigner.\n\nI am an immigrant myself, and I can tell you: every single immigrant present in this country right now would be in a line tomorrow morning at 6am if the government offered a paper that said: \"Submit this to become a citizen\".", "You're fortunate that you have the ability to \"come back home on time\" and control your life in that sense. Lots of illegal children are usually brought here with no say in if they even want to come, or how to navigate the system should something happen to their parents. Applying a set of rules to kids (aka, in this discussion, deporting them) -- sending them back to a place they have no familiarity with since childhood, and may not even know the native language, or any family or place to go, thereby exposing them to an extended period of hardship, poverty -- sounds like madness.", "Can this be both sad but the correct thing to happen? I feel bad for his family but he had 30 years to get this resolved and seek legal status one way or another. It’s not a blue or red issue I think a lot of people should be able to just look at things and apply logic to them without being on a side. ", "“I am much more socialistic in my economic theory than capitalistic,”, actual quote from Martin Luther King. From a letter written to Correta Scott, in 1952. ", "To be fair, Trumps admin pretty much directed this happen. \n\nNow I don't know this dudes background or what he's done or what he is capable of but under the Obama directives, ICE and USCIS were supposed to go after the actual gangbangers, drug dealers, violent criminals and \"ignore\" people who weren't tickig off any of those marks as they weren't the priority. \n\nTrump let everyone run loose and essentially blew his funding this yes deporting easier targets like moms, dads and students who had never done anything wrong than people who are an actual threat to public safety. \n\n\n\n", "Definition of foreigner: a person born in or coming from a country other than one's own.\n\nSo yeah, he's a foreigner.", "When did he say he was a nazi? Chill homie. He can have his opinions on immigration without being labled a monster...", "Should've gone through the process to get his citizenship. It's not brain surgery. ", "What's lazy is calling everything you disagree racist. Instead of trying to see from different points of view you want everything to conform around your own beliefs. Are you saying we should just let everyone in? Because that's ridiculous if that's what you are saying. Shouldn't have to explain why.", "I’m confident, as a Canadian, that a case like this would be handled on its own merits and he would be permitted to stay. That he was brought here as a 10-year old is the thing that Canadians would look at and say “This is fucking stupid, he is fucking Canadian you assholes. Let him stay.” \n\nAlso, just because I can’t even stand the thought of somebody trying to make a comparison between the immigration policies of your new America and Canada, our country is different when it comes to our immigration policies as a whole. We don’t, oh I don’t know, wonder aloud why we’re letting people from these shithole countries in in the first place or blanket ban people from on Muslim countries. Or if somebody does, they are quickly removed from whatever office they may hold. ", "by themselves or is it mandatory? I mean it sounds kinda like hoping a person would do the right thing ", "If your crime was being brought unwillingly to the US by your parents at age 10. If your prison was out of the country that you've called home for the past 30 years despite the whispers behind your back, the internalized blind hatred from those who know nothing about you, and the subsequent hateful political movements that have flourished in the past few years, then yes, Reddit would probably sympathize. This country was built by illegal immigrants, whether you like it or not, and your family was statistically likely to be one of them. I don't know about you, but I sympathize with those who have unwillingly committed crimes to help their families survive, although those crimes don't have usually have sensational headlines that generate tons of reddit karma. ", "Fair enough. But you did just respond to my comment.", "> /u/nofunhere is just full of shit.\n\nI don't think so.\n\nI only took the required year of African American history in university, but in my time in the class, it was pretty clear that a popular opinion of Black American academics was that there was both a real and perceived threat of illegal immigration.\n\nFor an example: one of the schisms between black and Hispanic groups has been prosperity at the bottom levels of society. You have resentment from black Americans towards Hispanics for integrating better, you have more competition for jobs, people being squeezed out of neighbourhoods from new immigrants. \n\nIt's very real. Of course there was an opposite message that hispanic and black people should work together due to a common plight, but both in the feelings of black communities and the actual science of it, they have NOT benefitted by Hispanic immigration in real or perceived ways. You see a lot of hostility between both as well. You can have gangs in LA or whatever and they're cut along ethnic lines. \n\nGiven that Dr King was a product of his time and the current thinking from 1900 and the black academic renaissance and different schools of black thought, he absolutely would have seen illegal immigration as a problem for black Americans, but also for the illegal immigrants themselves.\n\nDr King's main focus was civil rights and illegal immigrants have even less civil rights than Black America did. \n\n>I already pointed out that the vast majority of economists would agree that even illegal immigrants are net positives to the economy\n\nLook - sometimes perception is reality, but if you are black in the USA, it's not likely in both perceived or real terms that illegal immigration is helping you. There's an entire argument to be made about how much say...food should cost. \n\nYou see a healthy economy as one with depressed wages supplying us with inexpensive food. Perhaps if you were black, you would see it differently. You would be more likely to work in agriculture if it paid $18-$20/hr, which would be a living wage for many black Americans. But the cost of food would double at a minimum. So we'd have less affordable food, but also we'd raise up the poorest classes of people. \n\nBecause illegal immigrants are willing to work for less, they depress wages and of course there's not as much tax paid into our collective social safety net. \n\nDr King wanted people to have better wages and better conditions, so I doubt he would have approved of illegal labourers depressing wages and starving the tax base. He would have most likely wanted them to be legal workers, but in an orderly manner and to augment black labour, not supplant it. \n\nAnd no - we are not going to assume that black Americans are lazy and don't want to work for any sake of argument, either. I am confident that black America are willing to work, assuming we pay them what the job is actually worth. Considering how long they did those jobs for fucking free, I think they as a culture and society have proved their worth. Welfare queen stuff is Reagan BS lies. We need to pay Black America what Black America is worth. And I think MLK would have wanted EVERYONE to get paid.", "It's republicans fault that he couldn't get legal, that's what you're reading in this thread?\n\nI'm just seeing people either sympathising and being embarrassed of America or else being happy about it and saying smart things like \"Adios\" with a few people giving good insight into the immigration process\n\nI'm not seeing anybody saying that he can't get legal because of republicans but Happy for you to link me to a few of those posts", "Safety in numbers. If you can rely on a substantial number of success stories from these most trafficked destinations, you feel more confident in making that choice. We do the same thing to help decide on the best place to eat, of course it would be put to use as a rubric at this scale. ", "Yeah, I agree with what you're saying...it's a shit situation (as i noted below), but when you start making exceptions to immigration laws where do you draw the line? \n\nBottom line is had 22 years of being an adult in America, and he chose to gamble and stay here illegally. Would you and I have done the exact same thing?..yeah most likely, but at the end of the day he was breaking the law and it finally caught up to him. ", "You're a rabbid racist foaming at the mouth to deport more brown people.", "Does he have any prior convictions that made him a priority? ", "> (among other things)\n\nA.K.A.: [A great number of years of study and experience in handling the intricacies of law](https://www.fjc.gov/history/exhibits/graphs-and-maps/age-and-experience-judges).\n\nThis is not to say that all judges in the U.S. or elsewhere are innately fair or empathetic (not at all my point), but it doesn't set a good example to ask for a logical argument when you use a weird way of downplaying the most important aspect of that particular job.", "My friend was way under a year and was a machinist..", "If he moved here at 10 years old, based on title, I doubt he had any real choice to if he was here illegally or not. But who knows. ", "Wrong. They were settlers and conquerors. When you show up and kill everyone, you get to make the immigration laws.", "He's obviously talking about the country of Philipp... ", "Come back ninja. We need more good fathers like you. ", "Yes because you will literally due if you have no healthcare. Don't be stupid. \n\nPoor education. Hmm. US is literally a destination for the world to become educated at. People travel here just to go to school, so I'm not sure what your point here is. Maybe you're just misinformed. \n\nI'm personally not getting fucked over and over, and it's fair to say you aren't either. If you want to give more details on that I'd love to hear it. \n\nBoth your comments come off like you are uneducated and completely and utterly misinformed, or will fully ignorant.", "personally i would treat illegal immigration like a civil matter: fine the person until they become compliant. filling up prisons with people who's main crime is crossing an arbitrary line seems like a waste of resources unless they're actually a danger to someone. but then again, i have no inbred hostility towards people because they come from a different plot of sand on a different section of arbitrary lines, so i may be a unicorn here", "Yupp.\n\nThat's how laws work. They treat everyone the same. Even if you have a heartfelt story.\n\n\nI prefer equal treatment.", "Personal attacks? You're getting desperate here. ", "I believe a progressive tax policy was implied.", "That is 100% false. Immigration is not a race issue. You can’t have a welfare state and not enforce immigration laws. There are videos of Bill Clinton, George Bush, Barack Obama, and Donald Trump all saying the same thing: “we need to control our southern border”. Obama deported more people than anyone else in history ", "I agree he should be given a chance to make this right. However your assumption that a law he broke THAT APPLIES TO EVERYONE despite their color is racist is absurd. You cant just fucking scream racism everytime something happens to someone who happens to be brown. It's unproductive and ridiculous. If you say this is racist because A , B , and C . if they are valid points great. Other than that fuck off and stop ruining our country", "Are you some kind of thug? You commit crimes on the daily, edgelord?\n\nBahahaha", "You’re kidding me right? How the fuck was he supposed know if he was ten years old when he moved here? Honestly I hope you misread the title because if you didn’t you’re either an idiot or heartless. ", "But he's not being punished for entering illegally, he's being punished for staying illegally, which is on him, empathy has nothing to do with it, the law is the law and he broke it", "Good. He's an illegal alien. He had 30 years to come correct and didn't. Tough shit.", "> bluelight\n\nnow that is a name i haven't heard in years", "There's only so many new things on r/news and r/worldnews to spread their vitriol.", "It's different for parents than it is for spouses of US citizens. They have different visa priority dates. For a US citizen, spousal visas are usually immediately available. ", "the only one i can speak from experience about is living in .ca, which i've always found easier on my 'well being' i guess you could say.. i've traveled plenty, and theres been quite a few places I suspect are generally happier than the US populous, .. in general, Scandinavian countries seem pretty boss. and I know fuck-all about the Netherlands, but i like it.", "Good guess, my turn. You're fat.", "You’re right. We should send his kids back with him.", "\"The law is the law\" is as effective of an argument as \"Because I said so\"\n\nAppealing to authority isn't an argument ", "> You mean illegal immigrants. Then just fucking say that.\n\nAh yes, I forgot that republicans believe words have magical properties. Just like all terrorism stopped when we started to say \"muslim terrorist.\"", "This is a little cookie-cutter. When you were 10 years old would have stayed behind if your family was moving to another country? Obviously he must have found out later on, but he may not even have known at the time they were illegals, or what it meant. The failure to bring him in legally or regularize his situation falls squarely on his family, he was not legally responsible at the time.\n\n\nNow I am not saying we should grand him citizenship, but cases should be evaluated on their own merit and any person who lived a law abiding life for 30 years should be considered for permanent residency rather than just deported. ", "She doesn't have a 10 year ban to deal with. This guy does.", "Well, watch out for ICE then. ", "But they give him a safe place to stay (since his parents would be charged). Take care of their needs. \n\nMexico isn’t this guy’s home.", "That's great that he can be re-united with his father. ", "Weak arguments that make no sense. This is why women can't be president.", "I really might. I’m about to go into college, I am \ngoing into international relations and I would like to learn more about this and be able to advocate for people in these situations and try to change things.", "But the military is hard!!", "Forgive me for the dumb question... would he have been able to apply for permanent residency upon getting married? Or not, because he was already in the country illegally?", "Shouldn’t he should have been “applying” while he was here.", "You do know any medium to small sized business will go under from fines and the like from employing illegals. Its against the law.", "> The fact that it costs US tax payers $25k to have a baby but an illegal immigrant can have an anchor baby for $4k or less, on the tax payers dime, is absolutely insane.\n\nCould you provide some sources for these numbers?", "Evidently not. You can't apply while in the country illegally. ", "You can't seek citizenship as an undocumented immigrant without being deported, good luck trying to get back in after that ordeal.", "\"Who needs research when we can just use personal anecdotes because everybody experiences the exact same things in life.\"", "Eminent domain. Let's start the process yesterday. It is in the best interest of the United States to keep these people out. ", "No, I'm saying it's ridiculous to rely on only US Citizenship to decide if it's morally right for someone to live here. ", "THEN CHANGE IT.\n\nYou can't just violate the law because you want to.", "I'm not shocked this is still taught in high schools across America. ", "This is terrible. Is there anything we can do to help this guy?", "Tell you what: I'll be OK with requiring ID and registration before you can vote if you're OK with ID and registration before you can buy a gun.", "Yea it's too bad people are only capable of learning a single language. All those poor people that move abroad and never are able to understand the language of their new country for the rest of their lives.....\n\nThe way you talk about Mexico makes it sound like you consider it a shithole country also. ", "So he could never return?", "They use dead people SSN ", "Yes. So you exit, and apply. Is it hard? Sure it is, but why should he just ignore the law? He should have done that ASAP to avoid the exact problem that happened today. It's not his fault that he's illegal immigrant but it is his fault that he's being parted with his family. He chose to ignore a problem which only exasperated it.", "Seriously. I'm flabbergasted at how many people think employers pay what they do just to intentionally be assholes. It's business, and there is demand like anything else. People like to act all noble and say if they owned a company they'd pay X amount to all their employees. But they don't know how it works, nor do many places really pay a substantial amount more than their competitors. You can make your company a great place to work, offer good benefits and such, but you're not likely to find two places of similar stature paying wildly different wages.", "I was told that only the bad hombres would be deported.\n\nThis Jorge Garcia must be a bad hombre. He did something wrong. I mean would Trump lie to us?\n\nsmh", "I remember starting college and watching the Daily Show too. Grrr republicans are bad. Learn how to have common ground and civil discourse rather than just bashing you queef ", "It's not based on xenophobia, we allow refugees and immigrants from all over the world. We don't block any race or religion from legally immigrating here.\n\nMaybe we should allow more legal immigration, and I'd be for that. But we need limits of some sort, we physically cannot support the number of people that would like to immigrate here.", "That german man was a war criminal. And Elian Gonzales wasn't living and paying taxes in america for 30 years.\n\nThats really all you've got, huh?", "I have a feeling if he is stupid enough to post that ignorant fucking comment, he's not going to listen to any amount of evidence put in front of him.", "Agreed", "And if our immigration laws were enforced back then as they are being enforced now, this would have been caught far sooner. ", "Uh the whole reason he is illegal is because his parents brought him here when he was ten. It's not like he had a choice. Once he was 18 and could actually maybe do something about his immigration status it was already too late and he'd have to spend 10 years in a country he probably doesn't remember all that well.", "Sorry I’m not a compete asshole. He was forced into this country by his parents. He didn’t go anything wrong. He lived his life here and deserves to stay. What’s wrong w you? ", "When looking for options for my ex who was legally adopted by a US citizen, the lawyer said only way was through marriage or adoption before 16 (which her other lawyer botched)\n\nShe had overstayed her tourist visa", "Yes, I look forward to the pictures where ICE is telling the 2-10 year olds to chin up and take responsibility for themselves when they get sent to a country they may not have seen since birth.", "You're also leaving out the fact that our immigration laws back then were much more practical and conducive to allow those wishing to immigrate legally to do so. Right now they are impossibly difficult for the people who need it the most.", "I guess 10 is 16 in brown people years. MAGA.\n\nsigh... /s", "I’m not sure this qualifies as intolerance. It’s certainly a shinning symbol of a system that is incredibly broken. I say if a person manages to stay in the country from childhood to adulthood (maybe a set of rules slightly more sophisticated), shows that he has a good track record (I.e. no criminal record) he should get citizenship by default. We need more law abiding people as citizens. ", "Bullshit. The actual reason Obama's deportation numbers are laughingly inflated is because during his term, they counted every \"catch and release\" that happened at the border as a bonafide deportation.", "Get what done? It's not that easy. You don't get it from a vending machine.", "They can also apply for an ITIN and work for certain contractors.", "In Canada only rich people and those with specific degrees can work/live there.\n\nIn America we give a lot of oppertunities to the poor that immigrate illegally, such as public education.\n\nIllegal immigrant children won't get into Canadian public schools without documentation.", "Well apparently this UK national knows more about our laws than u do since trump has yet to pass a real immigration law this has been law for quiet a while and guess what happened under Obama as well. Sucks to suck but the law is the law and it has been for a while. ", "Taxation is not theft. Taxes are what pay for infrastructure, welfare, public education, and anything else provided by the public sector.\n\nTry to imagine where you'd be in life without the benefit of any tax-funded programs.\n\nThis isn't to say that I believe that the US has a good tax system (far from it), but taxes are not evil.", "My life is not perfect. It’s a way of saying I am greatly saddened! Just like any proper southern woman would say, “bless your heart”, because you are coming across as an ignorant jerk. ", "Well maybe over the course of the last fucking 30 years he should of tried to become a LEGAL citizen?? Noone to blame but himself.", "This isnt actually necessarily true, i hate to say this but its the truth, there is alot more to this that people arent talking about and there for have lack of knowledge on this situation. People that dont want to become citizens, i know, sometimes dont because its financially better to do so.\nIf your illegal you can still get government benefits, (Welfare, Medicaid and a rent program to help pay your rent) and when you work the government wont know about it and you dont get taxes taken out.\nOver here we have immigration lawyers everywhere. And it is not hard to become a citizen like people think.\n", "Why do you act like Mexico is so bad? Are you saying something bad about Mexico? Why can't he just get a job in Mexico. He's American schooled?", "If his wife is a citizen, why doesn't she sponsor him? I sponsored my husband.", "If only previous leadership in this country hadn't left the door open for this to happen. Blue and red. ;)", "Just pick 9 numbers. You now have a fake SSN", "10 years is pretty good too. Most of my family is finally coming after 17 years on file.", "You are talking about a child. A fucking child. What the fuck are you going on about the ignorance of the law? ", "Given so many of the comments, even on a place like Reddit, it's apparent that humanity is still very far away from ascending past this sort of thing. It's not similar to social issues such as whether it's acceptable to smoke in public or even whether the many people who don't fit into the traditional ideas of heterosexual males and hetrosexual females should be able to join in legal bonds with the same benefits as \"normal people\". \n\nThis is something that would require a fundamental change in the overall human condition to ascend past. We may never do it. In 2018 and beyond, we will continue to allow the side of an arbitrary line someone was born on to be pivotal. This will continue to determine what in life they can do, where they can't easily go despite this not being true for other humans, and whether they should be scared to contact the police for valid reasons if they're in the wrong place on the planet we were all born on the same.\n\nIf anyone in the distant future should read this with both the technology and actual desire to restore the consciousness of humans who are no longer alive, please consider not doing so for mine unless humanity (or what has become of it) has ascended past the problem I've described. I don't want to face entities who make the exisistences of others hellish for stupid, ancient reasons, such as the colour of their skin or where they were born on a map, both things they have no control over.\n\nHow humanity has come to allow silly categories to be so important in how they treat others is easy to understand—our society likely wouldn't have gotten anywhere had we not allowed the natural dispositions brought by evolution to affect our decisions. What's not easy to understand is how we've gotten to the point where I, a layman, can publish these words for almost the entire world to see with awesome technologies relating to computing and the internet, while we still allow primitive forces to play in what could be a much more beautiful world.", "Sorry, let’s use racism and xenophobia. And yeah, I’m intolerant of people who hold those views. As everyone should be.", "Only because, you ignorant morons don't seem to understand that bringing him to justice involves deporting a tax payer, destroying a family, and costing other tax payers money, and seems to bring no freedom, happiness or money to anyone else. ", "> their only hope is to call it a false equivalency\n\n\nahh, there it is.", "Actually he couldn't. Gotta leave first (when he was 10) in order to begin the immigration process. You can't apply why you're already here.", "Of course you don't.", "> respect for the other individual.\n\n> Taxation is Theft\n\nHow's high school going?\n\n", "I will never justify in any way a government separating a loving father from his children and any one who does is nothing less than an inhuman monster. Hope you sleep well at night. Goodbye.", "I mean I’m just replying to your low effort insult pal. It was pretty bad and full of zero thought process. Do you just enjoy fishing for karma with dumb sentences put together regularly? Probably, that’s my guess.", "I know what you meant and I laughed at the stupidity of it. No need to elaborate. ", "No he should be punished. We have laws in this country you dumbass liberal. ", "Every conservative position can be traced back to \"well i hadn't considered that...\" because people are sheltered. People actually think that racism no longer exists and that being poor is a choice. They really don't get it that every single version of capitalism requires that some amount of people live in poverty.\n\nSometimes people have to go where the world takes them, or they have to break the law because following it means that they (or their family) might die.", "You actually used the “I know someone who’s X therefore I’m not Y” argument unironically lmao", "You think the kid who came here illegally at 10 years old has proper identification? ", "Could you just go back to Africa, then? ", "Not physically possible for him to do so.", "That chart is missing the NAFTA Visa, \"TN\", which allows a skilled worker to get a Visa in a couple of days. It does assume that you have no intention of staying in the US long-term, though. ", "Sorry Musaylimah, it looks like your dad shoplifted a Walmart when you were with him, so it looks like we're gonna have to jail you for theft.", "This is so fucking wrong. As someone who legally immigrated in a process that took over a year this just straight up disgusts me. I love this new country I call home and all the wonder people I have met. But when immigration comes up in any conversation things get really ugly quick. Fuck the guy was only ten and it wasn't even his choice. He has built his entire life here. Fuck this boils my blood.", "This is why I was a huge fan of \"felons not families\"", "mexicans or people with mexican origins love spouting this retarded trope but then you ask them about illegal guatemalans their tone changes. lol. \"illegal\" is short for \"illegal immigrant\". which means you immigrated illegally. the last time i checked, there are processes for immigration. hopping the border isn't one of them.", "You’re right, they do have a choice. My point is that they’ll probably stay in America and cost taxpayers more money in the long run than if Jorge was allowed to stay. ", "No. They apply for their own ITIN ( Individual Taxpayer Identification Number) That number belongs to them and no one else.", "Or maybe i have a different opinion than you? I've been to college and have seen more of this country then i bet you have...the good parts and the bad.", "Awesome logic. He had 30 years to correct his status here. He chose not to. This is all on him and him alone. ", "Shithole administration of a shithole country being shitholes to decent people.", "Oh well. Follow the rules then", "You do realize that when you come in illegally into the states and leave to try and come back in legally, you still have to ask for forgiveness and pay a punishment right? Still then it's not guaranteed that he'd get it.\n\nSource - I know people who had to do this. They were never deported. They went on their own to try and come back in legally. ", "It's all over this thread. Callous people. Is this really how people believe tax payer money should be allocated ? Tracking people who under unfortunate circumstances ended up here illegally but are otherwise law abiding and paying taxes and part of the community? ", "That makes sense for that guy but for me I'm going to Europe. No easy access to warm places for me in Canada.", "so you think that a man getting away with a crime for 30 years and then finally getting caught creates an injustice against the criminal? \n\nI don't think that word means what you think it does.", "Or travel through a tunnel. Those people will hold you for ransom even after you've paid them though.", "Tracking....... found. Ice agents are on the way.", "Heh, what if he calls us \"triggered\"??? I wouldn't be able to cope with that... ", "That's 10 years to APPLY. He most likely would never be approved for another visa anyway. The 10 years is not \"wait and come back later\", it's \"wait and asks us again in 10 years\", at which point they're going to say \"your visa is denied because previously you have entered illegally\".", "How so? It's not like it's a derogatory term. ", "What was he supposed to do? He was a child when he entered the US and when he turned 18 there was no way for him to stay in the US other than illegally.", "That's exactly what we are trying to do and this post is aimed at!\n\nInstead conservatives would rather hate this man because he technically broke a stupid, unjust law. ", "I think we agree on more than it would seem at first. I also agree that we need an overhaul. We need to make reasonable pathways to legal status that don’t incentivize this sort of thing. I am also totally OK with enforcing the current laws, I just think that resources could be better spent elsewhere. And I hope that soon the laws change so that we keep our criminals but give opportunities to otherwise good people. ", "If the crime involves a progressive leftist agenda then you're golden. Freeing lab animals? Reddit's got your back. Spray painting a rebel flag on a church? You're on your own. Charged with disturbing the peace while screaming at cis white male scum? Fedora tips o plenty. You get the idea.", "Only possible if you didn't enter with the intent to stay permanently ;)", "[Illegal immigration costs the U.S. over $100 billion dollars a year.](https://youtu.be/H8lLU7XjcWc)\n\n> Illegal immigrants are often paid less than their legal counterparts, leading not only to exploitation, but a lowering of wages and working conditions for everyone. Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $28.8 Billion in costs on the federal government in 2009 and paid only $9.5 Billion in Taxes (A deficit of $19.3 Billion).", "From what others are saying in this thread, he has to leave the US and is barred from applying for citizenship for 10 years. After that, he might be able to apply.", "Because he got to the US illegally. You can’t apply for a green card if you entered the country unlawfully. ", "Try living it.", "A person ", "> And guess what I don’t get my news from Fox. I’m more of a OANN guy.\n\nYou'll notice that I never brought up Fox News. My point still remains, however. You still like to watch conservative media that panders to your chosen opinion. Try getting news from multiple sources and realizing that all sides are telling you the things they want you to hear, not what you should be hearing.\n\n> Even if trump did say shithole countries I don’t see what the fuss is about.\n\nNice backtrack. You had no clue that there was actual evidence that he said it, did you? Fucking muppet.\n\n> Do you not hear about all the terrorist attacks? \n\nYep, I've heard about and seen multiple terrorist attacks on our soil by far-right extremists. Don't see Trump saying anything about those.\n\n> Trump has done more for this economy and Americans than Obama ever did.\n\nThe economy takes time to change. One year into a presidency will still be feeling the effects of the previous administration. On top of that, the economy is way more complex than you clearly know. The decisions of companies and consumers do more to affect the economy than what the government does. Trump has done very little that has had an observable effect. We'll see what happens with the tax bill in about a year. That's when you can give him credit for something.\n\nAlso, \"Obama\" created more jobs in 2011 and 2013-2016 than Trump did last year. Job growth has been wonderful since 2010. I'd say Trump has some catching up to do still.\n\n> No you won’t find that on Washington compost or CNN.\n\nAgain with this bullshit? I know you are too dead set in your ways to listen to someone else's opinion (which is why you prefer to hear your own opinion from someone else's mouth) but you really need to branch out in your media exposure. You can keep insulting the Washington Post and CNN all you want, but I get my news from a wide variety of sources (even OANN on occasion). Anything worth reporting is being reported by multiple sources. Look at how they are reporting it and see the bias for yourself. Or keep burying your head in the \"Conservative\" sand.\n\n> Either way majority of Americans agree with my views and that’s why trump won and will win again\n\nDid Trump teach you that it's okay to say something so blatantly false that people would be laughing too hard to correct you? Trump didn't even win the popular vote, only 60% of voting age people voted in 2016, and plenty of people who voted for him are showing regret based on his actions. What a foolish statement without a shred of evidence to back it up. I'm not even sure Trump would say something that obviously false. Who am I kidding, yes he would.", "Punishing kids for the parents’ fault makes sense, then?", "Are you implying that we should value people based on how much they contribute to the economy? ", "Non-US-Citizen - \"Hi government of USA, my parent's brought me here a long time ago when I was a kid and when I turned 18 and had no money, I had to work to survive. I had hoped to save money and worked and worked but the pay was barely enough to cover life expenses so a trip to my \"home country\" wasn't a safe option for me.\"\n\nUS-Citizen - \"You must be \"fuckin retarded\"! You should have left when you turned 18 and applied the legal way because that's the law! Your parent's crime will not go unpunished! Too bad!\"\n\nNon-US-Citizen - \"How was I supposed to leave and do as you asked without money?\n\nUS-Citizen - \"Not our problem! Bye bye.\"\n\nIf I was a god, I would have anyone saying that he did things wrong be born into a similar situation.", "Everybody in America who has slave blood in them needs to get shipped back to wherever they came from too, by this logic, right? The man being deported had 0 say in coming to America. He was a child, literally in the 4th or 5th grade. So the whole bloodline of everyone who got picked up by the slave trade, with no choice in the matter, needs to go back too. Right? They all seem to be guilty of a crime they didn’t commit (not being born in the “correct” place).", "Muh enlightened centrism ", "Not sure where this article references this man’s criminal record?", "Or they could stay here.. the country where they were raised.. ", "This guy has never paid taxes, unless he was using a stolen SSN which is identity fraud.", "Illegals is too broad of a term and isn't the term used by our courts or ICE. It's also pretty derogatory considering that I doubt many people call other criminals illegals.", "You are right, leaving the country is something a child can’t do. But he eventually became an adult right? Sounds like he had no intention of even formulating a plan to become legal.\nAnd don’t bring up the whole difficulty of becoming legal and getting a green card, because I know first hand.\nHe could have made a plan. Researched what he needed to do, saved up money he would need to accomplish this, etc.", "His parents are to blame. They entered illegally. Just like I can't go to Canada if I wanted to with my family ", "People elected the moron because they saw themselves in some part of that moron.", "Lmfao mindless dumbshit. Obama deported more people than any president, ever. ", "Was not physically possible for him to get it. No procrastination whatsoever.", "I’d gladly trade 1000 Americans like you for just one of these “illegals” that are being deported and ripping apart families. \n\nBut with your attitude I wouldn’t expect for you to look at the bigger picture. ", "I'm willing to bet that there's something on his record we aren't being told. Immigration court doesn't just select random people to deport. There's a long process he's gone through to get to this point.", "Some laws should be disregarded, yes. It has been done historically. It happens a lot. Laws are not sacred. They are not perfect. If a law is good, it should be respected and upheld. Bad laws should be challenged, and changed. This is how society functions. Take another look at your history, dude.\n\nThe law should be changed. In the meantime, that father should get to stay with his family. I don't care about your whiny xenophobic tears.", "If you found out tomorrow that your family lied to you regarding their lawful immigration and it turned out that actually you are an illegal, what would you do?", "If that man deserves to be punished for the sins of his father and mother, then white people with slave-owning ancestors deserve to go to jail", "Unless it was voluntary removal like the guy you're responding too said. If that is the case, and it very well may be, he can apply to enter the US through a K2 (I think) visa since he is married to a USC tomorrow. A VR means it isn't on his record, and basically him being here illegally never happened", "Like i have told other people, look up cancellation of removal.", "Nah, if you do the right thing and follow the process, it's easy enough. Not to mention in a public case like this, the Immigration Minister would intervene and flex the rules somewhat.", "How can there be resources for that particular customer if they've dodged any and all taxes in their time at Disney that help compensate for said helpful resources? ", "Didn’t this guys wife vote for trump? ", "Where are you getting your information from? ", "And you should move to your ancestors homeland. This country wasn’t intended for those with your mindset. ", "The social support system. They'd need housing, medical care, and jobs or other financial support, possibly language classes or other help integrating into American society. Unless we're willing to let them live in vast unregulated tent cities. Also we'd still need to perform the same vetting process so I don't even know if \"opening the borders\" would even increase the rate of immigration unless the government put more resources into it.", "The IRS will issue an ITIN regardless of legal status. They just want their money.\n\nhttps://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/general-itin-information", "That whooshing sound over your head?\nThat was the point. <sigh>\n“Undocumented”......gtfo.", "Looks like he’s old enough to have become a citizen for about 40 years..... what was he waiting for?", "He was a child for eight years after arrival. He either continued to live ignorant of the law or actively decided to violate the law. Take your pick.", "I don't see why some people say it's too hard to become a citizen. That's the point. We're not supposed to let just anyone in and let them become US citizens. We need to pick the best people who will contribute the most to society. However, like this man, if you're brought as a small child against your decision, there should be more leniency. ", "You act like it's just a form you need to fill out.", "You're in the party that's trying to 'correct' everybody's language in this thread. ", "Yea sorry but I don't think this man should be made an example of for the sake of a \"Shock and Awe\" effect on our political discourse. This is a human being whose life just got ruined to some degree by our government for arbitrary reasons. ", "Why would I live in such a shithole of a country? Ive spent my life working towards making America a better place for mankind and I plan to continue doing that. I also support Trump but it seems we disagree on this issue. ", "Because he entered illegally, Duh. And he has a wife, so he's not the sole support of this family. I feel sorry for this family but he should be deported. \n\nIf he's divorced and made no arrangement for his children knowing full well that one day he could be deported because he's an illegal immigrant, then that's this fault. ", "You're correct.", "Hey man ditto. I'll come congratulate you too when you die of some terrible thing that's the consequences of your actions. Can you come see me too and let me know as well?", "You're replying to a comment that's making fun of all the other stupid comments in this thread, and then you start talking about the deported dad as if you've confused whom and what you replied to. The comment you reply to is not about the article , but about all of the self-proclaimed experts posting replies. There are countless redditors whom are questioning why he just didn't do such and such to stay in the country", "Oh my gooooood. There are a handful of links there. Browse to your heart's content.\n\n", "Seems like some smug asshole redditors dont understand the situation here. He got brought to america by his parents when he was 10, so the hypothetical comparisons to how if someone entered a country illegaly with his/her adult situation, brain and knowledge does not apply. Also, the reason why he didnt apply for citizenship in those 30 years is because he cant unless he leaves his home and family in the US. You can say well, perhaps he should have done that. However, I wont be hypocritical because even I dont know enough about americas complicated immigration system to know how to go about that, especially if I was already here for so long with kids.", "Does anyone care that had this been a story about almost any other country in the world, there would have been a legnthy prison sentence before deportation, or some major fines at the least. As much as people bitch about our shitty immigration laws, ours tend to be some of the least restrictive anywhere in the world. Good luck moving to Canada, Australia, most of Europe, Japan, or even Mexico without sponsors, jobs lined up, and a fat bank account. ", "Then you clearly haven't begun to consider the consequences. Open borders with open citizenship would just see millions a year flooding into the US and becoming a huge strain on our social programs. \n\nWe'd see tons of current residents, especially the poor, priced out of housing due to the spike in demand. \n\nThis is just a really shit idea in every way.", "This is a horrible situation and I understand the point you’re making, obviously, I agree he should not be uprooted. But it doesn’t take you 10 years to learn a language lol. \n\nAmerican foreign exchange students leave this country all the time and come back fluent in other languages. I know the whitest of white girls, did rotary exchange after she graduated high school and went to Taiwan without knowing more than the most basic of Mandarin (hello, goodbye, my name is, etc) and came back fluent after 8 months. Immersive learning is key. ", "Dat karma grab ", "Fuck this administration and its racist policies. Fucking guy should be allowed to stay with his family. He was brought here as a child. Didn't choose this life himself. Fuck Trump and Co. ", "There’s always that one turd that floats in the toilet bowl. I was waiting for you to show up.", "As someone who is neither staunchly conservative nor a bleeding heart liberal, I have mixed feelings about this sort of thing. I agree that it's very sad/unfortunate that things like this have to happen, but sometimes the right thing isn't always the thing that makes people happy. If he was here against the law, then he has to go through the immigration process like everybody else. I'm not going to go on a rant about how illegal immigrants are \"ruining this country\" but it's unfair to people who actually go through the immigration process the right way that there's hundreds of thousands of people who just skip the process. Especially since a lot of those people don't pay taxes either, and proper immigrants (as far as I'm aware) do. ", "Referring to them as \"babies\" seems to trivialize the fact that most of them are grown sociopaths with severe issues.", "Because he never applied for citizenship", "Hmm, seems like a thing you shouldn't try if you're completely broke.\n\n[But that's just Canada](https://youtu.be/Ny8RY4Ou7Mo)", ">Because if Donald Duck wasn't president there's no way you'd be campaigning this hard about it.\n\nThank you. The staggering hypocrisy of u/chlomyster and his ilk on the sub is so obvious.\n\nI wonder if they ever bothered to shed crocodile tears because of the struggles legal immigrants face with the loss of H4 EAD, 20yr wait times to get a GC and having to immediately leave the country with family after a job loss. \n\nI don't see them protesting for H1B and other legal immigrant struggles. ", "What does this have to do with MLK?", "Yeah, because 10 year olds can make decisions on whether or not to have there parents bring them here illegally. And we are so sure he knew exactly what was happening when his parents brought him here 30 years ago. \n\nPull your fucking head out of your ass you soulless fucking twat. Try again with a logical argument, but until then go get you circut boards calibrated to include human emotion you robot. ", "Tell that to the Founding Fathers", "Straw man ", "It’s fucking criminal to do this to these people. ", "It used to be illegal to assist an escaping slave instead of \"returning\" him to his \"master\".\n\nIt used to be illegal to be African American and use federal institutions that were only specified for the fairer skinned.\n\nOf course, those who instated these racist \"laws\" had many reasons as to why they should be in place and forced upon society.", "Yes they would.\n\n\nThey'd probably be even more insensitive about it.", ">they immigrated. They didn't have legal documents to do so. \n\nBut they could have gotten legal documents. They chose not to.\n\nThat's like saying someone driving without a license is an undocumented driver.\n\nNo, they're driving illegally without a license.\n\n", "I for one agree with you and hope we can deport, or ideally execute every criminal under 15 years old. Why have to pay taxes to keep them alive for decades in a prison? Just kill them quick and easy.", "Not if you're not in the country legally. Marriage to a US citizen isn't necessarily a 'golden ticket' to permanent residency. ", "They \"designed\" half of the southern US for them, but then Mexican-American war happened.", "Exactly. 30 years is a long-ass time to not go through the process.\n\nThe rest of this thread is full of steamy shit. ", "why didn't you apply to legally stay here while you were here?", "I understand you are Australian, and don't get me wrong, in his situation I sympathize with him. I am American, but I personally don't think it's even slightly possible he paid the IRS for every year he worked, and just now is being deported.", "Yeah. Agreed. ", "So what, my family immigrated legally. His could of to. Not my fault, it is his fault. He was knowingly breaking the law. ", "Implying he didn't know he was in the wrong? \n\nWhat did he do to remedy this over the past thirty years?", "He knew.", "I thought this country was about the American dream but apparently not. What ever happened to freedom and equality. ", "Right his wrongs? He was 10 when he got here. He didn’t have a choice. Even after 20 years, he was just doing what he grew up knowing. This is not his fault.", "MLK was not a socialist. Malcolm X was a socialist. And a fucking good one.", "you should have more sympathy, those poor people trying to have a better life and their best option is the states, that'd make me cry..", "Ehh, because he couldn't? He's undocumented, pretty sure you can't just 'register' if you have no legal status in the U.S.", "Nobody is asking for unlimited immigration. \n\nThis man was brought here at 10 years old and had no practical legal way of becoming a citizen. That's a problem. ", "I suspect if he came out of the shadows and tried for citizenship he would have been deported. His parents brought him here when he was 10.", "Yes, his parents are to blame. So is it fair that he suffers the consequences for his parents' actions?", "More opportunity for his wife and kids in the states? Better lives? Even if their father isn't with them, I'm sure that's what he wants", "Refugee != immigrant. People are absolutely saying it should be a charity, [as keeping these people in the US drains the government.](https://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fiscal-cost-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer) ", "I feel safer now.", "The Kanye approach. Nice", "You are a fucking douche", " If you really thought about the negative impact that would have you wouldn't say such ridiculous things.", "Mexico being a shithole since all their workforce is illegally entering America. ", "Great, so you've contributed nothing to the conversation. r/iamverysmart is that way.", "Are you a lawyer? Asking for a friend", "Racist", "It is. But acknowledging that doesn’t really solve anything. It’s their parents fault and the only way to prevent other parents from screwing over their kids is to increase border security and ramp up immigration enforcement before these kids end up living here for 30 years. ", "In 30 years why didn’t he become a citizen. I am first gen American. Both my parents did. ", "Yes it is.\n\nCancellation of removal\n\nCancellation of removal is a form of relief available to people facing deportation. Illegal immigrants may earn a green card if they:\n\n* Have continuously lived in the U.S. for at least 10 years.\n* Have been a person of \"good moral character.\"\n* Have not been convicted of a crime.\n* Can prove removal would result in \"exceptional and extremely unusual hardship\" to the alien's spouse, parent, or child who is a U.S. citizen or legal permanent resident.\n\nThis guy had ample time to get this done (22 years). DACA isn't an issue here.", "for a lot of immigrants living illegally in the u.s., even with all of the uncertainty around legal status, is far preferable to the situation they left. It’s not like they just decided hey, let’s go to america, they may have been fleeing extreme poverty, famine, gang violence, or any number of things we can’t possibly imagine. And if the immigration system is stacked against people like that, they don’t have many other options to escape it.", "There are a multitude of other arguments for stricter immigration control. ", "Yes you are right, it is almost impossible to become a Japanese citizen as an immigrant. \n\nI should have said that the law on dealing with illegal immigrants in Japan and America is very similar, but in Japan it is enforced efficient and quickly and universally while in the USA, enforcement is and has for decades been extremely loose, arbitrary, inefficient, inconsistent, etc. hence why there are literally millions of illegals who have lived in America for years or even decades. ", "She must not be from one of those \"shithole countries\"", "10 year old kid is supposed to know he is illegal in this country. Most kids don't find out until they wanna get a job and can't. By them they are pretty much indoctrinated into this country and it's ideals. ", "This would be more upsetting if he wasnt brought here illegally", "Because the chart is about citizenship, not temporary work visas.", "There's a reason we need immigration laws though. Completely open borders would be chaos", "What I think is irrelvant since it's not opinion based, I'm asking whether the US immigration sytem has a way to allow someone that was raised in the US illegaly to fix their situation !\n\nIt's not rhetorical, it's an actual question :p", "The crazy part is where people assume that the average immigrant has a negative effect on society.", "I didn’t even have to click on your name to know what community you’re active in lol", "The forefathers who, of course, themselves launched an extremely illegal revolution.", "> I don't see them protesting for H1B and other legal immigrant struggles. \n\nYou wouldn't even recognize me if you saw me protesting so please don't claim to know what I care about, when I care about it, and how I show it.", "So he didn’t come by choice. That’s fine. However, He also was there long enough to get married, have kids. Your trying to say he didn’t have a choice there? He should’ve figured his shit out before he dug himself into a hole.", "I’m sure he was productive, for himself/family and whoever he worked for. 30 years of tax free work and you wanna put him on a pedestal? Christ sake, you liberals are just too emotional for any logic, ", "I know, I was disgusted when I put down the ladle and saw you floating in my glass.", "Affirmative action discriminates based on inherited traits and economic status of your parents, so most of the developed world practices it too in one way or another.", "It's unfortunate too, because a 10 y/o kid has a lot of say in where they decide to grow up. :/", "Not to mention everything they buy has tax on it, just like the rest of us. It's not like you go to the grocery store and pull out your Illegal Immigrant card and get tax removed like you're a church. ", "\"Doesn't belong here\", STFU", "Income tax is paid because undocumented people can get tax ID numbers, and sometimes stolen SSN, and taxes are deducted from paycheck. Undocumented people pay sales tax like everybody else. Property taxes are paid through rent, because landlord factors that into rent cost.\n\nTL;DR: yes, they pay taxes and do not benefit from social safety net.", "So hes the asshole? \nI guess white people are assholes because of their ancestors then by that logic lmao.", "What are we doing in this country? W. T. F. Are we doing? ", "Take a look at the post I was responding to. ", "How about you cast just as much blame on previous governments for creating this mess as well? Instead of just the guy that's at least finally doing something about it. There is no perfect solution someone's going to get burned no matter what trump does.", "And if you came in as a 10-year old. ", "Why show concern when removal is imminent? ", "That would be a perfect law and it would totally not result in millions of 10 year old immigrants in the very first month after it being in place. ", "do we judge the son for thy father's sins?\n\nThe one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.\n", "And that's the harsh reality that we live in. His parents set him up for failure from the very start. But a sad story doesn't exclude you from the law. ", "Fuck this shit. I am proud to be an American, but ashamed of our current president. He has done more damage in the past year, than any 3 year old with a red crayon locked in a room with 4 white walls could ever do. What he has done and continues to do will take years to repair. And this is just one family's story. ", "Naivety and unrelenting stupidity are different concepts. ", "One of MLK's big things was to fight against injustice, including unjust laws. ", "Lol, it’s hilarious how you think these people are just stupid and didn’t think about that. Don’t you think he has a job to keep, a family to sustain, children to raise? As if it was that easy and as if this man hadn’t looked before for his options. ", "This happened to a white European family member of mine, was that racist too?", "It's sad but what does this have to do with Dr King? This is an immigration issue, not an equal rights issue.", "The government doesn't verify it was issued by them when it is used?", "Undocumented immigrants provide low cost labor that contributes enormously to our economy. It’s disingenuous to say that their presence “isn’t good for anyone”.\n\nI just bought affordable produce and put it away in the house I built for $125/sq ft. But I’m going out for dinner, where I will pay about $10/person for an amazing meal. Like many people, I regularly benefit from the presence of undocumented immigrants.", "Sounds like the law was carried out. Neat. ", "Mhm so let me get this straight then? You grow up, go to school, maybe work here and develop your language skills to a better degree than your native one. Then at age 18 you are supposed to now abandon your family, friends, life and move to a country which you don't understand, have nobody, then must wait patiently while the system evaluates you with no garuntee or merit to be able to then be able to enter the country you grew up in. Sir you should work for ICE because that is some mental gymnastics the likes of which i cannot comprehend. ", "You’re just wrong. You don’t know what you’re talking about.\n\n\n>“You can’t talk about ending the slums without first saying profit must be taken out of the slums. . . . There must be a better distribution of wealth . . .And maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism.”\n\n\n-MLK, 1966\n\n\n\n>Yet with his basic thesis I would concur. Our economic system is going through a radical change, and certainly this change is needed. I would certainly welcome the day to come when there will be a nationalization of industry. Let us continue to hope, work, and pray that in the future we will live to see a warless world, a better distribution of wealth\n\n-MLK in a letter to Coretta Scott King\n\n\nYou’re just wrong. We can’t “agree to disagree”. You’re wrong.\n\n\n\n", "Since he had kids here I thought he could stay.", "You have to be tough on a 10 year old child being dragged here by his parents and making something of his life in this country? You \n\nIt's a terrible security risk? Jesus Christ, you realize that immigrants commit LESS CRIME than legalized American Citizens per person, correct? \n\nToo bad the native american's didn't have a tougher \"immigration\" policy. Your joke of a \"reasonable\" response wasn't very rational at all. \n", "Do you really think he managed to stay in the USA for as long as he did without working? The guy lived in the United States for 30 years, got married, and had two children in that time. He's obviously not a drain on society if he can properly take care of an entire family.\n\n The sort of barbaric punishment that you are suggesting is entirely unconstitutional. Go move to North Korea if you want to see that shit take place.", "I wonder how \"permanent\" it would feel if you were in his shoes.\n\n", "I don’t feel bad at all. At 18 he could have started a process to correct it. His parents fucked him not us", "How did they lie to him? He knew he was here illegally, dont kid yourself.", "It’s called empathy and caring about your fellow humans. You might be a racist deplorable but I still think you deserve every opportunity to succeed regardless of race, nation, creed, gender, sexuality, or identity. \n\nHere’s a wiki article on empathy for you. Might want to study up. \nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy", "If you're saying it shouldn't be easy, you're saying that some people shouldn't have them. You're literally arguing that some people aren't good enough to vote. Maybe let's not try to pretend we're superior?", "You have to weigh that against what goes on now which is just hide and hope you never get caught. Along the way, that opens people up to all kinds of abuse from people who could deport them. Also, can you imagine the cost of trying to deport millions of illegal immigrants? It's a really sticky problem. You can't really stop people from coming in, as most illegal immigrants come here legally and simply overstay their visas. You can't really deport all the illegal immigrants, so the question then becomes what to do with the ones here. You end up having to pick and choose who stays and who goes. In this case, although the guy absolutely was here illegally, allowing a path to legal immigration would have been a far better choice.", "Me too. Thanks Donald. ", "I agree with you. Very unfortunate that this occurred. But I think we need to take a step back as a society and re-evaluate, where do my problems end, and yours begin. My problems are not his problems. Sounds heartless, but I feel if we stopped caring about EVERY DAMN INDIVIDUAL and worked to repair the group, we'd be better off. ", "🤔", "A t_D poster with a political opinion? Of course they don't understand how the immigration system works.", "They must go back", "If you bring yourself and your children to Disneyland without paying by secretly crossing the walls, why blame Disneyland for kicking you out when they find out?", "They would see his previous deportation as proof of immigrant intent, which is not allowed under TN status. ", "Fucking Bob. Making us buy lambos and shit.", "Unbeatable argument", "Goddamn! Is there anything on reddit that isn't pure propaganda?", "Why couldn't they return to Mexico with dad?", "So, we should permanently establish Daca and build a wall at the same time? Hmm that idea sounds familiar.", "Yes it was literally just December 13th! He came on an F1 instead of K1 because he wanted to get a degree here and transfer from his school anyway and it’s cheaper so two birds with one stone. We submitted the application on May 30 and got the interview notice December 30. The speed varies a ton on your documents and whichever processing center it goes to; some take longer. Anywhere between 7 and 16 months is normal. \n\nOur interview was like nothing. He had been here since May of 2016 and we married in July of 2016. We had good paperwork, which means shared accounts (banking especially), leases for apartments/etc under both of our names, lots of pictures together, a bit of a waiting period between marrying and filing (our VO said that it’s a red flag when someone applies for PR ASAP after the wedding), and he was on my vision and dental insurance at work. \n\nMy income was enough (has to be like 125% or something of federal poverty level by household size) to be his “sponsor”, so that wasn’t a problem and they didn’t have to ask about or get documents for that. \n\nWe basically went in together. The VO said they usually separate people but since our paperwork was very convincing and complete there was no need. She asked us each questions but we were together and he forgot our anniversary (he always does) and I gave him a ton of shit about it which she thought was funny. \n\nWe submitted a copy of a lease for a new apartment (if you have had any new accounts or anything in both of your names opened since you submitted your paperwork, bring copies of all of it) and some documents of a credit card account we just opened. I gave them an offer letter I had received a few months beforehand from my current job at the time which further supported my income. \n\nWe signed a paper saying everything was true and etc and my husband signed some stuff himself and then she gave us a paper kinda like a receipt and said that she recommended our application for approval, and that basically meant that unless some new negative information (like a crime being committed that they didn’t know about) were to appear that his green card would be in the mail in 2-4 weeks. Since we haven’t been married two entire years yet it is a conditional green card; which just means we will have to get the conditional part removed in December of 2019. It doesn’t change anything at all about the card and it even looks like any old green card, it’s more so that they can be extra sure he won’t get it then ride off into the sunset with his newfound freedom. \n\nWe were nervous for the interview and he was way more nervous than me but like after awhile I didn’t really feel nervous at all because I mean, we ARE genuine and I think it’s super obvious. \n\n", "He fucked up his own life, and before that his parents fucked his life. His parents brought him here. The minute he turned 18 he could have taken his ass across that border and applied for citizenship in a number of ways. Instead he stayed here, hiding out, got married, had kids, and now like his parents, he's fucking over his own kids by being selfish and lazy. \n\nWe have laws and they need to be followed. These laws were around way before Trump, and lots of people got deported WAY before Trump, and will continue to get deported. This isn't an open border country. We are actually more relaxed on immigration than almost any other country in the world, but it's still not an open border to fuck all country. He didn't care about our laws, and there are consequences. \n\n\n\n", "The guy himself is not illegal. He's just a guy. His act of staying in the country was illegal.", "No we don't.", "> He can get in line and come in legally like we all had to.\n\nNo he can't. \n\n> Not to mention we do have a process for this which this scumbag could have tried to apply for citizenship and apparently didn't.\n\nNot really, not without leaving his family for 10+ years. \n\n> Criminals.\n\nNot if we change the laws. ", "That same law put thousands to millions innocent people in jail before someone stand up again it. Laws isn't perfect.", "It's offensive to call an illegal act illegal?\n\nWhat do you propose we call murderers, child molesters, and domestic abusers?", "So whether they know or even care about this. Are we suppose to feel devastated that they come in illegally anyway? ", "Yeah just move out of the country, apply for a visa, wait however many months it takes for you to get accepted without being able to see your wife and kids and potentially never come back, then leave that country to come back and live in America for 5 years, then get naturalized all just in case we get a president who decides to change a law that results in separation of families", " How long does it take to be granted a work visa? He could've gotten that and used that to chill while he got his citizenship worked out.\n\nEither way, he now has to wait to even apply. Sucks that he didn't figure out the correct path to stay with his family", "This isn't because of a trump policy. This has always been law.", "Yep, I'll use that argument when I'm being told I hate brown people based purely on the fact I don't support illegal immigration. ", "You can’t do this in almost any other developed country (like Reddit’s poster child of the week Norway) so why is it so shitty of the US to enforce their borders the same way everywhere else does? ", "I’m not being “that guy “ as this totally sucks but in 30 years couldn’t he have become a citizen?", "Bit thats what he should of done over the last 30 years!", "He had 30 years to achieve legal status.", "You think the US is the only country that would do this? Come on /u/JelliedHam , I know you're smarter than this. ", "Immigration attorney here, you can adjust as long as you entered with status, even if it expired. But even if you entered without inspection (without a visa) you can still get a green card, but you have to apply for a waiver of unlawful status. It's based on extreme hardship for US citizens that rely on you. Mostly used for spousal visas. ", "So when you see a 40 year old father being ripped away from his 2 children after contributing to our nation for the past 30 years, all you see is an \"illegal\" being removed from our country? That's really all you're able to see this as? Holy shit. ", "Nobody cares. He is a person, simple as that.", "GOOD. ", "Once I turned 18 and didn't have to sign up for the draft like my peers, or couldn't get a license at 16, or couldn't get a job at 14 without a ss card, I would be realized my legal status and started making phone calls to Mexico to get my citizen documentation in line. Then, I would've gone to the southern coast and rented a boat or payed a charter to drop me off in Cancun. Next, I would've picked up my documents and started the process as an immigrant with an American citizen wife which takes \"17 months and a couple grand\" according to somebody else in the thread. Finally, id take a picture with the little American flag they give you at the ceremony with friends and family and proudly post a picture on Reddit to farm karma. ", "No. He's a small, cachectic, limp dick.", "Oh, well then nevermind... I didn't know that about the T visa. ", "> Disregard laws, face the consequences. Just because your don't like it, doesn't mean you get to be free from the consequences.\n\n\"Well if those negros didn't want to get beaten they shouldn't have been marching! Disregard laws, face the consequences! Just because your don't like it, doesn't mean you get to be free from the consequences.\"\n\n \\- You, 70 years ago. ", "And yet nothing compared to the amounts that have and hide from taxes", "Or maybe you forgot why that city became so impoverished. You're also confusing your conservative dream of what should be taking place, with the reality of what's actually going to happen (just like most conservative theories of real life) . ", "Well the issue of what tf to do here is partisan so ya can’t get ppl to agree here or compromise. Either you give people a path to citizenship in these cases or ya don’t. We almost had something happen last week but Trump denied it cuz it didn’t include funding for the wall and prob a couple other stupid ass reason. Which putting funding for the wall as the make or break for this kind of issue is stupid af IMO and now according to Trump, DACA is prob dead until they can pass some sort of resolution, but that sure as hell ain’t happening with how divided Congress is now, but who knows.", "Right, but I'm arguing that it's meaningless and honestly more indicative of a lack of understanding of who MLK was. He was a hero, but that does not mean we should use his name wherever we see injustice. ", "Apparently enforcing the law is bad ", "Can’t get deported if you come here legally like I did!", "Mexico makes up about 56% of our illegal population and about 69% of deportations. That disparity is largely because they started counting those caught at the border as deportations and Mexico/Central America wins that category of deportation by a massive margin.\n\nThe bulk of \"interior\" deportations occur as a result of criminal matters. The European and Canadian illegal immigrants are typically much more affluent than their Mexican/Honduran/Salvadorian counterpart and thus less likely to end up in a criminal matter. Hence, they get deported a bit less than would be an equal distribution.", "He's saying that his parents shouldn't have broken the law in the first place by coming here illegally. Why didn't they apply for a green card before they decided to break the law and ruin their sons future by illegally entering the United States?\n\nIt's not the obligation of the American citizen to foot the bill for other people's life choices. Especially when those life choices rely on deceit and deception.", "It doesn’t take ten years. It took my grandmother less than a year. ", "The entire DACA cohort would be allowed to stay in most civilized countries. Lol, I guess?", "Funny, he doesn't look black. ", "Enforcing the law is not indecent. When you’re here illegally you run the risk of being deported, just the fact of the matter.", "At the same time, you (or his parents) know the rules (or should, ignorance is no excuse) when you come here. You don't get to break the rules and then cry when they punish you for it. \n\nWhen you fly past a 55mph sign going 80, are you surprised when you get a ticket? It's the same thing. You may not agree with the speed limit, but it's the speed limit and you know it.", "Except there is literally no way to correct the problem. His options were go into a country he doesn't remember with no money or live here in the weird system we have.", "He was 10 when brought here illegally. Man I know when I was 10 did not have a clue.", "If he is, that's pretty dumb. There's no way to know that, but even if that's true, it doesn't mean the _chances_ of this happening in either administration would have been the same. This administration has cast a strong light on illegal immigrants and has ramped up the efforts there a lot. It's still a valid argument to claim that this is much more _likely_ to have been affected by the current political climate than it would have been under Obama. ", "There are potential ways around the deportation. \n\n1: If he can prove he has been in the US over 10 years, and have been a person \"of upstanding moral character\". Even without DACA.\n\n2: If his removal would lead it \"exceptional and extremely unusual hardship to a spouse, parent, or child who is a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident.\"\n\nHowever, He would be disqualified from both these if he had previously been convicted of a non-misdemeanor crime.\n\nSo him still being deported lead me to think he might have been convicted for one or more felonies while in the US.\n\nWith the illegal alien status, and deportation, the only way back, is to sneak across the border again, at which point he face years in federal prison. ", "He was brought here as a kid. I doubt he made his own choice to come and since they brought him here illegally, there was nothing he could do to become a citizen legally. There's such a thing as compassion and 'legal' doesn't always mean right or moral. A lot of things have been done to infringe on people's rights legally and let's not forget 1930s Germany where helping Jews escape was illegal. ", "What about using his kids citizenship as a way to have applied 10 years ago? \n\n\n\n\n\nThis is heartbreaking", "Just remember this when the Republican candidate says they're \"for the family\"\n\nassuming it is heterosexual, monogamous wife (the guy can cheat as much as he wants), white, and will blindly vote Republican no matter how despicable the candidate.", "I do, in fact, have a Y chromosome and enough age to be counted among men.\n\nLook at you assuming I'm a woman on the basis of making \"a weak argument.\" You should look at those stereotypes you hold. \n\nSeriously, outside of this thread that I have clearly put too much time into and regardless of the strength or weakness of my argumentation here, you have decided I fit the mold of a woman because of the quality of my argument.", "So he didn’t come by choice. That’s fine. However, He also was there long enough to get married, have kids. Your trying to say he didn’t have a choice there? He should’ve figured his shit out before he dug himself into a hole.", "God also said to not commit adultery. Mr. King must have missed that page.\n\nEdit: Love being downvoted for truth.", "If you stay long enough and start a family in his home you'll probably be allowed to stay there forever. I say go for it. ", "He committed the crime of being brought here as a 10 year old, and now 32 years later two kids deserve to lose their father for it. Awesome.", "If your dad stole a car when you were 10 to escape violence that factor would absolutely would be considered in the court case and he may even get acquitted for it because inaction could've led to someones death. Also, If someone gives you a stolen car you should be arrested too then? What? But yeah, he should've uprooted his life entirely, gone to a country he has no roots in anymore, and desperately tried to reenter through a long and expensive process so he could be with his loved ones and not have to fear being deported and going through a long and expensive process to re enter. I guess we shouldn't critize the law that allows honest life-long residents to be deported for the sins of their fathers because Americas just done pretending its not a fundamentally racist place.", "That's not how it works lol. America has the worst immigration system when it comes to getting citizenship. At least 10 years.\n\nSource: international student studying in the US.", "You wouldn't. You'd be called racist names and also be denied rights according to your ethnicity as well.", "A friend at work told me that her daughter bought a Social Security Number from a streetcorner. I want to say the kid paid $50 bucks, but I am not even sure about that.", "Is it fair to the kid? Absolutely not. But countries need to vet the people trying to be citizens and can't reward lawbreakers.", "He has been in the states for 30 years and never applied for a visa or citizenship?", "Yes. If you came illegally, you should get preference over those following the law. After all, you're already here. \nHe should also be able to enter the legal workforce as well. That way he can take your job instead of an underground economy job. ", "Taxes are the price we pay for civilization. ", "When I was young we had to move to a different country because of my dads work. its not tearing their family apart. big effing deal -- they have to move. it was fun while it lasted!", "I suspect if he came out of the shadows and tried for citizenship he would have been deported. His parents brought him here when he was 10.", "Couldn’t he have applied for citizenship within the last 30 years?", "So.... He had 30 years to get his citizenship? Not feeling bad.", "Ah yes, I forgot that segregation was a good thing because it was a law. ", "No, his wait is 10 years. What he and his entire family needs to do is to apply for status in Canada under what's called the [\"Compassionate & Humanitarian Grounds\"](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/refugees/claim-protection-inside-canada/after-apply-next-steps/refusal-options/humanitarian-compassionate-grounds.html) program. It's intended for situations just like this where families south of the border are broken up.\n\nBased on the merits of the title & knowing nothing else their chances of being accepted are good to high.", "Wvp? I'm not sure what that one is. ", "Because we're capitalists and the dollar matters above all so these illegals know they'll get a job.\n\nIf there wasn't work here for all of them, you couldn't pay them to stay here very long.", "Illegal immigrants live in fear of being deported if they seek citizenship. It's a catch-22. Doesn't matter who is in the Oval Office. Even Obama deported a huge number.\n", "You're being technical. That's cool. But you're not helping or adding anything substantial to the conversation. The kid was 10 years old when he came to the US. \n\nMay I ask what you thought might have been his best course of action to take (also please consider his level of knowledge for his age)?", "Oh, I guess he just should have gone back to a country he has never been to, where he doesn’t know any one and no guarantees to see his family ever again. ", "Appealing to authority isn't an actual argument. \n\nJust because the law says something doesn't make it justified. ", "60-80% of our budget is entitlements. Roads, firefighters and power lines are merely a drop in the bucket. ", "i’m ashamed to be american", "We don't want those from shithole countries to come here ", "Great comebacks! I can tell you thought about both of them long and hard with your edits!!!! Ironic.", "These aren't illegal immigrants though. They leave with their US cite in babies, then use those babies status to legally immigrate. I'm not sure of the particulars, the Russians are also doing it in Miami", "Only way is through marriage, and your SO petitioning for you", "As others have said. There is no way forward. And for those that did DACA the President pulled the rug out from under them by revoking it. \n\nAs it was, by definition, the way of working towards resolving the position these kids were put in. \n\nRegardless the comment is “he broke the law” but doesn’t take into consideration that he didn’t commit the crime, was in no position to act at the time and had no way to remediate it after the fact. \n\nJust wanted to be sure it was being considered in the context.", "Trading 1000 people that follow the law and love this country for one person you know nothing about who gives 0 care about this country? You really are a special type of idiot.", "While no one likes it, and I think he should be afforded an opportunity to stay, his removal has zero to do with intolerance, and 100% to do with the law. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it intolerant", "The fact that they don't have anything in Mexico while they have their whole entire lives in the US?", "The problem with your plan there is that even getting a Visa takes time and money and being injected into a now foreign environment wouldn’t have been easy. He does this and lets say he does get his Visa in a timely manner with ample money(which never happens due to the scamming nature of Mexico’s government). The second he became 18 he had a small time frame to do all that and not be branded as a criminal but its a small and costly window. Even after he meets his wife he would still have to go back and wait all over again for a process that just sucks away time and money only to be denied due to illegal entrance. It’s ignorant to say he sat around doing nothing when the situation goes much deeper than that. It’s law breaking and I understand that the law must be upheld but literally thousands of people do try to come in legally to no avail so it discourages people from trying the legal way since it’s a path mostly for those with cash. Its a government issue honestly (mostly Mexican). What irritates me is that these illegal immigrants and homeless very are used as bargaining chips. The government doesn’t really care about either but it certainly does push idiots to their side who believe they care", "No disrespect to the guy, but is there any reason to think Germany, Denmark or Sweden would let him in? European countries don't just let anyone in who wants to come.", "> Thats only true if the people around you don't care. If we as a nation started caring, reality wouldn't be so harsh.\n\nPlease don't get me wrong, I feel bad for everyone in that photo. It's a heartbreaking picture. I wish it were different. \n\nI wish his parents didn't screw him over as badly as they did. I wish he'd gone through the motions to get his citizenship. I wish there was some kind of way that allowed him to stay. But none of those things are true. \n\nI care, I really do, but there's nothing I can do to change things here. Breaking the law has consequences. \n\nAnd let's not pretend this is something that suddenly started happening once Trump became president. ICE has been deporting people since 2003. I'm sure there are many other similar sad stories to find throughout the years. And let's also not forget that illegal immigration is bad for the economy, bad for American citizens (jobs), and mostly, bad for the illegal immigrants themselves, as they are vulnerable to exploitation and not protected by any social system. They really get a shit deal being illegal in the US. \n\nIt's against the law for many good reasons. \n\nBut yeah, I wish this guy could stay. He seems like a good person. Hopefully there will be a law in the future that can make exceptions for situations like this. ", "Except he was brought here.", "Ah, I thought you were talking about his children being affected by his punishment, not him as the child. \n\nI still disagree, since he was clearly aware he was here illegally but chose to stay after he grew up. He chose to marry a US resident rather than returning to the country where he speaks the language and had familial ties. He could have easily returned to his homeland and made a life there but he made all these decisions knowing the risk. At some point you have to assume responsibility for your life.\n\n", "Agreed. Yet deportation is an option under the law.\n\n\n\nI find it absurd that we have established a progressive juvenile court system in this nation, and yet when the crime is severe (indicating a juvenile in tremendous need of help), we look for every opportunity to toss out that system and try the juvenile as an adult.\n\n\n\nI find it reprehensible. I find it unjust. Yet it's the law. The discussion should be about how we fix the system, not whether the clear and unambiguous immigration laws should apply to this one case. ", "It's weird how common people say \"Spanish\" to a Spanish speaker in this country. \n\nI have the impression that \"Hispanic\" is just too long to say for Americans. ", "Start now, and perhaps we will have all the land we need in 20 years. ", "And? The issue of illegal immigration isn’t some popularity contest. You have no clue what these people are putting themselves through to find better opportunities. It’s not black-and-white.", "They are just as equal as anyone else, only thing that seperates us in education and diet. Saying what you said how you phrased it makes it sound like you somehow think \"they\" are just anyone. Of course with more people its logical to say they are going to steal your job, because they will. But they will also provide more jobs in the future, its like investing in a company. You suck up the loss and lose 200k now, so that in the future it could be worth billions. \n\nI dont know if Im very clear, but i tried.", ">their only hope is to call a lie a lie \n\nUh... of course?", "Hence the reason many Mexicans do manual labor. ", "Why wouldn't they just go with him?", "I'm not saying it was right or justified by modern standards, but conquer or be conquered was how things worked back then. Every tribe, civilization, you name it did horrible things to each other. Singling out one group as the most vile of the bunch just because they were victorious is quite idiotic.", "> What good does this do to anyone? What benefit is served here? I’m at a total loss to name any.\n\nDiscouraging more people from breaking the law that his parents (when he was 10-17) and he (when he was 18+) did.", "That’s if you’re criminally deported, civilly you have a much shorter wait time.", "He is banned for 10 years. He can illegally cross the border.\n He cant apply for a tourist visa or a green card.", "Except illegal immigrants still have to pay taxes. Their work means they have to pay into payroll taxes, and they collectively billions* into social security that they'll never see. \n\nEven if they were to pay no other taxes (and I don't see why you wouldn't just have them eligible to do so), everything they bought will still mean paying sales tax in 45 states.\n\nThe idea that they're taking advantage of public programs funded by taxpayers ignores the fact that they themselves are taxpayers... taxpayers who don't get to see a dime of what they pay in. And that means that the rest of us are, to at least some extent, living off of their hard work.", "That's because they've learned to hide their income in options.", " I'm glad you were here to confirm that an \"opinion\" is wrong. Thanks. You must have a high IQ. 71?", "Agreed.", "Arguing that empathy > law is honestly just saying feels > reals.", "I can see why liberals like fighting like this. Really does a good job at shutting down conversation. Wouldn't you agree?", "> Since you applied for AOS (presumably), she can stay here for as long as it's pending with little to no issue\n\nI already clarified as much:\n\n>>Since we applied already, I think she could petition for a stay while the application is being processed if her h1b were to lapse.\n\nIf we had not applied for marriage-based AOS and allowed an employment-based visa to expire, she would indeed be required to return home to apply for a marriage based permanent resident visa. Although I'm not a lawyer, we've put countless hours into this process; I'm stating this with a pretty high degree of certainty.\n\nSimply being married does not allow you to remain in the US without a valid visa. \n\n>so I'm not really sure what you're saying there. No need to be concerned unless the application is denied. If it is, you have bigger problems.\n\nThis is, in fact, our concern. They don't approve all applications. It's based on satisfying a quota by country of origin. Simply being married, in good legal standing, and an upstanding citizen with good finances is not a guarantee for approval.", "Good, Trump can be blamed for nothing! ", "technically speaking he was never welcome\n\nAt some point he has to take responsibility for his actions? Should that be at 18? At 28? At 38? \n", "Agreed. It's absolutely astounding the level of ignorance about these laws among US citizens. In any other country I wouldn't think anything of it, not everybody needs to be a legal expert, but America is founded on immigrants. Every single person here knows someone who was born elsewhere. And yet immigrants have to stop and explain that \"why don't you just became a citizen?\" is not a thing.", "What a dumb argument. Certain ways of immigration are illegal. Like just sneaking through the border. Most countries, of all races, support deportation and have stricter immigration laws than the US does. It's not racist. ", "Just because something is a law doesn't make it morally correct. ", "They hurt everyone but upper middle class folks who spend tons on cheap consumer products and residential labor services produced and provided by exploitable undocumented workers.", "Shouldn't have came here illegally. It's simple. Now the son is paying for the sins of the father, as the saying goes.", "Let me guess you are okay with all the past administration's that actually created this problem? And you are just going to give trump all the blame?", ">It’s called empathy and caring about your fellow humans. You might be a racist deplorable but I still think you deserve every opportunity to succeed regardless of race, nation, creed, gender, sexuality, or identity. \n>\n>Here’s a wiki article on empathy for you. Might want to study up. \n>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy\n\nAnd they can do it legally ", "So.. for 30yrs he couldn't get legal? Really?!\n\nOr maybe, more to the point, he preferred being able to skirt under the laws and not have to pay taxes for 30yrs. \n\nas a family man, it 100% sucks.. but he should have tended to business and taken care of himself. ", "What an intelligent point you make good sir. I mean I get that you get your rocks off trolling and shit but damn that’s weak ", "That is honestly just unfair. ", "This is like posting a picture of a black guy getting arrested for shoplifting, and posting it on MLK day. We still have laws on the books. It’s not discrimination. It’s an example of congress for 20+ years failing to ever address an issue that every major politician has run on immigration reform. This is political bs being used against the current administration. Nothing more nothing less ", "> But I think you are implying that because Democrats had a role in the immigration laws, that Republicans are now the only ones qualified to fix them.\n\nThis is a strawman. Do you know what that means? It means you are making assumptions and creating positions that I never took so you can attack those. You are also creating positions that you never took, that I never assumed you took, and then falsely accusing me of attacking them. \n\nI'm sorry homie, you're too dumb for debate. Take care.", "Yeah t_d is leaking all over this.", "Look I don’t play the whole let’s see who has the best links game that redditors seem to enjoy. I don’t have time to compile research for you.\n\nIf you’re interested, look into it yourself.", "I implore you to look up the statistics regarding children who are led to believe that they have legal status.", "What exactly makes you American friend? Plenty of communists were born here. Plenty of people who were not born here serve honorably in our military. Why is birth the litmus test? ", "Why didn't his parents just try to come in legally?", "Did he have to pay tax all these years?", "Alright, at this point we are gonna go in circles. To put it simply i disagree with your assessment of the situation. ", "LET’S GET THAT DEPORTATION HYPE GOING IN CHAT GUYS!! ", "We should take them.", "Shifting blame to whomever doesn't make him not separated from his family.", "He's no longer a child. Should've left and come back with a work visa while waiting for his citizenship to go through", "So... what's the bad situation? Is it that he's not white?", "It's emotional manipulation to tie this to MLK.", "It's totally legal. But in a wink wink, nudge nudge, it's hard to prove kind of way.\n\nI think in most cases, unless you legitimately entered without the intent to marry, going the K-1 visa route is just better from a peace of mind standpoint. It isn't a particularly difficult visa to get if you have a clean record and you have a bona fide relationship.", "lol", "He's been here since he was 10. He's an American. It isn't hard to understand.", "He didn't respond with a deflection. He answered your concern. Trump gets heavily audited, along with every other billionaire, every year. If he was tax evading, he'd have been caught by the IRS for sure. He's probably involved in tax avoidance, which is unethical (hence not releasing his returns), but not illegal.\n\nTrump's tax affairs are in order. There's no doubt about it. If there was anything special in them, don't you think a liberal working in the IRS would've leaked them now? The maximum punishment is a small fine and 6 months jailtime. Someone would do that for the popularity (and money, selling them to the media or something) in return.\n\nIf these two points don't make it obvious enough that his tax situation is legally OK, then you're the stupid human here.", "You must be kidding. After having kids you don’t just come out of the shadows. Under obama he would have been able to have all kinds of free shit. Good bye ", "How is that a problem? Scared of becoming a minority?", "well your lord and savior wants a merit based system, so sure ", "I think because MLK wasn't just involved with racial injustice, but was actually very broad in addressing injustice in general throughout society. His family members have carried that torch on for him, for example his wife was active in regards to LGBT rights, his eldest son has made statements about immigration policy/Trump's statements. MLK himself would have likely viewed this as an injustice, and today his descendants (specifically MLKIII, his son) actually spoke out against Trump on immigration. It is relevant for that reason.", "He’s being punished by a illegal act his parent committed when he was one. Get your head out of your ass dude. ", "You think a 10 year old had the option to go against the family members' decision and say no I'll go the \"legal way through the front door??\"", "Not in here lol", "http://nomadcapitalist.com/2014/09/12/second-citizenships-can-get-marrying-a-foreigner/\n\nThere's 13 ya cunt", "Well as a Canadian you don't need a visa for tourism in the US and can actually be in the US for up to 6 months without a visa.", "Man I really wish the left would stop encouraging people to come here illegally. It leads to such heartbreak. But surely we can all admit that unlimited open immigration isn’t a good thing. ", "I was thinking the same thing when DACA was first getting set up: \"Wait, if you sign up for it, then the government will have your name & address in a huge database of illegals, what if it falls into the hands of some asshole? If it was me, I'd just stay in the shadows.\" And then boom", "Thank you for not trying to piece together an argument and boiling your opinion down to a simple phrase. No, really. Because it just reveals that you aren't capable of thinking things through and form all your opinions based on your feelings. ", "here's my question though. assuming he knew he was here illegally all those years, why would you not go and make yourself a legal citizen when you're old enough? i mean he was here 30 years. you can't really excuse his not taking the chance to keep this from happening. not saying tearing the family apart is fine by me, but it seems like a lot of people are missing this key aspect, unless i'm the one missing something.", "You do realize that many people like him, who were brought here before they were adults, have tried to reconcile the situation with the government in every way provided for them. Many of the people deported were not committing crimes, but were left in a shitty situation because our federal government has failed to provide a coherent legal pathway for them. Like I said, I see nothing I can describe as \"morality\" if you would side against a hard working father in favor of some belief in our broken federal immigration system.", "Are you people out of your fucking mind? How the absolute fuck is legally entering a country A WRONG law? Holy hell this website is overwhelmingly dumb sometimes.", "Source?", "I'm not arguing that our immigration system doesn't have serious issues. I'm arguing against your claim that \"illegal immigrant\" is a stupid term and that you seem to think we have no right to national sovereignty.\n\nThere IS such a thing as illegal immigration and we do have a right to decide who and how many people come to the US.", "Are you implying that cartels just pick random people and behead them? \n\nThose that are executed are involved in their business, they don't kill just because they're bored. ", "\"Legal way\". Except the dude was 10 when he came here, so he'd have to have left the country shortly after he entered and then entered legally and applied for citizenship AT THE AGE OF 10.\n\nHe was a minor for a further 8 years. By that time the US was his home, he'd have established deep ties to the country and likely remembered very little else. For him to have gained citizenship at this point, he'd have to drop everything he's ever known for the last 8 or so years and leave the country. Then apply through a long extrenuous proccess with no guarantee of success.\n\nIt's not reasonable to expect this from anyone in his situation. He was 10, it's not his fault. What his parents did was wrong, and that should be illegal. Time has passed and it's a different situation with him, a minor who had no choice.\n\nJust because it's legal doesn't mean it's right and vice versa. No one's arguing about what's \"legal\" or not, it's clear his existence in the US is illegal according to the law. Slavery was legal, does that mean it was right?\n\nToo many people are too eager to punish. It's not easy to get a citizenship in his case, it's unrealitic to expect the hoops and sacrifice he'd have to make.", "Yes and no. Ironically, if someone was able to cross the border without being noticed _and_ didn't attract any attention from immigration \"forces\" then there's no legal way to get permanent residence.\n\nHowever, once the deportation proceedings start, his/her lawyer can try to \"fix\" it and get cancellation of removal -- if you conform to criteria judge can basically grant you a green card (takes a skillful immigration attorney, a lot of time _and_ some time in deportation prison, which is a horrible experience to say the least).\n\nSo if someone has been without a status and wants to get a green card, having him/her surrender with a letter from immigration attorney is a way to get it.", "Sure, I definitely agree. In fact, MLK was a socialist - almost proving he didn't limit his scope to just black civil rights. But the above connection is just saying \"MLK stood for a lot of things, so he definitely stood for mine!\" it's a blatant karma grab that honestly disrespects MLK's legacy - degrading him to some sort of authority and political tool.", "This flow chart is generally reasonable and any of the points that could use revision wouldn't really apply to the situations where person is getting deported ", "Interesting idea. I don't know if I'd go as far as calling it human trafficking but the other idea could definitely work.", "I'm not interested in contributing to someone who thinks the Soviet Union was a result of too much empathy whilst also comparing to a form of consequentialism. You can point yourself in the direction of airheads who speak with no knowledge on a topic. ", "Liar..no way that's possible. ", "Karma. Apeal to the left leaning she types all over reddit", "It's impressive how he can remained undocumented for 30 years...especially before 911 it was real easy to get a green card.", "There is a 10yr penalty for coming to the US undocumented ", "Was the 30 years here not enough time to get his paperwork straight and become a citizen?", "How can you know if they are undocumented if you don't give them a trial?", "Travel to Canada, suggest the prairie provinces and wander across.\n\n", "So, before women got to vote. Laws are laws?", "There's 50,000 Irish in New York and Boston that have overstayed their visas that are getting rounded up by ICE, when the Mayors of New York and Boston aren't actively resisting federal law enforcement.\n\nhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/21/irish-illegal-immigrants-boston-fear-deportation-arrest-local/", ">There is no criminal penalty associated with unlawful presence, only deportation.\n\nSo you wouldn't consider deportation a penalty then? What's the issue with him being deported in that case?\n\n>His entry may have been, assuming it was via unlawful border crossing and not overstaying a visa. But at ten years of age, he had no say in that, and therefore cannot be held liable for it.\n\nHe could have gone back. \n\n>Actually, he hasn't. Being undocumented and not eligible for DACA means he had no recourse. I suppose you think he should have left the only country he knows and gone back to where his parents came from, but don't even bother pretending you'd do that in his situation.\n\nDoesn't matte what I would do, if he didn't want to risk deportation he should have gone back and worked towards entry legally. ", "Sanctuary laws make it difficult to deport someone here illegally. ", "So he didn't knowingly commit a crime?", "It's the age old topic of \"what if this person was not dark skinned ? If they were white, would the situation have been handled differently ?\"", "You're language shows your true colors. Especially how you're reacting to this post. I'm all for reforming our immigration system in a bipartisan manner that would prevent situations like this from ever happening, but I'm not running around calling people illegals. ", "And?", "There's always that one ignorant ass answer. It's nowhere near that easy. ", "The borders aren't open you idiot. He was a 10 year old child brought here; no other nation in the WORLD would kick this guy out via their immigration policy today given these circumstances. Get a clue before citing us trying to gain citizenship in Australia or Japan.\n\nThere is no such things are open borders and you reciting that ignorant nonsense proves you are a misinformed dope. The immigration policies in this country are strenuous - THE MOST SO in the world - under Trumps proposals and attempts.\n\nGet your bigoted bullshit out of here.", "His last few years were also focused on labor organization and fighting poverty, and he supported a universal basic income. \n\n>I am now convinced that the simplest approach will prove to be the most effective—the solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a now widely discussed measure: the guaranteed income. - MLK, Where Do We Go From Here", "Ya i saw that, was instantly reminded of my mushrooming years good times.", "For employment status. Employers will take fake SSN's and think nothing of it. It's pretty common-place. I've worked in South Florida. I've seen plenty of undocumented workers receiving W-2s. And that's money into the system that stays in the system since those SSN's are either from dead folks or somehow forged.", "Most of those are state taxes, not federal. That’s why you see states like California and New York defend illegal immigrants because it benefits the individual state, but hurts the Federal government and the nation as a whole.", "The gist of it is. My sisters are American citizens, i'm Canadian. They couldn't apply for my mom and myself until they turned 21. Then it was a race to get citizenship before I turned 21, when I would phased out of my mom's work visa. Long story short I turned 21, couldn't find a job, stayed illegally (yeah I know) to look for one, and then got the boot. Since I didn't stay too long illegally it's only 5 years. Couldn't apply for DACA because I held legal status at one point. ", "It was fun hanging out with Mike Tyson and his tiger though. ", "Now you're trying to deport Americans! Why do Trump supporters hate America and Americans so much? Wouldn't you and all your traitor turd buddies be much happier fucking off over to Russia.", "It's unfortunate that you're being downvoted for raising these points. History will not judge these xenophobes kindly.", "How can you say that with certainty?", "I know a guy in London with a similar-ish story. Parents died during the military coup in the 90's and was trafficked over by his uncle and left him with relatives once the uncle was arrested and sent back to Nigeria for overstaying. \n\nOnce he reached 18, he realised his dodgy situation because he was unable to locate a National Insurance number. \n\nRather than hiding his status for decades, he went to an immigration lawyer who filed an appeal towards the UK government. He was given a quasi-residence status and then after 5 years was able to apply for his British passport. \n\nThe reality is, you may have been trafficked over as a child, but you're still not a child. If don't sort your shit out as an adult, then you suffer the consequences. You don't get to constantly push aside your own responsibilities. \n\nIf I discover a dead body in my garden and don't tell the police, I've not committed a murder but I've in no way shown any type of morality and respect for the rule of law in which I live. \n\nIf this guy genuninely loved the United States, he would have made every effort to exercise every option available the moment he became a legal adult. He only has himself to blame for reaching this point.", "Just like if you can buy the same product at the same store but one is $1 more you are most likely going to take the cheaper option. People make these choices every day but when it comes to pay they bring emotion into it and don’t look at it the same way they do when purchasing paper towels. \n\nEven the best and most expensive CEO is only as good as the results of his/her labor (product). If he looses his mojo he will probably loose his/her job. Same as anyone else. ", "Dakaggo has brings up a good point. Although it appears that [victims of human trafficking can obtain lawful status without leaving the country](https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/victims-human-trafficking-other-crimes/victims-human-trafficking-t-nonimmigrant-status), it appears that [U.S. law does have analogous provisions for children brought in by their parents](http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/can-child-undocumented-immigrant-become-citizen.html). This seems like poor planning by the U.S. immigration department.\n\nWallStreetGuillotin9 also brings up a good point. [Only immigrants who accrue “unlawful presence” in the United States are barred from being re-admitted](https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/three-and-ten-year-bars). [\"Children under 18...do not accrue unlawful presence.\"](http://www.donatilaw.com/blog/2013/february/unlawful-presence-the-3-year-10-year-and-permane/) It appears that Jorge Garcia would not have received the 10 year ban if he left once he became 18. This seems like poor planning by Jorge Garcia.\n\nThe title says that Jorge is married, but does not say that his wife is being deported. [\"If the immigrant is married to a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident...a WAIVER MAY BE AVAILABLE for [the] 10 year bar\"](http://www.humanrightsattorney.com/unlawful-presence-illegal-entries/3-10-year-bar-waivers/)", "Thats so sad. I hope his family are able to leave with him and start again in their new country 😢", "He didn't know he was illegal when he married and had kids? ", "Their kids do. Not the parents. And it's not like they're handed pamphlets on how to fuck over america.", "Wow it's like the law works or something. ", "Fuck Donald Trump and everyone that stands with him. ", "Seems like there should be some middle ground for these situations. ", "Do you think Trump is bashing \"chain migration\" for nothing?", "Would almost prompt someone to, you know, become a fucking citizen vs wasting money.\n\nThis photo is of a lazy dude that thought he could beat the system and got caught. Fucking reddit, man. ", "It's a tough situation, and I'd rather have him stay, but that is the law right now. Best we can do is voice our opinions and vote for our positions.", "He has to wait 10 years to apply and then it will take 8+ years to get approved so he is looking at minimum 18 years barred from the country ", "And I didn’t say that I am special. What I’m saying is that laws and borders exist and just because you’re emotional doesn’t mean we disregard a law pretty much every country on earth has. ", "Student Visa is just for entering the country but not for staying, you can stay in the U.S. legally with an expired Visa if you have an active i-94 . ", "The shitty thing is that he didn’t enter illegally by choice. He was forced. Then grew up as an American, said the pledge alligance to the flag every day at school just like the rest of us, and now he’s being forced once again to a country that he’ll feel like an immigrant in. That’s fucked. ", "Extend dreamer status to include immigrants of any age that came here as kids. Pretty easy.", "You do understand every nation in the world is like this. We just get the most attention. We have have immigration laws for a reason and he had 30 years to leave and begin the process of becoming a legal citizen chose not to. he was 10 he came here alright I'll give him till he's 20 so we have 20 years to begin the process of becoming a legal citizen never did. ", "No. But I know a few people who did come from a shithole country and they had some issues but that's because they married out of country first. Which is a whole different can of worms than a k1. ", "It's not his fault or his parents or the government.\n\nThe blame is with politicians deciding that they are not going to solve the problem. They want to make it so that people are tempted to hire illegal immigrants so that wages can stay low for everybody.", "If you think it was a choice, you're clearly ignorant.", "At no point did I directly mention resources on the part of Disney's, which is something I believe you're trying to reference.", "Its incredibly incredibly strange. How this statement \n\n>they want laws to be based on emotion \n\nWas pretty much the driving force behind the whole \"Obama death panels\" argument, that conservatives screamed till their face was blue because they thought Obama was coming for gram gram. Its just SO incredibly strange how when the shoe is on the other foot, conservatives constantly betray their ideals and values for whatever will benefit them the most. God that is so weird how that happens just randomly like that!", "Are the kids thrown in jail too? False equivalence - in your little story, the kids didn't get the same punishment as the parent.", "He definitely didn't pay taxes, he's an illegal alien. leeched off of hard working american taxpayers for 30 years too long if you ask me", "He couldn’t since he came in illegally. ", "Just steal someone else's identity. It's easier if they're dead, but alive is fine too", "Uhhh...Well, to give Marx some credit. I think its possible he meant well. But yah... 100% socialism/communism is a nightmare. You try to be to giving and free and shit goes to hell. It's about the only thing worse than 100% Laissez Faire capitalism. The depression was bad but no where near as bad as Stalin or Mao. \n\nNow you can look at northern europe who blended the two to great success they also had VERY strict immigration policies for decades....But they went to far left and immigration is starting to sink them as well. Those countries are already having to raise retirment ages and you can expect even deeper austerity cuts in the future.\n\nYou should invvest in YOUR poor. Not import it so companies can pay bottom teir workers even less.", "You don't have to be a republican to agree with immigration laws. I'm left leaning, my dad immigrated when he was 9 and achieved citizenship status, he did it legally, why should someone be able to just rock up in a country and do whatever they want? This guy had decades to try to become a citizen, he didn't. Sucks for his family, but what do you expect?", "Unless you want taxes to be a specific $/person, the top 1% are going to pay a huge portion of income taxes because they earn a huge portion of the income.\n\nTo boot, [The top 1% controls almost 40% of the wealth](http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/27/news/economy/inequality-record-top-1-percent-wealth/index.html) (warning, autoplay video). So I'd say 1% paying 40% sounds pretty much exactly fair.", "You get can easily get 6 month tourist visas, but he wouldn't be able to work while here. It probably would have been better for him to leave as soon as he found out he was breaking the law, and work while in his home country while waiting for approval. It would have costed home a lot less money and time than he is going to have to pay now. ", "A law is a law. If the law has to apply equally to everyone, why were the people responsible for cashing the economy (a far greater crime than what this person committed) not punished? \n\nSeems like my examples are just too good to rebut, so you make up some nonsense about how they aren’t comparable. \n\nThe law should apply to everyone equally, as you said. ", "You just quoted fucking Quora as your source, and the answer is just some dude that \"Worked in many countries\". And even he makes the point of noting you have to have substantial financial backing and be able to prove that to the Canadian government. Which, to low skilled workers, would be difficult to do.\n\nJesus dude. Don't go telling other people to try reality.", "I have friends who have been able to get a green card in 3-6 months if they are eligible for Direct Consular Filing. Not sure if they are from Mexico, but I believe Mexico is one of the countries eligible. This would, however, require the family to go with him to Mexico first though, so they can file from there.", "Easy for you to say, a fucking idiot day behind a keyboard. We have no idea what his life has been like the past 30 yrs to put labels on him", "\"Foreign-born citizens\"", "Did you hear me say anything about Mexico? Why are you making judgements about things you create in your head? What about you get a life and stop putting words in people's mouths?\n\nConsider leaving your cave and get some sunlight to your face, according to the frequency and content of your posts. Your entire profile is pure cancer.", "Oh. I see. Your goal posts are moving. Cool. Because court cases, court results, and fines relating to tax evasion are not indicative of any tax evasion? Very interesting and colorful world you live in.\n\nAlso, none of these are behind paywalls, or you need a better adblocker because I can read every one of these articles. And there's only one about Trump. ", "Why exactly should we have empathy for people that can't even have empathy for the laws we created as a country of 320 million, and further, that we elected the current President to enforce?\n\nHe doesn't give half a shit about you or me or anyone else except himself, he doesn't deserve a single drop of empathy.", "Dry your tears", "I'm gonna have to side with the other replies you're getting. This is indefensible regardless of \"the law.\" Anybody who doesn't understand why is lacking a basic sense of morality.", "Idk if you’re serious but my husband and I did this. Essentially he came to visit and then we got married before his visitor visa expired. The immigration process to get his green card involved multiple interviews and documentation of proof he intended to go back. Examples included return flight ticket, no wedding plans until after he was here, car and bank accounts still open back home for him, etc. ", "Iono he sounds more like an 84oz Mountain Dew guzzling fuck.", "Yep it is old. They have been pulling shit like this for at least a century.", "It's not that hard to hide among 320 million people. ", "This is so sad to see. Whats worse is the reactions from people. People saying \"good\" and \"bye\" are so fucking ignorant. Have you people have no remorse? This man has every right to stay in this country. There's absolutely no reason for him to leave. \n\nWe should build a wall. Walls should be built around the people that want them. Then when they're in their little fort they can go fuck themselves.", "What do you expect? People like that don't have a shred of decency in their bodies. ", "\"This comment has over 100 upvotes but I have to desperately stick to my persecution complex since my ideas have no merit on their own.\"", "Ok honestly wtf? This dude has a wife AND kids plus has been here for 30 years...why tf didn't he apply to become a citizen?! I get it sucks to lose a father for these kids but seriously we in the U.S. Have an immigration policy for a reason, yes it sucks for situations like this but it's not like it is unknown. Maybe my family is different but idk", "There's nothing honest about your comment. ", "You blatantly don't understand the legal process of filing for citizenship. How about you don't tell someone they're an irresponsible father when you have no idea about their situation.\n\nSincerely,\nAnother White Person who has half a clue.", "back when we tried to actually solve the immigration problem instead of just using it as a platform for xenophobia, sigh", "ICE is really fucking going to town. Feels good man.", "> No they did something illegally.\n\nHe never did anything illegal. ", "Your criticism speaks nothing of the actual issue at hand. America isn’t wrong, but in context of this scenario, they also aren’t exactly right. They are not legally wrong, but laws don’t determine moral standings.", "How could you ever get an accurate number on that? If I was illegal and got caught. I would say I didn't know. Its like the first thing that would come to mind.", "Family values don't apply to those people /s", "Nope he has an effective 10 year ban. Also because of his history, he will not get any visa to travel to US as he was already deported. He will not get a student visa as well. I think inclusive of the recent country bans, china, Philippines, Vietnam, Nigeria, Mexico and I think one or two other country's, their visa processing times for relatives is like 10+ years wait time for I-130s They used to have it on the USCIS website but took it down. Now they give a general timeline for everyone, but those countries are kinda in a blacklist.", "\"register as a citizen\"? Are you serious? ", "Many of my family members came here through due process of applying for legal citizenship. If you come to our country illegally then don't be surprised if you get kicked out of a country that isn't yours.", "Right got it. So... he should have done that, he didn’t. Now he’s doing something illegal, and he shouldn’t get punished for it?", "I'd rather be a bleeding heart than an empathy devoid asshole.\n\nAnd I'm not even a fucking liberal.", "Nice.... Only 11 million left", "Lawyers are supposed to be afforded to the most vulnerable and at risk, especially those who cannot protect themselves via voting. ", "ummm.... yeah.... He's not American.", "It’s not an opinion. His beliefs were spoken by him or written down by him. Unless you want to claim that the modern right is socialist, you are wrong.\n\n\nThis isn’t an opinion. It’s a fact.", "But he chose to get married and have kids. That was his choice. He shouldn’t left and got his citizenship before any of that. Now he almost has no chance after being deported, or at least it’s gonna be a much longer process.", "Sorry, try with someone else because I'm not taking the bait.\n\nHave a good night and go fuck yourself.", "Wait, you can’t just declare citizenship?", "Lol ", "It baffles me that people like you keep commenting about stuff you clearly don’t understand. Just fucking stop! ", "It absolutely was founded as an open country to immigrants.", "Am I supposed to feel bad about this? Because I don't. He had 30 years to do something about it.", "So he didn’t know he was an illegal for 30 years?", "Build the wall.", "Can you be clearer in what you mean by \"any sales in an estate\"?\n\nI learned quite a bit about this recently when my grandfather, who owned a trailer court, passed it to his children (my step-mother, aunts, and uncles). There was no tax on the transfer or property when the title passed from my grandfather to his four children.\n\nHad the trailer court been sold, some of it might have been taxed as profits from the sale of a business, but there are exemptions and limitations on what would be taxable of those profits. The entire value of the property would not have been subject to tax.", "Where are you going in Europe?", "Must be nice to sit in your cubicle and make 100 grand a year and have no thought about the citizen who was displaced by this illegal. Maybe you should read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair to understand.", "You're clearly attempting to associate this with Trump. I should point out I've had family deported for the same reason under the previous administration.", "Lying on your green card application is grounds for revocation. They may not do it often, but then again, they don't deport most illegal immigrants, either.", "You need to turn off your computer, go outside, and talk to actual people if you think that's what Republicans enjoy.", "Mr President?", "Because your parents had a hard time, you want everyone else to have a hard time too? How can you be that selfish? You want countless others to suffer just because your parents had to? Have some empathy.", "So he was here illegally? Glad we are following the laws on the books.", "What do they do if they get sick?", "When you or a loved one contracts some insufferable disease out of your control and you go to get it treated but you can't afford it because the treatment is just simply too expensive, let me know.\n\nBecause i'm going to find you and say \"You had a chance to fix it. No pity.\"", "Can he Apply for one after being deported? ", "How else is she going to spend an indefinite amount of time in Mexico while maintaining US citizenship?", "Did you have the money and resources to have been able to up and move to another country you have never visited before and didn't have connections in just so you could wait out the incredibly long beuracratic process of applying for US citizenship when you were 18? If the answer is yes then understand that most people, especially likely financially strugguling immigrants, would not have.\n\nAlso for most any crime, including violent crimes, the statute of limitations is at most 10 years in most states. So your question if we would expect any different behavior if he had committed another crime the answer is almost certainly yes. There are states where you can rape a minor and if nothing is reported in 20 years then you are free from being prosecuted (Ohio statute of limitations if you are curious).\n\nThis man has likely contributed a great deal to the economy and his community during his time here. It would be almost impossible to stick any other crime against him from 30 years ago. This is a situation where saying \"the law is the law\" should cause us to look at how uncharacteristic this law is from the rest of our legal system and figure out a reasonable change.", "You don't see it because reporting on it doesn't serve anyone's agenda. http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/350/", "I just have to say this so I can calm the rage in my soul.\n\nFUCK ANYONE WHO THINKS THIS BENEFITS ANYONE AT ALL. FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU. YOU SUCK YOU’RE SELFISH FUCK YOU.", "This headline is garbage. There are so many details we don’t know about here. Did he work. Did he pay taxes. Did he have health insurance. Did he receive social benefits. Etc. ", "I assume it's the new administration targeting individuals with more tenacity. What else? We know this dude kept his head low enough.", "You do understand it's fairly easy compared to the rest of the world to become a citizen in the US. Our system is heavily bog down due to the sheer volume of people trying to come here and become US citizens that's why it takes forever. ", "Clearly not considering the man is losing his entire family for a uncertain future. ", "You wanna know how to decrease illegal immigration? Make it easier to become a citizen! This is the exact wrong way to go about this. It just makes me sick to my stomach.", "Perhaps it's more lax here because of our history of immigration. I think that is sort of what the person you originally replied to was getting at. ", "Hahaha. Why are you pretending like sending them back is the equivalent to the death penalty? They get sent back with their parents, take a few years to readjust in their country and set an example for others who think they can guilt America into giving them a right to live here. ", "> However, illegal immigration needs to be addressed, and it needs to stop.\n\nWhat exactly would you say are the problems linked with illegal immigration on the scale it's currently at ?", "Someone has their jimmies rustled", "The family is not temporarily apart. They are permanently separated now, since it will be 10+ years before he can return, barring some congressional intervention. That means the family is likely to fail, and american kids will end up on the support systems the legislators hate so much.\n\nIs that the intended outcome you wanted?\n\nIt was physically impossible for him to get status while in the country. It is effectively impossible for him to maintain his family here while returning to try to immigrate with a legal path. \n\nSending someone out of the country when they've already developed a significant presence here is going to make the overall situation worse, not better. It's true that he's broken a law, but by taking the deportation action, you're making things worse for all, not better.", "omfg How can they not do this by a case by case basis. holy fuck this should be criminal. who is going to support this family? kids need a father, are they just trying to breed little mexican criminals???", "A person can't be illegal, though. \"Illegal immigrant\" is a shitty term, grammatically speaking.", "So if you were told you secretly were smuggled into US you would just drop your entire life you would just go to a country you never saw and deal with it? Knowing you won't be allowed back for ten years?\n\nI'm sorry ruining lives because of the actions of parents doesn't do anything. He generated money and was crime free, what did we accomplish here?", "He must me so mad at his parents for doing this to him.", "ICE officers are scum. You have to voluntarily apply for the job. Nobody is conscripted in to ICE and everyone knows the job description. You have to consciously desire making it your job to break up families. Don't give me this \"enforcing the law\" bullshit - where did we all hear that before...\n\nGet triggered Trumpians. I hope you link this comment on the T_D discord for brigading. You're all pussies in real life anyway.", "I honestly don’t even know how Donald Trump got elected... ", "It means nothing to a 10 year old. ", "You can apply before leaving but you have to leave to do an interview before reentering. ", "> So you exit, and apply. Is it hard? \n\nYes. It's a 6-10 year process. Also, he had a job, wife, and children to think about.\n\nIf he'd tried to get citizenship, he'd essentially be volunteering to have the same thing happening to him now happen then. His wife had been in contact with lawyers trying to find a better legal option, but there aren't any. He'd been put in a position where breaking the law was the lesser of two evils.", "Serious question because I really don't know. Are there any countries that handle this differently? Sweden, Japan, Australia? How do other countries deal with illegal immigration?", "Good, fuck him and all those illegal sympathizers that been here forever and have not done anything to become citizens. They had the time and the chance. ", "You cannot legally apply to citizenship if you are an illegal immigrant living in America. \n\n", "And yet you keep responding to me. Interesting, that you act like you're saying something illuminating while at the same time saying nothing.", "That's a different part of the government, you know. If you're mad about white collar criminals, you should be mad at the FBI.", "I'm really pissed off at some people for insulting this man for \"breaking\" a law that is clearly unjust. They would rather demonize him than empathize with him and his family. \n\nDo Americans not have hearts anymore? Is this what our country has been reduced to? It shouldn't matter if you're conservative or liberal. This man had no practical way of becoming a legal citizen and that's wrong. This shouldn't even be an argument. We're supposed to stand for justice in this country and instead we're bickering about whether or not this man deserves a chance of happiness in America. ", "Who the hell told you that? That's insane and wrong. Constitutional rights and expectations apply to all persons in the US, regardless of how they got here.\n\nIf it weren't clear from the original constitution, this was reaffirmed by the 14th amendment that provides equal protection and due process to \"any person\". It's been ruled on over and over again by the supreme court as well.\n\nhttp://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/immigration/255281-yes-illegal-aliens-have-constitutional-rights\n\nThis includes rights that protect against criminal prosecution such as a right against unreasonable search and seizure.\n\nThe rights that are afforded only to citizens are the right to vote, to hold certain elected offices, and (possibly) gun ownership. ", "Why does it matter? Get over the semantics. If you know what it means quit bitching. ", "He came in illegally as a 10 year old. If you came in illegally, you can’t apply for a citizenship no matter how long you have lived here. ", "Highly unlikely if he has even a half-competent lawyer (would cost probably 2-3k but he could just as well get help from his supportive community). His illegal entry was when he was 10, so they can easily prove he didn't have any malicious intent when illegally entering the US. He was just following his parents or guardians. I'm just trying to say things are not as bad as it seems. I personally travel and stay in different countries at a time so this visa business always seem to people as daunting but its not so bad.", "Good....... but wait he’ll be on the next truck back over", "If my parents brought me into another county illegally to start a new life but not follow the rules and receive benefits but not contribute a fair share like citizens do, I would not be under any illusion that I’d be allowed continue down that path forever without any repercussions.\n\nThe pity party for people who knowingly break the law and abuse our generous system really has to stop. Once he was of age he should have taken action to prevent this situation he’s in now from happening. He may not have been in a position to do so when he was young but it seems like there was a good 20 years of inaction.", "It's a tragedy that his family is being torn apart. Unfortunately giving blanket amnesty to these cases incentivizes further illegal immigration. It's a really tough problem.", "Well sorry our world works the way it does if you don’t like it move to the Amazon and maybe nobody will bother you for a while.", "Til that a country with 5 percent of the world's population actually has too many people willing to serve in its military and earn revenue for its government. ", "LOL at \"Everyone gets treated the same under the rules.\" So if it's proven the first lady came here illegally, she will be booted too? Take your ignorant bullshit somewhere else. ", "I'm sure they had no problem taking his taxes for the last 20 years.", "If he cared that much, maybe he should have tried to get himself documented. Right?\n\n>from the lives they have in Detroit\n\nFirstly, it Detroit....\n\n>to a country full of corruption (more kidnapping/bribing-wise than the corporation/politician dynamic we have in the US)\n\nSo? Lots of Mexicans live very happy lives in Mexico.\n\n>Here they have the opportunity to go to college \n\nThey are more likely to be able to afford college in Mexico than the US. Also since you are using statistics to pretend how their loves will be governed, they are not statistically likely to attend college in the US.\n\n>he would be robbing them of countless long-term opportunities.\n\nAgain, its fucking Detroit. Mexico is a great place, and believe it or not, actually has universities.\n\nAnd finally, if all that really mattered to him he's had 30 fucking years to talk to an immigration lawyer.", "Ive noticed that with legal immigrants as well. Though most were accepted when the process way a lot simpler, or had someone else (usually their parents) do the bulk of the work.\n\nThe reason there are so many undocumented imo is because of how hard it is to immigrate her legally (especially combined with the relative ease it is to get a tourist visa)", "He's American as much as I am.\n\nEdit: “YOU’RE NOT AMERICAN UNTIL AN ARBITRARY PIECE OF PAPER PROVES IT!”", "Was a small company making drive utilities and computer forensic software. Created many first that became industry standards like skin tone filtering and live forensics tools.", "Civilized conversation incoming", "Better place=Mexico? Hmm. First time hearing that one. ", "He's married to a U.S. citizen and can apply for a waiver of the 10 year bar by demonstrating \"undue hardship\" on his wife/family. ", "He wasn't 10 for thirty fucking years. The minute he turned 18 he could have went back to Mexico and reapplied. Hell at 20, 25, anywhere in between? He deserves this tbqh. \n\n>Maybe in a heartless bastard world. I prefer to live in a country that stands for justice. Guess you don't give a shit about that.\n\nYes, because it's sooo heartless to have laws and follow them. If anyone ever commits a crime against you, I hope you remember what you said here, that it's \"Sooo heartless to enforce laws\". \n\nAlso, btw, America is one of the most relax countries on immigration. We still have a border though, and laws need to be followed. It's as simple as that. ", "You need help. ", ">when you use a weird way of downplaying the most important aspect of that particular job.\n\nI was directly replying to the bolded use of \"FEELINGS\".\n\nFeelings are how human beings make almost every decision. They play massively into even our rational decision making processes. I dislike the meme of portraying \"being an asshole\" as being somehow more superior and coldly logical, and \"FEELINGS\" being code for \"foolishness\".\n\nYes, I recognize broadly how judges make decisions. I was trying to respond specifically to what was said.", "Hugo is officially lost...", "I understand it, but I disagree. What’s so wrong with ensuring your child will have a shot at the American Dream? Isn’t that kind of the entire fucking point of the American Dream, that anybody can achieve it????", "First and foremost, his parents shouldn't be rewarded for their actions.\n\nHowever, since he didn't commit a crime, he should still be fully eligible to apply for legal citizenship (something he honestly should have taken care of a long time ago)", "Illegal immigrants are illegals = showing my true colors of being a racist. Ok.", "I don't know about an echo chamber, I don't have to be reminded which side is right or wrong when they make it so damn obvious; but something like a mutual aid group or something, maybe? I don't know, this whole thing has just been making me feel half pissed off and half depressed. \n\nTrump and his bitches are getting worse and worse, and still no repercussions, they're free to go. I just feel powerless, the worst scum of society are doing what they please, and apparently the US system wasn't built to stop them. I feel like years of progress are being lost so quickly.", "legal documents that say you are legal? He had none. Thats how. ", "Unless they are dealing in cash how can they not? Any deposit over 10k triggers an alert to the IRS. ", "Might want to recheck your numbers before you spread further false information.", "One can make any argument they want to. Doesn't make it a good one. ", "IRS don't give a fuck as long as you pay taxes.", "You are dangerously naive. ", "That sounds more [Nigerian](http://www.nairaland.com/1351798/some-things-foreigner-should-when) than American. Got a source for that claim?", "So in the 22 years of adult status did he never work on getting legal citizenship or does it take longer than that?", "Since he would have been in the United States illegally for more than 1 consecutive year, he would be subject to a 10 year bar on returning to the US or even filing the proper paperwork tp return with INS/CIS. So basically, he was fucked if he tried to do something. Hard to blame him for trying to stay under the radar and hoping that he'd be alright. ", "He was brought to USA at 10 years old and spent THIRTY years in USA. His cultural experience is mostly in USA. Most of the work he has done has been in USA. His children appear to be born in USA. USA is his Home.", "Implying that because some laws were unjust others naturally have to be as well\n\nImmigration has to be regulated unless you want destabilizing mass migrations, and since people are treated equal by the law an illegal immigrant needs to be treated the same be he a 40 year old family man or a 20 year old gang member, amnesty laws and exemptions also create bad legal precedence", "Lol, he had 1488 in his name and then admitted he was a Nazi, I'm not dumb enough to go around calling others nazis randomly.", "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ^^^^s", "I thought being married to an American would guarantee citizenship? Which is crazy when you think about how this country protects marriage, but not parents or children. ", "Ahhh dont be so racist!!", "It makes me think of Darkseid, the villain in DC comics.", "The one where he isn't arrested and slapped with a long term ban on entering the country. He should have left as soon as he could, applied for entry to the US legally, and worked while in his home country while that was processed. ", "WTF IS HAPPENING, IT'S ONLY JANUARY. ", "Morality and Legality are seperate entities for a reason, just like church and state. By your statement, I could disregard laws and using zero sum game, as long as it helps me and many others but exclusively harms you, its fine right?\n\nAnd fuck off with your xenophobic idiocy. Im Asian born in Asia and immigrated to America legally. ", "Did anal hurt or do you just take it like a Cav Scout?", "You mean a work visa? It's still in place, actually most illegal immigration is from overstayed work visa.\n", "You guy do take in immigrants but you dont take in random illegals who walk in and want to live there, or maybe you should do some research? Also you are a special kinda stupid if you think Canada does not deport people.\n\nhttp://www.newsweek.com/want-move-canada-canadian-immigration-officials-say-you-shouldnt-672253\n\nTake a read and see how many illegals are being turned away by o great canada.", "In 10 days he'll be back illegally. Can't blame him. I'd do the same. The guys has lived here for his entire life, this is his country.", "So taking someone’s home and family away from them isn’t a punishment?", "You need a birth certificate or social security card to apply for a marriage license... Someone is lying.", "Except they have been massively successful getting favorable laws on the state level and then creating profitable businesses out of it. Not every marijuana supporter is constantly high and are competent adults. ", "I'm sure you are aware of this, but did you know Obama deported more illegals than any other president in history? I hope you were railing against him more than you seem to be with the current president. ", "They could easily look the other way, but they are desperate for an \"example\" of their willingness to deport anyone who is \"taking american opportunities\".\n\nFor a long time many rules were never enforced because most of such persons become law abiding tax paying residents, the now TP republican establishment is only enforcing to please the so-called \"white middle class\" to gain their votes; these \"WHC\" who ironically sees our capitalistic, globalists system \"unfair\", they wanted to become protected, sacred cows, and a certain groups are using that as voter leverage to advance their ideologies which also ironically has nothing to do with making WMC sacred cows.\n\nThe politics here is soooo cynical that they really think liberal citizens or not will keep their heads down, mouth shut, keep on paying taxes to support this broken system.", "Yeah I hate people too", "Because there weren't forms for folks who were brought here as children to transition to documented citizens. DACA isn't even that. So to answer your question- because there wasn't a system through which he could \"register as a citizen\" 30 years ago, nor does such a system exist today.\n\n DACA is deferred action for childhood arrivals. It's essentially a form that folks who were brought here as children fill out to delay action on an deportations. It's deferred enforcement.", "Germany, Denmark, Sweden isn't warm either or anymore southern than Ontario. It's easy access to your family and friends when you want to see them. If you want to go some where warm in the winter, take a 4 hour flight south to the Caribbean.", "I agree but why is there so many comments that are deport him? Are they coming from Americans? Came here when ,10 not under his control and trying to get citizenship would have caused him to be deported.", "Well maybe his family can join him in mexico.", "Good", "Neither did he.", "This is what I love about Americans blanketing Canada as if it isn't the 2nd largest country. (No offense meant to you)\n\nToronto is humid and hot. It is also south of Washington State.\n\nSaying \"there are no warm places in Canada\" is like saying \"All of the continental USA is as hot as Death Valley\".", "Can you imagine if was some 20 year military veteran? This thread would have been locked down hours ago.", "It sets an example to those outside the country not to try the same thing themselves. Do they want their child to be deported in the future after building a family? I doubt it, so they may reconsider or try doing things through proper channels. If we let the guy stay, then people will try to bring their kids and keep them hidden until they grow and settle. If people sense they can get that better life for their children, they will risk coming here, which is a dangerous journey to begin with. ", "Yes, previous administrations failed to resolve this problem! However, if previous administrations were arguing over how to deal with a bus of illegal immigrants dangling on a cliff for 10 years the asshole who pushes the bus over the ledge is clearly awful.", "Fellow white Canadian who immigrated to the US - though more \"the right way\" than you did (didn't break any rule at any point of the process) - can confirm it was pretty easy.", "TD brigading this thread HARD right now, my goodness this really brought out the scum", "You weren't living in said theatre and built a life in the theatre. He will have no job waiting for him in Mexico, no home, no gaurantee that he will even have friends there. He will instantly become poor.", "The wives of two YouTubers took a few months... I think it’s a lot shorter if you’ve established a life in the U.S. already.", "You cannot legally apply for citizenship if you are an illegal immigrant living in the United States. ", "You can't dox someone from reddit unless they give up enough information within the past 1000 comments.", "/r/CringeAnarchy", "Does Norway have 800,000 people who were brought to the country by their illegal immigrants parents as children?", "Home of the brave! 'Merica", "Yay, family values!", "Our economy would benefit from immediately granting permanent status to all Dreamers. Our economy would benefit from increasing the number of immigrants and refugees we accept. Sure we need to draw the line somewhere, but our current policy is costly and inhumane.", "Because you can't adjust status to gain a green card and subsequently obtain citizenship if you are undocumented and/or entered the country illegally. ", "Plenty of time to do what is necessary for citizenship. Heartbreaking, but we're not all exempt from reality. I'll accept all down-votes. ", "He should've spent more time growing up, getting a job, meeting a woman and raising a family instead of being ILLEGAL. /s", "In 2014, the Social Security Administration's chief actuary Stephen C. Goss said that they estimate that illegal immigrants using fake social security numbers contribute about $12 billion in payments each year (and of course they'll not be able to receive any benefits). \n\nThat doesn't prove that that specific guy in OP's post used a fake SSN, but it shows that it's a widespread practice. It's estimated that about 45% of illegal immigrant workers are using fake SSNs. Decide for yourself whether that justifies \"probably\". \n\nHere's more specific info:\n\n> Stephen Goss, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration (SSA), told VICE News that an estimated 7 million people are currently working in the US illegally. Of those, he estimates that about 3.1 million are using fake or expired social security numbers, yet also paying automatic payroll taxes. Goss believes that these workers pay an annual net contribution of $12 billion to the Social Security Trust Fund.\n", "The USA sucks right now. This is crazy. How can a government do something like this? No compassion or help unless you have lots and lots of money. ", "You don't read very well, do you?", "The second he realized he was here illegally he should've left. Don't tell me he went on for 30 years believing he was doing nothing wrong. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.", "Look at the username. 1488 is a Nazi thing.", "This feels ineffective because he's been gone so long from his previous nation that he's likely now stateless. Good fucking job...\n\nAll immigration should work such that if someone can live in your boundaries for 12 months and still be alive then they win, clearly they are established without \"help\". I'm sorry but realistically, they aren't a threat and all they want for their offspring is what you do: a college Ed, no matter how hard they suffer to give it, and a better future. Free market principals can extend to foreign states, ie. If your country sucks and they all leave: \"oh look you have no people [clients] cause they all left... Annnnnd.... now you're failed...\"\n\nIf we want to be the hand up not the hand out we need to act like it...", "That’s not communism", "\"won't someone think of the children?\" doesn't work on me. ", "This is highly misleading (on purpose). Income tax is NOT the only tax. The top 1% pay 28% of all federal taxes. If you add up all taxes, they pay a lower tax rate than the rest of the top 10% of income earners", "https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/26/us-aid-320-million-mexico-wall-trump-specialists-backfire/97103024/\n\nIt's amazing to me how many people underestimate the power and influence America has.", "If he crossed the border with his parents illegally there is no way to apply for a green card. Like no way, even if he marries a US citizen. However it is a different set of rules if he was given a tourist visa and he overstayed. He can marry a US citizen and readjust his status.", "You're right, but he said nothing about MLK and his view on the economy. ", "Cost increase has slowed under the ACA. Government intervention is most definitely necessary in healthcare. ", "Lmao ", "Right... He's a miscreant and you're a cunt. \n\n\nCunt: It is comparable to prick and means \"a fool, a dolt, an unpleasant person\". \n\nSeems to describe you perfectly. ", "Sweden only lets you in if you hate pork and love rape /s", "The fuck back to Mexico?\n\nHow isn't this obvious?", "Nice! Bragging about fraud and getting dead people info!", "You do also realize that there's plenty of other and more probable reason illegal imigrants come over here? You can also include war, or shitty economic conditions. I'm pretty sure ever illegal imigrant's reason for coming over is to have an anchor baby.", "The Russians are doing a similar scheme in Miami, did see him bring up those \"illegals\"\n\nBut they aren't illegal. They come on tourist visas, have a baby and go home. They use the status of their children for a legal way in later from What I understabd", "Maybe because he would have been deported?", "Republicans call them 'candidates.'", "What? _MLK was making a political point with that very statement_\n\nThat's like saying \"I can't believe you used this man's recipe to make food\"", ">If they were facing a terrible situation, then there are plenty of other countries they could have found refuge in legally. Instead they passed on those and ended up picking the wealthiest one and then entered illegally. \n\nI agree. Why didn't his parents just walk down to one of those super stable, safe, prosperous Central American countries of the 80's?", "You're so ignorant. The man has no life outside of this country. However, in order to gain citizenship, he'd have to go back to his parents' country, which he more than likely has never been to since his parents were \"illegal\". He'd have to pay a sizeable amount of money, take stupid, arbitrary tests to show he's \"patriotic\", wait months if not years to receive his documents, and come back as if nothing happened.", "Pretty much the only benefit you can receive is free emergency medicine. I guess he isn't paying for roads and infrastructure with taxes. That's all I got.", "BYE FELECIA", "Finally ICE doing their job", "I was not aware of that could you show me like a government webpage, or something so I can show others ", "They could follow him. Sucks that his parents screwed him over like this.", "You were also never brought to a country illegally as a ten year old.", "PATRIOT ACT. \n\nYou don't like warrantless wiretaps and indefinite detention? You're an un-American traitor! ", "Five years wasn't long enough for this family. Where do you draw the line?\n\nhttps://globalnews.ca/news/3893629/this-is-not-what-canadas-known-for-immigrant-family-set-to-be-deported-pleads-for-reprieve/\n", "Thanks for this", ">Democrats invented this nonsense \n\nC'mon, using vocabulary, connotation, and tone to shape perception is arguably as old as speech itself, certainly as far back as Rome.", "u/RoseEsque, It's not that simple.", "And the money they send to Mexico is somewhat offset by their social security taxes that prop up our SS system.\n\nMoney they are ineligible to recieve precisely because they are here illegally.", "You're literally talking to a turd why ask it questions?", "What? Are you retarded? I am guessing you are if you think democrats are somehow bringing in illegal immigrants and making them vote for them illegally. All of this of course would be very easy to prove as there is registration for voting but yet we haven't seen any proof of this", "But if we don't kick him out, how many more parents today will bring their 10 year olds with them illegally, hoping that they'll get an exception for themselves whenever their kids finally get caught?\n\nIt's not an easy situation. It's not the kid's fault, but the parents only do it because the kids will benefit... because we go soft and say: \"Don't punish the kid, its'n not their fault.\". They're exploiting sympathy to break our laws and preempt our immigration process, to the cost of us, the insult of our sovereignty, and above all else, to the detriment of those waiting in line to immigrate properly. 'Discretion' should be used in all cases, but in this case 'discretion' is basically saying \"ignore him and our laws and just let him stay.\" And that's just not right.\n\nThe furthest I would go would be waiving the 10-year ban he has on re-admittance to the country. Let him re-apply for citizenship without that delay. But I can't justify not kicking him out.", "He was breaking the law each and every day for 30 years and made no attempt to become legal. You'll find no sympathy here.\n\nForgive me for not wanting to be soft on criminals. ", "Just remember, at some point, prior to this moment, he could have applied for citizenship. His bad decisions don’t make it morally wrong to enforce the law, it makes him irresponsible and a criminal. I feel bad for his family, but that’s on him. His parents brought him in, he grew up and decided to stay, have a family, and live here illegally. ", "It was certainly more available to him previously than it is now. ", "Says the person who can't cite a single thing King said. ", "He's a lucky man 10 years out of America. Head to Canada what's the problem ...", "I said borderline impossible, not impossible. If it were as easy as you think it is, why wouldn't these people just do it? Do you really think they want to risk losing their families by being deported? ", "This is how it was for me. Applied for adjustment of status about three years after my student visa ran out. I only was able to because I am married to a US citizen ", "wouldn't his crime though be being here for 32 years and never deciding to become a citizen? being brought at 10 years old you can't fault him for. being here 32 years illegally and not trying to become a citizen seems like the fault is very much on him. unless there's more to the story that i'm missing. it seems like people either know something i don't or are completely ignoring this fact. ", "What is this guy supposed to do now? Literally everyone he has ever known has been taken from him. How can people think it's ok just to drop someone of in a foreign country, and say fend for yourself?", "well ok, i guess... be we already call them \"tax evaders\". We could debate on what we call them but i think we give words too much power. I feel that its what is meant by a word that is more important than the word itself. Arguing about linguistics isn't really going to solve this problem though. The problem I see here is a man being separated from his family and being forced from the country he known since childhood and being transplanted to a culture he may not fit in with. I wanna know why he can't just stay and be made a citizen. Why is there no path to citizenship for people like him that doesn't involve him being separated from his family and home?", "He had lots of options once he turned 18. ", "Happy MLK Day! ", "Me?\n\n>Retard", "Says the european, most likely brit.", "I try to comfort myself knowing that there are a ton of trolls and bots on Reddit trying to incite division with inflammatory comments, and try to judge the state of our country more by how the people we see in real life act (or don't act). \n\nUS immigration posts just really seem to set people off on Reddit more than usual.", "What makes them Americans?", "It's not idiotic when it's relevant to your discussion. ", "Or his kids can move with him in the country he was sent back to... They can all wait for the process without being apart from each other. ", "How where they poorly thought out. Is it that insane to think we inherit the successes or shortcomings of our parents. You're parents can't give you what isn't theirs to give. Is it shitty? Absolutely. Is it as straightforward as you think? Absolutely not. It does raise awareness of what can happen if you come here illegally and it is one way of discouraging illegal immigration.", "Trying and he would have been deported.", "He could never act because he was too old and in the country illegally.", "Because security would rather argue that the entire accountability of bureaucracy is at stake if we let this guy stay... because everyone has to get fair treatment and abide by the same law; even though many minority groups in this country receive much longer and harsher sentences for the same crime in comparison to whites. He'd rather pretend that this isn't reality. ", "I don't think he jumped the border. Says that he came 30 years ago with his parents when he was 10. ", "It wasn’t his fault when he was 10. But he was here for 30 more years. 30 more years to make things right. That’s 100% his fault. ", "Democrats controlled Congress for 4 of the last 22 years, so everything for the last 22 years is their fault. Solid logic.", "They behead journalists that give negative press about their day-to-day, a legitimate occupation to which you can't say for certain the man in question wouldn't have pursued in that environment. Don't you dare try to make it sound like everyone whom takes the axe had it coming.", "Or just visit often", "This was part of the Have A Dream initiative that tried to get started a few years ago (and at least got looked at front state, NY) but those stipends for parents were not part of what got approved.", "As a public policy matter, making it easier for illegal immigrants to become citizens than it would have been for them had they not broken our laws makes a lot of sense, actually. We don't want to incentivize illegal immigration.\n\nSometimes it sucks at a humanitarian level, but it's fair.", "He had 30 years to become a citizen. Back to the shithole he goes. ", "Yea. You’re so cool online calling people pussies. ", "Do you really think the IRS is just gonna ignore the 10 million+ illegal immigrants? The IRS gets paid one way or another. Maybe not by all, but by most. ", "I DON'T AGREE WITH THE LAWS AND YOU'RE A CUNT SKREEEEEEEEEEEEEE ^^^^^^^^^s", "It's a word with negative connotation. He didn't \"act badly\", and the sooner you replace words like that and \"squatting\" in your vocabulary the sooner you'll grow as an understanding human being.", "What does MLK have to do with this? While there should be a program for him to legalize, illegal is illegal haha", "/r/upliftingnews", "I don't think you have thought this one through. How much time should somebody be in the US illegally while paying taxes for them to be granted citizenship and why that amount? ", "It may be true that he had a family in a risky situation, but even so, I still think its wrong to punish him over something that happened to him as a child. Its unfortunate irony that now his children will suffer for this. We should just change the policy so people in that situation can stay, I really don't think this is helping anybody. ", "Agree with a lot of what you say and I think legislating DACA can definitely be paired with better immigration enforcement.\n\nWe are where we are and so letting DACA people (who have voluntarily come forward to register with the DACA program and kept a clean record, gone to school etc) stay makes sense to me - sure ideally things wouldn't have got here, but we are where we are so I think it's compassionate to let them stay. But if we want to prevent more issues like this in the future, sure lets make sure we appropriately fund and manage the immigration system. What alarms me at the moment isn't that we're talking about stronger immigration enforcement - I'm up for that. What makes me uncomfortable is the idea that a big wall will fix the problem (it won't), and that we are pushing away refugees (which is a different program to immigration) and the whole inflammatory \"shithole\" stuff.\n\nBut better immigration enforcement? Sure! Lets do it. Seems like good compromise should be possible. \n", "There aren't enough planes or boats for that to be a problem. And we currently have more land than we know what to do with. Just make it a stipulation that any immigrants have to initially move to a city of less than a certain population size and we won't have to deal with overcrowding in the cities. \n\nIt's not like it's going to open us up to more attacks either, since there are already plenty of ways for our enemies to get here. Laws don't do anything to deter criminals, after all.", "I am on the left, and I'm American. You're pretending we had to pay a fee when we were born here, lol. I don't know how they do it outside Moscow where your family raised you but in Murica we call it FREEDOM.\n\nI got something for free, and I say that if someone is willing to pay for it, let them have it. If your parents are confronted by Disney staff, they should be offered the chance to pay. This man would certainly pay for it.", "Did we just find mutual respect for each other on opposite sides of an argument? If that happens on reddit, isn't that a sign of the apocalypse? ;-)", "Lots of things, for one he may have bee. Legally barred from entering the country for a period afterwards, among others ", "So he comes to America because his parents want a better life for his family. He’s 10. Can’t control where his parents take him. He goes to school, makes friends, literally spends his formidable adolescent years in America. He turns 18, out from his parent’s guardianship and just says “you know what, these 8 years were cool and everything but I’m going back to where I came from because I need to do this legally.” No. That doesn’t happen. This is why DACA is so important. ", "ITT: MAGA retards pretending to care about MLK day", "Ridiculous ", "Source?", "I 100% guarantee that you've broken laws. Everyone has, because many of our laws are so antiquated. The only way we distinguish between laws like that and laws like this is in how they are enforced. And often laws leave intentional ambiguity in case of things that the lawmakers cannot predict.\n\nSo is it different in his case because he broke a law that matters to you? Had you been in his situation, where any action you take to pursue citizenship might reveal that you've been living undocumented since you were 10, are you confident you'd have made choices that would've guaranteed you a place in this society?", "He was 10. He knew. This is not a thing to question.", "Has he ever committed any crimes?\n\n", "ACAB ", "Tons or similar heart wrenching rage inducing incidents. I can't believe this shit is happening. Not the the immigration process was ever streamlined to begin.", "Marrying a citizen doesn't automatically give you a green card. People marry foreign citizens all the time in other countries, all it does is automatically give them a sponsor. It can still be denied.", "Who are you going to fight in the pics subreddit here tough guy?", "I think we need to separate immigrants from refugees. If you're fleeing violence or a country that is not doing anything about the violence you should be able to file under refugee status. I'm not an expert on the application for refugees, it's probably not great either. I do think we need to separate the categories before we have a discussion.\n\nI believe we can be a safe harbor for refugees, but I wouldn't want them to go back once the violence has ended. I understand that sometimes violence never ends so it's complicated. My point is that refugees are different category and should be looked at differently.", "Ugly: Millions of people who have broken the law to step in front of honest people seeking to immigrate.\n\nAlso, ask yourself why being in the US is so important. I live in Texas, and Mexico is a shithole of drug cartels, crime, and poverty. Why does this article sound like he's being sent to hell? Why is Mexico hell? They have massive natural resources. \n\nThey need to fix their country, and then Mexico won't be a punishment.", "Hah get fucked", "Do they speak spanish?\n\nHell the father was brought to the US when he was 10, does he even speak spanish anymore?", "I understand that, but the age doesn't matter nor does it alter the fact that there is a reason it's illegal. I'm sorry for his family, but that's all. Downvote me if y'all want, IDGAF. I support deportation of illegals.", "> Oh, then how about you shut the fuck up and deal with your own shitty government and problems.\n\nOh! So you agree it is okay to call foreign countries \"shitholes\" then?", "Neither of my parents are from Mexico. I speak Spanish. How is your lack of language skills the problem of the US government? Is there a special immigration clause that will suddenly grant citizenship to people who don't speak another language? ", "Gotta love the \"law means everything\" mentality when it fits their cause. Imagine a future president appointing some left-leaning SCOTUS judges and the Court interprets the second amendment in a way that reduces what are now viewed as commonplace gun rights. How many of these \"law means everything\" (i.e., \"what's 'right' doesn't matter\") conservatives suddenly switch their stance to \"law doesn't matter--it's not right\" as they proclaim \"if you want my guns, you can come and get 'em!\"", "Y... you know that's not how it works, right? You remind me of the Office episode where Michael Scott thinks he can just say \"I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!\"", "His kids are citizens here, not in Mexico. Their lives are here. Sure they could visit, but that’s not really the same as having a dad in your life. ", "Illegal immigeation has negative consequences. Who would have thought?", "Would these millions of 10 year old immigrants be coming alone?", "You “follow the law” because your parents just happened to shit you out on American soil. You didn’t do anything special to earn your American citizenship.\nMost illegals are far more deserving of citizenship than the typical bubba gimp American like yourself.\n\nSo yes, I’ll send 1000 if you off for one hard working “illegal” any day of the week. ", "No, once you enter the county illegally you can't apply for citizenship. You have to leave and then try and go through the process, which is not easy at all. ", "Isn't assuming race kind of a bad thing? ", "What?", "He’s certainly assimilated after being here since he was young and having a family of his own here though, so that point is null and void.\n\nYou simply have no compassion for anyone but yourself, I understand.", "So why were they not punished?\n\nEverybody seems happy enough to ensure that the lawbreaker is dealt with in this case, so why is the same principle not applied to the example I gave?\n\nYou say it should apply to everyone, but it clearly doesn’t. That injustice exists. So what are you doing about it? ", "Not sure if you're retarded or just being sarcastic. Put an /s, it's hard to tell over the internet.", ">Are they pouring more money into the economy than they drain out by breaking the law and making enforcement hunt them down? Wonder what the compensation package cost yearly is for a single ICE agent, wonder what the average immigrant puts in\n\nIllegal immigrants being here legitimises ICE and makes them more than just a jobs program :\\^)\n\n>Sorry guy, I don't care. My family came legally from South America, my parents worked hard, made MANY sacrifices, more than one can imagine.\n\nI think I can imagine this though, since my family came from Jamaica, and I myself am first gen american...\n\n>I hope this guy never sees his family in the illegally again, we shouldn't even offer him a chance for a temp visa, he's a criminal and has caused hardship to immigrants who deserve to come here.\n\nLOL I don't think I could ever fully understand why Salvadorans/Hundrians/etc. so strongly align with republicans. You do understand that all countries south of the Rio Grande, and Puerto Rico are apart of the 'shithole' that aren't wanted in the U.S., right?", "Well here's the thing. Canada has many flaws, such as begging for immigrants while having a huge waiting list of illegals needing help already.. Also that time when Trudeau gave millions to an ex al qaeda who killed a US soldier for being in guantanamo. He also praised Castro and since he released the al qaeda guy after a deadline, the wife of the dead soldier couldn't get a dime of the money that she won through the lawsuit..\n\n\nNetherlands has a radical islamic problem, being from this region myself (as an islamic refugee) i can confirm that sadly. There are marches that are pro ISIS and nobody dares to say anything against it.. Mosques are being built in which it has been proven that they plan to radicalize the youth.. So that's a thing a dutchman could be more ashamed of.\n\n\nSweden is a mess, has the most rapes in Europe by migrants, no go zones and cities such as Malmo are known to be ridden with crime. Not to mention the stupid laws about if your son wants to be a third gender your obligated to call him a \"hen\". Grandma's complaining on facebook about migrants shittiing on the street will get fined etc etc.\n\nNorway is good? Well they have pretty strict immigration laws in which this situation would also occur. So no, there's no need to be \"ashamed\" of being American as it's one of the best countries.. ", "The best advice you can ever give to someone thinking of immigrating to the US or who is having immigration issues in general is \"get a lawyer\". Lots of rules and lots of exceptions to the rules.", "Why would he not be able to come back at all of he had left voluntarily earlier? ", ">You should try not using irrelevant whataboutism to make a point. Who was in charge during the Elian Gonzales fiasco is entirely irrelevant to the conversation. \n\nWhy not? Same logical fallacies were used in his case.\n\n>The rest of your point is ridiculous. Just up and moving to a new country temporarily costs a bunch of money, never mind that he can't just move to Canada or wherever he wants. There are about a million things that could and probably would go wrong. Where does he work? Who pays the bills at the original house? Or does the family move to? Also, if they move, can the American wife and kids even move too?\n\nWell he is a citizen of some country, isn't he? If he was smart and aware of his illegal status and potential deportation, he would have made arrangements so both he and his family had a safety net to fall back on. Even if it meant moving back to his home country. \n\nNow if he was an idiot, he would have made the same excuses that you have been making. \nI honestly hope he wasn't anything like you.\n\n>For every \"oh they should have just done this\" there are about a thousand reasons why they couldn't. Try thinking about that instead of assuming something you likely never will have to deal with is easy or simple in any way.\n\nYeah well that happens to millions of people all around the world. There is something called personal responsibility.", "People are letting feelings get in the way of facts. Whether or not deportation is the best solution in a case like this is up for debate, but the fact is that he was living here illegally, and not just as a kid, but for decades as an adult. ", "👍", "Are you saying that an illegal immigrant child is given automatic citizenship anywhere else in the world including Japan or Australia? I know they're not given it in my country and will be deported if caught. (Malaysia). ", "Youre a fucking idiot", "This is cute. You paint a picture like this guy is a victim.\n\nThis guy isn't innocent of anything. No one held a gun to his head and made him stay here the entire time he was here. \n\nHe turned 18 and chose to stay. He broke the law.", "The law isn't the final moral authority here. ", "He could have left and returned to his home country at 18 and applied to come back legally. He knew the law and what he was doing was illegal and took a chance that he wouldn't be caught.", "As an immigrant, I'm amazed you're perfectly okay with families being ripped apart by this. If you came here as a 10 year old, what were you supposed to have done? You'd have had zero recourse. What 10 year old deports themselves?\n\nLetting this family stay together harms zero fucking people. Have some compassion, man.", "what the fuck is wrong with us?", "nobody believes that. ", "Trump won the office because Hillary was a bad candidate and there are a lot more easily manipulated, ignorant, white people in this country than we thought. Racism is alive and well. ", "America the beautiful I guess...Land of the fre...home of the brrrvvv...Honestly can't deal with this bullshit anymore. We set our rhetoric to such a high standard and we do so little to live up to it. This goes to my neighbors, my friends, and family, we all are willing to voice our concerns. But we don't take action and now this is a direct result. Honestly fuck yall who don't do more than you can. Your freedoms aren't a birth right, they are temporary privileges that can go with ease. If you don't fight for those privileges they will go away. Education, free speech, and others are not stripped, but defiled and warped gradually, if you won't hand out pamphlets, call your congress man, or vote...then perhaps those privileges deserve to go. Get the fuck out, build the community you want to be apart of. This country is not what I want to be apart of it means this family will needlessly be separated from one another,", "Come across to Ontario, friend. ", "I edited my comment as it didn’t reflect my intention. I meant quite the opposite so I’m sorry if I caused offense. \n\nI don’t think this man should be ripped from his family. Chances are he works harder than a lot of Americans who want to make “America great again”. ", "Hahaha I’ve read your other comments. No one with illegal immigrant family members would spew the nonsense you have been. You should check your bullshit kiddo, because no one is buying it. You are pathetically transparent down to your username.", "> Still to this day many people say they like the ACA but hate Obamacare.\n\n\ndo you know of anybody who says this", "ITT: lots of people trying to explain why they don't have feels and why that's OK", "Given all the times socialism has tried and failed, leading to mass starvation, it's not \"anti-intellectual\" to oppose it.", "But but but our safety! ", "What are you trying to say? ", "He should spend some time at r/maliciouscompliance. ", "Not true. I just went through the immigration process 3 years ago... you have to (or had to) fill out a specific form and pay a big fine, then you could start the paperwork process. \n\nFYI. Legal immigrant from the Caribbean ", "i feel bad if thats what you really think", "So they're both breaking the law. Fuck over the illegal workers and fuck over the employers too for being shady cunts. ", "Yeah everything about immigration is sloooooow and expensive. I don’t remember how much citizenship would be for my husband at the moment but I know it would definitely be around that much if not more. I think adjusting his status from out of status F1 to LPR was like $2000 something after all the fees and vaccines he had to get and that stupid medical exam. ", "That is the dumbest argument in this thread. What you described is trickle down economics, which has been proven over and over to not be true. Additionally, a trip to the Carribbean (which is a stupid example because most parents in the middle and lower classes still need to pay for basics in life and provide for their kids and would not take a Carribbean vacation) would still put a lot of money into the US economy if they did go. They're paying a US airline to fly them, after buying luggage from US stores, after buying US passports at the US post office, after paying a US travel agency (in USD) to book their hotel and rental vehicle.\n\n-\n\nIf you gave that money to a billionaire, who can already afford to hire as many assistants as he wants, will not create any addition jobs. If he needed more workers, he would have already hired them because he already had enough money to afford it. Instead, he will likely put the new money into an offshore tax haven (think panama papers) where he will not pay taxes on it. You're also confusing billionaires with billion dollar corporations, which are what employ thousands of people, not the billionaires themselves. \n", "I would argue that’s the law functioning as it’s intended, though. You intentionally broke the law in an attempt to game the system and stay longer than you knew you legally should have.\n\nI mean, I have sympathy, but it’s not like being sent back to Canada is the worst fate.", "So a judge is going to grant warrants based on photographic evidence from the new drones. But they won’t do that now based on current surveillance because.....why exactly?\n\nOwning land along the border is not a crime. Allowing the government to access someone’s land over and over and over again because ICE believes that an undocumented immigrant might be on the proerty is not something the justice system has supported. With good reason.", "So... exactly like his parents did coming here? \nOr is his old country, in fact, a shithole then? \nI don't know what to think anymore man, what great liberal media idea should I subscribe to? \nIt would be fucking stupid to build a life in a theatre, I'd leave and go outside, and not be breaking the law.", "You can't defend the existence of a law by repeatedly stating the fact that it's a law.", "Happy MLK day shithole Trump!", "Good", "You’re painting Mexicans with a pretty broad stroke there. The reality of Mexico, as someone who lived there for two years, is much more diverse than what you’ve described. ", "You people read to much into this shit. Its a sad situation depicted by a photo. Take what u will from it but dont act like a response is or was needed. Something should be done and shouldve been done but bitchin on reddit for attention isnt going to solve much my comment included.", "[The top 1% have 40% of the wealth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States) and there is a big difference between wealth and income. ", "or 2020-2021 with different POTUS", "If he doesn't know his family, or the languague? What if his family died out? ", "It would be a struggle, but it wouldn't be life shattering for him to move temporarily out of the country to apply for citizenship at 18, unlike being found out at the age of 40 with wife and kids", "Its an ignorant law, this person is american and shouldnt be deported ", "And what jobs do most illegals take? Cash money jobs that they don't have to film out forms for. \n\nThey also receive benefits that other Americans around me aren't able to, which is ludacris, considering they aren't ILLEGAL. ", "Give me a break. This stuff happened all the time. This is a cherry picked situation so the media can generate clicks ($), which are guaranteed when anything Trump related is floated out to the permanently outraged public. He’s a goldmine, and peoples’ anger turns off their brains. ", "There is no path to legal status for those who entered illegaly. What was he supposed to do, exactly?", "Yeah, it was also founded on having a much smaller federal government than it does. With the increased number of state run programs (which I suppose do practically make the US a charity), it is not smart nor sustainable to continue letting that many immigrants into the US. ", "It's being canceled now is it not", "\"this guy is more American than some people I know because he has kids and I uhh ASSUME that he pays taxes and has a job!\"", "I agree wholeheartedly. The case of this man, however, is a totally different story. He was brought to the USA as a child, and he then made the best out of what he was given. It would be entirely different if he illegally crossed over the border as an adult. Tearing the man away from his family is not okay. If anything, it just gives incentive for his children to despise the country they grew up in. Absolutely unnecessary.", "HAHAHAAHHHHAHha", "It takes far less than 30 years. ", "> Fuckin really? So what, he turns 18 and just says \"alright, deport me. I'll just get sent back to...somewhere and apply! Fingers crossed!\" Get fucking REAL. This is his HOME. Born and raised. People don't even like leaving the safety of their lives to protest but you're saying this kid should've voluntarily had himself deported to a foreign country because of something his parents did? And for what?????\n\nHe fucking grew up for 10 fucking years in another country. It shouldn't exactly be foreign to him.\n\nAnd no he shouldn't just say 'deport me' and wonder where he will wind up. He should just leave the country himself and go wherever he wanted to in the country he was from. If he was set up enough to where you would think this is 'his home,' he should be able to figure out how to get to his country of origin.\n\nThis isn't his home born and raised. Literally, he was a decade away from the US when he was born. So no, he doesn't get all the rights of being born here. It's the game he knew he was playing and he knew the game could end any day, and today was it. ", "You are mentally ill. I'm not fan of illegal immigration either, but you've got a problem. ", "Mental gymnastics? He broke the law and he got punished for it, how is that mental gymnastics? He left when he was 10 which is why he doesn't qualify for DACA, he'll have learned Spanish before English, if he was 3 when he left then maybe I'd agree with you, but he wasn't, he'd have a pretty good grasp of what it was like before, also do you think when a family comes to another country illegally, they just instantly adopt all cultures of that new country? They don't. if you don't want to get arrested or deported, you shouldn't break the law, which he continued to do for 22 years after his 18th birthday. Again it's a shitty situation but ultimately he's been breaking the law for 30 years", "He cannot. He may will never see them again. He is barred from entry for a minimum of 10 years.\n\nHis best bet would be to return illegally again, but will be risking death and jail to do so. He is unlikely to ever legally return.", "oh okay thanks", "This is true. I think some people have this notion that an illegal immigrant can just go to the Post Office and apply for a Green Card or citizenship, but it just doesn't work that way. Of course, comíng here illegally definitely didn't help his cause.", "propaganda bots and sockpuppets are working hard to get their narrative in the top spots", "The fuckin screaming electron! Oh the trouble I got into on that site growing up. No regrats", "Sanctuary!", "For 30 years an illegal immigrant thought nothing about the consequences of not pursuing citizenship. When he gets deported for being a fuckup we're supposed to feel bad? Seems to me 3 decades is more than enough time to reflect on how your family will go on without you, how the cartels are going to have fun with a fresh and desperate deportee.", "No loving father would commit their kids lives to a lesser future like that. And that's if they even speak/read/write in Spanish in order to even integrate and live there.\n\nEdit: Identifying that there is a difference in standard of living/opportunity of success is not racist, what kind of dumb notion is that? If I said raising your kids in Syria gives them a lesser future than raising them in United Arab Emirates...wouldn't that be true? They're both Arab countries so how would that be racist?", "> The people who assume it is so easy to get permanent residency are often the same who assume it is easy to get ID for voting.\n\nIt should be harder for illegal immigrants to obtain citizenship. Maybe don't illegally enter the country and then demand citizenship? Just a thought. ", "The resources that would take would be horrendous. Not to mention how the 14th amendment would be used", "It's ad hom because you going after the person other stances to paint them as immoral/bad person. Since they a bad person, their stances are bad. You are not focusing on the issue. Could also argue it is a strawman since you have declared all their other positions for them as well. \n\nWith fallacies definitions a few usually fit. I see it more as ad hom since you made it clear you are talking about the person in your post. Not about the issue.", "the crazy part is the fact that you went to a lawyer who does business with human traffickers, and apparently that's no big deal. ", "And then could of reapplied and came legally.... illegal is illegal no matter how much time passes.", "A citizen earning the same income often wouldn't be taxed either. The US is divided into tax brackets. ", "This is a big issue I wasn't aware of. We should rally redditors and petition that Mexico become more welcoming with their immigration policy.", "The negatives don't outweigh the positives. ", "Ahh I see. I wasn't asking for links, just where you got your ideas from. Have a nice day! ", "I agree with that. I agree that 30 years, so basically 22 years as an adult he should have straightened his shit out. That is a valid argument. However, original comment of his fault for coming here is fucking obsurd. And it shows a prejudice to assume that sort of thinking. You have never walked a step in this man's shoes, or the others you most likely slam. So slow it down, have some compassion. Yeah, he fucked up, but it doesn't make it easier for a man to leave his family. ", "Sometimes laws aren't well equipped for a growing society. Until the system is revamped people should come first. Always. ", "These babies are getting citizenship to go to American Universities when they are older. Once the kids live here they can then sponsor their parents to gain citizenship too.\nThis doesn't just happen here but in most North and South American countries. The US, Canada, and Brazil are likely the most abused.", "...and?", "Oh my God just take a cruise to America and walk off the boat.", "A lot of Trump supporters do. ", "Well the meaning of the word doesn’t change...", "> He had the last almost 6 years to apply for a green card.\n\nYou want to know how I know you're ignorant?", "Yeah he was torn away from his life and loved ones for 10+ years AS A RESULT OF HIS OWN ACTIONS. I guess you don't understand the concept of personal responsibility though.", "Solid argument bro, we have no choice but to pander to them or else they’ll just leave. That really makes me sympathize with the wealthy, they’re attempting to hold a gun to my head. Why wouldn’t I just respond with force? If they can’t be reasoned with I don’t see why their assets can’t simply be seized. We do it to drug dealers. We should also do it to wealthy people who try to move offshore. \n\nIn reality France should have been more forceful", "Well I mean they are shitholes...", "You can’t apply for citizenship if you’ve came illegally.", "I dont think it's a thing to think of... especially when 10. Was he supposed to hit 16 and say im old enough to be dependent and apply? They are living here. I dont think a part of living is wondering if you are gonna be deported or not. ", "Too bad not their laws!", "This is just wrong. If his parents brought him to the US when he was a child and he remained in the US until now, he would NOT have a ten year bar. He would have 10 year inadmissibility but he would be able to immediately apply to return with a waiver. \n\nThe 10 year bar that everyone’s referring to comes up when somebody 1) is deported and sneaks back in, or 2) is in the US unlawfully for 1 year, leaves, and then sneaks back in. Notably, it NEVER applies to someone who has only entered the US one time, regardless of how they got here. \n\nIf you don’t believe me, please read 8 USC 1182(a)(9). ", "I'm glad.\n\nFor this particular example? He did do something wrong. He was here illegally for 30 years. I guess that's not enough time to take the necessary steps to not stop the inevitable act of being deported from your \"home\" knowing you are an illegal alien.\n\nNothing is wrong with me; facts and have no feelings. \n\nIllegal alien = deport. No exceptions. \n\nEdit: spelling, ugh.", "Ok, so now we have a massive population of 10yo kids without parents that need care because their parents have been deported. Is that really what you meant?", "Weird. As I know several people who were illegally brought to the US before age 18 and are now able to stay in the US.", "Well that is a core fundamental of republican ideology. Would you disagree with me that a legal citizen who has only taken from our system and not contributed anything at all is a net negative compared to an illegal that has contributed exponentially more? \n\nSo a deadbeat loser who is a drain on the economy is more beneficial for our society than a contributing hardworking illegal?", "exactly", "And being an illegal resident has no guarantees either, on account of it being illegal. \n\nYou know it’s illegal to drive without a license, so you take the risk every day because getting a license is complicated, confusing and not guaranteed. When you get pulled over, do you expect not to face the punishment that you’ve known about all along?", "I like how it took attaching \"Russian\" to the story before Democrats would give a shit about anchor babies.", "Whenever I read stories like this I always wonder what criminal history does this Jose guy have? Why did he have an order for removal? ", "But then you have to admit you're here illegally. So they lied on a federal document, fraud. Racking up the felonies.", "Go to mexico and apply for citizenship. ", "It isnt as easy as just applying for a green card or citizenship. There are certain requirements that need to be met that not many people can meet. People do want to apply for legal status but unfortunately there is no path to do so", "You should explain how this is relevant to this discussion on ethics.", "Obviously not familiar with the case but it’s quite possible to end up in a scenario where no lawyer can ever help you out off. You really should take a closer look at US immigration law. That particular part is pretty difficult to get around. Quite likely this guy is doomed to not be able to attend major events in his kid’s lives unless they move to Mexico as well. It likely is pretty bad.", "So, just to be clear, if you found out that your parents illegally immigrated here from Russia when you were one, and you were deported tomorrow, you would have zero problem with that? ", "Nothing in that quote suggests that King supported unjust laws in general, or repressive actions by immigration authorities that broke up American families specifically. \n\nIn fact he said it was a duty to stand up to unjust laws just like this one. ", "If he came here illegally, say by his family smuggling him across the border or crossing with fraudulent papers/documentation, then he had no legal options to begin with. If he married an American citizen he could file for an adjustment of status, but only if he entered the country legally and overstayed his visa. At least, that is what I’m doing with my wife, whose visa expired when she was 12 or thereabouts.", "How long is the Canadian immigration process?", "Do you really expect every consumer to research every product they buy so as to know where it was made and by whom? These people are just trying to spend the least amount as possible on what they want/need, the same as everyone else. Are you telling me you buy the more expensive but moral option for every good you buy? Do the poor not also buy the cheapest goods available? ", "You have to live your life. Even when your parents have set you up in a no-win situation.", "exactly. Do you want a Dr who was given permission to operate on patients, because \"well he's been at this hospital for 30 years, so...\" Nope. I'd like one who has PROOF of his education.", "Absolutely sickening, condolences are with his family.", "Obama deported more than any other president.\n\nhttp://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661\nObama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President - ABC ...", "Ohhh... so now its not taxes. funny. It's \"overall economy\" I like that now we've moved the goalpost. Because NOTHING in ANY of that copy pasta. Has ANYTHING stating immigrants pay more into taxes than they cost the government.\n\nBut lets work on this goalpost. NAFTA which is also \"A overall netgain\" Where did those gains go? Workers pockets? Or investors? Over 90% to the 1%. Meanwhile workers wages fell or stagnated or just stopped existing.\n\nThat \"Net gain\" they are talking about. Is just them getting to slash wages. Yah, overall more money gets made. BY INVESTORS. \n\n\nBut just want to state again...Your taxes bullshit. We are clear now that was 100% horseshit now right\n\nBTW? do you READ any of the actual peer reviewed studies? Or do you just read arrticles or reddit posts ABOUT said study?", "Wanna expand on that?", "It is a stupid term and this comment thread proves it.\n\nThis guy clearly deserved a better chance to become a legal citizen. However, there are plenty of conservatives throwing around the term \"illegal immigrant\" in an attempt to dehumanize him and argue that his feelings and rights don't matter. According to them, he doesn't deserve justice, because he broke an unjust law on a technicality. That's why illegal immigrant is a stupid and meaningless term in this context. ", "How the fuck do you live here for 30 years and not get citizenship? \n\nWhy should we cry for you?\n\nPlus what’s so bad about the country he is from?", "Yeah. Press 1 to visit dad a few days a year on a middle class income. Press 2 to move there permanently and leave behind everything you built or know. \n\nSo simple. ", "Ship em. Illegal is illegal", "Why blame \"humanity\" when the fault lies mostly with conservatives and Trump supporters who are having orgasms in this thread over this event?", "Think about this in bigger picture, though. This argument is saying that every child that sets foot on US soil should automatically be eligible for citizenship. Walk across the border with your parents, you’re in. Come for vacation and your parents just decide to stay, you’re in. \n\nI feel bad, don’t get me wrong, but you have to draw a consistent line. ", "The US is the richest nation of Earth. If you want to talk about bankrupting the country, start with the social services that costs American’s billions every year. Of which, a large part of illegal immigrants do not even contribute to—either dept or surplus. \n\nDid you know how much tax revenue illegal immigration actually brings in? Billions. Every year. In California alone, that is a massive revenue stream. That is not even to speak of the fact that crime has seen its lowest figure since the 1960s. \n\nIllegal immigrants are not bankrupting the country, nor will they. ", "Don't be apologetic for me..\n\nI will participate in the revolt when it begins to make sure we get rid of borders. \n\nIt's such a disgraceful waste that any Human is killed because of them. Nationalism is a cancer to the world and Humanity, patriotism is too. ", "I mean, that sucks and all, but seems like you knew how it was going to play out and rolled the dice and lost. in retrospect, wouldn't you say you should have made some different choices?", "I know of someone who had been in the U.S. for a while on a student or work visa and had been in the application process to become a U.S. citizen, but because he left the country to visit some of his family members during that process, he was denied re-entry to the U.S. and has to wait 10 years to re-apply. It's bullshit.", "So much tears 😭😭 I’m sorry this is happening to so many people. ", "One updoot for you ", "It doesn't have to make sense, as long as you take your pants off", "The end result is that their children are citizens who can return legally. But to get there involves various kinds of fraud, such as lying about the purpose of your visit.", "So you're saying that either a 10 year old child continued to live ignorant of the complex american immigration law that is written in foreign to him language that takes a lot of time for native speakers of said language to learn it (and pay a lot of money doing it) OR he already somehow knew it and MALICIOUSLY decided to ignore it, therefore making a conscious decision every day of his child life to break the law. \n\nThis is what you are implying? ", ">> I don't see them protesting for H1B and other legal immigrant struggles. \n>\n>You wouldn't even recognize me if you saw me protesting so please don't claim to know what I care about, when I care about it, and how I show it.\n\nActually i can see you with an Antifa mask. ", "You know the more you throw that word around when it doesn't apply just diminishes the meaning when it does. ", "The law is the law, and MLK has nothing to do with immigration, dude should have applied for citizenship.", "We are supposed to feel sorry for him? He has been on the U.S. for 30 years and couldn’t become a citizen in that time? Let this be a lesson to people who want to leach off our system and refuse to assimilate.", "Solid logic there, mate, it truly is something impossible to know./s", "Immigration laws.", "At some point we must have a test for citizenship, whether you agree with birthright citizenship or not we must be able to say \"This person is a citizen\" or not. Unless you're proposing changing our entire governmental and tax system to treat everyone the same which inherently opens borders causing a multitude of problems being discussed in comments below.\n\nWe have well-defined rules on what makes you legally American. Until or unless we change that system, people like Mr. Garcia must be treated equally and fairly under the law. He was 10 when he came here, he speaks spanish, he knew he was here illegally and could be deported at any moment but he chose start a family rather than returning home. At some point you can't feel bad for someone who just assumed they could get away with it their entire life.", "I'm inclined to disagree. Obeying the law is one of the most important parts of being an american citizen. It's why federal offenders get their voting privileges revoked. I got lucky enough to be born an american citizen, but I also pay my dues. I obey the law and I pay my taxes. When somebody immigrates illegally, they're not acting accordingly with how an american citizen is supposed to do things. ", "Give them all the ability to stay without worry, and they can begin to move up and become wealthier and pay back. ", "It's because it discourages the wealthy from doing anything other than investing. Like, why should they go out and actually work when they'll have to pay higher taxes on that than they would if they just invested. That wouldn't be too much of a problem, except for the fact that basically everything is going up, so why risk investing in anything risky? You can make tons of money just investing in giant companies that already have hundreds of billions of dollars in the bank. \n\nBeing able to safely make tons of money basically keeps us from moving forward as a society. Especially since those safe investments are heavily subsidized by the government. Like, you don't have to worry about any of them going under, because the government will bail them out since they're \"too big to fail\". I mean, [just look](https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_recenttrends.htm) at how large the FED balance sheet has gotten since 2008. They created trillions of dollars worth of money out of thin air and gave it to the same big banks that caused the 2008 crash with their greed and lies. They're still rolling over around $30 billion worth of treasuries each month.", "I dunno if you read the article or bot, but basically they can't offer up your tax return info unless they are request as part of an investigation by the other authority (FBI etc). However, if the IRS audits you and collects information that way, they can and will give that over on their own.", "Thats what you get for skipping the line", "It doesn't make sense. I know people who are here illegally and they bought a house, got married, divorced, has to go to court for child support. How can someone be apart of all these things and get by without being a citizen. I'm not taking sides here but if we gonna let people get that far into the system I think it's our job to continue doing so. ", "Believe it or not, many Americans are like that guy. Just like racism, there are a large number of Americans that might not say shit like that in public around people they want to like them - but in private are very much assholes.", "30 years on the run is a long time for a criminal to be in hiding, hopefully now his soul will find some peace, while he gets in line to come back legally", "You have to go back", "If you're not concerned about showing your rascism then why are you engaging in this childish argument? ", "According to Rasmussen he's at 46%\n\nhttp://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_jan15", "Its really sad.\n", "No way, government intervention is the reason it's so damned expensive in the first place. ", "Are you aware of how ridiculously hard it is to become a citizen? ", "Preventing 10 parents with kids in Mexico from jumping the border tomorrow because they see it doesn't work?", "Well sorry about your lack of empathy", "Lol you're the one who brought up political parties dumbass, notice how I never once mentioned parties until you did? Fuck off man", "TIL: Spending an indefinite time in a country is only possible while being illegal. ", "At what point do you think the wealthy have too much money? Is it when the top 1% have 30% of the money? 50%? 75%? 90%? 99%? Like, what's your number where you say stop and say \"holy shit, the rich don't do X% of the work, why do they have X% of the money?\"", "[Politicians intentionally underfund the entire system, including the courts](https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/inside-the-immigration-process/). It's a political yo-yo. But ya know, everyone wants to build a wall instead of actually fixing the problem.", "You are stupid as hell. Blacks are not forced to commit crimes. Just like the guy being deported worked under the table for years, they also collected food stamps and other government benefits according the deportation brief filed. He was defrauding the government. You have my pity. You brag about buying dead peoples SSN on reddit. You're a scum bag. ", "You assume I’m liberal because I call you out on your logical fallacy? What?\n", "He would have had to leave the country without US border guards knowing. Apply from outside, and he'd probably have to wait 5-7 years for a visa number to become avaliable. \n\nDoes he leave his US Citizen kids in the US where they probably have infinitely better opportunities, or take them with you back into Mexico sacrificing their opportunities but being with them? A tough choice for a parent, and dramatically impacts the kids in both cases. ", "Well, you have to hire an immigration lawyer and you can't have any type of criminal record. Other than that, you would have to talk to an immigration lawyer to find out everything that has to be completed to get the process started. The point is, that there is a path to citizenship. It is not easy, it is expensive and it take a long time but there is a way to get legal to protect your family and the life you have built.", "Welcome to the Dreamers' struggle for 17 years. This is what people mean when we say the system is broken.", "So gome back to a country he hasn't seen in, what, 10 years? With no job or way to maintain his life as he applies for citizenship?", "Is he not given the same protection as pregnant women who come to the US and give birth? ", "How do you live in the US for 30 years and not file for citizenship? Pretty stupid on his part.", "Not allowed to lie at the border and say you're going to Vermont for the day while actually going to Louisiana for an undetermined length of time though. You'd think that would have made things harder.\n\nAside from that though, you're right.", "It's not throwing laws by the wayside to selectively enforce with good reason. You don't get pulled over for going 1 mph over the speed limit, or even 5 generally, because (1) you're not harming anyone and (2) the resources it'd take to deal with that infraction are better spent going after more serious offenders that are more likely to cause harm. Same reasoning behind why it's a bad idea for police to crack down on 80 year old potheads even though they're violating the law too. Law enforcement should be using the law to go after people who need to be gone after, not the people who literally do no harm.", "Smoking a joint is also illegal in most places, so is pirating GoT. The question is, what causes more harm - the crime or the law?", "This is a fucking retarded argument. Sure we have had more immigration in the past. But we're also more populated than we've ever been. There are legal and legitimate routes for immigrating in and he chose in those 30 years to never even attempt going through the proper channels. Fuck off.", "What America needs to do: REVOKE all criminal citizenship and replace them with hard working, tax contributing and socially responsible individuals. ", "Actually, you are.(www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/three-and-ten-year-bars) ", "So are you telling me that it's fair to punish a man who, as far as I can tell was an upstanding citizen, because his parents came here illegally? Seems rather biblical to me ", "Shit the worlds unfair, lets just open all borders. Hell lets just give America to Mexico. In other news to bad, not our problem.", "Why do you assume they do? Dude was 10 when he was brought here, from my own experience with immigrants I would not be surprised in the least if he himself forgot spanish by this point. Doubt he spoke Spanish with his American wife, so his children didn't learn Spanish outside a classroom if they even did learn. Hell, from what you are implying, my father should know Polish and my mother should know Italian and German, none of which is true.\n\nAnd even when claiming it is a difficult path, you still make it sound much easier than it is. We are talking about sacrificing your job, leaving the country you grew up in, going to a country you know nothing about where you don't know absolutely anyone, and either without your family or forcing them to do the same, without even being sure you can make it back. That's well beyond \"dificult\", it's simply not an option. To put things in perspective, that's roughly what half of one of my grandparent's family did when Hitler was talking about how Jews are all rats who deserve nothing but suffering and should be exterminated, while the other half chose to take their chances by staying in Germany until it was too late to run away, hoping desperately that things just wouldn't get worse. That's how grueling of a process it can be.\n", "There is no process to apply that is amazing that a lot of Americans don't understand that. You can't apply for anything... not a license, business license, work permit, any form of legal status or even temporary stay. Nothing...zilch!", "I don't know why people would say such wicked things, or who they are, because I'm just so dumbfounded that this is currently reality.", "Good. Dont break the law.", "Do it! Make their lives, and America, better for it.", "Yeah because at 10 years old he had a say in the matter, right? No, obviously not. So what's he supposed to do? Leave his home when he turns 18? He didn't ask to come here. He made a life here, paid taxes, paid his rent/mortgage, raised children. So now he deserves to be sent back to a country and culture that he doesn't even know? And an extremely dangerous one at that. If you truly believe that, you may want to try to have a little more empathy in your life, it could be rewarding. ", "People think Canada is welcoming with open arms. But he is too poor to move to Canada. ", "It is not a thing to question because you say so?", "Yes many other countries have harsh immigration laws, and hopefully those change in the future. But they are at least understandable in countries with a large native population.\n\nBut America is a nation of immigrants to begin with. So hopefully we can live up to the values that the country was supposed to be founded upon and lead by example.\n\nWho am I to turn someone away that is here to make a life for themselves? All of our ancestors did the same at one point, unless you're a Native American.\n\nWe definitely need a better immigration policy going forward. No reasonable person denies that.\n\nBut for those law abiding immigrants that are already in the country, and have made their lives here, it is absolutely indefensible to do anything but give them citizenship.", "> What do you propose we call murderers, child molesters, and domestic abusers?\n\nMurderers, child molesters, and domestic abusers, respectively. ~~Or really just any terms that describe what they are.", "Moral authority is out of the window when you've had ample time to prevent this. ", "\"It's the law\" is not an argument. ", "People don't really know how it feels, joke all you want but to actually be in a position where you can be removed from your family just because of where you were born is terrifying and people live it everyday, from old to young. I grew up with that fear. You feel this country is your home because you were raised here but then at the same time you never feel truly feel \"safe\", all because your family just wanted a better future.. ", "Lack of empathy? Criminals who break the law especially for 30 years don’t deserve empathy. ", "This is what 65 million people voted for I guess.\nFucking shameful", "We make things too easy for non citizens. My parents moved to the US from Canada fifty years ago. Neither is a citizen. They're \"legal permanent residents\". I love my parents but five fucking decades is enough time to do citizenship paperwork. They say there is no reason to bother since voting is the only privilege they'd gain and they'd also be obligated to serve jury duty. The\nNo one should be allowed to live in a country for over half a century without becoming a citizen. If the paperwork is too much of a hassle for something as great as citizenship in the United States, then it is obvious they don't value the country at all.", "Everything is wrong with this. Enforcing the law here destroys a family and puts a larger burden on the U.S. for caring for the family he leaves behind. Everyone loses.", "Hahahaha you people are actually fucking insane if you think that having lax immigration laws are bad laws hahahahaha ", "It’s not because of where they’re sending him it’s because he has lived and made a life here and they’re separating his family from for no reason ", "So if he ever tried he would’ve just got deported whenever he tried? That’s fucked", "He's been living here longer than you. Douche", "He had 30 years to follow our laws to become a legal resident. The only ignorance is you assuming this has to do with Trump in any fashion. This is a law Trump has nothing to do with. Laws that have been in places for decades. Please lecture us on not following the laws...amaze me! \n\nHis responsibility (man being deported) was to become a legal resident. He chose not to. Now he and his family suffers due to his actions alone. I will always support our laws over feelings.\n\nAnd if you don't like these laws...well you can leave. Nothing keeping you here. But we all know you wont. So keep virtue signalling from that fake moral high ground. ", "White, black, brown, purple, it doesn't matter. If they are here illegally then send them back to their shithole homeland. ", "Right. If he doesn’t then “bon voyage” bitch. Lol", "Actually, I'm sure some might get off like desk jobs and the like but most government officials get off. Very hard to get off as a cop or firefighter. ", "Something doesn't add up, my fiancé was on DACA and we got married last year... We applied for married resident status and she got her green card after like 4 months, and will be a citizen in 3to 5 years", "and people answered it. He couldn't. Nobody could help him because of the laws in the US", ">I don't necessarily agree with deporting this man, but speaking in absolutes like that is extremely ignorant.\n\nTake a look in this thread and tell me with a straight face its not being brigaded by alt-right stooges.\n\nedit>>He said to the alt-right stooge.", "If your parents sneak you into Disney land without paying, you're not going to jail, but you are still getting kicked out. ", "Then why do so many have such difficulty attaining it?", "You know what they say about making an assumption...", "In the 30 years he’s been in the USA, why didn’t he try and become a citizen?", "That's exactly what you've done with your comments.", "People aren't illegal. Their presence is.", "Sweden and Germany are now turning into a nightmare because they have been stupid enough to let everyone in without looking twice.\n\nIf you illegaly cross a border you commit a crime.\nBad for him, but why should he get a citizenship because he was able to stay \"hidden\" for 30 years, while other people have to bring in all the necessary and unnecessary paperwork and so on.\n ", "So he comes to America because his parents want a better life for his family. He’s 10. Can’t control where his parents take him. He goes to school, makes friends, literally spends his formidable adolescent years in America. He turns 18, out from his parent’s guardianship and just says “you know what, these 8 years were cool and everything but I’m going back to where I came from because I need to do this legally.” No. That doesn’t happen. This is why DACA is so important. He’s as American as everyone else who pays taxes and works hard for his business and his family.", "I love the soccer guy juggling a bag of cash while wearing what would be a scientist glasses", "How the? What the? \n\nSeriously, I just can’t comprehend how the US system can consciously be such a-holes. \nI guess it’s like they say: common sense is not that common. \n\nThis is worse than that guy they tried to charge with “escaping” after he was released from jail 30 years early, and had then become church elder and employed 15 people. He was still “a threat to society”. ", "So him coming here when 10 and has no clue at 10 does not matter?", "What other country on earth lets you live there illegally for 30 years without repercussion?", "Any burglar is welcome into my home if they're gonna be helping me pay the bills for the next several decades. Oh and if they dont commit any crimes, beyond breaking and entering. Think thats just called a roommate.", "You spelled \"ICE deports illegal immigrant who violated immigration law\" wrong.", "Yes, FAIR is a biased source. They were labeled a hate group by the SPLC when they meet with leaders of a white nationalist Belgian group. They are very clearly am advocacy group. They make no bones about this in any of their own materials.\n\nMaking some facile equivalence between them and politifact won't hold water, no matter which Jennifer Lawrence gifs you use to back up your argument. Any evaluation of a claim by anyone that has the tiniest degree of ambiguity relies on assumptions. Politifact is very up front about not only what assumptions they make, but often how they arrive at them.", "lmao I was not being serious", "Because he broke the law? Are you saying that any person who breaks the law but have a family and kids are to be given a free pass?", "hahahahaha", "Ok, what are \"crimes\" then? If moving is a crime then we live in Absurdland. ", "Because at that point, you’re essentially rewarding someone for getting here illegally. Half of the people in my immediate family are from five different countries, Mexico included. It’s hard for me to feel sorry for someone coming here illegally as an adult. That said, I think immigration should only be slightly more difficult than obtaining a Costco membership.", "You definitely can adjust from a tourist visa if you have married a US citizen. You just have to prove that you didn’t come into the country with intent to marry.", ">Garcia's case is the latest example of immigrants who previously would have been allowed to remain in the U.S., but not now as the U.S. seeks to remove more immigrants. Garcia has no criminal record and pays taxes. He is barred from entering the US for at least 10 years.\n\nhttps://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2018/01/15/jorge-garcia-daca-deported-mexico-immigration/1033296001/", "\"Damn, those black people can't attend my school, restaurants, etc and do the same things I can. But the law's the law!\"\n\nRight?", "I guarantee you that a 10-year-old kid who gets brought here by his parents isn't scheming to game the system.", "You could explain it instead of being rude. I'm not being stubborn, I'm just legitimately not able to follow your reasoning.", "I'm not white...can you help me because my dad didn't save for college?", ">Do you want to live in a society where the letter of the law always trumps the spirit of it? \n\nYes, absolutely. Applying the law based on how sad somebody's story is will not end well at all. If you allow this guy to stay because he has a family or because of the amount of time he has been here then it will be unfair to every person currently trying to get into the US legally and every person that will deported for being here illegally. Where do you draw the line on deportation? How many years or how many kids, what is your hard line? ", "Probably in the hopes that the applicant will be dead before a decision is made.", "Ever heard of the Gang of Eight bill from 2013? The one that the Senate passed but that House Republicans refused to even put to a vote? That was a year before DACA.", "He was the one that made a family knowing very well he could be deported. Its his own fault. Learn to take responsibility", "Read his other comments. This dude is the equivalent of I can’t be racist because I have a black friend. ", "Also funny to hear people say they are proud to be [insert nationality of shithole country here] when they live in America. ", "If they’re dumb enough to come over here and start families as illegal immigrants, I wouldn’t put anything else past them.\n\nEdit: this guy is an adult male human being who made a decision knowing exactly what the consequences would be. I don’t feel bad for him. There are some 41 million legal immigrants living in the United States of America...a country of like 350 million. That’s a significant portion of the population. They did it. Why is it too hard?", "Trump cares about helping blacks who need jobs more than illegals ", "He had no route to citizenship", "Can you imagine, when you turned 18, having to leave home and leave your family, to go to a country you have little or no memory of? Mind you, 20 years ago you couldn't just google a new city to find jobs and housing. If you didn't have a lot of money, trying to pack up and move far away would be near impossible.", "Oops I mean visa waiver program. ", "So he shouldn't have let his parents take him into America? Is that what you're suggesting?", "God forbid we enforce the law\n", "Tbf, Mexico is pretty much a shithole, which is why I'm glad I'm out now. ", "Giving prosecutorial discretion to ICE will make the situation worse. ICE is a White nationalist institution, the raison d'etre of which is to keep minorities out of the country. ", "I wonder what the Statue of Liberty would say about this administration if it could speak.", "Here are Germany's [requirements](http://www.germany-visa.org/immigration-germany/) for immigration. \n\n> To be eligible to move to Germany, you must fulfill the following criteria:\n> \n> Prove financial stability\n> \n> Have health insurance.\n> \n> Have at least basic proficiency in German\n> \n> Standard Residence Permit\n> \n> European Union (EU) Blue Card\n> \n> Settlement Permit or Permanent Residence Permit.\n\nI don't understand how people are under the impression that having a border and immigration policies puts America outside of the norm.", "If you were in his position would you just up and leave to another country for years and come back all to make it \"legal\"? Not even mentioning leaving your wife and kids to do so. Get off your high horse and put yourself in his shoes before you talk.", "Very bold of you to say racism. What race is of the person you are calling a bigot, and where has he said that his race is superior?\nNow if you want to pick and choose which laws you think people should follow and which ones you don’t think people should, that’s on you. Get those laws changed that you don’t agree with. I know how long and difficult it is to get a free card first hand. But there is a process (not a very good one believe me, trying to set up interviews and sending in a shitload of emails, photos, texts, etc. sucks) for a reason. My belief is not that this person should not be able to come to America. I’ve always believed that we should have open borders but to do that we have to remove all welfare programs.\n\nIt’s funny that everyone gets up in arms when an American says that illegal immigrants should be deported saying why send them back to their horrible country with a corrupt government, poverty, crime, gangs, drugs, etc. but then when there president refers to said countries with corrupt governments, poverty, crime, gangs, drugs, etc as shitholes they act offended. If there countries were great what are many of them fleeing from? It doesn’t make sense.", "But your argument is that illegal activity needs to be help accountable right?", "That’s actually a lie. He counted illegals turned away at the border and allowed those deported to come back in. Quit defending corruption and nonsense ", "\"Oh no, not facts!!!!\"", "Who said the US is the only one? We're supposed to be better", "Their entire life is here. Theyve only known life in America. They are American citizens ", "il·le·gal\n\n/i(l)ˈlēɡəl/\n\nadjective\n\n1. contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.", "I'm sure neither of us have a better understanding about tax evasion than the people who were hired to research those companies' finances. They found tax evasion. They found tax fraud. I'm not even sure how you can deny that. What part about courts fining a company because of their tax evasion indicated that I have no idea what tax fraud is? The media is not spinning a court case's findings. HOW CAN YOU THINK THAT? Unless you believe the results of the cases were entirely fabricated? \n\nFirst it was \"show me the evidence\" and now it's \"no read a book,\" I'm sure that when I tell you I studied finance in school you'll say \"no but did you get your masters?\" I'm done with your crazy libertarian ass. ", " I can't speak for the person in the article, but I read stories from others where yes it is a topic on their mind, but it's a lower priority than your job or your children . There's very little beyond self-help and self study of the process . Could you imagine living in a situation where there is pressure and hatred against you just because of the way you look, or perhaps the way your last name sounds, living in constant fear that even asking for any help or starting the immigration process will bring bad attention on you ? ", "You get ann ITIN number from the IRS (tax agency) and they promise they won’t give your info to ICE (immigration agency).", "Hes not doing anything. Hes simply causing problems and stiring hate and fear like the piece of shit he is. How about you find better things to do in life than defend the piece of shit.", "They were going to bring Mongolians in.", "That’s sort of a silly thing to say. Because your family had a combination of luck/timing/certain skills we should look down on immigrants who didn’t have the same opportunity to get here via that route?", "Not easy in what way? Could he not go back to Mexico and start his application process?\n\nMexico is perfectly inhabitable and he would have no problem living there, right?", "I know you're being sarcastic, but this guy has definitely benefited from incentives just by being here (that he's been benefiting from for the past 30 years). Why else would it matter so much for him to stay/leave?", "So if he's permanently barred, how is he able to \"start\" (reapply, well actually apply for the first time since he allegedly never did?) in 10 years? Wouldn't \"permanently barred\" mean that he can never go back to the United States? ", "Then what would be the point of immigration laws?\n\nIf you cover case by case, the wait times would be just as long as a greencard. What would you do with the people waiting then? Deport or let them stay? Because if you deport, then that puts you in square 1, and if you let them stay, that's essentially a green light for massive illegal immigration.\n\nIf you only allow this man to stay, right now, then that sets a precedent. And then everyone gets to stay. Then how could you account for net negative and positive? And again, green light for massive illegal immigration.\n\nThere are no grey areas to immigrate for this. There is no extenuating circumstances like a war or being a political refugee. The only grey areas are the fact that his family cannot follow him, because his host country might not deem them legal.\n\nIf you think the US immigration laws are too strict, I implore you to research others. But such juxtaposition should only serve to demonstrate that relatively, the US laws are lax, not to distract from any actual problems with our laws.\n\nEDIT: I'd like to further discuss lax immigration. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for smooth transitions and making everyone's American Dreams come true, one at a time for all at a time. \n\nBut simply lax immigration is just bad. I'm all for making everyone happy, Americans or American immigrants. Massive immigrants bring a host of problems, which might be net positive for the immigrants but very negative for Americans. \n\nA proper system to absorb immigrants would increase the immigrants' positive utility as well as let Americans enjoy a net positive utility. Immigrants can contribute effectively to the economy, as raw labor force and later on, when their children obtain higher education, as professionals and expert service providers. \n\nI'd propose immigrant towns, not unlike iconic China towns. This would help their naturalization best, where employment, development, policies and government assistance can be effectively provided. Of course, there will either be incentives or laws to push immigrants to these cities. \n\nThis avoids a host of problems, such as crimes and discrimination, when immigrants are simply thrust into living among Americans en masse, like we've seen in Europe. This system allows immigrants to enjoy the prosperity and peacefulness of America, while acclimatizing themselves into our culture and keeping their own. Their contribution to the economy will be felt clearly, and every Americans benefit from that.\n\nOf course, this system isn't perfect, because immigrant towns are already a form of discrimination. But we have to avoid the pitfall of political correctness and see reality for what it is. No matter how much you pride yourself on tolerating and understanding, your neighbor might not, and even you yourself might find certain customs unappealing. \n\nI very much support this model. America is as vast as she is rich. Immigration is a cultural trait of ours. It's a cherry on top if we can embrace this trait and make it an advantage, to stay competitive with the rest of the world, one American dream at a time.", "Yes. Entering this country illegally. Good riddance ", "And he's had 20 years to work on rectifying it.", "X2", "I agree with every single thing you said in that comment. No one should have to go through this system easier than the other. But from what I've gathered from this conversation is how much of an asshole that guy is just because he came to this country in hopes of better opportunities. You don't know who that man is at all. You also don't know if he even applied for citizenship or not. I'm also not going to lie and say he did what was right. But you don't understand that man the same way I understand that man. When I see that person, I'm reminded of my father and how hard he fought for me to have a better future.\n\nI don't want you to feel pity for the man. I just want you to have an open mind and understand the situation he's in. Thank you for the friendly debate :)", "Was not physically possible for him to do so at any time during those 30 years.", "Any criminal record?\n\nCertainly there are exceptions to the law that most of us would find problematic.. however, most illegal aliens don't have the same circumstances as this guy.\n\nAnyone with felonies on their record who is an illegal alien should be deported and denied re entry, though.", "Good he’s illegal ", "Lots of brigading happening lately ", "https://imgur.com/a/kbZB1", "Canada is more strict than the US about visiting and immigration. Since the two systems are essentially one he will get flagged at the border entering Canada. Ive been refused entry 3 times with a US passport and I live 20 min away. They take my phone, search my computer and will charge you with a crime if you refuse to give your pin. They are cunts. ", "Does he pay taxes?", "We all break laws, even if it's as mild as speeding because we're in a hurry to get somewhere. If every law were punished to its full extent each and every one of us would be fucking miserable. Thankfully that's not how society works.", "Yeah sad he has to go back to it now", "So what's your solution? Let em stay? I hope ICE deports you also. I have to obey the law but you don't?", "Because the US would ban him from entering because he resided in the US illegally. There are time limits, like... 6 months could be a vacation. 6 months to 2 years is X amount of years from coming back etc. I don't know if those are the exact numbers but that's the idea of it. They don't allow you to come back because if you stayed illegally, what's to say this time you won't. It's not so much that people who are eligible for DACA can't leave and apply elsewhere, it's that they can't come back because once they leave the country the ban in enacted.", "I'd agree and believe that's probably a very reasonable measure for how progressive a tax should be, by tying it to the proportion of wealth that same group controls.", "How do you know this guy is a hard worker? Go back to your virtue signaling BS and acting like a dumbass. Your embarrassing yourself with ever comment here. ", "So if someone gets away with it for 30 years we should reward them??", "So he had 30 years to become a legal citizen and failed to do so, yet reaped the benefits paid for by Americans for decades.", "So you would leave your wife and children for a decade to get legalized?", "Reddit (the left) hates when laws are enforced.", "This is the saddest thing I've heard in a while. Especially considering the new to me knowledge from many of the commentators.", "On both sides of the coin racism exists. Don't act a fool and say that minorities can't be racist. ", "There is. He doesn't belong unless he comes here legally. If he's been here for thirty years without any trouble, I'd love to have him and I'm sure no one would complain but he did do it illegally. ", "How much of the total income do they bring in?", "He shouldn't be, I keep hearing that being a minority isn't that bad at all, right? Apparently they all get welfare and don't have to pay taxes.", "Against what? Illegal immigrant's children get government assistance? I'm sorry but I have no trouble with children within the USA having assistance regardless of status, how much shit taxpayer money gets tossed around just funding pork barrel garbage is astounding. Your outrage should be directed at that if your truly a fiscal mother fucking hawk", "Name a country where I can go live for years without being a citizen and then expect to be able to stay. ", "It was law at one point to own slaves. So yes empathy > law\n\nAka, something being law doesn't inherently make it moral or right.", "I DON'T FUCKING CARE ABOUT LAWS! These are ordinary people and I don't care where they are from, I will aid them regardless ", "Why hasn’t he become a citizen yet? Serious question. \n\nMy sister-in-law became a citizen within 5 years of moving here from India. ", ">AY DIOS MIO I A GOOD HIJO! What about my familiy!\n\nCome in legally or dont come at all. Fuckers should get the bullet if we catch them again, see how long it takes Mexico and Mexicans to get their act together if we build the wall out of corpses.", "If the law were upheld 30 years ago, it wouldn't be painful to uphold it now. And if you don't uphold it now, you're just encouraging more parents to do the same thing tomorrow, and wind up with 10 more heart-brake stories just like this 30 years from now.\n\nYou have to start sometime. It won't get better until you start. Just because it will be painful doesn't mean you shy away from it.", "So this dude had ~22 adult years to become a citizen and instead continued to live here ILLEGALLY. What did he think would be the eventual outcome of being an illegal alien?", "He came into the country illegally, served in the military. ", "After 30 years, why hasn’t he managed to get his citizenship?", "Safe from what?", "How many times you drink alcohol before 21? \n\nSmoke a joint? \n\nSpeed? ", "They could just not deport him and it wouldn't cost you or me a thing. It would probably cost us less money if the father could remain to provide for his family. On the other hand, your degree provides no value to anyone and isn't worth the cost. ", "My Lord and who now? ", "They impeached him for lying in a civil lawsuit. What do you think they would've done if he'd vetoed an anti-immigration bill?", "> But if there are no longer resources appropriate outside of Disneyland, nor can the child seek the parents for restitution for their error, the park would be doing direct harm to the child\n\nI mean, shouldn't you tell me? You're the one making the argument. I'm just telling you why it sucks. You told me you never mentioned taxation directly in Disneyland, ie America.. because it doesn't effect relief efforts in the origional home of those who snuck in. In this instance, we're talking about Mexico. America gives quite a bit of money to mexico for relief, thus said taxation in Disneyland ultimately effects relief efforts in Mexico, despite the fact your loaded statement implied otherwise. This is why your argument sucks.", "> The way a country and a theme park should operate are not the same, and saying that \"well Disneyland is owned and they can kick out who they want so why can't the USA do that\" doesn't make sense.\n\nWhy doesn't it make sense? Are we a sovereign nation or are we just \"imaginary lines on a map\"? if the latter, then why have borders at all?\n\nThe rights you mention in the second paragraph only apply to citizens of the country (try buying a gun with only a green card for ID, for instance). Non-citizens aren't even Constitutionally entitled to due process, though we generally grant them such anyway. i will partially grant that there are some restrictions on what we can do, just as Disneyland can't legally murder the people that sneak into their park, the US can't legally murder people that sneak into the country. But both can deport them.\n\nThere may be some logic in reforming immigration laws, but in the meantime, everyone who crosses the border illegally is putting themselves at risk. To take that risk on yourself is one thing, but to do that to a child is monstrously cruel and they deserve to lose their children. As I said earlier, treat this man like the victim of human trafficking that he is, and he gets to stay. I have no sympathy for people who abuse children, though. ", "Sad yes, but he is here illegally. ", "So, in that 30 years he had time to meet woman, get employment, have a family... But he never bothered to legalize himself?\n\nHe's the one who should be to blame for being so careless to risk putting his family in such a dire situation.", "Regardless, should he be the one paying the price for his parents' decisions?", "Damn, shouldn't break the law. ", "If they weren't they will now", "The kids aren’t returning to Mexico; they were never from Mexico. They lived here their entire lives. ", "What do you mean?\n", "He could have adjusted status years ago. He didn’t. \n\nThere are millions of people around the world waiting to come here legally. They shouldn’t have to wait because of people who just skip across the border. ", "> The citizenship law makes it nigh impossible to become a citizen from within the US if you're from an undesirable country.\n\nSo in other words if you don't support the citizenry of all illegal immigrants you're racist? Got it. ", "What I meant is that I would of been deported as well 17 years ago had my dad brought me here illegally and gotten caught. Yes, trump has said a lot of awful about us (Mexicans) that I don't like, but deportation has been around for a while now. ", "so basically even if he did try to become a citizen dude was fucked? i feel like there should be an easy solution to something like this. because if you're a child and unaware you're here illegally you're getting royally fucked over and that's not cool.", "The problem is that our system currently doesn't reward voting for who you actually want or anything like ranked voting. You can't do what you described.", "Downvotes only tell me I'm right. Plus rightwing subs are well documented for brigading the defaults so I'm not surprised nor does it really matter because right wing neckbeards on the internet will not sway the direction in which the world moves.", "Actually, I don't think I can make that argument about any law. Try it. Try applying this same situation, where a child is forced into a situation, where any of this makes sense outside of this particular situation.", "What would your parents do to escape violence and poverty? Probably something risky and drastic.", "OP has an agenda to push.", "Not necessarily.\n\nhttp://www.cnn.com/2017/02/24/politics/undocumented-immigrants-not-necessarily-criminal/index.html", "Good post. If we had a more efficient system to catch illegals, we could have nabbed him at the border or as a child. Obviously, we need to focus on making our enforcement much more efficient. ", "Sales tax, unclaimed income tax, property tax if they own a home under his wife's name.", "if you are in the U.S. for I believe over 5 years, can't you apply for a green card which can then lead to your citizenship?", "Well, if his kids are Americans, they have the right to ask for their father once the oldest is over 21.", "^ Username says it all folks. Proud and stupid.", "So if he couldn’t qualify for DACA would he still have been deported under the Obama administration? \n\nEdit: and if not, what was protecting him before?", "That can actually be more of a problem, depending the state. If it's proved he was here illegally for any number of years before the marriage the government will use every reason to not just halt his legal paperwork but then use the proof of him being a law abiding citizen while illegal against him.\n\n\nSource: tried to keep someone from bein extradited. Me saying he was a fantastic worker and an asset to his community worked against him. (NYC)", "What are we doing America?", "He's a Mexican citizen, you are 100% wrong in every legal way.", "You can get a passport from a Mexican Consulate in the US. ", "This has to be one of the dumbest analogies ive ever seen. To trivialize the matter as if it were a day trip to disneyland... is this the bullshit conservative media has been feeding you?", "It’s ok to kick people out of a country if they entered illegally. Only community on reddit that believes that. ", "His family fucked him over not America ", "Damn that's awful. Did not know. Thank you for better understanding. I was born in the US and know nothing about what goes into becoming a citizen. ", "Did you read the other person's comment or did you also just come up with a Disney Land example. Either way, Disney Land and the USA are totally different things, and I don't see why the rules that apply to one should apply to the other. ", "This is reddit, you can never be sure lol", "Oh ok fuck that guy ", "Either his fault for not getting documented or his family’s fault for not telling him he is undocumented", "You are conflating wealth with income. Big difference. ", "It took my cousin less than two weeks after leaving the country to get his green card he had been in DACA and married for at least 2 years though.", "Yes because those two things are comparable, I'm not saying the law is necessarily completely fair, but it is still the law, someone who's lived in a country for 30 years with no criminal record should be allowed to stay, however that's not the current case,", "Please help me understand what you mean by refunds and how the 6% was calculated. It doesn't seem to add up in my head.\n", "I never said open citizenship. If someone wants to come here and work and pay taxes then why the fuck are we stopping them? The normal rules for applying for citizenship still apply, and you aren't eligible for welfare benefits unless you're a citizen. ", "Ah yeah, makes total sense. He should've reached adulthood and just packed up his entire life in the country where he grew up, right? And he should move to venture on his own into a country that he hasn't called home since he was a young child, right?\n\nThat sound like a reasonable choice to you?", "Schools are paid for through local taxes which illegal immigrants absolutely pay.", "This comment needs more attention. Can someone who may know the family relay this to them?", "Unless I am gravely mistaken, Republicans are currently in control of Congress. The Democrats were voted out due in part to voter dissatisfaction so, if the majority want something changed shouldn't they have an expectation of fulfilment from the people currently elected to represent them? Or are you intending to imply only Democrats are held accountable for their actions and activities?", "Not if the people lived under that law and knew the consequences. People changed jt obviously in future societies. Just because he was caught doesn't make it cruel to uphold a law. ", "(((the law is the law))) amirite?", "> a universal basic income.\n\nThis is not socialism. Its a cop-out to continue to allow the 1% to hoard all the capital and wealth, while only trickling down enough to keep the poor from starving. Its an attempt to prevent an overthrow and the dissolution of capitalism. Stale bread left at the door to the bakery to prevent the hungry from breaking in.\n\nHe had nothing to do (afaik) with immigration laws.\n\nAND disabling immigration laws has nothing to do with socialism.", "Dude, the guy arrived here when he was 10 without his choosing. It's interesting that you think a child has to be considered a criminal for the rest of his life for something someone else did. \n\nIf you seriously believe that I recommend you seek some therapy, urgently.", "Since you seem sincere, I’ll give a try to explaining the Trump hate. 1st, you and OPs above are right, all nations have a right to impose their own immigration laws and even standards/requirements. 2nd, you’re also right in that deportations have happened during all administrations. Obama’s administration deported in large numbers. The KEY difference with Trump is that Obama’s administration truly aimed their focus on deporting people with criminal backgrounds. They searched for them as a priority and spent their efforts in deporting people who they deemed posed a danger (based on their record). They used administrative discretion in the cases when people without a record were caught. They didn’t give them papers or a path towards legalization, but they gave them conditional relief from deportation when they believed they had DEEP roots in the community and a record of being good citizens. ON THE OTHER HAND, Trump and his administration are doing a campaign of deportations on a huge scale and they are not just going after the people with a record, even though that’s what they said they would do. \n\nIn my opinion, (which I think is supported by figures) they are employing scare tactics and being as punitive and petty as they can. For example, they are really going after people in states/cities that have designated themselves as sanctuary cities (another topic which bears explanation as there is so much misconception as to what that entails=or does not mean you get services and papers, it just means the state govt/don’t act like immigration agents and don’t share information with immigration unless it’s required by law). Those cities see raids often, raids at Work places, raids at restaurants, raids at apartment buildings, outside of elementary school, etcetera. People with spotless records and decades in the states are being deported daily. That, combined with the rhetoric of Trump and company is what makes a difference. Trump is not just following the law, he followed by the law in the most heartless , calculated, and petty way he can. ", "Well... you had at least 20yrs to figure it out. It sucks I know but.... ", "IIRC it's in the way that they're taxed as well. Certain incomes are taxed more heavily (income) while others are taxed less (investments) and richer people tend to have more income from other sources like investments. But this could all be total bullshit. ", "Yup", "Not true at all. The reality is that the laws are not being updated to fit with modern times due to partisan politicking. Arguing that someone who has spent 30 years here, has a life, wife, and kids, who is a functioning and contributing member of society, more so than most conservatives are, doesn’t deserve to be here because of a decision made by his parents is the definition of feels over reals. \n\nRealistically with a functioning immigration system like ones used in the rest of the world he would’ve been granted citizenship based on marriage. ", "Fuck off. These are criminals. Literally every child is affected by the decisions their parents make that doesn't mean we should make exceptions for these specific cases.", "America!!! Lol ", "Because if you spend time illegally in the states then the moment you leave, you have a ban that lasts for a certain number of years depending on how long you were illegally present. Whether you leave voluntarily or not. ", "Fuck it, I'll give him a ride.", "Legal immigrant here. I don't want illegal immigrants to be deported. \n\nIt's sad that you think our (legal immigrants') morality is equivalent to the White nationalist anti-immigration nativist groups. ", "Sociopathic... Yah... that's it.\n\nWell, lets send busses/trains/planes to get all the poor kids from everywhere and bring them to america. Parents as well! That will solve world poverty for SURE!\n\nTo not do so is sociopathic.\n\n\nBtw how many refugees or illegals do you house? feed? ", "He would have been deported. Came here when 10 so not all that knowing what was happening at the time. Kind of hard by the time you are an adult and have a clue to leave the only thing you have known.", "Not even Trump wants Trump 2020.", "Says the account with 500 combined karma.", "The presidential salary is $400,000 a year. I'm not sure if DJT needs our tax money to go golfing.", "That's not what I said and doesn't apply to this at all. You quoted a cry for censorship and strict enforcement of laws in the name of protecting children.\n\nIronically I feel that applies more to your irrational aversion towards people who are in this country illegally. \n\nYea they broke one of our arbitrary rules that we have in place, but in this case it makes absolutely zero fucking sense to kick this person out. \n\n>\"But we have to!! Won't anyone think of our borders and the slippery slope of having even MORE illegals if we don't destroy every illegal's life that we find??\"", "That's just so fucking wrong. We need a hefty dose of common sense.", "What a sad reality ", "And you definitely don’t get it from doing nothing either. ", "TIL that just because something is law makes it ethical. ", "The appeal to \"the law is the law\" and that is that is worrisome to me. To engage in your selfish motives, would you prefer to pay child support for the rest the legal civilian family in order to deport this man , who may be the bread winner?", "This case has nothing to do with what MLK stood for and you know it. Stop being intellectually dishonest. \n\nAnd FIY, MLK was against illegal immigration because it hurts the black community more than any other group in the US. Fact. ", "\\> 1488 in username\n\nNot surprising", "Last time any major changes were made to the immigration laws aside from minor tweaks here and there was 1965, 53 years ago.", "He's being a bit dishonest from what I see (I looked it up considering the extremely biased source he provided), these mothers, if the article is correct, are sounding like rich chinese women that want to have a child with the US nationality and then bring them back in China. Why I'm not sure, but considering the amount they pay and how niche that business seems to be, I'm not convinced it's a \"huge, huge problem\".", "> Developed countried dont have to pay $4,000 to have a baby\n\nAnd yet, people from those countries are coming here to have a baby.", "Thanks :) I was thinking he must have broken a law recently that alerted the authorities to him.\nHe wasn't even in control of the 'crime' he committed!", "So they did the job they are paid for?", "What's interesting is that, in the US, it's not treated as much of an \"illegal\" act, but more of a regulatory offense. They don't have many of the rights afforded to criminal defendants, there's no \"innocent until proven guilty\", they have an affirmative need to prove they can stay. There's not a culpability requirement as well, meaning that children who otherwise would be unable to commit a crime may still be caught up in it. \n\nIt's for these reasons the laws need to change, it's fundamentally unfair for children who didn't know what was happening to be blamed for an act of their parents. ", "You're making a lot of assumptions, no?", "That's from a lottery though. There's different types of visas to apply for depending on the situation.", "His parents probably didn't have many attractive options. Not everyone has the luxury of thinking 30 years ahead when they are fleeing poverty and violence.", "I still believe that things have to be done the way they are established. If I was a legal mexican inmigrant living in the US I'd be pissed that they made me go through a hard process to become something I could've just become without doing anything. This may sound harsh, but it isn't really, it's just being coherent.", "Because it goes against everything MLK worked for, and gave his life for. MLK Day represents so much about the equal treatment of others, and this shows so much about how we are not all treated the same.", "> you think that you're somehow more deserving to be in America than they are but you aren't\n\nif he was born there, yes he is genius\n\n", "This is an American that is being deported. He was raised and educated here. Why are we deporting a national asset.", "I think you may have missed my point. Saying that all nations have laws regulating immigration does not necessarily lead to the conclusion that these laws are just. Is it not possible that all countries have unjust laws when it comes to immigration? \n\nAlso borders and slavery may be more related than you think. Corporations use borders to maintain a pool of cheap labor as their home countries implement worker protection laws. Many people traveling across borders are trying to rise out of the impoverishment of their countries. Jobs in their home countries do not pay a living wage; it's a poverty trap that allows multinational corporations to have a constant supply of cheap labor. It's not difficult to make the argument that US corporations utilize labor akin to slavery overseas. So yes, your belief in the validity of borders does, in a way, empower conditions of enslavement. Are you sure that you stand by your statement that our enforcement of immigration laws are just, merely because they are laws?", "And this is why the US deserves a NK nuclear weapon over DC.", "Please. This guy has known what was coming since he was found out in 2009. Remind me again who was President then?", "[More people getting deported on their graduation day](https://i.redd.it/dnaizxw3f6a01.jpg)", "So these old politicians are letting people in so they can eventually have kids who will in 18 years be of age to vote which are likely to vote for somebody other than them because they are dead by the time these kids can vote?\n\nOr maybe just maybe get this, they think that the American dream exists and we shouldn't walk off our country from people who want to have a better life", "So you expect this guy to drop everything, leave his family, and move to another country on his own at 18? Just so he can go through a long, god awful immigration process? Are you fucking serious? \n\n>Yes, because it's sooo heartless to have laws and follow them. If anyone ever commits a crime against you, I hope you remember what you said here, that it's \"Sooo heartless to enforce laws\".\n\nIt's not heartless to enforce any law, it's heartless to separate families to enforce bad/unjust laws. Why is this so hard for you to get? Is justice a confusing concept to you? It must be. \n\n>Also, btw, America is one of the most relax countries on immigration.\n\nAlso, btw, this is completely false. ", "So you think that requiring people to immigrate legally, like every other country in the world, is the same as racial discrimination?", "Bye", "Haha this is real? Screen Shot! No one is going to believe that someone really said this. News Flash (you're a teenager -profile checks out) America has been growing from day one, we have had laws from day one. ", "Poor guy\n", "How are they without a husband and father? Can't they join him in Mexico?", "The problem lies with the inaction of congress for decades. This issue should have been resolved long ago. We also do not have the whole story here. \n\nDACA plus border security is agreed upon in principle by both parties. It’s insane that they can’t get it done.", "According to the IRS:\n\nUnder the new policy: The IRS will deactivate an ITIN that has not been used on at least one tax return in the past five years. Any ITIN will remain in effect as long as a taxpayer continues to file U.S. tax returns. This includes ITINs issued after Jan. 1, 2013.\n\nSo he could have made one trip in order to get the passport he needed. We don't know the full story, but I can tell you that I personally know of non citizens who pay taxes using ITINs. ", "Its not the fault of anybchild when their parents commit crimes, yet we throw them in jail anyway.\n\nHow is this any different?", "For me it signifies how a once hopeful and progressively inspired nation seems to have forgotten the lessons that guy taught", "Yes Edit: https://www.rt.com/usa/388504-obama-deportation-families-ice/amp/", "This is some fucked up shit. We’ve lost our humanity, if we ever even had it. ", "The people that make more money than me doing the things I don't understand they do!", "Honest question; What would happen if an American (US) did this in Canada? My impression is that he wouldn't last 30 years illegally there.", "> massive population\n\n>800,000\n\nGimme a break.\n\nHere's the solution. Those \"kids\" are all married and grown up now. They're integrated into society. Grant them a path to citizenship.\n\nMeanwhile, deport the families with their children. Don't destroy families. Don't be evil. It's that simple.\n\nNow, did I leave something out? Is this a perfect solution? Of course not.\n\nWant to stop illegals from coming here? Help Mexico with their drug cartel problem and make drugs legal across the board. Help them out financially so they are a country people don't want to flee from. Neighbors help each other. A little compassion is all I ask.", "My ex’s friend had $20k in the bank that the IRS seized until he could show where the income came from (he worked under the table). So that’s just gone.", "> So if you got brought here by your parents illegally it's literally impossible to remain at home and become a citizen?\n\nNot unless you first leave the country for ten years.\n\nSome exceptions may apply for really crazy hardship cases.", "After he got married he should have started looking into getting citizenship...then maybe after his first child....then maybe after his second child he could have looked nto citizenship...he can bring his family with him, he let them down it’s his fault.", "If Jorge or anyone who know him read this, not all Americans think this way. I am sorry you were forced to leave your home and your family. I hope everything is resolved soon. Good luck. ", "> Absolutely not true. From my personal experience, any US visa is a pain in the ass to obtain compared to Canada, Australia\n\nVisa maybe, I wouldn't know. It probably depends on where you are coming from... but that's not what we are talking about. Visa's are temporary.\n\nAs for permanent residency, using your examples, Canada and Australia BOTH have merit/point-based immigration systems. So sure if you have no criminal history, a Ph.D., and speak English+French fluently, etc. getting into some place like Canada permanently may be more expedient than the USA because they prioritize their applicant pool! However that's not exactly the same demographic that is eagerly hoofing it across the border in the middle of the night. sooo it's really kind of an unfair comparison.... Comparing apple's to apple's it is MUCH harder for your average person to obtain permanent residency in other(economically) comparable countries.\n\nTL;DR US immigration standards (i.e. practically none) ARE very lax compared to other developed countries. The reason it takes a long time is because there is an absurd backlog.\n", "Yep, it's not their department.", "People uproot their lives and stay in a foreign country for years while they wait desperately for a terrible system to enable them to return to their home for fun?", "Ok I guess. No need to bring up guns and such. It's not like I don't have a couple myself. Anyways all jokes aside, when can I start? I also shovel snow petty good too and can be there in an Instant. ", "Because his kids and wife are Americans born and raised here. ", "Wow that is terrible and pretty backwards. Thank you. I feel much more compassionate now. ", "Some would say those criminals on wallstreet are \"hard working family men\" while the illegals are the criminals. And you'd both be right.\n\n\n\nSo how about we deport illegals and punish wall street criminals?\n\n\n\n\nEdit: just to clarify, I'm not equating the two beyond both being illegal acts, I get that the wall street one is a lot worse", "Good, fuck DACA. HE HAD 20 YEARS TO BECOME A CITIZEN!", "Hmm, maybe the US and Canada should strike up a deal where all our illegal immigrants are deported up north instead. I mean, I figure it's a win-win since the Canadians seem to be down too.", "Of course you are. The party of \"Fuck you, I got mine.\"\n\n", "That's fucking terrible. I feel so bad for him and his family. Who cares though, right? Just send him back to whichever shithole country I guess. This shit gets me fired up.", "...okay? It's shitty but we can't make exceptions to the rules based on circumstances or else everyone will expect the same. Also it being MLK Jr. day is irrelevant, so I don't get that part. ", "If injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, then every single consumer in western society is a threat to justice. Ever wonder where all that cheap crap you buy at Target comes from? The “injustices” happening in sweat shops in India and China, mining operations in Africa and a whole list of products made with child labor / slave labor. \n\nI never understood why so many Americans think they are fighting for oppressed peoples while they continue to buy iPhones and clothes made in deplorable conditions.", "Did you read the article?", "but he is brown you racist", "Yeah, y'all are welcoming them with open arms \n\nhttp://www.businessinsider.com/canada-to-salvadorans-who-lost-protected-status-in-us-dont-head-north-2018-1", "30 years and can't apply? Out. ", "Nobody is taking his home or his family, he is just not allowed to permanently stay in a country where he never was granted citizenship. On what basis do you believe that this man should be granted citizenship? ", "Legal immigrant here. I don't want this man or other illegals to be deported.\n\nJust to make it clear, not all of us legal immigrants are disgusting, heartless pieces of shit like /u/hogshead1218. ", "But you also can't make an exception for someone purely because they have a family, he's been breaking the law for 30 years no matter what way you look at it", "/u/TooShiftyForYou owns the front page.", "[Why trump won](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/0d/3f/10/0d3f1045faef03fea9ad12df3f838a42--april-fools-day-funny-comments.jpg)", "No. It doesn't. He didn't take steps to become legal as an adult. Don't try playing the victim card. Age doesn't matter.", "Don’t tourist Visa take a while? Man would probably lose his job by then , especially if he’s the breadwinner for the household. ", "[this subreddit ](https://m.imgur.com/r/topnotchshitposting/UpRJ03X)", "They should all go to mexico with him! It's not like it's a shithole or anything, right?", "Not if she’s hot", "More like how do you manage to get married and live there 30 years AS an illegal. I think it's pretty obvious that he is still an illegal immigrant, managing to stay in a country as an illegal shouldn't be rewarded with some automatic citizenship. ", "I read very well. Middle finger to the other people meaning you care what the other people FEEL about the law. \n\nYou don't explain well if that's not what you meant. ", "Agree. But why? Is it real Americans? Or is bots and such to stir up shit? It is really hard to understand.", "We need to stop legal and illegal immigration no matter what.", "I really do feel sorry for this guy, but if you want to be angry with someone, be angry at Mr. Garcia's parents who brought him in illegally 30 years ago. Too many people get caught up in emotionally-charged photographs and stop seeing the bigger picture.\n\nDon't give me the rhetoric about \"tired/sick/poor\", because the United States has serious issues with homeless numbers and with undiagnosed mental illness. This country is hurting from the inside and can't (won't) take care of itself properly, what makes anyone think that the US is healthy enough to help people from other countries?", "True, just pointing out that a SSN isn't mandatory. The IRS doesn't care about legal status they just want their money and surprisingly many illegals WANT to pay their taxes.", "You are right that he should have left the country and applied for immigration. The earlier the better so when he was 10\n\nThe only thing illegal about him is that he stayed in the US when he shouldn't have and the thing about punishments is that sometimes a Judge or a panel of your peers can hear your case and decide if there should be punishment and what it is.", "Would it be easier to try applying to live in Canada and move to Toronto?", "He had a good run", "> He's saying that his parents shouldn't have broken the law in the first place by coming here illegally. \n\nOK. Punish them.\n\n>Why didn't they apply for a green card before they decided to break the law and ruin their sons future by illegally entering the United States?\n\n[IDK, maybe because they couldn't?](http://static.openlawlab.com/uploads/2011/10/IMmigration-Law-Comic-Terry-Colon-Reason.jpg) <- Not a lot of ways of going about it, all take 6-28 years.\n\n>It's not the obligation of the American citizen to foot the bill for other people's life choices. \n\nHe was paying taxes and doing work.[[1]](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2018/01/15/jorge-garcia-daca-deported-mexico-immigration/1033296001/) He was footing OUR bill. There is no economic reason for kicking this person out. Try a different rational. ", "Your parents must be horrified they produced such a stupid child. \n\nI was considering broaching the 10th Amendment but there is no way in hell you'd be able to grasp that.", "My Social Security isn't even enough to pay for an apartment, because I'm a divorced woman born in the 1940's. So YAY, let's give it to millions of illegals. ", "Bruh we can absolutely support much higher percentages of immigrants. ", "30 years and he never applied for citizenship?", "Well good thing he was in the US, because in most European countries his kids wouldn't be recognized as citizens either and deported with him", "Now this is a perfect example of a \"piece of shit\" racist.", "They could all go back together, I mean Mexico isn't that bad.", "You actually still need to leave. Can't apply for legal status when you entered the country illegally without leaving first. Plus, this man was in the cpuntry illegally for more than one consecutive year, so he is subject to a 10 year bar on re-entering.", "Yeah I mean, i'm not complaining. I took a risk and it's the price I have to pay for it. I've come to accept that. Canada is not a bad place to be at all. Nobody to blame but myself. Just feel like venting is all. ", "It was not physically possible for him to apply at any point during those 30 years.", ">illegal\n\n>noun\n\n>Definition of illegal\n\n>sometimes disparaging + offensive\n\n>a person who enters or lives in a country without the documentation required for legal entry or residence\n\nhttps://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illegal\n", "Of course you are. The party of \"Fuck you, I got mine.\"\n\n", "I wonder if you feel the same way about, say, music or movie piracy?", "yes this is sad and all, but this guy knew for 30 years that he was essentially an outlaw.\n\nPeople go to jail for life or close to for \"crimes\" they get caught up in that may seem petty with undeserving sentences. \n\nIf I was evading taxes for 30 years, and my reckoning came, I wouldn't be surprised or expect any kind of empathy even if I was married with 4+ kids. This guy did something similar, whether you agree with the law or not. He was too old for DACA, and took a chance.\n\nThe fact is, this guy is free to go and live his life, despite evading the law for 30 years. He isn't in jail, and his family is free to make plans to move in with him in another country. Yes it's hard, yes he and his kids have lived their whole lives in America, but life is hard and he & his family are still free.\n\nWant to get upset for people? Look at those locked up for life for marijuana possession. They don't get to go to another country, they go to jail.", "was assuming you're a fan of Trump based on the comment, potentially a poor assumption", "I never said they were open. You're an angry little elf.", "Not to be that guy, but the fact that MLK day is being celebrated and what MLK and other black Americans had to (and still do) deal with takes way from the \"used to be a shining star\". I'm sorry, but the US is now the most liberal and fair it's ever been and it's still far behind a lot of Europe, I think you might be romanticising history. ", "> Sure we need to draw the line somewhere\n\nHere, we draw the line here. It's drawn. We are already at this point. ", "What did this guy do to you to make you so angry?", "Here in lies the problem with your argument: This man came over when he was 10, against his will, likely barely remembers what his home country is like, probably has no real connections to it, and we're forcing him to go back to a country he not only doesn't recognize, but is certifiably dangerous. And your solution is, \"why don't we just send all of them to this dangerous place they do not know.\"\n\nFor 30 years, in every sense besides documentation, this man is an American. He's worked, bled, learned, and wed in this country and likely has friends and (obviously) family here. \n\nThe Democrat's position on this is to find a pathway to citizenship for such people while shoring up our borders. Obama tried in 2012 with the support of Marco Rubio but Rubio then balked on his own bill when pressured by the GOP.\n\nThe Republican's stance on this is to round up everyone and send them back to places they do not recognize and tell them, \"good luck, get lost.\" \n\nOne party has compassion and a logical solution for a 21st century nation.\n\nThe other wants a Trail of Tears 2.0. \n\nAmerica needs to DO BETTER. It needs to BE BETTER than this. I'm sick of racist idiots running my country into the ground. ", "> I never said Trump banned it. I said the CDC banned it because they knew their reports would be ignored if it included those words.\n> \n> They knew Republicans would get upset if they saw the word \"Science-Based\". So they are not going to include them anymore.\n\n", ">What good does this do to anyone?\n\nIt serves as an example to others that would break our laws and enter the country illegally. They're hoping for amnesty. If we show them there won't be one they might try immigrating legally.", "It’s not a terrible idea. Doesn’t have to be a wall though. Just more patrols and stricter rules. Get after the employers that hire, maybe change the rules about children born in country, etc. de-incentivize it a bit and make it tough....at the same time just legalizing the people here because even if you don’t have a heart about that stuff it’s just too big a job to solve at this point. And you run in to problems like this guy who, yes...is here illegally but has been here so long that this is really his home. We shouldn’t encourage it but what’s done is done.", "I'm an immigration paralegal, soon to be an immigration lawyer...if I pass the Bar, which is a horrible beast of a thing. You know your issues better than me, though, I was just wondering because I was confused by your statement.\n\nNo, she can definitely apply for marriage-based AOS, even if she overstayed the visa. There would be absolutely no need to return—any immigration lawyer would advise against it, since it would add unnecessary complexity to the situation. If she were the sister of a US Citizen, or maybe a married child of a US Citizen, it would be a different story, but there are exceptions for immediate family members. It's part of the US's policy of family reintegration.\n\nI understand your concern. They don't approve all marriage-based applications, but the many I've processed have been approved. There's no quota for marriage based applications, but there are quotas for H-1Bs (if that's what you're talking about). ", "although the hope would be that DACA alleviated the \"inherited sins\" issue within immigration. In this case at least, that hasn't worked unfortunately.", "> For example, it may be \"accurate\" that the Richest 1% pay 40% of all federal income taxes...but if you conveniently leave out that the refund they get after paying said taxes makes the amount they pay actually 6% it makes a difference.\n\nWTF? No one is calculating pre-deduction tax rates on a nationwide level. The numbers come from the IRS and are simply a distribution based on taxes paid vs. income.\n\nThe 40% number is accurate and no one with any knowledge of the topic disputes it.\n", "Those cases are extremely rare to be approved and lawyers that specialize in asylum cases are *extremely* expensive. Anyways, if she did, in fact, actually need to seek asylum I'm glad it worked out for the both of you.", "So would having more legal immigrants in lieu of illegal immigrants help or hinder these numbers?", "Because we're actually able to think and don't run on nothing but fucking emotion like a child.", "> Hypothetical question: Could a law ever be unjust?\n\nSure, yeah. But who gets to make that decision? ICE immigration officers? Unfortunately not. Fixing unjust laws is down to Congress, and to some extent the Supreme Court in interpretation. The executive branch of government's job is enforcement, not creating laws (of course, they can choose not to enforce, e.g. DACA, until challenged in court). As for an ICE immigration officer, they don't make the laws, they don't interpret the laws, they get told what to do and get a paycheck.\n\nIf the laws are unjust, talk to Congress. They tried to pass a DACA bill for years and have failed. I wouldn't suspect any further advancement towards being more accepting towards illegal immigration within the next few years. It also removes the reason for people to pay tons of money and waste tons of time going through the legal means to get into the US, and I bet they love that income.\n\nAnd not to point fingers, DACA is an executive initiative that was drafted by the Obama administration. Mr. Garcia was not eligible for DACA due to the date/age limitations set in place by the Obama administration. Not that it'd matter since I believe DACA has been rescinded now anyway, but if he was caught a few years ago he'd have no foot to stand on anyway. I guess the Obama administration just wasn't as hard as Trump on illegal immigration.\n\nAs for Mr. Garcia's case. It's a relatively sad story, it's torn up a family, and even if you could argue that he should've left the US, he stayed, he's ensured a better future for his family within the US. I'm sure he would've known one day he was gonna get kicked out, but at least he can be happy that his family will do well in the US. If we remove the illegal immigration aspect, I'm presuming this guy worked, so he's contributing more to America than many actual Americans. I think, following this logic, he should have the opportunity to make his stay in America permanent, and the US government needs to really start expediting visa applications and process them faster. Given the technology they have, vetting should not be difficult. But if we start making case by case decisions, too much is left to interpretation by the ICE officer, there will be no consistency and there will be more arguments on the lack of consistency. The justice system is consistent. They use previous judgements as a basis for current/future judgements, ensuring fairness for everyone. Dealing with illegal immigration on a case by case basis ruins consistency. Two people with the same or very similar backgrounds could have completely different futures depending on the ICE officer and their mood that day.", "As well as discounting it erase the arguments potential. Simply naming it a good one or a bad one does nothing to the arguments point. ", "Yes the 10 year old knew following his parents was wrong, good thing we caught him 30 years later /s", "Good. ", "It this supposed to make people support illegal immigration or something? Vote to reduce wait times if you are pro immigration.", "Do most illegals just start signing up for all benefits possible? Why not just make it so those benefits don't benefit them as much? Why ruin lives though? ", "And I was right.", "My barber's family member's* has been well over 10. YMMV", "I heard of a woman in our area who immigrated illegally to the US because she was a cop in Mexico who started investigating murders. One by one, every cop involved started dying. She grabbed her kids and left. Gave no fucks about applying for a visa. As a parent, I would 100% do the same thing. ", "We lack common fucking sense.", "Jesus, at least 100 people downvoted you for this. I don't get the hate against immigrants. Who are these people, that don't already have jobs, that are blaming them for their misfortune?", ">Only way is through marriage, and your SO petitioning for you\n\nNope, people that enter without inspection cannot adjust even through marriage. The only option they have is to leave the country and get a waiver that will most likely be denied and at that point they are barred from re-entering the US for a decade. ", "You realize that illegal immigration has been declining in this country for over 2 decades, and that it isn't a \"major problem\" and that we don't need to focus on not letting everyone come in because a lot of people don't want to come in anymore? \n\nHere's how you protect against illegal immigration; you build up the impoverished nations in the world via goods, education, trade and etc. Once you do that, people won't be looking to leave their nations. You could legalize Marijuana - and other drugs if you wanted - further assisting Mexico in it's forward progress but that would harm the system $$$$ for police and prisons so that isn't happening. \n\nWhat doesn't work about our immigration policy? PLEASE tell me. I'm dying to know. My girlfriend of 2 years applied for a student visa following her j-1 visa, and was denied. She's from Colombia and has worked hard here forever. She has an engineering degree and was seeking to get a masters. She was denied the transfer for status because of Trump. The USA has the TOUGHEST immigration policy in the world, yet you have been convinced somehow that it's not tough and speak your mind about something you know next to nothing about. The process, the requirements, and the reasons to even get a visa here are endless. Another friend of mine had refugee status from Venezuela which the government held and held and then extended for only one year. She is a nurse and works 2 jobs; contributes to the system and society better than plenty of unemployed naturalized american's; I didn't realize we chose where we were born. I didn't realize that we were no longer the land of opportunity. ", "Times like this do not make me proud to be an American.\n", "TIL: International borders and immigration is arbitrary. ", "Wow, you mean Mexico has a border?", "What was he supposed to do, go back to a country he hardly even remembered, with no friends there, no connections and probably no documentation? You think this is an easy choice?", "Not if you entered without inspection. You need a status to adjust from. If he'd come in with a tourist visa and it expired then he'd be able to. If he was snuck in then he was SOL.", "Are you sure:\n\nhttps://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/14/richest-1-percent-now-own-half-the-worlds-wealth.html", "As an American this is a head scratcher. He's lived the majority of his life here. Why shouldn't he get to stay? The fuck is wrong with people? ", "Laws are laws \n\nInb4 downvote", "Because feelings", "F U C K Y O U T R U M P", "This is better than everything over here in europe.\nIt looks cruel but if you let everyone do as they please you will end up with 1,6 Million so called refugees who will do awfull shit even the police tries to hide so no one will freak out.", "Right on. And people think they should just get raises essentially because they show up every day. Aside from adjusting for inflation in salary, you have to bring value to increase what you get valued at. There are countless avenues, many at low or no cost, to increase your value as an important part of a company and people just don't take them. And for the record, I'm just starting out near the bottom rung of my field, not some manager or executive. I would love a raise or promotion, but I need to feel I've earned it. ", "...yeah. i know people answered it. I was responding to the first part of the comment.", "fuck this \"real american\" bullshit. the problem is that mexicans abused the loopholes. it's not sustainable. we're not in the 1950's any more. we dont need that many farm workers. especially if they're gonna stick around and have a lots of babies.\n\none dude getting deported is not going to change decades and tens of millions people who got a free ride.", "Yes, the article was particularly interesting because it provided absolutely zero sources to support any of its claims.", "Being too old isn’t a valid excuse. Becoming a legal resident for someone like him who has been in country for so long is way easier than someone brand new, unfamiliar with systems.", "Oh is that what they are, I thought it was lots of Indigenous Native Americans. ", "What criminals on wall street? Are there convicted people there I'm not aware of?", "Do you have any documentation supporting this? Genuinely curious.", "More of a \"well that's a shitty thing to do today\" than any legal/material issue.\n\nMLK wanteed people to be judged by their character, not their race. And I'm guessing he wouldn't be too pleased with someone being discriminated against because they were born in Mexico. ", "You could plan a little bit, plenty of people who don't marry or get kids until their 30s because they don't find it comfortable to provide for a family as a young adult\n\nIt would have been a struggle to move out of the country temporarily to apply for citizenship once he filled 18, losing years while you wait for citizenship, but preferable to the risk of having your life shattered at the age of 40, by the time he will be allowed back into the country he will be 50 and starting over again will be near impossible. It's poor life planning", "I can't, for any reason, make myself believe that he had no idea he was in the wrong. He had plenty of time and opportunity to fix it, yet he did nothing.\n\n\nIs this situation not his fault?", "> There is. \n\nThen tell me what the exact steps are. I don't understand.\n\nHis parents brought him here illegally when he was 10.\n\nLet's say once he's an adult he wants to get legal. What are the specific steps he should have taken once he was an adult to get legal and stay in the USA? That's what I'm asking.\n\n", "He and his parents should have been sent back back then. But we don’t have the whole story as to why he is being sent back now ", "Absolutely wrong. There is no requirement to be a US citizen to get married in the US. Many tourists come to get married in the US (destination weddings, Vegas, etc.), and marrying in the US confers no immigration rights upon you. If you marry a US citizen then they can petition for permanent residency for you, but that's entirely unrelated to having your marriage ceremony in the US.\n\nTypically all you need is an accepted ID, which could be a driver's license, US or foreign passport, and pay the fee. The requirements might vary from state to state, or county to county, but it certainly is not a general requirement to have a US-issued birth certificate or social security card to get a marriage license in the United States.", "These laws are broken and need serious reform. We shouldn't be allowing lives to be destroyed because of imaginary lines on the ground.", "Kid has to be 21, and it takes 10+ years to be approved if approved", ">But if he was undocumented, he was not eligible for a green card upon marrying a citizen. \n\nHe wasn't \"undocumented\". He is an illegal alien. He entered the country illegally.", "So he got 30 years of America, perhaps he can share some of our culture and education with....you know...his actual fucking country.\n\nNot seeing the problem. Should be thanking us. We took a kid, cared for him, educated him, gave him skills he can use in his own country, and a taste of a good country. Now he can share that with his own countrymen.\n\nI say good job ICE. Happy MLK day!", "Not according to CNBC:\n\nhttps://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/14/richest-1-percent-now-own-half-the-worlds-wealth.html", "People like you are the reason he got in. And just for the record, I think he's a moron.", "That is the clause in the law and regulation. ", "Because ppl Wana fuck off and not do what they are supposed to do and then blame others like the retards they are . Might be a little much and sorry if it comes off mean but he had 30 years . He had 30 years to get his citizenship and he didn't . So it is no one's fault but his for putting his family in this situation.", "I know someone who was been here since age 8 and is now a legal resident ( age 30 ). So it does happen.", "The temporary visa thing gets overlooked so much. It happens with mostly Asian Americans and I had to write a paper on it. Indians on H1 Visas if I recall were one of the highest offenders", "But you said he was a good citizen. He isn’t a citizen. That’s the difference. ", "I get where he’s coming from. The moral panic of the left is spreading like a cult. When a chairwoman of the DNC can stand up in front of thousands and say “It’s my job to make sure white people step back and shut up.” And she’s met with cheers and applause. It’s blatant racism and groupthink. ", "Thank you", "I don't want to be an ass, but isn't it hard to get deported when you already are married with kids and worked in the US? I mean there has to be something else from his history or family history. ", "Really?\n\nhttps://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/14/richest-1-percent-now-own-half-the-worlds-wealth.html", "there are some truly heartless people in power in the US", "Not sure. Did he?", "It's his crime too, Chose to stay after becoming an adult, without finding a path toward citizenship. He made that choice, no one made it for him.", "But when you leave the park, you still have a home and a family to return to.\n\nFor this guy, the park was his home and family. \n", "Not to mention this essentially means the taxpayers to pay for his wife and children since the breadwinner was deported. There's no benefit to this. ", "Oh, boy! We've got a rational post here that fits neither narrative perfectly! Too much cognitive dissonance! I feel like I either need to scream \"Fake News!\" at you or \"Hypochristian Nut Job!\" Whichever gets me more Karma. ", "Serves him right for breaking the law.", "Since you’re a fan of mental gymnastics, as evidenced by your 7-11 statement, perhaps then you can tell me how a DACA recipient can get citizenship, or how anyone can without a green card/permanent resident card. Particularly since it’s step one according to [USA.gov](https://www.usa.gov/become-us-citizen) ", "How do you know he/she is white? Racist much?", "If his wife was a resident citizen how come he didn't apply before?", "???????????", "Make America safe again. #shitholepresident", "Legal immigrant here. I have no problem with illegal immigrants. \n\nPlease don't stereotype all of us as heartless, disgusting pieces of shit like your neighbor and those who voted for White nationalist Trump. ", "Ah yes the states that pay more in federal taxes than they receive in benefits, what leeches on the system. ", "Let the racism out buddy. ", "Then why does he want to stay here? He can take his family to the shining beacon of Mexico.", "Yeah, I do actually hate pretty much most bloated and wasteful government spending (so basically all of it), but that's not the issue being discussed. I have an issue with my taxes helping pay for shit I don't agree with, which includes little shitheaded criminal children getting free college from my stupid fucking state that I pay taxes to. ", "Your anecdotal experiences are meaningless, you know it's possible to do it right under the exact circumstances that your father was under before immigrating. Something tells me your father probably wasn't brought into the country illegally by his parents when he was 10.", "you cant apply for citizenship while here undocumented. Once his parents took him over the border, his ability to apply was voided. It's not his bad decision, it was America's bad decision to ignore turn a blind eye to children in bad situations not of their own fault.\n\nEven if he tried going back to Mexico at age 18, he'd be stopped at the border for having no papers or documentation. It's not like he decided to stay, he was stuck here.", "All the more reason to start the process as soon as feasibly possible. Maybe before you start a family.. ", "How's the age of consent law work for them, I saw a nwe business came into town, the new building was quite erect.", "We shouldn't try to follow the law of the land because it's HARD :(", "So... try to do it legally and risk deportation, or hide like a crook and hope for the best.... and still get deported. Seems about right.\n\nHe knew he wasn't a citizen and could have took the honorable route but instead had to be found by a gov organization and forced out.\n\nEven if he was only 10 at the time, by the time he was a grown man he could have manned up and took the proper steps.", "Im on this guys side, but why cant people use the terminology illegal instead of undocumented? Its not like we are going to stop sympathizing if you say \"illegal\". By definition if you are undocumented you are illegal. Its a crime. Its like saying a bank robber made and undocumented withdrawal. ", "\"YOU MUST USE THE POLITICALLY CORRECT LANGUAGE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE\"\n\n\\-Republicans", "I am thoroughly confused where you came up with that number. \n\nAccording to the oecd, we have the most progressive tax system in the world. ", "It's long enough that his only practical choice is to either circumvent the ban or never see his family again.", "Well that makes sense. ", "Facts don’t care about your feelings. No one is hating the guy. He didn’t kill anyone. He had years to fix his situation and didn’t. He broke the law. End of story. ", "Disneyland is not a sovereign nation. It is not equivalent to this situation in any form.", "Implying there's never been made laws based on feels before.\n\nAlso, I have no doubt a lot laws made today would be made better if they included a more empathic approach", "How noble. \n", "So the next democrat after Clinton?", "There is no path to citizenship for people in his situation. The proposed DREAM Act would establish a path to citizenship, but as the law currently stands, there is no way for him to achieve legal status.", "I get the possibility of being kicked out, but to then ban him from applying to a 10yr process for 10yrs is bollocks. Especially when he wasn’t the “criminal”. He was 10yrs old. It appears (I have no proof) that he was a normal productive member of society, and he has solid ties to US citizens. \n\n\nThen again, here in NZ we let them stay because they start crying. So there does need to be an in-between point. ", "So it’s the age old twisting of the situation to make it fit the racism narrative?", "So, he had 30 years to become a legal citizen but didn't???", "So the system works. /s", ">bullshit conservative media\n\nNo this is what my Immigrant (Medical Doctor) father complains about at dinner, actually. ", "> Taxation is Theft.\n\nlol", "https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qmmht/comment/dsqn2as?st=JCGX45X7&sh=da83c89b", "> He had 30 years to follow our laws to become a legal resident.\n\nNo he didn't. I'm calling you ignorant because I'm tired of explaining that there's such thing as following the law and then being left in limbo with no reasonable solution. Meanwhile, his top responsibility was to his family, making sure his children are cared for. Your response has nothing in it I can call morality nor serving the well being of native born Americans (like his children).", "What is your point OP?", "A lot of people don’t know this. \n\n\nMedicare/Medicaid and social security make up the lions share of our annual spending. Military is less than 20%", "That's nonsense, non-citizen driver's licenses [have markers on them indicating as such.](http://inlandpolitics.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/DMV-Illegal-License-Format.jpg) Don't spread lies.", "Trump won office because some cunts got called names? I get called a commie all the time but that doesn't factor into my decision making for voting. ", "> He fucked up his own life, and before that his parents fucked his life.\n\nObjectively false. He made a lovely life for himself, and his parents gave him a far superior opportunity at a good life by bringing him to the United States. \n\n>The minute he turned 18 he could have taken his ass across that border and applied for citizenship in a number of ways. Instead he stayed here, hiding out, got married, had kids, and now like his parents, he's fucking over his own kids by being selfish and lazy.\n\nYeah, and then just wait another fucking decade to maybe get back into the country where he grew up. Instead, he stayed a worked hard and created a familiy and did normal, everyday American shit for 3 fucking decades, until 2016 rolled around and a bunch of racist cunts decided he wasn't American enough for their degenerate tastes and decided that destroying innocent AMERICAN families was something we really ought to be doing.\n\n>We have laws and they need to be followed.\n\nOur laws are garbage and so are you.\n\n>These laws were around way before Trump, and lots of people got deported WAY before Trump, and will continue to get deported.\n\nYeah, this narrative doesn't really fly when you consider that Trump changed our policy from \"deport criminals and recent arrivals\" to \"deport everybody, no questions asked\", that our previous President tried to create a law to protect people exactly like Jorge Garcia and the racist Republican party shot it down, so we got DACA, which is under attack by the racist Republican party, AND that Jorge Garcia received multiple stays of deportation from the previous administration.\n\nSo no, Trump and the Republicans are actually just cunts. \n\n>This isn't an open border country. \n\nNo, it isn't, and nobody wants it to be.\n", "LOL What? The USA has the most difficult immigration requirements of any country in the world; there are countries that equal it, but no one exceeds it. Where do you idiots come up with this nonsense? ", "Let me try to help you out here. You are really struggling to understand that no one is saying borders and slavery are the same thing -- they are using your poor reasoning against you.\n\nYou: \"Pretty much every country has borders and laws in regards to immigration, so this isn't unjust\" [emphasis mine]\n\nIn other words: If pretty much every country enforces X law, it isn't unjust\n\nIf you don't like that argument being very easily used against you when it comes to something like slavery [or insert social injustice here], you probably shouldn't use it as an argument, because you don't actually apply it consistently -- you just cherry pick. And if you weren't actually trying to apply it as justification, then you should say what you mean.\n\nI hope that helps.", "I know you're just trying to stoke the fire, but try to learn something here.\n\nThere is a difference between illegal immigrant and undocumented immigrant:\n\n- Illegal immigrant is someone who is present here illegally. They entered with a student or tourist visa, or temporary work visa, and overstayed their allotted time. The government has *full knowledge* of their presence in the US. They may have driver's licenses and social security numbers, they pay taxes, they can even open companies and employ americans. They can be stopped for speeding, get a ticket, and the officer is none the wiser about their status. These people have a set of rules that applies to their situation. \n\n- Undocumented immigrant is someone who has no documents (duh). They have no paper trail in the US. They were brought over the border (not through an airport) and there is no record of that entry. The US government has no idea who they are, where they live, how many of them there are. They may *try* to pay taxes, but it is difficult (this depends on more details not worth getting into), mostly they are unable to pay taxes. They have a *different* set of rules that applies to their situation.", "If he came across the border without proper authorization then he had few options even if he married a citizen. His options then would be have an employer or family member file a visa petition for him, but only if done before like 1997 or so", "This is only gonna make his kids resent the us.", "The article got its information from FAIR. A known anti-immigrant hate group. Try again.", "I guess I don’t understand this line of thinking. There man was contributing more than burnouts who just happen to be born here. ", "swim doesn't even do anything to protect people and also they don't need protection from anything (unless they are talking about importing and or selling drugs which they were never allowed to do on bluelight)\n\nEventually forums banned that SWIM shit because it was annoying", "Real question, does Mexico not grant citizenship to the children of Mexican parents?", "It's an example meant to clarify that breaking the law is breaking the law whether you're doing it for some perceived moral good or not. In the eyes of the law he should have turned himself in immediately and applied for citizenship. He did not, so he is punished accordingly. I'm not saying it's perfect but there's not many solutions besides abolishing customs (illogical and irrational) or this.", "False equivalency. \nGetting a license is not confusing, and if it is then I worry for you.\n\nAt the end of the day a family is being shattered and a man is going to a country that he doesn't know. How is this just? The guy had no record, held down a job, paid taxes, was raising a family.\n\nBut yeah, lets all celebrate him being shoved out of the only home he knows, due to his crime of being born somewhere else.", "Fuck this shit ", "Lol are you 12 years old? I can't imagine another reason why somebody wouldn't understand why uncontrolled immigration is a bad thing.", "I can't remember this country ever claiming to be free enough for you to break its laws without consequence. His parents gambled with their children's future, it's awful.", "There is no path for the very poor form developing countries to come to the US. They can go back to the line because there literally is no line unless they risk everything to sneak in here. My family are all immigrants but I know it’s because we had a relative level of privilege to be able to come here and grab these opportunities, the same opportunities I will never begrudge others simply because they were too poor to qualify. ", "I honestly have no idea what I would do in that situation. But hopefully I would understand why the law had to be followed regardless of my predicament. The laws we have are the only thing keeping things stable. And wee have a democracy set up here for this very reason. If a majority of Americans think this is unjust, they can vote in the politicians that will change the current laws. But what I think you'll find is that a majority of Americans DON'T have a problem with the current law, and would have a problem with you deciding for them that we should circumvent the immigration policies they may agree with.", "Who exactly are you quoting there?", "What are you some 10 year old choir boy? Better get off the comp or mommy might get mad.", "You sound like a rational individual ", ">There was no path to citizenship since he was already an undocumented immigrant. \n\nIllegal immigrant. He didn't have \"documents\" because he entered the country illegally.", "First, Empathy means \"the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.\" \n\nSecond, the vast majority of people brought here as a young child would never willingly leave. I can have empathy for him because I can understand his choices and pain. I can see myself in his position if I wasn't so fortunate. \n\nThird, \n\n> He doesn't give half a shit about you or me or anyone else except himself\n\nBecause he didn't willingly leave the country he was brought to as a child? Really? \n", "The only values conservatives care about are the ones in their bank accounts.", "[Man, are you in for a shock.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-canada-immigration-deportation/canada-deported-hundreds-to-war-torn-countries-government-data-idUSKCN1BL0VB)\n\n[Canada warned illegals not to come else they be deported.](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/world/canada/quebec-immigrants-haitians.html)\n\n>“We don’t want people to illegally enter our border, and doing so is not a free ticket to Canada,” Mr. Hussen said in an interview. “We are saying, ‘You will be apprehended, screened, detained, fingerprinted, and if you can’t establish a genuine claim, you will be denied refugee protection and removed.’ ”\n\nWhich is the exact same stance that the US government has.", "There are extremely serious implications to handing out US citizenship like it’s pieces of candy.", "You shouldn't get to have it both ways though. You can't decide not to enforce laws, then 30 years later decide 'actually you know what, fuck you - you're deported' for no reason. That's not how other legal systems work - precedence is a thing. If crimes are committed then sure, but for someone peacefully bringing up their family it's a total joke. \n\nI hope to fuck he comes to Canada and moves his family up here where we give a shit about people and it's safe. Too bad it's just fackin' cold as hell.\n\n", "Well what options do you think he had? Sure, you don't get it from doing nothing. I'll give you that. ", "Undocumented immigrants couldn't join the military. Also, being forced to join the military isn't much of a solution ", "If he's in Mexico, he can literally just walk up and meet back up with his family, grab a bus somewhere.\n\nGiven how unorganised the US government is, I doubt they're gonna check again (they don't have the time/money to keep rechecking every family they make a deport from). If they do, they deport again, he comes back in. I guess after 2 deports they'll take further action, but damn, if that was me I'd not give two shits. I'd be back with my kids. Fuck that.", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6m7pWEMPlA \nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx2scvIFGjE \nAnd there are probably lots more where they just asked random people for a comedy bit.", "I mean, it says \"sometimes disparaging + offensive\" right there. Is that not good enough for you?", "Or, y’know, focus on both.\n\nEdit: oh neat, following whataboutism with an ad hominem attack! The logical left, folks!", "Can't he marry someone and come in that way? ", "Yeah.\n\nI think it's natural to go from \"look at this terrible story about a deported illegal immigrant\" to \"we need to find a way to avoid stories like these\". \n\nOne way is to open our borders and let more people come in. The other way is to strengthen our borders and restrict immigration to the point it becomes too difficult to be an illegal immigrant in our country.\n\nI'm really not sure how to decide. There's the whole \"give me your tired...\" stuff, but that's just a poem. We've always restricted immigration as long as there's been an immigration office. How do you tell the difference between an immigrant coming to build a life and contribute to society versus an immigrant that wants to live off of the welfare or detriment of the American people?\n\nRegardless, clearly the policy is flawed here. A dedicated, working, family man (if that is indeed who he is) ought to have a place in our America.", "Oh. Lol my bad then. I still don't think anyone comes here with the intention of taking advantage of this country though. ", "Do you have any documentation supporting this? Genuinely curious.", "No he did not I suspect because he would have been deported. Think at 10 age does matter. Big difference at 18 coming here versus at 10 your parents bringing you. Did you expect him at 10 to also report his parents?", "'Extreme empathy' has to be the most fucked up and contrived attempt at political commentary I've heard in a while.", "Bummer that his parents fucked him over like that. I fail to see how this is the government's fault.", "Because they're more than just their immigration status (as this post demonstrates). It's the same reason why \"gay people\" sounds better than \"the gays.\" One acknowledges personhood and the other boils everything down to a single aspect of one's life.\n\nSecondly, I would argue that \"illegals\" is derogatory because \"illegal\" should be used to describe actions and not people. A person isn't illegal but their behaviors could be. ", "Used to be against the law for a black person to eat in the same section of a restaurant as white people. Should we have all just kept going along with it because it was a law?", "No you absolute brain dead imbecile. He is talking about your fucking stupid idea of making this person work years of hard labor", "What? Only pays 2.7x the times taxes? ", "Yea different priority dates. Still the waiting translates to decades of waiting since these countries have a lot of applications.", "He clearly is not, he doesn’t even mention boycotting in his comment.", "he isn't applying for a H1b or lottery he is married to a us citizen. Its like 1 year to get a non citizen permanent residences through marriage. ", "Proper word is undocumented. Pretty common sense if you ask me. Illegal is dehumanizing the person. ", "Don't forget my favorite... \n\n\"Lies\" vs \"Falsehoods\"", "Funny. I've heard of people of all types doing that too. Does that mean all people are shitheads? Does that mean all of them should be kicked out?", "The Irish do it all the time.", "Yeah sure it can be hot and humid in the summer but it’s 23 degrees in Toronto right now and gets even colder. It’s also very much an outlier(for major cities it is essentially the outlier) for Canada. Let’s be real, most of Canada is very cold for a lot of the year. It only gets hot in very few select places.\n\nSure it’s south of Washington but you know what else is? Oregon. And Oregon is pretty cold for most of the year too. We see plenty of negatives out here in the high desert, and both the valley and the coast are cold and super wet which can be worse. ", "Something tells me this is bullshit. I live in south Texas and if the Feds wanted to deport illegal people they would be busy in San Antonio for 10 years. ", "Looks like the mouth breathers showed up. Nah guys, we get it. You aren't racist, right? You just like to insult people different then you, and HOPEFULLY they are illegal so it'll all work out. Waiting on all your \"but, but, but's.\" Because you guys are nothing if not predictable.\n\nIt's ok to be diverse.\n", "Right, because we never revise our laws or constitution when we realize they are racist and obsolete...", "Democratic election speaking North Carolina.\n\nhttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-carolina-not-democracy-elections-cuba-iran-venezuela-gop-a7494561.html", "If more conservative people saw this picture they may be change their mind. ", "The left making it about race eat again, while ignoring the actual issue of illegal immigration.", "Ha, yeah right. 10 years old you really don’t know much, especially about the fucking laws to enter another country. Come on...\n\nEdit: out of all my downvoted comments in the 6 years of redditing, this is the one that proves just how blind people can be with their views. If you truly believe a 10 year old child cares anything about immigration laws then you're a dumb fuck, plain and simple.", "> This guy has known what was coming since he was found out in 2009\n\nThe President wasn't a piece of shit in 2009, so he was granted multiple stays. ", "He might have thought he was legal under DACA, and having a social (which you can have even if not legal). He was a child when he was brought here, and likely grew up in a place where he was taught he was okay to be here. And you know what? He should be. ", "Undocumented ", "> Oh and if they dont commit any crimes, beyond breaking and entering.\n\nWell, Jorge is. It is as if it is a continual B&E. First crime was entering illegally, the second and ongoing crime is staying, and it is a new charge every day.", "> You can't just enter the country, hide your dripping knife\n\nDude... the fuck. The guy was 10 when he came across. \n\n>Only the most skilled and brave criminals would try to get through.\n\nCriminals ferry busloads of immigrants over the boarder all the time. \n\n>Do you think drug use would go down if we just forgave anyone who didn't cause trouble while high?\n\nIt would certainly cause less crime. ", "In that case, the fault is not the concern, the parents and the sister should all be offered the opportunity to pay for a ticket.\n\nThis man would certainly pay even more money than the standard price for a ticket... but he's not being allowed the opportunity.\n\nWhat is this \"merit\" that Trump speaks of? Why can't illegals simply pay a steep fine to stay here and gain amnesty or citizenship? Why is it acceptable for people to hire illegal immigrants and only be penalized with a slap on the wrist?\n\nYou could stop illegal immigration tomorrow if you made it a felony to hire illegals, made it a felony to not run your employees through eVerify. instead of doing that they want to build walls and keep pushing out news stories every time an illegal immigrant is accused of or charged with a crime. \n\nOne side wants you to see them as helpless victims, the other side wants you to see them as criminals... and who wins with the narrative like that? The employers, the people who have all of the money. They get to keep wages low and sometimes they're lucky enough to hire an illegal immigrant... and in that case they save a shit ton of money. Meanwhile Americans have to worry about making enough money that they're not living from check to check, since they're competing with people who will work for less than min wage just to survive.", "Dude, you called him out about mentioning prayer, then you make reference to Obama out of nowhere. You were having a federal policy discussion correct? You're guilty of doing the exact same thing you called him out for!", "I work in a school with 90% hispanic students (all ~11 or younger). If I asked them all if they were American citizens, they would all say yes.\n\nYou and I both know this isn't actually the case. If you have any experience with young children you would know that kids are terrible liars. Your comment reeks of ignorance to the actual situation these people live in.", "Damn my bad I spoke out with an uneducated reply. I apologize for that. ", "That's not a realistic path for a 10 year old to follow; to be clear you are suggesting they leave their parents and go to mexico alone, possibly with no family left in mexico? Get real.", "Taxes well spent I must say. ", "Yeah but they're no average family. They're sitting on a vast pile of wealth they have stolen from all us citizens over the years.\n\n/s", "So he's going back to his shithole country right?", "\"Affordable Care Act\"\n\n\"Premiums for Americans increased by 40%--200%\"\n\nI think 'Obamacare' is the more reasonable brand here.", "The real question: Is the Reddit community just going to let this happen?", "Wealth isn't taxed, so that's irrelevant. And any wealth figure would be highly inaccurate as it would be only estimates. They always pay more than their share of earnings though, which is what tax is based on.", "You're against \"illegal immigration\" because immigrants are treated poorly? Are you also against legal immigration because of the same exact thing? You seem to be all over the place with your typical centrist/liberal spiel.", "Yup. I love how people get all upset because we're finally deciding to enforce the law. These people are called illegal immigrants because they are breaking the law. I work with several people who immigrated here illegally and eventually became citizens because they liked America much more than Mexico. They all say that the day they became an American citizen was one of the happiest days in their lives.", "Yeah fuck laws and rules, feelings are what really matters. fuck off", "I'm sorry, but if you do want \"ignorant ass answers\" to cease to exist, then at least try to tell people what they had wrong instead of just being a jerk", "But the blame isn't on the law. He had twenty years to fix this.", "Let's start with you. ", "Good for him, I hope he’s happy and well!", "Who determines who needs it the most? You? Citizenship should be given to those that can benefit the US the most, not who can benefit FROM the US the most. ", "Well. its sucks but follow the fucking rules. I hate when people try to create special rules for these people. People cry, \"well, he came when he was a kidddd!!!!\". \n\nSO FUCKING WHAT. If you are here illegally, get that shit fixed. Simple. ", "Why would SWIY do that?", "Like Canada? Lol", "And he made the decision to stay here 30 years. Or how about let's say once he was an adult he would be better prepared to do it? That's 22 fucking years he could have but knowingly decided not to go through it properly. I have no sympathy for this man or any like him.", "Whaaat, a right wing poll system has him 6% higher? Colour me shocked.", "Proper way to refer to them is undocumented.", "They prove it every day ", "I employ 11 immigrants, ranging from a guy whose work history was literally \"I walked here in the rain, and will accept minimum wage\" (now my main picker, love that fucker) to my CMO, and she was making more per year in Mexico than I ever have in my life lol.\n\nThe shortest process I know of is over 5 years, and he was a millionaire when he immigrated.\n\nI don't doubt that there are shorter times for the immigration process, but for everyone I know, it took a lot longer than a year.", "The current corruption, violence, and despair you refer to in these countries is the direct result of U.S./European meddling and intervention, so it's not clear what your point is.", "Yeah..cuz being \"tough\" gains trust and therefore gains votes. No president has done 100% what they want to do.\n\nAlso if we count as a welfare state, that fucking sucks dude\n\nAnd I said enforcement of immigration violations", "Well sorry for insulting your father but it is still a terrible analogy that has very little thought put into it...", "That's some good ol bullshit right there. No surprise to see you posting in the dotard. Explains your lack of empathy and foresight. ", "While I see your point, I was replying to the person who was implying that he committed a criminal act such as robbing a bank. That comment has since been removed. \n\nAnd please don’t try to equate the two. Yes I realize the two are both against the law, but again, he was brought here as a child. ", "I sponsored my immigrant husband. Do you want an itemized list?\n\nWe paid over $700 in fees after our petition was approved, let alone during the 2.5 year application process.", "Because dad didn't save for college so you have to take out student loans == coming to the US as a child and making a life here for thirty years and then being deported.\nI'm sorry your parents failed you so horribly, not only did your dad not save for college they also failed to raise you as a functioning human being instead of a psychopath.", "Educate yourself ", "More likely, he paid taxes but won't get the full benefits like Social Security and Medicare when he's older.", "no, he was protected by law and now he isnt... hence him getting deported now. \n\nthey repealed the law and now hes fucked, a grown man who paid taxes and had a family. a man putting into the very system you all depend upon.\n\n pretty simple. ", "Things That Make My Dick Hard: The Post ", "Fucking exactly. Conservatives are professionals at mental-gymnastics in order to justify their white-supremacy. ", "You're a fucking idiot ", ">Affirmative action discriminates based on inherited traits and economic status of your parents, so most of the developed world practices it too in one way or another.\n\nIs there an affirmative action law? Or is it just a few policies used in some places like college? ", "Being told to leave a country you are illegally in =/= unjust. \n", "I mean Jesus only the regressive right could frame something like empathy as a negative trait", "Thank you", "It's a long shot...but if the Dems get voted back into majority and we have a less insane president, the law may change. In which case he can get back as a father of resident children. Run on sentence.", "Mate, first off how about you stop fucking your joey fuck toy and pay attention to what I was writing.\n\nFirst off, I called a government shitty, not the country.\n\nSecond, I called it Shitty, not shithole. \n\nThirdly, I'm not a wig wearing orange imbecile of a president. The standards are lower for me.\n\nSo yeah, about that previous direction.. We still have lot's of loud morons to deal with and dealing with another one is not worth my time", "If we were talking about a 22 year old dude sneaking in to work, while I'm sympathetic to him wanting to come to a better country, what you're saying is valid. We have to draw some lines and we have to figure out how to apply the rule of law to a situation that begs for compassion. \n\nBut this isn't a 22 year old sneaking into this country. This was a child brought here by his parents. He was raised here. He knows only the US. He's probably a better citizen that most. He probably greatly values his life here...more than most. It wasn't his fault he ended up here. \n\nIMO, the slippery situation is on illegal immigration of grown adults. They make choices. They are accountable to the law. When a child is brought here...nah...I don't think it's slippery. Even Trump, Mr. \"let's build a wall\" has said he wants a legal path for these kids. Why not \"these kids\" that are no longer kids? What's the difference? ", "She was too busy divorcing people", "He came here illegally and stayed for 30 years. I'll give him the first 10 years because he was 10. So 20 years. Anytime in those 20 years he could have turned him self in or left and begain the process of becoming an American citizen which btw is fairly easy compared to the rest of the world. It does take a very long time but that's due to the shear amount of people wanting to come here. ", "You don't get to call a comment stupid, and then not explain why. Thanks for chiming in on your second account.", "SWIM has seen it pretty recently.", "So you’re saying he had 30 years to attempt to become a citizen?", "I do pro bono asylum work and you're wrong.", "TLDR: don't enter America illegally if you want to stay in America. ", "The guy had 30 fucking years to get legal....how can you defend that", "Can you while demanding $15 an hour, universal basic income, the NHS, automation, 1 year maternity leave, millions of refugees, foreign aid?\n\nWhich is more important to you? To Americans? And to politicians?", "Definitely heartbreaking. A family member went through exact same thing, he was back in 1.5-2 years.", "Kind of hard and still just as illegal... ", "Because enforcing immigration law ensures that the country doesn't get taken advantage of.\n\nAccording to American liberals, every country is apparently allowed to enforce their borders except America.", "I know it sounds crazy but I'm dead serious.", "Fucking idiots everywhere you look. “Not to be a dick.” Umm, if you have to say that as a qualifier, you’re a dick and the things you are defending, dickish. ", "To be fair, calling it The \"affordable care act\" is the same thing. Especially because it caused healthcare costs to shoot way up.", "A whole bunch of people are super sure about it.", "It's not about him, there are MILLIONS of non-taxpayer-Mexicans, and a vast majority of the children are on public benefits.", "You don't fight for the working class man, you just said you were glad a working class man was deported. You aren't a socialist because you view white as superior. You are a racist, capitalist, and a nationalist.", "JFC ", "The laws the law, he had thirty years, and Barack Obama had 8. Perhaps democrats in Congress should have actually made Cannabis legal, and fixed the immigration system, instead just getting by with executive orders.", "Because they judge people by their actions not the color of their skin?", "I want to live in a society where the laws are followed. Funny how no one that I'm aware of is proposing we just not have immigration laws and let anyone and everyone move here. \n\nBecause that would be political suicide. Because no one actually wants that. \n\nThis is a sad story. I hope someday in the future maybe we really won't have borders. But....if these are our laws we should enforce them. Pretending like we didn't have them for the past few decades was irresponsible of both the Democrats and Republicans in charge.", "There really isn't a route at all, for most.", "That’s right. As long as he’s not a criminal and doesn’t some collect welfare then let him stay. His kids had the privilege of being born in the US and are citizens and have to watch their father be deported. Sad.", "You are correct that many other nations treat immigrants poorly. Their poor actions are no excuse for us to do the same.\n\nHe cannot reapply for 10 years. His family is effectively over. If he could have become a legal citizen already, he would have done so.", "How many couples and times again???", "A merit based policy would likely be prejudice against those countries regardless of ideological influence. Haiti has an average IQ of 67 and per capita GDP of like $750. There are just going to inherently be less people capable of tge economic production and levels of cultural integration we would be looking for in immigrants compared to many European or Asian nations\n\nObviously if someone could meet the requirements (probably looking for self suficient/economic contributer who want to embrace American culture and ) then they shouldn't be barred simply from being born in a bad place, but a merit system is going to naturally favor 1st world immigrants to some non trivial degree ", ">How exactly does this make America great?\n\nBy enforcing borders and ensuring that the rule of law is applied to everyone.\n\n>Criminals on Wall Street get a pass, \n\nName them and the specific crimes they committed.\n\n>hard working family men get kicked out because of massive intolerance.\n\nNo, it's because he's here illegally.\n\n", "I'm pretending to be mexican for internet points, got it.\ne; I say something a little against the grain and suddenly I'm not Mexican anymore. Maybe this is the path to citizenship after all. ", "Ok thanks Spock", "Love you too man. ", "He’s an illegal immigrant, not ISIS bro.", "He’s illegal why has this gotten positive response? Name one country where illegals are ok?!??!", "But, just to be clear, totally cool with the B&E part.", "He didn't break a law on a technicality, he simply broke a law. His parents broke the law too. When he became old enough to make decisions for himself, the legal thing to to would be to leave. I'm not saying that's the right and moral thing necessarily, but it is the legal thing. He chose to break the law as it stands now.\n\nThe \"just\" thing to do would have been to leave the country and reenter it legally instead of cutting the line that thousands of law abiding foreigners are waiting in. My dad waited in that line. He's been a legal resident of this country for about 30 years and just obtained his citizenship (note: the length of time to obtain his citizenship was his choice, not due to the length of the process).\n\nHe's not being labeled an \"illegal immigrant\" to dehumanize him, that's just a simple fact of what he is. Undocumented alien, illegal immigrant, whatever you want to call him, those are just facts.\n\nI support DACA and would like to see the dreamers be put on a path to citizenship, but I don't know that I can support a guy that knowingly broke the law for his entire life. \n\n", "A trend that started under Obama, so give credit where credit is due?", "Would'a..Could'a...Should'a... guy had 30 years to become a citizen. Blew his chance. Go to the end of the line!", "No they are undocumented. ", "Sounds like his parents brought him here just after the 1986 Amnesty. I wonder what they were thinking at the time.\n\nHis family can probably stay together if that's what they want to do.", "Legal immigrants fucking hate illegals because it's a hard path to gain citizenship in most countries.", "Sad to see. Would like to know where everyone wants the line to be drawn ", "source?\n\npeople believe that the policy of unchecked immigration is bad. there are people who believe we need to close the border completely until the current wave of immigrants assimilate.\n\nI don't think I've ever heard anyone ever say all immigrants are bad.", "Jesus how many racists are brigading this post right now ", "Um why do I feel like I'm living in pre ww2 Germany", "Ivanka’s Dad. Ruining lives since Jan 2017.", "They take about 3 months. He might lose his job, but I doubt that's worse than his current situation ", "Are you saying this didn't happen before? ", "Africa isn't a country bro. Jussayin.", "\"fuck you, I got mine\" right?", "Your math is wack", "Green card is not citizenship.", "He gave you actual quotes, idiot.", "LOL, that's your rebuttal? I'm white, and racism is a feeling of superiority over another race. There are races that may feel threatened by white people in this country, but very few of those people feel they are \"superior\" to white people.\n\nTrump is a racist POS; anyone who feels the need to defend him at this point can join him in that club. ", "Where did you come up with that number? ", "> e; he could've applied for citizenship.\n\nThose who entered illegally can't even apply for permanent residence lol. Trust me, if it were as easy as just applying for citizenship, there wouldn't be 11 million illegal immigrants here. ", "It was not physically possible for him to become a citizen at any time during those 30 years.", "This makes me truly sick ", "Maybe they just don't live in the USA and never really cared about how it works. It's not only being retarded or sarcastic, you know?", "Are you pointing out that unrestricted / illegal immigration is devastating to existing native populations? I couldnt agree more ", "But they’re closing a lot of their stores lately.", "In other words, a child should be considered a criminal for the rest of his life for something someone else did.\n\nSure makes sense to me!", "Just a simple google search https://taxfoundation.org/states-rely-most-federal-aid/", "the comments on this are fucking disgusting.\n\nyou people have no fucking idea what its like to be raised in the US by immigrants and have no fucking idea how difficult, expensive and at times borderline impossible it is to gain citizenship without leaving back to your parents' embattled country.\n\nSo you grow up from 10-18 and the day you turn 18 you say \"fuck it, i'm leaving to go back to a shit country because that's what the law says i have to do?\" Do you really fucking think that's a realistic option for these people?\n\nThe fact that you people vote makes me lose all hope for this country. \n\nedit: literally EVERY SINGLE RESPONSE to this is \"It's the law.\"\n\n\"His parents broke THE LAW.\"\n\n\"we have to enforce THE LAW.\"\n\nWhy the fuck are you all so obsessed with enforcing something when it destroys a family and provides no benefit? For deterrence? Do you really think it's going to stop people leaving their ravaged country to come to the US?\n\nDo you realize that judges make exceptions against the law all the time, particularly in immigration? \n\nThe concept of Justice is not the same thing as The Law.", "no, hence the reason i asked a question lol", "Totally agree. This comments section is up in arms about how long the re-entry process is for this guy (and don't get me wrong, separating a good family is a tragedy) but we cannot entirely forget that the incredibly long legal process is blighted by the dizzying amount of illegal immigration that diverts funds in order to be addressed.", "I imagine if he's making these comments that he's not committing a crime by choosing to live somewhere illegally. Fuck this guy, he deserves to be deported.", "Yes, when I married my wife \"Filipina\" we had to go through this little interrogation of questions to verify that it wasn't fraud. Its beneficial for expats coming to the Ph, and Filipinos going to US", "It isn’t that black or white. Immigration is way more nuanced than just open/close. But the law breaking up this American family is immoral and flawed. There should be a path to citizenship for people like Jorge. ", "Garbage comment from a garbage person. Can't even work with a ssd. ", "How do you figure she had a legal job?", "Because you're assuming that white people are \"trash pieces of shit like most trump followers.\" \n\nRacism is defined by assumptions. Not by the skin colour of the person making those assumptions", "As someone who grew up in Mexico... At this point being in Mexico seems like the best plan for them, free (and great) college, free healthcare and since they already speak English, that's a bunch of opportunities open right there", "If that was the only way for them to come to the US legally than absolutely they would. People literally risk their lives to come and stay illegally in the US because they want their kids to have a better future. If you're living in an incredibly poor or dangerous country it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities to send your kid to the US alone, to give them a decent chance of a good life. ", "So he had thirty yeats to become a citizen. Why should I feel bad?", "I like that point, actually. We describe the people as being illegal, not their actions. That seems wrong. It certainly cheapens their lives and dehumanizes them. How can a person be \"illegal\" and still maintain the rights and dignity that they're owed by virtue of being a person ? They really can't, and that's a problem.", "Sensationalized click bait. This has been going on for a long time and happened quite frequently under Obama as well:\n\nhttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/15/immigration-boy-reform-obama-deportations-families-separated", "HES GOTTA GO BACK", "I remember crossing the border a couple times a day, places like Juarez and Nogales used to be prime party spots in the 80s and 90s... To bad shits bad right now, with all the starving bullshit, and the dust storms, and we are running out of French fries and burrito coverings.", "Normal immigration laws arent intolerance. Every country has them.", "Let's be real, if we just allowed the kids to stay no problem, people would just run over with their kids all the time for them to have a better life and we would have to do something with them. Anything to deter people from bypassing immigration laws.", "Your option is basically this: as a grown man, it’s time to accept that the system is fucked, and it’s not going to change just for me. So I better put some stuff on hold right now and take a few steps towards getting a green card, even if that means leaving the country for awhile. It’s certainly going to be better than if this shit catches up to me when I’m unprepared.", "Many will make up a SSN (a tax ID number) and the tax credits go to someone else, so they never wind up collecting on the benefits.\n\nYou don't need a bank account to get paid.", "No. one. cares.", "I'm not sure Mexico would appreciate your categorization of their country", "Question: what kind of life are we looking at as an illegal immigrant? Where do they work? How do they get paid? What is their identification document? Can they go to the hospital or use other social services? Do they pay taxes? Hiw do they live?", "You changed my view, I will not call them illegals. ", "It was not physically possible for him to become a citizen at any time during those 30 years.", "If you don't enforce immigration laws, even the ones that seem cruel, then there are no real immigration laws.", "I'm glad my taxes are being spent to enforce the law.", "Lmao", "I don't think President Trump will hold still while you do that, But you can try.", " No because you can't paint half the country as dumb shits without offending and firing up people. ", "I'm pretty sure this is a Les Miserables reference. Sadly, I haven't seen it but I'm sure I would have laughed if I had. ", "Yeah for most people it's closer to a decade unless you marry a citizen. It also varies by country due to volume. For example, a high volume country like Mexico is likely to be closer to the 10 year wait.", "And this kids is what the downvote button is for. Not contributing to the conversation.. Dropping dickish comments with RTFM as your backing. Literally not contributing to the conversation in a meaningful way", "Oh how nice for you.", "I'm no expert, but maybe leaving and re-entering in a legal fashion would be a good first step? Doesn't sound too complicated, honestly.", "I did it, I had to go back to Argentina and apply, I’ve been in the USA illegally for ten years when I turned 18 I wanted to become an official American. I spent a year there while things went through, my father had to spend two years. I got my green card and became a legal alien. When I returned I got two full time jobs to support my nuclear family as my father didn’t return with us, there was a hang up in his paperwork. Was it hard ? Yes very.. was it worth it? Oh hell yes, I’m now a productive citizen that has no worries about ICE or any of that shit.. I don’t have sympathy for someone who doesn’t do something because it’s “hard”.. if it’s that important to be here then follow the goddamn rules to be here.", "So hes had 30 years to apply for citizenship....", "I am an immigrant to the US legally and I welcome those who come here “illegally” because most of them are too poor to be able to qualify or afford the legal pathways. ", "It just comes down to whether or not you're willing to support someone in a situation like that. Our tax dollars support orphanages, we give welfare to those who can't work, we do all these things to, at the end of the day, help people but we can't let this guy slide? Removing him from his family's life like this is like murder.", "That would require common sense which the USA lacks", "You're comparing drug addiction or gambling addiction or murder to a dude who didn't report himself to the government and deport himself in order to get a green card. \n\nThe white privilege is so loud I can't even hear myself think. ", "Half of the country is not republican, Bush and Trump were both only able to become president due to the electoral college, they both lost the popular vote.\n\nEdit: I don't need to delete my post, because I'm not ashamed of what I said.", "Must be a south pole elf", "Here, you need this more than I do: \\\\", "\\>Fighted", "As if to prove my point. Have a good one!", "No. He cannot. He is banned from any kind of visa for 10 yrs.\n\nOnce he got married to a US citizen, he should have consulted a lawyer to adjust his status. It is much much easier if his status was legal but it is doable otherwise. Or if for some reason it was not (not a lawyer just an immigrant here), he'd need to have left the country, applied to visit the country and adjust status once legally in. Or taken the 1 hr approximately living abroad to do this the most kosher with the law way. It is my limited understanding that he had a legal recourse here. Many if not most immigration lawyers have free initial consultations and in my experience they are very thorough. Plus if you have more questions, nothing stops you from attorney hoping and ask the different questions to the different lawyers. Personally I have no idea how you choose a lawyer without interviewing 2-3 at least so when I once thought I might need a laywer I did exactly that. Ended up not needing one but that is based on information from the three lawyers I saw. \n\nA complicating factor to this mess is that the department that deals with immigrants inside the country is not the same as the department that deals with want to be immigrants outside the country. In fact the visa you get at a consulate is an entry visa, and only at the border are you given the appropriate permission-to-stay visa (this is btw why one of your document applications besides the permission to change status if you are in the US legally is permission to travel, you can be legally in the US but have no right of entry to the US).\n\nSo now that he is deported, the state department cannot do anything about his deportation. ICE, inside the country, deported him. By law the state department now bans him from an entrance visa for 10 yrs. And I doubt that he has much standing with ICE since he is now outside the country. \n\nNow obviously there are complications and details -- any kind of criminal record would be an obvious complication, but I am sure a real lawyer will know of many more. \n\nAnd obviously going to a country you don;t know is scary. Trusting the US government to not screw you over when you have no rights is also scary. Losing 1 yr of employment is stupid expensive. And lawyers are not exactly cheap. Legal clinics can help but you have to be persistent and it is hard to find the time to fit them in.\n\nAt the same time letting ICE deport you really really really seems like it should be avoided. It comes with a 10 yr ban that is way harder to overrun than overcoming any of the other obstacles or so I have been told by immigration lawyers.", "People are not illegal.", "It was not physically possible for him to become a citizen at any time during those 30 years.", "nobody pointing to the insane defense spending that's increasing heyooooo", "Technically my husband, whom I please with my huge member, was born in Kenya and illegally became President. ", "Not like he had 30 years to right the wrong by applying for citizenship or moving back to the country he legally is supposed to be in.", "Your morals are whatever you want them to be, just trying to help you understand basic reasoning and argumentation.", "Yea? Well your opinion sucks.", "Yea, I can't decide on his new name, President Shithole or President Clusterfuck.", "I can answer that one. I did legal immigration 20 years ago. My opinion has drastically shifted the more I bothered to learn about the issue, because it isn't black and white. My initial thought years ago was, I had to pay all that money, file all those applications, sit through interviews and whatnot, to do the right thing. Why should illegal immigrants be in the same position as me?\n\nBut over the years, stories like this one clearly document a reality where I can not justify that hard position. The situations are individual and complex. These are people and families, not a bottom line or political scores. I was an adult going through the legal process so I did the right thing. A lot of people like this man were kids or just couldn't come up with the money to do the right thing at one time. \n\nBut when we don't give a shit about people or society, and when greed is in the driver seat and personal well-being is #1, that's when you yell \"LAW and ORDER.\"", "Immigrants on the whole commit less crime; however, illegal immigrants commit a vastly disproportionate share of crimes. Its important not to conflate the two.", "Yeah just leave your wife and kids behind while you wait in another country to get back in. Thank god trump is saving us from working 40 year old dads who have lived in America for 30 years without any issue", "The fact that you see these as equivalent scenarios is astounding.", "Nah", "Thanks...\n\nWorking through these... but immediately I see:\n\nThe NY Times article is nonsense. It does say that the impact on border areas is significantly negative and is full of anecdotal bullshit about how the poor, illegal immigrant sweeping the floor and doing heavy lifting helps the skilled (and legal) trades like electricians and carpenters... when in reality... in border areas and most of the Country that isn't as heavily Unionized as NY... those carpentry and electrical jobs are being done by illegals which is driving down salaries.\n\nThe Cato and The Hill's article conflates legal and illegal immigration (as the immigration defenders love to do).\n\n", "While I agree with most things you say there's somethings we don't know but can have an idea of:\n\nIt's very likely he didn't know he was an illegal from the start. I don't know about you but at the age of 10 I couldn't care less about laws for citizenship and immigration.\n\nLet's assume he understands the situation he's in at the age of say... 18. Put yourself in his shoes, would you give yourself in willingly? After spending so long in this country? When you probably are just starting your life has an adult and have no connection to your past country? Getting older doesn't make this decision any easier.\n\nThen you find a job and form a family. The years that pass no longer matter, the sentimental connection is done, there's no going back now.\n\nYou talk about how he should have tried to gain citizenship but I ask you, have you seen how hard and long this process is? We can't even understand what it feels to be in his position, it's not that easy. Laws shouldn't be broken but they are also not made by computers, the world is not (shouldn't be) a black and white place, there's a reason we have Judges and Juries, just sayin...", "American's are sent to prison for less than this, ignorance isn't a reason according to the Judge.", "Because his family, friends, job, and home aren't over there.\n\nWOuld you like a permanent stay in Denmark? It's even better there than it is here, yet I think you'd mind if you just got deported to Denmark and didn't get to keep your family, friends, job, or home.", "That would be like me... an Australian being sent back to the completely different country I lived in as a child.... Queensland.", "IMO, it feels like you're blanketing conservatives with the white-supremacist tag a little too harshly. I'm sure you've dealt with some shitty replies today, but there are definitely reasonable people on all sides!", ">So what should he have done in this situation?\n\n>Not my problem! That's up to him! Life isn't fair! Pull yourself up by your bootstraps!\n\nlmao, fuck me\n\nthis has to be a generic republican novelty account", "You can’t apply for legal citizenship while you’re here illegally. ", "“I remember starting college and watching the Daily Show too. Grrr republicans are bad.”\n\nDude, you’re killing me! Full disclosure, I consider myself a left leaning moderate but god damn, that’s the funniest/truest thing I’ve heard all day, I’m in stitches over here.", "you're outta luck kiddo", "\"open borders won't cut it.\"\n\nhere's breaking news, trump wants to take more people from norway and sweded. no one from those countries wants to move here. ", "Dude, if you're 10 and your parents say you're moving to the US illegally, you move to the US illegally. Do you think expect some 10 year old to refuse to go with his family? Are you really trying to say \"he came illegally when he was 10, so it's his fault\"? How exactly do you think he and others like him should handle this situation? I would love to hear, because there is no easy answer, but the answer is certainly not \"lol, fuck him, he's illegal\" which is what the US is doing.", "Thank you for sharing this.", "Cuck....Spotted T_D user. Immediately disregard anything said.", "Inherited sins? His family smuggled him in, that is illegal in ANY country. Your age doesn’t grant you immunity from the law", "Further down in this thread is a more detailed explanation of the joke.\n\n", "We collectively ignored those laws because of the cheap labor it provided. We collectively should have correct this but we didn't. Now shit sucks and we're looking to blame others without taking responsibility for anything. How do you know he doesn't give a shit about anything but himself. Have you talked to this man? Do you know his history or motivations? Why such a strong conclusion you come up with?", "If I were to move to England/France and manage to stay there 30 years...do I get a sympathy thread on Reddit?", "You're so full of shit.\n\nDonald poster and a frequent poster to SAT. You're like 16? Get the fuck out. A legal person who overstayed their visa takes years and years to get legal status. What person on a visa is taking the SAT? Why do you people lie to push your false narrative?", "He's banned for 10 years, then they can apply and it will take another 10 years at least, so yeah if they want to live with their father they'll have to move to Mexico. ", "One could argue that pro choice could be anti-life also", "Hmmm comparing someone who committed a crime, and is an illegal, with wanting more people from developed countries with advanced degrees.... totally the same issue, and totally about race.", "Can’t believe this crap is being upvoted...", "Good. He was here illegally. The same thing would happen anywhere else in the world yet let's blame Trump for doing it. This wouldn't even be news if he was deported from Canada", "Wasn’t up to him if he was 10 years old", "I certainly agree that committing a crime does frequently have negative consequences to the criminal, his loved ones, and the community as a whole.", "Then you will have a ton of unemployed illegal immigrants while automation inevitably takes over. This will lead to a higher unemployment rate, more poverty, welfare, and more debt, all because the U.S. did not uphold immigration laws.", "It definitely takes a long time. Even if nothing goes wrong and the visa is available, the process takes more than a year. It's tough for families that have to live apart. ", "Changing the word to a more politically correct one doesn’t change the situation. If you actually want to address the problem, then you’ll need to have an honest conversation about it first.", "Ah, yes. If you cross illegally your grandchildren will suffer when their father is deported.\n\nReminds me of another country that punishes three generations of a person's family for breaking the law...", "Oh yeah, in Wisconsin people were jumping through flaming hoops and still getting denied: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-voter-id-law-turned-voters-estimate/", "why didn't he apply during the Reagan amnesty period? https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303672", "People aren’t illegal.\n\n", "Do better than just telling me I'm wrong, show me why I'm wrong and what part. We all need more knowledge. ", "Rules are hard. ", "This is so sad :(", "Gotta be honest I don't see what mlk day has to do with the story", "you cant just apply for citizenship after crossing teh border. you have to apply from another country. His parents took that right away from him, and America offered no reprieve for his predicament that he ended up in by no fault of his own. For the last 30 years he contributed to society.\n\nEven if he wanted to leave back to Mexico, he could be stopped at the border for not having documentation and arrested further limiting his options for rightful citizenship.\n\nIf you feel so strongly about him, you should eb petitioning for Trump's deportation for his chain migration and Melania's overstayed visa", "You thinks it's coherent that a child ought to be considered a criminal for the rest of his life for something someone else did? That's \"coherence\" for you?", "It's a criminal offense to enter the country without documentation, but it's a civil offense to remain without documentation.", "Trump supporters are traitors to the constitution :\\", "No, there is a 10 year ban if you get deported. ", "I believe they mean that your right to an attorney if you cannot afford one, a trial by jury, etc. are not applicable in immigration court.", "Why yes I would.\n\nBut that's not this situation. This guy obviously knew he was an illegal. He probably knew before he was even taken to the USA that it would not be legally because part of it would have been his relatives explaining to him in very strong terms that he would have to keep his status quiet and not out his family members, or himself, etc. ", "Who said they were? Do you think they can't do illegal things?", "Spanish? Mexican? Latin American? ", "\"Some folks are born made to wave the flag\nOoh, they're red, white and blue\nAnd when the band plays \"Hail to the chief\"\nOoh, they point the cannon at you, Lord\n\nIt ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son, son\nIt ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, no\n\nSome folks are born silver spoon in hand\nLord, don't they help themselves, oh\nBut when the taxman comes to the door\nLord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yes\n\nIt ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no millionaire's son, no\nIt ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, no\n\nYeah, yeah\nSome folks inherit star spangled eyes\nOoh, they send you down to war, Lord\nAnd when you ask them, \"How much should we give?\"\nOoh, they only answer More! more! more! y'all\n\nIt ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no military son, son\nIt ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, one\"\n\n", "What would be the chances of changing the rules under new govt/president?", "Back to his shithole? ", "“An illegal”. Man the way Americans talk about immigration is seriously gross ", "The Reagen amnesty was supposed to create a deal that would have stronger enforced immigration afterwards, this man shouldve been deported decades ago", "[here](https://citizenpath.com/paths-to-legal-status-undocumented/)\n\n", "Or you know could be that USA doesn't have a en mass problem of illegal Canadians so they're cut more slack. ", "You can't apply for citizenship as an illegal immigrant so your just wrong man", "Oh look another dumbass conservative strawman argument. ", "We are taking him, Straight to the border.", "Good to know you consider laws against stealing as wrong as a law saying you can own another human.", "What of he comes to Europe and gain some of the eu passports", "hey stop moving the goal post. You talked about disregarding laws so thats the talking point.\n\nI could send you links on how illegal immigration sustains itself on tax leech and identity theft but Im sure youve read articles otherwise, so thats a moot point for you. \n\nAnd for your information because of immigration I was seperated with my biological family for years because it was an expensive process. So yeah actually less sympathy for people who do it for free and illegally. ", "Well now he can then! Hooray!", "doing things? like not compromising on daca because they are still carrying on about dumph, the russian spy nazi that wants border security?\n\ncitizens just want to prioritize law & order over free for all globalism, and contrary to what your television programming tells you, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this.. ", "You are simplifying things. It's not like the dude just crossed the border. He was brought in as a child (legally not his choice), lived there for 30 years. I could imagine that such case would be defensible in some jurrisdiction in the world.", "This just breaks my heart :’( ", "Tell that to Trump and his dumbshits. ", "i love daddy trump and while this saddens me to see a family torn apart. its time for this program to come to a halt. that being said everyone who is already here illegally should be made citizens and live their lives as the Americans they dreamed to become. however with the existence of this program and poor border control this event will not be the last of its kind ", "These stories suck and they are the exact reason that immigration isn't as black and white as we'd like to think. I worked with a guy for three years who had a wife and children who were American but he was sure as hell deported during the Bush administration and he's still in Mexico. Screw this. ", "Sad story. Dude was here 30 years? Why not just have done the process to become a LEGAL immigrant?", "Then he should have made an effort to become a citizen in the 30 years he was here. ", "Do you have any evidence to say this or are you just going to make massive allegations", "Literally nothing he did was illegal. \n> which btw is fairly easy compared to the rest of the world. \n\nYou are such a lying sack of shit", "Running out of popcorn, send help.", "And the burden he put on his family by starting one while the legality of him living here was murky at best.", "Leave the country, apply for green card, move back, apply for citizenship a few years later.\n\nShould have done this earlier or moved to Mexico when he was old enough and realized that he was living in a country illegally ", "If we're going to be proper, then change the word \"humanity\" to \"those in power\". Of course, if those in power can be so wicked, then enough of the population is in agreement with who is in power. Otherwise, they wouldn't be in power.\n\nI say that generally. I might not know enough about how it works to make a good argument. I'm just dumbfounded and find where we are to be incredibly inconsistent with where some third party might guess we would be, given the amazing things we have done in the last century.", "Guess what, you're crying now and you'll cry for the rest of your life, as any kind of supremacists are the eternal victims, whose others are always to blame.\n\nYou will waste your pathetic life fighting for something you will never be able to achieve, globalism and multiculturalism are rampant and coming for all of us, either you like it or not.", "That's just the law. I don't like it, but it's not like we can do anything about it right now. As I always say in these charged positions, all you can do is speak out and vote.", "Yes, my father feels insulted daily seeing people get to work here without paying taxes, and sneak in for free while he had to take a bus with his family from Santiago to Mexico where he had to wait and work for pennies until they were approved to immigrate legally. It's not a terrible and if you can explain to me why it's a terrible analogy, I'll ask my father, a real legitimate immigrant what he thinks about your opinion and get back to you so you can get some real world information about this situation from someone who is more directly effected by it than you.", "No, he asked... \"Why is it bullshit\"\n\nBut if you read past the first clause of the guys sentence he explains why he thinks its bullshit..\n\nAlso to answer your question.. breaking a law like selling crack to minors is different. Saying \"any person who breaks the law but have a family and kids are to be given a free pass?\" is such hyperbole/strawman.\n\nAlso have you ever heard of statutes of limitation? Its been 30 years since he moved to the U.S.. Let it be..", "“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”", "The argument is not black or white it's about finding a compromise for everyone. Giving people who lived in a country for their lifetime a chance to come clean (without a 10 year uncertain process) is the compromise, not opening borders. Stop that \"all or nothing\" mentality bullshit. ", "Once people see that Americas derision of minorities and foreigners has been institutionalised they'll all try to go somewhere else and America will be dumber and more racist for it. Thats a win for the nations most vicious and repulsive people. What? You think this dude gives a fuck about policies that try to help people?", "Exactly why do you surmise that he is \"more of an American\"? You know nothing about him, this is just more SHW bullshit. \n\n", "Every trait can be a negative if taken too far. Imagine if I gave all my food and money away to some poor person. Then what would I eat? That is empathy/kindness taken too far.\n\nDid you forget to switch accounts? Cuz you replied to yourself.", "In thirty years he can't find the time to follow the law?\n\nNo sympathy.", "Two year olds can't get criminal records. Your point? ", "> you people\n\nexcuse me?", "Yes, there is. He can live a productive and fulfilling life in Mexico.", "Also have to understand he was brought here as a child so to him this is home deporting him back to his “home country” where he probably doesn’t know family or where to even go is ridiculous. And the fact that because he was brought here illegally as a child it would take him until an adult to even know how to become a citizen. ", "You can receive an ISIN number from the IRS. you can withdraw from programs, but you get the luxury to pay all the taxes your fellow citizens do. ", "Short sighted. College not being paid for? Come on. Unless you know the back story, I’d say not having daddy pay for college is pretty laughable compared to situations that cause people to run here to escape really tough situations. Study harder, get a scholarship, and for people who don’t have that,no issues from me with my tax dollars going to people who face hardship and need financial aid. IMO, the reality of what it was like to be and immigrant coming over a 100 years ago is not what most people in government or general public have any education on. You think all that ended up here from European countries were all legit? Lol. There has to be some compromise. ", "He paid taxes just like everyone else. While the family wasn't collecting assistance, they will now that he is deported. By deporting, we've actually increased the burden on the country, not decreased it.", "Its not just lawmakers who dont want to create incentives for illegal aliens, its me and like 250,000,000 other legal U.S. citizens. This guy took a risk, hes lived an excellent life for 30 years, now he has to make big adjustments. Its a harsh reality but there should not be exceptions to the laws, that wouldnt be fair either.", "I think MLK would be for deporting illegals as they hurt poor blacks.", "Do you really think that those countries just let people move there? That those countries and the EU don't have immigration policies that aren't at leas as strict as ours? Most of then don't even have birthright citizenship like we do. ", "I'm aware there are different wait times. 8 years was just the average, as cited by the immigration officer. ", "My exgf came here when she was 15 and was adopted by a US citizen. Was able to go to school and get her drivers license\n\nHer adoption attorney handled her immigration forms. He filed before she turned 16 (the cutoff date), didn’t do shit with that, and then filed again when she was 17.\n\nWe spent $10k to try and convince the judges to use the first filing date, but they cannot because of the later one. Her only way here now is to pay someone to marry her", "It was not physically possible for him to become a citizen at any time during those 30 years.", "The fact that you’re okay with people breaking laws to justify your childish feelings is disgusting. ", "Im curious.. why cant he just go to canada and live there with his family now?", "> Easiest solution is to stop the practice of awarding citizenship for just being born on US soil\n\nGiven that's in the constitution, that doesn't sound like the easiest solution.\n\nIf every country had that rule, then kids born in a country different from where their parents are from would not be citizens of any country. That doesn't sound too easy either. Where do you deport him to, if they won't take him as a citizen?\n", "How did it go for the native Americans? Not to great if I remember. Do you deny that they suffered?", "If you don't enforce immigration law then you don't actually have immigration laws.", "Conservative that I know use logic and fact. Emotion is a feeling not a law.", "It makes sense. But it doesn't diminish the unfortunate circumstance of this particular individual.", "I suspect it would be because his wife works. If she didn’t and they all relied on his income then sure I guess so. I wouldn’t be surprised if he essentially told his wife to keep her job and support the kids. It might’ve seemed more prudent if the only option were to quit her job and beg the mercy of the court. Besides, if you do such a thing I’ve been told the court can hold it against you. ", "Good ", "Trump removed DACA (inapplicable in this particular situation) but did officially start ICE crackdowns and deportations. \n\nFor someone pretending to know so much about civics, you seem to know nothing. \n\nPerhaps your reading nothing but Hannity books. \n\nCheck yourself, MAGA boy. This is not T_D where you get to make up your own alternative facts. ", "So, your argument is that it's good that he hid from the government because they would have deported him, which is what they're supposed to do to protect our country and our economy? Sorry but your sjw argument of trying to guilt me into agreeing isn't gonna work. There are reasons we have these laws and I'm glad to see that he was brought to justice. ", "Not exactly. It is possible to get a waiver. He can apply based on his wife, presuming she is a citizen, then get denied for the deportation/10 year bar, and then apply for a waiver. Waiver process is expensive and requires a lawyer. It costs thousands of dollars. It will probably take a year for his petition to get to the embassy, where he will be denied, then another year or so for waiver. No guarantees on the waivers either. The USC (presuming his wife is) needs to prove extreme hardship if he is not allowed back. I hope he has a nice gofundme for a pricey lawyer. ", "Roughly 40% of undocumented immigrants pay taxes, and 100% pay sales tax, gas tax, etc.", "Sweden, Japan, Australia face a small fraction of the illegal immigration that the USA deals with. Also Japan and Australia are Island nations that are easier to monitor. Sweden though? They are harsher than we are as is much of Europe. Its a shitty situation no matter the country, USA is different in terms of numbers alone. We have millions while other countries have thousands and handling this situation will inevitably be ugly....\n\nhttps://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-immigration-crackdown/sweden-intensifies-crackdown-on-illegal-immigrants-idUSKBN19Y0G8", "The visa part has bugged me. If you come here legally in the first place, and you open a citizenship application...so long as you meet the secondary requirements of the Visa (i.e. don't be a dick, be a visa-holder in good standing) and have a valid open citizenship application, you should be able to renew the visa for as long as the process is open. If the process is denied, you can stay until that current visa term is up, if the process is accepted, well, congrats, have cake.\n\nI've never understood why you must leave after being here to come back, even if you try to do it legally.", "Getting into Canada is WAY harder than getting into the states. ", "and that's the answer i'm looking for. i've read a few times about the DREAM Act and how it keeps getting shot down. why is it we can't seem to get this thing in place when it's probably the best option to this whole thing instead of just fucking more people over who don't deserve it?", "This post didn’t go the way OP/management was hoping", "It’s faster for parents and spouses. ", "They are not escorted out of the country at 40 years old after arriving at the age of 10 and having a family and job. Malaysia not exactly the barometer of free western nations.", "Lol", ">pick Germany,Denmark or Sweden to move too\n\nAren't those countries just as difficult to move to?", "If someone isn't paying their fair share of taxes, then the additional burden falls to the rest of us. The wealthy are in a position to avoid taxes altogether while simultaneously being the ones who can most afford to pay higher taxes. The poor can do neither, and yet they're the ones most likely to be saddled with the burden.", "I did go to public school, but let's say their is a war with china. We have 320 million. They have 1.1 billion. If we get into a war, every single one of our guys has to kill more than 3 of theirs. Look to your left. Look to your right. Feel good about those odds? This is an article about us kicking someone out, who by all accounts, shares our values. I am assuming you are going to pick up the slack?", "> It's not meant to be derogatory\n\n\"Illegals\" is certainly derogatory. \"Illegal immigrant\" is much better. ", "It’s a casual comment thread. Welcome to the Internet.\n\nAlso downvotes are like upvotes to me. It means you’re reading what I’ve written.\n\nAnd yes, please do RTFM. Don’t be lazy.", "#THE ", "my heart goes out to his family, but he had 30 years to get legal. 22 years since he was an adult. ", "you arent allowed to apply once you are here. you have to apply from another country. He had no recourse for the decisions his parents made.", "This is terrible but why, in the entire 30 years he has been here, didn't he get citizenship?", "Much buzzword, much nice.", "Yo this is some bullll", "USA has some shithole immigration policies", "Too bad it's a misdemeanor and not a crime. Try again.", "30 years and he couldn't get citizenship. This is his own fault. ", "Just stringing a bunch of words together I see. I’ve seen this before, sigh we’ve got a fucking idiot here guys. ", "Okay so he says his parents just didn't tell him when he became an adult and had NO IDEA he was here illegally...What's to stop any illegal alien from just lying and using that excuse?", "Link to the story. I'm heartbroken ", "Even his taxes are probably paying for this. Sigh...", "Most people on the pro illegal immigration issue are nuts. Every others western nation has requirements to enter their country legally the US is no different.", "Good. ", "So if you knew, you would be OK with moving back to Russia for over ten years while you waited for your immigration status to hopefully be approved? ", "He had 30 years to leave and begain the process of becoming an American citizen. I'll give him the first 10 years because he was 10 and more or less had his hands tied. So let's say any time in the last 20 years he could have turned him self in or left and begain the process of becoming an American citizen. But no he stayed and had a family. Yes I feel bad for his family but they can always vist him. He fucked up by never going though the process. ", "Why don't we just have open immigration? I don't mean no background checks, but Ellis Island-style immigration. The anti-immigrant stance here is pure irrational xenophobia. We have more wealth and resources than any other nation on earth. We could take in several times as many immigrants as we do already and thrive. ", "> Obama's deportations focused on violent criminals\n\nTrump and Obama have targeted very different groups for deportation. In 2010, the Obama administration instructed immigration authorities to focus on violent criminals and those posing national security threats. He refined his directives in November 2014, listing as his deportation priorities: members of gangs; those convicted of felonies or aggravated felonies; and those suspected of or engaged in terrorist or espionage activity.\n\nTrump's action's broad language vastly expands the groups prioritized for deportation. For instance, it adds immigrants who “have committed acts that constitute a chargeable criminal offense” – which is broader than those who have actually been convicted of a crime. Another includes those who improperly use public benefits, which could include letting your children get public-school lunches. The sweeping language means many more immigrants are considered deportation priorities.\n\nhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/05/03/this-is-how-trumps-deportations-differ-from-obamas/?utm_term=.83b915030028", "> Why exactly should we have empathy for people that can't even have empathy for the laws we created\n\nI don't think you understand what the word \"empathy\" means. And it seems like you don't have a grasp of the general concept either.\n\n> He doesn't give half a shit about you or me or anyone else except himself, he doesn't deserve a single drop of empathy.\n\nYou're projecting quite a bit. Just say that you don't give a shit about him. But you have absolutely no evidence that he doesn't give a shit about you.", "Government wise? Agreed. I still think the fact I lied when entering about where I was going and for how long should have at least raised some questions though.\n\nThe people I was talking with though, nah, not at all. These were people I knew and we were in these discussions because of our opposing views.", "Totes, but we can’t use the sum they pay in as justification they’re paying enough. Why should a guy like me (roughly 75k per year) pay 20.7% of my income to federal tax, but the top 1% averages under 15%? \n", "This is where every racist, ignorant person, with no heart, believes in the exact letter of the law. Just because it is a law doesn't mean it is right. These are the same people that would have argued about black using the white fountain, or riding in front of the bus, or women trying to vote, as being fairly punished because it is \"The Law\". \n\nEdit: He paid lots of taxes. Everything he bought was taxed. He could have had an ITIN number instead of an SSN and paid payroll taxes, but not received any of the benefits. There have been quite a few studies that show even illegal immigrants have a net positive on fiscal society. ", "I was thinking the same thing. Saw a story about a refugee that froze his hands and lost fingers, he's still here, don't think we're gonna send him anywhere anytime soon either.", "Exactly! He's a criminal for the rest of his life because of something his parents did when he was a child! ", "It's hard to get citizenship in those 3 countries unless you're very wealthy. ", "This is so depressing.", "You're right, I'm just a little frustrated right now. ", "MLK also fought for union workers and immigrants. Civil Rights includes more than just rights for black people.", ">No, he was a scrapper for actual working class White families like my own that were here since the 1600s. And yes, Nazis are socialists. I fight for the working class man, and working class Germans voted for Hitler! \n\n-Fort_Lauderdale1488\n\nWelcome to Reddit, where people defend racists and Nazis who openly act racist or call themselves Nazis.", "The good news is...soon...we will be able to mine more uranium from our national parks. \n\nIf someone wants to do a go fund me page. I'll start it with $100. ", "Cuz feels ", "So we are all to blame for the bad decisions made by our parents? Do I get to send you to jail if your parents perform an illegal action without your knowledge?", "No I agree with him. You don't wish upon the deaths of others no matter what they believe in.", "So why didn’t he apply for citizenship earlier? ", "If you’re going to conflate getting US citizenship as an illegal Latino with getting a freaking drivers license I’ve got a bridge to sell you.", "Our immigration policy is just so fucking dirty. Seriously, fuck this administration. \n“Family Values”, my ass!", "Yeah they definitely weren't making a glib comment, this is 100% definitely an example of racial discrimination. ", "I also love watching Martin ", "Okay, let's find everything your parents ever did and punish you for it.", "\"Can't fix bad laws or else slippery slope\" ", "It is funny you use fracking as an example because fracking actually made high school drop outs billionaires and others it pays them around 100k a year. Oilfield workers get paid. From the lowest guy to the top dog. ", "Not here. In the real world, we are putting pressure on a Dream Act, which would give a path to citizenship to almost one million Dreamers. Fortunately, the pressure is so immense, that it appears that soon, it will actually become a reality for Dreamers. Even trump is showing his support by demonstrating that he is willing to work with Democrats. Again, on Reddit, I am a nobody. But outside, in the actual world, I am a U.S. citizen whose constantly fighting for what I believe is right.", "This is awful. So very sad that our country is splitting a family. ", "Many of my friends who I went to school with are wealthy. Some of them got jobs that sponsored their green cards and they got to stay in the US after graduation. Some weren't so lucky. Do you know what they did? They left. It was heartbreaking. But as far as I'm aware their parents bank accounts couldn't save them. \n\nTwo excellent friends of mine who are great at what they do just had to return to France because they were freelance and weren't sponsored by a company. So it goes. ", "No amnesty for this guy? That’s messed up. He was forced to move to this country as a child, with no say in the matter. Now he’s forced to leave this country as an adult, with no say in the matter. There is some gray area where you exceptions should be made. I could only hope he is a good husband, father, and a productive member of society; which will make his deportation all that much worse. God speed to him and his family.", "Why would he have been allowed though?", "Nice strawman. What do white collar crimes have to do with deporting an illegal immigrant?", "And an illegal immigrant man. I get that this is sad and him being an illegal isn't his fault, but managing to somehow stay in a country tens of years as an illegal shouldn't be rewarded with automatic citizenship either. It's a fucked situation but blaming Trump for it is ridiculous. ", "Cept people here don't have any logical reasoning except \"my feelings\" ", "Yes, because if you don't, you're going to be kicked out anyways.\n\nits an easy choice.", "\\>We\n\nDon't pretend like it wasn't just the filthy corporate scum that used them for cheap labour.", "You're just butthurt because you got buried harder than King Tut. ", "You can adapt the law to better serve the people. And no, conservatives are just as emotional. Ask them about gun law and watch them freak out. ", "It was not physically possible for him to become a citizen at any time during those 30 years.", "So wha does today’s date have to do with anything? Were Jorge’s American civil rights somehow violated? Is he Black? Thirty years and two kids, how did he last this long? ", "This is heartbreaking", "Lmao. I love how it says \"on mlk day\".... like it's a safe day to get away with violating borders. Why do democrats want open borders so much?", "Well that doesn’t seem right. Come to Canada", "It’s bullshit cuz muh feels>law", "The action is illegal, not the person. There's a difference. Hell, undocumented persons generally aren't even technically criminals, since immigration law usually carries only civil punishments and not criminal ones. ", "And a left wing poll system has him at 40. Therefore, we can assume he's at about 43%. ", ">I'm inclined to disagree. Obeying the law is one of the most important parts of being an american citizen. \n\nAs far as obeying laws regulating relationships with foreign entities, sure. \n\nI don't see how coming to America as a kid even though you were born in Mexico makes you less American, I don't need a stamp to validate my existence in earth. \n \n>It's why federal offenders get their voting privileges revoked. \n\nNope, that was just an attempt to make black people less influential in presidential elections. \n\n>I got lucky enough to be born an american citizen, but I also pay my dues. I obey the law and I pay my taxes. When somebody immigrates illegally, they're not acting accordingly with how an american citizen is supposed to do things. \n\nI've got no problem with it, as do most of America's federal officials. \n\nIt's just being used as a bargaining chip, there's nothing justified about this in anyone's mind, outside of \"nationalists\". ", "So they were in the country illegally.\n\nThey left, before the country found out they were there illegally.\n\nThey applied for legal citizenship.\n\nThe country said \"Lol jk, we actually totally knew you were here the whole time, so you've got to pay this fine\"\n\nIf they leave the country before getting in trouble for being there illegally how exactly would the country know they were there and left at all? ", "Think you can break the law without consequences, WELL THINK AGAIN BITCH WE'RE GONNA MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN ONE DEPORTED ILLEGAL ALIEN SCUM AT A TIME", "so is slavery, genocide and misogyny. Are you promoting that heritage as well? ", "He couldn't, people who enter illegally have to leave to apply no matter how long they've been here, and per deportation rules if you're caught you're typically barred from even starting the ridiculously long process of getting back in for quite a few years. ", "Identity theft is a crime. How do they find employment if they are undocumented?\n\nPersonally, I think employers who hire undocumented workers should be held accountable. I've read numerous news articles where undocumented workers were exploited and not paid fairly.", "You think it is hard in the US? Try Canada, the Scandanavian countries, Japan, Germany, or New Zealand. \n\nHeaven forbid there are consequences for breaking the law. If you don't even enforce the law guess what? People will keep breaking it. ", "Estimates show less than 50% of documented illegal aliens pay income tax. \n\nMany that do pay taxes primarily get put into social security (taxes witheld against an invalid SSN get put into the social security fund) which is not the primary source of federal or state budget funding. \n\n\nhttps://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers\n", "I get it and I agree immigration needs to be changed but let's not pretend it's only America. While doing research on immigration it seems even Canada is harder to immigrate into than America.", "and how is it fair for everyone else legally waiting in line ? Sometimes for a decade or more ?", "I would rather move to Canada or a better place..... ", "> The point here is that he should get a free pass because the law shouldn't be the way it is.\n\nI stopped reading after this comment. Obviously certain people should be exempt because a law should be different, right? \n\nYou shouldn't be cited for marijuana in a state where it's illegal because weed should be legal. \n\nI shouldn't get a speeding ticket on I-5 in Seattle for going 65, because the speed limit should be higher than 60. \n\nLaws are laws, if we don't enforce them what good are they? I agree with you, some laws (including immigration in situations like this) need change...but we either adhere to the current laws or face the consequences when caught. ", "what's keeping his family from going with him? ", "Then why are people constantly coming in illegally?", ">we have more square acreage than the US\n\nHow much of that acreage is livable and not frozen? You might be right yet but there's a reason all of Canada's major cities are southern/along the US border-- it's warmer", "I'm mostly curious, how was this guy never flagged? I mean after 30 years he probably has a job and documents, like a driving license, doesn't it come up that he ain't a citizen and actually an illegal, or was he working under the table his whole life and even when his kids go to school no one checks this? So either he lived here this whole time not paying taxes and has no documents whatsoever and might have droven a car without a license, or the law was indeed not enforced.", "Of course it is what has been happening. They never engage in actual debate. It’s just name calling because they see us as Nazis and lower than human.\n\nWhich is funny because that’s how Nazis thought. So many are filled with hate it’s disgusting.", "Rasist policies maybe. I don't know. ", "Well either you're legal or not. I understand the situation, but if he wanted to do things the right way and follow the rules he wouldn't be in the position he is in. Said to say. In my personal opinion it's fair. Somewhere in those 30 years he was her he should of done what was right and became a citizen. Paid his taxes and been a productive member of society the legal way. Illegal is illegal. ", "Home isn't defined by citizenship or legality, it's defined as where you live and where you feel you most feel a part of the area. I would legally be able to live in Montreal as a Canadian citizen, but it wouldn't be where my home is, my home is the place I've lived ever since I've had memory, the one I still live in. Even though I face absolutely no legal problems whatsoever, to leave the home where I grew up and where my family lives and the prospect kg it happening so soon, in only a few years after some college years, that often gives me nightmares. I was terrified of my parents breaking up as a child, I felt like the home I knew and loved wouldn't be as accessible to me. How could I feel different I was 12 then, now 17 and a half? \n\nTo be uprooted from your home in Mexico like the OP as a 10 year old and go somewhere completely different, speaking a different language, and then treating you like shit just because of where you were born and had the complete lack of control, and valuing you just because of some fucking words in a law buried in a cabinet drawer over where that was makes me sick and makes ICE a despicable organization a group meaning terror, kidnapping and human traffickering to millions. \n\nIf you work for ICE, I ask, are you not embarrassed and running for your life, and are you in the knowledge that I consider it completely acceptable to even kill or wound you from right of self defense of the undocumented migrants if you tried to arrest and deport someone, or were you thrown into having to work there because you had a lack of income? ", "Bummer", "The kids can always go with him.", "He chose to stay in the US for decades. ", "I'm saying that tough immigration law isn't unique to the US and that many countries make obtaining citizenship a challenge.", "Not trying to change the situation by this. Just pointing out that we should stop referring the undocumented as \"illegal\". It's really all I'm saying. ", "There is an automatic 10 year ban that activates to anyone deported. Even if he married it would take another 10 years and there is an extremely high chance his application won't get anywhere. His family will have to travel and visit him or move and stay with him.\n\nWorst part is that he probably has a mortgage, bills, bank account, credit card car note etc that will all go into default. Doing this on massive scale really screws over the economy.", "He broke the law to make a better life for himself, Now everyone is upset that he has to face the consequences.\n\nIf I were to rob a bank I would be breaking the law to better my own life, but would I then get sympathy when I eventually face justice 20 years later? I doubt it.", "It's not fair to assume you learn the local language by 10? Or that a 10 year old knows they're illegally in the country? \n\nHe had family back in Mexico when they came here, that much is in articles. The rest seems pretty safe to assume. Hell, the guy has been asked to self-deport for the last 8 years. As I said, he is well past the point where he is responsible for his life.", "If his spouse is a US citizen or resident, doesn't he have a path to immigration within a year (not citizenship but green card)? ", "It's not a matter of physical space. They'd need housing, medical care, jobs or other financial support, possibly education especially for children, English classes or other help integrating into American society. It's not like during pioneer days when people would just set up on some empty land and become self sufficient, there needs to be a system in place to help them integrate.", "What is written in The Law is not the ultimate arbiter of morality.\n\nFYI, I'm an attorney and I've witnessed the Chief Justice of the Southern District of Florida (a federal court) make exceptions for illegal immigrants due to hardships all the fucking time. It's called compassion, and if you can't understand that his is how actual courts operate, you're being an obtuse cunt.", "You're not .people loved hitler in pre ww2 Germany. Trump not so much. ", "Long Time Hide and Seek Champion Finally Caught\n\nSent home and told to count to 1,000,000,000 until next game starts.", "Anytime my young padawan.", "What took him so long?", "> Making someone go to their state of birth to get their birth certificate from decades back, then making them go to a DMV or similar all in order to get an ID is a different matter entirely. \n\nThese rules are for everyone. They aren't racist. ", "Okay A. I can tell you from experience(i spoke another language as my first language. My primary and best language is english) that being ten and speaking a language doesn't mean its your best language. English by age 18 would be his primary, without an accent either. B. Your really advocating that he pack up and move to Mexico at age 18? Please tell me all about how you would do it/how you yourself did it. \n\nI understand you wanna use the \"well the law is the law even if its a shitty one\" argument but you fail to grasp how thats not a realistic thing that most if anyone would do. ", "LOL how you know he is mexican?", "It was not physically possible for him to become a citizen at any time during those 30 years, regardless of who he is married to (unless he had a lot of money and influence).", "I like the title pointing out that today is MLK day, as if that means anything. This is a tough one. If we're going to enforce deportation of illegal immigrants, we should do it as soon as possible. Did the gov really not know about this guy until now? On one hand, he doesn't pay taxes. On the other, he has been here so long that he has started a family and shit. Get this guy his citizenship so he can start paying taxes and contributing. I'm not sure why there is a segment of society (strongly represented here on reddit) that feels like these people should be protected inherently because they are here illegally. You shouldn't (and usually don't) get to stay here and take advantage of our amazing economy and pay no taxes while sending tons of money back home to wherever. If we're gonna be tough on immigration, we should be tough on immigration. Having long periods of lax enforcement just gives people like this the opportunity to build a life just to have it destroyed when we suddenly start deporting people. ", "There is apparently a law some want to be passed that would make it legal to deport his children that are his by genetics. The stipulation for the law being if one of the parents was here illegally before they had the kids. This whole mass deportation thing is getting out of hand.", "This is a euphemism. These people have documents. Just not the necessary documents to live in the U.S. \"Illegal immigrant\" is fine, imo. ", "People like me? I'm a converted Republican dumb ass, so good call. People like me are why he almost lost but too many idiots refused to defect from the party with this idiot leading the charge. Thanks though.", "Ah I see, my grandparents came over during Reagan so I believe it was different. Sucks for this guy though I can't imagine being in this situation.", "They can do illegal things. Try to think with your mind, not with slogans.", "“But to do that we have to remove all welfare programs.”\n\nSorry man, I don’t live in whatever ‘fuck you, I got mine’ universe that you do.", "Visas sure. \n\nImmigration? It's the other way around. Canada is more strict.", "I wonder if any other parents ever lied to their kids and told them they could live at Disneyland. Nonetheless, this man's parents could have also gone back home with their child.", "He was brought here illegally as a child and thus couldn’t apply. \n\nSo....", "Ugh sure in a bit..all I know is I know white and brown illegal immigrants and the brown ones are nervous about literally everything and the white ones aren't..", "I find this to be embarrassing and unacceptable as a policy to have in place", "His parents brought him here illegally which is illegal. ", "He was here 30 years and never got his citizenship, don't feel bad for him at all. He had years to do it. ", "Dude was here illegally for 30 years. He could have applied for a green card and then citizenship at any point and instead chose top remain an illegal alien. He knew it was only a matter of time until the jig was up and instead decided to do nothing. This guy has likely not paid a dollar in income taxes and contributed nothing to the country. It sounds cold, but he got what he deserved.", "He was ten! Don't think he would have had much of a say in it. ", "Immigration is a large positive. \n\nMass immigration is a negative.\n\nUnregulated open borders are a large negative.\n\nWe love immigrants in America. We are a nation of immigrants. We are the best country in the world because of the brain drain of the worlds best coming to us for the freedom to succeed. But we can only absorb so many a year, and therefore must have reasonable restrictions on who can come, from where, and for what reason.\n\nPeople who break these restrictions should be punished. There should not be a statute of limitations on the punishment. It has nothing to do with hating immigrants at all. It's about border policy that most benefits America and it's citizens. \n\nNo one has a right to enter America. It's a privilege that we provide to a million plus people a year. People jumping line should be sent home. There is nothing hateful about it, it's just good policy.", "Oh don't give me that tired old rhetoric. You're not talking to a whiny liberal twat here. 9 times out of 10 you and I would probably be on the same side of the argument. \n\nHowever, with that said, it is entirely unnecessary to bring race into this. Judging by what you said, you're white. Guess what? So am I. Who cares? What does that matter? All that really matters (if we are speaking about society as a whole) is whether a person is a productive member of society or a fucking leech. The guy in question was obviously not a leech, nor did he come here of his own free-will as an adult. Therefore, I see no reason why he should be expelled from his home and family just because he was brought over the border illegally as a child.", "If you bothered reading any of the comments they explain that he would have been forced to leave America, go to mexico, work for years saving up money to apply for a green card, and then try to apply. \n\nIt's not like he could just walk into town hall and ask for a social security number.", "Did I even once mention parties until you took it upon yourself to blame the Dems then say that I somehow represent that thought that Republicans are the ones to blame?", "American exceptionalism.", "Feelings.", "Yea I know. Bad luck for him.", ">Did he have a SSN and pay taxes on the wages for all that hard work? I just skimmed the article. \n\nWell most immigrants get ITIN number in order to file taxes. Note that must people get taxes extracted from their check automatically anyway. The only ones that wouldn't are the ones paid with hard cash. This is mostly limited to people getting picked up at the corner of Home Depot if that's still a thing. But virtually all agricultural workers, restaurant workers, and workers working under any sort of company would very likely have taxes automatically subtracted from their check.\n\nIt should be noted that a history of paying taxes tends to come into play for people trying to adjust their status. So any undocumented immigrant with want hope of ever being a legal resident is indeed paying taxes.", "[/s]", "He wasn't rich enough to buy that kind of influence.", "So how many years does a person have to not get caught being here illegally before they pass the point of no return? Can that time be shortened by having multiple children?", "https://fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers\n\nThey cost far more than the 12B they contribute. ", "Yes he did. 30 years to work with our system to become legal. I've known plenty foreigners who have done so. I employ 2 from China right now that did it legally (Research Firm). \n\nSo no...you're virtue signalling. This man did this to himself by lack of making the right choices. Sucks for his family but that is on the man being deported and no one else. \n\nAnd why the hell can't I post but once every 10 minutes?! ", "Or a flat across the board tax. If we're all supposed to be equal under the law, shouldn't we be equal under tax law. Eliminate all deductions, and everyone pay the same percent. That's equality. ", "Shouldn't have said \"White Americans\". Prepare to be down voted into oblivion. ", "I don't agree with the policy, but don't be an ignorant fuck.", "Cracking down on illegals is one of the few things trump is doi g right. Too bad he's a fucking dumbass. If he started when he got into office his approval ratings might go from abysmal to sub-par.", "You want DACA? Write your congressmen and tell him to fund the Wall. That’s the deal.", "I know someone with a big family who travels down to Mexico like 3 times a year. I don’t think their parents are very rich either. ", "I totally believe and empathize with the story but can you maybe next time post a link or news headline to confirm what you're saying", "Don't make up a problem that doesn't exist. How many serial killers are there that are trying to come and start families? How many serial killers live trouble free for 30 years in their new home? \n\nThis fear mongering tactic is so cheap and petty. There might be a serial killer living next door to you right now that's just a good ole white boy born and raised in the US. \n\nHow many serial killers are illegal immigrants? Can you give me some stats to prove this fallacy of yours? ", "I'm assuming real, given what I see on other sites and the opinions of real people I know. But it's certainly enough that the people in power have been able to make the world this way.", "That’s the risk someone who lives in a country illegally faces. None of this was a huge surprise. That’s why we have a system in place to enter the country legally, to avoid things like this. \n\nI get the argument that this situation is his parents fault and all, but this is how most nations deter against illegal immigration. ", "Moral of the story: never come into our country illegally. ", ">Well, lets send busses/trains/planes to get all the poor kids from everywhere and bring them to america. Parents as well!\n\nthat's literally how this country was founded and more than likely how your great grandparents got here so yea, let's do that\n\n>Btw how many refugees or illegals do you house? feed?\n\nwe housed displaced katrina victims but they weren't refugees (even tho they were treated like it). if i saw someone who needed refuge, I would take them. If I have, and someone else does not, I try me best to make sure everyone is okay. because ya know, im not a douche\n", "Because there are job opportunities and a chance for a better life in his country. They come here for work mostly. \n\nI don't understand how you are so completely lost here. ", "Your parents not paying for college is a problem. Now can you name one problem that a person who's lived in a country for 30 years is causing? Paying too many taxes? Eating too many patriotic hot dogs? ", "Prove the numbers wrong. I'll wait...", "The hell is reddit narrative?", "They could, but why should an entire family of American citizens have to leave the country because of something the one non citizen family member could not control?\n\nNot aimed at you but more of a general question: What could the dad have done to prevent this? Was there’s anything he could have done to gain legal status? Could his family not have sponsored him like 10 years ago?", "Well that's true but I mean really 9/10 times it doesn't matter what you say at the border. They're mostly checking to make sure you're not about to go blow something up or try and sell drugs. ", "I honestly can't remember. I read up on it after an ama a few years ago. ", ">Well that is a core fundamental of republican ideology. \n\nAnd you're a republican? \n\n>Would you disagree with me that a legal citizen who has only taken from our system and not contributed anything at all is a net negative compared to an illegal that has contributed exponentially more? \n\nOf course I wouldn't. But I don't see how that is relevant to citizenship. ", "Tax money at work! Yay. ", "I-20 is your identification as a foreign student, it has your school info and graduation dates etc. Curricular Practical Training and Optional Practical Training are two different ways of allowing students to temporarily work during and after graduation. It's a complicated system. \n\nFor example, I'm currently on an F1 student visa, I graduated from grad school in December 2016, and I'm currently working with OPT. Normally you only get one year of OPT, since I'm a STEM major my OPT period can be extended to 3 years.", "You realize that Canada is practically impossible to immigrate to unless you have a ton of money right?", "He's not the only one that could've prevented it. ", "Don’t worry about this guy. His head is just too far up his ass. It’s a non-operable procedure I’m afraid. ", "I mean, I’m sure they were doing what they thought was best for their family at the time.", "> Permanent residency doesn't expire\n\nIt's kind of built into the name, even. ;-)", "Because a 10 year old is supposed to know to apply the correct way? So lets just punish this guy as an adult, for what (im assuming) his parents did? Thats fucked up. ", "How do you suppose he paid taxes to \"contribute\"?", "It was. ", "> Taxation is Theft.\n\nNot a big fan of roads, the military, police, fire departments, schools, traffic lights, people who make sure there isn't lead in your milk or rat poison in your cereal, immigration enforcement, parks, libraries, sewer systems, the power grid, standardized air traffic control, or any of the other very important and useful things taxes pay for, are you?", "It was not physically possible for him to become a citizen at any time during those 30 years, regardless of marital status.", "Everyone pays taxes. Sales tax, etc etc. he was never flagged because other than be undocumented, he was an upstanding citizen.", "They’re the ones choosing to be here illegally, they can leave and stop paying taxes any time they choose, just like they chose to come here and chose to stay here illegally. ", "OMG!!! This is so very sad! The free or near free slave labor he provided my and my economy will be missed! I love a life where all the things I need are delivered to every orifice for nearly NOTHING! Shoes, food, beverages, garden care, fast food help, pizza, porn, Uber cars, dry cleaning, table clearing, toilet cleaning, laundry doing, room service delivering, bacon slicing, steer slaughtering, grape picking...car washing, car fixing, car waxing...everything I need as an American is nearly free to me in terms of direct out of pocket costs and as an American I have been trained to construct a society built around price and quantity and the externalities of that process I can not see. So though all of my Halloween decorations are nearly free and my ham is $.0003 a tonne I don't calculate into these prices the fact that if I visit an emergency room in the US of America anywhere I have to wait for 22 hours and the cost will be $39,000 OR THAT I PAY LOCAL TAXES FOR A SCHOOL SYSTEM but I send my kids to a private school....or a decent house in a non crime ridden part of the country is on average $250,000 more than the average house price..But yes this is sad...but I want my cake for free...so I'm sad...but not sad enough to stop me from going to the mall... ", "So why try to make it more fair, eh?", "Well, He is going there and with a family he wont be able to see now", "His family can go with him.", "Once again, that does not mean there will be an automatic 10 year ban.", "Like so many others in Detroit. They will all get along. ", "> illegal immigration sustains itself on tax leech and identity theft\n\nLet's fix those too. Why would I be against that?\n\n> less sympathy for people who do it for free and illegally\n\nYou should always have sympathy for those who suffer at the hands of their parents' decisions.", "If that's what you took from this your an asshole period", "I know, both sides do it. I'm sure a bunch of democrats spite voted because they get called names by their republican families, and vice versa. But I hope half of the voting population isn't that stupid, to vote for someone to spite someone else. I'm sure Trump had policies that appealed to them, in addition to being very verbal to his enemies. ", "Then you would no longer be a tourist and you shouldnt run into any problems with your (now null) tourist visa.", "You give yourself too much credit. He’s obviously known he’s illegal and is reminded of it every time he thinks about traveling anywhere in the world or filing a tax return every year(he can’t). Not only that. This man was brought to the US as a 10 year old child. Think of a 10 year old kid you know and imagine telling him/her that for the next 30 years of his life he’s going to be a second class resident. He won’t qualify for a car or house loan. He cannot aspire to more than work and a weekly paycheck. And then he might be deported to a country he doesn’t know anymore. \n\nThat’s fucked. I know from experience that empathy can’t simply be felt if one hasn’t had a struggle before and that might be the case for a lot of Americans who don’t feel anything or might even feel joy when people’s lives and years of work are thrown out from one day to the next. If only we would stop blaming, scapegoating and pointing the finger at other people for “taking jobs” that were bound to disappear then maybe politicians wouldn’t see these people as a bargaining chips. It’s 11 million undocumented out of 323 million people living in the US. Think about it for a second 11 out of 323. The majority are a productive work force with no criminal record other than crossing the border. Pass an immigration reform for them and put more checks on visa over stays. ", "So what was the guy supposed to do? Genuinely curious about your opinion here.", ">The \"just\" thing to do would have been to leave the country and reenter it legally\n\nNo dude I disagree. The just thing to do is fix the stupid law. He shouldn't have to leave his home and his family. \n\nToday is MLK day. Millions of people broke laws in the name of justice for the civil rights movement. Does that mean nothing to you?", "It’s an expression ", "Good reply def a well thought out argument. ", "Wait 30 years than people will say you had to thieve to thrive ", "So you think anyone who doesn't think we should have open borders and unlimited illegal immigration is a racist? Do you not know what racism is?", "Say we stopped the capital gains tax. \n\nWhere is the incentive to invest your money now? May as well just keep your job. Or pay yourself a million bucks a year out of your company. \n\n\nThings have shifted though. It actually makes more sense to do what I said above than to pay capital gains taxes with the new tax cuts. ", "Yes, I agree, we should let everyone in. I didn't earn my citizenship and neither did you. Go back to the Ellis Island system. No quotas, near-instant naturalization. And situations like this are SO far beyond the line that it's unfathomable to me we even debate it.", "That's where you're wrong ", "This whole fucking thread is filled with explanations why that person is wrong. Do we really need to explain in detail to every single person who makes a fuck-headed statement the reason they're wrong? Is that what we've come to? Don't read the rest of the thread, just make a dumb statement and wait for people to help you.", "It's based on the volume of people coming from that country, among other things. If you're a regular working class person from Mexico for example, you'll likely wait close to 10 years until you're allowed to immigrate. Plus, this guy likely has a ten year bar for being deported, so for him it will probably be more like 20. ", "So because it's MLK day laws don't apply? ", "No matter how long he has been here it's still illegal that he is here and no one ever shows any sympathy for other criminals like drug offenders who have a sickness. So I say if we are going to be tough on all criminals then he deserves nothing different. Send him back as well as any other illegal immigrants, no matter what there age is. If they want to come to a different country they should do it the legal way.", "Well no, that's not what I'm implying. I literally just specified not until he turned 18. Once he turned 18? Yes, that's exactly what I'm expressing.", "Well you're entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully disagree. ", "Do it right the first time and you won’t have to worry about your life being fucked up later on. A life lesson that can apply to pretty much everything. ", "Won't keep people from wanting it both ways. It's a lot easier to complain when you don't look at details and overall big pictures.", "The point is that property rights matter, whether private or national.", " Because he was brought over as a child and had no say so", "but as long as he came here under 16, he's eligible for daca.\n\nhttps://www.immigrationequality.org/get-legal-help/our-legal-resources/path-to-status-in-the-u-s/daca-deferred-action-for-childhood-arrivals/\n\nAm I missing something??", ">Lol but i thought the left said voter fraud didnt exist at all!\n\nNo one said it doesn't exist. What was said is confirmed voter fraud is rare. Not to mention this isn't voter fraud at least if you believe that she didn't know. Fraud requires and intent to deceive. \n\nAlso while the claim that confirmed voter fraud is rare is backup by [facts](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/01/0-000002-percent-of-all-the-ballots-cast-in-the-2016-election-were-fraudulent/?utm_term=.5cd66a3e55b4). The claim of 5.7 million illegal aliens voting in 2008 is back by zero evidence. So feel free to assume voter fraud is a huge issue, but it's not supported by any facts. ", "It was not physically possible for him to become a citizen at any time during those 30 years.", ">happily", "I'm not a fan of Trump, no. ", "Not exactly. Look at DACA. It provides a path to citizenship for those undocumented immigrants who entered the United States before their 16th birthday and prior to June 2007, are currently in school, a high school graduate or be honorably discharged from the military, and are under the age of 31 as of June 15, 2012.\n\nSo there are families of undocumented immmigrants in which some of the siblings qualify for DACA and some siblings do not. Even though the entered he US together. ", "He’s 40. He had plenty of time to find out. ", "Don't lie. We all know you're just a cuck to Donald.", "I hope someone can help this man", "Well, atleast they’re getting the right people...\n Jesus, that is awful. ", "For craps sake, do you have Google?", "Are the laws for this just and the best representation of the ideals of our country? Do you have this opinion because 'that's just how it is' or do you feel this is the best law that could be written for this situation. What do you think we could do to improve this law(s) in your opinion?", "Nono you can't use logic here! Fuck Trump for not personally coming in to give this illegal immigrant man a citizenship for his achievement of managing to stay in the country 30 years unnoticed! ", "The decision is gross. The enforcement so much worse. One day, these people will realize what they've taken part in for a paycheck.", "If the US allowed anyone and everyone in all the poor and sick people around the world would try to get to the US. If they weren't provided with assistance it'd be a humanitarian disaster, I don't think telling everyone \"come on it but you're on your own\" would work out very well.", "Why won't it cut it? Because rich nations don't want to share wealth with the colonialized world?", "There's actual reporting that goes with the picture. You should check it out. This is a person with a life and a story and a family....not totally unlike yourself. ", "Except a majority kind of does. The majority of Americans want DACA fixed and resolved. And plenty of Americans ignore laws they don't like. We pirate software saying it's no big deal, weed has been popular for forever, under aged drinking is okayed by parents. If it's a victimless crime Americans really don't care. ", "OK, but the guy was 10 years old when he was brought over by someone else. It is his parents' fault that he was brought over, not his own.\n\n", "Don't you need a SIN to work in the states though?\n\nEDIT: I mean an SSN for the states.\n\nSo apparently from this [article](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2018/01/15/jorge-garcia-daca-deported-mexico-immigration/1033296001/) courts had him back in 2009 but they let him delay under the previous administration this long... ", "Well calling a shithole country like haiti a shithole is racist to these people so what do you expect. But somehow calling belarus a shithole country isn't racist.", "Every single illegal immigrant has created a crime you dope; show me where they commit more petty crimes. We don't even know how many are in this nation - none the less know how many commit crimes. 100% commit crimes, and the ones caught are all charged with crimes. \n\nYou can't cite a rational study on this because one does not exist because it's impossible to even gather the data given the lack of understanding of the sample size itself. ", "I got the joke. \"Ill eagle.\" Just sick of everyone trying to soften language.", "Well the law is the law, he still broke it for 30 years no matter what his situation was, to me that is worthy of punishment", "Dude....whether or not you agree that immigration laws should be enforced, this shouldn't \"feel good\" to read about. Maybe reevaluate yourself on that. ", "No they are illegal. They are not suppose to be here so stop trying to twist the narrative. He was here illegally so he got deported. ", "I get that but I bet he was told don’t trust police. They will just deport you. Now we know that is just an assumption but if you poor and have a family put money into a lawyer of your baby’s mouth. Dude I understand doing things by the book but is not always so cut and dry. I’m 31 white live in the country and I don’t talk to a cop unless I have to. I been pulled over searched just because I look different. I would hate to be latino. ", "So you have no understanding of US immigration law. Got it.", "As a socialist you should be knowledgeable of how racial tensions have historically been used to divide and weaken the working class.", "No he's an illegal. If anything this says thaf ICE sucks at their job.", "But he was in the country illegally since he was 10. Did he have a family to sustain and children to raise since then? What about when he was 18 and could make his own decisions? What about when he turned 21? He could have left then and came by legally.\n\nOr did he choose to have children and start a family while in a country illegally, knowing that the punishment for breaking the law would be to be taken from them if he was discovered.", "Hur dur TRUMP. Duh duh MAGA. \n\nNot only do these fucksticks think they have something to say, they actually fucking vote. Blech. ", "Precisely. He's a criminal because of something that a family member did when he was 10.\n\nMakes perfect sense!", "disgusting, I am so ashamed to be an american, especially this past year.", "So we’re cunts but you guys deport a guy that’s been there for 30 years through no choice of his own?\nI’ll sit here and enjoy my free healthcare and enjoy a Trump free country.", "You can’t if you are an illegal immigrant ", " God forbid we put morality over legality", "Whooooosh goes the goalpost.\n\nE: lol downvotes but no arguments, trumpies gets triggered a lot when you point out their dishonesty", "South of Detroit", "Education for his children. ", "I'm from Massachusetts, and the beginning part of Obamacare was actually Romneycare (after Mitt Romney) when he was in Massachusetts. ", "When he was ten. He'd have had to have left when he was ten, wait until he was eighteen, then begin a long and expensive process that he would not have been able to be accepted into. There was never a hope of him becoming a legal immigrant.", "I enjoy enforcing laws. I’ll sleep fine. ", ">All immigration should work such that if someone can live in your boundaries for 12 months and still be alive then they win, clearly they are established without \"help\". I'm sorry but realistically, they aren't a threat \n\nMohamed Atta arrived in the US in June 2010. ", "Well gees. Why can't they just cross the border and stay like Dad did in the US?", "this is BULLSHIT.. poor fucking guy", "* The proliferation of gangs like MS-13. \n\n* Exploitation of illegal workers who fear being deported. \n\n* Lowering of wages because immigrants will work for less. \n\n* Challenging the influence of labor unions because of the above point \n\n* Large numbers of people living under the government’s radar\n\n* Increased poverty because illegal immigrants don’t qualify for certain or all benefits\n\nI can keep going. There is a reason that immigration laws exist. It’s not just to be mean to people. Let me know if you want more. \n\n", "Yea. I heard these interrogations are very nosy and they would ask even how many times you have sex. ", "People leave the country for fun. He had a more compelling reason than fun to leave the country, yet didn't. By the way, I'm an American living in a foreign country right now. It's not unbearable.", "ikr, it's a good thing our founders immigrated all the way from Europe to save us future generations from those immigrants.\n\n/s", "Would every other country let an illegal/undocumented person stay? Does canada? How about the UK? Why cant the narrative become \"what does mexico need to do to have its people want to stop fleeing north\". Reddit loves canada.. if he manages to sneak through the US and into Canada, will they let him and his family stay, if he works? Thats how they handle immigration, right? ", "Horrible. ", "His home? He was an illegal squatter", "Identity theft is a crime. How do they find employment if they are undocumented?\n\n", "That sounds like a good defense ", "It's more of a family in a cycle of making poor decisions. His parents made a poor decision to move here illegally and it eventually screwed his life up. Now thirty years later, he never took the steps to get a green card and on the path to citizenship and now he is screwing up his children's life. Is this really the kind of people we want immigrating here??\n\nWe have enough people who live here legally making poor decisions, I don't think we need to import any more.", "Not to be a dick but if he was here illegally not supporting America through work and taxes, couldn’t his family join him across the border and in ten years attempt to return legally?", "Ok, then go through the proper channels. ", "Not convinced all from US. I notice the times more posts are done are more off hours in the US.", "My username is simply humor. I don't hate white people. I know many white people who don't hate me. My girlfriend is white. I don't demand them to leave my country, the United States of America. I don't demand an entrance ban for those who identify as \"white\". I'm not in support of splitting white families because my partisan ideals demand it.\n\nBesides, it's \"White People Hate Me,\" not \"I Hate White People.\" :)", "You're an idiot. Plain and simple, your argument doesn't even make sense but you are using it to justify making a guy do years of hard labor. His \"peers in Mexico\" won't be any more deterred to do what he did because all he did was follow his parents into America. He couldn't even understand immigration law at that age and definitely couldn't survive without his parents as a ten year old. \n\nWhat did he do to justify hard labor for years? Trying to have a better life without harming anyone?", "I started as a labor hand. I am now an analyst 4 years later. Hard work pays off. ", "Canada is strict, America is racist. Hmmm...", "But he was TEN YEARS OLD when he came here. We don't currently expect a minor to do anything for themselves in this country so how could we expect him to 1) leave his family and 2) flee alone back to Mexico, of all places? \n\nAnd if you think he should be punished for the sins of his father, then there are many people out there who should be in jail. ", "You do not need to leave for a pardon. I know of several people who have done it without leaving. They are residents now.\n\nI don’t know if it’s a new development. But i think some people have just been sleeping on the wheel. Spotless record, wife and children with citizenship status should b enough to get him a pardon and starting the green card process. Wasted opportunity.", "I’m not sure why you’re trying to turn this into a Trump thing, because it’s not. This agency and the deportation of illegal immigrants has been going on in this country for a very long time. ", "Wtf", "It’s almost...almost as if....people are upset over the breaking of the law, and care more about the letter of the law, and less so for harmless people the law is poised to ruin.", "Tell that to the Native Americans.", "> What good does this do to anyone? What benefit is served here? \n\nThe basis of the legal system is that you can tell what the laws are and they get enforced equally. The laws may benefit from improvements, but enforcing them as written is useful in itself.", "And why exactly have you decided this human being is evil? ", "They could, at the expense of their already established lives in the U.S, and who knows if they even speak Spanish.", "People crossing illegally, communists, and terrorists?", ".... the dude has been here for decades. He knew full well that any day he could, you know, have the law enforced. He took zero action to address his known legal issues. ", "3 months? Shit that’s a lot of time , especially if rent is relies on that income. Not to mention the time it’ll take to get the document needed to apply for that VISA. And fuck him if he doesn’t Speak Spanish Miho. Then there’s the fact that he would get strayed up denied? Zero guarantee? \n\nDoesn’t make sense for someone like him to not have an easier path to get citizenship. He’s already in a comfortable position to make contribution to the country, and he shouldn’t affect the quota since he has been and should be already counted in the population. ", "Boy sure hope he's never traveled to Europe or something then huh?", "You're right, let everybody in and hope they pay their taxes otherwise America isn't so great anymore.", "> Son of a legal, poor immigrant from South America btw\n\nThanks for the unimportant tidbit you felt the need to include to try and validate a terrible analogy.\n\nLegal and poor ? Let’s call that bullshit", "Kay don't feed the homeless then ", "Go ahead, offer them a paid stay for the estimated cost of back taxes with the same penalty anyone else in this country would pay. If that would make you happy, it would make me happy too.\n\nThey would all leave.", "I hope his parents aren't still here, can you imagine how they feel being the cause of all this... ouch.", "Neither is the US. He never cared to become a citizen ", "Can you really rationalize that? Anything is for anyone to steal as long as you’re poor/ hungry? How fucking retarded are you to make such a stupid statement? ", "Will he still be able to run the fried chicken joint he bought with his lottery money?", "How do you do all of those things you mentioned without a social security card? You'd be surprised that the IRS won't release the numbers on stolen identities because they are embarrassed by how many people's identities have been stolen. Wonder who the main culprit is? Illegals. It is not being racist, to be against people that have ruined other hard working Americans lives because they did not follow the laws. Not only did not follow the laws but exploited the laws to their benefit. Fuck outta here ", "Why is it the immigrants' fault that some farmer takes advantage of their labor for less than a fair wage?", "Okay.\nDo\nYou\nHave\nEvidence", "I'm not taking a stance on immigration. Simply adding information. ", "This guy was dragged here when he was a child. He didn't have a chance to do the right thing. ", "Can you also agree that this land was not originally ours? And that we illegally killed off and moved the native population? And that we started an illegal and under false pretenses war with Mexico to illegally force them to sell their land at pennies of what it was worth? Can we agree that Abraham Lincoln, famously said, “show me the line” when the conflict started because he did not believe for a second that Mexican troops fired into the USA, but rather the US troops crossed into Mexico with intent to engage in order to start a war? So let’s put that in perspective. I’m not suggesting we give the land back. I’m saying stop saying we have some moral authority to say this land was ours and legally obtained, because it wasn’t. Ever read “The night Thoreau spent in Jail”? It’s about him refusing to pay the tax to pay for the Mexican- American because it was clear to everyone that we did it to force them to sell us the land. We went and killed Mexicans, shed their blood, then we said we will pay you 1 penny for every 100 square miles of land and give us your land because we just killed a whole bunch of you for it and you lost (I’m making up that figure, but it wasn’t for much).\nSo wanna start talking fairness in entering a land that was once their birthright? \nSure you can claim the right of conquest, but if I come kill you and take your shit, and throw a dollar at your wife and kids and kick her out of the house, I think you might have a problem with the legality of the conquest due to the fact I had a better gun than you did and I took the first shot.", "Is it possible to be undocumented and legal then?", "It's not my responsibility to pay for someone else's parents mistake through my tax dollars. It's also extremely immoral to let him stay when others came here legally.", "Gotta have a legal entry to apply for citizenship. No exceptions. ", "Being forcibly separated from his wife and kids isn't punishment? You should probably go fuck a blender. ", "He's barred for 10 years. Clock can reset for him in 10 years. He can't even re-enter the U.S. for a decade.", "Ugh there’s gotta be a line drawn somewhere. This guy probably hardly knows the place he’s from, aside from childhood memories. They’re just uprooting him and thousands of others like him. It’s so frustrating to see :(", "For sure. And at the top levels now it's a big blame game. I would suggest a compromise along these lines:\n\nPath to citizenship for DADA recipients. But without sponsorship/chain migration rights. \n\nReal immigration enforcement. That means a wall or more to point the type of border enforcement that the wall symbolizes. Real border control. No more illegals flowing in, however that is accomplished. Also deportations of non-DACA people who commit crimes. \n\nSimple as that. But the Democrats won't go for that in a million years because they are heavily dependent in many states and in the electoral college on Hispanic voters who have illegal immigrant relatives. That's the sticking point imho. ", "You're right about Parole in Place, my bad. \n\nIt's my understanding that wave-through entries (Quilantan/Areguillen) are considered lawful entries. ", "All they have of me on record was going in saying I was spending the day in Vermont. Next they hear from me is 6 or so months later and I've been in Louisiana the whole time. I don't know, I'd be suspicious haha\n\n", "Nothing you can do to become a legal citizen when you're already here illegaly", "I appreciate your sentiment.\n\nHowever, population is likely skyrocketing due to lack of birth control than anything else. As well as the fact that people are too scared of deportation to leave ever (I know it sounds strange, but its true!)\n\nAlso if you care about legal immigrants, I'm guessing you also support making it easier to be legal right? No? Huh..", "So you had 30 years to get right with the government and you said nah I'll do it someday\n", "He can only return if he receives a government request of return. This would mean if the president, governor, senator, or a higher ranking military official. That is during his ban term.", "He's an illegal immigrant. Good.", "Oh, you mean like giving presidential pardons to men who have flagrantly and unashamedly broken the law?", "Right, somehow the word \"entitlement\" got changed to mean \"handout\", when it's not.... The budget is broken down to required expenditures, like SS/Medicare, that people paid into, you know: You are \"entitled\" to your own money back. These should be left out of voluntary budget discussion.", "You know what? I was being an asshole because I expected a certain type of person to read and respond. That was extremely shitty of me. I apologize. I mean, I feel the same about the subject, mostly, but I do care about that man and his family and what happens to them.\n\nI think my dad brain chose to focus on the fact that he had a kid when he knew better and it kinda fucked his family. If my mom were sitting here right now she would remind me to remember that he’s still a person with a family he loves very much and they’re going through this with him.\n\nEdit: to finish my point, it’s a stupid situation all around. I hope the man finds his way back to his family the right way as soon as possible. He did the right thing in not expecting them to come with him. I respect that. ", "[Here](https://i.imgur.com/7L2DjUn.jpg)\n\n> Soooo you are both a corporate lawyer and immigration lawyer?\n\nIgnoring the part where I said my pro bono work is immigration?", "Actually, yes it does. For USA, that age is 11.", "You can't do that", "This is why reddit is terrible. This guy had 30 years and he couldn't get citizenship. This is his own fault. ", "And you can join them", "What about being forced to against your will and sent there with no safety net and nobody you know?", "And?", "> He cannot reapply for 10 years.\n\nSource?", "Just read it, that seems to only be the case if they have been present for less than a year. \n\n> (B) Aliens unlawfully present \n> (i) In general Any alien (other than an alienlawfully admitted for permanent residence) who— \n> (I) was unlawfully present in the United States for a period of more than 180 days but less than 1 year, voluntarily departed the United States (whether or not pursuant to section 1254a(e) [3] of this title) prior to the commencement of proceedings under section 1225(b)(1) of this title or section 1229a of this title, and again seeks admission within 3 years of the date of such alien’s departure or removal, or \n> (II) has been unlawfully present in the United States for one year or more, and who again seeks admission within 10 years of the date of such alien’s departure or removal from the United States, \n> is inadmissible.", "Rasmussen is right wing? I'd never heard that. Legitimately thought they were middle ground and respected.\n\nPoint is though, he's not under 40 as you claimed.", "Isnt there a law that naturalizes you if you have lived here over 15 years?", "Do you think laws were handed down to us by god, never to be amended, removed, or annulled?\n\nLaws are merely an attempt to apply common morality to all members of a society, and as societies change so too should their laws.", "Because it used to be legal, but the law changed to make it illegal without the people to whom the law applied doing anything. \n\nA butterfly flapped its wings.", "Even without a work visa?", "But he isn’t an American. He had 30 years to become one but didn’t.", "Yea, why bother trying to reason with people who disagree with you when we can just stay in our echo chamber and continue thinking everyone who doesn't think like us is brainwashed. You know, like what healthy adults do.", "HE broke the law? How? By existing? Seriously. He broke federal law at age 11 by... what... by not recrossing alone into Mexico!?", "What if he married a citizen!? One time exception for extenuating circumstances...his wife would understand... maybe?", "Being a Jew was illegal in Europe not too long ago too. What's your point?", "It was bad then too", "Similarly, did he have no ID/SSN/Passport the whole time he was here? ", "I have a question. Hopefully I won’t get hate. It sucks he’s getting deported but, after 30 years in a country you basically grew up in, why did he never try to get a legal citizenship? Why? Again I feel for him and his family, but I still feel less compassion for something he could have avoided. Am I wrong in saying this?", "If youre going that route, then you should look at European history", "That explains it. Tribal land isn't technically part of the US. So long as she doesn't leave said tribal land, it may not even be illegal to be there, documented or not. I'm not certain on that, though.", "if there are cartels killing people every day in the streets and you want to get out asap would you visit a library first?", "If they receive a paycheck where taxes are taken from, how did they get said job if undocumented?\n\nMore than likely there are using another persons identity and can still file a tax return.", "Yeah and I'm a brain surgeon. All I'm missing is a fake diploma.", "You realize “undocumented” is the “politically correct” term, right? Holy shit LOL ", "HE COULD NOT. He had no path to citizenship or even legal residence.", "What are you guys planning to do?", "That's his quickest way to get back to his kids, for sure. But it also means if he gets caught he gets charged criminally in federal court. First time offense (with no prior criminal history) is 0-6 months. If he's willing to take that chance, then by all means. Penalties go up significantly if you are charged criminally a second time. ", "The same reason you don't fill out a police report with 10 pounds of cocaine on your person.", "As a Canadian, bs. We're no different. ", "“Fuck laws and borders and shit.”", "You cannot apply for citizenship while in the country illegally.\n\nHe would have had to leave, save up money, apply for a green card, and wait several years to see if he was accepted. ", "Lmfaooo criminal scheme? Danm Nigga MLK must’ve been an OG then. ", "I mean, there’s a lot of nice Spanish speaking countries too. I’d probably try one of those places first.", "Uh, what? The guy was brought over the border illegally when he was a child. It's not like he deliberately walked outside one day and decided to go on a crime spree. It's very different.", "Fucking bullshit. Fuck Trump.", "I have plenty of family who immigrated legally. It’s not as hard as you’re making it seem. Countries need border laws. It’s a shame here but it’s the law. He broke it, had 30 years to rectify it, and took a chance. ", "Imaginary lines on land and selection of who can enter is actually quite arbitrary, yes. I'm not trying to say that we shouldn't have these things, but acting like we must enforce these rules to the utmost extent - even when that involves ripping apart families of decent people - is just stupid and short-sighted. ", "How is it bullshit. He is an illegal immigrant and was deported per the law.\n\nIs it bullshit if I go to Canada illegally and start a family and they deport me?", "It's the irony that on MLK day we still see injustices like this example. ", "good bot", "Do you honestly believe the only reasons for immigration laws and border enforcement are racism and xenophobia?", "He rolled the dice for 30 years. That’s his fault. He should have went back when he was old enough and did it the right way.\n\nTry being illegal in Mexico.", "This.", "This is completely fucked. Wow.", "There is no method of doing that", "I guess you hate money because wages would drop instantly. Except for the 1% who would laugh there way to the bank in their gated communities and armed guards.", "Because that is the country he is from and is a legal citizen of ", "The voter turnout of this election was pretty average as far as elections go. About the same number of people voted for Trump as did previous presidents. Use your noggin a little harder. ", "I didn't imply that. My point is that there is no path to citizenship for him considering his situation. He would need to leave the country and apply.", "https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_of_removal", "So you're suggesting that we bring people here to work but give them no social benefits? That seems much worse than keeping people out. Especially if you're not saying we should give reduced wages to these immigrants. \n\nIt's unreasonable to prop up our country on their wages then kick them out if they get sick, injured, unemplyed, etc. It's just unreasonable that it could be pulled off anyways, tons of benefits naturally have to go to everyone.\n\nI think you're trying to partially walk back your open border statement because everyone is skewering you over how bad an idea it is.", "So the people doing their job is the one in the wrong sorry the real world isn’t your liberal fairy tail land but this is how the world works I’ve had friends who come here legally get fucked by the system and deported for breaking no laws and coming here legally visa/ green card the works but he got deported back to France after living here his entire life. So you bet your ass I want the laws changed but I want them changed to stop fucking the people who didn’t break any rules. So if that’s not gonna happen why should I give a fuck about people who broke laws to come here and had ample time to figure out how to fix rather than wait for this day. ", "Shitty presidents like trump are why people upvote these threads.", "We must have a test, absolutely. Isn't birth literally the dumbest possible test? Why not based on military service, critical needs (i.e doctors) and actual citizen involement? Why do we kick this guy out, but people who literally pledge loyalty to nazis (i.e. the army of our actual enemies that killed actual American boys) get to stay? Wouldn't it make sense to evaluate every 5 years or so, and only keep people that help the country prosper?", "Thanks, this is terribly insulting.", "Good go move to Haiti", "It was not physically possible for him to become a citizen at any time during those 30 years.\n\nI agree he should have been able to apply. However, he was, and is, barred from doing so. While I don't like to see people immigrate illegally, tearing apart a family is never going to make matters better.\n\nI'll go one step further and say he likely would have been willing to pay fines or community service or other punishments in exchange for the illegal acts of his parents. But deportation makes everyone lose.", "Maybe it’s because they’re not separated by an ocean and can simply walk next door?, but I don’t know that almost sounds logical.", "I’m sure that has a lot to do with large populations and the number of major companies that have set up shop in those well to do states. This still doesn’t dispute my original post that those states would benefit from illegal immigration more than most other states.", "Yeah I feel great about where I'm at already, and I keep trying to learn new things on and off the job so that I become an invaluable asset. Clocking in and clocking out just doesn't cut it.", "I don't think the student visa is an immigrant one.", "I’m not pretending anything. I was giving an example of how immigration laws can be used for good, and this post illustrates the bad. I don’t want a completely open border, it’s a much more nuanced issue than that.\n\nOne of the first things Trumps administration did was suspend our refugee programs. The last year under Obama we accepted more refugees than we had in 20 years. Under Trump, that number has plummeted. Not to mention his constant racist vitriol against Mexicans. We’ve gone completely backwards. \n\nhttps://www.google.com/amp/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/30/key-facts-about-refugees-to-the-u-s/%3famp=1\n\n", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsaTElBljOE", "But they'll take their time deporting criminals and illegals who hide and never work? Good job.", "I appreciate you putting the effort in, but these people are morally bankrupt. You’re wasting your energy trying to teach someone like this how to be human. If they don’t see the problem here, they’ll never become aware of their failures to humanity.", "But the kid was ten years old and brought here against his will. Of course he grew up and built a life here, but it's impossible to become a US citizen while actually living in the US under his circumstances.\n\nI agree they should come legally, but in this situation the kid had no option to do so. His parents chose for him.", "They pay income tax. Source - Myself and a whole other illegals I know ", "That's nice but what does that experience have to do with people like Jorge who had no choice in the matter?\n\nAlso, stop acting like your opinion is more valid somehow because you have an immigrant parent. My mom is a legal immigrant and I am not throwing her name all over for my arguments.", "That's what happens when you can't see past skin color to the people underneath. You think EVERYTHING is about race.", "Sure. It's one thing to object to calling it \"stealing\" or even the term \"piracy\". But not even the most brazen pirates would deny that the word 'illegal' applies when they violate the law. The whole point is that it's factual.", "There's dozens of other people telling him what's wrong. Plus I personally don't know the full details. My mother is an immigrant from Africa and I was lucky enough to get naturalized since I came over when I was 6. I understand it was a hard process from the few times we've spoken about it. I didn't want to spread miscommunication, yet I could not let him shit talk a father who he has no idea about the circumstances. It struck a nerve", "I’ve actually met Obama on four separate occasions (all before the presidency but during and post Senate run). Not even close to what I would call a friendly guy. So, yeah, piece of shit.\n\nHere’s a shocker too. Bob Keeshan (Captain Kangaroo)...huge douchebag. You need to know these people off camera to see who they really are.", "Just because something is a net positive for the country as a whole doesn't mean it hurts no one. Yes, illegal immigration hurts certain people, more specifically unskilled workers, a group which black people are over represented in.", "Yes, so those who have been here working legally, paying taxes, and forming families for all that time are getting fucked.", "Why do you have this sense of entitlement? You were born here BY CHANCE. Hell, the only reason you live and breathe is by chance. No one chooses to be born and no one chooses where they are born. \n\nIf someone forced you to pass some stupid test to prove you deserved to stay here, and youd be exiled if you failed, how would you feel? Why are you so selfish? Are you somehow struggling because of these people? Who put this philosophy into you? ", "Bring him and his family here to Canada. We're still sane here.", "Agreed. He is a Mexican, never has he been an American.", "I'd be with you on that one... and if they ever found me and tried to deport me again, i would basically say \"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. I'll be back here in my home very soon.\"", "No, just vote them out of office and never give them any sort of power ever again.\n\nThe entire party structure must be annihilated. ", "Deport that illegal ", "Sounds like he had plenty of time to work things out but decided to instead be a criminal. Glad he’s gone. ", "I got curious and looked up how much you need to make a year to be in the 1% in the nation and it’s actually $389,436 pretax. \n\nhttp://www.businessinsider.com/top-one-percent-every-us-state-2016-11", "You do realize he was brought here by his parents at the age of ten, right? I’m sure if you’d been in his shoes you’d have stopped short of the border and lectured your parents about the virtues of the American immigration laws until they saw the light. Then you’d all just mosey into Tijuana and get jobs at a car wash.", "If they're his kids then they're legally Mexican citizens as well. They may have to go to a consulate to get the paperwork for a Mexican passport but they are citizens of Mexico.", ">rather than returning home\n\nthe U.S is is home. you seem to think he has something to \"go back\" to in Mexico, when he very well may not. yes, you're right, we must have a test for citizenship, but that doesn't mean we can't make that test nuanced enough to account for situations like this, instead of just going \"oh well boo hoo his fault anyways\" ", "Obviously a \"bad hombre.\" /S\n\nLook, how about we trade for him? I'm willing to let go of about 100 of the tiki torch carrying guys in exchange for him.", "You're literally comparing apples to oranges. Fuck off you fucking 13 year old.", "Because I'm sure as a ten year old he really had a choice in coming here.", "It's the millions needed to have the secret service secure a golf course.", "You can't when you're already here illegally. ", "you, people", "They should just speed up his process of applying for citizenship or at least temporary visa. But automatically rewarding him with citizenship isn't right either. ", "I’m confused, this person has been living in the states for 30 years and has not gone through the process of becoming a citizen? \n\nEdit. Just read the most current comment which other people answered same question as mine. ", "How? Is he using someone else’s SSN illegally? Or is he getting paid under the table? Just wondering how an employer would legitimately do that on the books with an illegal hire. ", "You're punishing the people who brought him here. He's just collateral damage.\n\nSucks to be him, but he should be pissed at his parents, not the government.", "Deport that illegal ", "What's that, enforcing the law? Yea thats what they signed up for.", "He paid taxes. \n\nI guess you're just too emotional to read that.", "Have you heard of the Oedupal mother ? https://youtu.be/EPAfS8-wm8g", "He said we should deport the Haitian and El Salvadorans currently with TPS because they're from shitholes and let more people from Norway in. \n\nWhy does the fact that Haiti and El Salvador have a less stable government or shittier economy mean we should delort Their people (who are already here, btw)?\n\nBecause the economic state of Haiti vs Norway as a \"shithole\" is irrelevant to the desirability of their people as American citizens, the shithole thing has to be getting at something else, if not economic and political stability. It's getting at the race of these immigrants. Otherwise Trump's comment is a complete non sequitor\n\nStop defending the indefensible. I'm sure there were people like you defending bull o Connor turning on the hoses against King.", "I'll take actual science, i.e. empirical studies that prove otherwise. Besides, none of your figures account for the estimated 30+ million illegals. \n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtArfdYjQ4w", "There's no pathway to legal status for someone like him.", "To bad so sad. Not America’s fault. It’s his parents fault for bringing him here. I feel for the family but the law is the law and he has to go back to his parents home land. Time to start setting examples, enough with making America into a shithole with illegal immigration. My family had to go through so much bullshit just to come here legally.", "Sounds kinda like a shithole...", "See my other answers but, no. It’s more nuanced than that. ", "Guess you are the perfect dictator’s puppet, blind followers of unjust laws.", "Mb that was terrible", "sins of the parents? He broke the law when he was 10 too by coming in. ", "He’s not American. It’s not an ignorant law. It’s commonplace to be deported from any country if you’re here illegally. Sorry to hurt your feelings ", "The problem with making it legal for him to stay is it sets a dangerous precedent. Do we make it a one time amnesty and face the same problem 20, 30 years from now? Or do we make it permanent that illegal immigrants can bring their children here and they're automatically legal? How does this work without causing a flood of illegal immigration?\n\nI totally understand your empathetic view on this and this is a hard topic. We haven't found a solution now in something like 50 years of this issue because it's such a hard topic. Lines need to be drawn somewhere though.", "That's a sadly oversimplified view though. There are basically 2 budgets, one is required entitlement spending: People are entitled to their own money back because they paid it in directly. And voluntary budget, of which Military is around 57% of, and that's what matters.", "It's almost as if he got legal status he wouldn't be deported.... Huh.\n\nNo empathy for him. ", "Has he been evading taxes for 30 years?", "You make a home. You don't settle in one. I pity the fact that you don't know that.", "You got to go back. Took them too long. ", "> It isn’t that black or white.\n\nYet earlier you said:\n\n> an immoral law is no law to be followed\n\nSo which law is so immoral that it is not to be followed? The one that says people can't enter without permission? Or the law that says people who enter illegally are to be deported? Or some other law?\n", "Right, and I'm not debating that. But according to the process/law, it doesn't matter if he was 1 or 60 years old, or if he came here on his own accord. Very unfortunate, especially if he was a contributing member of society.", "You've fallen for some bad propaganda, dude.", "> Why doesn't it make sense? Are we a sovereign nation or are we just \"imaginary lines on a map\"? if the latter, then why have borders at all?\n\nBorders are certainly imaginary. I have left the country and I've never seen any giant border lines. This doesn't mean there can't be nations though, they just need to behave justly like everybody else. Anyway, the analogy doesn't make sense because the ethics for managing a country and a theme park are not the same. What is appropriate for one may not be for the other. For example, I think it is OK to make your own Catholic school (or theme park), but I don't think it is OK for the US To make all the public schools Catholic schools, even if 51% of people support that. Why? Because we have freedom of religion no matter how many people would prefer it otherwise. Even if an amendment was made that removed freedom of religion, I would still say its OK for people to violate that new bad law. Ethics > Laws, and that concept is part of the founding of America, even though it wasn't enforced fairly for a long time. \n\n> The rights you mention in the second paragraph only apply to citizens of the country \n\nYou are correct. The point I was trying to make is that the citizens of the nation, even if they are the \"owners\", can't just do whatever they want. I think that even above the law, there are ethics that we need to follow as people. Its just like how people talked about God given rights when they wrote the declaration of independence. I think its wrong to kick this guy out, even if it was illegal for him to stay. The law is wrong. \n\n\n> As I said earlier, treat this man like the victim of human trafficking that he is, and he gets to stay.\n\nWait, you support this guy getting to stay? I guess we can agree on that. I don't think its fair to compare parents who want their kids to have a good life to some sort of despicable child trading. It seems like a pretty sympathetic cause to me. For all you know they were running from violent gangs in their nation, and let's not forget that part of the reason a lot of those countries are so dangerous is bad US drug laws and US citizens who buy from these gangs. Its kind of messed up to prop up these terrible organizations in other countries and then not let people flee to safety. We don't know if that is why he came though, so that point may not be relevant here. ", "$1000 to apply plus all the extra time and money to jump thru all the hoops get quite excessive", "Because of legal priorities.", "If it's because of war, then that's what the refugee program is for. If it's for shitty economic conditions, then tough shit, there's no reason Central Americans ought to be given preferential status in illegally immigrating to the country when so many other people are trying to do so legally.", "Hence the wall, so this shit stops happening. The law isn't the problem, its the criminals breaking it. ", "Choir boy because I’m not a thug? You must’ve come from one of those shitholes. Better stop talking or Mommy might get deported.\n\nSo the thug calls me a “dumbass” because I don’t break laws? \n\nLOL - the modern left.", "Yeah, your examples suck. He's talking about individuals breaking the law rather than corporations or what ever you want to say was the problem for the economy. ", "I’m not celebrating him being kicked out at all, I feel for this man and his family his parents did him a horrible disservice. \n\nI’m condeming the fact that people are saying because he’s a good citizen the law needs to be changed. He had 30 years, he knew for 30 years that this could happen at any moment. You can’t be surprised when it does happen if you haven’t taken steps to stop it. ", "What a shit analogy.", "Should fall on states rights. I’m tired of people in the Midwest telling me people who I know working 90 hours a week are a detriment on our society. America to me is a meritocracy. No one is inherently better than someone else by the virtue of where they were born", "So anyone who can sneak in and stay long enough gets to stay for life? Why Fuck that. We do t need to encourage more illegal immigration. And fucks like you are the problem, saying it’s justified to kill someone who is enforcing the laws of the country. ", "There's no pathway to legal status for someone in his situation.", "I would also like open borders thank you very much, why do you think states should be able to control where people are allowed to live and work?", "Sure, assuming he knew someone in his original country, spoke the language, and could find a job there. He had been in the US since he was 10. Emigrating to another country is hard in the best of circumstances, and being able to come back legally would be by no means guaranteed.", "This country of ours can be so fucking stupid.", "By that rationale, any law that you disagree with can be ignored. And your defense will be, \"I don't believe it is a just law.\" And you will lose your case.", "Typical liberal logic: Laws = hate.", "A man was in the country illegally. He broke the law. I don't know where you gor weed from.", ">If your parents sneak into disney land \n\n>is it the country\n\n>or the parents\n\nWho are you choosing to blame?", "What was the U.S. population when the poem that was put on the statue of liberty was written?\n\nWhat is it today?\n\nSo you were not related to those Katrina victims? Didn't know them beforehand? ", "That makes them smart, right?\n\n/s", "Just wanted you to know that you are a racist piece of shit. I hope karma catches up to you and everyone like you.", "BOOOOOM ", "Yea fuck trump for making sure the rules put in place by our elected officials are enforced.", "i can't read your mind. if you have something to say, say it.", "He had 20 years ", "BYEBYE", "If by \"average immigrant\" you mean illegal migrant, then yes they do have a negative effect on society. The fact that they are in the US illegally is crime, that we have people just flouting the law like that is detrimental to society. It's like \"Broken window theory,\" one illegal or disorderly act compounds and leads to more and more. It's not solely the individual migrant to blame for creating this negative effect, it's also the system that has allowed such a massive violation of the laws to take place. \n \nIf there was just free and unfettered migration into the US, such that anyone could just come in legally, at what point would the average immigrant start to have a negative effect on society?", "Yeah if you enter legally then you have a lot more options available to you. If you entered illegally though then its really hard. I am assuming his wife is a citizen though since she got to stay. Would he still not be able to get a green card based on marriage even if he came here illegally and not by his choice too he was 10.", "If you were moved there at 10 years old and that country gave you no avenue for legal citizenship, sure. ", "They are. The wrong person to deport would be a citizen. Was he a citizen?", "The Rs didn't coopt the individualist movement. The Dems abandoned it with their extreme collectivist shift to the far left and forced them out in droves.", "No, it's an economic reality. It's why - for fuck's sake - so many Mexicans have immigrated here. ", "He was only 10. Maybe he was never really told the whole truth until mich later?", "Sorry, I've never crossed the Mexico-US border. Don't they have computers to scan IDs? Wouldn't this create a red flag instantly.", "That's not true at all. I worked with 2 illegals that became citizens while here working illegally. ", "> ..combined with the relative ease it is to get a tourist visa\n\nI'm not sure about the ease of that. I haven't been able to have any of my younger family members to visit me in 10 years of trying. They are young and single, therefore I guess it's a risk that they will come only to get married and stay in the states? The parents always get approved, but anyone under 35 has been denied every year.", "Guess you've never been to Mexico. \n\nThey could improve their country, they just don't. They could start by not have a large portion of familiies deriving some benefit from the drug trade. The kids need things, the grandma's can't resist that wad of cartel cash. \n\n", "No disagree. The rules say (and are meant to say) your conduct here doesnt allow you to stay.", "I worked with ICE for about 5 months when I worked in a jail. They don't simply deport illegals. They deport illegals who have criminal records. I've never seen an alien who didn't have a criminal record that was being reported. Basically you have to do something pretty stupid to have ICE deport you. It wasn't speeding tickets or anything like that either. It was dealing drugs/other offences like that. I'm not saying that that's the case with this guy but that's what I've seen. ", "Okay, but just because something is morally correct doesn't make it feasible on a country wide scale. Immigration laws are needed. And yeah there's probably ways to improve them and make it so there's less of these cases, because no one likes this, it sucks, but it's a very hard line to draw.\n\nDisclaimer: I'm european, so I really don't have a dog in this fight, I just think that you have to be pragmatic ", "When I was first promoted into the office I was first in last out. I have since started to leave at a normal time but my time management has gotten better. New tasks=new skill sets to improve and new systems to learn have to make up for the curve on your own time. ", "Look at his family, this is so wrong!", "People who don't have legal status can still end up paying taxes, in fact they can never get tax refunds (which many people do get), so the government just gets to keep the excess. And obviously, they can never withdraw from social security despite paying into it. \n\nThere are also those who are solely under the table type stuff.", ">I 100% guarantee that you've broken laws. \n\n100% guarantee that I haven't.\n\n>Everyone has, because many of our laws are so antiquated. \n\nOkay and what happens to people when they get caught breaking the laws? Is it prison, jail, fines, and oh what is that last one for illegals.. DEPORTED? Yeah consequences.\n\n>The only way we distinguish between laws like that and laws like this is in how they are enforced. \n\nIt's pretty easy to enforce this one. You come here illegally. You stay here illegally. You get deported and can't apply to become a citizen for ten years. Sounds like a good law to me. Personally I'd vote for people who would make it so they could never reapply tbqh. \n\n>So is it different in his case because he broke a law that matters to you?\n\nNo. If someone breaks the law, there should be consequences. I agree that there are cases where the consequences should vary. For example take murder, premeditated and crime of passion are two different things, but both are murder. They deserve different consequences in some cases.\n\nHowever, not all laws are like this. Being here illegally, is pretty open and shut case in my opinion. I do not believe someone here illegally should be allowed to stay here. I might be okay with children being able to reapply immediately after deportation, but adults I think the laws are fine, and tbqh like I said, I'd 100% vote for people who would make it so they couldn't reapply.\n\nI think the only exception I could make to this is sex slaves that are brought here, children or adults against their will, threat, or blackmailed. Which they do get. Short-term immigration relief, while the investigation is going on if they wish to not stay here, and T visa and U visa. \n\n> Had you been in his situation, where any action you take to pursue citizenship might reveal that you've been living undocumented since you were 10, are you confident you'd have made choices that would've guaranteed you a place in this society?\n\nAt a young age, no, but that was his parents responsibility and they fucked him. They should have all been deported. When he turned 18 it's his responsibility and he chose to not follow the law. It's literally his fault. If I went to a country illegally, I sure as fuck wouldn't get married and have children to put that burden on others. I would never go into a country illegally though and if my parents brought me to a place illegally, I would have gone back the minute I turned 18 and figured out what to do. It's honestly stupid to live your life breaking the law, knowing because of it your whole life could be ruined.\n", "So follow laws, but only sometimes and not if you have a sad story to go along with it. Got it.", ">Ambiguity and are selectively enforced\n\nYep. Lawyers generally don't base the defense of a case on emotional arguments. They use laws against laws.\n\n>Is there any version of this that we could meet in the middle on?\n\nWe can agree it is sad that he has to leave his family. \nWe can also agree the law needs to be changed. But we cannot agree that you start making exceptions to a law that is the law.", "The other option is you reach out, sponsor him, and let him come live with you until he gets in. .\n\nIf it doesn't work out with this guy I'm sure there are plenty more. Instead of preaching and telling the rest of us how shitty we are, open your home your heart and your wallet and lead by example. \n\nLet us know how it goes.", "Very few things are impossible, but a lot of things are extremely improbable", "Not unjust. Stop getting your feelings hurt over immigration laws that any other country has. If you’re illegal, you run the risk of being found and deported. Simple ", "Isn't the primary system basically ranked voting? You pick your 1st choice in the primaries and if they don't win there you pick your next choice in the actual election.", "both are racial issues", "Rules are rules. I feel really bad for him in this tough situation, but tougher legislation around immigration is LONG overdue. I hope he can legally become a citizen timely. ", "Do you know how hard it is to become a citizen? Try doing that and also supporting yourself at the same time.", "his name is jorge garcia motherfucker. how can you not spot that from a mile away?", "Just because something is legal or illegal, doesn’t make it ethical. See Nazi Germany.", "What can i say except,you're welcome! -Trump. Probably ", "They could go (not return - they’re American) to Mexico with their dad, depending on the immigration laws, but that’s a devastating decision for a family. \n\nIt’s effectively the choice between their lives (friends, careers, hobbies, etc) vs being together as a family. Plus, since they don’t likely have the same support network in Mexico, it’s reasonable to assume their quality of life would be greatly diminished. \n\nIt’s effectively sacrificing the kids’ futures so they can all be together. And that’s to say nothing about the parents’ hopes and dreams. \n\nIt’s an impossible choice.", "> I married a family friend who was illegal to help her get citizenship, when I was in the army.\n\nYa that's probably not something you should talk about.", "I’d rather an American family be able to stay together in America. ", "Someone further up in the thread suggested that his family say fuck America and just move somewhere else like Germany. Did a quick search on the [requirements](http://www.germany-visa.org/immigration-germany/) to move to Germany. One of which is knowing German. Doesn't seem like this family will have that option should they wish to (unfortunately).", "Well now he has to wait 10 years. Citizenship is hard, there's limited positions why should this guy get to jump the line? He had 30 years and options to get in legally but chose not to.", "\"Yea but hey remember this one time?\" - you must be really fun at story time", "> illegal immigration sustains itself on tax leech and identity theft\n> \n> Let's fix those too. Why would I be against that?\n\nYes the solution is no illegal immigration.\n\nBut again you are moving your goal post from \"disregarding laws that I dont like\" to \"lets have sympathy for 10 year old kids\". \n\nIm not here to talk about 10 year old kids and families \"suffering\", Im here to talk about how retarded you are for thinking disregarding laws for moral reason is okay. So answer my question.\n\n\"if I did an action that exclusively harmed you but benefited many people to a zero-sum, would that be okay?\"", "The problem is that the amnesties didn't come with a reform of the various visas and programs that would have solved the program long term. Like for instance have a visa program with* a path to citizenship for immigrants who don't have a college degree. There is a huge need for such workers, but no adequate programs.", "Apples and oranges are both fruits and that makes them very easy to compare.", "How can you work and pay tax without social security number?", "They do that by stealing *real* peoples' identities which causes the person they stole the identity from to have a higher reported income (without them knowing, and sometimes even moving them up an entire tax bracket). \n\nThis means that person has to pay more income tax with money they most likely don't have because they didn't budget for having their identity stolen. \n\nSome people have even been audited and force to pay huge fines through no fault of their own. \n\nIllegal immigrants are quite *literally* stealing money from American citizens in a very direct way.", "Wow", "They actually pay [$12 billion per year in taxes](http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/maria-teresa-kumar/how-much-do-undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes/) ", "No semantics. He has never been an American a day in his life.", "Then just don't comment. Why waste your time and energy? People have already told them (and many others) why they're wrong. Just keep scrolling", "There's no pathway to legal status for someone in his situation.", "Yes, he could have done something in the past 30 years. But that wouldn’t fit the narrative of it all being Trump’s fault.", "When you guys completely lack a counterpoint, you always go for ad hominems.\n\nDoes this ever work or does it just make you feel better about being wrong?", "It isn't sensationalised at all. The headline is just a pure statement of fact. You're bringing up something else entirely.", "Tell me why and I'll ask my Dad what he thinks about your opinion. You know, someone that this issue has touched much more than yourself.", "If he was paying taxes for 30 years, then yeah it's not good. \n\nBut if he was a freeloader for 30 years... that's not good. ", "Except for all those hate crimes that get perpetrated against them.", "It was illegal for women to vote in the past, didn't make it right. The law is not what is right or moral. l", "Well this makes sense. Deprive the family half of its income, thereby more than likely placing his American citizen children in a position to need social assistance and tax payer dollars. Why? Why not have a way for this person to obtain legal status, pay taxes and let him live his life?", "In this case he is not allowed to adjust his status, because of the initial illegal entry (which occurred when his parents brought him into the country, when he was 10 years old).", "Right, these morons think that a 10 year old is going to say \"no wait mom and dad, we can't move to the US, it's against the law, we need to be citizens first\"\n\nWhat alternative reality do these people live in?\n\nEdit: let's add more for our TD friends,\n\n\"I just turned 18, you know what seems like a great idea? Moving back to a country I barely remember and have no remaining ties to with the very little money I have\" or maybe he thought it'd be a better idea to get a job in the country he considered his home and contribute to society by earning a wage and paying taxes. \n\nHere's another: \"I just had a child, you know what I should do? Leave the country for several years to get my citizenship instead of staying and taking care of my child, because nobody will judge me for abandoning my kid and moving to another country with the chance that I'm unable to come back. That makes perfect sense\"\n\nIn before \"he should have gotten citizenship before having a kid\" hey idiots, ever had an unplanned child before? Oh wait no you're all perfect humans who have never made a mistake in you entire life before. He tried to be a good human and do the right thing and provide for himself and his family, and you're all jumping at the opportunity to punish him for that. You idiots should be ashamed of yourself, thats the foundation America was built on, coming here for better opportunities, working hard, and giving a better life to their children. Suddenly that's a bad thing? That sure is what it sounds like alot of people are advocating for. Dude didn't even commit any crimes as an adult, but you'd rather throw him out for something he had no control over happening when he was a child.\n\nEdit 2: love watching the comment score go up and down while TD users try and act like the guy made the wrong choice of staying and taking care of his family over abandoning his wife and kids for 10+ years with the chance he's unable to return at all. Yall are salty", "We went from being on pace to accept 110,000 refugees Obama’s last year to 45,000 under Trumps first year. That is a complete turnaround. \n\nhttps://www.google.com/amp/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/30/key-facts-about-refugees-to-the-u-s/%3famp=1", "You're the one that's policing everybody's language. Doesn't get more politically correct than that. Holy shit LOL", "It's the ugly side of things. Laws always need adjustment and change for cases like this but it never happens or is so slow that it takes decades. There are also people that filibuster attempts to change them. \n\nThere may even be a reason it hasn't been changed, such as allowing this 1 person to stay causes 1000 bad ones to also stay, resulting in countless murders and rapes. \n\nTrump should step in and make the guy a citizen based on time served, if it's even possible, and if his opposition would even let him.", "Aww I feel so bad for him especially since he chose to stay here illegally for many years..lol..it's his and his parents fault, I clap to news like this...I wouldn't expect to go live in England or France without proper documents so ..", "Ahh the liberal wild card ", "If this is the case, then he committed fraud and is a criminal.", "How many little deplorables you got rolling out of that trailer of yours, Trumpet?", "Yeah, I can’t believe the irresponsibility of that... ten year old child. Good post, great job, very smart.", "What does this have to do with MLK day?", "Trumps mother was illegal - lock him up!", "[Multi generational punishment, you say?](https://m.imgur.com/r/NorthKoreaPics/Mda6JuS)\n\nUphold the Juche idea Comrade /u/atomicastro\n\nYou are now a moderator at /r/Pyongyang ", "So we care more about him because it’s on a holiday and his situation seems “worse”? This happens to people all the time, it’s sick. Same thing happens with death. A friend would be like “my 2nd cousin just died! Aren’t you sad wtf you are heartless?!” I’m just like, “I don’t know him. Are you heartless because you aren’t sad that some guy named George just died somewhere in the world? ", "both are racial issues", "What a dangerous precedent it would be to allow people to legally immigrate here without bullshit red tape. How horrible to let people have better lives. ", "Do you have a source for that? Would help to link things to stop the misinformation from people who don't know what they're talking about and are making wild assumptions", "Their children are Americans.", "... The bottom 45% of earners also pay no income tax, so they don't pay less than those. Really, the middle class just gets the shaft. ", "Because this is America. A nation of (mostly) immigrants.", "So he has to leave his home behind and apply to possibly get citizenship? That sounds like it could be life shattering to me.", "You’re ok with 11 million people being here completely illegally? What’s even the point of laws then?", "Didn't those glorious utopia socialist nations round up and kill all their intellectuals, too? So intellectuals being against their extermination by the state is \"anti-intellectual\" now, apparently.", "Why is that not a problem for children migrating to US?", "are you serious? Why don't you scroll further down this thread...", "There's nothing Kafkaesque about saying that if you have entered the country illegally and remain in the country illegally, you have to leave the country to apply for permission to enter legally. It's pretty clear and easy to comply with. This person chose not to comply, was ordered deported in 2009, and continued to stay in the country illegally until today.\n", "Lmao yeah. Thats fucked. Immoral, unethical, and justt straight up stupid. And Im sure im being overly idealistic, I suppose thats why I didnt go through law school. ", "This is fucking bullshit. ", "Sounds like a shithole. ", "\"Proper\" after a generous coat of sugar. US law calls them illegal aliens or illegal immigrants.", "Whoosh", "I'm curious what would he would have done in those thirty years if he got pulled over by a cop? \n", "I'm asking about THIS guy. Not all the humans around the world. Not every story is the same. I agree, can't let everyone in. But why not him? ", "It defies common sense, he was brought as kid not his choice and lived 30 years . Thats why America is fucking stupid", "What if a judge did review this case and made this decision. What do you do now? Would you say it was a mistake to grant so much power to one individual?\n\nThere is no simple solution to this. ", "He could have gone back to Mexico and applied and got back within 6 - 9 months", "Yeah it's a process. You adapt and you adjust over time.", "If we were to put this in a planetary scale of Neptune being the last and the sun being the first, the chances that the president does anything is the galaxy MACS0647-JD that is the farthest known galaxy to our Milky Way and is 13.3 billion light years away from earth. Here is a video that visualizes this https://youtu.be/octRYMsiLX0", "When your ancestors came over, no one said they were poor criminals who should go back where they came from and let the Native Americans live in peace. \n\nNo, your ancestors came, slaughtered man and beast - forever changing the landscape of the country.\n\nSo, whilst there surely must be some border policy, every non-native American \"legally\" in the country today is here with inherent privilege. Whether they came during Columbus, the Civil War, or as slave, economic migrant or opportunism, whether they came during amnesty or were naturalized, no matter how they arrived they have won the lottery (literally too in some cases) and the only difference between you and those now treated as scum of the Earth for wanting to get in is luck.\n\nDon't ever forget that. ", "both are racial issues", "Well they were wrong. ", "And yet the people coming to the US are still choosing to do so. If their life is so miserable, why are they making that decision? Perhaps its because things are even worse where they are from. As bad as their life seems compared to yours, it still might be better than what they ran from. Your argument strikes me a bit like \"People can live in misery, as long as I don't have to see it\"", "And he had 30 years, 22 of which were as a legal adult, to do the right thing an legally become a citizen. He did not so back to shithole Mexico he goes. ", "spouse sponsored immigration is a totally different system. the waiting times you're referring to don't apply.", "The US being asshats does not preclude anyone else from being twats (especially in specific circumstances). It's not like there are limited asshole licenses available. ", "If you qualify (permanent resident for 5 years, 3 if you're married to an American) then it takes a year or two of processing time. The problem is there's not many paths from unauthorised to permanent resident.", "I'm sorry, is it someone else's responsibility to apply for citizenship for him? Or do we give him a pass because he established a family? Last time I checked, if I did this in any other country in the world and got caught, I'd face similar repercussions. So, what makes this individual exempt?", "If Obama admin deported more illegal aliens than any other administration, and they supposedly only targeted \"criminals,\" this begs the question, how many illegal aliens are criminals? Answer: ", "My parents were both alcoholics who barely paid any attention to me and my sister, so we basically raised ourselves. \n\nBut please, tell me all about his poor man's problems and how he should be given a free pass. ", "Not twisting the narrative. Just calling it by its correct term. Saying someone is illegal is dehumanizing. Saying someone doesn't have the proper documents for citizenship, in this case, American citizenship, is correct. Therefore they are undocumented. ", "If your parents robbed a bank, should you be punished? It's not our job to make sure your parents do the right thing.", "He pussied out and deleted on a brand new alt account within the hour. He is a chicken shit coward.", "Seriously, next they're going to tell us rapists and murderers shouldn't be punished for their crimes. If you commit a crime and get caught there are consequences, if they don't like it then they should be fighting to change the laws but instead they're making arguments like this and might as well be comparing apples to oranges.", "Yeah, historically people never came here illegally when it was easier to do so legally. Never ever. ", "There are no proper channels for people like him. \n\nHe paid taxes, has no criminal record and gets punished for his parents wrongdoing. His family gets ripped apart and lost the breadwinner. Great prospects for the kids.\n\nAre the US a better place now?\n", ">Lot's of people are in bad situations because of their parents...so what? \n\nI think this is a little different. The government we put in power has chosen to do this. It's a result of our immigration policy. We could just have easily said that people brought over to this country prior to a certain age could have legal status of some sort, but not be able to become a citizen or sponsor others to be here.\n\nEdit:\n\n>My dad never saved for college....should you pay for it now?\n\nI wanted to add this. A long time ago, people said the same thing about high school. The answer to that question back then was an emphatic yes. I personally think it's time to do the same for College, or at the very least an associates degree worth of education.\n\n", "This is a good counter. I wish they would respond. Also, that’s one of the nicest news sites I’ve visited. No annoying ads or popups. ", "both are racial issues", "If the spouse is a citizen, yes, but only if he isn't subject to a ten year ban (which he probably is). If his kids are citizens, but his spouse is not, they have to be 18 to help him apply.\n\nUnder those circumstances, it's no wonder that so many people just jump the border again. Otherwise they can't be with thier families.", "wtf", "He had 30 years to make it right.", "At ten years old? ", "The law isn't a holy document. Its rules created by men. And a lot of them fuck good people is really bad ways. Saying the law is always right and anyone who breaks the law is bad and deserves what they get is a stupid small minded view. At one point it was illigal for whites and blacks to marry, and slaves couldn't leave their owner. I'm sure there were lots of stupid people saying they deserve it because they broke the law.\n\nBeaking apart a family for what someones parents did when they were 10 is a stupid small minded law.", "Then it's still the same issue, should that wife and their children give up their whole lives just because their husband/father's parents brought him into the country. \n\nCould you easily choose between your partner and every single thing you have? your home, your friends, your job and your country?", "Are you fucked in the head or just lazy?", "Jorge should have paid his taxes...", "Literally impossible to do, you get deported if you try, then they make you wait ten years before you can even try to come back, then they make you wait between 7-15 years just to get approved.", "You know the difference between \"world\" & \"US\"?", "> Why should illegally entering the country be the start of a legal path to citizenship?\n\nIt shouldn't. But that's only part of the question, because I don't live in a theoretical world. I live in the real world, and part of living in the real world is dealing with the fact that we have something like 11 million illegal immigrants in the country and deporting them is unrealistic for many reasons. \n\nI'd like to see a fix to our immigration system that makes it easier for people to come here legally, coupled with harsher punishments for people who come here illegally in the future, coupled with a path to citizenship for those who are already here. Not because I want to reward people who came here illegally, but because I want to get to a point where we don't have millions of illegal immigrants living here and that seems like an approach that might actually solve the fucking problem.\n\nBecause that's my focus. Solving the problem. I'm not focused on punishing people. I'm not focused on sending a message. I'm focused on how can we actually solve the problem of millions of illegal immigrants living in our country. If I have to have mercy and sympathy for people who broke the law, but I achieve a greater good, I'm willing to do that.\n\n> That makes zero logical sense, and I don't see why thinking that would get me labelled as a racist.\n>\n> Is it also racist to think that burglarizing a house shouldn't be the start of a path to owning that homeowner's things?\n\nNot everyone who votes against those politicians is racist, and maybe you aren't. That said, Racists are voting them out. When it's impossible to even have a discussion about the path to citizenship, and what that might entail, and how that would be good for our country as a whole even though it means some poor brown people might not get punished for breaking the law, that's when I look at the public statements and attitudes of the people voting those politicians out and label them racist.\n\n", "Shit im in the army. We got a 4 day weekend haha. Granted its a medical brigade so the officers take as many days off as possible hah", "I do see your points, really. And I think this is a very tough case because of those compassionate grounds. But at the same time he chose to marry and have a child whilst being an illegal, knowing he could be deported one day. That is on him, frankly speaking. \n\nBut fundamentally, you and I seem to agree that enforcement of the law is the problem. If the law was enforced quickly and efficiently, this situation never would have arisen in the first place because he and his adult relatives would have been stopped at the border or sent back as quickly as they arrived. The fact that the absence of any law enforcement allowed him to stay for decades, is what caused this in large part. \n\nHence why, on a broader level, the Trump admin is strongly advocating for real border and immigration law enforcement. Not token. Real. That way these problems will never arise in the future. ", "The immigration system is completely broken. It is inadequate and fabricate illegals every day.", "This happened thousands of times during the Obama administration too. \n\nTry using your faux outrage on something worthy of it.", "Probably this part:\n\nare under 31 years of age as of June 15, 2012;", "She worked at an Indian casino later in life. Not sure about before I was born", "both are racial issues", "Have you looked at statistics for how many Americans don't pay taxes? It is about 44%. Do you realize that about 10% of illegal immigrants are under the age of 18? Do you realize that everybody who buys anything is paying sales tax?\n\nAll in all, this all boils down to the fact that immigrants \"not paying taxes\" is not a problem. It does not negatively affect society. Rather, it is something for people who aren't good at critical thinking to latch onto, a weakness for politicians to exploit. In your case, it seems they've exploited you effectively.", "That’s a fucking sin. Should be ashamed that this is happening!", "Found the idiot that hasn't heard of synonyms!", "Oh great wise and mature conservative, please explain to the class what you “think” ", "How does a huge number of illegal immigrants make it any better?\n\nNo, because Norway doesn’t allow 800,000 children with parents to waltz into their country. Don’t be surprised when you take your kid to Norway and try to stay there they kick you and your kid out of the country. ", "From the article: Garcia had been facing an order of removal from immigration courts since 2009, but under the previous administration, he had been given stays of removal. \n\nSince 2009, FFS. Since 2009!!!", "Not that easy though", "Ok. He was here illegally. ", "Ummmm... IANAL but a work visa (like H) or a student visa is not an immigrant visa in the US. Those are \"non-immigrant\" visas.", "A jury trial? What would be a jury's role? There is no contest; an individual is here legally or not.", "No but he had 22 years of being an adult to figure it out. Sounds like a personal problem.", "Does anyone remember mlk was a conservative who loved Jesus?\n", "I was detained with people in ICE custody for a month. A lot of good talented people having their lives ruined. One was an amazing artist and used to be an illustrator for marvel. He was American as anyone and had no accent. They were trying to send him to Jamaica - a place where he knew no one and hadn't been since early childhood.", "Let's not play this game, weeaboo.\n\nI'm sure you don't like being called names just like anyone else.\n\nLet's stick to the issues.", "Why the hell didn't he become a citizen in those 30 years?", "So you don't respect our national sovereignty then? You're ok with open borders? I thought you just said you weren't.", "I agree. I think it's a fundamental issue with the human condition, which would obviously apply to everyone. It would take a lot of effort to change that, since it's the work of evolution. Individuals might be able to ascend, but they won't matter when it's an entire species that needs to do so in order for what those individuals want to become reality. And, naturally, the majority rules.", "[See the article here](https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/three-and-ten-year-bars)\n\nUSC number is listed in the article.", "both are racial issues", "This is why feelings don't dictate policy.", "I feel like the law is losing legitimacy and doing it quick.", "I never said the US weren't cunts. You assumed since I said that Canadian immigration are a bunch of cunts that the US aren't also a bunch of cunts. You assumed wrong. Also your health care isn't free. You pay for it. Just in a different way.\nI voted third party. Assumptions...", "immigrate legally", "To be fair. Most Americans born here don't understand it either. ", "It's MLK day so we can't deport illegal immigrants? \n\nIs the correlation because he's a minority?", "So you've never been to T_D?", "I'm sure Native Americans had laws of the land. And I'm sure the settlers broke those laws many times over.", "Conditions have changed and it doesn't have to be like all those years ago, but I doubt America can't adapt to a rising immigration rate.\n\nWhy not though? Our industry is leaving and more and more jobs are being automated every year. Can you imagine if we tried to implement Universal Basic income with our illegal immigration problem we have now? \n\n", "Just illegal. Legal needs to be closely regulated.", "this is the most cancer thread of the day", "Dr King fought against injustice. ", "You've got the wrong section.\n\n>(9) Aliens previously removed\n\n>(B) Aliens unlawfully present\n\n>(i) In general Any alien (other than an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence) who—\n\n\n>(II) has been unlawfully present in the United States for one year or more, and who again seeks admission within 10 years of the date of such alien’s departure or removal from the United States,\n\n> is inadmissible.", "I mean I know you're right. But I was born from illegal parents who were more American than alot of people who were born here and raised they're whole lives. They never once used any government program. I feel it one of those \"walk a mile in the other persons shoes thing\" So I think of my parents when I think of these people.", "I was thinking about that but the pic states that he was already deported. He could do an I-212 depending on his situation. This is sad. I’ve seen so many of these cases at work. I hate seeing family’s torn apart for something they had no choice in when they were kids. ", "I fucking hate this country sometimes. ", "Laws needs to be challenged every now and then when they lead to cruelty against people who've personally done no harm. 10 years old isnt old enough to even be tried as a juvenile.", "Yup, if people coming over cross the border with their children it is considered human trafficking and instead of getting a green card, people get a deportation order and a ban for life. Quite a lot of parents are cut off guard like that.", "Good", "So I just looked her up. She is NOT a DNC chair member. She was running for the position and did not win it. Most likely because of saying stupid shit like that.\n\nBut regardless of that, she is a pointless stupid person who said something dumb. She only power that you want to give her.\n\nBut if you want to talk about 'moral panic' that's fine.\n\nTrump thanked Alex Jones for helping him with the campaign. Alex Jones convinced people Hillary was killing babies, eating them, having sex with them and then sacrificing them to Satan in the basement of a pizza join. He convinces people Liberals are demons who have come to earth to murder Christians.\n\nIs that enough of a moral panic to you?\n\n", "See ya later!", "\"it just takes a lot of money\" the american way ... lots of money solves everything ", "I wouldn't bother. I was curious to see if they actually had a point, I try to keep an open mind, but it quickly became clear he believes in that because he wants to. ", "It makes America better by setting the precedent that you can't jump the border and squeeze out a baby as an excuse to stay (\"anchor babies\"). The only people this guy should be angry at are his parents who brought their 10 year old child into a country illegally, knowing what the consequences could be.", "Most illegals font even try to become proper citizens..they prefer to stay under the radar, work for cash and absolutely rape the health care system and free benefits given to them", "So no, you know nothing about immigration laws", "I don’t believe it so much that, at least in my mind. I believe it’s more along the lines that in 30 years he hasn’t paid any taxes. I work my ass off for what I have and the government takes their fair share of taxes out of my paycheck while this guy hasn’t paid anything. I agree and disagree with this though, I think it should be a lot easier for people to become citizens of this country. It’s like we don’t want anyone else coming in from other countries which is wrong and not what this country was built on. ", "Damn that's awful. What I don't understand is how he's lived in the US all these years. Does that mean he's never paid taxes or had health insurance? Or do people in his situation still pay taxes but have no SSN? Wish I understood this better. So awful, hope he gets back to his family! ", "In 10 years this story will be posted as a \"TIL 10 years ago\" thread.", "I disagree with the racist argument but doubly disagree with there being no exceptions. There should be ample exceptions to our immigration process, especially in situations where it’s not so cut and dry on who broke the law. Also I think the alleged “they broke the law” moral high ground is bullshit.", "No, anytime between then and now. He had 20 years to take care of it ", "You can go home and apply like everyone else so you’re just wrong, man.", "That's what I mean. People have already told them what's wrong. Is it really necessary to leave a comment insulting them? Why not just keep scrolling? Why waste time leaving that comment at all?", "Lol - being against illegal immigration is a “right wing agenda.”", "> you should go back home\n\nThat doesn't even make any sense. Mexico was not his \"home\". You're literally saying he should've just left everything he knows, the language, culture, _everything_ he knew of his life, left it all to go to some entirely unfamiliar, foreign country once he turned 18...and...what? ", "What does an illegal alien have to do with Martin Luther King?", "The trick to is is just opening the borders completely and stop calling people ‘illegal’ like it’s wrong to want to live in the USA if you were not born there, then there would be zero illegals.", "I doubt you really want to pay for what would REALLY happen.\n\nPeople are so naive. Here in Texas, every single anchor baby receives $194 per month on a food card. Five to eight or more is the common number of kids. There a MILLIONS of them. Where do you think the fucking money comes from?", "Any plans to update your post so that it's less of a fallacy ? ", "I was just in Mexico City. Personally, I’d prefer to live there versus Detroit. Good weather, beautiful city, nice people, amazing culture, low cost of living....I wouldn’t be surprised if our hardworking, intelligent, fellow American citizens chose to leave the US for Mexico.\n", "I am positive that all the posters advocating a zero tolerance approach to illegal immigration would graciously accept their punishment for anything illegal they have done, like smoking weed, playing poker for money at home, peeing outside, etc. ", "True. And Mexico City is a fantastic city, you can have a great life there, plenty of English speakers. Or maybe Baja California, live out your days by the beach. There are nice places in Mexico that wouldn't be the end of the world to live in for his kids. ", "Yes, lets all go back and see who got deported during each and every MLK day, Xmas, Hanukkah, July 4th, Washington's Birthday and every other holiday since its inception. Deportation never happened before 2017 and certainly never to any people with children.", "Then why the fuck would he break a country's laws for 30 fucking years, knowing he'd be putting his family at a massive risk in the future. Again, fucking idiot Father...", "Because a better standard of life is worth the disruption. No one with risk all this for a worse quality of life.", "I'm an immigrant and American citizen. The man is probably more American than me. He certainly has been here longer than me. So yeah, it's really bullshit.", "FUCK Trump and republicans this is all on them ", "Well, first problem is that he cannot apply to be a citizen while living in the USA.\n\nSecond one is that path to legal immigration is fucked up. http://static.openlawlab.com/uploads/2011/10/IMmigration-Law-Comic-Terry-Colon-Reason.jpg", "What does this have to do with MLK?\n", "It's the proper nomenclature. Call them like we see them. ", "Where was the same outrage when the exact same thing happened thousands of times during the Obama administration.\n\nOr was caring about it not trendy enough then?", "He would have had to leave the country and apply there. You cannot be in the country illegally and apply for residence.", "Not disagreeing with the sentiment, but the children technically are eligible for Mexican citizenship (and whatever that would afford them) by the 2nd bullet point below. And the wife is eligible for citizenship by naturalization as well, given that they've been married for more than 2 years.\n\n>The Mexican Constitution states that Mexicans Citizens by birth are:\n\n>* persons born in Mexican territory regardless of parents' nationality or immigration status in Mexico\n>* persons born abroad of a Mexican Citizen born in Mexico\n>* persons born to an individual after that person has become a naturalized citizen of Mexico\n>* individuals born on Mexican merchant- or Navy ships or Mexican-registered aircraft, regardless of parents' nationality\n>* children born to Mexican Diplomats or Ministry of Foreign Affairs Personnel working overseas\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_nationality_law#Nationality_by_birth", "Would you rather go to Mexico with the clothes on your back and maaaybe in like 3 years you can come back, but realistically probably not, or would you rather try to lay low and hope that you don't get noticed by immigration, but if you do you have to live in Mexico for the rest of your life which is the probable outcome of option 1 anyway? I think the vast majority would choose the latter, but both options are fucked. This dude got put into horrible circumstances by no fault of his own. Blame his parents, sure, but you're not supposed to have to answer for their parent's crime.", "I presume initial idea was \"age of majority\", and while in some countries that would be 18, for many countries it's 16. At that point child presumably is an adult and can make own decisions, with primary protected group being smaller kids brought to US without any choice.\n\nPrimary target was smaller kids (that also either go to school or graduated from high school)", "Idk, I agree but then it’s discrimanatory if we pick and choose. ", "Jesus, /u/janus_marine's post history is a trainwreck. I highly recommend people go through the first couple of pages", "Fuck your race card. Its overplayed", "it would have taken him 1 year to get permanent residence after he married a citizen. All he had to do was cross the border file the paperwork and wait. The US would have had no clue whether he was here illegally and life would have went on. Instead he decided that he hasn't gotten caught yet so why waste a year.", "Why exactly were you refused entry to Canada three times? Is there an important detail you didn't mention?", ">Garcia had been facing an order of removal from immigration courts since 2009, but under the previous administration, he had been given stays of removal.\n\n[After 30 years in U.S., metro Detroit immigrant deported to Mexico](https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2018/01/15/jorge-garcia-daca-deported-mexico-immigration/1033296001/)", "Well the immigration laws don't mention anything about race as far as I know. And if I'm correct Mexicans make up the largest swathe of the legal immigrants coming into this country. So I'm not sure what country you're referring to, but it's not the United States. ", "It’s not like he committed a real crime of spousal rape of draft dodging, or anything like that. \n\n", "None of that changes my comment. There are differences with every administration and the opposition takes situations to support their narrative and present the other guy in a bad light. This law is not new and Trump has not had input on this decision. This guy’s time is up and it’s a tough situation (I hope something can be worked out so he can stay) but there are bad things that happen every day and if you are not a citizen and living here undocumented you have a potential problem under the law. There isn’t some “out” for people that have gotten away with it for X years. \n\nThis isn’t a system where there can be complete consistency or fairness over all situations. The bureaucracy, numbers and array of circumstances are too large. ", "I mean you need to fix the laws, the judges are simply meant to rule based off of them. Its a shitty situation", "I wish Trudeau would let these people bring their families to Canada instead of being separated. It would impact a ton of lives and it’s a huge PR move for him, assuming they have background checks done and they have at least some job skills, I don’t see how it could really hurt our hugely under populated country. We’re taking middle eastern refugees by the tens of thousands, a few thousand more ‘Americans’ wouldn’t hurt us. \n\nI know it’s a slippery slope and we can’t take care of every person in the world. They’re already assimilated to North American culture, speak the language etc. Would make for a much much easier transition than people from other continents that have different cultures and speak different languages. Assuming they have at least semi employable job skills, it could be a benefit to our country. ", "Really? You know white illegal immigrants? Interesting, which country are they from and why are they here illegally?", "It takes 6-9 months to get a visa through marriage. He could have done that years ago and would have had to spend 1 year in Mexico to make it look legitimate. ", "When you fill out a W4 when you get a job? No it just sits in a file. It's when you try to file taxes and get a tax return where it would unravel. So they don't file and don't get a refund.", "I just don't understand why hard working, tax paying immigrants are being deported, and, yet, we're stuck with Bieber.", "This is how you turn children into terrorists", "Okay but I know people who were illegal and then they got married to an American. All they have to do is go back to their home country and then come back on a fiancée visa. I don't understand why people are freaking out over this. The internet has been around for half the time this guy has been in the country, plenty of people find ways to come here legally and make right a situation that their parents messed up for them.", "Happened to a coworker of mine. Lawyer didn't tell her all the paperwork she needed to have until it was too late. Same lawyer handled her husbands green card no problem, but fucked up on hers. They both had to move back a few years ago. I guess if you fuck up in that type of law, nobody left to sue you. ", "That's just not true. There's a reason our system is so much more expensive than countries with nation healthcare. Most of what you pay for in healthcare in the US goes towards administration that wouldn't be necessary. Healthcare and health insurance is not something that can be left to the free market for the simple reason that people do not understand what they are buying. It's too complex and too specialized to expect people to understand. Also, you don't need health insurance until you're in trouble. If you show up in the ER, and I say you need an operation right now or you'll die, you don't really have a choice but to pay whatever I want. You only have one life to \"spend\" and all other wealth is irrelevant if you die. We need government to regulate healthcare to make sure people are adequately covered and to regulate how care is apportioned. ", "It's actually true. They file to receive taxpayer funded child credits and most pay in little, if any, to the system. There's a net negative that is funded by legal citizens. ", "A misdemeanor is a crime.", "Oh.. this fact made me sad. ", "Canada doesn't let everyone in either.", ">The economist look at the full impact.\n\nYeah, TO THE ECONOMY. USA might have the greatest economy in the world by some measure but that doesnt mean we are the happiest. healthiest, most secure citizens in the world with the greatest quality of life. The same could go for China. ", "You can apply for a special number from the IRS called an ITIN, which takes the place of a social security number. With it, you can apply for jobs, file taxes, etc.", "Dosnt work like that my dude ", "I sat next to a former marine who didn’t vote because “shits rigged for Hillary.”\nHe was very quiet the day of the results. ", "\"oh no brown people are crying! quick, burn the constitution!\" I wonder what the founding fathers would think of this.", "I'm still curious what the economic/social benefit of investing so many resources in deporting hard working men and women are...", "I agree, perhaps illegally living here for a period of say 20 years, you can apply and if you pass all citizen requirements then you become a citizen.\n\nProvided of course you \"keep your nose clean\" so to speak.", "He was broght here when he was ten, it's not like he had a choice on how to immigrate ", "Hmm I guess I'll just go rob my neighbor instead of working a job and making money legally ", "came here illegally = not a citizen. Being 10 and coming here doesn’t make you a citizen, going to school, paying taxes, working, none of that makes you a citizen. Yes, It’s unfortunate for him. Unfortunate circumstances don’t make you a citizen. The law is the law and he broke it. ", "Ok? He’s an illegal immigrant. He’s had thirty years to get it figured out. ", "This is an idiots question. Trump wasn't making a comment about the country, he was making a judgment about its people based on the country.\n\nIt's like someone in 1900 saying, we don't want Irish or Italian because they come from shitty dysfunctional places, so their people must be defective somehow.", "Uh what is wrong with your brain that the answer to this hypocrisy is “deport more people” and not “have some sympathy for everyone”, like did you have shitty parents or what", "So in what looks like 30 years he's never taken the steps to be legal? Why am I supposed to be sad for him?\n\n It's obviously horrible for his family, I'm not a monster, but hear me out. This is just like when a man goes to prison for tax evasion because he didn't do something the government requires as a citizen. I don't see the outpouring of support for tax fraud? Hope about going to jail for not paying child support, alimony, a judgement, selling pot... People are taken away from their families for a multitude of legal reasons but when it's an illegal immigrant we're supposed to overlook that he's had 30 YEARS to correct the issue and choose not to?", "Does anyone remember that Jesus was a bleeding-heart liberal?", "That Trump won Florida is truly a miracle with all those democrat voters.", "How come he never applied to be a citizen in those 30 years?", "\"The system isn't functioning perfectly, so we should throw away the system with no replacement lol\"", "Entering the country the only way they could without jumping over arbitary hoops, waiting for months, and paying more than they could? \n\nYou've never had to face this problem.", "A person cannot be illegal lol. ", "because ACA stands for affordable care act which makes it seem like the health care would be affordable...who would be against that?\n\nI dunno about you, but for most people who actually paid for their own healthcare and didn't get subsidies it went up quite a bit higher under the affordable care act. To the point of it not being all that affordable for them ", "the American dream works for those that don't break the laws that make the American dream possible.. ", "We need to get rid of citizenship for people simply born on US land. That had to be the most idiotic law/amendment ever written in the world. If your parents are US citizens then you will be a citizen. This anchor baby bullshit is so fucking stupid.", "Where in that sentence does it say the US currently has open borders? Who's the idiot again?", "Ehh sort of. I was brought over when I was 1 and am a DACA receipient. When you're growing up you go through the education system and along the way you make friends and set goals. About to graduate high school? Oh, let's see which undergrad I can go to and maybe me and my best friend will be able to go to the same school together. About to graduate undergrad? Sweet, can't wait to see how high I can go from here. Maybe I'll get a job at company X. Then maybe you meet someone, settle down and all that. \n\nAlong the way it's hard to just drop everything and say. Ok, let me just self deport myself and be away from my family and friends for 10 years. Then apply and wait 1-3 years for a visa. Then 5 years for a GC and maybe 3 more for citizenship. It takes far too long to become a citizen of this country for everyone. It really shouldn't be THIS hard.\n\nHere is a fact. The immigration system hasn't been touched for around 20 years. That's a major problem because a lot has changed in that time. The country has changed considerably and its values. My view of it is that there should be a strong merit based system to hear each individual case and it be left up to an immigration judge to decide if a person merits being a part of this country. And yes, this should also be coupled with strong border security.\n\nYes, other nations would quickly deport this guy but since when did the US get into the habit of using other countries as their measuring stick? The US should instead lead by example with compassion and logic.", "> Immigration is a large positive.\n> \n> Mass immigration is a negative.\n\n~ \n \n>When immigration is done by single individuals, it is immigration. When done by groups, it is invasion. \n \n- Nassim Nicholas Taleb \n \nhttps://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/952986655773818881\n", "Yes. We need to be better than them. We need to be at least as patient and open-minded as we want them to be.", "No but I also wouldn’t illegally cross a nations border illegally. No other country allows it so I don’t understand why it is such a hard concept to grasp. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. In this dudes case it’s a trip back to Mexico.", "Racism", "Shame on me for not basing law on my emotions and feelings awwww poor meeeee lol", "Should have set himself straight before taking on the added risk of having a family. Pretty selfish of him. ", "There is a huge need for such workers, but no adequate programs.\n\nSource? Or is it just the same \"Lazy murricans wont do those jobs\" rhetoric ", "Can we guarantee reasonable relief to the deported child outside of Disneyland? We can throw out money, but can we really reasonably believe that the child they're kicking out will receive any of it? I well assume that a grown man, still mostly legally culpable for the crime as he was as a child, will not receive appropriate compensation outside of Disneyland. In which case, the assumptions of my argument still stand. You should make a separate point of forcing the Mexican government to responsibly use those funds.\n\nAlso, if you think that's such an integral part of your argument, put it in your original analogy. Don't simplify what you clearly can't afford to.\n\nEdit, due to moderator locking: If we have knowledge of likely harm to another despite another party's responsibility, do we not hold ourselves responsible for intervening, to some degree or another, as well? This is a basic assumption for common morality and goodwill.", "So, you advocate making exceptions to the law based on... feelings? Strong argument, man. You must be a real legal scholar.", "Actually not. You very clearly just stated that \"singling out one group as the most vile of the bunch\" is not idiotic. That is your argument. Also presented your own strawman by saying \"who cares if we did something horrible hundreds of years ago\" referring to European colonials. I have already said in no way is this acceptable behavior in the modern era with established laws. Do you deny Native Americans committing atrocities against one another, or do you sincerely believe that they sat around all day smoking the peace pipe singing kumbaya and preaching pacifism?", "I feel so bad for that family. But, and there is a huge but, if we continue to let more and more people in that don’t seek full citizenship we’ll simply collapse. We can’t maintain a population that’s not even part of the legal population on paper. Kinda a side note, but the best and brightest from all over the world come to America and leave their home countries with far fewer capable doctors, engineers, etc (with the exception of a lot of wonderful nations) It’s a viscous cycle that seems to have no morally correct answer. ", "I would just get rid of the useless crap and streamline the application process. That way good people would be able to get into the US and they wouldn’t feel pressured to go through illegally. Of course realistically that would never happen due to our government being slow to change.", "I'm happy there are guys like you on reddit. Not enough. It's usually either extreme liberals or extreme right wing. ", "He's spent over 20 years of his adult life willingly choosing to live here illegally. He's an adult who continuously broke the law and now he's being punished for it. That's justice.", "Yeah, but his kids won't want to go to Mexico, they have no connection to the country.", "Not for Mexican citizens ", "Here in Minnesota a guy I work with took a couple days off work awhile ago. His reason? \"I gotta go pick up my wife at the border\". He's a citzen, she is not. He said she gets deported every few years and he just drives down and gets her.", "Actus rhea doesn’t apply to 10 year olds. \n\n/hands you a bag of dicks to eat. \n\nYou are welcome!", "As u/BaconAsperger said before me, it is just an expression. You are just arguing semantics. I am obviously aware that he was not a legal citizen of the country; otherwise this entire post would not even exist.", "So full of straw men that I could be here all day knocking them down.", "What ", ">I could imagine that such case would be defensible in some jurrisdiction in the world.\n\nNot that anybody has been able to reference.", "I think trump won office because we dont invest enough into education.", ">The problem isn't a lack of work available\n\nGo ask the poor who are bound by minimum wage laws, to which illegals routinely undercut. Kind of hard for menial laborers to gain marketable skills when they can't compete.", "There is no compassion built into laws sorry. Either all can come or none, which way would you have it? ", "Yeah, I agree with you. Just doesn’t seem right to hold kids responsible for the actions of their parents. ", "That is pretty fucked.", "You have to realize how a progressive tax system works.... let's say guy A makes $25k, Guy B makes 150k, and Guy Trump makes $25M... ALL THREE pay the same tax rate on their first $25k, then guy B pays more only on the amount above $25k, just for example, and on up... so technically Guy B and Trump pay the same tax rate on their first $150k, trump just pays more on the tax brackets above that amount... We do need the very top spending back in for capitalism to survive or we will devolve into a serf kingdom of 90% poor working for the 10% wealthy.", "Did you know Obama deported more illegals then the last 6 presidents combined?", "Even if he tried to get legal citizenship, he'd have to cross back into MExico, be barred for 10 years from applying, get a green card and then wait another 10 years to get citizenship.\n\nthe productivity and contributions made by him in the last 30 years should negate any need to deport him. And now with him deported, his family will most likely fall under public assistance, so rather than letting him stay and provide for his family, you will have to pay taxes to make sure his legal kids are taken care of. Overall, the move costs the US more than anything.\n\nAnd so you don't sound like an uniformed idiot on immigration, here's an article explaining why getting citizenship isnt like applying for a job\n\nhttps://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/us-citizenship-process-not-as-easy-as-you-may-think", "So we should not punish people because they are parents?", "Honestly, it's such a complicated process. Neither of us are lawyers, but we're both pretty smart. So we opted to save on hiring an immigration lawyer. Even still, trying to understanding all the ins and outs of the law is mind-numbing, and it's entirely reasonable that we could have misunderstood some of it. \n\nCrossing our fingers hoping that decision to save several thousand wasn't a stupid one. Thanks for your insights.", "I too don’t understand juxtaposition and irony. We need a more clear OP!", "I think this is because the que for legal immigration is so ridiculously long as is . They want to discourage people from coming in illegally ", "Please provide proof that he was on welfare and didn't pay taxes", "Well that was a very reasonable response. No name calling, blaming, or finger pointing. Thank you. ", "His family really f-ed him over...", "That is a symptom of massive wealth disparity, and it will only get worse. \n\nIf $100 was spread between 10 people, and one guy had $90 of it: Would we be complaining about him paying nearly all of the taxes... or that he had all of the resources?", "Wait what? You saw Trump's tax return? When did he release that?\n\nOoohhhh... You're just making shit up because you've been triggered by people supporting this.", "Ok? Then he should have done that. ", "Right, 10 year-olds definitely get to decide whether they cross borders. That makes perfect sense. I suppose if I break into a bank, and carry my kid with me, he'll be going to jail for the robbery too right?", "Sure whatever floats your boat.", "The one that says people who have entered illegally, a long time ago, are too be treated like someone caught walking across the border last night. Two different situations. And even then, I believe those people should get the chance before a judge to argue to stay here. ", "> It's called compassion you obtuse cunt.\n\nI feel like an attorney would be better at arguing a point and convincing someone than this. ", "Sweet blanket statement", "> was told it was different because I'm Canadian. Why exactly would it be different?\n\nYou speak the same language, have (essentially) the same culture. Do you have a college degree? Grad degree? Trade school? Career? \n\nThen you are a far better candidate than, say, a typical illegal from Mexico who doesn't speak the language, isn't educated, and has no real specialized skills. \n\nThat's why. Not everything is based on racism. \n\n\n\n", "No he would still be illegal there too...", "Are you really so stupid that you think his parents doing something means that he did something illegal? You shouldn't be allowed to live in this country, we would all be better off if he took your place.", "Do you want a real answer? No, they shouldn't. And It's confusing and complicated, but I'll try to explain why.\n\nSociety depends on redistribution of wealth through taxation that results in effectively having the wealthy pay the basic expenses of the poor. Without effective redistribution, the result over time is a single person (or family) amassing all of the wealth, and everyone else either starving to death or revolting and killing the rich people and taking all of their money anyway. Neither option is ideal, but history will show us that the latter is far more likely. Whenever the rich get greedy to the point that they are actively widening the wealth gap (as they have in the USA over the last 20 years), the result has always been revolution and guillotines.\n\nIf the wealthy want to save any part of what they've amassed, they need to make sure everyone else feels wealthy, too. The \"I got mine, fuck you\" attitude is the same as \"let them eat cake\" and that, frankly, doesn't end well for the wealthy.\n\nIf you want to live in a stable society, you should support taxes that ease the burden on the poor and raise the mean standard of living without bankrupting the super-rich. Asking the wealthy to pay taxes commiserate with the amount of wealth they possess is not even redistribution, but simply maintaining the balance of wealth and the status quo. To truly correct, we would need to overtax the wealthy for a number of years, which would give more money to the public, jump-starting the consumer economy and ultimately drive everyone's finances higher.\n\nI know that seems counter-intuitive, but it is literally how the consumer economy works. Give one person $100 and 99 people nothing, and you get almost no spending or economic growth. Give all 100 $1 each, and everyone spends and, in turn, earns like crazy.", "Okay, should have gone through the legal process in the first place. Logic and country before feelings. Empathy drive societies to self-destruction. Look at Europe.", "As the most pasty gringo in the world whose wife of 13 years is about to get her citizenship, you’re wrong on all kinds of levels. People come here illegally all the time and work through the process in hundreds of different ways. Our immigration laws are so crazy and unenforced that I don’t blame all of you for not understanding even a fraction of what goes on. It’s truly nuts. ", "When you're 10...\n\nMy dude, not all laws are just. We shouldn't uphold them just because they are the law. Pretty much no one is saying that he hasn't actually broken they law, or that the law as written provides him some relief. \n\nI find it fascinating that there are basically two groups in this debate. The first is saying that \"this is wrong, this shouldn't be the way that the law is.\" The second group is saying that \"he deserved it for x reason.\" That second group isn't arguing the merits of the law, only that it exists (a fact not in dispute), and then are gloating over it. That's kinda twisted to my mind, but in any case is indicative of a probably insurmountable value gap between the two parties.", "No, I didn't want you to keep being an ignorant jerk, so I explained to you why you were wrong. ", "> Because there are job opportunities and a chance for a better life in his country.\n\n\nYou realize you are talking about MEXICO right? You have no clue what you are talking about.\n\n\n>They come here for work mostly.\n\n\nThey come here to get out of that shithole Mexico. They have no plans on going back after getting a taste of how great our country is compared to theirs.\n\n\n>I don't understand how you are so completely lost here.\n\n\nBuddy, you are the one that needs a map.\n", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ifOMZgF0nM", "Good! Finally on MLK day, immigration laws are being upheld on this land! I’m sure Dr King would have wanted the same too for our country!", "Why can't the family just move to Mexico? I'd do that to keep my family together.", "My grandparents did it, took them 7 years. This man is a bum.", ">This nation used to be a shining star. Now it's becoming a symbol of indecency.\n\nI think that's always been the case, technology has helped spread awareness amongst the common folk of what really happens. We are indeed living in a fucked up time where war against race/religion is no longer hidden anymore.", "Without borders there would be anarchy. Countries provide structure, and although flawed, are much better than the alternative: non-existence.\n\nWhat would you suggest we do instead of countries, borders, and dare I say patriotism.", "This is an option he has now, but hasn't had access to for the majority of his life. The point still stands that he didn't really have any viable options to become a legal resident due to circumstances outside his control", "See, youre a prime example of what I was talking about, thanks for proving my point!\n\nI never advocated for socialism, just for proper social services.\n\nHow is capitalism working for america? Seems like the average joe here is worse than the average joe in the rest of the developed world.\n\n\"Anti-intellectualism\" is a coordinated effort by the GOP and corporations to\"dumb down\" the population by gutting the education system, this has been documented, so its abaolutely happening and your an example of the effects (from the looks of it).\n\nHope that clears things up, man.", "No.. he was illegal. It's a law issue. Doesn't matter what nationality or race he was.", "Lol. Easier? the law is not even complete. If for example you get married inside the US while legally in the US and file for adjustment of status while still legally in the US, but do not get a resolution on your case before your current elgal visa expires you enter into a weird status of waiting for adjustment of status. Is this legal for you to stay or not? The law does not say. ICE has a white paper on this subject to provide guidance to their employees what to do ie leave these people alone but there is no law that says so. \n\nThis weird status gives you a right for a temporary driving license even. But are you legally int he country or not? It is decided based on how your adjustment of status goes ie on things that have not happened yet...", "That's the true problem with out immigration.", "Yeah, nothings stopping them, but they're Americans and likely want to, ya know, remain in their country like most other Americans. Remain, live, work, and grow up with their father", "His parents fucked him over - damn shame", "It has nothing to do with that. Putting emotions aside, I believe there is a logical reason for this. And I’m no the only one who thinks that. If you have both you will ruin society/the country. If you have a program in place for you country where the entire population (we will say 1000 people) are able to say get housing if they can’t afford it, get free food, drinks, groceries what not and also will pay for your health and medical visits/problem. Now 7.6 billion people can come to your country and also get those same benefits (not saying the entire population of the world will because it’s not possible to fit everyone in that country and some people actually like the country they live in). \n\nWhere does all this money come from? You would be ignorant to says that everyone who comes will pull their own weight from a monitory standpoint. Surely we can both agree on that?", "https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_of_removal", "You need to be here legally before you can actually become a citizen. There's not much the guy could have done given his situation. ", "Do you think incentivizing investments is a good thing or bad thing for the economy?", "No. I think the people who are knee-jerk voting against politicians who mention the word amnesty are racist. And I think this because I read their posts on the internet and I listen to them be interviewed, and they say openly racist and hateful things.", "Nobody got deported until Trump got elected, right?", "Civil rights", "I DECLARE CITIZENSHIP!!!", "If he entered the country under his own volition (when he's an adult) then yes you'd be correct. He was brought here when he was a child and and for all intents and purposes is American. He cannot go through the legal means to even become an American due to his parents bringing him here illegally - this is Kafkaesque. ", "See ya!", "Did he earn it?", "It’s 13C in Vancouver and it hasn’t had any snow that stuck so let’s not all pretend that the entirety of Canada is some frigid ice chest 10 months a year.\n\nSouthern Vancouver Island (which is more affordable than metro Vancouver) has had snow once since Feb 2012 and it lasted all of 30 hours.", "But if youre here illegally, applying will get you deported. ", "Question for you. If I'm a Mexican that wants to emigrate to the U.S., but I have no family here in the U.S., nor do I have a graduate degree, nor am I model, or professional athlete. How do I come here legally?", ">These aren't illegal immigrants though\n\nThen what would you call them? The whole point of their journey here is to illegally circumvent laws to gain citizenship for their children then themselves. ", "Chill out Booby.", "Bridge?", "One again, like described in detail throughout this entire comment section.. he has a 10 year ban. ", "Seems pretty reasonable to have someone who has spent their entire formative life in this country go to another country, that they dont remember living in, where their family may no longer live, leaving behind all of their friends and family, to try to find a job and place to live while they wait to maybe come back to the US all because they had the audacity to be brought here as a small child infant with no say in the matter. ", "The Donald has been posting about MLK all day and doing some mental gymnastics because of some shit one of his relatives said. A few of them are completely deluded about how MLK would somehow be at odds with many liberal policies or with democratic politicians in general... I understand that perhaps in some ways BLM and MLK wouldn’t get along but they are on the same page about non violence and a lot of things, only difference being MLK probably wasn’t as inclusive when it comes to some other groups/identities, but even on that account I think that is a product of MLK’s place in history not of his moral fiber or beliefs.", "Was he a citizen? No? Then this is 💯 right", "Not our problem.", "It's almost like theyre trying to discourage illegal immigration or something. ", "He missed Psy 101.", "That doesn't make sense. Regardless, you're also wrong about the legislation. Clearly states unlawful ENTRY, not re-entry. ", "I mean sure, don't break the law. But he was 10 he didn't have a choice.", "> I guess in my mind it seemed like there just had to be a path for someone who was already here and productive with roots\n\nI mean at this point you have just legalized any sort of undocumented immigration attempts, and encouraged all such people who do so to lay low for several years rather than engage productively in the economy.", "That’s awesome. Way to go America. Now, he’s completely fucked because he’s got dick nothing in Mexico, the family is torn apart and We The People get to pay for their government assistance which won’t be enough to keep the bills at bay. Maybe we should go ahead and drug test them all while we’re at it. Wouldn’t want any lazy druggies abusing the system, after all. ", "You really think he chose to move to the USA at ten years old? ", "That is not true. You qualify for DACA if you came under 16. Only way he doesn’t qualify if he has a criminal conviction. They just have to apply for DACA and have no criminal convictions ", "The worst part of this picture for me is the look on his face. You can tell he wants to be emotional about this but has to be strong for his wife and kids in an unjust situation. ", "> I'm White with a triple digit IQ. I'll manage anywhere\n\nI can't stress enough how /r/iamverysmart this is. Where did you even get your 'IQ' tested anyways?", "Yeah, like Canada who is stricter. Maybe Mexico who has policies that mirror the US. Where were you thinking? Somewhere in the EU? The Netherlands? All have just as strict immigration standards. ", "We never had it. We are a lands of laws..not a land of feels. ", "https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/special-procedures-noncitizen-minors-removal-proceedings.html\n\n“Minors can be deported for entering the US without being inspected”\n\n", "I don't know if that's all because you're white, man.", "The British route appears to be \"pass immigration law through parliament and then follow that law.\"\n\nWhat people in this thread want is \"sometimes not enforce a law, probably most of the time we will maybe but sometimes we wont if they seem like a nice guy we'll just ignore the law.\"\n", "Hm seems like your article is talking about global wealth distribution, while mine looks at American wealth distribution. The gap is alarming to me in either case, but I assumed we were talking about the US which is why I wanted to clarify. ", "It's all your fault. You didn't accept the choices of the righteous. The morning shall Dawn a new day and you will run out of soup and animal crackers. ", "Spousal visas are exempt from the country specific quotas.", "Yes, there are. He might have to leave the country and do it that way but it wasn’t impossible. ", "I share your feelings but your country was never a shining star... Your history is filled with violence and injustice...\n\nOh, I’m canadian btw, we’re not different...", "dude had 30 years to get citizenship... ", "Well what would you do realistically to fix it? ", "Sure, Obama was a racist mass-deporter too. Oh wait, Trump is racist for deporting illegals, but Obama was different.", "It has nothing to do with MLK but being Reddit you throw that in a title like this and get EXTRA karma. ", "I am not entertaining the disneyland analogy. Sorry. Not going to happen.\n\nOn the actual issue, it was the parents decision to enter the states illegally. I agree they should've entered legally but that did not happen. The children should not have their entire lives ruined because of choices their parents made; especially decades later.", "is this a real comment ", "You're a criminal if you drove faster than the speed limit today. Makes sense to focus more resources on violent criminals and national security threats.", ">You may disagree with the law, but it's still the law.\n\nThis is how I spot teenagers on the internet. Statements like these. I'm not knocking you, and it's not really even your fault. Coming from an environment of strict rules and zero-tolerence policies (school) makes you think there are no gray areas and that there is nothing but absolutism. Its just what your frame of reference has been. I can't wait till you have to take your freshman philosophy class in college. Its gonna blow your mind! ", "Vote 2018. Take back our country from these soulless bastards.", "How would you obtain a marriage license then? So he's not legally married? This is confusing but also ridiculous. It seems like there are some gray areas that could be explored in cars like this but what proof would he have that this was his situation (brought at age ten)?", "That’s terrible", "He was 10..", "Seems like hard-working people--who have seen struggle and are motivated to come for opportunities they wouldn't otherwise have--could probably benefit the US if we give them the opportunity. Of course, assuming this whole America First thing is somehow determined to be the way it has to be done -- but as you said, \"who determines...\"? Certainly not you or I, at least not individually.\n\n", "\"Knowingly\"...if he was brought there as a child at the age of 10, what was he to do? By the time he was an adult, he'll have lived practically half his life in the states, grew up there, everyone he knows and loves and possibly the few work opportunities he has are there, but lets just willy nilly cross back over the border (without being caught by border patrol too, mind you) because that's so easy, right?\n\nI mean, if he was an adult who illegaly immigrated to the US, then sure. But the guy was brought over when he was just a kid - doesn't sound like he had a lot of choice in the matter.", "We won't get to see his own kids for that long", "bring on the downvotes, and i'm all for diversity and not racist at all, but maybe....just maybe a country should have strict immigration policies to protect its borders and culture. Look at Japan, they are the most protective xenophobic country on earth but we worship their culture and policies because it's part of Japanese tradition. Americans act like being a good humanitarian is just opening your borders up to anyone. look throughout history and see how that tactic served the nations of the world. fucking idiots. dude came here illegally too, so yeah, i don't feel sorry in the least. ", "I’ve agreed with the deportation, just not the ensuing 20yr delay. \n\nBear in mind that applying as an undocumented automatically flags you to be deported ASAP. It’s a Catch-22: try to become legal = gone now; keep head down illegally = maybe never have an issue. \n\nI’m simply proposing that there needs to be a process that sits in the Grey area rather than being so B&W. I don’t know what it is, I’m only human, but what’s happening here seems too far to one extreme. ", "First religion became race, now immigration status has become race?! No wonder the word has totally lost any effectiveness when it's thrown about so often.", "I haven’t the foggiest, hopefully someone else chimes in to answer your question.", "I'd guess he has a much higher proportion of native Americans ancestry than you. Funny he is \"illegal\" in his own ancestral homeland.", "So he entered JUST AFTER Reagan had given amnesty. Damn.", "You can't apply to be a citizen if you're already here illegally", "> 45.7% of the total sum of income tax\n\nWhat about the loopholes they find to avoid that with the help of the top dollar lawyers they hire?", "not when i'm raging at the overwhelming lack of compassion presented here", "why wouldn't DACA cover to 18", "Honestly, looking back on it I shouldn't of said such a thing. We are all God's children at the end of the day. Forgive me. I wont delete the post because I learned to accept my mistakes.", "Easy to say because we aren't breaking the law.\n\nHe chose to start a family in a place where he was not legally a resident. He brought these consequences on his family himself.", "Has it been explained all the reasons why he is being deported? ", " It was a general question because If he never got a social security number how does he work without dodging taxes? And if he somehow has a social security number and pays taxes and can't vote, isn't that taxation without representation? ", "I think that access to birth control is more prevalent today than any other time in history. And while it isn't where it should be, sexual education is probably more widespread than ever before as well. I think the main contributing factor to population increases in the US is people live longer than they used to. It probably isn't due to lax immigration laws though. Just my two cents. ", "A pardon does not ignore the law, it follows it.", "Guess he shouldn't have started a family while being illegal then huh?", "When did I defend him? I said there's a very real reason that people showed to vote and a large portion of that is of people that were sick of being labeled as dumb white hicks.\n\nTo add on to it, I went to a top engineering school, where the only non-engineering degree was Economics. Colorado School of Mines. Look it up. Well I can plainly tell you that I can't name a SINGLE person that was a Democrat. Most were Republican and/or Libertarian. Were all those future builders and inventors also dumb, redneck hicks? You really want those people designing bridges?", "so fucking what", "We call them \"illegals\" because it's shorter than saying \"illegal immigrant.\" We call tax evaders exactly that because as far as I know it doesn't have any cool nicknames or abreviations. ", "Hey, man, if it helps you to label me a racist then go right ahead. The truth is that I’m just against illegal immigration. I get why you’d want to label us racists, though. I’m sure you think that calling us racists invalidates our cause but you’re wrong. \n\nThe truth is that I just agree with the current immigration policy and expect immigrants to follow the same rules as the other 41 million immigration grants currently residing in the United States of America lol", "I'm pretty sure you can't apply from within the US. From what I've heard from some illegals I known, you have to go back to Mexico to apply then wait. Although I'm not sure what prevents them from doing that then just sneaking back in.", "I'm so confused by this whole comment that I can't even think up a snappy comeback. I'm pretty sure I'm being trolled at this point. ", "We deserve to be nuked because we are now enforcing the law? Get out your moms basement dude.", "> True, just pointing out that a SSN isn't mandatory. \n\nTo work in the US you must fill out an I-9 form, this form, as I have proven to you, required the SSN if you are a US citizen?", "Political motivation is a hell of a drug.... ", "MMM yes very interesting. You'll crack this case one day Sherlock. ", "\"Pfft, only losers back up their opinions with facts and logic.\"", "https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancellation_of_removal", "Should I recite all the laws in this nation state by state that are erroneous, absurd and not enforced or would you feel embarrassed citing that it's a \"law\" so it has to be enforced? When you were in your moms stomach did you select \"USA\" as country of birth? You degenerate reject.", "Just image at 18 you realize your here illegally. What do you do? Go back to some country you have no memory of, or stay some where where you feel at home.", "Why do you think they don't become citizens?? Could it possibly be the welfare benefits? Lol", "Doing anything illegal is an ethics violation by definition. It means you lack the ethics to abide by the law. ", "Why in 30yrs didn't he become a citizen? Since everywhere is candy-land and shitholes don't exist whats the issue? ", "do you understand how hard it is to re-enter this country once you've been deported?\n\n", "Nope! You're super misinformed. Well, it's not your fault. I guess I should say misled, or lied to, or duped.\n\n>Research shows that illegal immigrants increase the size of the U.S. economy, contribute to economic growth, enhance the welfare of natives, contribute more in tax revenue than they collect, reduce American firms' incentives to offshore jobs and import foreign-produced goods, and benefit consumers by reducing the prices of goods and services.[7][12][13][14][15] Economists estimate that legalization of the illegal immigrant population would increase the immigrants' earnings and consumption considerably, and increase U.S. gross domestic product.[7][16][17][18][19][20]\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States", "So you want them to be be undocumented Mexican citizens when there whole lives have been in the US? The dads whole life has pretty much been in the US, this is just pointlessly destroying families", "I would also like to see citation for this, because that's a hefty statement: undocumented workers contribute more than they take out... Bullshit.", "Boo fucking hoo", "Leave then, I will buy you a ticket.", "Well this fella was brought over when he was 10 years old. That's not his fault. What could he have done? ", "> That's equality. \n\nExcept that hits the poor a lot harder than the rich.", "https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/us-citizenship-process-not-as-easy-as-you-may-think\n\n99/100 cases are sent back to their original country of origin and barred 10 years before the process can even begin", "Some will try to tell you it’s impossible. But you can literally find the info (as could he). In 5 minutes on immigration’s website. Hundreds of thousands have applied and been granted. It was just a case of laziness.", "Yes he could have. ", "Open borders would destroy any country.\n\nThat’s actually insane that you think that’s remotely a good idea.", "\"The Republicans possibly can't be bad! I'll just take his quote and put replace it with Democrats because they're the bad ones.\"", "But I like it ", "Hitler declared Jews to be illegal as part of his campaign to incite anti-semitism. It was quite effective.\n\nI have no interest in being brainwashed with similar rhetoric. But you do you. ", "You literally wrote “do it right the first time” lol what a moron", "Literally my favorite example of an utter lack of self awareness from progressives was comparing European settlers to illegal immigrants and refugees.\n\nIt was half my Facebook wall on Thanksgiving.", "What? I do want to and always will live in a country that upholds laws over someones feelings. They aren't putting him in jail or harming him, they are deporting him as he is not legal resident (or at least as far as I know). Also I don't get how this is heartless compared to all those refugees and immigrants that never even got to live in country like the US. He appears to have it really damn good in comparison to most people on earth. ", "It's not possible to apply for citizenship if you're already in the US illegally", "Can confirm, lived in Alaska, Canadian border patrol was way more intense than American. ", "Sure. My only point is that law and morality are not the same and in fact are often in conflict. As this is a post talking about MLK I'll point to him and his compatriots as an example. They did think that segregation laws were unjust, they did ignore those laws, they did get arrested and they did lose their cases and many were imprisoned for years. And then some of the laws were changed to be a bit more just. This is the mindset of civil disobedience everywhere. Do you disagree with the rationale of MLK? The goal is to change the laws, not protect myself from consequences for breaking unjust laws. ", "r/extremelyinfuriating", "\" especially considering he was a contributing member to society\" yeah, obviously that's the case...", "Words of a true wiseman. \n\nYou’re ugly. I guess you’re also a piece of shit. ", "Yes they are cold but the Mediterranean is a days drive away. Also plane rides are expensive. ", "He is here because of his parents. Being here without being a citizen or without a visa is illegal. Meaning he did something illegal for the past 30 years. ", "What if he didn't have any connections back in mexico? He'd be alone, have to pay for a place to live, find a job, and wait an indefinite amount of time away from his family. \n\n\nI agree that they need to obtain legal status, but it seems like it's way harder than it should be, especially for someone who was brought here as a kid. The system needs some revamping. ", "As an American, it's a head scratcher for me, and disgusting.", "The irony ", "Hey man, it's become taboo to hate people who want to destroy our way of living don't you know? The people of this country don't have a right to decide how their own countries should function. We must humbly accept the fact that we have become a doormat for the rest of the world /s.", "No, theyre not. Who come from canada, the u.k, sweden, norway, germany or france to have a kid here?\n\nIf you actually think that, then you need to seriously reevaluate where youre getting your information from, and your biases", "I have a very hard time believing this guy got a ITIN at 18 years old and paid state and federal taxes every year for 30 years. It doesn't make sense. ", "My father came illegal. No money. Got his citizenship in 7 years. Millionaire now. My mother same thing. Ilegal married my dad and she and my sister got their citizenship with 5 years. My brother in law. Illegal. Got married to my sister. Got citizenship in 9 years. Youre in this country illegally. You’re priority was to provide for your family and get your papers. I don’t know about this guy but a lot of Latinos are just way too comfortable being illegal. Now the pressure is on and they’re complaining and worrying. They should’ve talked to a lawyer and figured shit out when Obama was in office. Temporary means not forever. Illegal means you’re not suppose to be here. Get it together. Stop playing the victim. \nBtw I’m from one those “shithole” countries. ", "I mean, I gotta ask: 30 years should be enough time to apply for citizenship, right?", "Ask him how the alternative is working out for him now.", "Yes. I mean, his circumstances still could be quite sympathetic. If he returned to Mexico for 2 weeks for his grandfather’s funeral when he was 25 and then paid a coyote to sneak him in, the 10 year bar would apply. ", "So his family is not allowed to leave with him and live together in another country? ", "It’s not “your own” money. Everyone pays into it to some extent, but it’s not like you put in $20 and later take out $20. These programs make up 80% of our budget, so clearly it’s not poor people simply taking their own money back. Poor people don’t have that much money to begin with. These programs are subsidized by the rich. Period. \n\nAlso, I’m not even making a moral judgment regarding these programs. I’m replying to the previous statement which attempted to justify upperclass taxes based on their use of roads etc. Most taxes don’t go to roads. Wealthy people pay most of our taxes, and most of that money goes to entitlements. It’s simple. ", "Trump just let off a bank he owes money to that was conducting illegal actively. Go fuck yourself with \"illegal immigrants\", as if the law maters to conservatives. ", "Looks like he's gotta sneak back in.", "This is evil. This is wrong. What I have just said is not an opinion, it is a fact.", "Hes not an American tbough he did have 30 years to become one.", "I understand that. Unfortunately, Mexico doesn’t have refugee status. These people are our neighbors and they’re starving, dying from easily treatable diseases, and being killed by violence. AFAIK, and I could be wrong, but a Mexican cannot enter this country under refugee status. These people are not taking our jobs, they’re not as violent as the right wants you to believe like they’re some kind of barbarian, and they’re not coming over to sell guns and drugs. Not any more (actually much less per capita) than our fellow American citizens born and raised here. \n\nIllegal immigrant is a term to describe their citizenship and I think too often we confuse it with a term to describe a person. ", "Your examples are off topic and that's why I didn't address them. This isn't a discussion about white collar crime. It's a discussion about immigration law. \n\nYou don't understand that your white collar crime example is not an equal protection clause issue. Your example would be proper if you asserted that wealthy illegal immigrants aren't ever deported. That would be an EPC issue. A quick google found this story of a wealthy business owner fighting deportation, demonstrating that EPC is being upheld and people are deported for one sole reason: being here illegally. \n\nhttps://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-rich/rich-illegal-immigrants-in-u-s-hide-in-shadows-idUSN2533661620080206\n\nI know you want to make exceptions for people out of \"compassion\", but that's simply unconstitutional. ", "Gasp! Who are we gonna punish next? Jaywalkers, people who feed the homeless? Mormons???????????\n\nThe humanity!!!", "Thinking out loud here, not sure if I am right, but they share a border with the US, a country very similar to theirs culturally and economically. Fewer people are trying to get there from their bordering country to pursue a better life.\n\nEdit: basically, I am trying to say in a nice way that they don't border Mexico, so these problems don't seem or aren't as widespread. Sorry if this thought is offensive.", "> Whites are on path for becoming a racial minority in this country and I don't want that.\n\nWhites make up 72% of the population, You're not even close to being a racial minority when the closest highest race is blacks which are 12%. \n\n> Nobody should celebrate becoming a racial minority. \n\nIt's a country we started where anyone can come here, so long as it's legal and they are a productive member of society, there's literally 0 issue lol. \n\nI actually don't understand your logic whatsoever, especially your other comment linking the whole south africa thing, you think America is going to become that if Whites aren't the majority lol? what? \n\nFirst off, in what world do we even treat minorities like that in the United States, I'm glad we're shooting Blacks, Asians and Middle Easterns with machine guns all the time. If anything, because of identity politics, minorities get way more benefits and sympathy for being \"POC\" and have to deal with social issues like stereotyping as a negative aspect. Oh no, so bad. Like lol what? ", "I question whether the child knew that it was legal or not legal ( or even understood what that means in a big picture of sort of way ) .that's a fairly big concept that even what I presumed to be adults are grappling with, just by viewing the Reddit comments . if your entire argument has itself weighted on the childs understanding of this then I think it is up for interpretation - however I would like to respond your post with a question : why play so much emphasis on whether the dad in the article was lazy or not ?", "Fuck u, Canada has enough problems", "Probably because he was 10 and knew fuckall about it. ", "That sucks America.\n", "You have honestly never heard the phrase \"you buy a house, you make a home?\" Are you serious?", "Why? What’s the reasoning", "We're not forcibly uprooting a family to move to the US. They are making that decision on their own. \n\n\nWhat a stupid fucking question ", "#WALL", "Policing? I was stating a fact. “Undocumented” is the politically correct term, something you were hilariously ignorant of. Nice one, bud. ", "This guy is fucked. My wife is German and has 3 higher learning degrees, and has the right skin/hair color. Her immigration process has been fairly predictable, albeit very slow. ", "He was one of how many today?\nAnd how many yesterday?\nAnd tomorrow?\nAnd in the last eight years?\n\nNice story but its nothing new or special unfortunately.\n", "What about birthright citizenship? If I remember correctly, even if you’re an illegal immigrant, if you have a child in America, the child and it’s parents are granted citizenship. Unless the law itself has been scrapped without my knowledge, or my recollection is mistaken entirely.", "It does good to the country. If you tried right now to become a citizen of Japan you would understand how difficult it is. He just cheated. He knew for thirty years he was here illegally. He had a chance to figure it out, or at least set up a home in his actual country. ", "No actually he didn’t have 30 years to become one, he couldn’t have applied for a visa or anything while being here he would’ve had to been deported first then apply for everything ", "Do you live there? Because he does. I have friends over in the UK. Shits fucked.", "No one is suggesting the US turn into Stalin's or Mao's regime. Some things need to be socialized and some things already are socialized. \n\nThe word itself is like kryptonite to Americans. We'd rather be robbed blindly with criminally expensive education and medical costs rather than do something that somehow reminds them of the 'Red Scare'. ", "This breaks the liberal virtue signaling argument", "... no.", "Illegal alien. ", "How do you think would have played out if he tried to become a citizen? ", "He’s got his legal citizenship in Mexico :)", "> So there is actually a waiver if you enter illegally as a child. You have until you are 18 and 6months to leave the US without penalty.\n\nHow is that a practical option though? I'm an American but at 18 I had a hard enough time dealing with normal 18 year old stuff, let along going to friggin Mexico to build a life with no support. What would he even do?\n\nThe only difference between me and this guy is luck of the draw.\n\nThis is bullshit. Fuck Trump.", "On the SS thing, a stolen SSN is very common for illegals, as it allows them to work, apply for loans, etc. Thry arent usually the actual thieves, but rather they buy stolen SSNs. Still, the market of illegals makes certain stolen SSNs are a hot commodity. \n\nJudge as you will, but the chances of this guy having a stolen identity is high. ", "If only there were some way to prevent this. ", "Yeah, but he won't need to wait 10 years just to apply.", "Really? Which part? That King was very religious and against all of those things that are core to the Democratic party platform, or that those things are core to the Democratic Party platform?", "Ironically she sounds like the kind of mother who would eventually require some government intervention.", "I've had friends from Europe overstay their visa by 2 weeks -> 5 year ban\n\nNever heard a story involving 10 years up until now. It's always been 5 years.\n", "Stop implying there are swaths of unskilled US laborers just clamoring to do a vast majority of what migrant workers are here doing.", "Never said he spoke for every single immigrant that came to the US.\n\nI'm saying he dislikes how they make it harder for legal immigrants to come the to the US and they are breaking the law. \n\nIf they are caught breaking the law by being illegal immigrants then why do you feel like they should get a pass?\n\nNot all illegal immigrants are bad like the guy in this article but how do you feel about the illegal who stole a boarder patrol agents gun and kill that one girl?\n\nYou feel like he should be allowed to stay in the US? ", "Dude, please delete your comment. Not safe to post stuff like that here, regardless if you’re divorced now. ", "It’s affecting community morale and work places who can’t replace workers\n\nhttp://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-42667659/the-missing-consequences-of-trump-s-immigration-crackdown", "It's not injustice, it's the law being upheld. ", "They are welcome to join him in his country.", "Are the kids being deported? No. Are they being killed because the father came here illegally? No. Don't bring North Korea into this because you think its emotionally equivalent. I feel bad for the dad, but for fucks sake, the U.S isn't some evil dictatorship.", "This still incentivizes illegal immigration. No need to wait for citizenship approval if there are no repercussions for coming on in and asking permission later. ", "good", "So many \"it's been 30 years he could have become a citizen if he really wanted to.\" You don't know his situation, so it's not right to criticize people without proper information. You don't just become a citizen out of nowhere, it takes time and money. There's people out there who can't even become a citizen even if they wanted to. Every case is different so even if someone here became a citizen it doesn't mean everyone went through the same process or had the same opportunity.", "Fucking disgusting. Republicans are pro life until the baby arrives ", "Rules are rules. Send him back. \n\nThis is what blows my mind. All you libs want to bend the rules to suit whatever you're \"feeling\", yet when the president acts on said rules you scream racism. Double standard much? ", "Have some comparison for your fellow human. ", "Yeah, laws are based on feelings - that’s where our morality comes from. Laws are there (in an ideal world) to keep the population safe and happy.\n\nAnd happy citizens make productive citizens too, right? So edgy people who think feelings shouldn’t matter also get a win!", "Humane morals* \n\nFTFY", "https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/14/richest-1-percent-now-own-half-the-worlds-wealth.html\n\nDo they now?", "In the meantime we'll be paying for public assistance for that family. And instead of actually doing something about it long term, IE ending the drug war that empowers the cartels thus making Mexico a shithole, you dipshits think a wall is going to solve the problem. ", "LATAH BITCH ", "Yeah, pretty sure joining the military for him would have been impossible.", "Education needs a revitalization. The present system doesn't work.", "We already currently have American citizens including veterans who fought with the promise of citizenship for their service who have been deported and forced to live in foreign countries like Mexico and all of them are a lot more loyal and America loving than our GOP politicians who are all for this and our shithole POTUS . We also have where American born children of Mexican descent are not given their Birth Certificates when their immigration status is known they should legally base their status on their own Not their parents especially in cases they can prove the children were born American. I think they should let him stay because without a father they could end up falling on hard times just because he was deported . They forget a lot of these families work , pay taxes, start businesses and contribute to America Not just suck up everything into an endless black hole like Trump and his minion supporters .who aren't. You should also notice the only ones these apply to are Not white people because he does not apply the same rules to illegal immigrants from White European countries that he does to ones that are not.", "They shouldn't be getting a disproportionate amount of the wealth generated by the working class and they've obviously gotten many times their fair share already.", "Where’s that in the constitution, again?", "No immorality in separating children from their father. Nope. None at all. You're a pillar of moral fiber. ", "Because this guy is more in position to support the country than most American citizens living in welfare. Shit nigga , he has more justification being here then all of the shaves form the Atlantic Slave Trade. There could be a numerical iof reason why he didn’t or even couldn’t go to Mexico to try and gain citizenship. \n\nBut shit, if It was me ? I’m doing exactly what he would’ve done. Especially if going to Mexico and applying for that visa isn’t a 100% Guarantee AND if my family depends on that check to check living. ", "That limits you to only have a choice within a party. You can't do something like pick Green party as your first choice and democrats as your second in the GE.", "This is so unamerican. I feel so badly for this family. To be torn apart because of a man that is not sane is just heart breaking. ", "You implied that open borders was even a possibility and that allowing guys like this through would further build that case which is about as stupiid as it gets.", "Because I care about people, and if we can help 800,000 people to have better lives then we should. We can't go back in time and stop them from coming.", "It was individual bankers who broke the law....you know that, right? The amount of people who have no clue why the economy crashed 10 years ago is astounding. \n\n", "You're right, they would need all of those things. And just like that we created thousands of jobs! ", "Just because there are 'laws on the books' doesn't mean it's not discrimination. See Jim Crow.", "considering he ended up marrying an American he could have left the country and THEN married her thus allowing him to very easily get citizenship and or a green card ...ridiculous that he didn't do so back 20 years ago.", "Wow you really are a snowflake", "I know. It's the Canadian part for the government, and the white part for the people I was talking with.", "Sorry. I wasn't aware that China wasn't considered a developed country.", "Just the child has citizenship. ", "imagine how hard it will be after there is a wall lol", "Better than being american. Disgusting.", "I totally agree with you! I will say, however, the more I learn about our history as a nation, the less I think of it as ever being \"great.\" \n", "Coming here illegally isn’t a racial issue though. If he was a white Canadian dude the same thing would happen. ", "Its a shit law that only shit people defend. ", "MLK jr and Cesar Chavez were both united in the belief that illegal immigrants hurt minority communities and were vocal about it. This is a BS post by people who don't know history!", "\"He's just collateral damage\" is a sentence that should never be spoken. That attitude is indefensible.", "So had he started the process sometime in the last 30 years this guy could have been able to stay? Or was he never eligible? ", "As I've said before in another comment, it is entirely possible that he didn't even realize there was a problem. Remember, he was brought here as a child. Children don't generally think about (or even understand) border laws. ", "I'm curious as to how you figure it would benefit exactly? There's a labour shortage going on now, and with the current tech development low-entry jobs like drivers, cashiers and the like are all going out the window and being replaced with efficient and less costly machines. With even current citizens having issues finding jobs that will support their families, I'm not sure what you mean. Not to mention the amount of people in the US living in poverty right now, why aren't you thinking about them and improving their situation? It's very easy to type \"our economy would benefit\" with bolded text but you haven't said anything that would back that claim up.\n\nBut also, where, when and HOW will you draw that line? Because people will never stop being in need, and you will be considered inhumane either way. ", "> It's not possible to apply for a green card while in the US (\"adjust status\") if you entered illegally.\n\n100% correct. However for anyone reading this in a similar situation looking for a loophole, illegally in this context means no port-of-entry and no documentation. If this applies and you are still off ICE's grid you can simply leave the exact same way you got in (i.e. illegally) and pretend none of it ever happened!!! Even if the fucking pope asks directly, you were NEVER in the USA, what is a USA?\n\nThe instant this guy found a fiance (presuming she had legal status) he should have grabbed any Mexican documentation he had and headed back towards Mexico as quickly and stealthily as possible ASAP. Even in the complete absence of any documentation whatsoever he could have bolted for Canada and applied for adjustment from there. Hell even if he were caught just happily take the deportation ride from Canada back to Mexico (they would be extremely confused but just claim you were homeless panhandling on the streets of Toronto for the past 20 years or amensia or whatever). The point is that as long as the USA itself does not know you've illegally crossed the border and stayed in the US for any period of time, the 10-year ban that is about to absolutely wreck this guy does not apply!\n\nTHEN with your newfound clean-slate apply for the K-visa, which AFAIK is relatively fast (<< 6months). Then get married within the 90 day-limit, obtain the conditional green card, then 2 years later petition to remove the condition. Boom you are back inside the USA completely legally within 6 months, with full legal permanent residence within 3 years!", "What does this have to do with MLK day?", "Previous administrations gave him false hope.", "I've seen better trolls than you.", "What about child molesters and they're families? Surely, we shouldn't punish the child molester because it'll rip his family apart? What about rapists or murderers? Crime is crime and there are consequences for committing those crimes.", "This is a particularly nasty comment. Is your proposal that anyone who commits a crime be barred from having a family? ", "How long does that take? Wouldn’t it take a while for them to approve him?", "When was America a shining star? Lol genuinely curious. Every point in American history has a dark underbelly. Whether it be slavery, or economic depression or racism or economic inequality...America is not the star you think it is.", "Well you don't teach compassion by being a jerk back. ", "Because he came here illegally. Why is this surprising ", "> They're paying a US airline to fly them, after buying luggage from US stores, after buying US passports at the US post office, after paying a US travel agency (in USD) to book their hotel and rental vehicle.\n\nMost of these if you do them online the money is going straight to non-US companies. eg: Booking.com is in Amsterdam, the car rental company has economic/tax presence in the destination country, if you fly though Copa Airlines (a popular semi-low-cost airline using Panama as a hub into the Caribbean) money goes to Panama.\n\nBesides, I didn't say that billionaires (or billionaire corporations) need a tax cut, just that they shouldn't get more tax pressure because that discourages investment. There's a delicate balance where if I will only get 20 cents on the dollar then I will stop trying, or would even downsize my companies to reduce risk. Tax havens are a different issue, and the best way to address it is to have sensible policies in place so that people/corporations don't need to hide their money or pull the [Double Irish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement)", "I don't see any other way than wait 10 years to come back. ", "The story of every country and every empire that has, does, or will exist is constantly being written. And I don't even know what point you are trying to make so that is all I have to say", "He came over when he was 10....", "If we had better controls this situation would never have happened. It’s akin to someone breaking out of provision and starting a family. You rip the father away and put him where he belongs. It sucks but he shouldn’t have escaped and created that problem.", "So you're saying that people should be using the correct words that align with how you politically think? Hmmmmmm if only there was a phrase for that. ", "> how retarded you are for thinking disregarding laws for moral reason is okay\n\nJim Crow. But yeah...I'm the retard.\n\nStop thinking laws are a gift from god. They are mostly good, but sometimes they are flawed, problematic rules that can and should be changed when necessary.", "I know that, but there's a very strong incentive to drop an anchor baby since it's the easiest way to cheat the system and cut the line.\n\nI have no problem with helping those escaping violence and war, I do have a problem with slapping in the face those that busted their asses to immigrate legally.", " It's their parents fault..they were breaking the law and they should have known this could happen down the road! Don't blame ICE, blame the parents..ICE is doing a commendable job btw", "It's racist because trump is president. When illlegals got deported under Obama it wasn't racist. ", "Because he never obtained citizenship. It’s kind of important if you want to be considered a citizen.", "Family should follow him.", "I seem to recall one party pushing for legislation for many years that wound up nowhere because of another party. But, yes, i guess this is another case of bothpartiesarethesame", "MLK was of course most famous for his activism for civil rights of African Americans, but when he was alive, he was also famous for his activism in many other issues. To give one example, he was a huge critic of the war in Vietnam and spent a great deal of time advocating for the Vietnamese people.\n\nOne of the concepts he is most famous for is a principle that applies to many issues: the idea that we all have a civic duty to defy unjust laws.\n\n> One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. --Martin Luther King Junior\n\nWhen writing and speaking on this point, he emphasize that it was both patriotic and Christian by expounding on like-minded quotes from figures like Thomas Jefferson...\n\n> If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. --Thomas Jefferson\n\n and St. Augustine.\n\n> An unjust law is no law at all. --St. Augustine\n\nIn short, he is rightly remembered as a hero to African Americans, but it's a travesty that his legacy as a hero of progressive activism in general hasn't also been more widely preserved. The typical portrayal of him as a single-issue activist whose protests avoided ruffling feathers is extremely cherry-picked and white-washed. Perhaps this was done intentionally by politicians who felt threatened, or perhaps it innocently came about because well-meaning elementary school teachers who decided they wanted to teach kids about a heroic African American ended up teaching him in a way that they felt wouldn't lead to their classes being disrupted more often. My guess is both, but you can of course draw your own conclusions.\n\nWhat I think is certain though is that it's a particularly cruel irony that his memory has been warped into something used to chide activists for being disruptively disobedient. Tragically, this has been extremely effective at skewing the American idea of what activism should look like.\n\nAnyway, I hope this sheds some light on how connections can definitely be made from MLK to laws that unjustly deport people who were brought here through no fault of their own and lived their whole lives here. It's great that people are discussing these connections here. (And of course, if you think the law in it's current form is just, then very well. That's obviously a relevant and worthwhile, but different, conversation.)", "I am a legal citizen, he is not. That is what this picture is about.", "So, you've still not said one single thing to support your claim...", "Even worse they try to make this about mlk day too. Like this has anything to do with that to get sob points.", "It's clear he has never seen any non tourist part of Mexico. Just because Trump says something doesn't instantly make it not true.... ", "My friend SWIM popped 200mg with Molly and didn't feel anything after 10 min so he popped 500 more. Now SWIM says his hands feel wet. Will an aspirin help? We don't want to ask his mom to take him to the hosptial. ", "I wish I didn't have to pay any taxes for 30 years...", "We have an effective open border due to the Singh decision.\n\nIn other words, if you apply for refugee status, you must by law be accorded a hearing. But there is no penalty or punishment for skipping said hearing.\n\nWe have more than 30,000 people in the country taking advantage of this loophole and never attending their hearings. Don't see how a few more would hurt. Not sure how anyone would stop them crossing the massively under patrolled border between North Dakota and Washington State.\n\nNot that I'd suggest any of that, mind you.", "Good.", "I’m so sorry this has happened to you.", "No where this hypothetical I'm just saying I'd prefer Europe over Canada. I can drive to Mediterranean in a day trip from most place in Europe. Can't drive to SoCal in a day trip from Canada. ", "... Just move to Canada? ", "I don't understand this. Why wouldn't he just apply for citizenship, get deported, come.back again illegally and wait for his paperwork to come through?", "Thank God this dangerous criminal is now out of our country! I can now rest easy in my all white, middle class suburb knowing that those brave men and women in ICE are keeping our streets safe!", "Is buying a gun a constitutional right? I thought owning a gun was a right, not purchasing ", "Laws are laws.", "Nobody is arguing that. It's ALWAYS been illegal to steal. Your point?", "He was brought here when he was 10. Did you even read the title?", "The only reason you can't entertain the Disney analogy is because you have no argument against it. It's simplified to the point where even people who can't see two days into the future can understand.\n\nWhy should the children not be punished by parents behaviors? It happens every second of every day. Every violent, or harassing act that damages the child forever - and those seem to have much longer lasting negative effects. Why should this be any different? It makes - no - sense . You know it doesn't make any sense but you're a bleeding heart, and think with emotions rather than reason. Yeah, it looks evil on the surface but what's more evil?.. Sending a small minority of people out of the country STILL allowing them the opportunity to legally immigrate or degrading the entire country of Education and medical care? What has a bigger impact to you?\n\nSo many people that think like you have this ridiculous idea as if they are locked out of the country permanantely. If they have something to offer the United States, they will be allowed to immigrate. ", "Oh, have you been doing yours wrong?", "I'm a conservative and while I feel bad for this guy and his family, he made his own bed and must now sleep in it (albeit in another country). He had ~22 adult years to apply for a green card and take the journey to citizenship. Instead he continued to roll the dice and got caught being here illegally.", "B-b-but Trump is a fascist pig and this basically makes him Hitler! ", "I think the thing that gets lost with the \"is it a crime to be here illegally\" debate is simply that it doesn't need to be. It's a civil violation, but it's a civil violation that has eligibility for deportation as one of the codified consequences.", "Yeah, but he lives here and speaks the language and has gotten established. Not so easy to just leave. ", ">the U.S is is home.\n\nYou knew what I meant, his home for the majority of his life at the time he became and adult was Mexico. His mother tongue was Spanish. You can mince words but this isn't some kid who only speaks English and was brought over as a baby. And he has been asked to deport for the last 8 years, he had plenty of time just in his later adulthood to adjust.\n\n\nI don't understand how a system that would let him become a de factor citizen wouldn't be abused. This is naturally an undocumented class, we'd often have little proof of when they entered the country or many of their activities since getting here. Are we just giving a free pass to everyone who had a kid here? Everyone who claims they were brought in before being legally adult? \n\nIt's easy to speak about feel-good stuff without addressing any of the obvious flaws. Anyways, I gotta lay my kids down and then get to bed but I'll reply in the morning if you do.", "Was he an honest taxpayer? I know it’s harsh to ask maybe, but I do feel it’s important.", "Then why would you claim to know?", "> Or are you intending to imply only Democrats are held accountable for their actions and activities?\n\nThey are both accountable. The Democrats failed while they had control. The Republicans currently have control and are working on immigration reform as we speak. If they fail, then they can be held just as accountable. ", "This is Injustice?. I'm really confused how this can be your argument when he's an ILLEGAL immigrants. The Injustice goes to the immigrants who are doing the right thing by following the laws of our countries immigration policies but are hindered and risk stronger immigration policies because these people choose to do this illegally. He was here for over 30 years and didn't even bother to do the right thing. His luck ran out and this is the risk he expected and took. Also...I wonder if he paid taxes like the rest of us. ", "Agreed, we definitely need to make it easier to become a legal citizen. I’m with you 100%", "That's my issue with immigration. Just like all issues they are painted as black and white when in reality the only logical solution is somewhere in the middle. You can't just open your borders, but you can't just kick everyone out and close the borders either. Both are equally bad solutions.", "Lmao the ole' bait and switch", "Could you leave your job and family for 10+ years without any repercussions? All while staying in a country whose language you don't even speak anymore? Because that would have been the proper way for him.\n\nI'm all for deporting criminals or people who don't want to integrate and are a drain on society, but this is just wrong on every level.", "Yes but changing the law and enforcing the law are two completely different things. If we believe as a country this shouldn't happen then change the law, don't ignore it.\n\nWe had 8 years of Obama ignoring Congress and making up whatever laws he wanted and disregarding the laws Congress made that he didn't like. He left with the opinion of Congress at an all time low. He made them irrelevant.\n\nTrey gowdy gives a very impassioned speech about how useless Congress has become because we no longer enforce the laws they create. He's not choosing sides and I recommend watching it. Whatever side you stand on with politics, we need to enforce the law. \n\nhttps://youtu.be/vzZT9gW5gp8\n\n", "\nThis is not my America. \n", "Ironic for a country that was founded on illegal/unwanted immigration and breaking the laws that were in place. ", "So he had 30 years to apply for residency? My mom immigrated legally and so did my wife. A lot of money and hardship why no tears for them. ", "That is indeed a good point", "I was commenting on the article above. If what the article says is true, that’s not ok by any stretch of the imagination and shouldn’t be allowed to happen. \n\nEdit to respond since comments are locked: Feel free to look for yourself if it’s important to you. I didn’t share the article, do the research for the article or make the claims in the article. I simply commented on them. ", "Stats on how effective ICE has been at deporting people?\n\nSomething tells me that for every one that gets deported, dozens (if not more) dont.", ">Objectively false. He made a lovely life for himself, and his parents gave him a far superior opportunity at a good life by bringing him to the United States.\n\nLovely life for himself? He is completely fucked now, because he chose to not follow the laws, and he fucked his kids life up. Sounds selfish to me.\n\n>Yeah, and then just wait another fucking decade to maybe get back into the country where he grew up.\n\nNow, he will be 100% gone for ten years or longer, and have even less of a chance of getting back in. 👍\n\n> Instead, he stayed a worked hard and created a familiy and did normal, everyday American shit for 3 fucking decades, until 2016 rolled around and a bunch of racist cunts decided he wasn't American enough for their degenerate tastes and decided that destroying innocent AMERICAN families was something we really ought to be doing.\n\nOh please, people were getting deported way before 2016. LMAO He deserves to get deported. \n\nHe isn't American BTW. \n\n>Our laws are garbage and so are you.\n\nNot really. \n\n>Yeah, this narrative doesn't really fly when you consider that Trump changed our policy from \"deport criminals and recent arrivals\" to \"deport everybody, no questions asked\",\n\nOur laws were never just \"deport criminals and recent arrivals\". That's just what Obama wanted to enforce. However, even Obama broke up families. IS HE A RACIST? LOL We have been deporting people for decades, because we have LAWS. \n\n>and the racist Republican party shot it down\n\nBecause it's a retarded law. We have borders for a reason. Not so every fuck can come here. \n\n>which is under attack by the racist Republican party\n\nLaws? Cry more?\n\n>AND that Jorge Garcia received multiple stays of deportation from the previous administration.\n\nWell presidents can literally only be president for up to two terms (8 years). New president. :) \n\n>So no, Trump and the Republicans are actually just cunts.\n\nCry more. \n\n>No, it isn't, and nobody wants it to be.\n\nClearly you do. ", "I'm just saying, I'm pretty sure not every illegal imigrant's main reason for getting out of their country is to just have an anchor baby. A lot of them get out for actual tough situations.", "It's bullshit man it's ok. No peaceful citizen should be barred from borders, especially with family on the other side. It's a complete violation of human rights.\n\nIf I were you I wouldn't feel as if it were my fault. You made a reasonable choice trying to make things work.", "It sounds like you two have it under control and you have absolutely no need to worry. I have seen a few dozen marriage-based applications, and they generally run smoothly and are pretty simple, though I can't make too many promises in the Trump era. The point I'm making is one that isn't even relevant to you two, since you've already applied for AOS. I just wanted to make the point to clear up a mild misconception, since it's actually a bad idea for someone married to a US Citizen to leave the US after an overstay. \n\nGood luck with the process and the interview! I'm sure you'll do great. ", "I mean the analogy seemed pretty straightforward to me, in both cases you're punishing good people escaping poor circumstances in accordance with the law.", "Why?", "What’s moral about letting this man break the law but not others? ", "TIL: Nobody got deported until Trump became president.\n\nThanks reddit!", "Well, not necessarily invented by the Democrats, but political correctness is cultural marxism that was developed by the Frankfurt School and has been thoroughly involved in the national Democrat platform for many years. You could also look in to what Hillary Clinton did her college thesis on, Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky. ", "The fuck? Getting an ID to vote if you’re a citizen is not difficult. ", ">What was the U.S. population when the poem that was put on the statue of liberty was written?\n\nwe dont have an overpopulation problem. not even close\n\n>So you were not related to those Katrina victims? Didn't know them beforehand?\n\nnope, orlando was one of the airports that you could fly to for free including places like houston, st louis and miami. the city was asking people if anyone had room to spare and we housed this family for like 6 months. \n\ni know, crazy concept, being nice to complete strangers right? well see, when you're not a dick, you can do stuff like that. and your world becomes better for it. when you stop assuming everyone is your enemy and everyone is out to get you or take something from you, your life gets better. will there be people who try to take advantage of you? sure, but usually those people are pretty easy to spot. most people, no matter where they're from, are good honest folk and i truly believe that. i even believe you're a good guy deep down there somewhere, you've just been told to fear everyone and trust no one. but that's a buncha malarkey if you ask me.", "Sounds like his parents are to blame, not ICE or trump", "Better hope big brother doesn’t take this comment out of context lmao. ", "\"If you are a US citizen\".\n\nIf \"You are NOT a US citizen\" you can use an ITIN.", "Nice. Way to respond to the point my guy.", "So long story short he's had 30 years to become legal and hasn't and it's trumps fault?", "no we don't fuck off", "Barred from b2 visas.... He is a overstay risk. ", "Oh i get it, a 1 month T_Dumbass reddit account. It all makes sense. Most likely banned multiple times for being a T_Dumbass. Hahaha\n", "So what you are.saying is that through no fault of his own he failed to become a citizen even though he had 30 years to do it. It is down right sad when people have to rely on themselves to get things done.", "No no no. I never saw you as an asshole. You have nothing to apologize for. You brought up some fair arguments that I can agree with. I'm glad I opened up your mind a bit the same way you opened up mine as well. Have a good one dude.", "What does \"Pays taxes\" mean? Did they provide any proof of that? Does he pay the full amount or does he give 100 bucks at the end of the year just to say he does?\n\nJust saying he does means nothing without a social security number to back it up.", "Have you ever heard of the American dream? Cause that is basically what it is. At some point your scummy ass relatives hobbled over from some piece of shit country too. So why don’t you and your kin get the fuck outta dodge as well. You just a bunch of barnacles on the bottom of our good, pure country.\n\n“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me”\n\nEdit:a word", "If people are so desperate isn't it obvious to you that letting them in is the right thing to do?", "Too bad as much as you want that to be true, we both know it isn't. \n\nCanada has more strick immigration laws than us. And given our current POTUS doing his job and an influx of Mexican immigrants flooding to Canada, they're making sure everyone knows they're not one to hand out citizenship.", ">So why try to make it more fair, eh?\n\nWhy is it fair to reward those who cheat the system?\n\nHow would you feel if you were a legal immigrant and went through the system, got your paper, paid your money, went through all the effort and stress and expense and everything... only to have the same reward as someone who simply overstayed their visa?", "Not sure what MLK has to do with US immigration policy... Smh poor attempt at getting at people’s emotions", "Sounds like speculation to me. ", "Yeah but maybe you should be a citizen of the country first ", "Yeah, he walked to Manitoba. As far as I remember he was allowed to stay... plus all of his medical care was covered. ", "This is how I know you're republican. You're saying that an 18 year old young man knows about this HORRIBLE, HEINOUS crime that he didn't commit but will be punished for, and he absolutely has to move back to a country he doesn't know but is a citizen of, and start his life by himself.\n\nHeartless, prejudiced, hateful. No republican will ever be a friend of mine, and will never receive any help from me. I do not want disgusting people in my life.", "If you enter on an ESTA:\n\nIf you marry within one month of entry, it's considered to be with intent. You will have to convince the US government that you didn't plan to marry before you got here. This is not the same as having a destination wedding in the US; essentially if you turn up with a wedding dress in your suitcase and say you're definitely not here to get hitched you will be met with raised eyebrows.\n\nIf you marry within one to two months of entry, it's iffy. Immigration will take a closer look at you than if you waited, but they won't necessarily label you as 'obviously lying'. \n\nIf you wait at least two months and then get married (i.e. in the month before your 3 month entry stamp expires), having made the decision to marry after entering the US, and your spouse petitions for you and get everything right, you may end up getting a two year green card. If you leave the country before your application is processed (varies according to many, many factors) you have to start over. Once you have the two year card you can then apply for the ten year one later on. \n\nEdit: also if the US government ever catch you in a single lie your application will get thrown out (and that's the best case scenario; faking a marriage to get a green card is a crime).", "No sympathy - apply for citizenship just like everyone else. ", "By states do you mean countries? Illegal immigration essentially undermines the system that has been put in place to make immigration fair to all who want to become U.S. citizens and all the people who already are U.S. citizens.", "Or, for that matter - when they have employees paid so little they have to use SNAP in order to make ends meet; looking at you, Wal-Mart.", ">Dude... the fuck. The guy was 10 when he came across.\n\nHe was also not a murderer, so clearly I wasn't talking about him specifically at that moment. I was making the point that there needs to be a cutoff somewhere.\n\n>Criminals ferry busloads of immigrants over the boarder all the time.\n\nIn the theoretical world I was referring to where America strongly enforces its border...?\n\n>It would certainly cause less crime.\n\nIn the form of more people taking their chances with the lax enforcement and accidentally committing crimes while high?", "The number of downvotes you've got make some sad for this country. ", "He likely was paying taxes, you get a TIN from the IRS and use that. Also sales tax, real estate tax, gas tax, and many more taxes people pay everyday. It's also not a week long vacation, he may be banned from the US for 10 years (and then it is another 6-7 years to become a citizen if his wife wants to sponsor him at that point). It's possible he won't be allowed to even visit the US to see his wife or children for that time either. I wouldn't normally be sympathetic, but this is all because his parents illegally brought him into the US when he was 10 (which also prohibits him from applying to become a legal immigrant). This is a sad situation no matter how you look at it, for the guy.", "That's because the left has abandoned scientific method of evidence based facts and instead are basing everything on perception based intersectionalism and post modernist thought.\n\nWe hear it all the time from the left. \"Your truth\" not \"The truth\". \"Lived experiences\" not statistical data sets. The media has pushed their race baiting so hard and driven people into this perception that the world is ending that they actually believe it's happening without evidence that anything actually is happening. Perception is truth to these people despite the fact we've proven human perception is flawed and needs to be anchored with hard data to combat it's flaws.\n\nExample. Poll women about how they feel walking home in the dark at night alone. A majority will be feel unsafe. You will get a % of respondents saying they will feel unsafe roughly the same as you would from the same polls conducted 25 years ago in 1993.\n\nHowever the actual risk of being assaulted today vs 1993 in America has fallen by over 80%. Perception of risk hasn't changed in any way, despite actual risk dropping off a cliff. \n", "Such racism that they won't just give you one!!", "Fuck his parents for taking him in illegally ", "Mexico can use you.", "How is it racist? Are you going to say living in Mexico is objectively equal to living in the US (on average)?\n\nThat is the whole point of immigration. People want to come to the US to have a better future. Instead of kicking them out, we should be flattered and welcoming. ", "I know that American deportation is like a walk through a park compared to Chinese deportation, which I at one point almost had happen to me because of a dumb mistake I made with a visa and a medical emergency. \n\nI know how it feels to be in a country illegally and it's scary as fuck. If someone can be in a country illegally for 30 years and do nothing to try and fix the situation that's messed up and I'd say that right there means they don't care about the situation.", "If your family relies on that cheque to keep living then maybe you take the personal responsibility of not having kids when you know you're in a country illegally and can be deported at any time.", "USING A FAKE SSN IS FRAUD", "If you just use 10 seconds you write that dumb comment to google if that is even possible you will have answer for yourself. ", "Canada does not want illegals either", "Further proof that some people will politicize anything. It’s MLK day and there are a ton of political posts up.", "She obviously did know she wasn’t a citizen without having a social security number. That or she’s just remarkably dense. ", "Like I said god forbid we put morality above legality \n\nThe law isn't a moral compass", "Just like 2016, your party will get destroyed. ", "Sad story. Rules have to be enforced though. ", "It seems like the best thing we can do is to never let this scenario happen, BUILD THE WALL lol", "That is horrible - all those ICE officers having to work on MLK Day. I hope they got some bonus pay for working holidays.", "The greatest country in the world. Yea. ", "What happened from 2008-2010 when Democrats controlled every branch of government? Why didn't they fix it then?", "If it earns income, then yes. These are opportunities the poor never have to earn money. The only difference is they don’t actually work for that money. ", "And they approve and give itns to illegal immigrants? Seems like flawed logic because if you can be taxed you should be able to vote.. and if you vote and pay taxes and work then you should be granted citizenship imo", "Giving him a pass just encourages more illegals to bring their children here. \n\nCome here legally or not at all. This guy and the DACA people should get the boot, if for no other reason to deter the next generation of parents from breaking their kids here illegally. ", "The term illegal immigrant describes the person. Undocumented immigrant describes the crime.\n\nIt is the act of being undocumented that is illegal. Not the person.", "Breaking news folks, white people can't be illegal immigrants?\n\nIt's not a racial issue. ", "Can't. US too busy focusing on shithole country comment.", "It's bullshit because they are 30 years late, has a wife and two kids, what's even the point of deporting him now? Does it solve any problem? I don't think so. ", "I wish Steven Miller would die.", "Going to hit this from a different angle. This guy wouldn’t be in this position if our immigration laws were always enforced. Our new enforcement of these existing laws will prevent things like this happening. ", "I don't think you know what that word means. ", "Actually if you read the new comments instead of top you would see we are the majority. ", "Oh shit you said the only 2 words you learned in 11th grade Spanish. Good on you!", "Been here 30 years, father of American children. He’s probably more American than you.", "When a law is not unilaterally applied it is unjust and should be changed. Melania Trump came to America on a work visa, which then expired and she stayed in the country illegally until she married Donny and had an anchor baby. And yet, no calls for her to be deported.\n\nWhen a crime is victim less it should not be a crime. Immigration, \"the war on drugs,\" these things help no one. There are people in authority that could have commuted his deportation. he could have been offered clemency or asylum, none of these things were done. So people suffer, his wife and children suffer. To what end? Why?", "So breaking the law for 30 years is better?", "It is not right.", "Why is Vietnam blacklisted?", "> Islam sucks and is a cancer to this world. All religion is.\n\nYeah, I hate Sharia with a passion but I don't necessarily hate Islam as long as the person doesn't hold extremist views, basically if the people are forced to follow a religion or their religion is the basis of the law that specifically targets homosexuals or people of a different faith or culture then it is pretty fucked up. Again, I have nothing against the people that follow the religion, except extremists—and that goes for extremists of any religion. \n\nAnd it's difficult to call out all religions considering most (if not all) western ideals are molded by Judeo-Christian values.", "Wtf? Law is law, there's no other way around. He stayed here ILLEGALY. That puts him in the same position as I'd currently be if I was there in the US. And he still has many ways he could get back in, but people can't just get away with these things. Man I'm not even a Trump supporter, but this is pure logic. \n\nIf you steal from my supermarket I don't care that you have a family to feed. You've had 30 years to figure out a way to get your own money to buy the food. Same thing.\n\nI'm sure he'll figure it out and will work his ass off to go to the US again. Things have to be well-executed. I'm sure he had in mind this whole time that this day could come but felt blocked and anxious to do anything. I really know that feel, but I can't blame the US government for doing what they're supposed to do. Sorry.", "Good info here. I didn't mention in my original post because you do need to temporarily leave the US, but assuming the requirements to get the waiver are met it sounds like the best option for someone who entered illegally. ", "Yeah that's a pretty big issue as well. Need to stop fucking wasting money on tanks we don't fucking need. ", "Oh so you'll just let him right in then huh?", "Theyre kinda caught between developing and developed: the cities are extremely modern but the country side is still living 100 years in the past.", "shoulda got a green card Ese'. 20 bucks says he is back next week", "A simple DUI will keep you out of Canada for years.", "Except if you did this in the vast majority of the developed world, there wouldn't be a problem, you'd just pay a couple hundred in fines and file some retroactive paperwork. \n\nThe Asian world is the main exception, and even they're relaxing their immigration laws for notoriously subjugated demographics. ", "He was 10. ", "You think the ACA was rejected by majority?\n\nBecause that is obviously wrong.", "That sounds like a very traumatic transition for the kids (and even for the wife if she does not speak Spanish), I would not want to put my family through that due to a flawed system.", "I'm amazed people can be as stupid as you are. ", "Not to be callus but didnt he have 30 years to get his citizenship?", "It's illegal in the sense of that letting your driver's license expire is illegal - it's not a crime, it's a breach of civil law. There is literally no criminal act being committed whatsoever by undocumented non-citizens simply for being undocumented. It's a paperwork violation much like not having a proper building permit or letting your car's registration lapse.\n\nBut hey, you might say, a law is a law. You break the law, you're a criminal. To which I say, okay sure, fair point. So here's the thing: We're about to get a chance to watch you (and other folks who feel the way you do) walk their talk on this issue. \n\nBecause in a very short time, thanks to the new tax reform law, the PENALTY for not having ACA-compliant healthcare will be gone. But the MANDATE (i.e. the FEDERAL LAW requiring you to have said health care) wasn't repealed. It will still be required by FEDERAL LAW for you to have ACA-compliant policy. \n\nSo, just like overstaying a visa or being brought into a country as a child, not signing up for and paying for ACA-compliant care will put you in breach of federal law. \n\nOf course, there won't be any immediate consequences of breaking that law. Kinda like overstaying your visa or continuing to live here after you were brought here as a kid. But you know, values are values, right. Even if it costs you money you don't have or want to spend (or your job, or even your family and the only home and life you've ever known) you should ALWAYS FOLLOW THE LAW BECAUSE IT'S THE LAW. Right? Right.\n\nI guess we'll see. ", "There are no good means for a child brought here illegally to become a citizen. There was nothing he could do.", "Before you stay in my house, I would love to campaign to improve mental health services in this country to get you support for your mental retardation, since apparently you can't tell the difference between a house and a country.", "> Stop doing this. People voting for the lesser evil gets us where we are.\n\nWell no, because if that was the case Hillary would be \nPresident", "There is no legal process for illegal immigrants to become citizens. Which is what Democrats have been fighting for for years.", "Preface: this is all just from what I've gathered from doing paperwork for my wife and reading forums.\n\nAs another person mentioned in another comment thread, a person has to be in a current, recorded status to do so for family-based requests. My wife, was here on another Visa type when we filed for her adjustment of status to permanent resident. \n\nHad he left on his own, then applied, he may have been better off since he wasn't deported in any way, but I don't know for sure if rhat helps. IIRC, the forms do ask if you've ever entered the US, and may ask if it was legally or illegally, so it may have been just as bad (in the eyes of the USCIS).\n\nConsidering he had no say in it as a kid, it makes me wonder what he should have done to stay legallly, per the rules? At 18, was he supposed to leave the country and apply, or just leave for good to a country he's never been to? I also wonder if he could have left the country, then had his kids petition for him to live here, since they are citizens, or if it's the same issue I mentioned in that they would ask if he had ever been here illegally and automatically be denied.\n\n\nIn short, I don't think he could have done that since he initially entered, although he had no say, illegally.", "Some people illegally use SSNs.", "He could have gone back to Mexico anytime in the past 20 years and applied for citizenship. It takes 6 mos to a year ", "A) the day doesn't matter one iota\n\nB) good. He's an illegal. He has to go back. Ideally, his wife and kids would go back as well", "Lazy? Could you go to another country and attempt to assimilate? Not knowing a fucking lick of the language or what to even do. I know a lot don't seem to assimilate but they're the only ones you notice cause they dont blend in. Even if they haven't quite learned english or congregate amongst themselves, so what? It's hard as fuck to learn another language, especially the older you get. You think they can fucking go buy Rosetta Stone or something? Everything goes to the family because they work hard for peanuts. I constantly see Hispanic dudes (who seem to only speak spanish) all over the place doing construction and guess what? They work their fucking dicks off burning in the sun all day. Where do you think that stereotype comes from? They earn their way for the most part as well as they can. I know the majority of people in this thread could not do what this fucking guy did. I know i couldn't. Im not calling him a hero, but it takes a lot of fucking hard work and dedication to go to a foreign country and function on a day to day basis. Meanwhile legal citizens of this country squander a fucking opportunity few have everyday and take it for granted. Try having empathy. There's not much place for it in politics, sure, but theres also not enough in this world. This comment might be ignorant in and of itself, but calling this guy lazy is fucking pure ignorance", "This is the core problem with a lot of people in the US- lack of empathy. ", "I think you mean you are actually seeing opposing views? Wecome to the outside of the bubble.", "Can you show me how? AFAIK, once he was here he had to leave to start the process on his green card. But i may be wrong, so let me know", "Your nation was never a shining star\n\n\n", "So in thirty years he never took the time to become a citizen? Never paid a dime in taxes. Took advantage of public services that my taxes paid for....why am I supposed to feel sorry fuck him send him back", "You gotta play the immigration just like everyone else.", "Why? Is America supposed to let everyone that comes here stay? Or the best hiders? Where do you draw the line for this stuff? ", "he had parents didn't he .... they should have known fuckall about it it was advertised on TV and billboards all over ", "This and now that they are being more strongly enforced, people are crying about it,.it makes no sense..would anyone feel bad for me if I went to England and lived there without proper documents? Hell no", "I think a lot of people aren't thinking of \"why\" i stole that car.\n\nThey're just so hung up on the fact that stealing a car is illegal and it \"wasn't mine\"\n\nthey dont care that i have a family to feed, or that my dad taught me how to steal cars years ago. see where im going with this?\n\n\n\nwho cares why these people entered illegally. they broke the law. no one should give a shit \"why\" ", "What kind of shithole would let this happen?", "Let’s hope the next President fixes this or changes something so they can be included in DACA. Just something, please. ", "my country (canada) may be too polite in it's handling of immigration, foreign investment etc.. but you don't see shit like this happening. i feel lucky to have a right leaning party that isn't bat shit crazy and clearly out to harm the average canadian like the republicans are. this man deserves to be with his family, tearing them apart does nothing good for anyone.", "Bye. ", "Completely false.", "It really does. You apply. For citizenship within the 30 damn years you have been “undocumented”. ", "How is it not theft? My life is threatened if I do not pay. \n\nI believe the solution is that the government compete on the free market (That it shouldn't regulate with the exception of health, safety, and fraud), with its services and products. If it can not compete or pay for its services, then it doesn't deserve to be funded. \n\nJust a reminder that even without our expenditures on military (which is minor compared to social services) we would still be roughly spending close to 2-3 trillion.\n\nPS: Even in the exorbitant amount of day to day taxes that fund our government, we will still be 20 TRILLION in debt with no way out. ", "Yes. There are people who actually have the decency to respect a nation's laws and have been patiently waiting for their turn to become citizens, legally. This guy is taking the spot of people who are actually honest and respect us. Get him out of here.", "Fuck your empathy dude. Why not send cruise ships to Africa, Southeast Asia, South America and all the other shitholes of the world, pick up anyone who wants to come here and keep doing it until everyone who is in an impoverished country is now in the good ole USA? Bad idea? Why? Where's your empathy?\n", "you sure about that? Because last time I checked Canada had much stricter immigration laws... ", "Now again you say \"free ID\" but the cost of an ID isn't just what you paid for it. \n\nWould the Government seek out this hypothetical person's house at a convenient time and fill out the ID forms with them, or would they send him or her ID for free without them having to submit anything?\n\nBecause otherwise, there still is an opportunity cost involved in acquiring the ID that many are unable to pay.", "its not anti-child its pro-feticide ", "It's not racial. It's because he isn't a U.S. citizen, not his skin color. He could be any color and be in this same situation.", "Perhaps while living and residing here (knowing it’s illegal the entire time) you could take steps to make it right? Instead of ignoring the problem for 30 years then being surprised when what you knew could happen finally happens. ", "So he should have gone back to Mexico at age 20? How was he not self sustaining or paying money? How did he break the law himself? You are so full of shinola.", "If you weren't the one who made the decision to break the law to enter, you should be eligible to leave the country and apply to return legally. If that's not how it works today, then it should be.", "You're absolutely right, I was talking \"law\" only. As a father, I could not imagine being forcefully separated from my family. ", "please explain. in detail. This request is coming from a usa taxpayer who has properly filed taxes his entire life. ", "Holy fuck, fuck you. Like seriously, do you have no sympathy?", "I completely agree with you. He was brought into the country by his parents but had full control of his actions during those 30 years. Plenty of opportunities to follow the laws and correct methods of immigration. If you want to stay in a country that much you should respect its regulations instead of just living illegally and hoping that they don't decide to enforce the laws. Heaven forbid a country try to enforce their own laws when someone is living in it without an ounce of respect.\n\nEdit: I also look down on his decision to bring children into a life in which he has no guaranteed stability. I don't see the logic behind forming a family around a life you could be taken from at any time. It's just irresponsible", "I will admit that with a perfect border, you could prevent all future issues. \n\nHowever, there's 2 problems. First, you have to deal with everyone that's here already, which would take decades of die-off to get to a point where there's no illegals left. There's many more cases just like this if you go digging.\n\nSecond, making a perfect border for a country the size of ours is not practical. I'm not, nor is anyone rational saying to remove all border barrier, but there is a cost-benefit tradeoff. If I divert the entire U.S. GDP to wall building I still won't make a perfect isolation. It's far better to have a \"good enough\" border and then a reasonable set of enforcement on those that get through. \n\nThe existing border enforcement is already quite good. We catch and deport people all the time. It is naive to think we can ever become perfect.\n\nEvery country will always have illegal immigrants. Treat them like people, work through each one on a reasonable case-by-case basis and we'll all be better off.", "I'm talking about the US opening its borders because that's how this thread started, with [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qmmht/on_mlk_day_ice_deports_jorge_garcia_a_married/dsqnea2/): \"I have no problems with opening the borders,\" and my reply that started with, \"If the US opened its borders without restrictions...\" I was never talking about just this one guy, if that's what you're talking about we've gotten off topic.", "Oh well he will be back next week...", "It's not a good story unless it's on a day with significance, duh", "Yea thank fuck Trudeau is finally understanding we cant afford this shit", "No they don't but I'd shoot for somewhere with a high standard of living. ", "Unfortunately, there are a whole lot of conservatives who seem to believe that the only people who should be allowed to exercise that value are those who are lucky enough to have been born in the US. Which is usually because an ancestor came to the US when the immigration system was much less restrictive, or didn't exist at all.", "I don't agree with it, but the date on the article is October 2016. \n\nIf this was the policy under Obama, why is it so terrible now?", "This may be the push we need, the terrible things Trump's doing to anyone who isn't white enough for him in this country.", "In 30 years he could have done something? I’m a little skeptical of Reddit comments as being the final word in immigration legal matters. Lot of internet lawyers out there spouting nonsense ", "Because he was 10 years old...", "Could he not gain citizenship over 30 years?", "TIL....", "dewd you ignant af. \n\nTo say someone with the name \"Jose Garcia\" can only be from mexico is stupidly ignorant. just saying.....\n\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America\n\nIf you come back saying \"there is no difference between mexicans and Hondurans\" you are a pos", "I'm sorry are you out of your mind? The US takes in over a million immigrants each year, which is way more than any other country by a long shot. Do you have any source on your claim?", "Of course it isn’t mandatory, but if you don’t have one that should be a red flag something is wrong. ", ">Hitler declared Jews to be illegal as part of his campaign to incite anti-semitism.\n\nSource? And what does Hitler have to do with having borders?\n\n>I have no interest in being brainwashed with similar rhetoric. \n\nThe fact that borders exist isn't Nazi rhetoric. This level of crazy is one of the reasons Trump won. I beg you and your party stop it lest we have to deal with two terms of Trump.\n\nGo try to cross Canada's border illegally and live there. When they kick you out, try calling them racists or Nazis. See how far that gets you...", "You don't get barred for an overstay lasting a few hours.... Also if she was in the airport, she isn't on US soil past security Soooooo...... Was her flight delayed for a year or something? ", "Dissent cannot be tolerated.", "People don't uproot their entire lives to get into Disneyland. The dude came here when he was 10. When he turned 18, what was he supposed to do? What options did he have? Leave the country and apply for US citizenship? Where is he supposed to live for years while that process is underway? Also, no guarantees on ever coming back or seeing your family in the US ever again, by the way.\n\nIt's a shit system. It's not like going to Disneyland.", "Shouldn't have been in the country Illegally. His own fault. Bye now. ", "So an illegal gets deported.. what’s wrong with that?", "> And yet, people from those countries are coming here to have a baby. \n\n..they aren't coming here for the exquisite birthing experience. They are coming here to secure citizenship for their future kid. The article even states that these people pay 40 to 80 thousand $ just to do this. \n\n", "So his parents fucked him over? ", "> How fucking stupid can you be??\n\nThere's no way to tell, but you're close to a new record.", "The entire point is he should never have been deported in the first place. He was every bit the citizen as anyone else. It's impossibly short-sighted to think any other way. ", "Meanwhile, a man guilty of ignoring a court order gets a federal pardon. Liberty and justice for all amirite? ", "Blame his parents. Where are they now ", "16 times 3/5 = close enough to 10.", "Think you for enforcing the laws of your land.", "Why is it so difficult to go through the necessary proper steps to become a legal citizen? I have known a half dozen people who have done it. Most recently it was a nurse who takes care of my grandmother from Cape Verde. I know it’s not cheap but if you want to stay here without fear of deportation then it’s just what you have to do. ", "I think he might have meant \"I guarantee you (that) people will still be ignorant (...)\"", "Supporting a deportation? That’s fantastic, of course I support rule of law. Oh, and his taxes? Look here - [Straight from the far-right MSNBC ;)](http://www.msnbc.com/sites/msnbc/files/trump2005tax.pdf)", "So just chose to be a criminal?", "Tell my immigrant friends that Went back to do what this guy didn’t. Now they are citizens. So, it can be done, and has. Nobody is saying he isn’t a family man, or hard working. What don’t you understand about 30 years to set this right? Or doing this BEFORE he brought a family into this situation?", "Lol educate yourself. He was brought here as a child and there are no viable options to become a citizen. No one mentioned Trump.", "You named 1! Well done! ...except that when you take a percentage across ALL immigrants it's statistically irrelevant. Therefor...\n", "That's the craziest part to me, there's people that actually disagree with the statement \"He's not bothering anybody, let him stay.\"", "You would be right. Dude shouldn't be taken from his family for 10 years. I hadn't even considered my wording. ", "This is an immigration issue. Nothing to do with civil rights.", "Here's an article on why child immigrants don't just apply when they turn 18\n\nhttps://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/us-citizenship-process-not-as-easy-as-you-may-think\n\nBasically, When they try, they are sent back to tehir country, barred 10 years from beginning and then have to pay a shit load of money that is often insurmountable. All because their parents wanted to give them a better life.", "Yes I 100% agree. But some extent you can't just blame the U.S. the guy did live in the states for 30 years. More than enough time to gain citizenship ", "> does he give 100 bucks at the end of the year just to say he does?\n\nThat's not how taxes work. \n\nHe's likely either using a false SSN or using an ITIN number which would allow him to work as a contractor for many employers, which means he's paying into programs like social security that he can't legally take advantage of. ", "So stupid, there needs to be some sort of augment to the rule for people who entered illegally as a young minor with adults.", "So what was he doing for 30 years to keep him from applying for citizenship?", "I remember my 12-year-old 4chan days", "How many Mexicans do you know are living very happy lives in Mexico? Do you know the area he's from? What his family situation was like to make his parents want to bring him to the US?\n\nHis children are US citizens. They can take advantage of the scholarships and programs that are available here. Like someone else in the comments said, being illegal and still working and paying taxes means he's putting money into a social support system that he himself cannot benefit from. He's paying for other children's college and welfare and then he gets kicked out. If you have a source for them being more likely able to afford college in Mexico I'd love to see it.\n\nImagine you were brought to a country without any choice in the matter. You grow up there, get a family, and are kicked out back to where you came from when you were a child. A place you haven't been to in 30 years. How much money do you have? Where do you live there? How do you bring your kids with you and expect to support them all by yourself?\n\nWhatever route an immigration lawyer would have given him would most likely be expensive. I don't know how many undocumented workers you know that are making bank, but I'm pretty sure most of them are working minimum wage jobs. On top of that, paying for rent, food, clothes, and other essentials for a family of four doesn't leave him a whole lot for his savings, even if it was over 30 years.\n\nAs also mentioned in another comment, now that he's gone, his family is more than likely going to necessitate from the social safety net programs that he was contributing towards. This defeats the primary reason most people want to straight up deport all illegal immigrants.\n", "You get it!", ">So you expect this guy to drop everything, leave his family, and move to another country on his own at 18? Just so he can go through a long, god awful immigration process? Are you fucking serious?\n\nWell he probably didn't have that family at 18. And yes I expect him to do that. Now that he didn't, he won't be seeing his family for 10 years+. He's selfish for putting his kids through this tbqh. \n\n>It's not heartless to enforce any law, it's heartless to separate families to enforce bad/unjust laws. \n\nThis isn't a bad or unjust law. It's a good law, since you know, we don't have open borders and shouldn't. \n\n>Why is this so hard for you to get? Is justice a confusing concept to you? It must be.\n\nWhy is the law so hard for you to get? Is following the law a confusing concept to you? It must be. \n\n>Also, btw, this is completely false.\n\nReally? There isn't many countries that allow anchor babies. A LOT of countries don't even allow people to ever become citizens that weren't born there. So yeah, we actually are one of the most relaxed countries on immigration. There are others, but we are up there with the best. ", "He had plenty of time to do something about it.", "\"I have a dream, that one day millions of uneducated citizens of foreign countries will be willing to work in the USA illegally, often times for less than the legal minimum wage and without the enforcement of existing labor laws, resulting the the displacement of predominantly poor black workers and further impoverishing the black community\" - Said MLK never", "I really love that the top comments are both for and against this, this is makes for a good debate", "Huh? He was a child what was he supposed to do? What would you have done smart guy?", "He could have broken the law in the past and they just now got to it. Even minor offenses often lead to immigrants being deported due to IRRIRA 1996 I think. ", "Hmm, does ITIN not provide immigrants for a way to pay the taxes on the income they earn as they're not required to share the person's information? If i'm not missing anything, immigrants not paying taxes isn't really an issue with that system in place. ", "This country got 99 problems but an illegal ain't one.", "Yes he can, just like he could have 20 years ago. This is a double edged sword. I feel sorry for his family, but I don't feel sorry for him. He knew he was here illegally and knew that some day he would get caught. Why not bite the bullet and do things when he could have instead of being ripped from his family? I have a very close friend that something similar happened to. His mother was deported when she was in her 50's, she followed the process and he picked her up about 6 months ago to live with them here. ", "What does this story have to do with race? Illegal gets kicked out. Whether you think it's unfair or not, they didn't kick him out because he was brown. They kicked him out because he wasn't in the country legally.", "Took them 30 years to figure out to remove him or not and 10 more to let him back in. What a waste of bureaucracy.", "I'd argue that I did not move to ad hominems but rather stated facts. By your own actions you do lack empathy. And foresight. ", "Sorry but Iam seeing this shit over here almost daily.\nMany people are sexually assaulted, in my city one woman was raped for hours in an appartement, another one was raped in broad daylight.\nThis shit never happend before 2015, and all of the perpetrators were Muslims.\nThese are not the only cases but the most unsettling, thankfully no one was murdered so far.", "Once you are here illegal; YOU CAN;T CHANGE THAT. HE WAS 10 WHEN HE CAME SO HE NEVER REALLY HAD CHANCE AS AN ADULT TO APPLY FOR LEGAL STATUS. WHY ALL OF YOU TURN AS DUMB AS TRUMP ONCE ILLEGAL ALIENS TOPC IS AROUND?????", "They are welcome to go with him ", "It sure as hell is mine ", "Nice propaganda I'm sure this will prove that we totally shouldn't deport people who are illegal. ", "I don't think so. That's the problem with how our system is. His option would have been to return to Mexico, where he has no family and probably little knowledge of, and apply for a Visa to come here, which, unless he's highly skilled, would be hard to come by. And the opportunity to graduate college with absolutely zero support system..... Well. It makes sense why it's easier to stay and pray. ", "Honestly, I would absolutely support their path to citizenship on two conditions: 1. No sponsorship/chain migration rights, and 2. Real border and immigration law enforcement. \n\nBut those conditions absolutely have to be met. You cannot have an open border and also legalize people who come in illegally simply because they stayed a long time. \n\nThe problem in my opinion is the Democrats and their heavy, heavy dependance on Hispanic voters across the country who have illegal immigrat relatives. The Democrats are also in an extremely dangerous position of hitching their wagon to this horse: Hispanics who have increasingly-overt Mexican pride ideology that includes the belief that Texas, California etc. are rightfully Mexican territory, not American. \n\nIn my own opinion, this is one of the greatest latent national security threats facing America, one that could explode into prominence quite quickly and easily. And most Americans are absolutely oblivious. For some reason the tens of thousands of \"protestors\" who march with Mexican flags, in America, isn't tipping anyone off yet. If there is ever another civil war, I believe the cause will be \"greater Mexico\" nationalism in the southwest.\n", "If you don't have an SSN, you can't receive food stamps, social security, Medicare, etc. But many of these people are still paying payroll taxes. The idea that undocumented immigrants are receiving entitlements and welfare is a lie perpetrated by the right.", "This is ridiculous I'm mean I'm all about fixing immigration I mean our welfare systems can't handle it but these cases need a better review if this guy has been here this long as a good citizen or in some cases served in military even like Samoans etc who can't qualify for things because they are a territory so dumb they should just express these people through citizenship. Instead of deporting him now his kids will cost more taxpayer money with him being stuck out of country", "For an American to be refused entry to Canada 3 times, there is something important missing from the story. \n\nSource : A friend of mine who works for the CBSA at the Lacolle border crossing between Quebec and New York.", "A nation without borders is no nation \n\n-Doug Funny", ">No. I think the people who are knee-jerk voting against politicians who mention the word amnesty are racist.\n\nWhy? How is opposing amnesty racist?\n\n>And I think this because I read their posts on the internet and I listen to them be interviewed, and they say openly racist and hateful things.\n\nSource?", "Not saying he didn't mess up, he did. But many laws fuck over the illegal person trying to become legal more than help. It's almost safer to just keep your head down. ", "Couldn't he just increase the dependants or file exempt?", "That amendment was", "30 years to become a citizen.", "More complicated than that. Different rules for different situations (i.e. entered legally but stayed illegally vs entered illegally)", "The law is breaking a family apart which was built in the USA as a result of his parents bringing their son there illegally. His parents did things wrong but following the law to a T is going to harm US citizen's health, specifically his wife and children. \n\nDo you think that there is the possibility that US law might be wrong in some cases? \n\nLaws do often change because people get angry with them because they think they were wrong. eg. laws around slavery, alcohol, marijuana, speed limits, etc.", "Care to put forth your argument, instead of just dressing up \"you're wrong\" into something that looks more weighty than it is?\n\nMy \"leap of logic\" was essentially just quoting him and stating that he did in fact advocate for more than just Black equality in the narrowest sense.", "This man came to America illegally, why is he surprised? Surly it was in the back of his mind, maybe instead of having children he should have ensured he and his wife can legally stay in the country together. I have no sympathy for lawbreakers ", "Fuck Drumpf and our worthless legislators!", "So hypothetically, you live in California, you'd like to say anyone from any s---hole can come to California, how many is too many? \n \n At what point does California start to resemble the s---holes from whence they came? If those already here are only productive enough that they have to work 90 hours a week it's hard to see how increasing a population like that is going to move the state away from the direction of s---hole.", "It would probably be rather neutral. Why?", "No, god no. What kind of message does that send? Get over here, live here awhile and you'll never have to leave. Ever think that might encourage more illegal immigration???", "Working under the table circumvents IRS laws that everyone is free to lookup. That’s not his money if he didn’t pay taxes on it. ", "🤣🤣🤣 oh ok. Them pesky laws. ", "I'm certain that they use tax loopholes to pay much less tax than salaried employees. ", "> who assume it is easy to get ID for voting.\n\nfound the Democrat racist who swears they hate racism\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odB1wWPqSlE", "Now he has a chance to take my advice I guess. His first proper go at legal immigration. I wish him luck. ", "It’s not, but that doesn’t fit the narrative.", "> I was commenting on the article above. \n\nWhy not take a look at the source provided by the article to support its claims on the subject?", "Heck ya dude!! See common ground.", "I won't be defending Wall Street, but come on. Its not intolerance that is happening. He was tolerated for 30 years. Yes the process sucks and is impersonal, but if this nation is a symbol of indecency, why the fuck do so many people want to come here?! Quite your bullshit.", "Have green card, don't need to Google. Thanks for playing dumbass.", "Canada accepts way more immigrants on a per capita basis. Canada, a country of 36 million, issues 300K permanent resident cards annually. The US? 1 million, for a country of 330 million.\n\nAmong Western countries, Canada is second only to Australia for per capita immigration rate. The US is way down the list. ", "The family feared for their lives but Canada said no. \"On Sunday, they are set to be deported back to their country of origin and they say they’re scared for their lives.\" Here's the updated article saying they were deported.\n http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/sri-lanka-family-deported-1.4430980\n\nDon't act like your better than us. That's just rude.", "Assuming he doesn't cross back over illegally. What would you do? ", "Because their plants like to party? \n\nIn case you truly dont know a lot of substances are sold as not for human consumption and also MDVP was sold under the guise of plant fertilizer. Also, alot of forums don't allow discussion of taking substances so they say they gave it to a plant to kind of get around the rule.", "I remember reading somewhere that Canada is easier to immigrate to if you can apply from within the country. i.e. Sneak in illegally and then apply for refugee or immigration status or whatever. Is this true?", "Did you even read what I said? I was making a case for immigration reform... To fix the laws rather than ignore them...", "I've volunteered at Citizenship Fairs where a bunch of pro-bono lawyers help people apply for citizenship. The last fair helped over 500 people fill out paperwork to apply.\n\nAs long as a person can prove they've lived, worked, and paid taxes for 7 straight years, you can apply for citizenship but not guaranteed you will be approved.", "I'm sad that we can't seem to agree on anything. I'm a U.S. citizen. I pay taxes. And somehow \"fuck 'em\" just doesn't work for me as an answer, regardless of how easy the law is to enforce. Just because it's easy--so cut and dry that it is practically mummified--doesn't make it right. But that's just my gut on this one. I'll just go back and be sad about how people get fucked over and there's nothing we can do because laws are stone cold fucking laws.", "Why does a specifically sized geographic entity have to provide structure for the people? A government can provide some semblance of stability for the people, but why can't the geographic area is encompasses be the whole world? \n\nAre you saying that if you stripped a bunch of people of their statehood and let them loose to run their own town they'd resort to anarchy? ", "Slightly important. I just didn't want to wander too far from the point. I work for a US company that sells equipment to companies in Canada (mostly US based companies like GM. NAFTA says for after sales service that I don't need a work permit. The first time I went in 05 the border agent didn't like our service contract even though it was technically correct. It is still total discretion of the agent to let you in or not. Since I was refused once I am permanently on the list of having been refused. From then on it is a shit show getting in. Even though when you are refused you sign a paper that says \"I voluntarily withdraw my request to enter Canada\", they get mad at you next time when they ask if you have been denied entry and you say \"No, I voluntarily withdrew my request\". The guy threw down my paper and said \"Thats the same thing dont lie to me again!\" Cunts", "He'll make it back in, I have faith in him. ", "> How is capitalism working for america?\n\nAmazing actually.\n\n> \"Anti-intellectualism\" is a coordinated effort by the GOP and corporations to\"dumb down\" the population by gutting the education system, this has been documented, so its abaolutely happening and your an example of the effects (from the looks of it).\n\nSure thing tinfoil. Or maybe their philosophy is that a for profit system will be more efficient. But yeah probably the Illuminati one.", "> Bye.\n\nI am going to ask you a question in all sincerity. How does deporting this guy make our country better in your mind?", "These people really never are. \n", "“Anyone against Hitler is free to join the Jews in the gas chambers” is similar logic ", "How many other countries can you just walk into and live like you belong there? ", "You can't ", "No. My proposal is that if you're in a country illegally you shouldn't be surprised when your family gets torn apart. He knew he wasn't legal and decided to take the risk. He got caught. Having kids in a country that you are in illegally shouldn't grant you any special conditions. You shouldn't have ever been there. \n\nYes, I do see where he was brought by his parents at 10. He had 30 years here to fix that. Instead he stayed illegal and had kids. That's on him not the system. ", "The law is not static, laws are flexible and do change over time.(see history of human civilization) Our laws are cumbersome and clearly do not help those who have found themselves in a less than ideal situation. He didn't choose to come here illegally, or evem to come here at all. Yet now this country is all he knows, as everything he ever made for himself is here. In cases like this, the law should be revised so that he can become a citizen. He is a contributing member of society who pays taxes, why deport him? I can understand deporting those illegals with criminal records, but for situations like this, amends need to be made.", "If a robber came to take your money it would be called theft. The only difference is replacing 'robber' with 'government'. Same story different name. ", "At some point, that child is no longer a child, but a grown man fully aware of his immigration status. I'm not opposed to laws being amended or passed to remedy this problem, but the law is the law. \nIf democrats can stop soap boxing and open up to compromise, amnesty can be given. Gonna need to hold on the political potshots for a bit, though. ", "How does one legalize themselves?", "https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/Alien_Incarceration_Report_OIS_FY17_Q4_2.pdf\n\n20% of US Federal prison population is foreign born and 90% of those are in the country illegally.", "Business visas are seldom issued because it takes a ridiculous amount of liquid cash to meet the threshold. ", ">arbitary hoops\n\nPlease explain how US immigration standards are \"arbitrary\"", "No. I'm not defending that person. But if he wanta to stay ignorant, then let them be. They did make a stupid, ignorant comment, but people have already told them why they're wrong. I just don't see why someone would just comment to insult them. Maybe they made that comment before reading the rest of the thread. Maybe they commented before people explained it. But that doesn't justify just making a rude comment for the sake of making it. You're willing to help? Fine, help. You're not willing to help? Fine, then just go and mind your business. Don't waste your time in something irrelevant", "Because I can? It's simple as that. Do I have to be a lurker?", "the TD tag doesn't surprise me on this one.", "one small story does not tell the entire story. You have to look at the big picture. How does keeping illegal immigrants out of the country help the coutry - that is the question. This guy is probably a great guy. He's probably got no criminal record, pays his taxes, is a productive member of society. Under a merit based immigration system he'd probably get in much quicker than a lot of other people. \n\nBut this guy isn't every illegal immigrant so you cannot make policy around this guy. \n", "I think you're getting off the topic with the Catholic school analogy. The questions that seem to be at the root of this are:\n\n1. Did Jorge's parents cross a border without consent or authorization of the entity who controls that border? Yes.\n\n2. Did they bring their child across that border without authorization? Yes.\n\n3. Should they be allowed to stay? You say no if it's Disneyland, but yes if it's the US, using only [special pleading](https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/163/Special-Pleading) to justify it. \n\n> Its kind of messed up to prop up these terrible organizations in other countries and then not let people flee to safety.\n\nActually, I agree with this. But then, these people should be able to come here as refugees. Again, in compliance with our laws. ", "Also, to qualify for Daca, you had to be under the age of 31 at the time Daca was passed. Lots of people who were brought here illegally as children missed the cutoff simply because they were too old at the time. ", "What the fuck does your comment even mean?\n\nI mean, seriously. I can't even fathom some kind of constructive intent.", "Yes you can.", "And he's not getting a free pass, he's barred from the country for a minimum of 10 years based on deportation laws. It will probably take another few years just to apply and go through documents/interviews etc. after that unless immigration changed and we make it stricter (which signs are pointing to). He won't step foot in the country for another 15 years, maybe he will see his kids before they turn 30. ", "Type it into google. There are hundreds of pages with information on this. Here’s one: \n\nhttps://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/undocumented-immigrants-and-taxes/499604/", "Well, you are right, it is difficult. But that is the point of trying to come together and find a way to close bad loopholes, and open doors for the right people. Maybe the Dems are a little too \"let everyone come\" but its hard to argue that the R's almost seem like they want a white only nation. \n\nAnd of course the post is locked now. If you happen to read this edit, you are more than welcome to PM with your reply", "Go live in a society like you're advocating, where there is no respect for the rule of law and then get back to me about your \"morals\". ", "[Democrats controlled both houses for 26 consecutive years](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/72/Combined--Control_of_the_U.S._House_of_Representatives_-_Control_of_the_U.S._Senate.png/850px-Combined--Control_of_the_U.S._House_of_Representatives_-_Control_of_the_U.S._Senate.png), and didn't fix immigration. Looks like both parties are at fault. Now if the Republicans push these immigration fixes over the finish line then the Democrats will have to live with their failures on immigration under Obama, and all those years before. ", "Democrats aren't trying to help those people. They could care less about any of them outside the fact that it is believed that they will vote Democrat. Trump and the Republicans offered a compromise as long as it included funding for more security and a wall. Jennifer Palmeri, who worked in both the White House and on the Clinton campaign said that dont compromise on anything that isn't full citizenship for DACA because the Democrat part depended on their votes to stay in power. If your starting point is that and you are unwilling to move, thefe is no compromise to be had\n", "Canada's immigration laws are waaay more strict than the US. It is much harder to become a canadian than a US citizen. ", "U clearly havent visited much of Canada.. Try visiting a reserve and see the quality of life, we dont need more illegals here", "Hate trump with all my heart ", "Whitephobic.", "First, I'm talking about federal taxes. But, I'll play along. That makes sense, considering total California tax revenue is [about $155 billion](https://ballotpedia.org/California_state_budget_and_finances) and they spend about [$180 billion](http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-california-budget-details-20170615-htmlstory.html). So, the illegal immigrant taxpayer in California is no different than the regular taxpayer.", "Maybe there isn't. That doesn't mean the US shouldn't be the first.", "Propaganda post for the lefties to consume, can't see through is shocking.", "I don't like the law.", "Because some people can't keep their racist drivel to themselves we have to lock this thread. " ]	9,046	pics	On MLK Day, ICE deports Jorge Garcia, a married father of 2 kids in metro Detroit who has lived in the U.S. for 30 years. He was brought to the U.S. when he was 10 years-old by undocumented family members, making him too old to qualify for DACA
https://i.redd.it/s6nupvgclaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmmqr/fucking_strength/	[ "One of my favorite photos.\n\n\n\n'Fifteen-year-old Johnny Gray points a warning finger at one of the two white boys who tried to force him and his sister, Mary, from the sidewalk as they walked to school in Little Rock, Arkansas on September 16, 1958.'\n\n[source](http://all-that-is-interesting.com/segregation-in-america-photos)\n\n\nmy other fave, [A nervous young girl sits in the front row. She is the only black girl in her newly integrated class. Tennessee. 1957.](https://i.imgur.com/NWnBSRn.jpg)", "\n\nhttps://media.gettyimages.com/photos/johnny-gray-punches-a-white-student-during-a-scuffle-in-little-rock-picture-id514907202", "Awesome. Thanks. I haven't seen that photo but admit I haven't looked into this history of this photo though I've had it saved for at least a year now.\n\nGot to admit that if someone tried to tell me not to walk on the sidewalk just because what I look like, they would be lucky to get just one ass beating. But I also admit that if I grew up in that era, I probably wouldn't do shit. That's why I find this photo so powerful. To be so young and have to defend yourself just to walk on a side walk, that's fucking strength. When I'm not lazy I'll read more about the history of the photo and any repercussions. Hope it doesn't ruin it for me. I really like it. ", "being brave there in the face of so much hate, now kids in school can be brave by pointing a fingergun...", "For the last time Roy Moore - leave my 8 year old sister alone!", "Holly Shit batman. I got the \"Fuck you\" from the picture. I don't need a history lesson.", "I would love to know how those two white men feel about themselves knowing their youthful hate is part of our historical record. ", "\"The soda fountain is right down that-a-way\"", "I got her mama's permission", "love this photo", "\"greatest country in the world\"\n", "Roy Moore was born in '47, so he would have been 10 years old when this photo was taken.", "Based on that comment yes, you really do.", "I so brave", "What?", "Agreed", "If it wasn’t the sidewalk, it would’ve been the grass or the street or the field or the dirt road or the mud or the creek. Gotta take a stand somewhere and unfortunately it sometimes means punching someone in the face. ", "The other dude is like oh no he didn't. ", "Ikr. Fucking shit country." ]	19	pics	Fucking strength.
https://i.redd.it/00ed5ixlmaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmogp/so_beautiful_shine_colourful_awesome_flower_street/	[ "pretty", "Looks like a purple river.", "Skol ", "Please don’t put emojis in the title of a post", "Thanks" ]	6	pics	So Beautiful, Shine, Colourful - (Awesome Flower Street 🌹)
https://i.imgur.com/J9FBxB2.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmq9i/a_weather_resistant_rammed_earth_wall_created/	[ "Somebody call Trump", "Don't bother, you can't see through it.", "Wouldn’t want it be anywhere near that thing during an earthquake.", "aka sedimentary rock", "Spent years as a soils tech in the construction industry, rather curious about the nature of the soils and the technique used to compact them. ", "I'm not entirely certain what you are trying to say with \"zero binding agent\". Most rammed earth walls use at _least_ lime and it seems somewhat unlikely that this is that different.\n\nSpecifically, this must be the NK'Mip Desert Cultural Centre. This wall is _heavily_ reinforced with steel.\n\nGeneral Info: https://sirewall.com/project/nkmip-desert-cultural-centre/\n\nDetailed Drawing: http://www.sabmagazine.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/8_nkmip/8_nk_dr03.jpg\n\nIt is very cool as-is. I'm not sure what saying \"zero binding agent\" would have to do with it unless to suggest that it's \"just\" tamped earth and it's certainly not.", "But why the Teepee?", "This is what happens when you let hippies congregate in large numbers. Im guessing this is Colorado or New Mexico (possibly California). \nThey’re called earth houses and do have steel or some other reinforcement. They’re extremely energy efficient. \n That’s a very cool pattern of deposition too. \nhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LLPSxS_QeEQ" ]	8	pics	A weather resistant Rammed Earth wall created from compacted soil, zero binding agent.
https://i.redd.it/3ilvxxihoaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmrfd/abandoned_waterpark_outside_philadelphia_xpost/	[ "No link", "Full album: Abandoned waterpark https://imgur.com/gallery/cbd3J", "Lies ", "You're quick! It's up now.", "It's posted now." ]	5	pics	Abandoned waterpark outside Philadelphia (xpost r/abandonedporn, full album in comments)
https://i.redd.it/kbzyyke7paa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmsh8/what_ohioans_really_mean_when_they_have_the_salt/	[ "I live in Ohio, can confirm ", "I went to Ohio for a couple weeks last year. My car got more salt damage in those two weeks than it had in the four years prior, parked on the beach in front of the Atlantic Ocean. \n\nAs a Floridian, I don't ever want to drive in snow again.", "They say slut life not salt life. I am glad to see these people embrassing thier sexuality " ]	2	pics	What Ohioans really mean when they have the Salt Life sticker
https://i.redd.it/pu7se6rcpaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmspk/the_way_my_jacket_landed_on_my_chair_in_my_hotel/	[ "The rare shadow pupper ", "Wow come here doggy", "A warmie boye!", "Upvote for not saying \"pupper\" like you're 5 years old.", "Downvote for saying \"pupper\" like you're 5 years old.", "Pupper\nDoge\nDoggo\nHooman\n*Woofer\n\nAlthough I like seeing cute/funny gifs of animals here in Reddit, I'm getting a bit tired of seeing comments with these words. It keeps me up at night, I tell you.\n", "You might hate words, but these people just love dogs. Get a life.", "Ghost doggo ", "I'd swear I saw this posted with a different title only hours ago...yet I can't find it...", "Upvoted cos pupper is cute ", "Ruh roh rhaggy!!", "Downvote for pedantry.", "Lol, for someone who wears glasses, I can see this happening, if it was middle night and my eyes were playing tricks on me......woof! ", "You haven’t unlocked your dog yet.", "You have the Grim", " Ruh Roh", "Looks like Scooby", "What dogs? they never mention \"dogs.\" Just puppers, doggos, doges......", "r/mildlyinteresting", "i can't say there isn't." ]	20	pics	The way my jacket landed on my chair in my hotel room, I thought it was a dog!
https://i.redd.it/yxiky2mcqaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmuj4/we_turned_one_of_our_readers_into_a_character_in/	[ "Damnit Lana!", "Wonderful! Good work 👏👏", "Before and after would be nice..." ]	3	pics	We turned one of our readers into a character in our comic. Here she is!
https://i.redd.it/x71y49k5oaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmvab/naomi_elishuv_violinist_plays_violin_during/	[ "Show off.\n\nBut in all seriousness, probably because they need her awake and doing something due to the type of surgery.", "(minor note) Okay, we should still be able to.. \n(punkrock power chord) UH OH", "Wouldn’t that interfere with surgery?", "Not an expert by an means, but they typically leave the patients awake when doing neurosurgery to make sure they don't lose their eyesight or hearing.", "I had no idea" ]	5	pics	Naomi Elishuv violinist plays violin during surgery on her brain.
https://i.imgur.com/TIL8WY4.png	/r/pics/comments/7qmw7y/shithole/	[ "Science showing us what we have all suspected!", "/u/Babuinix, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating the following rule(s):\n\n* Rule IV - Title violates title guidelines.\n\nYour title must directly relate to the event in the picture. \n\nYou can read the full information about our title guidelines at /r/pics/w/titles\n\n\n\n\nFor information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/about/rules/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/w/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/Babuinix&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qmw7y/shithole/?context=10\\))", "What?", "Eh, breaks rule one as well anyway. No comics.", "What comics?" ]	5	pics	Shithole
https://i.imgur.com/Mx9IWSO.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qmzmp/there_was_a_wallaby_on_the_sydney_harbour_bridge/	[ "[Article](http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/wallaby-in-custody-after-bouncing-over-sydney-harbour-bridge-20180115-h0irxx.html)", "This kind of thing happens in Honolulu too. RARELY, but it does.", "Wallaby darned...", "All those times I told my international friends that no, we don't ride kangaroos or wallabies to school. Those animals don't come into the city. We're not all bush bogans with animals running wild in our cities.\n\nNow, with Wallabies invading Sydney along with the Brush Turkeys I have realised I was living a lie. I might as well just get my Crocodile Dundee hat on and start sharpening my knife, clearly the second Emu War is inevitable.", "just wallabies. and only in one area of honolulu. surprised they haven't migrated around the entire island" ]	5	pics	There was a Wallaby on the Sydney Harbour Bridge this morning.
https://i.redd.it/a84b51m3uaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qn0w1/humpback_whale_from_my_drone_maui/	[ "Sure it's not an incoming ballistic missile?", "I launched my drone from the Pali in Maui, Hi and took my Mavic Pro over 2 miles out to find this whale. This was actually a screen grab from a video which is why the quality isnt the greatest.", "I've found a value to convert:\n\n- 2.0mi are equal to 3.22km or 16902.89 bananas", "That was quite a morning to say the least lol.", "Good bot", "This is how I want to die. Crushed by a breaching whale while swimming in the ocean.", "Thats actually a fear when were out on our SUPs or little inflatable.", "I TAKE IT BACK THAT'S TERRIFYING!", "Congratulations, you just breached [Federal Regulations governing how close you can fly UAS near protected species](http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/uas.html). \n\nFuckwit. \n\nAll these cowboys doing this shit for Karma, and you guys will be crying the hardest when the authorities further restrict drone use by civilians. ", "You are one angry individual, my condolences. Thanks for the \"tip\" but I know my laws, Aloha.", "Then why did you break this one?" ]	11	pics	Humpback Whale from my Drone (Maui)
https://i.redd.it/wmbhbqvvuaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qn2a4/these_fabulous_sirs_just_because/	[ "What a fucking great photo.", "Can someone do a face swap?", "[MRW I see Patrick Stewart](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9j245gDiNk) 30 years after Star Trek: The Next Generation.", "Sir, meet Sir.", "Would love to see them 2 do a live action film of The Statler and Waldorf Story.\n", "Credit to Annie Leibovitz for [Vanity Fair](https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/10/ian-mckellan-patrick-stewart-broadway/amp)", "It's going to be a sad, sad day when one of them go.\n\nBoth have just been a huge part of my life, the X-men trilogy really ignited the super hero movie era. I grew up with next gen and am a huge LOTR fan.\n\nThese are two people that really do just set the bar.", "The Captain and the Wizard", "These two won't ever die. They'll just beam up and/or transcend in a cloud of light.", "https://i.imgur.com/ia2leki.jpg", "Agreed but there are some [definite contenders](https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.popsugar.com/tech/photo-gallery/38207613/image/38207616/Comforting-each-other-something-do-best/amp) ", "Creepy how natural it looks ", "That's some great artwork right there", "How much fun would it be to go out drinking with them. I bet they would be hilarious.", "OH, i'M SORRY, Mr. McKELLEN, DID WE WAKE YOU???!!", "Ian McKellan looks like a Rembrandt painting", "Two guys everyone likes.", "your photoshop skills are excellent\n\ncan somebody do a proper one?", "For some reason, I would really love to see these two in a Wes Anderson movie. I think they'd fit in so well to his aesthetic.", "If you take letters out of \"Ian McKellen\" and \"Patrick Stewart\" and mix some of them up just so, you get \"I eat PancakeS\", and despite that fantasticness, you even have some letters left over that you can do other stuff with.\n\nThis resulting phrase is not only true, it's deep because I really like pancakes plus I really like these guys.\n\nSo. Thought for the day, hm?", "I'm amazed at how fanciful McKellan's hair looks!", "Ian looking like a 19th century composer", "Someone add Tom Hanks, Keanu Reeves and some Kleenex so Reddit can begin jerking off", "Reddit is going to be unbearable when these two die.", "Was going to say the same about Stewarts hair!", "/u/Skippylu, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating the following rule(s):\n\n* Rule IV - Title violates title guidelines.\n\nYour title must directly relate to the event in the picture. \n\nYou can read the full information about our title guidelines at /r/pics/w/titles\n\n\n\n\nFor information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/about/rules/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/w/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/Skippylu&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qn2a4/these_fabulous_sirs_just_because/?context=10\\))" ]	26	pics	These fabulous Sirs, just because
https://i.redd.it/0w192tj9raa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qn5p1/i_made_a_thing/	[ "Usually don't like this sort of thing but that is very beautiful! Is that a type of opal? I figure not because it's so big.", "Thanks!, it's a Yowah opal", "Upvote because of title. ", "How far do I have to climb to get to Asgard?", "Oh man, that's awesome!! ", "> Asgard\n\nat least 9 distances", "You can get there in 3 time if you are traveling at 3 speed.", "Its a type of thing!", "Oh wow great fire too ", "Looks like that blood clot.", "What ", "Downvote because it sucks" ]	12	pics	I made a thing!
https://i.redd.it/4l84b8n5xaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qn6ph/today_i_want_to_thank_a_man_who_has_been_very/	[ "but that's Will Smith", "r/facepalm is more appropriate. :-)", "/u/Underthebuttnuthuts, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating the following rule(s):\n\n* Rule IV - Title violates title guidelines.\n\nYour title must directly relate to the event in the picture. \n\nYou can read the full information about our title guidelines at /r/pics/w/titles\n\n\n\n\nFor information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/about/rules/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/w/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/Underthebuttnuthuts&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qn6ph/today_i_want_to_thank_a_man_who_has_been_very/?context=10\\))" ]	3	pics	Today, I want to thank a man who has been very influential in my life. Thank you, Dr. Martin Luther King, for all you have done for everyone
https://i.redd.it/mck42hf3yaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qn7oe/timmy_loves_his_nap_place/	[ "Going on the next fire, if he's not careful", "Took me a while to find him. ", "> Going on the next fire, if he's not careful\n\nNow that you said that 😅 Timmy's brother, Jake actually went missing a few weeks ago, and strangely enough when my grandparents were visiting, they said that one of the logs made funny noises when they threw it in the fireplace 😅😅😅", "Idk what I'm looking for but I know I'll be surprised when I find it.\n\nEdit: I found it and I was surprised. ", "I think Timmy is a beautiful name for a log.", "r/findthesniper", "It too me entirely too long to find that!" ]	7	pics	Timmy loves his nap place.
https://i.imgur.com/jMp2QRB.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qn7tv/the_same_street_in_texas_four_months_apart/	[ "French Street: Hey guise how's it goin'?\n\nWater: Fuck you, Frenchie!\n", "Welcome to Texas!\n\nSeriously though, that’s just insane", "Wherever French St is, God doesn't like people who live there. ", "Houston?", "Yep", "They’ll say it’s global warming.", "On the corner of French street", "What part? You back home yet?", "*French St - Scuba diving by day, snowboarding by night!*", "The sign looks crooked, someone must have bunged it with their boat.", "I live about 15 minutes from this area.\n\nIt's the 'Tram Road' area, which is a floodplain area near the Neches River. This area was completely submerged and stayed submerged for weeks after the rains stopped. The main highway leading out of Beaumont going north was shut down completely for weeks before the waters subsided.\n\nIn Texas, it's completely legal for people to buy floodplain land and build homes on it.\n\n", "Texas: don't go there.", "Scuba Boarding ", "That's rude ", "Despite my general disapproval of Trump, I don't think he was responsible for this.", "That sign has been through some shit", "How do you explain the fires and mud slides in California? Nevermind that Houston is slightly blue or at worst center.", "Snoba boarving", "That could have been pictures of the same street corner with a few hours difference here in Cleveland. This past Friday we woke up to a balmy 40 something degree morning. It turned to freezing rain a little after noon and we had several inches of snow by the evening.\n\n", "Thanks I’ll stay in Oregon.", "This is in Lumberton.", "Seems they added a stop sign to the post... Next to be added is the \"Please Stop\" sign with it... Mother nature still has yet to yield... ", "Our climate seems stable - more clean coal!", "I've seen this before and I cannot explain exactly why but the photo of the sign underwater is creepy as fuck for some reason!", "And reposted 3 weeks apart. ", "I was going to resort to name-calling also but I think you genuinely aren't familiar with this part of the country and will try to explain. \n\nTexas is huge. 268,597 mi² and 27.86 million people. I don't know what glorious country you live in but if you're in Europe, chances are that Texas is bigger than your entire country. Houston is the largest city in the state and has a population of 2.2 million people within the city limits and around 6 million people in its metro. \n\nI mention the size because Houston like Texas' other major cities - Dallas, San Antonio lean liberal(more liberal in the urban areas and more conservative in the suburbs) and Austin is very liberal. \n\nYour logic is flawed because even if you were right that groups who vote one way deserve natural disasters (which you're not), Houston mostly voted against Trump. Does it make sense in your world that because a bunch of hillbillies in Vidor TX voted for Trump, Houston families deserved to lose their houses? \n\nIt sounds like you think the entire US population deserves punishment for electing Trump also in which case I don't think I can convince you of how wrong you are, but don't you worry your head about the US. There are always ups and downs. I hope where you live is the same way. ", "So again, which perfect country do you live in? ", "Stupid flasks need the most attention these days.", "That's baffling ", "I think it's just different angle?", "Texas is a testament to man's arrogance. God likes to test us, we're like 'ehhhh'. We've got boats, coats, and really big trucks. We're alright.", "Why? Just like your mother the flood waters come and go at our houses. ", "and climate change isn't real?", "Some say climate change is a theory..." ]	34	pics	The same street in Texas, four months apart
https://i.redd.it/f6ina9ckyaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qn885/casual_racism/	[ "r/accidentalracism", "Can confirm.", "most of us do though...?", "So the whole world blows up over a hoodie but not this? ", "Walmart? If so this is an expected accident.", "And they used the hard 'R' too. SMDH.", "Because it's white people. You can't be raciat against us or zomething like that.", "^ butt hurt white people mad about being cream of de crop ^", "I was being sarcastic...", "> Walmart?\n\nCountdown\n\n", "I want to be mad but damn if it's not true. ", "Well let’s put it this way\nFuck you", "It's a slur against whites, not racist by definition.", "You're saying that white people are \"cream of (the) crop\"?\n", "Did the sign get shot extra-judicially and die? ", "I think they prefer to be be called Saltine-American", "Downvote this sad excuse for a human ^" ]	18	pics	Casual Racism
https://i.redd.it/jb4lmzssyaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qn8o1/kinda_looks_like_a_face/	[ "I don't see it", "Face on the left. Hair waving on the right. ", "are you high", "No. " ]	4	pics	Kinda looks like a face...
https://i.redd.it/kbmxqeeczaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qn9j7/the_capybara_the_only_animal_who_looks_like_he/	[ "One judgemental rat", "But loyal.", "there you go:\nhttps://imgur.com/a/UiKOj", "I don't know, this [viscacha](https://imgur.com/GrsxAh3) would look great with a pipe!", "Rodent of unusual size?\n\nI don't think they exist.", "The Wilfred Brimley of the animal kingdom. ", "Awesome. Ha ha ha.... yep, while wearing a top hat." ]	7	pics	The Capybara. The only animal who looks like he should be smoking a pipe
https://i.redd.it/dlnrftqvzaa01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qnafj/a_puppers_first_trip_to_petsmart/	[ "Go pupper!", "If you're going to use a moronic word like \"pupper\", at least punctuate the possessive correctly.", "🎶a whole new worrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrld!🎵" ]	3	pics	A puppers first trip to PetSmart
https://i.redd.it/9iuwpamf0ba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qnbdr/im_expected_to_use_the_porta_potty_whens_its_this/	[ "I guess you wont have to worry about splashback. ", "Invite the boss to use it first.", " Sounds like you shouldn’t have left Australia. What country did you move to?", "Days like that you just gotta sit on your gloves so your cheeks don’t get stuck. Good luck!", "/u/AussieXPat, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating the following rule(s):\n\n* Rule I - No pictures with added/superimposed digital elements.\n\n\n\nFor information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/about/rules/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/w/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/AussieXPat&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qnbdr/im_expected_to_use_the_porta_potty_whens_its_this/?context=10\\))" ]	5	pics	I’m expected to use the porta potty when’s it’s this flipping cold!!
https://i.redd.it/5h5figbn0ba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qnbua/all_men_must_die_my_boss_just_gave_me_this/	[ "So you think all men must die or is that what it says on that medallion?", "Luc-eeee, you got some 'splainin to do!!", "Elaborate. Message unclear.", "It’s what it says on the medallion it’s a coin from pentos ", "Game of thronesssss", "shit, when I first read \"All men must die,\"I thought it was an extreme feminist thing, now I see its just a translation from high valarian. ", "Oh it's from that throne game, no wonder I don't get it" ]	7	pics	All men must die. My boss just gave me this
https://i.redd.it/juufwe3v0ba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qnc9y/sweetest_of_dreams_delores_1971_2018/	[ "Damn we were born the same year...", "Delores who?", "/u/Yougotredditonyou, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating the following rule(s):\n\n* Rule I - No pictures with added/superimposed digital elements.\n\n\n\nFor information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/about/rules/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/w/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/Yougotredditonyou&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qnc9y/sweetest_of_dreams_delores_1971_2018/?context=10\\))" ]	3	pics	Sweetest of Dreams, Delores; 1971 -2018
https://i.redd.it/jev6sppd8ba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qno1c/this_construction_worker_will_go_into_his_own/	[ "His night job is a magician's assistant ", "He sure is building a lot of the same cabinet...or this is a fucking repost!", "Has one ever broke ", "These are my cabinets and hes still stuck in there. He hands me my cereal bowl in the morning. " ]	4	pics	This construction worker will go into his own cabinets he has built to show how sturdy they are.
https://i.redd.it/cefhbhc59ba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qnp62/apparently_cabin_fever_at_recess_is_setting_in/	[ "They never let us out if it was below freezing ", "I like how it's just assumed that down to -30 degrees is a-ok.", "Didn't have any of that growing up in Minnesota. Everyone was still made to go outside and play.\n\nThe cold conditions made those red rubber balls even more rock hard for pelting people on the playground and being hit with one meant the possibility of some feeling might return when blood rushed to that spot.\n\nhttps://i.imgur.com/pXI4PpD.png", "Is this in Saskatchewan? I worked in a school that did Polar Bear club and am wondering if other places are doing the same!\nBest to bundle up and enjoy (or at least get used to) the cold, it's just a regular part of living here.", "Sure is", "We know, egrith, you insisted on wearing shorts every fucking day!\n\n^^^^wanker", "When I lived in Alaska at my daughter's preschool the kids went outside until it was -25 or colder. ", "toques? is that what they call beanies? or just all hats?", "Yes I believe toques can also be called beanies. Toques are only a winter hat.", "So did you just sit inside half the year?", "Nah, one kids mother complains that her little baby got cold, and that ruined it for everyone." ]	11	pics	Apparently cabin fever at recess is setting in during this -45 Celsius cold snap. I would say ‘only in Canada’, but I’m sure there are other cold places in the world that are this crazy.
https://i.redd.it/sg91h0fyaba01.png	/r/pics/comments/7qnsna/they_seriously_crossed_the_line_here/	[ "Where is this?", "Rocket Fizz in Deep Ellum, Dallas TX\n\nThey also had Osama Bin Ladin Soda called “Seal Ya Later” “Stalinade” and Kim Jong-il’s “Nuclear Orange Bomb”", "Is that cookie dough flavor right next to it??????", "I love Rocket Fizz. Drink kink!", "Haha yeah, read my reply to the other question, I listed some of the politically charged sodas ", "Farrah Fawcett flavor cream soda? ", "We have a rocket fizz here, but I've only grabbed Jones Soda there since some of the flavors I can't get elsewhere. I've seen the ranch, but never had the guts to try it.", "So did you try it OP?", "Yes, next to the classic Snooki soda", "If it makes you feel better... that's just Onion and Dill soda. I'm not sure how I feel about it.", "this was my first time, cool to look around for a while! neither did i, wasn’t really in the mood to trigger my gag reflex", "Blue cheese is way better.", "That was a hard pass for me", "your kind isn’t welcome here", "weirdly enough, i don’t think i actually want to know what an osama bin laden themed soda tastes like", "It tastes like smoosh smoosh.", "Part of the label is covered. It's actually the Farrah Fawcett Cream Your Pants soda.", "lmfao solid joke", "yeah...somehow that doesn’t make me feel better", "Legalize ranch!", "\"Sorority girls everywhere love it!\"", "Legalize ranch!", "I am simultaneously both horrified and fascinated.", "Hard No", "My favorite they have is havanna banana ", "Looks like 3rd shelf from the bottom.", "Wtf", "i don’t know “y’all get yer fixins” is a solid tagline—they really tried to appeal to us southern folks", "Why not. My brothers(including brothers-in-law) have a game where we would buy the weirdest stuff to try.\n\nWe also do that with beer. Budweiser has been the most disappointing one so far", "I think the same company makes a pumpkin spiced soda as well. ", "You guys ever had the Chili beer?", "Don't you want to taste that Marilyn Monroe lemonade though ?", "I don't want to be white anymore. First trump, now this. I'm out. ", "in drinks, I hated the Aloe Vera drink, it was thick and felt like slime. Brother loved it", "I imagine Homer Simpson taking a swig - Mmmmmmmmmm, religious intolerance.", "it’s a soda that is as nasty as it is complex", "no, is it good\n\nBrother brought 'my wife is a bitch' beer. It tasted really good", "Great. Now Ranch dressing has jumped the shark. ", "When you go down to Deep Ellum put your money in your shoe, the women in Deep Ellum got some strange Mountain Dew.", "I can’t even fathom how this would taste\n\nEdit: I feel like it would taste like Alka seltzer ", "Haha sounds like a solid time. Yeah i probably will another time, but i spent enough money tasting other horrifying sodas", "I almost threw up just thinking about it.", "Is there salad flavored soda, could just slosh it around in your mouth and mix it up?", "Out of curiosity I looked up [Lester's Fixins](https://rocketfizz.com/media/sodas/lesters-fixins-sodas/) and found out they also make bacon, buffalo wing, and corn flavored sodas, among others. I don't know who this Lester is, but he's kind of a sick fuck.", "They used to make Momar Cream My People. It was delicious. ", "They also make rowdy Roddy Piper all out of bubble gum https://imgur.com/Yjan1nK", "Yeah they had a variety of weird af sodas, so i wouldn’t be surprised—though pumpkin spice is more inclined to try ", "Or a beautiful genius ", "There's a nice brewery there as well.", "Have you tried Stalinade? That bitter taste of communism ", "ashamed to say i’ve actually done that. ", "Ranch Me, Mulatto!", "Ok, white people, you've gone too far this time.", "If you haven't tried a michelada, get to it. Beer, lime, tomato juice, hot sauce, and clam juice.\n\nModelo sells one in the can. Really decent actually.", "It's pretty awful", "I assume you’re referring to Deep Ellum Brewing Company?", "IT'S A TRAP", "when have we ever not gone too far?", "This would take those suicide sodas to a completely different level.\n\nSo how much money to see me and OP do a chugging contest of this shit?", "They didn't really get creative with the name, did they? I friend lived over there for a while and brought some of their beers to us in CA. I forget the individual beer names, but they were all good if I remember right. There's so many goodnight breweries out there that are regional and don't get distributed as widely as I'd like.", "i’m in", "Should not have clicked while eating dinner. Now nauseous.", "I... i would drink that\n\nRanch dressing is what i consume in litres when i go to the USA", "I'm honestly curious what it tastes like (Ranch.. i know)", "I love rocket fizz! I go to High and tight all the time", "ahahah no they did not. you’re right, there is a lot of local beers in DFW that are some of the best i’ve had. no clue why they wouldn’t expand, but i don’t have a whole lot of expertise in that area ", "Fix it Jesus", "Oh god.", "i have to ask—if you’re that sensitive, why would reddit be the choice of dinner entertainment. there’s a lot on this website i can’t ever unsee ", "I didn't think I was ¯\\\\\\_(ツ)\\_/¯ ", "This guy posts", "Oh shit\n\nDidnt realize you were OP\n\nI can do this weekend", "he wants us to pay for sins ", "fair enough ", "i’m all woman ", "cool hmu man ", "It's not bad. You should have some.", "honestly i would be down, i’m not opposed. there was just a lot of sodas, couldn’t try them all", "Did you try any? Cookie dough sounds like a more acceptable flavor", "ohhhh zinger. ", "3 pm on Saturday?", "Was that at Metzler's?", "Have you tried the sweet corn soda? How about buffalo wing? Both taste strangely accurate, but also awful because its in a soda form", "yea, i was drinking though so my memory is a bit hazy. think i was a basic bitch and had ginger and then for obvious reasons kim jong in’s orange nuclear bomb ", "If they sell Swamp Pop there I highly recommend the Praline Cream Soda.\n\nand this is coming from someone that doesn't normally like cream soda.", "i’ll mark it on my calendar", "whats wrong with drinking gravy?", "No, Rocket Fizz in Deep Ellum", "Look here man, it’s not my fault i’m tall and gangly. It’s like high school all over again", "#Super basic.", "haha sounds about right, no i haven’t but i’ll add it to the list of things i won’t likely try ", "i’ll have to give it a shot next time i go downtown!", "i know it and i have to live with it everyday ", "ahhaha wouldn’t care if you did, keep doin u man keep doin u", "nothing, nothing at all", "You sure it wasn't Leninade? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leninade?wprov=sfla1", "That's one valley that needs to stay hidden. ", "I cant tell if youre serious", "H3H3 drank this for anyone interested https://youtu.be/lNBO0a5Y1Bw?t=5m36s", "[Lester's Fixins Sodas] (https://www.vat19.com/item/lesters-food-sodas)", "ahaha 50/50 do you actually live in the DFW area", "Grab yourself a strawberry lime Jones soda if you ever go back, it's delicious!", "Legalize ranch!", "Glad I asked lol\n\nYeah im in Hebron", "I tired the bacon version, but it was more of a smokey maple soda. I didn't detect many pork notes, unfortunately.", "literally lived in the area for 13 years and never have i heard of hebron", "i am so sorry you had to go through that", "It's between lewisville and plano\n\nNorth of carrollton", "ah gotcha, i’m in the southlake/keller area", "I was just going to say are you at Rocket Fizz in Pittsburgh but I didn't know it was a chain. I bought a six-pack of mixed stuff there last year. All gross lol, but I like sampling that kind of stuff.", "Oh ok\n\nI used live in hurst so i kinda know the area", "Guess you've never seen [\"Sum Poosie\"](https://imgur.com/a/cvw5H) energy drink. Some solid catch phrases on the can. \"Think pink, drink pink\" and \"it's purrrr-fect\"\n\nI saw it at a beverage convention I was at a few years ago.", "This actually made me gag, so thanks for that. ", "nah the one i went to was in dallas, but i feel you on the nastiness. still a lot of fun to browse through ", "i’m a woman of the people ", "/r/Oklahoma", "Apparently it tastes like watered down coca cola.", "Slammed the bacon flavored soda on a dare, and because... you know... bacon. Do not recommend.", "As part of my quest to try as many different sodas as possible, I have indeed tried Ranch Dressing soda.\n\nIt tastes somewhat like stale, flat Sprite into which you'd dumped a bucket of sidewalk chalk in and then squeezed a little bit of ranch dressing into and then let the whole thing bake for several hours. There's also this really odd \"burnt\" flavor that just comes out of fucking nowhere and it goes down about as smooth as chunky peanut butter on a gravel driveway.\n\nYou get a bit of a nip of lemon/lime at the begining but it's quickly overpowered by this shitstorm of chalk mixed with Sprite and you just start to gag when the ranch hits you and you wonder why would a merciful god allow this to be created, let alone be consumed.\n\nIt tastes like bad choices and regret. I've never actively eaten a part of the Sprite factory, like a chunk of the actual building itself, but if I did I imagine this is exactly how it would taste.\n\nIt's...bad. It's not something you drink for fun. If you meet someone who does drink it because they like the taste, run screaming into the night because they are not a person. They are, at best, an alien who probably puts road tar on their hotdogs and sawdust in their pasta. Nothing good can come from knowing someone who enjoys this soda. There is nothing redeeming about this soda. \n\nThe entire Lester's Fixin's line is there for bragging rights. It is not there for you to enjoy yourself. This is like the cinnamon challenge only worse because you paid real human money for it. Money that you could have spent on anything else and it would have been better spent.\n\nIf you're in a soda shop, an Abita King Cake or Bundaberg Ginger Ale will do you much better.", "That Farrah Fawcett Creme Soda is on point though.", "The world's not ready yet", "Leninade is delicous", "I tried the bacon soda. Tasted like salty vomit. ", "That's not really crossing the line. [This is crossing the line.](https://youtu.be/CMfB_3yhjz8)", "So, are y'all doing this or not?", "I feel like they can re-use the Kim Jong-il one for Trump.", "seen Melbas Fixins before I didnt know Jester was in the game too", "as accurate as it is scary ", " Chug chug chug chug!!!!!!!!!!!", "It tastes like those jelly-belly bean boozled beans that taste like socks or spoiled milk. The after taste is horrible.\n\n", "Definitely own one of those osama bottles. Got it from Pops in Oklahoma.", "They have a gravy flavored soda which is something. ", "i only trust it if whataburger made it ", "Yo your thumb broke ", "u should see what i can do with my legs [Pics](https://imgur.com/a/cYrYD) ", ">Farrah Fawcet Cream Soda", "an american treasure ", "I’d probably drink Snooki’s wild cherry. ", "Legit the fastest reply I've ever seen.", "oh right, that’s because i don’t have a life ", "We’ve got this same shop in Arizona! Thought this was that shop since their fridge has that mix and match sticker also. They’ve got a bunch of old times candies and EU ones! ", "Just went to the FL one yesterday.", "very cool, i went a couple weekends ago. probably spent a solid hour in there just browsing", "huh... TIL Rocket Fizz exists in other cities outside of my home town.", "Good old Stalinade. It's not quite the same since they changed the label.", "😃", "I’m from the Midwest, where ranch is a culture. I would try it. ", "You're supposed to mix it with the Buffalo Wing flavor they have, duh.", "/r/CrappyDesign", "who r u to say that? that label is on par with hidden valley—smdh", "I just thought there weren’t enough fonts used, a few more would have been better imho ", "There is also one of these in Levittown Long Island.", "Are you really going to overlook the Snooki's Wild Cherry Soda or Farrah Fawcett Cream Soda?", "Ok, maybe pass on this one OP", "how dare u. of course i appreciate the value of a snooki themed cherry soda. ", "Same I spent so much time just looking at everything. My best friend and I decided to try the vomit soda and it actually was not that bad! ", "That's funny I was just at the one in Gilbert AZ, thought the sign looked familiar.", "Rather drink that then the snooky pussy water in the back . \n", "there was vomit soda?! ahhhaha i must’ve missed that! what did it taste like", "BIRD UP", "my friend got his hands on this, and passed it around on new years eve for everyone to try. i was really drunk at that point and it was still the worst drink i've ever tasted.", "thank you for your contribution", "It's the weirdest thing, but I LOVE the chunks in the aloe drink.", "Try McFuddy's Pepper Elixer. It's like Dr. Pepper cranked up to 11.", "We were preparing for the worst but when we tasted it, it tasted kind of like a cider. The closest thing I could compare it to was an organic rockstar energy drink haha.", "i oddly understand exactly what you’re describing ", "Join the party!\n\nA drink worth standing in line for!", "WHADDUP HILA KLEINERS", "Ooh, hey! This is in the DFW area? I live in Fort Worth, I gotta find the time to check this place out!", "Ha! Marketing genius! Sure, it'll get the occasional person buying it out of sheer curiosity, but imagine some jingoistic moron buying a whole 6-pack.", "I have tried it. It tastes exactly like you think it would. It's putrid.", "Yeah man it’s dope", "Well I got this Friday off, maybe I can make an adventure of it if the weather doesn’t pull another ‘wintery mix’ on me (driving in Dallas, especially downtown makes me nervous because I’ve spent less time down there)\n\nStill though, if I can come up with some other places to visit in the area I might just make a day of it.", "I’ve had the ranch and corn flavors. The corn was the least bad of the two. ", "The Americana line of sodas they sell there (especially the Honey Creme) is fantastic, I'd check that out next time you go there", "Yeah do it! Deep Ellum right before the bars open is actually a blast. Tons of interesting shops, you can waste a lot of time walking and looking around ", "Thanks for the suggestion!", "Alright, you’ve sold me on it!\n (again, assuming the weather is good. If it buckets down rain that day I’m staying home)", "Anyone notice the freaky angle her thumb is at?", "Yup, they should have made better flavors though. Apparently they all pretty much taste bad and most of them taste nothing like the theme. The ones that do taste like the theme, sweet corn and ranch, taste even worse, from what I've read online at least.\n\nThey're banking entirely on novelty.", "I like ranch as much as the next person, but eeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwww! \nDon’t knock it till you try it, I guess, but shudder", "It's in a bunch of places. Google it.", "my body is weird—check out what my legs do [bendy](https://imgur.com/a/cYrYD) ", "I almost thought you were going say that country store with the peach ice cream off 45 on the way to Houston. ", "Working there was fun I loved seeing everyone’s reactions “does it really taste like that?” Was a daily question", "Ranch it up! ", "I've actually tried this and it tastes like dirty soap water", "Across the border from you, we have a place kinda similar called Pops in Arcadia, OK. Just picked up a few drinks the other day.\n\n[Proof.](https://i.imgur.com/beCQPz7.jpg)", "There is something redeeming about it, and it's leaving a comment exactly like this one about the experience for all to enjoy.", "That’s something.", "Reminds me very much of this.\n\nMint yogurt soda\n\nhttp://www.sadaf.com/images/sites/1/products/large/36-5756.jpg", "i scare a lot of ppl away", "You’re not scary, you’ve got like a bendy superpower!", "tell that to all the kids in my sophomore year of high school ", "'Murica.\n\nFUCK YEAH!", "When you know you’ve hit rock bottom", "9/10 basic white girls say it's awesome.", "Haha me too thanks. No really though, it’s cool", "It's a taste of cream soda and ranch. I bought it as a joke. Got 2 sips in", "Oh shit son you pretty much live on my block. Marsh and PGBT here. Sup neighbor?", "Oh you look like Lester Fixins,\n\nWHADDUP LESTER FIXINS", "They drank this on a GiantBomb stream. It's probably the most vile thing they've ever tasted. ", "Stalinade and Leninade are both a thing. I've only ever had Leninade", "Ranch up brotendo", "My bones hurt just looking at that.", "The fbi has been notified.", "HOOOTYHOOOOO", "Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it!\n\n\n...but then go vomit and knock the shit out of it!!!", "Also in Portland, OR (obviously). \n\"Shock food\" candy and novelty co. \n\nGross...", "GLURP", "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.", "Ya seriously, I can get behind ranch soda but Snooki soda is where I have to step back and contemplate what we’ve done. ", "Reminds me of a commercial playing in the background from a Simpsons episode. Something like: 'Finally, the great taste of Worcestershire in a soda!' 'Mmmmh, steaky'", "Are we not gonna talk about the Snooki soda?", "Ugh one time I had a jones soda that was poutine flavoured. It literally tasted like cheesy burnt gravy. fucking disgusting.", "Poor Vinny", "If thats the same store I went to, they also have barbecue soda and butter soda", "Stop right there, I'm calling the police", "Someone call the police", "Snooki soda too? I think you've discovered hell's beverage fridge.", "I feel like a Tomi Lahren soda would be more accurate ", "This looks like a place by my work in Jersey. They have like 5 coolers filled with root beers and odd sodas.", "Should of done a find on the page before my comment. I have a Rocket Fizz close to work. I love the candy selection!!", "Okay, Ew!", "You can find this stuff in novelty shops everywhere. In fact, in Historical Williamsburg, Virginia they sell this stuff in the Wythe Candy Shop in Market Square.", "Trump would be Orange soda and Buffalo chicken flavor.", "[Get on my level.](https://imgur.com/E3NKhZZ)", "I tried reading your comment aloud to my pregnant wife. I only got few sentences in before she started dry-heaving. \n\nGood job. ", "Am I weird if this just makes me want to try it? Because now I want to try it.\n\nWhere would I find this? ", "If you haven't tasted it, save yourself....DON'T. DO IT.\n\nMyself and a group of friends tried it once. It tastes like crayons and sweaty feet.", "What store is this", "Hell", "Weird... I'm drinking a Bundaberg Ginger Beer right now. ", "Hey I was just there for a little weekend trip I took. I thought it looked familiar! Awesome little shop with crazy drinks! I also took pictures of some to show my nieces that love to drink soda.", "I was linked here from the [Most Terrifying Thing](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/7qv45t/what_is_the_scariest_most_terrifying_thing_that/dss5c37/) \n\nDFW checking in... Let's do this!", "I would give you gold if I wasnt poor", "I do put sawdust in my pasta. It's called Parmesan cheese, and it usually contains some cellulose (sawdust) to keep the cheese from sticking together.", "They have multiple locations. Check to see if there is one near you.", "I was linked this thread from another sub and I just wanted to comment on Bundaberg\n\nI tried their ginger beer for the first time lately on a trip out of town and adored* it. Super flavorful, probably my second favorite brand of ginger beer\n\nSaw a case of some of their stuff at my local grocery store, and upon closer inspection I noticed it wasn't ginger beer, but root beer. I LOVE root beer, so naturally I was really excited to give it a shot.\n\nThat excitement was wholly misplaced.\n\nAfter trying a sip, I all but spat it out. It was thick; syrupy. Almost like a cough medicine, and it had a flavor to match too. In fact, the best way to describe it would be \"Cherry NyQuil, but Licorice flavored\" -- I don't think I've ever had a more vile tasting soda in my entire life, quite honestly. As someone that seems rather knowledgeable about soda, do you know anything about their root beer? Because I'm frankly stunned they're still selling it at this point", "I'm sure there is a cocktail somewhere in the world that needs a dash of this to give it the perfect touch. ", "I have always been impressed with parmesan cheese. It must be hard to find that many homeless people willing to let you grate the calluses from their feet. ", "As an Englishman, I have only tried root beer once or twice, and I usually describe it as \"cough syrup soda\" (or \"fizzy pop\" in English). Is it not supposed to taste like that? \nI always assumed it occupies a similar niche to Dandelion and Burdock; Specifically that you see a can on a shelf and say \"oh, I haven't had one of those in ages!\" So you buy one and drink half a can before throwing it away. ", "So root beer (to me) is a warm and caramel-y soda that's frothy and has little bits of cinnamon and other warm spiced flavors to it, but to my understanding in the UK y'all make cough syrup with Sasparilla root -- the predominant flavoring in root beer. I'm not sure how similar it tastes to proper root beer personally because I'm from America, but when I say cough syrup I mean it's bitter and pungent and incredibly thick. Like, when I inevitably poured that bottle out, instead of just going down the drain it clung to the sink for dear life, and it was just absolutely vile", "Gah, that does sound vile. (Well, sort of, I like the flavour of night nurse, and I used to drink far too much aftershock.) ", "As someone who has tried the entire Lester's Fixin's line, you will regret it. I promise you.", "Their root beer is tasty but it's definitely an acquired taste. It's very dissimilar to root beers that most Americans have gotten used to like A&W or Mug. Barqs gets closer but Bundaberg is the full flower of that kind of old world-y root beer.\n\nThere two \"breeds\" of root beer and Bundaberg is not the \"breed\" most people are familiar with. \n\nThe American kind is sweeter and tends to be spicier. A&W Root Beer Barrel candy is probably the best form of that variety. European/Australian root beer does have more of a syrup-y consistency and tends to have more of a caramel and deep, warm spice than American root beers.\n\nFor me, I think Bundaberg is probably the best root beer out there but then again I've tried like 400+ sodas and definitely picked up the taste for it so anything that sticks out above the average (and in flavors almost nothing is as static across brands as root beer) is going to taste good.\n\nIf you want something that's more readily accessible and leans more American in flavor, Virgil's will probably be your best bet. FrostTop is also pretty good. For most people, anything in a glass bottle is probably going to taste better than what they're used to.", "The best ginger beer. ", "You're thinking about casu marzu, not parmesan.", "Is that the one with the gut-destroying maggots? ", "I just threw up a little", "Cazu marzu is pecorino fermented/decomposed using live (pretty jumpy) maggots. By gut-destroying are you referring to the risks of accidental myiasis?", "Please, please make a massive document detailing your experiences with each drink. Please. I’m begging you. ", "!redditgarlick", "What drives someone to desire that for food?", "They like the taste, or the challenge? I mean what drives someone to eat pizzle, hákarl, pickled eggs, stinky tofu or kusaya in a modern world where food scarcity and food conservation aren't really issues anymore (in developed countries anyway)?", "I almost feel like this exists for two reasons:\n\n1. Dares\n2. People that can't believe this is what it is and try it in hopes that it is just an elaborate prank", "Yeah, that is the one. First time I heard of it on skme random show they said it was illegal in many countries, though the wiki article seems to suggest it is not all that serious. ", "Then I have achieved something today :) \nThank you :) ", "I'll see what I can put together.\n\nIn the mean time, head on over to /r/Soda. There's tons of info over there.", "I never though that such a subreddit existed. I know that reddit is like that warehouse store that has everything but I never thought of that. I’ll go to that subreddit in the meantime - thanks!", "Cellulose isn't sawdust. And if you're going to spread misinformation, at least say cotton because it has a much higher cellulose content than wood does.", "well TIL, keeping comment as is for posterity though", "Ah i been there too", "There is one in st louis too", "https://www.vat19.com/item/lesters-food-sodas\n\nFor $3 without shipping - I would rather try the Pumpkin Pie or PB&J" ]	267	pics	They Seriously Crossed The Line Here
https://i.redd.it/syg20mfacba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qnu24/i_love_this_photo_i_took_of_my_girlfriend_and_her/	[ "Looks like a Quentin Tarantino flashback. ", "[is this your girlfriend?](http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/a/ae/Stranger-things-4.jpg/400px-Stranger-things-4.jpg)", "Basically." ]	3	pics	I love this photo I took of my girlfriend and her Dad.
https://i.redd.it/eitranfrhba01.png	/r/pics/comments/7qo1zi/thank_you_dr_king/	[ "Wow! He Tebow’d before it was cool!", "this pic is currently #2 on r/pics right now....\n\nwhy would you repost, with the same title and all? Are you really THAT lazy?", "/u/fishonatm, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating the following rule(s):\n\n* Rule I - No screenshots. This includes pictures of screens and photos where the interest is the contents of a screen.\n\nVery recent repost - see frontpage \n\n\n\nFor information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/about/rules/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/w/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/fishonatm&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qo1zi/thank_you_dr_king/?context=10\\))", "Watch out! REDDIT POLICE!!" ]	4	pics	THANK YOU DR. KING
https://i.redd.it/zioow7iyjba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qo5ar/imagine_you_finished_off_a_regular_bag_of_flamin/	[ "science has gone too far..", "Not science. Wizardry. ", "Que isso men" ]	3	pics	Imagine you finished off a regular bag of Flamin’ Hot Cheetos...that last 5% of powdery crumble is what’s inside this bag.
https://i.imgur.com/Nf75ZPK.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qo71q/to_ticket_or_not_to_ticket/	[ "Alright frosty, let me see your license and registration.. ", "Freeze, dirtbag!", "I would like to see some punk kid break out of it on a bicycle and burn off into the distance after audibly muttering \"sucker\" to the cop. ", "Is it a snow sculpture or a real car?", "Most likely a sculpture" ]	5	pics	To ticket or not to ticket
https://i.redd.it/yom77yy8lba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qo8ws/breezeless_beautiful_big_blue/	[ "Truman?", "Bermuda! However, I can totally see it looking like The Truman Show", "Is that a fish in the bottom right?", "That would be awesome! But it's more likely to be part of a coral reef. The boat had to slow down significantly because a calm sea day like this made the reefs more difficult to spot. " ]	4	pics	Breezeless Beautiful Big Blue
https://i.redd.it/otenw0garba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qof8s/this_paining_by_hajime_sorayama_1989_looks_like/	[ "very cool", "Dem nips tho...", "As an Oscar.", "This reminds me more of a young William. H. Macy", "Cool painting? Yes. \n\nSteve Carell? Not really.", "Steve Carnell as the Silver Surfer." ]	6	pics	This paining by Hajime Sorayama (1989), looks like Steve Carell
https://i.redd.it/5ve1dzi3tba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qohhl/a_sign_in_south_dakota_designated_for_turtle/	[ "Those are a dime a dozen in south jersey ", "Well, duh.", "There's one in my old neighbourhood that says \"Slow children at play\". Very classy.\n\nEdit: sorry, thought I was still in /r/dontdeadopeninside", "was about to say", "As opposed to those god damn street racing turtles whizzing by day and night. \n\n" ]	5	pics	A sign in South Dakota designated for turtle crossing.
https://i.redd.it/3p8m5jqgtba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qohyx/hydrocodone_for_a_sore_throat_handed_to_me_like/	[ "The VA offers me narcotics every time I go. I always turn them down telling them I’d rather live in pain than become an addict. ", "Marijuana is the only safe painkiller. ", "Actually weed can be incredibly unsafe. \n\n\nGrow too much of it and you're in prison for life.", "there is an easy fix for that. Except it wont line congress's pockets as much.\n\nE: for those not in US, the MJ industry doesn't have as much money as Big pharmaceuticals do to influence law makers. ", "[Proof](https://i.imgur.com/Xj8hvNK.jpg)", "6 plants in my state. \n\nYou can grow up to 99 before it becomes a federal crime", "That's messed up. This should be reportable as abuse - - at the very least offending providers should have to pay a fine per reported incident", "No one scribbles out being 6ft +", "I scribbled my weight out cause I just ate Taco Bell. It was very tasty.", "Good bot", "They want to prevent people from returning with the same issue. I guess?", "I'm prescribed 60 of the 10-325's per month for back pain but they don't have any effect on me so I trade them with a friend for sticky buds that actually help.\n\n", "And just like that, you both become felons. \n\nIsn't drug prohibition a wonderful policy? ", "Curious what condition you have that gets you such an offer? ", "It's not a policy, it's a doctrine. They're only prohibiting drugs that threaten the profits of their puppet masters, they give as many fucks about my health and well-being as I do the same for Jefferson Beauregard Sessions The Third and his Crusade.\n\nWhich is exactly zero fucks.", "You [called it](https://funnypictures4.fjcdn.com/pictures/War+on+drugs_023b83_5875865.jpg)", "Well it depends on state, but a lot of the time you get in a lot more legal trouble for sharing your prescription pills than you do for having weed...\n\nPersonally I think it's all fucked. If you look at our history, possession (of anything) as a crime is really a fairly new thing (1930s or so onward). ", "Iv had to take few more prescriptions through the years as I've gotten older and I will say, for someone whose never done drugs, and hates to take meds unless necessary, my Drs are so script happy its disgusting and I can see how folks get hooked.\n\nI've refused many prescriptions,not sure if the old saying is true that Drs get kick back as per how many prescriptions they write, but if so mine make tons off of this and it's so unnecessary and dangerous...... IMO ", "well thank god we got an accurate banana conversion", "There’s a really good (incredibly upsetting) episode of the podcast “The Dollop” about this very topic my god is it infuriating. ", "please stop trading gateway opiates for pot. \njust buy the pot and don't get your prescription filled if it actually helps. \nthis is coming from someone who smokes quite a lot of pot but is really tired of seeing opiate zombies roam the streets. they all start out on the small stuff like you are trading away. \nhope your friend is wise enough to flush them and eat the money they loose by giving you pot." ]	22	pics	Hydrocodone for a sore throat. Handed to me like candy. The opioid epidemic everyone.
https://i.redd.it/o3hc3vhotba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qoi8w/little_guy_driving_in_the_las_vegas_mlk_day_parade/	[ "Wtf that kid should be arrested...\n\nYou can't be driving around that ugly car at an MLK parade!", "Aerials, in the sky", "I mean, I thought that car was tight" ]	3	pics	Little guy driving in the Las Vegas MLK day parade.
https://i.redd.it/kgvwlb52xba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qoml2/today_tens_of_thousands_of_colorands_braved_below/	[ "What's a \"Marade\"?", "Gas is 2.39 there. 10 cents cheaper than here in my part of CT. Not to shabby. ", "It's a combination of March and Parade. We both celebrated the life of Dr. King but also marched against continuing inequalities. ", "Coloradoans? Your fingers must be cold from marching. \n\n", "I love a marade ", "Yo no conoco a esta gasolinera", "lemon marade is my favorite", "My Mave Ma Mream!", "Marinade*", "I thought you were just rolling with a typo, but nope, marade is a thing.", "It’s actually Coloradan. Source: am Coloradan. ", "Texan here - it's less than $2 in a lot of stations. Premium 93 is $2.39. ", "“Braved below freezing? Really? It was like 28°F. Honourable cause, no doubt, but c’mon. ", "Texan here.... you live in a small town?", "So am I, a long time ago....\n\n“At the Coloradoan, state residents used to be Coloradoans, but now we’re Coloradans, according to Jason Melton, a copy editor at the paper. The change came a couple of years ago, and now the only Coloradoan published there is the paper’s name.”", "I think you put it on toast.", "Nah it was like 15-20 for the first hour or two, warmed up during the march.", "It's a made up word. It's not in the dictionary. It's most definitely not a thing.", "Water freezes at 32 F so he's right, plus 32 F can feel really cold as it is with windchill", "Am Canadian. 32°F with windchill is a really nice day this time of year ", "And why do they call it Vegemite in Australia?", "In San Antonio Texas our Martín Luther King March estimated over 250,000 people. A diverse city that promotes tolerance and acceptance\n", "Wow thats great to here. Normally people view Texas as bigoted and stuck in the past I'm glad that wasn't the case yesterday. " ]	29	pics	Today tens of thousands of Colorands braved below freezing temperatures and snow to march in the annual Martin Luther King Marade, the biggest event of its kind in America.
https://i.redd.it/xbb7tbccxba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qomxv/this_mural_in_my_town/	[ "(╭ರ_•́) r/calvinandhobbes\n", "r/calvinandhobbes\n\nWhere is this? I miss good graffiti/street art or whatever you want to call it", "Wynwood?", "You feelin it, Hobbes?", "I love Chester Cheetah. ", "What is Tony the Tiger doing to that poor child?!", "It's awesome that the artist name is Matt. He got to use the same style for his signature", "wow amazing ", "Riverside, CA. Downtown.", "More : https://www.mattgondek.com/" ]	10	pics	This mural in my town.
https://i.redd.it/i5qhotbjyba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qookx/if_you_dont_soak_some_of_your_pieces_in_the_juice/	[ "why i could never understand why people put sauce on their steak. it makes its own sauce", "If you don't rest your steak before you cut it and let all the juice out, you're doing it wrong.", "And catch any left after finishing the steak with a piece of bread. ", "I thought that's what the rolls were for...", "It did rest....it's not like your plate is going to be completely dry after half of it is cut. " ]	5	pics	If you don't soak some of your pieces in the juice, you're doing it wrong.
https://i.redd.it/3a2kkxqpzba01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qoq0j/the_newest_addition_to_the_family/	[ "Good looking pup! Cherish each day with him/her.", "Such a cutie pie", "And he already looks like he’s had enough of you.", "Gorgeous" ]	4	pics	The newest addition to the family
https://i.imgur.com/ZRyLtUg.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qos21/belgianportugueseangolansenegalese_mix/	[ "That's an unconventional amount of parents. ", "Who cares?", "Mixes are the best! ;D", "You do, for one.", "Did you just take a 23andMe test? ", "And only one hot ....mmmmbmmmmmgiggity!?", "See, European imperialism wasn't all bad. ", "Are you single? Asking for a friend. " ]	8	pics	Belgian/Portuguese/Angolan/Senegalese mix
https://i.redd.it/s2k2bmrc1ca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qos3e/i_painted_a_treasure_box_for_my_big_sister/	[ "If you want to see more angles here’s the [imgur link](https://imgur.com/gallery/AYAIZ) ", "This is thoughtful and nice, good job, I'm sure she will treasure it!", "Thanks :)", "Wow, this is awesome! Lucky sister ", "Thanks!", ":)" ]	6	pics	I painted a treasure box for my big sister
https://i.redd.it/l7il1ekn1ca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qosot/a_toucans_beak_retains_its_bright_colors_even/	[ "If you look it from bottom to top it looks like a colorful xenomorph head.", "No shit. It’s like saying “hair stays the same colour after you die!”", "Disgusting and beautiful all at the same time ", "r/natureisfuckinglit", "/r/mildlydisgusting/", "Why wouldn't it? ", "Out of curiosity, what are you doing with a dead toucan beak?", "RastaMorph\n", "Poor Sam ", "/r/morbidlybeautiful?", "Looking for Froot Loops, of course. Duh.", "Aye fallah meh noos, weay-evah et goos! Annit goos raet t'wards dis heer flame-trowah", "you monster!!", "Geez, can you not?", "Is there a form of scrimshaw associated with these?", "r/creepy", "He wouldn't tell you where the fruit loops were, huh?", "Good bot", "This is tragically beautiful ", "That’s strange, I remember reading that the colors fade when it dies. Granted, i read that a very long time ago.", "/r/awwwtf and /r/natureismetal", "I think they fade in the preservation process which is why taxidermist paint them. This looks freshly maserated (meat boiled off). ", "grind it, eat it, and it keeps your gay boner up", "Please elaborate ", "How dare you! Toucans are a bird of nature and you show is dead body! Everyone will get bad karma after seeing this! Karma is a very delicate force and I have been very careful to keep mine very positive ", "Is this all toucans? We need more data points. Is it only Toucans that die of natural causes or will it stay that color if you hit them with a brick? We must know. We should devote many resources to this. Millions of brave toucans will die by various means in this valiant effort.", "~~gay~~\n\nServes not context.\n\n6/10 because the rest works good.", "The colored part is its keratin sheath. It slides over the bone (grows around it) so it's easier to epoxy and preserve the sheath, then reattach it once the bones are clean. ", "If i found one I'd keep it and preserve it. Looks awesome!", "Is it gonna be alright though?", "I could have gone my entire life without seeing this. ", "Alright. Goodnight internet..", "It sort of looks like a smaller beak drawn over a sunset.", "There’s a metaphor about life in there somewhere. ", "I have pictures of my great-grandparents and they are devoid of most colors. ", "That link is a lie. Most of the images are just fucking depressing ", "Repost ", "What have you done with Sam!?!?! You monster!!!", "I should have listened but I didnt. Im sad now.", "The bright colours...", "Oxidation of the pigments", "Chapel made of bones. Ok well that’s not so bad. Seems to fit.\n\nGuy gunned down in the street laying in a pool of blood. This is just a murder wtf.", "It got better.", "Hmmm It looks like you could fit something in there.", "Does your imaginary friend still help you design giant telescopes?", "Friend(s)", "Just follow my nose!", "NOW LET ME DOO THA FINGERIN ", "Drop a few Froot Loops on the floor for a homie.", "Hide that. Some nation will decide grinding up toucan beak improves virility. They'll invent some de-beaker and poach toucans, de-beak them. Endangered species, sanctuaries, army protection, it bad news bro. ", "Nooo!!!! Don't show this! Now there is a demand from China to obtain toucan beaks so they can rub them on their genitals and obtain the power of vewy strong lover.", "Dude. My hair totally does the same thing.", "Did your grandparents have beaks?", "Poor toucan must have died from diabetic shock after all the years of a FL diet. ", "I need to see a drawing of this. ", "The first Reddit comment I actually laughed out loud at", "Bright colors don't automatically mean gay though.", "Buckle up. You’ll see much worse. ", "This is like what you would find in a video game. But Toucan beaks only drop 1 out of 16 times and you need 15. Also only 4 birds spawn per in game week non instanced. ", "r/natureismetal", "Turn the picture 90 degrees counterclockwise.", "The background of the picture makes me think that OP killed a toucan in the wild just to see if that is true", "Can't we just appreciate nature without sounding like a douche.\n\n\"Nature is fucking metal\"\n\n\"Nature is fucking lit\"", "First comment to ever make me cry from laughter.", "They’re just the name of those subs, relax a little ", "Says you", "I've been sitting on that a while, it just irks me.\n\nIt's like calling everything \"____ porn\"", "This is a quality zinger right here.", "I feel like people would hunt these birds to extinction if they could collect beaks like that. ", "nYELLO", "They probably had bills", "Never imagined a dead toucan before... thanks Reddit", "And I'm sad again. ", "~~/r/mildlyinteresting~~\n\n/r/mildlymorbid", "Not mine they made me pay for their burial(already been a decade i don't need anyone being sad for me thanks).", "Nope but they are used to represent the LBGT community so they are a direct association. Unless it's offensive to associated LGBT with their own flag?", "Of course it fucking died if you rip its beak off... good god! /s", "that's dope as shit\n", "R/morbidlybeautiful", "Silly rabbit. Trix are for kids. ", "I was just going to say that if the bones are so nicely cleaned they have either been tempered with as in taxidermy or nature took its course. But I couldnt wrap my head around that if the bones were cleaned off by fungus and what not then howcome the beak, which is basically calcium deposit, did not shrink while that was happening and the beak remained ao lustrious.\n\nThe OP's picture is that of a taxidermist!", "Neat! :(", "Good bot", "Toucan play at that game.", "Yep, that's right.", "Tropical lobster claw", "The sheath can be removed?", "Thanks for the laugh :’)", "Looks like Dora finally got fed up of Senor Toucan's games.", "How many cans of beer does a bird typically drink?\n\nToucans.", "Nobody is sad for you", "This is true. It will fade and we do have to paint them. As it dries out it just naturally fades. (Source: I am a taxidermist and I also once owned a live Toucan.)", "did you just combine rastafairanism, fruit loops, and Aliens into one joke", "Smoke out of it", "> It slides over the bone (grows around it) so it's easier to epoxy and preserve\n\nevolution is amazing", "goddamn Jim Crow", "😭 😭 😭 ", "Is he going to be ok?", "At the first sight without reading the title, i thought it was a mouse in a colorful bag X_x\n", "I wonder what pornporn looks like?", "His beak may be bright but his future isn't.", "ITS NOT A PHASE MON. ", "you're supposed to follow YOUR nose, not just any nose you find lying around.", "This could be an awesome dagger.", "So? ", "Oh no! Sam!!!", "Fake album covers material", "\nWhat is this?!", "I thought this was a bowl at first ", "Or he just ripped it off one?", "Good source", ":(", "Which box of Fruit Loops did he buy?", "r/NotKenM", "I just woke up and thought this was some kind of rodent wrapped in a fruit roll up. I need glasses...", "So, I assume you still own a dead Toucan?", "Wen mi nuh smoking di ganja mi bursting chests fi mi mama", "Only your problem", "It's too early for this shit.", "Murderer", "It stays crunchy, even in milk.", "well they might be thinking of Dorado fish, who are brilliant coloured blues and greens and golds when alive but turn your average silvery fish colour when they die ", "B-52s lesser known sequel, \"Rasta Lobstah\"", "That's why it's called a \"sheath\". ", "Nice to find another taxidermist on reddit! (I am one too, I don't work on birds though, only mammals.)", "Can not unsee", ":( :) :(", "You will go your life without seeing many things. Think not of what you could have done differently, but what you can do well.", "It’s possibly painted. It’s definitely varnished.", "That's a depressing picture to start the day with.", "That’s going on a t-shirt!", ":(", "Picture album of my miscarried fetus at 9 weeks, 5 days gestation \n \nYeah not for me", "Eventhough that is slightly morbid, without a doubt, that is cool.", "tear forming in the corner of my eye ...Sam? \n\n", "I’m getting too old for this shirt.", "Keratin makes up the outer layer on your nails so it would probably be similar to removing a fingernail.", "Well it made controversial so at least some people agree with me.", "It's the circle of life.", "Underrated comment", "Only true gamers can appreciate that reference. . .", "I thought this was a customized bic lighter ", "I really thought it was a rodent wrapped in a fruit roll up", "Username dose not check out i want cheese cake and sleep, not sadness.", "Im getting too cold for this skirt", "I wanna open up a Jamaican Irish small plate breakfast restaurant, called Tapas-the-morning-to-jah", "Yeah, but I'm cuckoo for them.", "Why did you kill the toucan?", "I can't see it at all", "You funny funny man", "i was wondering whether it was murdered or not. It makes me feel sick.", "I agree with you, but those posts are supposed to be specifically metal or lit, so they're accurate subs of specific appreciation. \n\nSo, that storm lightning in a volcano is fucking metal: hummingbird iridescence is lit but not metal.", "It's beak is larger then its brain", "Man, I thought this was a hermit crab with a badass shell for like 10 seconds ", "Just don't have much of an interest in birds... or fish... or reptiles. Also the process is a little different, not to mention how birds have such fragile skin...! Though I only accept mammals, I happen to work alongside a bird taxidermist; he's had me try my hand at a few, and honestly, I'm not especially interested in trying again (and that right there is another reason why I'm staying away from birds for the time being: they're more his territory, we share shop space, wouldn't want to step on any toes. I get calls about ducks, cranes, geese, etc and redirect them to the bird guy). \n\nIf anything, among taxidermists, working on birds (or fish) is often considered a specialization. Many taxidermists will accept birds from customers and then \"wholesale\" them out to a bird taxidermist.", "You didn't have to... We would have just believed you, you monster!", "Am i the only one who would mount this in there house as a coat hanger?", "This beak is a beautiful beak. A toucans beak will hold its colour for 3 decades. 30 years, properly applied, that's how long a good varnish should last.", "Even in death I serve", "Oooo i want one", "/r/enlightenedbirdmen", "i bet op thought it was delicious", "Found the cartel member", "Couldn't you just like...seal it? Spray it with a clear coat of something to keep it from drying out? Or would that not be helpful in the slightest?", "Theres a disgusting skull inside you", "Lunch", "Is the glob attached that was once inside the face strictly necessary to show?", "That skirt was cold when she called me too old.", "I thought this was a tiny dog wrapped in a roll up", "Stop ripping toucan beaks off and they might not keep dying", "Toucan play at that game!", "Which birds are not of nature?", "Or if I'm the brain... I'm inside the disgusting skull!?!?", "lol I use to love that sub, then it was just flooded with dead birds people would see on their way to work..", "Where's your sense of appreciating [Hannibal Lecter-esque art?](https://i0.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/HannibalAntlerGirl.jpg?type=vertical)\n\nBut for reals I liked this [one](https://www.reddit.com/r/morbidlybeautiful/comments/7pyuye/an_unusual_iranian_execution/)", "Theres always one. ", "Oh, you", "What if he just cut the head off a toucan for photo purposes?", "Found the guy whos going to disappear", "Neat", "Why wouldn't it?", "It's awesome looking.\nIf I had access I would start a collection and display them. ", "Knowledge is the only thing that lasts anyways", "Fucken ‘edless toucan, ‘oppin aboot...", "You killed that bird?", "God is amazing", "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7BAVFcTTw", "Pls no.", "Gimme de heat, mon", "yea, ok", "r/bettereveryfruitloop", "deleted", "Looks preserved.", "God's away on business. ", "How many people can have an unhealthy fear of their mortal demise? Toucan!", "Life.", "Try it on and see what it feels like.", "How do we know you didn't kill it just minutes before? Or painted it..", "RIP Sam.", "Nice try Chuck Testa.", ">But for reals I liked this one\n\n...an_unusual_iranian_execution\n\nnahhhhhh, i'm good", "This would be awesome as a cane handle.", "Do you believe in flu shots? You know those change every year due to evolution. Do you believe there were pure breed dogs since the beginning of man? Little wild chihuahuas? If you think those were bred to look like that, you believe in evolution. \n\nI can really keep going, even if you believe in god it doesn't mean evolution isn't real. \n\nedit: https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/10/28/pope-francis-comments-on-evolution-and-the-catholic-church\n\nEven the pope says evolution and the big bang don't necessarily contradict religion ", "Lol", "Budum bum. Thank you, I'll be here all week.", "No it's not gorish", "Then where is your brain?", "I’m actually sad by this \nBecause it’s like \nIt’s such a beautiful creature that even in death you can’t stop its splendor \ntechnically this could be like cheating death? \nCan’t we give them a deathly hallow??", "What did it die of?", "What's going on? This is like the fifth picture of a toucans beak I've seen in my entire life, within the last week on multiple social medias.", "That is so unsettling", "I think that dude was trolling.", "You really never know, I didn't look at their account so maybe, but I've met a good number of people in person who think that way so it's not impossible for this person to actually think that. ", "The murderer is spared because of the victims mothers forgiveness. So it says, a comment says it's likely for show, he was probably just killed in private because the mom was turning it into a scene that the guards may have been afraid they couldn't control", "What did you expect it to turn black and white or something?", "\"Pigmintation oxidation\"", "R.I.P Toucan Sam", "Exploit it for karma on reddit of course.", "Poor fat fruity bastard. ", "I'll get Kratos on the horn.", "My alcoholic ass thought it was a shot glass with some sort of swirled drink", "Or just look at fruits today compared to fruits from the 1700s.", "That's what he gets for killing his bride.", "Alien vs Predator just way more chiiiiillll maaan", "This is nice. ", "Why wouldn't it?", "Love the carbine in bioshock infinite.", "As I read that the fruit loops toucan grew dreads then I had a flash of lucky charms then by the end my brain was all confused. Had to process it all for a sec before I started laughing.\n", "Because everything on the internet is true and should be taken at face value. ", "Are we sure it’s dead?", "Don't yours?", "But for how long?", "That girl was cold when she called me too bold\n\nFall down so slow, I'm never letting go\n\nThis town's just show - I guess I coulda known\n\nThis town's just show - it never was my home\n\n---\n\nI tried so hard to get it right this time\n\nI did my part, the fault here isn't mine\n\nI played my cards so things would fall in line\n\nI played my cards - but it ain't worth a dime", "Have a seat. ", "How does it retain it's colours after it dies?", "ME", "[You didn't know?](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/207/281/590.png)", "#HEY EVERYONE, THIS GUY KNOWS HOW BEAKS WORK WITHOUT NEEDING A REDDIT POST ABOUT IT", "Please don't sweat the small stuff, life's too short to yell.\n\n &nbsp; \n\n ^^^^I ^^^^am ^^^^a ^^^^bot", "Bad bot", "Frooty :(", "I am all-in on evolution... But the dog example is wrong. They have been genetically modified through selective breeding and cross-breeding, not evolution. ", "How do you know it's dead?", "What brought me to that sub was someone posted a picture of the macarbe skulls that snapdragons turn into...beautiful and also dark. The dead birds are why I don't go back.", "Thats sad. I realize there's some skull there but it's so comparatively small you hardly notice it and im imagining somewhere out there there's a toucan who lost his nose.", "That's a name I haven't heard in a long time.", "The real question: Can it be used as a divining rod to find Fruit Loops?", "Selectively breeding isn't just taking advantage of what would be a natural process of evolution? I understand it isn't in the normal sense, unless dogs that didn't meet certain breed requirements were euthanized", "For bonus confusion picture that image in Ripley's ill-fitting white underwear", "Yeah I really hope it was simply found. That's from a chestnut-mandibled toucan which I had the pleasure of getting to know while living in Costa Rica the past 3 months. Insanely intelligent bird.\n\nUnfortunately, where I was in Costa Rica, the beak of a toucan can sell for 10,000 colones (like $18.50). Considering the hourly wage of the average worker was 1,000 colones, it was a significant chunk of change for most people. Extremely rural, impoverished area. ", "Thanks I really didn’t want to have to waste time typing anything about it anyway.", "could you even IMAGINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", "Look at the size of the head and the size of that mouth. Just like our average sjw.", "They're douchebag words.\n\n\"Lit\" as though you're trying to sound cool.\n\nI can't imagine much worse for the future of a slang word that a whole bunch of Reddit nerds using it unironically.\n\nDope.", "Or just neutered/spayed and not bred, not necessarily euthanized. This is not evolution, but analogous to GMO foods instead.", "No personal questions please.", "turn that frown upside down...", "thanks", "How did it taste though?", "Evolution, you beautiful, complex and weird phenomenon.", "This is too depressing for me my dudes", "Here's the obligatory upside down frown. ):", "> Or just neutered/spayed and not bred, not necessarily euthanized. This is not evolution\n\nIf only one trait is able to mate, until the original one goes away, how is that not evolution? Is it just because it's a human's involvement? What if it was due to a color preference of a predator, would you then accept it as evolution? ", "You should smoke out of this", "That's awesome. Too bad the beak from a baby toucan is still very dull looking. Would make a nice necklace otherwise. ಠ‿↼", "Follow your nose, it always knows the flavor of death where ever it goes,\nTerror in the supermarket, shoppers are in horror,\nShredded boxes in the aisles, corpses on the floor,\nThose who ran, this joy is mine, now they're going to pay,\nSugar coated slaughter now the order of the day!\nToucan Son of Sam!\nToucan Son of Sam!\nToucan Son of Sam!\nSilly rabbit, Trix are for kids.\n\n\n", "Tbh the toucan I ripped it off is still technically alive flapping around all faceless and shit.", "You sold Petey to the blind kid?!?", "As opposed to magically delicious?", "I'm pretty sure they got them removed", "This bothers me. ", "That's correct, human involvement. With selective breeding, we \"hack\" the natural process of evolution to produce desired outcomes. These outcomes are due to pleasing Aesthetics or useful characteristics to humans, not to make the animal better equipped to survive in nature (I.e. evolution)of. Not only are they two different things the desired outcomes are different in each process. ", "Monster kills tucan just to see if it’s beaks loses its color !", "Good bot", "Maybe, maybe not.", "Yes, they have their own flag. It has its own pattern and a finite set of colors. Red Black Yellow is not a combination that represents the gay community. \n\nEdit:\nReading back down the chain.\nErares' comment does seem like it was done with malice. But he is not wrong though, the Gay part was shoehorned in.", "[dead dove do not eat](https://m.imgur.com/r/highqualitygifs/i9Z4egW) ", "My point is if it works it's a sign evolution works, bare minimum", "What a weird thing to post...\n\nA woman's nipples retain their color even after being removed.", "https://imgur.com/NMDRaqB\n\n“Me only have one ambition, y’know. I only have one thing I really like to see happen. I like to see mankind live together – black, white, Chinese, everyone – that’s all[...] so I can kill them all at once, ya know” - Alien Marley", "Good source, but it would have been better if you were a dead toucan.", "[They can survive without the beak] (http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/273/870/edc.jpg)", "Y did you kill the bird? Murderer ", "Did you remove the beak before or after death?", "I meant I need to see a drawing of a blazed rasta xenomorph, smoking a j", "It's rastifari.", "At first glance i thought that's a dead bat in a sleeping bag kind of thing...", "Mouth-y bit is the bones at the top (sideways) with the big ol smooth head being the beak", "How do you know its dead?", " ¯\\\\_(ツ)_/¯", "I know I probably sound ignorant, but if the average pay is 1,000/hr, one days pay is considered a chunk of change?", "TouCan't", "He's just resting.", "That's been shellacked and possibly painted. Most toucans do some damage to their beaks in their lifetimes; scratches, gouges, chips, etc. This looks too pristine to be real.", "Looks like you could use it to make yourself a nice knife sheath.", "Of the thousands of gods invented by mankind, which god do you mean?", "It's shoes are off :(", "Yah mon da's guuud", "Can you please not combine more than 2 relevant subjects into the joke", "It's not natural selection but selection nonetheless that results in changes in the phenotype I think is what he means", "Follow your nose they said... ", "Looks like a giant Bic lighter from then thumbnail. ", "A lot of pics of just ugly dead stuff, lol.", "Coming from someone who had a fingernail pulled it is extremely painful. 0/10.", "Aeww... this got me sad. ", "Are you sure its dead?", "It's nice that the toucans are considerate of the taxidermists like that", "To be fair, just because he credits God with creation does not mean he doesn't believe in evolution. Some theorize that God put evolution in place, in addition to the other natural laws and processes ", "\"Fruit is healthy!\" Sure thing, but the fruit you're eating has like 1000% more sugar in it than what it has had for thousands of years.", "First thing I thought was, so that's where Toucan Sam went.", "Depression, puberty, high school bullying and internet desensitization = morbid things are beautiful", "How do we know the toucan is actually dead? Am I just supposed to take your word for it?", "Wtf !! Put it back", "My bad", "just added „killing a toucan“ to my „how to make it to the front page“ list.", "Yeah. Kinda dropped the ball on all those diseases though...", "Why wouldn't it retain color? A parrot's feathers don't fade after it dies, either. I mean .... so I've heard.", "Numbat", "They fade over time as they dry out", "Science is pretty much just religion with different words. The righteousness of some atheists, the whole point of science is to be perpetually wrong. I say that as someone who certainly believes in evolution. ", "Credit to Harris Wittels for this joke:\n\nhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw1Va4yswi4", "Not one color faded? I guess toucan stay the same", "Yes, thanks! Almost got it right", "Just what we needed. Another animal going extinct out of natural human idiocy. ", "So artists are gay because they use color pallets... All colorful birds are gay because of how they are? That's so stupid and makes 0 sense. My original comment still applies that labelling as gay is pointless and stupid.", "\"They're slaughtering us like animals\" in the Philippines?? WTF is going on over there?!", "Congratulations the saddest and coolest thing I’ll learn today", "Ever seen a graple? They take a perfectly good apple and inject it with artificial grape flavor. It's an abomination.", "Mate, it was a fucking joke the dude made, he didn't say anything about the crazy shit you just made up in your head to feel offended. there is no country in the world that grinds up toucans but I don't see you getting offended over that. \n>So artists are gay because they use color pallets... All colorful birds are gay because of how they are?> \n\nWhat you think because some countries grind up rhino horns and tiger organs you think they grind up everything to get a boner? No of course you don't, but that's the logic your sticking with...\n\nEdit: Had to quote your dumb ass, enjoy your downvotes into oblivion. ", "I think he was making a joke about it preserving its color after being varnished in the wild", "Science is a method of learning by experimentation. It involves trial and error to understand the nature of reality. Religion is a belief system that relies on faith and literally no evidence. It focuses on things that can't be directly observed that would be considered supernatural. They're not even close to being the same thing \"with different words.\"", "Considering he's a stimulant abuser, and he generally seems to have backwards-ass genuine comments in his history, I think it's a mix of him being a troll and being a piece of shit.", "\"Once owned\" .... ", "Business!", "The desire sensor knows what you want and gives you everything except that.", "As do its feathers", "Yes but god didn’t actually write that shit it’s based on philosophy and based on society at the time, I’d say it’s extremely indicative of how humans interact and perceive the world around them which is all that science is. I don’t know what religious texts you’ve read but I’d say they are very much about people the whole point of the supernatural is the expression of something beyond our perception. There’s PLENTY beyond our perception in science aswell. How does that not make those systems similar? Saying we know how Black Holes operate and how we can measure things smaller than an atom, what about that is DIRECT observation? What’s this “reality” science isn’t about righteousness that’s why religion persists in the face off it, it’s constantly changing based who fucking observes it, which I’d argue makes it about as abstract as religion. ", "Must have run out of Fruit Loops. :(", "She lives with a friend now. Very much alive, ha ha. My husband just didn’t bond with her and I travel a lot. ", "They have a lot of nasal tissue that has to be cleared out so it doesn’t rot or attract pests. So, sealing it isn’t a good idea. Airbrushing and glossing is the best way to go. ", "Hello, fellow taxidermist! I’m primarily a bird person but I also do mammals. I hate doing reptiles and fish; because of the chemicals and the painting. It’s wonderful how we can all find our niche’ in something that is already pretty niche’. ", "Nope! She’s alive and living with a friend of mine. Husband isn’t a bird person. ", "Ha! I know Chuck. He’s a great guy and very funny. ", "Since about 1939", "Aw, I thought they were bred like that...I thought they weren't bad when I tried them.\n\nGranted that was like 10 years ago.", "Poor little guy :( ", "Noooooooo, you are Chuck Testa.", "That doesn't look clean.", "'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! \n\nThis Toucan is no more! \n\nHe has ceased to be!\n\n'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!\n\n'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! \n\nIf you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies!\n\n'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig!\n\n'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!\n\nTHIS IS AN EX-TOUCAN!!\n", "That's pretty metal.", "Nope!", "Now go wash your hand", "The title of the post sounds like some motivational poster.", "lowkey thought this was a bowl lmao", "This kills the toucan. ", "It looks like a tiny extraterrestrial is looking upward from its nesting place in the eye socket.", "That was emotionally weighty.", "Why wouldn't it?", "/r/WTF", "You seem frustrated. My point is that science and religion have clear definition that distinguish them from each other. You're right, religion was used in the past to explain things that weren't understood. But science is the pursuit of understanding natural phenomena through observation and experimentation. \n\nThe effects of black holes are directly observed and those effects indicate that something exists that behaves like what we call a \"black hole.\" Mathematical models predict what is going on at the scale smaller than an atom, and those models are backed up by observational evidence and repeatable experiments. Science can predict the existence of things by modeling things in this way. In some cases particles' behaviors and effects have been modeled mathematically based on other substantiated theories multiple decades before scientists directly observed effects of them and proved their existence (i.e. the higgs boson). \n\nReligion is a cultural tool for personal comfort and social cohesion. Religions assert facts without evidence. \n\nScience doesn't ever assert something as fact without substantiation. Science really doesn't assert anything as fact, just very well supported theories. Science is a method or process by which people learn useful things about the nature of reality by building off of existing knowledge. Science can predict things, unlike religion. Scientific claims have evidence, unlike religious claims. And science admits the possibility of a better explanation that doesn't require \"faith.\"", "That is beautiful", "Look at all the mad children who downvote at the very mention of a divine father figure. God bless 'em. \n\nI suppose impersonal forces like single cells and animals seem so much better to revere. Unless of course you were to ever find yourself on their level.", "I don’t really disagree with you I just think using science to undermine the mysticism of religion isn’t really useful and makes science dogmatic in its own right. Which is the opposite of what science is supposed to do. I don’t think science should be used to undermine whatever this part of being a human that we struggle to model. I really don’t understand how religion doesn’t stand for a “model” of its own and somehow thinking that religion and science aren’t Intrinsically influencing each other because of society is only painting half the picture. Which very ironically is what religion commonly tries to do. What you think about science is directly influenced by how we used to think about god and how we used to think about kings and so on. Acting as if science is some completely impartial institution on its own, is well frankly not how I see it. Not in the name of God but in the name of how we used to believe in shit like it. Undoubtedly a better more comprehensive “model” in modern science, but 1500 years from now whatever society manifests itself into, they’ll think of us as idiots. ", "My point is that it's unreasonable to even begin to believe in something without evidence. I don't think science should be used to undermine religion or prove it wrong. I think it is unreasonable to hold religious beliefs to begin with without having at least some sort of evidence. I don't really know what you even mean by mystical things, but natural phenomena have natural explanations.", "See but that’s just like your opinion man. Science and math are all self encapsulating no? They are systems contrived by man that model natural phenomena. I’m not saying it’s not more refined but I think being so dismissive of others beliefs is missing the point. Some people aren’t satisfied by the explanation that somehow a bunch of electric pulses produce consciousness. I’m not saying that’s not the case but I’m pretty sure the world is how we perceive it, that’s a philosophical qualm that reaches literally the most complex understanding of physics. This science you’re talking about literally has this gleaming contradiction and you are referring to it as “reality”, sure religion contradicts but it illuminates much of the human experience as does science. It’s hubris to say your idea is reality when the entire basis for the model hasn’t been conceptualized and thus far ends in a contradiction. ", "Hey, i abused stimulants for a while there and i was a pretty chill dude. I actually think the subreddit i was moderating preferred me then lol\n\nI'm not him, just saying voodoo pharmacology ain't cool", "This is the only comment I’ll respond to, but on a basic level this is what I believe in.", "Same! " ]	371	pics	A toucan's beak retains its bright colors even after death
https://i.redd.it/hscukr382ca01.png	/r/pics/comments/7qot7w/freshly_shaved_camel/	[ "Poor camel has a horse shaved on him.", "That's amazing ", "Got any pictures of her toe?", "dude", "Pimp my Dromedary", "Took me a long time to realize he wasn’t wearing a leather coat ", "Can camels get sunburned?", "I picture it walking different after it gets it's hair done.", "Almost a risky click. ", "It's like getting a tattoo of the guy your girlfriend told you not to worry about.", "I thought the title said caramel! That was quite the surprise ", "Wow never realized camels skin was so textured. Truly magnificent.", "Someone get me the name of his barber ", "I think it's a he.\n", "What do you mean \"textured\"?", "Ha. Pimp my side? ", "No, but i do have some of those humps, lovely lady lumps, check it out", "Gorgeous! Is anyone able to translate the text at the bottom? ", "Do these camels not get sunburned on the areas they are shaved? I know the vets warn you about shaving dogs and the effect of the sun on them. ", "Kind of looks like allah tor at the end, in english. ", "Maybe they can get sunburned so the hairdresser rubbed a protective layer of brown dirt or hair dye on the shaved areas. ", "How boring out there in the desert does it have to be to do something like that? ", "Habeeb's Camel Dealership. ", "Appreciate that they gave the camel's hump a Mohawk!\n", "/r/fuckmyshitup", "Written in Hindi. Translates to Camel Festival Bikaner. Bikaner is a place in Rajasthan, a state in India.\n", "I prefer freshly shaved beaver. ... but that's just me.", "A beautiful city in a beautiful state!" ]	29	pics	Freshly shaved Camel.
https://i.redd.it/pp53vm162ca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qot8s/500000_kg_in_natural_balance_finland/	[ "I don’t care how long it’s been like that, there is NO WAY I would sit under that...", "An earthquake can make things interesting. ", "Noooooo....it’s not my turn, I only wanted you to sit under it to take a pic, because it looks like it could fall at any moment. ", "Who weighed it and put it back? ", "That's what I was thinking lol", "Me", "If youre serious, its estimated. The size can be measured and the type of rock weighs a certain amount.", "In early 1900s some youth took a ladder and spent time on top of it. Now its protected meaning you shouldnt do that.", "Glacial erratic i assume ", "Ok, but if you sit on top of the rock, the worst thing that can happen is it maybe rolls and you have to jump off. If you sit under the rock, and it somehow rolls, you will be crushed to death.", "mass = volumedensity\n\nBoth quantities on the right can be easily estimated. ", "Yup brought by ice about 12000 yrs ago", "we have them smack in the middle of NYC and a lot of people think they were put there.", "Would make a nice counter top", "This is really cool!", "To be clear, the worst thing that can happen is you have to jump 20 feet down, from a moving, 500 ton rock, that may or may not crush you when you land. \n\nSure, no problem.", "Lol it is still a stupid life choice, but you still have a chance of surviving if you jump in the opposite direction (although you’ll certainly break a lot of bones). But there is absolutely NO chance of surviving if you’re under that rock 😬.", "Well, I suppose if I had* to choose one...", "I too, watch Clarence.", "Pioneers used to ride these babies for miles.", "Hold on a second... I thought you said you took it down and weighed it?", "Is there any kind of grease you could spray where the two stones connect that would cause it to seep in and slip just enough to crush her?", "Don't let any Boy Scouts near it!!!", "Easier to start moving from underneath it on solid not moving ground. Unless people actually act like horror movie victims and just sit there hands up screaming.", "Unfortunately, this person is not on the ground. They are sitting on another rock with only a few feet between their head and the rock. If it rolled, it would likely crush them before they had a chance to react, unless they had REALLY good reflexes.", "Good bot", "Alright, but say you do jump off of the moving rock and somehow survive by not getting crushed... but you still end up getting eaten by an alligator while your lying on the ground unconscious. I'd say, that's even worse.", "Indeed footing would be a problem there.", "Where is this in finland?", "Let's rock it!", "Scouts may be fine, it's their leaders I'm worried about...", "Ruokolahti. Its called kummakivi (strange rock) and has short english wikipedia entry.", "Wd-40", "The rock has been there about 378432000000 seconds - she probably spent something like 20 seconds there so maybe that's why she's not that worried.", "[Here's another from India](http://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/11/krishna-butter-ball-balancing-rock-at.html)", "Better knock that over before it hurts someone. ", "You might be right. I’m still not going under it 😂.", "Yup that's how Boulder Colorado got its name", "Did you loose weight?", "Put there by who...?", "Can we all start putting commas in the numbers please. I had to count the zeros way too many times before I realised it was 500,000 kg.\n\nEdit: I forget to mention your rock is very large and very cool.", "But here comma means decimal sorry", "TIL that many countries use commas as a decimal mark.\nThanks!", "Fun fact: in Scandinavian folklore, boulders deposited by ice age glaciers like this were attributed to trolls or giants having thrown them around when battling one another. We call them giant's throws or troll's throws. There's a scene in The Hobbit that more or less depicts this. In some places, there are big, smooth pits ground into the bedrock by boulders caught in the churning ice, and we still call those troll's cauldrons.", "The different ways different countries write large numbers is something of a pain in the butt. \n\nSome countries use a period as the decimal separator, some countries use a comma. \nSome countries use comma as the grouping separator, some countries use a period, some countries use a space. \nSome countries group thousands, some group tens of thousands. \nAnd then there's the special cases... \n\nStandards. There's always so many to choose from.", "chuck norris", "Plenty of stuff like this in China IIRC", "So is it really balancing, or just sitting there. When you're sitting in a chair, are you \"balancing\"?", "Someone should knock that over so the kids don't get hurt and all ", "Yes to both. Sitting is balancing; both are essentially the state of an object being on another object with forces equal in all planes such that neither object will fall. People just tend to use balance more when the object on top has only one point of contact, and said point of contact is much smaller than said object. This is because it requires the upper objects center of gravity to be directly over the point of contact, which usually requires maneuvering and precision which is usually described with the verb balance, logically leading to the adjective use of balance to say that the object is balanced.\n\nEver see someone go unconscious while sitting in a chair and fall over? That's because their center of gravity was thrown off and their core didn't engage to reorient it over the point of contact between their butt and the chair. They were sitting balanced, they passed out, they lost their balance, and fell over", "the frost giants......?", "what's your clearance?", "It can't be. Have they returned...........?", "i guess not... the rocks are still there..." ]	55	pics	500000 kg in natural balance, Finland
https://i.imgur.com/oMvqVfQ.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qovpw/a_frozen_charles_river/	[ "contrails and I see one", "No, there is one or two contrails and no, the entire leftside is not a \"chemtrail\" but I'd LOVE for you to tell me how you know that they are \"chemtrails\"", "Their tin foil hat is buzzing" ]	3	pics	A frozen Charles River
https://i.redd.it/dmcop7sc4ca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qovqj/has_anyone_ever_seen_a_caller_id_like_this_before/	[ "That’s Republican Senator Scam Likely, he’s starting a presidential run for 2020 and just getting some calls in to his constituents. ", "Yes, it’s likely a scam call. ", "Started getting these a while ago (right after switching to iPhone) and they haven’t stopped since.", "That’s annoying, at least they warned us first haha ", "The most common is a guy with a Texan accent saying “hey! Is Mickey there!?” Makes me want to stab people named Mickey.", "It's a feature T-Mobile added a while back. They automatically detect scam and spam numbers and set the caller id to warn you.\n\nhttps://explore.t-mobile.com/callprotection\nhttps://support.t-mobile.com/thread/139000\n\nYou can also switch it to automatically block by dialing #662#", "This is what it looks like when someone calls me talking about the b cash taking over bitcoin core", "/u/ExplosephJoseph, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating the following rule(s):\n\n* Rule I - No screenshots. This includes pictures of screens and photos where the interest is the contents of a screen.\n\n\n\nFor information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/about/rules/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/w/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/ExplosephJoseph&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qovqj/has_anyone_ever_seen_a_caller_id_like_this_before/?context=10\\))", "Thank you very much! " ]	9	pics	Has anyone ever seen a caller ID like this before?
https://i.imgur.com/jHaaebM.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qow2e/blood_clot_from_an_80_yr_old_male_with_nose_bleed/	[ "Respectfully, is he alive? ", "Fucking terrifying.", "I had the same thought. That is pretty scary looking. ", "No he’s not alive. I saw the source not too long ago, can’t remember where. \n\nIt was a 70 y/o man, with a severe lung infection. It was taken out postmortem. ", "Did this dude take blood thinners, get nosebleed, and then receive a large dose of vitamin K? Jesus. ", "I take two blood thinners, after having brain surgery two years ago, and shit like this is a legit fear. Every noise bleed, every random bruise on my leg.", "A blood bronchogram :(", "shouldn't blood thinners prevent clots?", "Y'know I get these all the time, (obviously nowhere near this severe) maybe I should tell my doctor? Yeeeeah.", "Holy shit thats crazy ", "Yes, that's the goal. \n\nBut as a young woman (29) my body still very much wants to clot regularly so I live in this constant state of bruising and random clotting.\n\nFor example, when I first left the ICU and came home after my brain surgery, my decade-old skin graft suddenly started to bleed and lift up around the edges. As this happened, however, my body's natural reaction was to clot to seal up this edge. So I was faced with very thin blood and very large clots pouring from around this skin graft I hadnt paid much mind to in years. I ended up on anti rejection meds to deal with it. \n\nThis is the same reason that large random bruises on my legs are troublesome. I bump into something, I have minor, under skin bleeding due to the thinners... But then my body attempts to clot in normal response to trauma as the thinners continue to work and I run into the distinct possibility of a DVT from a healing bruise on my thigh.\n\nBasically, don't get a brain tumor kids.", "Please mark this “NSFW”.", "Wait, your neurosurgeon wants to thin the blood, which would facilitate the quick recovery of your brain, rather than help it do it’s natural job?\n\nEdit: some words", "This is why you don’t tilt your head back during a nosebleed. ", "I don't understand the question. \n\nI will take two blood thinners for the rest of my life as a result of experimental brain surgery.", "”Why?” was the one word question I wrote-out using more. “Why did your neurologist/surgeon decide “let’s see if thinning the blood indefinitely facilitates better results.” than instead encourage the recovery of gray matter with a high dose of protein post-op?\n\nStandard issue to all deployed US military members in the middle-east (due to IED threats) is a protein bar they carry on them, for the 40% increase in brain damage prevention.\n\nSo, I’ll ask again, “Where was the logic in their decision to thin your blood indefinitely because of your brain surgery?”", "blood clot prevention", "It not inappropriate material for work.", "Okay, now that makes sense, though “for the rest of his life” seems a bit extreme.", "So someone explain it me, why this blood clot it bad. I know it bad, I know you need to try and get the clot out when you have a nose bleed, and I know thrombus(s) need removed, but hemostasis is supposed to be a sign of healing. And thats what confuses me. So why are these clots bad, and why do they occur?", "I can't fully explain the science here, as I'm the patient and not the physician, but here goes:\n\nI had severe migraine disorder and epilepsy that were being moderately successfully treated upon the discovery of a rare non-cancerous brain tumor. The decision was made to operate quickly to not only save my life, but also to take advantage of funding for a clinical trial. \n\nWhat they did was remove the tumor from behind my right eye and implant an experimental device in my transverse occipital sinus. The device's goal is primarily fluid management, as that is one the biggest challenges facing brain tumor patients - both blood and cerebrospinal fluid accumulates in the brain, occipital cavity and spinal column. The device is tethered down through my body to a secondary device in my right leg that allows the surgical team to find the device and essentially tune it up if needed in the future or run routine testing on my brain health at the surgery site.\n\nThe blood thinners work here to #1 clear fluid from the same areas described above, as thin fluid moves easier than thick fluid. #2 prevent clotting in the now fragile brain tissues as they adapt and respecialize. #3 work as first line anti rejection measures for the two devices and the teather that I will live with forever and now need to survive. #4 experimentally reduce blood pressure in neck and skull, thereby reducing the chance of severe migraine and seizure activity.\n\nAll of these have proven true in my fase and in approximately 85% of the trial participants who are still alive at 12 mos +\n\nAs for protein and other diet considerations, I am on an adjusted diet and take literal handfuls of other medications as well. But, in the case of a brain tumor that has already come to pass, diet seems to be a smaller consideration than the actual medications now keeping me alive. \n\nAnd brain tumors and planned brain surgery is much different than unexpected and traumatic brain injury as a result of war.", "sometimes they're proscribed prophylactically. i'm not a doc, but i have a little experience with this. the downside is you have to be careful with bruising, head trauma, etc. but i think the idea is that complications from blood clots, like pulmonary embolisms, are such a high risk that it's worth the tradeoff.", "/u/iam_nobody, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating the following rule(s):\n\n* Rule II - No gore or other NSFL content.\n\n\n\nFor information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/about/rules/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/w/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/iam_nobody&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qow2e/blood_clot_from_an_80_yr_old_male_with_nose_bleed/?context=10\\))", "I greatly appreciate your taking the time to detail that for me. I apologize for my blunt inquiry into your medical situation. I hope the rest of your clinical trials continue smoothly.", "You may be right... “NSFL” is more accurate.", "Education is the key to prevention. I dont mind sharing my experience with three brain conditions if it means that someone else might notice the symptoms in themselves and get help, or find the courage to chase the cure if they are already sick.\n\nI haven't had a single seizure since my brain surgery and have even been able to reduce the dose of my anticonvulsants over the past year. Its terrifying to have an experimental device in my head, but I'm so grateful for whatever time it gives me to be with my children.\n\nWhen I first got sick and my vision and hearing were failing fast, I was terrified I wouldnt get to see my children grow up. I feel like the least I can do now is share my story so that someone else might have that chance.\n\nThanks for asking good questions!!!" ]	26	pics	Blood clot from an 80 yr old male with nose bleed for 2 days, started from his nose down his airway and into his lungs
https://i.imgur.com/gTYFfGY.png	/r/pics/comments/7qowmx/hello/	[ "Too much", "Very kissable!", "Can’t ... resist... urge to touch that tongue...", "https://youtu.be/BQTwvbWAx8A", "heLo HOOmaN", "There! ", "Derp", "Also applies to bulldogs.\n\nhttps://i.redd.it/bygf16me79a01.jpg", "Mlehllo", "What have we done?" ]	10	pics	Hello
https://i.redd.it/rq87bjwe5ca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qox2u/neolithic_tools_with_a_modern_twist/	[ "the middle two look like neolithic butt-plugs.", "That's Quagmire!", "These would be great if I didn't have to farm Glinthawk lenses for an hour to craft. ", "Do you have any information about these things? I knap stone tools and would love to make my own set like this.", "Why though", "This is art I can appreciate.", "Why not? I think they look cool, an odd blend of new and really old, but then knapping is a hobby of mine so of course I'm interested in things like this.", "Requires 100 Smithing", "Paleopunk", "Why not buy a real knife/push dagger/hatchet?\n\nAssuming those are push daggers and not Butt plugs.\n", "Everything is a dildo if you are brave enough.", "I spend a lot of my time napping", "no Homo", "Someone get the neolithic torx driver.", "Why buy when you can make? (Or at least make most of it)\n\nEdit: fuck your capitalist attitudes, I make shit for a hobby. Why would I spend money if I don't have to?", "Obsidian is so crazy sharp. 10 to 20x sharper than steel.\nJust google obsidian scalpel.\n\nThese on the other hand, are just art.", "Gigity", "Upvote for Horizon Zero Dawn reference", "a flint buttplug seems like a bad idea.\n\nI mean, i'm curious...but I don't think it's for me.", "It's sharp but too fragile. Any prying motion can snap obsidian easily. It's worse for a general use knife but I reckon it would make a nice kitchen knife.", "It's a good hobby", "Looks rad af.", "Coming soon from Oxo.", "Pull rank on those wanker Steam Punks.", "My guess is the handles are 3D printed so these are not functional.", "How about homosapien ", "> knapping is a hobby of mine\n\nThat's a very interesting hobby. Do you have pics or something?", "Unfortunately I only [have 1 pic](https://imgur.com/jnUpNOK) from a few months ago - I'm not very good yet, but I did manage to make an \"arrowhead\" from some glass. The bit of dacite (dull black) next to the glass is a nice sharp flake I've used a few times as a blade. The rest of it is mostly early stuff I buggered up, and a few raw rocks I had to practice on.\n\nIf you want some good stuff here on reddit, not my stuff obviously, check out r/knapping.", "I don't know why but I absolutely love* this", "[Much sharper.](https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5c88020e3144ce9f55db01b1bdc80e79) ", "They are art, but potentially not just art. You could butcher an animal with some of those. You could cut down small trees with some. Neolithic tools can be surprisingly durable (if you dont drop them...)", "[For when no other toy can dig in quite how you need it to..](https://i.imgur.com/tgWGBC3.jpg)", "Well worth the risky click in public.", "Why do you say neolithic? Just because of the hafting? \n\nThey look like mesolithic handaxes to me, especially the one on the far left and far right. Could easily be wrong, im nowhere near an expert on lithics. ", "This is what it felt like shopping at Sears right before they closed down.", "right", "Reminds me of Horizon.", "Availabe at all Cave Depots. ", "Only took me a day to remember a thing that might be right up your alley: the [30 day challenge](http://fitoneboise.org/images/uploads/blog/30-Day-Napping-Challenge.jpg)", "Nice, looks intense" ]	40	pics	Neolithic tools with a modern twist
https://i.redd.it/3ofzdvjy6ca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qoz2h/someone_left_two_hamsters_in_the_bathroom_at_my/	[ "Finish the job", "You better find them a new home.", "Smuggle them out to safety in your butt. Keep them if it feels good. ", "They’re coming home me with me tonight, I’ll probably drop them at a shelter in the morning", "I already named one lemiwinks", "Buy a Habitrail.", "Remember The Blind Side? Raise them as if you were your own. Put them through colleges despite their troubled upbringings.", "there used to be 5...", "Step 1: Put them both into 1 box\n\nStep 2: Patience \n\nStep 3: Profit", "Man, I got _five_ hamster kids to feed.", "Then the other is Wikileaks", "Enjoy them with sweet & sour or duck sauce.", "I assume the boxes have a store name on them. Return them to the pet store.", "They don’t, just says “animal carrier” ", "Call your local animal shelter and they will be able to give you a number of a rescue that will take them. Most likely a waste to take it straight to a shelter, call first.", "Find somebody with a snake?", "/u/bitchtits_mcgoo, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating the following rule(s):\n\n* Rule IV - Title violates title guidelines.\n\nYour title must not ask for general information or feedback. \n\nYou can read the full information about our title guidelines at /r/pics/w/titles\n\n\n\n\nFor information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/about/rules/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/w/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/bitchtits_mcgoo&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qoz2h/someone_left_two_hamsters_in_the_bathroom_at_my/?context=10\\))", "[Well don’t put them up your butt that’s for sure. ](https://youtu.be/Z9FJXtIUUg4)", "Thanks!" ]	19	pics	Someone left two hamsters in the bathroom at my work, wtf do I do with these?
https://i.imgur.com/U8ZSXPd.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qp20i/not_all_those_who_wander_are_lost/	[ "In search of animal crackers.", "They look lost!", "Not all who wander are lost. But this guy? He has no clue. " ]	3	pics	Not all those who wander are lost
https://i.imgur.com/6NfZlmE.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qp2tr/some_of_my_strawberries_today_were_concerningly/	[ "Fruit in general has been getting big and bland for decades", "Highly recommend The Doritos Effect by Mark Schatzker. \n\nIt's not the only book that talks about this, but he explains how Genetic Engineering (while fucking awesome) comes with drawbacks. By making larger produce, it weaken its favor and nutrition. Therefore, food companies are adding synthetic flavors to make up for it. Chicken has become so bland due to this, but produces huge results. ", "That one strawberry looks more like a fan." ]	3	pics	Some of my strawberries today were concerningly large.
https://i.redd.it/trjkzlrjaca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qp3eb/toucan_skull_with_beak_intact/	[ "Holy fuck", "Terrifying yet mildly interesting. ", "I will...put it in my room mate's pillowcase", "r/natureisfuckinglit", "Where was this found?", "Is this what Froot Loops are made of?", "Overtime will the beak lose color?", " I guess this one followed his nose too far.", "With just the beak sticking out. They will think, \"hey, sweet a toucan is in my pillow!\" Then BAM! ", "Would make a sick cod peice", "#followyournose", "Not a whole lot of room for a brain in there. No wonder he was cuckoo for cocoa puffs.", "toucan skull with beak intact pantyhose.", "You’re mixing up your cereal birds! ", "Why do you do it OP? Why must you steal content?" ]	15	pics	Toucan skull with beak intact.
https://i.imgur.com/DAXV7mU.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qp3gt/someone_projected_shithole_with_a_bunch_of_poop/	[ "It looks like this post is about US Politics. Various methods of filtering out content relating to US Politics can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/wiki/v2/resources/filter/politics).\n\nI am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pics) if you have any questions or concerns.", "Many take it for granted but, you know what really makes America great?\n\n Freedom of Speech\n\n🇺🇸 ", "Creative protest but meh. Still better to be in that hotel with the projection on the walls than most of the countries Trump was talking about. It may benefit Trump financially marginally, but the hotel itself has great service and nice comfortable rooms. Which is much much more than you can say about 80% of any of the countries referenced. When you have worked in many of them (and I have ) the term Trump is alleged to have used may be rating them higher than they deserve. \nSure some were unfairly painted (have a house in one such country which I love) but on the whole...\n\n\nI am sure I will now be voted to nonexistence but it had to said. ", "Cybervandilising a hotel with his name on it is gonna impeach him yeah! /s \n\nThe dumb fucker hasn’t been impeached for all the illegal shit he’s done yet, why do you think some racist remarks are gonna do him in this time? ", "Trump is a walking meme\n\nAnything he says turns into a meme ", "Old news", "Karma whore", "Bernie still has a chance! Match me brother!", "The issue isn’t whether or not the countries he’s talking about were “shitholes” or not, the issue is he was talking about having an immigration system built not on merit or capability, but on racism.\n\n“Why do we have people from these shithole countries coming here”", "Merit based as well, as educated, easily settled, cognizant of and appreciate thesocial mores in the US, and rich immigrants generally do not come from those countries.\n I think you want to say \"refugees\" as they would not merit based I would say yes it would be more likely to take them in from these countries rather than western Europe or Asia. Merit based assumes that merit is had, which is much more likely from the latter two continents. You will notice that I have qualified this by saying most, not all, would fail a merit test from those countries. \nBut that said Most of those countries are not nice places to be... a straight statement of fact without the vulgarity added. \nEven at worst Trump's statement was not \"the people from these countries are shit\", he called their countries \"shitholes\". Please don't equate a country and their people as the same. \n\nA thought to end on though: a rose can bloom in a pile of dung. ", "It's not a shithole, god\n\nWe already know he's into piss", "Wow, so clever! Surely this is the end of Drumpff lol!", "That's not protected free speech. It's childish footstomping pretending to be political activism.\n", "This is a bunch of nonsense, African countries have blossoming middle classes and have highly functional educational programs. Trump didn’t even hint at a merit based system, he said “why do we have people from these shithole countries coming in...not people from Norway” he was talking about the people and then chose to distinguish them by talking about Norway, the whitest country ever.", "lol are you going to pretend Haiti isn't a shithole? Norwegians have more to offer our country than Haitians. It is a fact.", "Nah, Oprah all the way. ", "How are your two point connected? How does Haiti is a bad place, therefore it’s people have less to offer the country, make sense?", "That hotel is LITERALLY the opposite of such.\n", "It's called political theater and it was a cornerstone of 60s activism. Because an act like this stands out far more to your average citizen than yet another march or picket line. Google Abbie Hoffman and tell us more about how he wasn't a \"real\" political activist. For that matter you must have terrible opinions of the civil rights movement considering how many of their actions were blatantly illegal. ", "Yelp had people complaining about roaches and bed bugs waaay before his comments.", "How are you missing the connection? Awful countries go hand in hand with a broken society mass scale. It's like buying your kid a puppy and then the puppy dies of no food and there is shit all over the carpet. Awful countries always have backwards views on almost everything. Healthy countries are healthy because the people in those specific countries have more freedoms, more education, better healthcare, less crime because they worked for generations to make sure these systems were in place. You need to assimilate smoothly , you have to, and people from \"shithole\" countries, especially ones who are already grown and set in their ways, often have trouble or don't try all together. ", "8 year olds, dude.", "So edgy.. damn.", "Maybe it's not political activism. Maybe it's just funny because it's true that that place is a tacky shithole.", "Firstly I think it’s crazy that you’re calling African/South American countries bad at education and healthcare, the US is ranked 36 in healthcare and 20 in terms of education.\n\nAfrican immigrants are more educated than the average immigrant and are far more educated than those who are native born.\n\nhttp://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-global-african-immigrants-explainer-20180112-story.html\n\nThe obvious reason is because you’re getting the African immigrant who can afford to live here, African immigrants are typically highly skilled professionals, 41% of them have college degrees, making them better educated than the average Norwegian immigrant, 38% of which have college degrees.\n\nBut even if it wasn’t true that the average African immigrant is better educated and wealthier than the average American, and it is true, what would that matter? You’re the only country on earth with a literal sign outside your country saying “give us your wretched refuse,” if you don’t stand by your promise, take the sign down and quit being a hypocrite.\n\nIn terms of assimilation, I’m an immigrant and I’m not assimilating. Who would want to assimilate with a burning car? ", "I didn't once say Africa let alone anything related to Africans.", "When the President said shithole countries, he was talking about Haiti and Africa", "So are the countries that he allegedly called shitholes ", "Now THAT sounds like childish footstomping.\nAlso, he should wanna hang with em then because they both like shitholes so much : p.", "Good one. Do your kids write all your replies? ", "C'mon, don't give up so easily, little buddy! Let's keep talking!", "Projector graffiti is awesome. ", "This isn't speech.", ">The issue isn’t whether or not the countries he’s talking about were “shitholes” or not, the issue is he was talking about having an immigration system built not on merit or capability, but on racism.\n>\n>“Why do we have people from these shithole countries coming here” \n\nRight? I mean he says shithole countries. That's clearly racism because as we non-racists know, a person is their country. It's not who you are, it's where you're from that's important. That just goes without saying in the minds of everyone on the right side of history - unlike all those rednecks from flyover States who probably voted for Trump because they're only barely smart enough to breathe. So anyway if the country is a shithole, clearly the person is a shithole too. That's how evil Trump is, judging people he's never met like that!", "Are you trying to say that I am racist against people from the flyover states? Because that’s not true. Or are you saying that I shouldn’t dislike Trump because I’ve never met him? Because I’m judging him to be a racist because of his long history with racism.", ">Are you trying to say that I am racist against people from the flyover states? Because that’s not true. \n\nNot exactly. It's a bit more nuanced than that.\n\n>Or are you saying that I shouldn’t dislike Trump because I’ve never met him?\n\nTrump's the only person who's not racist but has been called racist in recent months I suppose. I was just lampooning the left via sarcastically describing them as if I were one of them. Honestly I thought I might puke while writing it.\n\n> Because I’m judging him to be a racist because of his long history with racism.\n\nYou mean his long history with being called [racist](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/trump-designates-martin-luther-king-jr-birthplace-national-park-n836221) because he's a white male by people you must agree with in order to remain popular on social media. ", "I have no idea where you got the idea that the left hates white males and it’s really, really obvious the man is a racist.\n\nHe called the first Black President a secret Kenyan for years\n\nHe launched his campaign calling Mexicans rapists\n\nHe said that a Mexican judge wasn’t able to try his case because of his ethnicity\n\nHe uses the term “Pocahontas” when referring to Elizabeth Warren\n\nHis real estate company tried to avoid selling to African Americans\n\nHe said that laziness was inherent in blacks\n\nHe called for the complete ban on Muslims entering the country\n\nHe said that all people from Haiti have aids\n\nHe said all Nigerians live in huts\n\nAnd he just said “Why do we have people from these shithole countries coming in...more from places like Norway.”\n\nHe retweet’s White Supremacists\n\nHe called people marching with the KKK and Nazis “very fine people”\n\nHe endorsed Roy Moore who doesn’t think Muslims should serve in Congress\n\nHe pardoned Arpaio", ">I have no idea where you got the idea that the left gates white males and it’s really, really obvious the man is a racist.\n\n>He called the first Black President a secret Kenyan for years\n\nBecause he wouldn't release his birth certificate kinda like how the left makes shit up about the taxes Trump didn't release. Politics are politics, not racism. Also so did Hillary.\n\n\n>He launched his campaign calling Mexicans rapists\n\nIf you think everyone involved in the illegal immigrant TRADE is a boyscout, or even that most of them are stand up folks, you're a naive twat\n\n>He said that a Mexican judge wasn’t able to try his case because of his ethnicity\n\nHe says he probably would be biased because he was Mexican descent. He wasn't wrong. The left had already began painting him as a racist by this time because of his stance on illegal immigration. And the judge in question belonged to a racist organization (by your standards, minus the double standard that makes you racist against whites)\n\n>His real estate company tried to avoid selling to African Americans\n\nLike just about every other place in that area. And do we know that he was directly overseeing who got in in all his apartments? And that it was indeed racism and not a matter of credit eschewing the class divide in a metropolitan area? Business can be rough. And he was running a business. Not a charity.\n\n>He said that laziness was inherent in blacks\n\nI heard about that on the gorilla channel. Those guys are some super predators lol. Point being I don't care about made up shit or the manifestos of pissed off ex employees.\n\n>He called for the complete ban on Muslims entering the country\n\nNope\n\n>He said that all people from Haiti have aids\n\nYou must be ripped to throw that sack of shit from hearsay to hyperbole and beyond. Anyway Haiti's got more aids than any place else in the region so...\n\n>He said all Nigerians live in huts\n\nA lot of them fucking do lol! But I digress. \n\n\"White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders gave the rebuttal on Saturday, saying: “General Kelly, General McMaster, Secretary Tillerson, Secretary Nielsen and all other senior staff actually in the meeting deny these outrageous claims.\"\n\nSo it's a load of he said she said bullshit. I wasn't interested in that kind of shit even in middle School.\n\n>And he just said “Why do we have people from these shithole countries coming in...more from places like Norway.” \n\n>He retweets white supremacists\n\nHe retweeted literally one alleged white supremacist who was calling out the lack of media coverage regarding the huge number of slayings in predominantly black cities. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. And that a week after (actually verifiable unlike all the racist shit he allegedly said) saying 'Racism is evil—and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans,” but that doesn't matter. Why? Because you're the fucking racists.\n\n>He called the people matching with the KKK very fine people\n\nHe also called the other side the same thing. He said there were very fine people on both sides. He said some of them weren't white supremacists, KKK, neo Nazis, they just liked the historical statues. You think the counter protesters were great do you? Antifa is just fine and dandy? If he's guilty of anything it's of being overly optimistic about both sides lol. The lefts constant condemnation of one side and not the other is indicative of it's own racism. Trump didn't pick a side. Neither do I. Only racists like you do.\n\n>He endorsed Roy Moore who doesn't think Muslims should serve in Congress\n\nProposing to ban people from serving in the Congress due to their faith is a violation of the Constitution. But in this case there is some poignancy that deserves conversation. One side wants to ban them all outright. The other wants to ignore the fact that their faith repeatedly calls for the murder of anyone who disagrees with them, and does so repeatedly, and very strongly. You might make the case that other religions are similar, but that case is vapor. \n\n>He pardoned arpaio\n\nProfiling is illegal. But it's also science.\n\n\nBut Yeah Haiti needs to get it's aids problem under control before I won't consider it a shithole. The nugerian hut thing is kinda rude I like those huts I wish I lived in one - wait no I don't. They do look cool though I wanna go camping in one. Illegal immigrants don't give a fuck about laws, obviously. Yeah I still don't see the racism here. You're just pissed because he doesn't pussy foot around your ridiculous feelings. I'd like him even better if he deliberately stomped on them at this point tbqh. \n\n\nAlso, you're the fucking racists. ", "If you’re just going to parrot conspiracy theories about Obama being born in Kenya and Clinton knowing it, then I’m done.\n\nAlso Trump called for a Muslim ban on tv! How did you miss this?\n\nhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=viDffWUjcBA", ">If you’re just going to parrot conspiracy theories about Obama being born in Kenya and Clinton knowing it, then I’m done.\n\nYou've been done\n\n>Also Trump called for a Muslim ban on tv! How did you miss this?\n>\n>https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=viDffWUjcBA\n\nA temporary ban until we can figure out what the hell is going on. Fearmongering? Maybe. But there are a lot of Muslims who want me dead. That's a fact. Racism? No. Islam isn't a fucking race.", "It plays into his racism, because a bunch of them are brown.", ">It plays into his racism, because a bunch of them are brown.\n\nThat statement is indicative of your racism. Not Trumps.", "Riiight, calling out Trump’s blatant racism is itself racist, it’s not like most Muslims live in Indonesia and the Middle East or anything like that.\n\nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country", ">Riiight, calling out Trump’s blatant racism is itself racist, \n\nNeither of us did either of those things.\n\n>it’s not like most Muslims live in Indonesia and the Middle East or anything like that.\n\n>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country\n\nPeople are not their countries. We've gone full circle now.\n\nbut since there doesnt seem to be a cure for liberalism yet, [heres a video detailing how to be even worse than you are currently](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNia4vo2GNI). some diseases just need to run their course. ", "Imagine if Bill and Hillary were bright enough to own hotels? That would be rad man!", ">Cybervandilising a hotel with his name on it is gonna impeach him yeah! /s\nThe dumb fucker hasn’t been impeached for all the illegal shit he’s done yet, why do you think some racist remarks are gonna do him in this time?\n\nexcept neither of those things have happened. no illegal shit, no racism. \n\nwell there is some racism attached to all this if you want to be honest. that poop emoji could be taken as racist. ", "What you wanna talk about ", "Well you're the Roastmaster and you gave me a \"Good one\" which is the equivalent of \"Shut up!\" in an argument so I was egging you on to keep going since you fizzled out. I'm really over it. Really the point is, anyone who says \"Well Haiti IS a shithole! What?! He can't say what's TRUE?\" are trying to gloss over the fact that it's fucked up to call a country a shithole because you're calling the citizens shitty people. That's where ALL of this came from. Because my President is a shriveled little cock of a man.", "Certainly doesn't sound like you're over it. And me saying good one was actually me feeling a bit embarased for you due to your poor comment. Certainly no fizzling out from me, I'll keep this pointless shit going all day ", "No, I mean I'm over this Points to me and you And thank you. It's not often that someone admits to liking a comment from someone mid \"argument\".", "Haha you've completely lost me there. I don't understand your reply and I am actually quite intelligent ", "I know you are, buddy. I know you are.", "Atleast Americans will travel to his shithole", "I walked past that building a month ago. Not being from DC I actually wondered which building it was, as it looked very nice. As I turned the corner and got to the entrance I couldn't help but laugh when I saw the sign. Definitely isn't a shithole." ]	56	pics	Someone projected "SHITHOLE" with a bunch of poop emojis on Trump Hotel in D.C. 💩
https://i.redd.it/piz8appsaca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qp3li/hotel_made_a_sloth_out_of_some_cloth/	[ "#Don't open it!\n\n ^^it's ^^full ^^of ^^moths", "Or a hostage.", "Looks like the Sloth is being questioned harshly.", "scloth?", "My family calls that the dead chicken. ", "ha ha " ]	6	pics	Hotel made a sloth out of some cloth
https://i.redd.it/az0o5a1pbca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qp527/this_4100_bottle_of_whiskey_at_my_local_liquor/	[ "Why’s it so expensive?", "Ooooooo boy, 60% abv ", "Ummmm KY person here. I can get you a whole barrel for that price. Really. ", "What do you expect the shipping costs might run me, if say you were to send a whole barrel to Phoenix, AZ?", "I'm gonna guess that's $40.99. [It's ten bucks more](http://www.bevmo.com/catalog/product/view/id/13134) in my high-tax state.", "I now want to be a bourbon smuggler. ", "Road trip!!!!!\n\nI feel like I should edit this comment and mention that I’m going to need a speedy car and a semi for my boy Snowman. ", "I think there’s a decimal point off on that price", "Like /u/xwing_n_it said. It’s probably a misprint. ", "It is apparently a very special bottle. The price tag has the right decibel placement.", "If it's the same whiskey, any idea why they would put the placard on it?", "It is a single barrell reserve. Anyone can pay about $2800, go to the distillery, take a tour, pick a barrell, and in \"x\" years take delivery. Or, you can by an already aged barrel. It is than bottled, and you can chose the \"special label. In Louisville all the large liqour stores have their own \"reserve\" label. ", "> decibel\n\n?!", "This is practically just asking for bender to rob your store. " ]	15	pics	This $4,100 bottle of whiskey at my local liquor store is lucky it was not in Hawaii on Saturday.
https://i.redd.it/w4xd9qw8eca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qp7ql/a_new_store_opened_in_boston/	[ "Defiantly haven’t heard that one before. \n", "Love to be that guy, but where would there space to open a store like that in Boston. Try Quincy or another city. ", "Omg! Fucking hilarious \n" ]	3	pics	A new store opened in Boston
https://i.imgur.com/2Wjs81C.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qp7w6/this_is_nuts/	[ "Someone is gonna see this and think \"I'd find a way...to fuck it\"", "I want this.", "Fleshlight that shit bro.", "I’d screw that ", "i hope not they'd be screwed", "This is the first time in my life I've been aroused by a bunch of nuts on reddit " ]	6	pics	This is nuts
https://i.imgur.com/AcYW3iE.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpasi/dear_thief_you_may_have_all_of_my_tools_but_he/	[ "I hope he resists arrest so they can whip his ass", "Yet they will never run the prints through the system", "Well now you just gotta hope the thief is in their system and that they aren't back logged by a few months like most places are.....", "Why do you say that?", "Surprised they even did this. Police in my state won't even bother with it even on company break ins, let alone a car. You have to ask and fight with them usually to get them to even do their job. ", "I’m my experience theft is just not worth the paperwork and stuff ", "Nothing can be done with fingerprints. Now, if he had ejaculated and then broke into your truck, maybe they'd find him", "Years ago a friend of mines work truck was robbed, stole so much shit. We were talking about it, and after adding it up it may have been as much as 20k it's crazy how much you can have loosely in a pickup truck. Nice portable table saws, all the battery operated equipment, generator etc... Adds up quick \n\nGood luck, Hope you find the thieves.", "My car got broken into once OP.\n\nIt was a couple of junkies looking for change we later learned. After I chased them off with a sword in my skivvies, I saw they had taken my old prescription sun glasses, about 3$ in change, and some cream savers. I was honestly most upset about the cream savers, those things are hard to find!", "Where I'm from they won't even check for prints if the theft is under $5000", "Looks like his shirt reads \"Officer Frankenstein\"\n\nYour thief is a monster", "Depends on the municipality. Where’s OP from?", "It's not finger printing dust, it's Jizz. Thief is screwed.", "When my truck was broken into I called the police and the dispatcher said they'll send someone out if they have to, but it would be a waste of everyone's time and they strongly encouraged me to just fill out a police report online instead.", "Same thing happened to my car, Yeah. They found a lot of stuff. From bodily fluid and hair samples, they determined that a bunch of old, homeless dudes had an orgy in the car. You know what that's called when they do that in there? That's called a soup kitchen. It's pretty rough stuff. Not long after that, a mama raccoon came along and gave birth on the floor.No. Believe me, everybody that was in on this orgy was more than willing. In fact, they even left you a note here. \"Thanks for the F-shack. Love, Dirty Mike and the boys.\" Here's something we found. We found about a dozen unscratched lottery tickets. No fingerprints or nothing. Check that out. Yeah, it's a real shame, you know. I got myself a Prius. It's a hell of a machine.", "Expected to see something about the undertaker in there. ", "It’s that fine jizz dust that is always giving them up", "Might depend on the area. My guess is OP’s city is probably pretty quiet with little crime. Cop was probably bored.", "Where do they actually take prints for this kind of thing? ", "When my dad's shop was broken into, the investigator told my father that they would never find time to run the prints, then heavily implied that a donation to the local police association would expedite the investigation. He made the donation and the police jumped on the case. They found most of the stolen equipment (including all the big items like welding torches and toolboxes full of tools) within a week and a box of expensive testing equipment like a month later. They made two arrests but couldn't come up with enough evidence to charge both, so one guy ended up doing time for the whole thing.", "Hope he does not chip a tooth. ", "Depends where this is, but many places have a law that says the police won't investigate anything under $500 loss. ", "ENHANCE ", "I'm sure you can find some more tomorrow when you're at the mall.", "[Direct copy and paste](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/30s2g6/dear_thief_you_may_have_all_of_my_tools_but_he/) from the karma bot account /u/kurtjennifer ", "Stealing someone's tools is as shitty as it gets - you're robbing them twice, really. I'm usually opposed to corporal punishment, but not in cases like this.", "I feel like I need to try this at my job... \"You know I'm just really not sure this is worth my time to try and fix. You could buy a new one or you know if you were to maybe drop off a cheeseburger, say around noonish, I could definitely find the time to take a second look.\"", "It always depends on the municipality. It also depends on whether the officer writing the report is able to determine Probable Cause based on the evidence they find to issue a warrant for the individual printed. It'll be tough to determine beyond a reasonable doubt that the prints on the window are linked to the thief and not to someone who may have braced themselves as they slipped or other means that a hand print would be placed on a car window." ]	29	pics	Dear thief, you may have all of my tools, but he has your finger prints
https://i.redd.it/ytmzftthhca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpc24/i_preordered_my_first_vinyl_late_last_night_i/	[ "Its your fault", "Enjoy, you'll certainly listen to it with a different frame of mind. ", "/u/BrandyonTX, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating the following rule(s):\n\n* Rule I - No screenshots. This includes pictures of screens and photos where the interest is the contents of a screen.\n\n\n\nFor information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/about/rules/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/w/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/BrandyonTX&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qpc24/i_preordered_my_first_vinyl_late_last_night_i/?context=10\\))" ]	3	pics	I pre-ordered my first vinyl late last night. I don't know what to think today.
https://i.imgur.com/zOPZ1NN.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpd0u/santa_barbara_mudslide_casualty/	[ "Wow, that’s surreal ", "Is it taxidermy", "Here's a car on the same beach. Photos taken by a friend. [car ball](https://i.imgur.com/caoNZ0O.jpg)", "Poor guy", "Yes, it is." ]	5	pics	Santa Barbara mudslide casualty
https://i.imgur.com/kH9AoiE.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpd0x/mount_rainier_towering_over_seattle/	[ "/r/EarthPorn", "This looks like a floating heaven", "I'm confused because I live in Tacoma and it doesn't look that big", "It's probably because he angled the camera, look at the way the buildings are aligned relative to the camera", "It always blew my mind how some mountains float", "Also, a long focal length lens will distort the rleative size difference between a little far and very far. The same effect is used for the crazy-huge supermoon photos.", "If you live in Tacoma, does that mean in an idling car on I-5? I lived there a whole weekend recently.", "> I'm confused because I live in Tacoma\n\nThat's a common side effect of the fumes.", "Tick", "As someone who lives in Seattle, this is a strange altered perspective", "Looks like a floating city ", "Do you want Californians? Because that's how you get Californians.", "The bluest skies you've ever seen in Seattle.", "Love seeing pictures of my home state. PNW is so beautiful. There are so many different climates packed into just a few states.", "I do everything in my power to avoid the atrocity that is I-5", "It really is beautiful, and she rises basically from sea level up to 4,392 meters at her peak, she really dominates the landscape around here ", "And we know that Rainier is the tallest mountain in which state? Washington. ", "Hey! I-5 is perfectly fine between Bakersfield and the grapevine!", "\"I swear to God if she tries to claim the idea for Bluthton I will burn it to the ground!\"", "oops too late", "I'm in Seattle and unfortunately it doesn't look this big irl.", "It actually looks different from the other side. When I moved from Oly to Seattle, Mt Rainier looked weird to me. I like the view from the south way better. ", "This makes me miss Washington just that much more!", "The local Indians called it Tahoma, the mountain that moves.", "Shh it's our secret ;)", "Telephoto lens.\n\nLos Angeles does not look like this either, it's the effect of using a long lens.\n\nhttp://www.city-data.com/forum/members/salparadise-1173843-albums-la-scenes-pic76401-downtown-la-winter.jpg", "This same comment is on this same pic posted 2 years ago, verbatim. Why?", "We don't like rain. Seattle is like the natives did a rain dance and never stopped. ", "Except on holiday weekends, then it’s a mad house getting through there. Especially with those new lame outlet stores.", "Thank you. Came to say the same thing.", "I think that is the U district", "That's intentional. If it looked that big in Tacoma, someone would steal it.", "Seattle has been California's suburb since the 80s. ", "It looks pretty fucking huge from Vancouver though", "This photo makes me feel uneasy and scared. I have always had a fear of large objects in the sky... I guess I am crazy :P", "BS trickery. I see this mountain everyday and it's not that big. ", "Ayyy", "Vancouver, WA or the real Vancouver?", "The good one", "It's sad because it already does look pretty big (at least from Puyallup) without the distortion", "You mean Mt. Baker then?", "Oh shit, no you're right, I got my mountains messed up. I saw Baker today, then I saw this post and they look so similar I got confused, sorry about that", "SKY MOUNTAIN! ", "That is Mt.Baker\n", "You're right, it doesn't look like that at all from my backyard in Youngstown (Boardman actually).", "The Tacoma aroma is a developed taste. ", "I don't know how, but I swear the farther away you get the larger it looks. I love near seatac and get a good view every once in a while, but every time I see it from downtown or further north I'm blown away by how imposing it looks. ", "Castle in the sky", "And the hills the greenest green in Seattle ", "I see the elk!", "This is an average conversation on a day like this up here\n\nsips starbucks \"nice day huh?\"\n\"Yep. The mountain's out today.\"", "Spam accounts.", "I'm on to you Carmen Sandiago", "Took me forever to try and figure out where in Seattle that roller coaster on the lower left corner was located." ]	55	pics	Mount Rainier towering over Seattle
https://i.redd.it/okcev8q2kca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpemk/how_times_have_changed/	[ "Instead Of CREATING a show about the south winning the civil war, the GOT creators should use this idea.", "Except England had better living conditions ", "If the countries Trump was talking about had superior technology, industry, or economies, this comparison would be relevant. \n\nBut by forcing the issue to be about race—note to liberals: everyone is tired of the race card—the media misses yet another opportunity to make a more intelligent critique of Trump. I mean, c'mon guys, it's not difficult to make an intelligent critique of many of Trump's actions! \n\nWhat's mind boggling is just how often supposedly intelligent people completely fail to do so, and in their histrionics end up painting themselves worse than their target.", "Great style. It's like Street Fighter II inflected political cartoon art.", "Is the point that the First Nations person making the shithole statement is a fucking douchebag too? Seems like times haven’t changed at all by this lame ass attempt at being edgy. \n\nEdit: fucking autocorrect ", "I’m not sure this is sending the message you think it is. ", "As a part Native American conservative I approve this message.", "Are you implying that immigrants are foreign invaders that are coming to the US to murder millions of people and take over the country? \n\nAnd how is this a picture? ", "The irony of a /r/T_D user lecturing people about \"histrionics\" and intelligence. Nobody \"forced\" the issue about race. It was made clear it was a race issue when Trump advocated for more Norwegians to come here while disregarding immigrants from brown countries as unworthy because they came from \"shitholes\".", "Political cartoons are funny sometimes. This isn't one of those times.", "No. Bad cartoon.\n\nE: I’m sure the intent is good, but this is not helpful commentary.", "Fun fact (from Charles C Mann’s book 1491):\nUpon meeting the natives, one of the early European explorers (I forget who), wrote in his diary that the people they met were super gross for blowing snot rockets.\n\nAnd on the flip side, one of the natives (I forget who or how this was documented), observed that the white men were super gross for blowing their noses into a piece of cloth, inexplicably “saving for later what belongs on the ground.”\n\nEdit: thank you u/redditingtonIV for correction on 1491 being by Charles C Mann, not Jared Diamond. ", "How isn't it?", "Truth South Americans bathed, had running water and sewage systems. They were not dying from living in their own filth. Luckily they were civilized by the interlopers and murdered and raped by Columbus (colon) and friends. ", "hahaha no. Much of England and Europe were in the middle of the worst part of the Little Ice-age. Constant cold rains and insanely cold winters made for very short growing seasons. Famine was common. England was still recovering from the huge cost of the War of the Roses. Class disparity was huge. Children death rate was the highest ever in history.\n\nPeople didn't move to America for religious freedom. They moved because they were starving, had no economic power, and no voice in their country.", "Lol\n\nMade clear to someone actively looking to become offended", "The genocide that happened after they came ", "Whomp 'em.", "High cheek bones?", "Let's not be like the natives.", "Nope more from my Scottish ancestored father. Irvin or Irvine with ever you prefer.", "Gets drunk easily ", "Now reddit doesnt like Norway? I've seen 3 years straight of gloating about how great it is and now were not supposed to want them?", "You completely misunderstood my point. ", "Much of the uproar about the \"shithole\" comment seems to be centered around the immigrants from those countries by and large being good people worthy of us accepting them as a net positive. The idea generally holds water, the vast majority of people are good imo. One of the sayings mindlessly put forth is \"we're a nation of immigrants\", implying previous immigration(often from \"shithole\" countries of the time) was good, thus so would current/future immigration. Not wrong imo.\n\nBut in the historical context of this picture the immigrants from the \"shithole countries\" wound up fucking destroying dozens civilizations and took what was theirs for their own. Conflating the impending doom of the Native American population with current day immigration isn't exactly a sound argument.\n\nThus the message that immigration is good is couched in a really shitty setting for that message. Ask your closest Tribal Council if European immigration was good for their nations.", "Y'all gonna have heart attacks from all the salt.", "You dont think it had anything to do with him meeting with Norways PM the day before?", "I guess r/pics has turned into r/politics overnight...", "I love immigrant/pilgrim comparisons.\n\n\"They're just like our pilgrim ancestors!\"\n\nOh, so they're a direct existential threat to our current way of life? lmao", "Remember that week on Christmas when r/pics was entirely devoid of political posts? It was strange these returned after new year happened. ", "They'll all go crazy and kill each other and go cannibal, eat some natural mushrooms, get high and lynch a bunch of witches too", "Preposterous! ", "And then they ransacked 1/3 of a continent.", "1491 was written by Charles C. Mann. Maybe you meant Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond? The subject matter of both books is somewhat similar. 1491 is one of my favorite books and I enjoyed Guns, Germs, and Steel but I’ve also read criticisms that Diamond’s conclusions as to why certain civilizations thrived while others suffered is sort of a leap. ", "Seems consistent. They don't want them here.", "I think the cartoon is simply referring to the view that the countries which these interlopers are coming from are shitholes and they don't want them here.\n\nConfirmed when disease, rape, poor hygiene and genocide was brought with the interlopers.", "And they still managed to conquer half of the world from that shit island.", "And every time I try to blow a snot rocket it either whistles and rattles in my nose making it extremely uncomfortable, or just ends up this long string of snot that hangs into nose hairs while sticking to my face.", "I like the commentary just fine. Not all immigrants are good immigrants. That’s a valuable lesson. Imagine if the natives were unified and defended their borders, they might still control their land.", "So there no black people in Norway? Hmm. ", "Wow so deep", "We understand that liberals are a bunch of racists who assume because someone asks why we are promoting protections for failed countries instead of a successful country, that this has to do with the race of the people who live there. That’s entirely a liberal conclusion.\n\nSame as why banning travel with Obama’s list of failed/terrorist countries is anti-Islam. Oh you happened to notice there’s a correlation with Islam and failure/terrorism? Isn’t that quaint, feel free to expand why you think that is the case, but it doesn’t change the end result we need to address that these places exist.", "It's been an extension of r/politics for a year minimum", "The Elizabeth Warren special", "Trump's an asshole, but for real though, isn't many places in Africa actually are a shithole? Ethiopia isn't exactly a hot tourist attraction.", "So you're saying Norwegians are better because they are white? It has nothing to do with the wealth of the country, and all that it brings with it?", "Likely not.\n\nA large part of how the first colony in Plymouth succeeded was due to a massive plague that had wiped out most of the indian tribes on the east coast. Some figures put the number as high as 90% lost to the plague in the years after columbus, but before the Plymouth settlement was established. This plague spread along the trade routes and when it hit tribes would lose 20-50% of their population in a single year. \n\nIt was a sad state of affairs, but a similar fate was met by Aztec and other tribes in Mexico after Cortez. In 50 years the population of what is now Mexico went from 30-50 million to about 3 million. New world natives just didn't have any natural immunity to diseases brought over by Europeans.\n\nI know this isn't your point, but I thought an educational tidbit might improve the shit show that is pics. ", "Not to .... uh ... sound like I'm agreeing with something trumple said... didn't things work out pretty badly for the natives after letting the people in?", "That was my first thought.... shit trump is right, if we let these people in we all die ", "Right....cause Christopher Columbus was from Haiti. Stupid.", "The paid shills had time off.", "Sure until a settler sneezed on one of them.", "Yes, I didn't take his \"shithole country\" comment to be racist. He was talking about shitty places to live. It was rude, but it was accurate. \n\nAnd if there are mostly dark skinned people in many of the shittiest places to live, then I won't draw any conclusions there, but perhaps there is something behind it.", "Every ethnic group has assholes, don't be one.", "Honestly, Trump should be ashamed (assuming he can feel that emotion.) \nRidiculing a developing country is like making fun of a fat person busting it at the gym. ", "CTR machine hasn't turned off yet. ", "When any group of people moved to any other group of people's countries ", "So native americans had better hygiene and medical care than english people? They didn't have rapes before english came?", " England had much better living standards than America in that time. \n\nJust like Norway has much better living standards than America today. That's why we should prefer immigrants from Norway. ", "Can we analyse the thought process of people who make native American analogies in support* of modern mass migration?\n\n\"I gotta prove that open borders allowing mass migration into our lands is good for our people.\"\n\n....\n\n\"I know, I'll mention the same ethnic group that was wiped out by migrants, this will prove that unchecked migration from a vastly different culture is a good thing\".\n\nI mean why would you go for the worst possible example? If a person is saying \"but open borders and mass migration from hostile cultures will result in bad things happening to our people and our nation\" why the fuck would your counter argument be \"yeah but remember when the Native Americans were in a similar position and did just that, it went great!\"\n\n\nIt's like arguing against a Second Amendment advocate who fears government tyranny oppressing a defenseless and unarmed populace by reminding us that it went fine in Nazi Germany for the Jews when they weren't allowed guns. Why even bring up an argument that only weakens your case?", "mods asleep? thought pics with text werent allowed", "Norway has much better living standards than America? Is there a study that supports this?", "There's lots of them. [This](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where-to-be-born_Index) should suffice (go beyond the 1988 one to the 2013 one).", "[Here](https://www.google.ca/url?q=http://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/undp-most-liveable-country/index.html&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwisstrGnNzYAhUIgLwKHV2WBa0QFggPMAE&usg=AOvVaw0mRK2Q_y9BXm30FQFdJKwW) and [Here](https://www.google.ca/url?q=https://borgenproject.org/norway-quality-of-life-far-exceeds-america/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjJxe6bnNzYAhVQNrwKHeCvC7MQFggbMAU&usg=AOvVaw36LRZSKMHVE5BZRH7zxnkk)", "Arabs ans Mongols too. ", "Yeah, at least last time I checked there aren't immigrants bringing smallpox wiping out small villages. ", "India and China are developing countries. Haiti isn't, it's a shithole. ", "It might or might not support the \"much\" (OP didn't state whether that's metric or imperial \"much\"), but here's some [UN data](https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=ife8n327iup1s_&ctype=b&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=s&met_y=indicator_103706&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&met_x=indicator_137506&scale_x=lin&ind_x=false&ifdim=country&ind=false&icfg=&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=b&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=s&met_x=indicator_137506&scale_x=lin&ind_x=false&met_y=indicator_103706&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&idim=country:15503:22103&ifdim=country&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false) that shows at least a bit of a difference.", "Very few Norwegians wants to move to USA. We have it so much better in Norway with all our benefits. There are many interesting and fun things to do and see in America. But it is really good to come home after a visit :)", "Just hepatitis and dysentery ", "CTR machine 🅱roke!", "More Norwegians live in the US than in Norway. Kinda interesting.", "Why is Norway so prosperous and Haiti, and many other third world countries, so poor?", "So you dont think it stand to reason that the people who live in third world countries have worse education, health, and more violent cultures? I mean thats why theyre third world countries right? Its completely unrelated that these people arent white, and if you insist it is youre being racist.", "🤔^🤔^^🤔^^^🤔^^^^^🤔", "I agree you don't even need stats in this case, it is clearly a great country.\n\nOne thing people overlook though is the US has provided a lot important technology for the world that has helped them improve. For example advanced medical technology, computing and even legal stuff.\n\nIt's easy to say \"that's all consumerism\" but a cheap washing machine helps poor people spend money on more important things.", "Obviously didn't understand that. Probably never been to Haiti.", "So you say, but my ancestors did just great for thousands of years before anyone from England came here.", "Can't talk for everyone else, but it might be the massive oil and gass reserves norway has... Or a gouvernment thats not corrupt to the core. Or well educated people that invest the money well. Or a well educated populus thats educated enough to have a saying in whats smart or not to do with the money... But mostly full control over the nations natural reserves.", "Trumpist argumentation. History is not the present or the future.\n\nNorway transitioned from being dominated by Sweden to the wealthiest nation in the world due to the exploitation of North Sea crude. The profits are nationalized.\n\nOther than to work as an exec in an oil patch or a partner, there is zero incentive for a Norwegian to immigrate to the US.\n\nBut if a US citizen immigrates to Norway as a citizen, they become 200k wealthier.", "Citizens vote for their leaders. You and I don't get to vote for the policies of Haiti or any other shithole.\n\nIt doesn't mean all the citizens are bad people. But they clearly have ideologies that result in poor governing. You can try to pin it all on the west and imperialism but plenty of things don't get explained properly by that theory (e.g. elections where horrible platforms get voted in, bad cultural beliefs about women etc.).\n\nAlso when people blame it all on the west they very rarely account for the billions in foreign aid the west gives out to them. At the very least that is a form of reparations.", "I don't get it at all", "https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan\n\nThat’s just one example. \nWhites aren’t the problem. They just currently sit in the privileged position, in the West. But that’s over a very brief time frame when you think about human history as a whole. You have to fight the way of thinking, not the privileged class. Otherwise if you win you’ll be privileged and you’ll be the same as them. A black lesbian has a chance of being oppressive and violent equal to a cis white straight man’s chance. It’s not the people it’s the ideology.", "Haiti is a beautiful island. Why not make a success of tourism? They have quaint little towns in their mountainous regions. It's sad their govt is so corrupt. I often wonder why our own corrupt govt gives money to their corrupt govt., it certainly hasn't flowed down to the citizens.", "They are doing even greater now. ", "Reddit's hard-on over Norway's culture is pretty racist because they are virtually a white monoculture compared to the US. It's honestly near nazi levels of white-loving.", "I simply made a statement and didn't argue anything. In fact the statement I made was so trivial it can be true or false based on the date and specifics of the statistics. Why does everything have to be one side or the other?", "Yes. And reparations only to the govt., not the citizens who deserve it. Haiti is run by corrupt dictators and I believe Norway gets to elect their leaders even though they used to be a monarchy. Seems their leaders care, ours do not. America is corrupt. ", "Nice to see it backfiring though. Let's stop using this sub for propaganda pics.", "Fuck’s sake. \n\nIt’s not about the living conditions in the countries the people are from. No one cares that Trump doesn’t like Haiti, nor is that surprising news. Its about Trump calling for a merit based system, and then saying off the top of his head that a very positive merit for an immigrant to have is “Norwegian”.\n\nA Haitian or African man cannot aspire to become Norwegian. He can’t “achieve” Norwegianism. And a criminal is not more deserving of a spot in America than a doctor just because he’s Norwegian and the doctor is Hatian. That’s because “Norwegian” isn’t a merit. So, following logically, the merit based immigration system, as pitched by the president and as defended by his cabal, is not actually merit based, because it isn’t based on merits. Instead, it’s based on something else—which, hmm 🤔, what ever could it be.", "Or making fun of trump's hands, or his skin, or his hair, or his wife, or his body ...", "Uh, well, considering the implication is that the guy you’re responding to is likely Native American in some way, given context and word choice—no, they’re probably really fucking not. ", "Yeah, at current production they have between 23- 45 years of oil left. \n\nThat's from the 1.7 - 3.3 billion estimates from Wikipedia and the production of 200,000 barrels a day. That's also assuming they don't find more, or oil is even needed in 30 years. ", "Modern Africa is unquestionably more convenient and prosperous than 15th century Europe. You don't know what you are talking about. ", "They don't have all the benefits of technology, medical care, vehicles? They don't have better living standards than before the invasion of english people? ", "A big part of the destruction was disease, not conquest. Remember the plague had wiped out Europe and it recovered later. The Europeans brought those diseases to the America’s where there was no immunity. Huge numbers of natives died before ever seeing a conquistador or missionary because disease spread across the continents so quickly. Native Americans might have fought off the invaders successfully if disease hadn’t killed so many of them. \nThe dominance of Europeans in the world is due in part to the vast American resources that were gifted to them by vicious diseases. ", "You mean descendants from Norwegians...and now US citizens? Then they are not Norwegians any more. ", "All the important revolutionary inventions are invented by Europeans. US wasn't leading in science and technology until the World Wars. ", "Disinterested 3rd party here - given the context of the discussion, your point does not appear at all neutral to a casual observer.", "Don't be ignorant. Ethiopia IS an incredible tourist destination. \n\nAncient culture with incredible buildings and monuments, modern city with convenient airports and hotels, amazing natural beauty- and not that expensive? It's fabulous. \n\nI'm guessing your opinion of Africa is formed mainly from the media and you've never experienced it yourself. \n\nhttp://www.cnn.com/travel/article/ethiopia-africa-travel-next-big-thing/index.html", "“Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?”\n\n", "What were those plains Indians doing by the coast?", "The standard isn't \"Norwegian\".\n\n It is that the people coming from developed countries of Scandinavia are more easily assimilated in the US culture than Arabs or Haitians. ", "Oh how the turntables", "I would think the main flow of money comes from tourism. But when there's not enough to go around from the start, I would think the the natural thing to do, is to make shure you have enough for your self. And if your neighbour is corrupt, why shouldn't you? It might be a cultural thing too. But this is just speculation from my side. \"Confession of an economic hitman\" is a book you should check out. Or look for it on YouTube. The author has a documentary thing about the book there. That might give some insight to why poor nations keeps being poor!", "A well-reasoned retort to a logically sound argument. Was it the Harvard or Yale debate team you were captain of?", "Thanks, I'll check it out.", "But you see, this is bashing trump, so its fine.", "This gives some weight to the US being a leader in science (and medical science): http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php\n\nBut of course it's hard to quantify. It's very hard to deny the US has provided a huge amount of medical technology and theory to the world.", "I'm pretty sure he didn't actually say that and your basing it off sensationalist fake media.", "A nation built by immigrants who committed atrocities against the natives is now trying to close down borders to new immigrants. Irony. ", "The Native Americans should not have let the Europeans land from their pov so is the point that Trump should not let in any immigrants?", "I don't follow, will they somehow bring their living standards to your broken country?\n\nEdit: tbh Prove_Me_Wrong is obviously just another troll shilling for the black metal industry", "That used to happen to me. If you want, here's a protip\n\nClose your left nostril and suck everything up from the right as hard as possible. It tastes really gross\n\nAnd badabing bada boom. You have a gross ass taste in your mouth in less than 30 seconds. Thanks me later.", "but they were shitting in holes. \n\nI am not one to denounce progress. ", "And look how that turned out ", "That's not really irony because, in your example, Americans would know that letting immigrants in would be perilous. If anything, that's a logical chain of thought.\n\n\nIrony would be fleeing your homeland and imposing the social norms that contributed to the conditions that forced you to flee on the first place.", "No, England and the rest of Europe had very shitty living conditions. The Aztecs has running water, nobody in Europe did. Diseases were rampant in Europe because of the squalor that those people lived in; they dumped shit out their windows into the streets. Yes there’s other factors as to why Europe had diseases and the Americas didn’t, but when 90% of your population is wiped out because you have never had to deal with a pandemic before clearly your standard of living is pretty damn high.\n\nIt also depends on your definition of standard of living. If you mean they lived in large cities, had large farms and a decent amount of food, and had a larger population than yes they did have that. I would like to read what you think that the Europeans had, in the field of better standards of living.", "You might be so tired of the race card because you benefit from the racist system. And I don't believe anyone could paint themself worse than Trump without committing a crime.", "Thanks for the blankets.", "Elgin Air Force Base.\n\nhttp://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/eglin-air-force-base-busted-gaming-reddit.html", "actually, the text speaks against letting folks in rather than anything to do with Trump. ", "yeah this attempt backfired. ", "They couldn't stop immigration, and look where it got them.", "Yeah, I'm pretty sure at this point every government has a major social media presence, their tendrils are in everything.", "So what? They where shitting and holes and where fine with it. Progress is a matter of perspective.", "Their population is dwindling, their culture and traditions are disappearing, pretty soon they won't even be anymore. That's called dying, which is like the opposite of doing great.", "People have to exist to benefit from society. The Europeans actively had a hand in them no longer existing.\n\nAnd, even taking your question at face value, no they largely fucking don’t have a better living standard. Many of them live on reservations and never leave them. \n\nBelieve it or not there actually is nuance to this stuff. ", "Yeah. We have to kill all of them, orelse they will take us over. I agree with your message", "Well... if you discount the fact that the people in England had been living in such filth (literally human and animal feces) for so long that they were carrying a ton on lethal diseases that they had, over many generations, grown resistant to. \n\nBut only after the majority of their population was wiped out, more than once, to said diseases.\n", "Wtf are you serious. Most of them are dead and the rest are living on the shitty land we didn’t want. I pretty sure they would have preferred to be left alone.", "Progress is for most of your children not to die within the first year or until your tribe gets starved or killed off by rivals.\n\nHow about fucking antibiotics.", "So technology and education have no influence on your standard of living? \n\nThis means that isolated tribes in the Amazon have the highest standard of living by your rational. ", "If you believe 4th generation kids of turkish immigrants in the EU, no, they're turkish and fuck the european potatoes", "Okay. That’s not what Trump said, though. He said “why are we accepting more people from shithole countries”, and followed that up with “we should have more people from Norway”. So, in fact, he did say the standard was “Norwegian”, or at least “non-shithole”, which it never should be in a merit-based system. \n\nAgain, in this system, a Haitian doctor could get passed over for a Norwegian criminal, because trump himself said he preferred people from not shithole countries more than anything else. \n\nThat thing he said we should do—that’s not merit-based immigration, like Trump says he wants, because “Norwegian” isn’t a merit. Which is unlike how he and his team been saying it should be. Which is hypocrisy. There’s no way around that. That’s the problem. \n\nAlso, nice job literally missing the whole entire point. \n\n“It’s not about where they came from, it’s about the president choosing that one, often irrelevant factor as his whole criteria instead of something like merit-based immigration”\n\n“Well, he only said that because Norwegians are objectively more—“\n\nThere’s no end to that sentence that justifies the president choosing Norwegians overall above Haitians and Africans. Like how his merit-based system shouldn’t be. Which is what he said he’d prefer we as a country do. \n\nEdit: lol downvote. Did I prove you wrong?", "This comic is just a bad attempt at piggybacking off of the recent drama.\n\nEuropean countries, at the time, were amongst the highest developed societies to be found on the planet, so the shithole comment doesn't make sense either.\n\nNot a big fan of Trump but I'm getting bored of the hilariously bad satire that ends up making me cringe due to the obvious lack of research", "Can't everyone be as backwards as 4th generation EU turks...", "Yea they hardly ever think about that.", "OP is a moron literally making the \"racist\" point for them. ", "Thanks you", "B E H O L D ,\n\nT H E E T E R N A L 🤔", "You mean starved off and killed, kinda like we did to them anyway. Also, Antibiotics is an ironic example being that for one they would not exist for another two hundred years and we brought them disease first.", "When no argument is left, just use strawman. ", "you tricked me", "I am pretty sure they prefer having all the benefits of technology rather than go back living in stone age. ", "Who's stopping them from reproducing? Low birth rates are actually a sign of improved living standards. ", "Nah, we just buy a lot of jean jackets and jeeps", "proves the point", "Yes they will. ", "Source?", "By the standard of that time, Europe had best in the world. ", "Did he not just say that the genocide of the native americans was a good thing because it \"improved\" living conditions?", "Are you on psychiatric medication?", "Have you heard of thanksgiving? Lmao.... Natives helped the settlers a ton", ">them no longer existing\n\nThey no longer exist? What planet do you live on?", "That's why we're investing our [$1,000,000,000,000](http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/19/investing/norway-pension-fund-trillion-dollars/index.html) in stocks. We now own 1.3% of all listed companies worldwide. And we're [dropping the oil and gas stocks](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-norway-swf/norways-1-trillion-wealth-fund-proposes-to-drop-oil-gas-stocks-from-index-idUSKBN1DG1TK).\n\nI think we'll manage.", "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some women are swamp donkeys and others are keepers. That doesn’t mean that someone out there doesnt want them a swamp donkey , it’s just not me", "We had outhouses in the US up until the mid 20th century. The brits were shitting in holes when they got here, too", "I mean, no, no they do not. Norway has a population of 5.1 Million and America has 4.7 Million people of Norwegian descent. this is not the same thing as being Norwegian, and nor does it make any of those things your shitty president has said any better. I swear this guy is fucking poisoning your country and you are all blind to his blatant racism it's fuckin disgusting", "Seriously, is it snowing in here? Where'd all these snowflakes come from?", "Can you quote him saying \"Norway is the standard for all immigrants\"? What he said was we should prefer people who are not coming from shitholes.", ">Under the present government, some fundamental freedoms, including freedom of the press, are circumscribed.\n\n>Citizens have little access to media other than the state-owned networks, and most private newspapers struggle to remain open and suffer periodic harassment from the government. At least 18 journalists who had written articles critical of the government were arrested following the 2005 elections on genocide and treason charges. The government uses press laws governing libel to intimidate journalists who are critical of its policies.\n\n>Meles' government was elected in 2000 in Ethiopia's first-ever multiparty elections; however, the results were heavily criticized by international observers and denounced by the opposition as fraudulent. The EPRDF also won the 2005 election returning Meles to power. Although the opposition vote increased in the election, both the opposition and observers from the European Union and elsewhere stated that the vote did not meet international standards for fair and free elections. Ethiopian police are said to have massacred 193 protesters, mostly in the capital Addis Ababa, in the violence following the May 2005 elections in the Ethiopian police massacre.\n\n>The government initiated a crackdown in the provinces as well; in Oromia state the authorities used concerns over insurgency and terrorism to use torture, imprisonment, and other repressive methods to silence critics following the election, particularly people sympathetic to the registered opposition party Oromo National Congress (ONC)\n\n>After the 2015 elections, Ethiopia lost its single remaining opposition MP; there are now no opposition MPs in the Ethiopian parliament.\n\n>Current human rights violations include the killing of 100 peaceful protestors by direct government gunfire in the Oromo and Amhara regions in 2016. The UN has called for UN observers on the ground in Ethiopia to investigate this incident, however the EPRDF-dominated Ethiopian government has refused this call. The protestors are protesting land grabs and lack of basic human rights such as the freedom to elect their representatives. The TPLF-dominated EPRDF won 100% in an election marked by fraud which has resulted in Ethiopian civilians protesting on scale unseen in prior post-election protests.\n\n>According to surveys in 2003 by the National Committee on Traditional Practices in Ethiopia, marriage by abduction accounts for 69% of the nation's marriages, with around 80% in the largest region, Oromiya, and as high as 92% in the Southern Nations, Nationalities, and Peoples' Region. Homosexual acts are illegal in Ethiopia.\n\n>In 2013, the Oakland Institute released a report accusing the Ethiopian government of forcing the relocation of \"hundreds of thousands of indigenous people from their lands\" in the Gambela Region. The report describes the Ethiopian government's \"plans to move over 1.5 million people\" by the end of 2013, in order to allow foreign investors to develop the land for large scale industrial agriculture. According to several reports by the organization, those who refused were the subject of a variety intimidation techniques including physical and sexual abuse, which sometimes led to deaths. A similar 2012 report by Human Rights Watch also describes the Ethiopian government's 2010–2011 villagization program in Gambella, with plans to carry out similar resettlements in other regions. The Ethiopian government has denied the accusations of land grabbing and instead pointed to the positive trajectory of the countries economy as evidence of the development program's benefits.\n\nSource is Wikipedia.\n\nStill, cheap place for tourists to look at old buildings. So swings and roundabouts.", "That's... not true. I'd like to see some stats por favor. ", "Yeah that’s good, I wasn’t aware of the 1.3% figure. \n\nI’m sure you will, I wasn’t critiquing The Norwegian way, I was impressed from what I read.\n\nOil is on the way out potentially so diversifying now is a great idea.", "Dann racist indians", "To be fair, in 1492 everyone was shitting in holes.", "When did he say \"genocide is a good thing\"? Why are you pulling things out of your ass?", "Some needs to write a book what would happen if Christopher Columbus never landed in America.", "If there country's where any good they wouldn't have left them. Think about it your country really needs to be a shit hole for you to leave all of your family and friends and go to a foreign land. I speak from experience.", "IQ?", "It's not about shitting in holes. That's just an euphemism. It's about who had the better living standards in that time. ", "That's not what he said. ", "This is also because many European countries don’t allow immigrants to truly become considered part of them, you have to be ethnically French to be French. 3rd generation Algerians are still Algerians", "There were no disease in land of America before Europeans came? Do you have any source on this? ", "Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize the Native American society was alive and thriving. My mistake.\n\nPlease, on a map, could you show me where their capitol is? Or could you google and find their society’s constitution? Tell me, who leads their society? Do they have a big tribe leader, who lays down independent legislation from the US? Or, like, an oligopoly, where numerous small tribe leaders coalesce and form a unified Native American social order?\n\nOr do they have no capitol, no constitution, no independent leader besides the president (who, by the way, many Native Americans don’t vote on), and no legislation? \n\nDo they even live around each other? Worship the same gods? Believe the same myths? Do they even have a currency? Can you answer these questions without googling?\n\nIt’s not society. Reservations are fucking zoos, and the only reason people stay on the reservation is because it’s become nearly impossible for them to leave and naturalize. Which, yes, is our fault. ", "If you are logical and have done more than 0 research, I advise you not to argue against Trump on Reddit. I tried very reasonable to do that last week and my inbox met with dozens of flaming, poop-filled paper bags left on my virtual doorstep. It's a sad time for sanity.", " This comparison makes no sense on any level. Why is it so highly upvoted?", "The thing is, both behaviors make sense for their environment. If you're knocking about in the wilderness, then blasting that snot off into the bushes is a good was to get rid of it, but if you're knocking about in town then blasting snot on the floor is a terrible way to get rid of it cos someone's going to be stepping in it. They were both set in their ways and unable to consider it from the others perspective. ", "Ya Europe was a shithole compared to Native Americans? Ok buddy.", ">This is also because many European countries don’t allow immigrants to truly become considered part of them\n\nWrong, european countries even had to introduce laws that require immigrants to learn the language before being considered for full citizenship because many simply refused", "Right. People not coming from shitholes, such as those who come from Norway instead. That’s the point—“Norwegian” is not a merit. It’s a nationality, and therefore is not a valid criteria to judge someone on, like Trump is apparently totally cool doing. It’s totally arbitrary, and there’s no way to improve in the president’s eyes if you’re born in a shithole. \n\n“Preferring people not coming from a shithole” does not equal “merit-based immigration”. How can I make this clearer for you? \n\nAnd, yeah, I outlined pretty clearly him saying “Norway good, Haiti bad” in my last comment. ", "No, the racists like you tried to make that case.\nMost thinking people understood his point. You need to quit harping on racism racism....\nIt is old tired and used up. Are there racists, yes, are most people racists, no. Find another \nargument or platform to hype, this one is done. ", "Of course it's pretty much just the media, such as those donation commercials. I had nothing else to go on.\n\nThe only place I knew that was at least halfway decent to visit was South Africa. Everywhere else was a no go. A good portion of which was covered in hot desert. So that's a full Nope on it's own.", "Its more about what the liberals percieved in this picture, which they thought was trump bashing.", "They are migrants. ", "There are plains in India?", "I'm thinking no opportunity and govt corruption. ", "Yup. Without going into the comment history from the OP, I can't tell if they are for or against Trump. If they are for him, cool. If not? They're an idiot just looking for internet points and saw words that Trump supposedly said and thought they should post it.\n\nThe picture really isn't left open to interpretation. The message being conveyed is very obvious. Yes it speaks against letting people in, but it's in support of Trump as well. Otherwise it wouldn't say \"shithole countries\". I'm shocked it's getting so much attention on this site considering....................", "But it's not just this one. It's a recurring theme among people who really believe they are making some biting social comment on the state of immigration, (generally in favor of it). I started collecting all the similar themes I started seeing around thanksgiving a couple of years ago, and there are dozens of permutations.", "This is also because many immigrants prefer the company of their own people.", "How many people are going to make this same fucking joke..?\n\nI think we all get it at this point.", "> Very few Norwegians wants to move to USA\n\nbut a lot of people from the poorer countries want to move to the USA but cannot. In a very real sense, these shithole countries are sending their best, which is not what we would get from most developed countries.\n\nsending their best because they can afford the time and effort to apply for visas", "Right on, I also noticed a similar trend on reddit. Every couple of days a particular topic or person seems to come up with a lot of highly upvoted posts about the topic spread across several subs.\n\nI'm not ready to call reddit a full-on propaganda machine but I have an uneasy feeling. Something's up.", "If I wanted pictures like this I would've gone to r/propaganda this sub has really lost its way somewhere", "Didn’t you see what those people with better living standards did to the natives? Do you want that to happen again?", "If you think about it, the difference between African and American history is that in America Europians were able to suppress the native population and in Africa they weren't. We could've had a bunch of bare ass natives running around with machetes instead of the whole us of a", "Seemed pretty neutral to me, albeit poorly timed. Even if right, the reaction felt a bit excessive.", "I'm glad you asked. Haiti became a free country a bit over two hundred years ago. Shortly after that happened France forced them to pay compensation for the loss of slaves and land. That compensation equalled about $21 billion in today's dollars. That is more than twice what Haiti's current GDP is.\n\nIn addition, by the time they were freed, the French had stripped many of the forests of Haiti. They wrecked much of the soil. Because of all the damage done, there are parts of Haiti to this day where the soil has eroded away down to the bedrock.\n\nAmerica has not really helped the situation. We have provided a substantial amount of assistance with their debt. However, in the nineties America agreed to a trade treaty with Haiti that made American rice actually cheaper than locally grown. You might think that is a good then no for a country that is largely starving. It was not. It hurt Haitian farmers as well as making the citizens of Haiti reliant on a commodity that could increase in price at any moment, and often has. \n\nWhen the price of rice in Haiti goes up, most people can afford to eat nothing. So they eat nothing. Rice alone accounts for almost a quarter of their entire diet.\n\nMany \"shithole\" countries have a similar story to tell. Before you look down on them for being impoverished and backwards, remember that industrialized countries largely made them that way.", "https://www.amazon.com/1491-Revelations-Americas-Before-Columbus/dp/1400032059\n\nYou're correct on all counts, but this is r/pics man. You'd have better luck talking sense in Youtube comments.", "Haiti isn't an island. Hispaniola is an island with the two countries of Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Haiti is doing rather badly, but the Dominican Republic is doing okay. ", "Technology has a part in standard of living but the Europeans didn’t have that many more advances over the Americans. But I’ll agree that they had better tech and that may have helped a bit. \n\nEducation, only a small portion of Europeans had an education (im talking about the time from when the Spanish first reached the New World to when England had started aggressively colonizing). And those with the education weren’t in places that would have increased their standard of living. Many Native Americans refused to deal with Europeans until they bathed, and Europeans didn’t bath because there water was so polluted that they got sick constantly from it. Thus they stayed away bathing in it.\n\nTL:DR\nYes Europeans had better tech, but not in a water that offsets their other issues. \n\nAs for better education, it wasn’t really in an area that would people improve their lives, especially since the nobility were really the only ones getting an education.", "It looks to me like you are mentally ill.\n\nI don't waste my time with the delusional. I hope you get the help you need. Or not, I actually don't care.", "At what point did I say I looked down on them?\nI've been a missionary to Haiti and they are some of the best people I have ever met.", "Out of curiosity, what are the taxes like there?", "Yes, I meant to say country. I've been there.", "It's just confusing, really", "You cannot get more than 40-45% of the crude reservoir with conventional drilling. You can get more with shale but I don't know if you can do that easily in the ocean.", "To give you a better idea of the size of that debt, it was not fully paid off until 1947. Ten years later Duvalier came to power and took on a lot more debt so that he could loot the country. The original debt would be equivalent to the US borrowing $48 TRILLION.", "It depends on what time frame we are discussing. If it’s 1492 then no they didn’t. The renaissance (probably the time period that kicked off technological advancement) had just started in Italy, not Spain. If it’s in the later 17th century then yes the Europeans started to get an excellent standard of living.\n\nAgain I’ll reiterate, Europe didn’t not have running water for its cities, the Aztecs did. At the very least the two groups were on par with each other.", "I kind of agree with your statement but it's spelt blatant. ", ">I didn't realize native American society was alive and thriving\n\nThey are very much alive and thriving. They live a better life than they ever did before. \n\n>could you google and find their society’s constitution? Tell me, who leads their society? Do they have a big tribe leader, who lays down independent legislation from the US? Do they even live around each other? Worship the same gods? Believe the same myths? Do they even have a currency? \n\nWhat all of this has to do with living standard? Do these things improve their life? Is a tribal society better than a constitutional democracy? They have every right equally granted to them in the constitution. \n\nHow it's impossible for them to get out of reservations? They even have special privileges on eduation. Fake people claiming to be native american get all the privilages, why can't they do it? It's a matter of their will. \n", "I mean the best case scenario would be to have the technology without being, you know, killed en masse", "Hmm... BUT that system while horrible did allow for the growth economic specialization where innovation could improve standards. \n\nNot all education is classroom based. Wasn’t this also the time of booming arts and trade that brought about different ideas? That time period called the renaissance? ", "Very high. ", "My education, it is pretty common knowledge.\n\nIf you really* need help googling, try\n\nBubonic Plague\n\nSewage in european cities dark ages\n\nAnimal disease vectors european history\n\nNative americans european settlers diseases\n\nLondon river disease 1600-1700s\n\nPretty much anything related to living in population dense areas, amongst livestock and rats, while dumping sewage into the streets, not bathing, and drinking/using highly contaminated water downstream from factories, shit, and corpses, without even boiling first.", "The Indians had running water in 3000 bc. That doesn't mean they were living a better life. ", "People seem to think of Africa as just filled with clay houses lived in by indigenous people with lip-plates and AKs, just sitting around begging for western hand-outs.", "A lot of colonists went native. Not much in the other direction", "That figure is recoverable though, wouldn’t that mean without special measure?", "Hmm that looks like an interesting book, I’ll have to read it some time. And just because people are ignorant in there ways doesn’t mean I should just ignore them. ", "Making an inaccurate political cartoon with a confusing message.", "TIL, to Norwegians, the US is a shithole. /s", "Where did those \"facts\" come from?", "This actually supports immigration bans. If the natives had kept the Europeans out, they wouldn't have lost their land. ", "World has never been a best case scenario. It's almost always a worst case scenario to most people. ", "but in reality the text to the picture is saying if we let in undesirables it could be a bad thing, so we should enforce our immigration laws. ", "but its anti Trump and liberals are so easily amused so it stands. ", "They did what a colonalists do. Kill and steal land. Today's world isn't colonialistic, which is why I am sure it won't happen again. ", "We still consider them Norwegians even if they're no longer Norwegian citizens and even if we'd also say they're Americans. In the US you retain your old nationality a lot longer than in most European nations, where you're usually either seen as either the local nationality or your old one.", "Because you're on circlejerk reddit. This place is ridiculously stupid.", "I would prefer that people immigrate to Norway.", "What are we talking about if not the invasion and “progress” forced upon the native american population in which many were slaughtered?", "So that their system can collapse?", "So r/pics is really r/anti-trumppics now ", "How do you make those statements without being embarrassed? Surely you do not truly believe an opinion not in line with your own world view is a sign of mental illness...", "DAE TRuMp iS A sh1TH0lE Pr3Sid3nT?!?1? ", "What we're takling about is which immigrants should we prefer. Those from developed countries or those from shihole countries. \n\n", "Where did they say there were no diseases before europeans came?", "You have yet to give me any evidence to the contrary, by all means prove me wrong...", "> They are very much alive and thriving. They live a better life than they ever did before. \n\nOkay, you’re incorrect. Their society, culture, way of life etc. is nigh upon destroyed in modern America, and to claim otherwise is laughable. They comprise less than one percent of our population and cannot naturalize in any meaningful way. They are a people without a land, outside of the places our government has given them. \n\n> What all of this has to do with living standard? Do these things improve their life? Is a tribal society better than a constitutional democracy? They have every right equally granted to them in the constitution. \n\nThey have to do with having a society (the original question), which they don’t, torpedoing their living standard. Yes, having an independent government with their needs first and having a centralized currency and having a fucking constitution with laws improves their life! But the thing is that they have none of these things! When was the last time you even saw a Native American person, if their society is so robust and rich? \n\nYour second and third points are begging the question. No, a collective tribe system is not better than constitutional democracy, but they don’t have either. They have small camps under US law where they can try to preserve their way of life, until they die out, unnaturalized.\n\n> How it's impossible for them to get out of reservations? They even have special privileges on eduation. Fake people claiming to be native american get all the privilages, why can't they do it? It's a matter of their will. \n\nOh shit I’m sorry I didn’t realize you were Native American and knew all about the experience and emotions involved with leaving the reservation. Surely you, having actually gone through the bureaucracy, paperwork, education, job-searching, and the soul-sucking fear and depression of a Native American, are an authority on it. \n\n\n\n", "They're not sending their best. That's why Europe has a massive problem assimilating these people from middle east. They bring their culture with them. ", "Do they want immigrants from this shithole country?", "You can't just say that and except it to be true for everyone, i'm from Finland which is fairly close to Norway in a number of way when it comes to living quality in general and i wouldn't mind moving to USA if it were easier. My excepted wage would pretty much double and yes the amount of money i have to pay to healthcare or whatever would also increase but the increase in wage would make up for it amply.", "Because there's a lot of people who hate trump without putting any thought into why.", "That's why we all should emigrate to Norway.", "Living standard doesn't mean you don't have diseases, it means people live a better life in most aspects. \n\n", "Are you trying to imply that people who live in Norway are less likely to be: \n\n* Educated \n* Skilled \n* Healthy \n* Able to speak English well \n* Able to easily assimilate into American culture\n\n... than people from Africa or Haiti? \n\nThat is what Trump was saying. He was making a dumb generalization, but a generalization based on fact.", "Ah, well I think you may have wandered into the wrong thread. This thread started off by saying the europeans invasion and was a good thing because it brought progress to the native american population. A comment pointed out that progress came with genocide, which seemed to annoy you. Understandable if you mistakenly though this was a claim that trump called for genocide against people from shithole countries or something. Wrong thread!", "I'm afraid it seems that your political fervor has managed to cloud your critical thinking abilities.", "Now do one with no one in the foreground and humans crossing the land bridge from Eurasia - given no human is indigenous to North or South America.", "High. Europe is only good for living in if you're ok with giving most of your money to government and letting them take care of you. Having goals to work hard and better yourself is looked down on in most European countries.", "\"and we brought them disease first\"\n\nImplying that before European colonisation there were no diseases in america.", "Yeah the parts industrialized, invested and maintained by Europeans or Chinese.", ">you are all blind to his blatant racism\n\n Have you ever been to this site called Reddit? Do you follow world news? Maybe one or two of us are slightly hesitant in our support for the President? There may have been a criticism voiced on occasion as well.\n\nWhy don't you take your fuckin disgusting uninformed stereotyping and shove it up your ass. Who the hell is equating anything about Trump with Norwegian descent??? Only you. Also, This is the United States. We allow people to maintain their cultural identity after immigrating. It is really pretentious for you to declare who can call themselves Norwegian. ", "I have no idea how you read all that and didn't understand that the diseases were a direct result of abyssmal living conditions. \n\nI will just assume you are not reading, and just posting, so I will stop trying to help you.", "No one forces them to live on reservations.", ">actually gone through the bureaucracy, paperwork, education, job-searching, and the soul-sucking fear and depressing\n\nThis how adult life is. Welcome to real world. No gets free stuff without work. ", "Well, that's what i get for being such a vigorous grammar Nazi back in the day i guess haha! cheers bro, edited now", "http://i.imgur.com/AAVhAry.jpg", "All this comic does is prove Trump right.", "The quote doesn't even exist because it's all hearsay. Literally he said she said.", "Source for your last statement? ", "This source is only for EU countries but I assume what we see for Sweden is broadly similar for what we see for Norway: \nhttp://bruegel.org/2015/09/eu-immigration-to-the-us-where-is-it-coming-from-and-is-brain-drain-real/\n\nEssentially the highly educated or elite come to the US because the US is the best place to be highly educated or elite; the more average people stay because it's better to be average back home. I definitely see this first hand, in fact my Norwegian friend with a PhD from an elite US institution lives here in the US and his pretty average brother just came to visit from Norway.\n\nThe money quote:\n\n>In summary, the emigration of EU citizens to the US is not characterized by overcrowded flights and waiting times. It is, rather, a small and steady flow. Nevertheless, this small flow possesses exceptional skill and education levels. Behind the deceivingly low number bers is a huge potential for wealth creation that is permanently migrating to the US.", "You're taking him way too literally. Of course we wouldn't take criminals from Norway. \n\nWe would take good immigrants, overwhelmingly from good countries (such as Norway). That doesn't mean a top-tier haitian wouldn't be able to get in. But on average our immigrants would come from good countries because that's where the vast majority of good potential immigrants reside.", "Yeah... Unfortunately it isn't 1700 anymore ", "Except the guys coming back then had better technology", "But that isn’t what he said. He didn’t lay down why Norwegians were better than Haitians, he said “no more shitholers, I want more Norwegians”. \n\nAnd no, there’s no reason to assume a random person from Haiti would outperform a random person from Norway—THAT’S THE POINT. It should be based on merit, not place of origin, but Trump made it clear he would absolutely choose a Norwegian over a Haitian with just that information. ", "It also simply states that europeans brought disease, which does not mean there were none to begin with. They did bring disease, especially disease which had never been encountered before so would have been especially devestating to the locals’ immune system.\n\nThough it seems likely to me that there was far less exposure to any that did exist before their arrival, as europeans lived in squalor and close quarters which facilitated the breeding and spreading of disease.", "The opposite is true. See here: http://bruegel.org/2015/09/eu-immigration-to-the-us-where-is-it-coming-from-and-is-brain-drain-real/\n\n>In summary, the emigration of EU citizens to the US is not characterized by overcrowded flights and waiting times. It is, rather, a small and steady flow. Nevertheless, this small flow possesses exceptional skill and education levels. Behind the deceivingly low numbers is a huge potential for wealth creation that is permanently migrating to the US.\n\nThe intuition is, being elite in the US is better than being elite in other developed countries; being average in many other developed countries is on par or better than being average in the US. Being anything in the US is better than being anything in a shithole country. So the US gets elites from developed countries and everyone from shithole countries.", "Average income tax is around 30%, but increases with higher income. (Source: https://www.smartepenger.no/skatt/653-skatteprosenter-pa-lonnsinntekt)\n\nVAT is 25% on most goods.\n\nThere are quite a few additional charges as well, most notably on cars and petrol.", "Damn, look at the guns on that dude", "No, you goose. I’m talking about going to adult education classes to get a GED, or finding work despite not having much of an idea how a grill or cash register works. Don’t conflate someone not having the basic knowledge to survive outside the reservation to just ho-hum being too lazy to get a job. \n\nGimme a break lol. ", "So you are one of the few. But still, you are not Norwegian. ", ">Can we analyse the thought process of people who make native American analogies in support of modern mass migration?\n\nI'd have thought that it's poking fun at the hypocrisy of complaining about immigrants destroying the country when you are a literally an immigrant who committed genocide to secure a nice place to live. ", "They aren't sending their best, that's the point. \n\nMexico's entire economic strategy right now to deal with their high birth rates is to just offload the population onto their Northern neighbour, and whilst they won't openly promote it, they aren't stopping it either. This is why the idea of a hard barrier frightens the elites in Mexican government - if Mexico was sending its best, they'd be experiencing brain drain. Most other low wealth countries have the exact same mindset.\n\nAs for \"the best\", the best of most respective nations are not immigrating to the West, they are being hired by multi-national corporations and then will be moved around on the behest of their employers.\n\nThe vast majority of migration is low skilled workers looking for low wage work, and as most western countries transition to automated societies which wipe out low wage work, this sort of immigration policy will just have to stop. It will stop, or the nations that are doing it will self-destruct and be plunged into the very same third world conditions they invited their new citizens from.", "Exactly.\n\nhttps://goo.gl/images/VuJWaH", "He hasn't stated an opinion, open your eyes and read the comment.\n\nHe has made an absurd, out of place question.\n\nDo you enjoy raping children? Is that what you like?\n\nHow do you like that? And why would you defend anyone who does it?", "Fine. Assuming he did say these things, because I never considered the Democratic senator present to be a very imaginative thinker/someone to stake their job on something so easily proven false, this is the case. ", "And firewater and mobile homes. ", "No, with technology you can increase the recoverable yield with a few percent but conventional exploitation is energy intensive and requires you to pump down a liquid like water into the well in order to prevent the reservoir from collapsing, so for every barrel you pump out you need to pump another barrel in and thereby reducing the crude quality for each barrel you recover.\n\nThe total amount in the reserves never include quality btw. The peak oil concept is about capacity of a given quality of crude extracted via conventional means and to the contrary to popular belief, the hubbert curve has been quite accurate. We are essentially living past the peak, what has extended it is non-conventional techniques like fracking, tar sands and also a reduced energy demand by cheap renewables.", "Case in point: Algerians in France. Algerians speak French. They were a French colony. ", "Who says this is in support of migrations? This comic is in support of what Trump said. The REAL hilarious part, is all of the liberals that have upvoted this without even realizing what they’re doing (to your point) - which is more of what the massive problem in this country is all about. Try to get someone to explain why they’re really pissed off and in many cases they actually have no idea.", "Please stop ignoring national averages, it's kinda embarrassing.\n\nAlmost every nation will judge people based on their origin country and go from there. If you are a young unemployed man from Somalia you are going to be interviewed more stringently than a 30 year old female accountant from Iceland.", "North American Natives comment on incoming African slaves", "Maybe i am one of the few, maybe i am not, it's not uncommon for people to complain about high taxes, that much you would admit atleast would you not?\n\nAnd so what if i'm not Norwegian? Would you really say that the cultural and whatever difference between a Norwegian person and Finnish person is all that high?", "TIL Norwegian is a race, and not a nationality. ", ">Yes. And reparations only to the govt., not the citizens who deserve it.\n\nNo matter how resources are distributed, the government can take it. So what are other options? Regime change? Allow every citizen of every third world country to immigrate to the US? \n\n", "“In the US you retain your old nationality a lot longer than most EU countries “. \n\n\nPretty sure you pulled that right out of your ass. If I recall correctly you need to revoke all other citizenship when becoming a US citizen and take an oath that you no longer have any moral, religious or political affiliation to said country .\n\nEdit: \n“What's more, the oath of allegiance that immigrants must take in order to become naturalized citizens declares that the immigrant will: renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen.”", "And England still does. UK citizen here who was thinking of moving to the US. Fuck that, good luck with your idiocratic corrupt country (which is now lead by a racist mentally unstable rapist). ", "That’s obviously hyperbole to the end of illustrating my point. But okay. Who defines countries as good or bad? Why wouldn’t we just see who fits a meritorious criteria, not factoring in their country of origin at all? \n\nIt’s not the idea that many “good” immigrants come from non-shithole countries that’s the problem. It’s that trump can’t differentiate between someone being a good immigrant and someone being from a good country. \n\nIt’d be one thing to say “why all the Haitians? Why not more doctors?” and imply Haitians couldn’t become doctors—he implied their credentials didn’t natter AT ALL to him, as long as they aren’t born in a shithole. ", "Take that, Donald Trump! How about some anti-white comedy to convince you that you're wrong!", "Which percentage of total immigrants do Algerians net? 3 %?\n\nFine, what about the other 97%?", "If anything what happened to the native Americans confirms that for the long term security of your country you need to control your borders and keep people out. ", "All Nordic countries are very similar economically ", "If I consider myself a goose it doesn't make it true. Those people are not Norwegian in any meaningful way. Plain and simple ", "Hol' up. How tf are they speaking English", "> It will stop, or the nations that are doing it will self-destruct and be plunged into the very same third world conditions they invited their new citizens from.\n\nPretty sure that’s the goal of all this", "okay, perhaps i was a little too broad with the term \"all\" when i mean majority. that i will conceed, and apologise to any american who does not eat up all of the bullshit their president spews out of his arsehole.\n\n>Who the hell is equating anything about Trump with Norwegian descent???\n\nfirstly, Trump is, by saying that they he prefers Norwegian immigrants over these ones from \"shithole\" countries lol.Secondly, u/chubulent is, by saying \"More Norwegians live in the US than in Norway. Kinda interesting.\" Third, i don't get how you can say i'm the one with \"fuckin disgusting uninformed stereotyping\" when you are literally defending a man who has called these countries shitholes and said their immigrants are shit immigrants as well? especially when those immagrants actually preform better within the American economy than the ones from more respectable countries like Norway? It makes me laugh too, because more people move to Norway from America rather than the other way around.\n\n>Also, This is the United States. We allow people to maintain their cultural identity after immigrating\n\nhahahahahahahaha, this. THIS. This is the best thing you have written. you allow them to hold onto their cultural identity??? the ONLY reason that is even a thing in your country is so that the rich white people can still be in a better class than any immmigrant or person of ethnicity could ever dream. i know you're going to argue this point probably the heaviest, and so have to say that if you would like to say that is not the reason, fine. but you cannot deny your country has a problem with Racists, nor can you deny that your average White American is generally in a better class than any african american or hispanic american. \n\n>It is really pretentious for you to declare who can call themselves Norwegian. \n\nactually it is not. I am talking about people who are a couple of generations in. not new immigrants at all. once your family have been living in a country for a few generations, that is what the nationality would shift to. especially if say, they own an american passport!! for instance, my whole family are Irish all the way through, i am the first to be born in England, yet i am English, with Irish descent, just as these \"norwegians\" are actually Americans, with Norwegian descent.", "Okay, but you see how the qualifiers of “young, unemployed” and “30 year old female accountant” are way way important to have in there, to qualify the candidates at all beyond their birthplace?\n\nTrump doesn’t believe they’re necessary. He’d see Somalia and Iceland and immediately choose Iceland. That’s the issue. ", "Any sources on that?", "You're right, we must stop these invasive foreigners before they kill us and take over our nation.", "No one helps them leave and acclimate, either. So, yeah, they are forced to, because if they leave they’re thrust into a world they know nothing about with no help or context. \n\nAlso, you didn’t respond to any of my dozen other points. ", "There's definitely propaganda injected here, but I don't think that's the main cause of the atmosphere here. It's the organic censorship that's the main problem. Visibility of posts and comments are affected by how much people upvote them, so it's inherently an echo chamber. Compare that to some other forums where visibility is simply determined by the newest post or comment, and you'll see a much wider diversity of thought. You don't really need to inject much propaganda into a place like Reddit, they'll do it to themselves.", "Is this what I said? We don't support our own poor citizens here well, and we certainly dont need more poor. I do have empathy for their plight, tho, having missionaried there.", "I sometimes can not believe what dumb reasons people imagine to justify killing an entire human race. Improving their living quality...what a fucked up argument is that? \n\nWe stole everything they had and build a Civilisation on their childrens dead bodys. After we killed 99% of their people, we took over the land and throwing the leftovers of them in countryparts we dont want. \n\nIts funny that you ask: \"Who stopped them from reproducing?\". Do you think there is a relation between killing 99% of their people and low birth rates? :D\n\nYour arguments are very very similar to arguments of people that denied the holocaust. \n\nBut i can not judge you for being fucked up in the head. Your role models (family, friends, Trump) are fucked up in their head. So as their result you took over the brainfuck. I just pity you. Its a shame that simple thieves like us developed such a poor mindstate.", "Idiotic assumptions to fit your shallow world view.\n\nI am not literally defending Trump. I hate Trump. I desperately hope Trump is removed from office. I generally prefer northern European flavor of political ideology.\n\nYour perception of the US is entirely based on an internet circle jerk. ", "vigorous", "> “no more shitholers, I want more Norwegians”\n\nHe literally did not say that. But I guess facts don't matter right?\n\n>And no, there’s no reason to assume a random person from Haiti would outperform a random person from Norway\n\nSo I guess all forms of statistics simply don't work because you can't use them to make accurate generalizations about a population based on a sample?\n\nActually no. That's not correct. We wouldn't use statistics if they we're able to provide accurate information.\n\nObviously there are well educated, skilled, healthy, English-speaking people in Haiti or shithole countries in Africa, but they are less the norm than educated countries like Norway. Which is the entire point you seem to be missing.", "ITT: shitty analogy falling on its face on every possible level", "As my dad once told me, \"I am for aggressive immigration control, only its a couple hundred years too late.\"", "Because brown people says shit about white people = instantly awesome and so virtuous !\n\nWhat a bunch of morons :D ", "So we should do what the natives should have done? Keep em out?", "You're quite right, but plague bearing THEN conquering immigrants isn't a much better setting to couch the message in.", "Reaction was excessive, agreed there. The statement in itself was neutral as a stand-alone, but given Trump’s recent statements it seemed specifically pro-trump. \n\nIt’s a shame that this is where we are, at such a polarized state that the slightest hint of leaning one way or the other gets people in an uproar. No idea how we get back to a fact-based world from where we are now.", "It's the standard fiction \"Translation Convention\"; the primary language of the characters (and any other conversations they understand) is translated into the primary language of the work (with indications for understood non-primary languages). This occurs in basically all fiction, as it's not interesting to see characters converse without understanding them.", "And changed, and changed...\n\n'Bring me your poor huddled masses' followed by isolationism is a repeating cycle.", "Nah mate, those three ships will most likely be Columbus' expedition.", "This doesn’t say what you think it says. ", "Thank you. I thought I was the only one who whenever I saw pro-immigration posters using native americans arguing against letting people in is a bad idea..\n\nWell, for the natives it was\n\nAnd I know* that what they actually are trying to say is \"all you white people who are against immigration have forgotten that you were immigrants as well at one point\"\n\nIts just that using native americans saying it sends really mixed messages..", "I think what he's saying is cultural background (at least here is Canada) is something people tend to use to identify themselves since Canada is made up of a lot of different cultural backgrounds. A lot of people get asked \"What's your background?\" and rather than say \"Oh I'm Canadian\" you usually get \"Oh my families Polish\" (or English, Irish, Greek, etc.) Meaning they themselves might have been born in Canada but their family has a Polish background which means they might identify as partially Polish themselves. ", "This is fucking moronic, or really racist... probably both.", "Not only that but the mods are willing to ignore their own rules for this kind of post.", "I mean, they're not really assumptions, these are things that have been in the news, and things he has been quoted saying. \n\nplease explain how my very perception on the US is from an internet circle jerk? like seriously, could you ellaborate and disprove anything i have listed above? can you disprove that Trump's family have historically been a part of the KKK? Can you think of anything to say about police officers who have shot and killed minorities because they are just that, a minority? the evidence in videos, quotes from people in power from the US, and god knows, the comments on this very website from people who have first hand been a victim of racial profiling are quite damming from where i sit.", "I mean, fuck dude!", "it seems the consensus here is that this is a bad cartoon because “look at what unregulated immigration did to the natives” but i think the point was to show the hypocrisy of wanting to kick people out and ban people from coming in to the nation built and supported by immigrants.", "If those people never came from the shithole countries you’d still be hunting deer with spears. ", "Norweigan-Americans earn $67,403 per year, far more than Norwegians. \n\nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income", "Yeah I know I was just messin....", "Um, Thanks? /r/ShittyLifeProTips lol.", "i'm sure trump was referring to the abundance of crime, corruption, order, disease, and lack of infrastructure. this is not the same situation at all. this is an oppressive and more technologically advanced force imposing rule over a whole continent. ", "TBH I don't think this is trying to send much of a message at all. Seems like it's mostly intended to be funny. ", "The military is posting anti-Trump propaganda?\n\n...\n\nLol ok. ", "Surely this will be the end of le drumpf!", "Now that’s funny", "So the natives had a point. Got it. ", "More like r/trump ", "Which makes me wonder who actually upvotes these things. They aren't funny, this one doesn't even make sense, yet they still have thousands of upvotes. It's curious.", "Didnt expect to see a pro-trump picture on the front page today", "Op shot himself in the foot with this lne", "not what I wrote but if that floats your boat.\n\n\nlol.", "Amen to that. Everyone could do with a deep breath and a step back from the witch-hunt right now.", "Not for the first time. ", "Its that in this case the immigrants made things worse for the native population, so it would be the exact same today, therefore trump is right. ", "The Europeans killed 90% of all native Americans through disease and to a lesser extent, war. In hindsight, that seems like a great reason not to let them in. ", "People complain about high taxes everywhere.", "I think you miss judge medical costs. I'm too lazy too find it right now, but someone on reddit needed a surgery in USA, but found it would be cheaper to move to Australia (I believe), live there for five years and become a declared citizen of Australia and get the free operation; rather than to pay for the treatment in the US. Or the other recent story where someone was turned away from the hospital (while the dude was bleeding from his dick) because he couldn't pay the $35 cover fee. Turned away from a hospital over $35... While bleeding... Ah, American healthcare", ">Shithole\n\n“You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means” - Inigo Montoya\n\n", "Yeah look how it turned out for them. ", "Dane here. Not too long ago I saw an article about a Dane who'd moved to the US and had a very good career in Silicon Valley. He explained that when you had kids and had to start paying for their school, save up for retirement, pay health care etc etc, it was pretty much the same financially as being in Denmark.\n\nPeople who think that moving to the US and receiving a higher pay there, often seem to ignore what these things cost over there, and how much you therefor save on that account as a Scandinavian.\n\nRemember: your kids get to become doctors, lawyers or engineers for free. \n\nNotice all those stories about young USAians with enormous school debts??", "Well, at least you learned something today.", "Not interesting? Are you telling me that during the Star Wars Christmas Special you DIDN'T like the extended sequences of wookies roaring back and forth at each other with no subtitles? ", "Countries that are sailing across the ocean are shit holes, but hunter gather groups aren't. Yep that makes sense. ", "Because you oversimplify and only concentrate on the extreme.\n\nDoes the US have a problem with racism? Sure, humanity has a problem with racism and bigotry. We work really hard at fixing this, but it takes generations to truly address. Is there no bigotry in your country? Has your community managed to irradicate racism?\n if so, please tell us how you did it. \n\nDo our police shoot minorities without reasonable justification? It happens. There are 1 million+ police in the US. That is 20% of the entire population of Norway. That is almost the entire population of Northern Ireland. That is a huge number of people to try to keep from having assholes and bigots. It is a serious problem, and it needs to be addressed immediately, but lets not exaggerate 10-20 controversial shootings a year into a description of America.\n\nI have racists in my family tree. Everyone I know has racist ancestors. Of all the criticisms that can be legitimately leveled at Trump, how is his family history relevant? Do we want to make this a thing? Do we really want to judge people by what their father, grandfather, and/or great grandfathers have done? That is some real Old Testament thinking.\n\nYou see comments on Reddit about racial profiling, and base your perception on that. Do you not ever read the happy comments talking about cultures coming together here? Do you never see the success stories about minorities? Do you not see the progress that the majority of first world countries have accomplished in race relations in even the last 20 years? Not just race, the past decade has seen an explosion of acceptance in the LGBT community. In my extremely conservative area, we have went from one rather skeezy gay bar in the metro area, to 15+ \"alt-life\" bars and clubs in 10 years. Rednecks hold the door open at restaurants for lesbian couples without even staring now. Even here, you couldn't make an insulting comment in public to a minority or alternative lifestyle person without risking an ass kicking from a random passerby for rudeness, even though that random passerby has likely voted Republican their entire life and goes to church twice a week. Racism and Bigotry is being driven deeper into rural areas every year. Generational enlightenment will stomp it out completely eventually. If any of you smug assholes that love to bash on the US have managed to get rid of it faster in your own communities, We are all ears. \n\nI refuse to talk shit about European countries. I have never lived in one, and don't trust my ability to get an accurate picture through news reports and conversation on the internet. I will go so far as to assume they struggle with the same forces of nationalism, populism, xenophobia, and isolationism as we do.", "End all immigration.", "Well that's odd, I thought we were talking about the North Americans who lived in modern day America, not literally people one continent over. You're doing the same thing as defending ancient Sub-Saharan Africa's achievements by talking about Rome as if they're the same people because they're on a connected land mass. It is aggressively ignorant. ", "thats what it is, but it has the scourge of religion as well", "Because Liberal Anti-Trump circle jerkers are not the sharpest tools in the shed.", "imagine the australian aboriginals saying this XD", "....he says in a comment on Reddit.", "I would prefer to help people who need help.", "If advanced tech is the definitive factor for whether or not a civilization should conquer another, if aliens come here for real, we are absolutely screwed.", "Maybe a little TB enrichment as well. ", "It's an older meme sir, but it checks out.", "That is not an acceptable criterion.", "Yep, you can participate and like something more while also thinking it is stupid and can be improved.", "What'd be the point, seeing as how the land was empty?", "Americans. ", "What was that link? Half page ad.... can we get some imgur here", "What are your suggestions for improving it? My guess is that calling it stupid will fall short.", "I didn't say it was a definitive factor just one of the many huge differences in this example and why it makes little sense", "Right! because the 44 million Americans with no access to healthcare would get coverage if more Norwegians emigrated there...?", "You might be a citizen of the United States but you are only pretending to be an American. ", "It's so much easier though!", "I think that's the point. Norwegians aren't flooding the border looking for a better life at any cost. However, if an occasional job relevant to their field, or a marriage or a study opportunity opens up they may take it.\n\n", "Rule with a tyrannical fist, me being the sole decider on things. Child labor...death camps...you know, stuff like that. Making reddit awesome one improvement at a time.", "Does she speak Italian?", "Most of those countries back then were pretty nice actually ", "It's from the perspective that we were originally the unwelcome people that came from \"shitholes\" and now we're saying that this is our land and we don't welcome people that come from \"shitholes\".\n\nI don't think it's meant to be a super deep gif where you think about anything else. That was just the main idea. ", "I hate native analogies to any immigration argument. Native Americans weren't the victims of poor immigration policy, they got conquered by foreign invaders. They aren't entitled to any of the land they currently occupy, except for that which their conquerors deem sufficient out of the kindness of their hearts. ", "I mean I think he is trying to get a points system kind of similar to Canada instituted. No where is it mentioned that he would be prioritizing countries purely on nationality. \n\nhttp://www.cnn.com/2017/08/02/politics/trump-skills-immigration-plan-cotton-perdue/index.html", "Well he was in silicon valley...one of the most expensive regions on the planet ", "Hilarious how this pic makes people use the same logic that defeats their own argument on this issue... But the leftists will keep their head down and repeat slogans and what ever is popular on their side without any questions. ", "Columbus never made it to mainland North America(USA) though. He just fucked about in the Caribbean and South American coast(which he still thought was India) killing and raping for gold.\n\nThe immigrants in this cartoon are most likely meant to be the pilgrims from england.", "High as a percentage of income, but wages are also super high, so net earnings are pretty good still. ", "Ok so it makes sense that the Native Americans would be ravaged by new viruses, germs, sicknesses since their immune system wasn't prepared for new strains to be introduced. But, wouldn't the new settlers have the same issues? Presumably more since they are the ones living in a completely new environment? \n\n", "I moved to a foreign land where I didn't even speak a word of the language. I don't have any problem with my home country (America) but I moved because I wanted to, and it's a good opportunity to see the world. ", "I just finished reading that book recently and loved it! You should read his follow up, 1493, if you liked that. Started it this past week and am also digging it so far", "Yes", "Sigh. I went ahead and looked at your post history, and it's pretty apparent you are just a troll. But, no, I did not say that you do look down on them. And now I'm disengaging from this conversation.", "Also European countries had a much higher standard of living, so the shithole comment makes no sense. ", "Sigh, I didnt bother to look at your history to know you are a troll. But thanks for the follow up snarky comment to a legitimate question.\nAnd I'm oh so thankful for your disengagement.", "True", "You think cholera comes from thin air? London was one of the shittiest cities at the time (literally, ever heard of the Great Stink?) \n \nhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLhyKYa0YJ_5Aq7g4bil7bnGi0A8gTsawu&v=TLpzHHbFrHY\n\nEDIT: Link isnt about the Great Stink, but is about the Broad Street Pump.", "Except it wasn't immigration, it was invasion.", "check poster's history. not neutral. chubulant is a frequent contributor to russia and t_d. there is also some brigading going on @ -21 points on the post.\n\nour logic is being used against us", "They should have built a wall...", "There’s no such thing as original sin, just because my ancestors murdered doesn’t mean I did shit. So there is zero hypocrisy. All I learned from history in this case was letting your country be invaded is dangerous idiocy. ", "?", "Because Trump. I need to get on that Karma train sometime in the next 3 years for ultimate Karma.", "Lazy attempt. Keep milking the karma train.", "Then add taxes and tariffs already imposed on products. A freaking Toyota Corolla is ~$37,000 USD.", "Thank you for the info, it is appreciated. I have heard of the water technique i think the use a similar process in Northern Iraq.", "Who says they’re joking?", ">I'm guessing your opinion of Africa is formed mainly from the media and you've never experienced it yourself.\n\n\nCNN link. ", "What about moderate Anti-Trump circle jeepers, are they above or below the liberal ones on the tool sharpness scale.", "Triggered much?", "What he said but exactly the opposite. ", "As a Native, I concur. ", "The point is that Europe was not in any way a shithole compared to North America.\n", "It also wasn't \"immigration.\"\n\nThey didn't come over, looking to become part of the native americans.\n\nThey came over to make the land their own. ie. They came to conquer. ", "Didn't you know that the mark of a true American is the desire for open borders. ", "Ok, tell me how great the North American natives are doing after the \"immigration\" from Europe?", "I’ll just leave this here \n\n[Shadow Banning ](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/01/12/project_veritas_hidden_camera_twitter_and_reddit_do_shadow_ban_certain_political_opinions.html) ", "Yea... but is that the intended message? That we better not let foreigners in because they may in some way harm us? I still don't get it.", "OP's an idiot according to all these comments 😂✌️.", "Sorry I mistook your point, thought you meant we should still be giving reparations but in some different manner. I agree with your stance on the topic. ", "But there's public transportation. In many parts of the US, car ownership is pretty much mandatory if you're going to get to work. In many parts of Europe, it's entirely optional.", "This isn't a joke asshole. Accepting immigrants is a fundamental American value.", "Just because a situation happened at one time doesn't mean that it will happen again. The examples you provide are not as similar to a modern situation as you suggest.\n\nThe majority (90%) of Native Americans died because of illnesses brought over from the old world. The trade of goods and services made a good vector for infection. Before European contact, North America housed a sprawling civilization comprised of many seperate and diverse groups. When Americans started the push for more land, they were pushing on already weakened factions of people. It's absurd to suggest that this could happen again in a modern civilization.\n\nPeople who use Native Americans as poster children for immigration are pointing out the hypocrisy that many people, who are staunchly against immigration (like Trump), descended from immigrants.\n\nOn the guns comment: outlawing guns does not create a climate in which millions of people are exterminated. Many modern countries have outlawed guns and they haven't had a crisis even close to near the Holocaust. \n\nTLDR: correlation does not imply causation", "Thanks.", "Then let's look at everything else. Gallon of mil $7, 1lb of ground beef $12, average jeans $100, price to buy a condo ~$455/sqft outside of the city, ~$650/sqft in the city.", "Haha. Touché. ", "Why not? I seriously don’t understand how cultural and diplomatic connections aren’t a metric that should be weighed. An Australian or Canadian has far more in common with the average American than a Chinese man of equal qualification. A Japanese man has more in common with your average American than a Russian. The average Israeli has more in common with the average American than an Iranian. Furthermore, the countries I listed are allies to the US, and have heavy diplomatic influence with each other. \n\nA merit based system should consider wealth, education, skills, English fluency, and yes, assimilation chances, into effect. And the fact is that it doesnt take work to assimilate someone whose culture and government deal with the US on amiable terms. You grab a Chechan and a German and throw them both into American society, and chances are the German will have cultural values and functions that allow him to assimilate better than a Chechan, despite both of them being white. \n\nIn the context of the current system, where we take in oeople for diversity’s sake and then let them sponsor their family, there is a statistically likelier chance that people from poor, dissimilar countries will be less productive and less likely to assimilate into the US mainstream. Plus, there have been studies, as cited by Bret Weinstein, that indicate certain cultural differences, when the only non-controlled factor in said study, indicate the likelihood for a person to seek welfare. In a merit based system, we’re getting the best South Koreans, Nigerians, French, Chileans, etc. but the best Frenchman will likely have traits that make him assimilate better than a Georgian or Somalian. ", "Which rules do you believe are being ignored? ", "ITT: Trump fans get angry.", "Oddly enough, no.\n\nNorth America had been almost completely isolated from new populations when the bridge to Siberia retreated as the ice age ebbed. All of the Americas only traded with other nations in the Americas. While they had a vibrant population, it was much smaller and very much more isolated than European culture.\n\nHowever, Europeans had contact with Africa, Asia, and had even survived their own plague that wiped out a large portion of the populace. They lived in more concentrated conditions and traded far more extensively. They were just germier people than Americans in the 15th century. They'd already been through smallpox and many similar epidemics and were just more resistant.\n\nOddly enough, their early contacts MIGHT have brought some diseases back, but not like the small pox that killed half of the Hurons in a year, or the hemorrhagic fever that killed 80% of the remaining Aztec population in 1545.\n\nOne possible disease is Syphilis. A scourge until modern times, it wasn't really documented before Columbus. But it WAS documented in the mid 1490s. However, there's also no conclusive proof it came back with Columbus and it has been debated for half a millennium whether it was just a mutation of an existing bacteria or something brought back from America. ", "The first one.", "I don't see it. ", "Colonialists need to get OUT. OUT. OUT. Build the ocean wall!", "It says no comics. If you check the sidebar or check the report list you can see it.", "Holy shit. My 3-bedroom 2-bath home cost $60,000. I guess I'll stay.", "Denmark here - Just saying hi, since you can't be seen together without at least one of us Danes present.", "HEY EVERYONE! THIS GUY DOESN'T USE AN AD BLOCKER!", "Almost like Reddit has an agenda 🤔", "Right? Shoulda adhered to policy", "We get that same shit over here in the UK, too, whenever the 'let everyone in' mob get all worked up.\n\n'Britain is a nation of immigrants blah blah blah.'\n\nNo, the Romans invaded, killed loads of people and nearly wiped out the native culture.\n\nThen the Angles, Saxons, Norse, Danes and Normans ditto.\n\nEvery single time it was an absolute catastrophe for the people who were already here.\n\nComing over in small numbers and adopting our culture is great. The other thing, not so much.\n", "More like a couple of thousand years too late. This land belongs to the Pleistoscene megafauna!", "Did tribes on the East Coast even wear headbonnets like that? I'm pretty sure they didn't. ", "That article itself says there are barely any hotels above a 1-star. The example they give of a good tourist hotel is foreign built (using local material, but foreign investment nonetheless).\n\nOnce again demonstrating, the only decent infrastructure Africa can build, is built by colonial (now “capitalist”) powers. Draw your own conclusions about whether these counties can statistically be expected to contribute as immigrants if they’ve never demonstrated any ability to build or maintain their own urban civilization (we don’t need factory/farm workers anymore).\n\nThis has nothing to do with race, it’s a question of empirical results. People who want to theorize whether it is due to race, nutrition, culture, whatever, that’s on them but doesn’t change the end result we see on the ground.", "This isn’t ... this isn’t saying what you think it is ...", "You see, him being baldly racist, sexist, wholly unqualified, damaging our international reputation and future diplomatic power, selling out everyday Americans to his billionaire cronies, and being a general liar, scammer, and despicable human being means there are just SO MANY reasons to fucking hate Trump that yeah, you don't actually have to put much thought into before finding a legitimate reason to hate that clown-faced orange turd. \n\n\nEdit: Ouch! Why am I being downvoted so? I clearly have put quite a lot of thought into why I really, REALLY fucking hate that bloated, McDonald's gorging, dementia-riddled, traffic cone colored, complete \"fucking moron\" (to quote one Rex Tillerson) who failed his way into the White House. ", "Interesting! \n\nThanks TIL.", "Says a person who guaranteed know jack fuck all shit about Arabs, Hatians, or Norwegians. \n\n\nAnyone who has ever done a modicum of research about any of these groups would never make such a meaningless, sweeping generalization. \n\n\nYou're just as big of a 'fucking moron' as Trump.", "Once again, a liberal racist. So you are saying the reason Norway has such a good education system, economy, healthcare, infrastructure, etc., is because they are white? Well good for you bigot.\n\nThe rest of us don’t care that they are white or not (notice we don’t complain about immigration from Asian countries), we just know they are doing something right, and want more of it here rather than promoting immigrants from failed countries who statistically will be a burden on our systems. \n\nEven if you want to run a charity for those failed countries, it is exponentially more effective to send aid there to help them build and fix problems rather than taking a drop out of the bucket to come here and leaving all the rest with the same problems as before.", "Because immigrants come to the United States to start new lives as Americans. In America it doesn't matter one bit where your family comes from. Nobody gets bonus points for the culture of their ancestors, because all Americans are equals. Nobody has to integrate into anything to be an American either, since we don't have any national standardized culture. We don't have a state religion. We don't have a national language. Our unwavering commitment to equality is what America is all about.", "What's that? Sorry, I can't hear you over my penicillin.", "Don't try arguing with these The_Dotard bottom feeders and alt-reich dumbasses. \n\n\nThey really think Europe was this pinnacle of civilization when it was rampant with disease and unclean conditions. People shit in the streets constantly, and those with chamber pots emptied their shit into the streets. \n\n\nJohn Snow's discovery that cholera was waterborn came by tracing outbreaks to the waterways in London and realizing that the water was it was literally full of shit. And that was in the mid-1800s. I don't even want to know what the water was like in the 1400s. \n\n\nEuropean cities were absolute shitholes anyone who argues otherwise is, to quote one Rex Tillerson, \"a fucking moron\". ", "maluminse: non-sequitur about South Americans\n\nhudspud: pointing out that its a non-sequitur because South Americans aren't a part of the discussion of North America\n\nHow did you come to the conclusion that I was trying to take a stance, one way or the other, about the original post from that exchange? \n\nClearly the native North Americans are quite poorly but nowhere in my earlier comment did I say anything otherwise either. ", "Can we trade, one for one? ", "No, the large majority of people who emigrated to North America were escaping persecution, famine, war, lack of opportunity etc.. Immigrants also bring their rights and customs and will typically defend them(even violently) because it is part of their identity. When their numbers or technological advantage reaches the tipping point, the immigrants become the establishment and the previous establishment goes into decline.\n\nAcademics can ponder and commiserate the historic effects of mass migration on established populations blah blah blah, but the truth is, at the end of the day, either you love who you are and hold on to it, or you get pushed out of the way by someone else who does. We can't all be windshields and no one wants to be the bug.", "Some Native tribes have never been conquered in battle, and never signed any Treaties or agreements. So there's that.", "No, they're implying it's fucking stupid for (let's be honest) mostly white Americans to bitch and moan about immigration knowing they live on stolen lands that never fucking belonged to them in the first place. \n\n\n\n\nHere the descendants of a bunch of unskilled, illiterate interlopers from white shithole countries are, crying about the spectre of unskilled, illiterate interlopers from brown and black shithole countries, even though brown people from \"shithole\" countries are FAR more likely to have actual skills, and better education, literacy, and command of the English language than their poor, know-nothing European ancestors did when they fucked off whatever boat they came here on. ", "Similar sharpness, different kind of tool.", "and so is being bigoted against new immigrants...", "Did you report it? ", "For 2017 I made $130k and paid 5.5% in federal taxes. I'm not complaining about high taxes", "Merit based immigration is the way.", "I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me sarcastically or what but I downvoted you in case not.", "not really racist, its just saying how unregulated immigration to america was actually really really bad for the natives.\n\nwhether or not that message was intentional or not, dunno...", "The literal point is that unregulated immigration was actually really really bad for the natives.", "My comment was not agreeing or disagreeing with what you said, however what i said was not sarcastic.\n\n\n\nalso i didn't know the downvote was a disagreement button.", "I'm gonna downvote however I feel like because I never agreed to any rules. I disagree with you, so downvote.", "disagree with me personally or what i said? because people in america have been bigoted towards new immigrants since the 1800's, be it religion, place of origin, or whatever, this is undeniable.", "Great point. Foreigners are colonizers attempting to replace the native population through disease and genocide. Thanks Jason, you genius. ", "And where are the native americans now, huh??\n\n/s", "As of 2008, 30% of immigrants in France were from former French colonies in North Africa (Maghreb, otherwise known as The countries of Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia). \nhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_France\n\n I get the feeling that you haven’t really done a lot of research on French immigration in the past. That’s OK, I would assume most people haven’t. I wrote a thesis paper as a history major in college on the post World War II Algerian immigration to France, and a lot of the problems that has caused since. Here is a very short and simplified overview:\n\nThe French forced millions of Algerians to come to France leaving their families behind, in the post World War II era. They needed cheap labor to rebuild. The Algerians hated it, because they largely felt that France had failed to protect their colony from Germany during World War II. The French culture is not nearly as inclusive as the American culture, ethically speaking. This isn’t a black white thing like in America; this is a French/non-French thing, which is what you find much more commonly in Europe. These Algerians that we’re essentially forced to leave their families behind to come do cheap labor in France were not French citizens; they spoke French, and they were forced to live in France, but they were not treated as equal citizens in the country. In the decades since, The plentiful work from rebuilding Europe has of operated. Most of these Algerians experience extreme disenfranchisement, and prejudice. They live in terrible living conditions that is de-facto segregated from the rest of the French citizens. Their unemployment rates or exponentially higher then the rest of France. Paris was full of writing about 10 years ago, and it was largely the Algerian population that was doing so because of the terrible quality of life and systemic racism they experience there.\n\nHere is a quick google link if you want to learn more:\n\nhttp://www.history.ac.uk/ihr/Focus/Migration/articles/house.html\n", "I wonder if it is because you may be more likely to have an employer to provide all of the benefits that the Norwegians get from their government through taxes if you are college educated in America. So then you get the best of both worlds? Maybe? I don't know really. ", "Are you saying that it is $455 per square foot? Holy fucking shit! I am in the process of building a house and am planning on spending no more than maybe $75 a square foot. ", "I ment the point of the comment he was replying to", "K right, and that bigotry has always been wrong. Rape isn't an American tradition because it sometimes happens in America.", "Yeahhhh... The average new home price is $470,000. This is looking at the Oslo area. If you want to live in BFE your home cost will drop but food like a pizza will skyrocket.", "and? i never said it was right. i am saying that its equally as \"fundamentally american\" and that things can change. america was founded on the ability to change, that's why our government has the power to amend the constitution.", "And that’s not what he said anyway, IF we take anyone from anywhere, shithole country or not it should be based on Merit. Slow it down, close the gate Halfway, slow down the inflow and monitor and check it better. ", "After hearing it was odd I double checked my work by looking at the photo again. Natives in traditional wear. Ships built in the period in which America was 'discovered'. So not sure where its odd. Its odd that were talking modern America when everything in the graphic represents non modern America except the quote.", "Sure that's fine and all. But the government does not have the right to modify our immigration policies to ones that favor people based on where their parents were born, since that's clearly antithetical to the axiom that all men are created equal.", "I think that's exactly right", "i mean, they absolutely have the right to do so, however their purpose is to try and decide what the majority of the population wants, and to act accordingly.\n\nalso as far as i know the current government officials don't want a permanent ban of people from certain countries, only to eventually get a system in place to vet out people who could be coming here with malicious intent, based on the probability of such threat based on country of origin.", "[Similar](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTko1unU8AAu05r.jpg)", "South Americans did. As did Natives but in different manner. \n\nThe rape is a reference to the mass rape and carnage which Columbus committed on the people he encountered. \n\n'Better'? Europeans had little to no hygiene. The black plague was an outcome of horrid hygiene and no sewage control. The Tems (?) river was grotesquely polluted. \n\n\nSo no they did not have the incident of rape and murder which the interloper wrought upon them.", "Please don’t paint us all with that brush. All it took for him to get elected was poisoning the minds of less than 1/5 of our population. That also means it can be corrected similarly in 2020.\n\nThat being said if he gets re-elected in 2020 I’m sure many of us would happily move to Norway...are you gonna take us all in?", "Yup, the fact that people seem to now be taking the position that there aren't shithole countries is pretty hilarious. ", "FUCK DRUMPF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EUROPE WAS A SHITHOLE COMPARED TO THE REAL AMERICANS ADVANCED CIVILIZATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", "But... DRUMPF!!!!??!", "The man in the low tepee ", "lmfao", "cringed", "That's a difference between Canada and the US though. Canada is a cultural mosaic, The US is a melting pot.", "Comparatively it was, native Americans had less disease, had better hygiene, and generally lived longer. Europe was a shithole up until the Victorian era", "Aw, do you need a hug?", "Do you not get that that intention is super fucked up?", "eye of the beholder", "ARE YOU TRYING TO RAPE ME?!!!!??!?!?", "No dude, it's a blatant attempt to undermine the most American of all ideals, that you don't get extra status by birth.", "Yes. When you see Spanish ships, a whole lot of awful shit is about to go down.", "rofl ur right hahahaha ", "Funny, I don't remember immigrating to another country and commiting murder. Was I drunk?", "Sends the message that immigrants will upset the current balance like it did with the indians", "More like refugees", "well said", "I haven’t decided yet, send nudes.", "Possibly yes lol", "if by 'overnight' you mean in 2010, then yes. ", "Ya turns out this picture is anti muslim", "I know they're gesturing towards a gorgeous boat that just spanned the entire ocean, something the native americans never accomplished.\n\n Doesn't really make sense to call them a shithole country. ", "This comic's joke has been done soooooo many times. I'm getting tired of \"the native americans should have built a wall\"", "Ya, I liked the one info graphic detailing the places famous liberals threatened to move to if trump won\n\nIt was like spain, Norway, berlin lol none of them picked haiti", "Kind-of doesn't make sense though...'shit-hole' countries usually aren't centuries more advanced than you are... ", ">No, they're implying it's fucking stupid for (let's be honest) mostly white Americans to bitch and moan about immigration knowing they live on stolen lands that never fucking belonged to them in the first place. \n\nThe European settlers waged war against the Native Americans for centuries and in the end they won. So yes, it is \"stolen\" land, but what part of the world isn't? Since the beginning of the human species we have taken land by conquest and the parts of the world where the European settlers came from probably weren't owned by their ancestors either before they conquered it.\n\n>Here the descendants of a bunch of unskilled, illiterate interlopers from white shithole countries are, crying about the spectre of unskilled, illiterate interlopers from brown and black shithole countries, even though brown people from \"shithole\" countries are FAR more likely to have actual skills, and better education, literacy, and command of the English language than their poor, know-nothing European ancestors did when they fucked off whatever boat they came here on. \n\nYes and the massive difference is that the European settlers weren't immigrants, but foreign invaders. ", "In the context of the conversation, asking that question would be to imply having an opposing world view is equal to raping children. If i defend opposing opinions then I must be defending raping children too?\n\nWhilst the above would be absurd, genocidal violence did occur in the settlement and expansion of european colonies in America. “They’re better off with our wonderful civilisation” ignores the genocidal violence it took to force that unwanted civility upon them, which is what the comment tried to point out in an overtly confrontational way.\n\nI have used a similar manner to put a point across, and can easily read between the lines to understand the underlying point without it being wholly explained. However, perhaps the real problem is that I already agree with their view and need no explanation. For you who does not see the issue, it would probably land a lot better to first explain why the means did not at all justify the end and then follow up to ask if the other person would still support the process knowing the history behind it.", "LOL how dumb can you be? This comic does the exact opposite of what you want. You're basically saying that the current immigrants are bloodthirsty conquerors who will completely exterminate us. ", "No, it's a reminder that Europeans were the original unwanted immigrants from shithole countries, which underscores the hypocrisy of their descendants criticizing newer immigrants as unwanted and being from shithole countries.", "Still doesn't make sense. Europe at that time was far more advanced and not really a shithole. They went to America to exploit it, that's very different from people who leave a poor country to seek life in a richer one.", "I can assure you someone did the same to your country, as they did to mine.\n\nAre you better off because of it?\n\nIn my case, Spain, they brought aditional knowledge, habits, science etc. Like in each and every case in history. At the cost of blood.\n\nWould you have been better off without the invasions?\n\nWho knows. Who cares. Only the mentally or the brainwashed would claim to know the future to that extent. It's history. It's my history. That's all there is to it.\n\nThe future depends on me.\n\n\nSo the question is just ignorant, irrelevant, delusional and just SJW post-modernist, cultural Marxist crap.\n\nAnd you get his point because is a SJW dog whistle.\n\n ", "No, please don't. My subway trip is already really crowded ", "Europe ABSOLUTELY was a shithole.\n\n\nThe average European was a poor, barely literate peasant living in a shithole city were they literally emptied their chamberpots into the streets and into rivers, or living on a shithole farm in actual huts made of grass and mud. \n\n\nHell, many historians credit the rampant pestilence and disease in Europe as the source of the Renaissance itself. It took huge swaths of the population dying from disease and concentrating wealth in fewer hands to allow Europeans to begin investing more in arts and sciences. \n\n\nEurope fucking plagued itself into advancement, but it wasn't a shithole? Right.\n\n\nAnd aside from the most war and disaster ravaged among them, any modern \"third world countries\" is going to have more standard education and a much stronger middle class than pre-colonial Europe ever did. \n\n\nSeriously, some of you fucking morons should crack a goddamn history book before pulling bullshit out of your backwards, racist asses to defend your backwards racist ass of a President. ", "You think Europe was a shithole then, but calling modern African nations shitholes now is... “racist.”\n\nYou’re a dumbass. ", "While I fundamentally agree with that statement, I truly do believe that everyone should have a fair chance at life regardless of what circumstances they were born into, the sad truth of reality is that is not how the world works and we are not in a position to change that.\n\nAnd I do not see an extra vetting process specific to certain regions negativly affecting the chances of successful immigration into the United States. Does it significantly slow down the process of getting into the United States? Absolutely, however if you are not a threat to the United States then you should still be able to immigrate into the United States.\n\nKeep in mind those are my beliefs on how the system should be... how it actually is, I have no control over and could potentially disagree with some of the factors they look into to keep someone out.", "Yes, because we're comparing Europe of the 1400s and African nations NOW. \n\n\nThe only fucking morons who think pre-colonial Europe was less of a shithole than modern Africa are racist fucking morons who's only possibly justification for believing something so obviously stupid and wrong is believing that Europe is automatically better at everything than Africa.", "I don’t think they’re at the point where the invaders and the locals are so diluted and intermixed that you cannot tell the difference. Australia and New Zealand have the same issues where their native population has not been and is not on equal footing.\n\nRegardless, I am more-so arguing against revisionist “what does genocide have to do with this???” bullshit. It happened, and “they should be fucking thanking us, wtf!?” is also bullshit. It can be argued that the children that followed have it better than if the europeans never bulldozed over their ancestors, but that is definitely not the clear truth.\n\nSide question: why does every uncomfortable fact have to be “sjw”?", "Not sure if he did, but I did. And probably many, many others too. It's been 18 hours since this was posted.\n\nIn fact, it has a flair, which can only be set by mods.", "Haiti is a shit hole it literally looks like a Fallout town.", ">fact \n\nYou've provided none. \n\nOnly interpretations after someone tried to \"shame\" me into agreeing to again, just some post-modernist cheap, shallow, polluted and manipulated view of the world.\n\nSo yes, SJW and by definition, no facts shared, only feels. Grow up, learn history, improve your community.\n\n\n\n", "Stating a fact is now “racist.” Lol. The modern left. ", "That's after the point were we really started displacing Native Americans.\n\nThe initiating point was the development of the very first colonies. \n\nThen we push/killed them out of their lands in order to expand. \n\nIt wasn't until the colonies were more established more akin to towns/cities, that refugees would make the trip and try to start a new life.", "You're talking about a time well past the point that we first started to take land from Native Americans.\n\nThe initiating point was the development of the very first colonies. \n\nThen we push/killed them out of their lands in order to expand. \n\nIt wasn't until the colonies were more established more akin to towns/cities, that refugees would make the trip and try to start a new life.\n\nNow perhaps we simply view this as having different \"starting points\" in which we are referencing. In which case, yes a large majority were immigrating to established living area's, and as a whole, expanding out from there. \n\nLooking back at the image, those people on the boat weren't coming to be a part of Native American culture + their own rights and customs. They were coming to be a part of the colonies that were already there.", "No, not really.\n\nThe ship coming in isn't filled with people looking to immigrate into Native American culture. They were coming to live in the Colonies that were already established. They had no delusions that they were just going to live on the Native American's lands. They were coming to claim land for their own. \n\nThough our conflicting views on this are likely based simply on the timeline in which we reference our arguments.\n", "Pretty much. Then liberals can stop crowing about how great socialism is in Scandinavia", "There is a difference between simple immigration and armed invasion ", "I'm not implying causation, simply that using an argument that actively weakens your side rather than strengthens it is a poor debating tactic.", "Because it's usually left leaning Pro-immigration people who post sarcastic images of native Americans saying we shouldn't let these illegal immigrants in. Never quite realising that they are entirely correct, that the natives would have been better off not to allow it and that it's really a point against mass migration not for it.", "Doesn't that only reinforce the point that mass migration comes with significant dangers though?\n\n\"Oh come on, it's not like they'll want to kill you and take your land if we let them in in huge numbers.\"\n\n\"Well it's not without precedent. Remember when we did that to them? Let's not let that happen to us.\"", "Is this your version of “fake news”?\n\nI guess we’re done. It’s more than a little worrying that you’d actively deny history. It’s there to learn from. Whether you’d want to repeat it or avoid repeating it is up to you, but denying it happened is never right.", "No one has denied anything apart from your twisted, fucked up interpretation of history.\n\nThe one blind as fuck is you mate, and everyone can and or will see that in time.", "Because if you don't you silk all die from disease ", "Haha very true. In a lot of ways it’s an even worse setting. I just wanted to share a (not so) fun fact.", "> do you think cholera comes from thin air?\n\nDid you reply to the wrong person, because this doesn't make any sense. It is literally the exact opposite of what I said.", "Your great grandfather was a murderer? Then you're a hypocrite for not wanting to be murdered!", "that's your opinion, but for your claims do you have legitimate proof?\n\nracist: need some proof\n\nsexist: need some proof\n\nwholly unqualified: guessing you don't understand what's needed to be qualified to be a president. he fits all of the requirements. if he \"deserved\" it is another question.\n\nno president hasn't damaged our international reputation to at least one country, but sure I'll give you that.\n\ndamaging our future diplomatic power: need some proof\n\nselling out everyday americans to his billionaire cronies: proof?\n\nliar/other insults: proof?", "I feel the need to ask. What is my fucked up version of history which you are denying?", "You mean like the FACT that Europe was a shithole full of pestilence, disease, and poverty? Those kind of facts? \n\n\nThe modern right-wing is an embarrassing gaggle of gullible, low-information, anti-intellectual bigots and morons. Honestly not too different from the right-wing of the past, so at least you're consistent in your rampant bigotry and ignorance. ", "same thing happens in the US for the most part.", "LOL, a Trump supporter demanding proof. \n\n\nI'm sure Seth Rich's family and the owners of Comet Ping-Pong would really love to have a fucking word with all of you mouth-breathers on that score. ", "So old. ", "You spelled Obama wrong. 👍🏻", ">How times have changed.\n\n[Meh, not really](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/09/6c/b9/096cb9b843106c94e45c748c2467a260.jpg)", "At least you admitted that you have no proof, rather than playing circles.", "> Silicon Valley.\n\n> it was pretty much the same financially as being in Denmark.\n\nThat's not making Denmark look good, bud...", "I see your point (and agree) but the phrase of achieving Norwegianism makes me giggle. Like Ace Ventura trying to achieve intergalactic oneness, the Haitian man struggles to find inner peace on a fjord. Please pass the Lutefisk!", "> Can you quote him saying \"Norway is the standard for all immigrants\"?\n\n", "Actually I didn't vote Trump, so can't really call me a supporter. but I see you have no proof so I'll let you go back to having a tantrum.", "“anti-intellectual” \n\nLOL\n\nYou say that unironically while defending third world migration and denying basic facts. The modern left. You’re a fucking joke. You think you’re smart, but you’re nothing more than a blind, ignorant, pretentious, virtue-signaling fool too brainwashed and politically correct to see a shithole for a shithole. Move to one, enjoy the “diversity.”", "They're Norwegian according to our dialect. Plain and simple.", "Yeah, that's like saying I have no proof the sky is blue or grass is green. \n\n\nIf you actually need proof of Trump being a complete ass-boil of a human being, it's only because you're deaf, dumb, and blind and happily so. \n\n\nAnd let's be honest, both of us know you don't WANT proof. You have no use for it. It'd be utterly fucking wasted on you, so why the fuck would I waste my time?\n\n\nA cursory fucking google search for \"Trump racist examples\" would give you all the proof you need, but you don't do that because we both know you much prefer to being mired in your ignorance.", "Wait, you don't think you can prove that the sky is blue or that grass is green?", "I think he thought that for the same reason I did, because that link redirects directly to the comments, so it looks like one huge ad. I had to scroll up to realize what happened", "Friend, these blankets smell funny.", ">liberals\n\n>socialism\n\nthonking", "At least the immigrants from shitholes in Africa are likely to have beyond a sixth grade education, vaccinations, and basic literacy skills, unlike the swarms of Europeans immigrants who flooded the shores of America in the 1800s and early 1900s like locusts, who were by and large illiterate, uneducated, impoverished, low-skilled manual laborers, many of whom had at best a tenuous grasp of English (barring those from shitholes in the British Empire), and carrying tons of diseases from the homeland. \n\n\nReally the only ones who tended to actually have educations were the Jews, but they tended to be fleeing persecution, not looking for a \"better life\" than the shitholes of Italy, Poland, Norway, Ireland, Scotland, and Eastern Europe had to offer. \n\n\n\n\nAnd now, here their descendants protesting about brown immigrants being given the same opportunities their ancestors got, with not a hint of self-awareness, irony, or indeed, compassion to be found among a single rotten fucking one of you.", "If you require proof beyond your own fucking eyes, then that's YOUR problem, and you have no right to demand someone else show you what you refuse to see. ", "Europeans came to a place with nothing and made something.\n\nThat’s not what’s happening with third world migration today, you piece of shit. They want to come to an already-developed first world nation to take advantage of welfare or to simply escape their own shithole instead of improving it. Europeans didn’t discover a developed nation, they discovered land. They developed it themselves. Fuck your “compassion,” you virtue-signaling nutcase.", "> Actually I didn't vote Trump\n\nI didn't call you a Trump voter, I called you a Trump supporter.\n\n\nAt this point, Trump has revealed himself to be such a disgusting human being that the only people defending him are those who support him and support his ideals. There is no one \"in the middle\" playing devil's advocate to a man who has so frequently shown himself to be so morally intellectually bankrupt.\n\n\nSo you are very clearly a Trump supporter, even if you \"didn't vote for him\" (which I only believe if you are non-American or were simply too young. Barring that, LOL I don't believe for a fucking second you didn't vote for that piece of shit).", "...No. There's most certainly very solid proof that the sky is generally blue, and that grass tends to be green when in a healthy state (when seen by a human eye without colorblindness). Most importantly, the names of colors were invented by humans. Grass fits the definition of what humans call green, due to chlorophyll. \n\nNow, how is this relevant to Trump? I have no right to demand proof because grass is green?", "> That’s not what’s happening with third world migration today\n\n\nNope, that is EXACTLY what's happening, it's just that bigoted filth like you refuses to see it because it doesn't play into your pathetic need to prop up whatever failure-filled existence you lead with hate and ignorance.\n\n\nAnd holy shit at you claiming anyone needs a history lesson when you fucking believe Europeans developed this land themselves. The only people that fucking stupid are the ones who want to be. ", "Bots", "And there is most certainly very solid proof that Trump is a racist, sexist, unqualified threat to our international standing and diplomatic power who has sold out everyday Americans to billionaires and is in general, a liar, scammer, and despicable human being. \n\n\nTrust me, Google has all the proof about Trump you need. It's as easy to see as the green in the fucking grass. \n\n\nIf you don't want to see it, don't blame me for not wanting to waste the effort to show you the fucking obvious. ", "Invasion is a better term.", "k, thx for the sources", "Third world migrants are developing first world nations?\n\nLOL\n\nYou are fucking clueless. And now you’re going on with the usual bullshit - that Europeans didn’t do it themselves. What, because of slave labor? If slaves were all that’s needed to develop first world nations, we wouldn’t be calling Africa a shithole today. Jesus Christ you’re daft. It’s hilarious.\n\nKeep an eye on Europe over the next couple of decades, you’ll see how third world migration works out. Ironically, it’ll lead to the rise of nationalism (which has already started). ", "Throughout history every area of land was conquered from other people but only the indians get this pass to claim they were unjustifiabley conquered.", ">didn't vote trump\n>still a trump supporter\nokay so you're just trolling and aren't actually trying to have an intellectual discussion. Thank you for clearing that up.\n\nI didn't vote Trump because I voted 3rd party since I supported Ted Cruz and voted for him in the primary.\n\nHave a good day and good job at making me take the bait.", "> If slaves were all that’s needed to develop first world nations, we wouldn’t be calling Africa a shithole today.\n\n\nNo, you also need to rape and pillage half the globe stealing untold trillions worth of land, natural resources, and minerals from those developing nations as every single first world nation did. \n\n\nTHAT is why Africa is a \"shithole\" today, because it was mercilessly plundered, pillaged, oppressed, and terrorized by Western powers for centuries. \n\n\nTo paraphrase an SNL joke, the West is like the uncle that molested Africa, and then wonders why it \"grew up weird\". \n\n\nWhy don't you go fuck off to Stormfront or wherever the other losers who's only perceived accomplishment is their skin color congregate and bother them with your backwards, racist drivel.", "Because Europe was never pillaged, right, you ignorant dumbass? Jesus. And I never mentioned skin color, you did. And yeah, you paraphrasing SNL. That sounds about right.\n\nLMAO. \n\nYou are clueless and thanks to idiots like you, more and more people are waking up to this kind of bullshit around the world. Like I said, eyes on Europe. I have more accomplishments than you ever will - and unlike you, I won’t vote to undo my and my ancestor’s accomplishments out of some laughable, naive sense of self-righteousness. You are fucking scum.", "Oh, so you're a \"Lying Ted\" supporter huh? A \"Lying Ted\" supporter who also defends Trump, who gave \"Lying Ted\" the nickname \"Lying Ted\". \n\n\nYeah, that fucking tracks. ", "Why? To see that Europe is full of racist fucking morons? We know this already. ", "So racist, so moronic.. that the entire fucking third world wants to move there.\n\nNot to escape “shitholes,” but to escape diverse paradise. \n\nYou are one stupid, dense fuck. Absolutely pathetic.", "Sign me up!", "So why are you not moving to the US then? Are you unwilling or unable? Do you want it enough to do the work of moving?", "i was talking about the migrants that come on visas, but i see your point", "Getting a visa and a citizenship or whatever is a pain in the ass process that takes years and years also i'm not currently in a position to move, my studies have not yet been finished, maybe i will move at some point in the future, maybe not, it's not like Finland's a bad country or anything.", "This makes a very good point. Settlers came here and CONQUERED the INDIGENOUS people. Now natives are threatened by the same from people who wish to come here and change things again. We can allow it, or not. ", "Most of the time the houses don’t even have glass in the windows or running water. I would politely urge you to google current reservation housing pictures. \nIf there was anything left that could benefit or train someone to improve their employment you can be darn sure it never made it to the people it was intended for. There are many that do “get out” of the reservation .\nWe don’t get special privileges in education that I’m aware of. Maybe a few more qualify for grants,scholarships, etc., due to their ancestry. ", "People from Sweden hav been for many years coming to work in Norway in huge numbers for many years. Less now.. But few Norwegians have traveled to Sweden to work. So even if we are similar conditions ar not the same." ]	593	pics	How times have changed
https://imgur.com/8WatQ2h.jpeg	/r/pics/comments/7qpfho/frozen_eyelashes/	[ "Didn't someone just get in trouble for photographing corpses they found in the woods?", "Is this a corpse? I only see severely frozen eyelashes.", "The pinkish color of the superficial skin layers shows that there is irritation; inflammatory responses and changes in capillary blood flow. They must not have been dead for very long and are probably still warm enough to slice open and climb inside to survive another night in the woods. The cold will also preserve their flesh and their tissues will still be edible for a week or so without succumbing to bacteria and wild animals. LPT: eat the more distal meat first if you must leave the body behind, but eat the more central cuts first if you plan on using the entire corpse. Extremities freeze quickly but the core decomposes more quickly since it keeps a higher temperature and the organ meat and neighboring structures must be consumed earlier. You can always dethaw the extremity meat and still have nutritional value without the danger of bacterial infection. They can also be detached and transported more easily, if movement is key to survival.", "I am canceling our camping trip.", "STOP REPOSTING!!!" ]	5	pics	Frozen eyelashes
https://i.redd.it/26013sc2lca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpfwq/my_moms_friend_meeting_keanu_reeves_in_beijing/	[ "Edit - This was in 2010", "at an event?", "Great body language. Like he’s photobombing her.", "No I’m pretty sure he was just doing some business and waiting for his translator to finish or something and she ran into him", "smiles noticing her hight", "You mean Keanu Reeves meeting your mom’s friend. She doesn’t look amused. ", "Whats up with the constant pic posting of Keanu's Sleeves?", "/r/Keanumirin", "He's not really in Beijing. He just downloaded it to his consciousness.." ]	9	pics	My mom’s friend meeting Keanu Reeves in Beijing
https://i.redd.it/2xgovgx8lca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpg4a/the_mermaids_pool_in_tahmoor_nsw/	[ "Nice. Wish I was beside that right now instead of sitting in qlds humidity ", "It was really nice yesterday, when we went, but it’s quite stormy today. Won’t be going back any time soon ):", "Beautiful!" ]	4	pics	The Mermaids Pool in Tahmoor, NSW
https://i.imgur.com/aJ1dPhS.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpgp5/trouble_is_a_goodboye_regardless_of_his_name/	[ "Did you name him that so every time he comes into a room you can say 'here comes trouble!'", "His momma named him that. I'm just the lucky guy that gets to dog sit him", "Borrow trouble for yourself, if that's your nature, but don't lend it to your neighbors.\n\n-Rudyard Kipling" ]	3	pics	Trouble is a goodboye regardless of his name
https://i.imgur.com/r1fdD4H.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qphfv/donald_trump_wearing_a_costume_and_mustache/	[ "It looks like this post is about US Politics. Various methods of filtering out content relating to US Politics can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/wiki/v2/resources/filter/politics).\n\nI am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pics) if you have any questions or concerns.", "Chris Christie behind him.", "[.](https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/clinton-regime-outdoes-itself-snatching-elian-gonzalez) ", "/u/bad_sneaker, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating the following rule(s):\n\n* Rule IV - Title violates title guidelines.\n\nYour title must convey accurate information. \n\nYou can read the full information about our title guidelines at /r/pics/w/titles\n\n\n\n\nFor information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/about/rules/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/w/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/bad_sneaker&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qphfv/donald_trump_wearing_a_costume_and_mustache/?context=10\\))", "You're leaving out the \"father won custody of the child and wanted the child to live with him\" part.", "/u/bad_sneaker, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating the following rule(s):\n\n* Rule IV - Title violates title guidelines.\n\nYour title must convey accurate information. \n\nYou can read the full information about our title guidelines at /r/pics/w/titles\n\n\n\n\nFor information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/about/rules/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/w/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/bad_sneaker&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qphfv/donald_trump_wearing_a_costume_and_mustache/?context=10\\))" ]	6	pics	Donald Trump wearing a costume and mustache disguise deports young El Salvadorian immigrant to celebrate the first Cinco de Mayo of his first year of office.
https://i.redd.it/ibkjcei0nca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpihn/a_15ton_wedding_cake_made_for_the_wedding_of_a/	[ "why is this flaired as US politics???", "Bad bot", "Bot did it, I guess it think the word 'president' in title = US politics.", "[More pics and video](https://lenta.ru/news/2018/01/15/tortik/).\n\nAccording to the article, the cake is 4 meters wide, 4.2 meters tall (including the cart its sitting on), weights 1.5 tons, and cost an equivalent of $66,000 to make.", "I just want to see what scale they weighed it on.", "Bad bot", "FAKE NEWS", "No way that weighs 3000 pounds", "Wan woowee wah", "It’s good to be the king (or at least know him really well)", "It's plausible. According to the source, the base of the cake alone (just the rectangular bottom part), it's 4m * 4m (400cm * 400cm), and about 20 cm tall, giving it a volume of 3,200 liters.\n\nFor comparison, water weighs approximately 1kg per liter, and a liter is 1000cm^3. If the cake was as dense as water, just the primary base (square part) would weight 3.2 tons.\n\nWe can assume the icing is a lot less dense than water, also the base looks more like 3m than 4m wide to me, but even then the entire cake (both the primary square base, the secondary circular base on top, and the castle on top of that) together could easily weight 1.5 tons.", "From the thumbnail I thought the trees were people...", "Holy crap the cake lights up", "Big smiles! 😃\n\nThis is beautiful.........", "In Russia, wedding cake eat you.\n\n(I know Kazakhstan isn't in Russia) ", "Hello, mods?! Other countries than the US got presidents you know? \nWhat an incredibly US-centric rule. ", "I like you!", "At that price I hope that somebody gets to live there when they are done with it. ", "If you were given this wedding cake for free, what would you do with it? ", "How can you even eat something like that? Where would you start??", "During the campaigns, posts about McDonald's were getting flagged as political because it has Donald in it.", "Thats such a beautiful cake, props to the ones who made it. But I ask you... How the fuck do you eat that?", "Based off the size of the guy in that picture, it does not look like 4m x 4m x 0.2m" ]	24	pics	A 1.5-ton wedding cake made for the wedding of a relative of the president of Kazakhstan
https://imgur.com/9x6JVDo.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpjnu/vivien_keszthelyi_the_youngest_female_racing/	[ "https://i.imgur.com/0cilQUu.jpg", "Audi liked her so much, they put four rings on her!", "Born Dec 7, 2000", "Whose her dad?", "She’s about to be the youngest pregnant female driver in the world. ", "Huh? ", "Still 17, dude", "Is Go Daddy still around?", "Who's*", "🚨🚨🚨🚨", "Hold your horses folks.", "She's from Hungary. They have unreasonably lax AOC laws.", "Not to worry, my horses are corralled.", "How is she so talented and beautiful ?!?", "Zoltán", "Not if she is under 18, and it’s a possessive pronoun. ", "Who's=who is, as in \"who is/who's her dad?\" Whose is the possessive pronoun, as in \"whose turn is it to wash the dishes?\" Or \"whose car is that in the driveway?\"\n\nI'm not sure what you mean by the under 18 thing.", "I’m joking ", "Genetics ", "Oh. Fair enough.", "Female racing must be one of the smallest sports in terms of people doing it. Makes it easier to be \"talented\"", "WHAAAAT", "I bet a lot of guys are trying to cross her finish line.", "pretty ", "In motorsports, youngest just means \"rich parents\"" ]	25	pics	Vivien Keszthelyi, The youngest female racing driver in the world
https://i.redd.it/72vleyc69ca01.png	/r/pics/comments/7qpjt9/moral_map_of_north_america_usa_1854_it_sometimes/	[ "That poem at the bottom.", "Interesting that Cuba is listed as a slave state ", "I read that, and just... Damn.", "Right.", "Look up the history. It is interesting.", "That's one blobby Pennsylvania." ]	6	pics	“Moral Map of North America” USA, 1854... it sometimes gets lost that we have come a long way as a country and people.
http://i.imgur.com/GsuQAQE.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpkog/president_obama_giving_a_lecture_on_civil_rights/	[ "It looks like this post is about US Politics. Various methods of filtering out content relating to US Politics can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/wiki/v2/resources/filter/politics).\n\nI am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pics) if you have any questions or concerns.", "This is just a pic of former President Obama eating a hot dog. He's quite a down-to-earth American.", "okay guys we get it, you hate the post on the front page. can we stop clogging up the subreddit with shitposts now?" ]	3	pics	President Obama giving a lecture on Civil Rights during his last term in office.
https://i.redd.it/r9wct8mdpca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpl4t/always_make_sure_you_have_a_poop_guardian/	[ "Wow. He can hear everything ", "Soft and absorbent.", "Poop familiar." ]	3	pics	Always make sure you have a poop guardian
https://i.imgur.com/kgQqzz4.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpljl/two_face_kitty/	[ "Light and darkness ", "Janus. ", "Harvey Dent", "I hope that cat is named Slade", "For England James?\n\nNo. For me.", "[found the other half!](https://goo.gl/images/q7QWAb) " ]	6	pics	Two face kitty.
https://i.imgur.com/1Eq2UYj.png	/r/pics/comments/7qpnon/can_you_guess_who_this_is/	[ "Patrick Stewart", "I don't have to guess.\n\nMake it so.", "professuh ", "Jean Luc Picard ", "If this doesn't put a smile on your face I don't know what will; https://youtu.be/g3rFNbSKpEE", "Where the hell is this from! He looks fantastic! ", "Sir Patrick Stewart!", "Glad you asked. [Here he is in the late 70's](https://youtu.be/2hulHTH-3bc) discussing playing Enobarbus.", "You have to be a real man to just fire off bald on the top and big hair everywhere else. ", "It’s Patrick Stuart wearing makeup to make himself look older. Duh. ", "/u/lazylion_ca, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating the following rule(s):\n\n* Rule IV - Title violates title guidelines.\n\nYour title must not ask for general information or feedback. \n\nYou can read the full information about our title guidelines at /r/pics/w/titles\n\n\n\n\nFor information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/about/rules/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/w/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/lazylion_ca&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qpnon/can_you_guess_who_this_is/?context=10\\))" ]	11	pics	Can you guess who this is?
https://i.redd.it/p62cfgklrca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpnrt/president_obama_on_martin_luther_king_day/	[ "It looks like this post is about US Politics. Various methods of filtering out content relating to US Politics can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/wiki/v2/resources/filter/politics).\n\nI am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pics) if you have any questions or concerns.", "This was already posted by you. https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qofxx/president_obama_on_martin_luther_king_day/", "I think Obama is one class act of a man", "What happend to the misleading march picture of Obama during \"MLK day\" that you posted for karma? ", "But that one didn't get enough upvotes...", "Every year since 1994 MLK Day has been declared a day of service for the US President \"to observe this day with acts of civic work and community service in honor of Dr. King's extraordinary life\", usually doing stuff like Obama is doing here. Today Trump played golf at his private club and then flew back to D.C.", "I may have disagreed with a lot of things Obama did, but he is a good man. Looking back, I feel that I did not appreciate his decency enough when I had the chance.", "I miss him SO much. And more every day. ", "We didn’t deserve this man.", "> Today Trump played golf at his private club and then flew back to DC.\n\nwhere he met with king's daughter and declared the house MLK was born in, a national park. Is that not an acceptable offering the the gods?", "Are either of those things civic work or community service?", "And you should see him walk on water...\n\nThere actually wasn't enough food that day -- but somehow obama was able to feed the entire crowd with one loaf of bread and one box of frozen chicken tenders. ", "calm down -- it's just a publicity photo with mood lighting...", "I'm sorry, what are the rules again? ", "Not just in reference to this photo, but to the man in general. He's a good dude.", "He seems like such a nice guy. He actually cares.", "Blue is so stoked to eat that he doesn't even notice the ex-president. ", "I felt the same with John McCain when I saw a video where a lady was calling Obama evil, he snatched the mic off her and told her that Obama was a nice guy, not evil and they just have conflicting political views.", "1. Be shifty\n\n2. Don't not be shifty", "For the people ", "That's a man who understands that a true leader truly serves.", "What do you do on MLK Day? It's a holiday. Do you volunteer? My guess is sit on your ass and browse Reddit. ", "was this pre organized?\n\nIt's annoying that people are trying to make stuff up to make Trump look bad(eg. the pic on the front page of Obama holding hands)\n\nYou don't need to make him look bad, he does all that on his own.\n\nJust think, one day Americans will teach their kids about the worst President in history\n\nedit- the word in", "The president is supposed to lead.", "> Looking back, I feel that I did not appreciate his decency enough\n\nConsidering the current president, you could probably say this about everyone.", "So were you going to do service if the President did?", "the president is supposed to help congress balance the budget. He is not the moral compass of the nation -- he is a federal employee, a glorified DMV worker, with the nuclear button. ", "also wiretapping is ok ", "I guess it's time to [get schwifty](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1188GO4p1E)", "You're just as much commenting negatively on someone else from behind the safety and comfort of Reddit as the guy you're replying to is... Only difference is they are criticizing the Potus for not upholding tradition and playing golf instead and you're criticizing them for allegedly not following the Potus's example even if he didn't break tradition. \nThe levels of irony are through the roof here.", "> I feel that I did not appreciate his decency enough when I had the chance.\n\nhindsight is 20/20 man, and I am with you 100%", "I'm not from the US, but is it not one of the his tasks to set the right example? If our king were to break his silence during the 2 minutes on the 4th of May that'd be a huge scandal, even though it's otherwise personal preference to join the silence or not (just don't be a dick and talk where others are trying to pay respect).", "the president isn't a king, the idea that he is some national moral example is rather new actually. there is a certain amount of pomp and circumstance gestures that come with the job, but you know -- more excuse to dump on trump...\n\nMLK day wasn't always the sacred religious holiday that its turning into either...", "Shh- that's how we ended up with Christianity. Let's leave that crap in the past. \n\nLet's just be thankful people do nice things for others. ", "John McCain is not a \"good man\"; look at his senate voting record", "That's a fair point and one I happen to agree with (at least with regards to his military actions)", "Damn, I miss my 2nd term voted president. I honestly didn’t think he had the ability as a freshmen congressman the first go around but realized I was wrong in that first term. The guy is a solid human being that was put into a job that is nothing but tough choices, some good, some bad. But damn is he a class act and has really developed into what I hope will hold up to be what a 21st century President should strive to be, a man hoping to advance humanity across ALL lines. Current situation, god damn it what a shithole! Come at me Trumpers, you’re man is a clown in a suit that spews hatred and makes us all look bad.", "Look it’s a leader of men encouraging civilization and civilized behavior.", "[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIjenjANqAk) - For anyone who wants to watch.\n\nIt's a shame that for the most part, this is no longer how politics is and that it seems to have devolved into personal attacks.\n\n", "He's Martin Luther King for one day, meanwhile those kids will be poor everyday. The priest in the background is the real hero, he's there everyday.", "Thanks, Obama!", "Giving food like that for free?\n\nWhat is this, communism?", "He is also the man that killed a lot of people", "So did literally every other president in recent history.", "Might wanna look back one presidency, bub.", "No. Charity is not communism, and I'm not sure why you would think so.", "You could make a religion out of this.\n\nEdit: apparently people have forgotten about that video", "da komrad", "da tovarich", "Thank you, I struggled to find it\n\n I think that's how it should be. I had a friend who worked in a restaurant in Canberra where some of the politicians would dine at. He would say that they all were friendly with each other and leave the politics at the door ", "You should look at how they act, not the implications of what they DO.\n\n/s", "For what? Doubling our debt?", "Looks like reddit suddenly fine with civilian casualties and civil wars when they're done by Obama. ", "So they should all be given same treatment. ", "I too miss his bombings in middle east. ", "That's what his end goal is. ", "No one person could've stopped the full speed freight train that is the US debt in 8 short years.", "Trump is far from the worst presidents of Us. ", "Shouldn't this be titled Former President* ?", "So why we elected him in the first place? Shouldn't we have elected someone who could make things better? ", "Yeah, hes not doing that because the cameras are there", "No. All presidents of the US keep their title.\n\nIf you don't even know that basic fact, don't you think you aren't qualified to speak on other things?", "So? ", "The proper title for Obama is Former President. Donald Trump is the President of United States. ", "Obama stands for division, totally at odds with Martin Luther King Jr's ideals. \"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.\", comes to mind. We can be better than this.", "In my opinion he was by far the best choice in those elections and he did what what good could be done with what he had to work with.\n\nYou can't just stop the US debt from growing. Slowing down the growth of it, or even the acceleration of it can be a tremendous task.", "The president who forced Obamacare on us was the best choice? lol.", "Syria ana Libya certainly didn't. ", "Yes.\n\nObamacare isn't perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. As I said, He did what he could, with what he had.", "If Socialism is what you consider as \"right direction\", then it was indeed a step in right direction. Otherwise, it is a disaster. ", "\"Good man\" who bombed civilians? By that standard we will have to consider Osama Bin Laden as \"good man\" too. ", "I prefer the FSM. ", "He wanted to advance humanity so much that he couldn't stop bombing them. Neither could he stop government from spying on it's own citizens. ", "Socialism is definitely what I consider as the right direction. That being said, I am Danish, so I probably have a ~~less brainwashed~~ different idea of what socialism is.", "Lol you really think your country is socialist? Do you even know what that word means? Look at some real socialist countries. Venezuela, Greece for example. ", "is this an old pic or is his hair color coming back", "As I said, different idea about what socialism is. But no, I don't think Denmark is a fully or close to fully socialist country, but it is a lot more socialist than the US. Why does everything have to be so black and white? You know a country doesn't have to be completely socialist/capitalist, liberal/conservative. As with a diet, it's good to have something from every shelf.\n\nAlso, Greece is socialist in the exact same way Denmark is socialist. And in case you were hinting that socialism is what went wrong in Greece - It wasn't, it was some corrupt politicians lending and spending waaay too much added with other European leaders looking the other way.", "No. It isn't. You're wrong. This has never been the case.", "And how quickly it fell. It's like we've reverted back to Jefferson/Adams/Hamilton but the politicians aren't nearly as smart ", ">Denmark is a fully or close to fully socialist country\n\nRight, because Denmark is a capitalistic country. Full socialism can't stand on it's own, it's eventually collapses.", "Well he's good at faking it, I'll give hime that, what with the media basically kissing his arsehole constantly, not hard to do.", "He's an Arab...\n\nAt which point McCain smashed a globe over her had and screamed, \"KENYAAAAAaaa!\"\n", "Not worth it... look at his post history, he's just a sad troll :/", "I'm saying it about Bush, and I HATED him.", "After that he said, let's shoot four more and take the whole week off.", "Someone fucking ban this loser already. ", "The cameras are there because he's doing it.", "You're mad right, the drone strikes on innocents was genocide. No other word for it. This isn't to say Obama was a decent president in certain aspects, but to heavy handedly brand him a \"good man\" is to be much too biased for historical accuracy.", "Are you fucking daft?", "Oh please ban him! He hurt my feelings!! Thought crime!!!", "I think this comment applies to every post on reddit ever. A very nice one.", "Or you know, the fact that you’re posting irrelevant shit all over other people’s comments just to be a dick. ", "Looking at your post history, all you do is go around and be negative in every sub, must be a wonderful life.", "It's ridiculous how the audience even started to boo McCain for the simple suggestion that Obama is a decent person and nothing they need to be scared off. The political system of the US has weaponized itself and the population. From my outside view I can only shake my head how everything is only black or white. With or against me. I've seen discussions with Americans where the expression of a moderate opinion completly confused them as they couldn't put a person into either group.", "Luckily for blacks President Trump came along and instead of handing them charity meals lowered their unemployment rate giving them hope and dignity. ", "Then what was it? Enlighten us, cite your sources. ", "Did you miss that part about it not being black and white? Denmark is not fully socialist, but there are some socialist things about it, just like there are some socialist things about the US. ", "such a difference between this and our current POSPOTUS", "Whenever I ask myself how the current idiot president got elected I remind myself the country is full of hateful idiots like you. ", "Trump on MLK day\n\nhttp://cdn1.thecomeback.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Screen-Shot-2016-08-01-at-10.57.22-PM-511x356.png", "Will never understand how you can be downvoted for pointing out a guy killed hundreds of civilians on foreign soil. We light up buildings in the West when foreigners kill several of our own.\n\nThey’re not saying that the current president is better, or that Obama’s didn’t do any good. Just pointing out the fact that killing innocents is one of the most abhorrent crimes there is, and no number of basketball court and cafeteria press shoots will tip the moral scale toward decency.", "With a passive aggressive username like 'prove me wrong' what do you expect? \n\nHe already has all the answers, and the dare to prove him wrong is in fact a way for us normies to embarass ourselves in trying. ", "Lol you're an idiot.", "The highest number I could find is about 800: https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-01-17/obamas-covert-drone-war-in-numbers-ten-times-more-strikes-than-bush\n\nNot a good thing, but let’s not cheapen the meaning of genocide, that is a gross exaggeration. ", "John McCain wasn't just a decent guy, he was a badass. Motherfucker got blown up by a missile and kept on truckin.", "For the record, you’re both right. Trump might have made a national park, which is a nice thing to do, of course, but he did it in lieu of the civic work, which is what was expected of him. No one really asked him to make the house a park. ", "Volunteering for one day doesn't make up for 8 years of bad policy, unless you're a liberal.", "Yes, they are. They're all over this thread to fight as hard as they can to make sure everyone knows how goddamn stupid and generally uninformed they are.\n\nIt's just that looking uneducated is a badge of honor for these trumplestiltksins.", "800 people by itself doesn't \"cheapen\" the meaning of the word. President Obama oversaw genocide in his term of office. \n\n\"Genocide- the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.\"\n\nDon't side with the power in American Politics man, the system we're currently in twists even the most virtuous of men in to monsterous war-lords.\n", "God damn he is the man!", "Give us an example then.", "I disagree with a lot if McCain view, but at least he's competent at being a decent person.", "> this is no longer how politics is and that it seems to have devolved into personal attacks.\n\nAnd it was less than 10 fucking years for that to happen. \n\nIn the same time it takes for a high school graduate to actually get a career oriented entry level job (after college). We've gone from an election debate that was relatively civil, to one where a mad ape would fling shit around as a legit tactic. \n\n[Less than 10 fucking years, holy shit.](https://i.imgur.com/pD3EQ.gif)", "It's funny how much politics divides people isn't it?", "Good job using the first definition google supplied you with. It is widely accepted by genocide scholars that the definition of genocide must include intent to destroy a specific ethnic group or race. To compare drone strikes to the Holocaust, the Armenian Genocide, The Rwandan Genocide or other similar events is ridiculous. Educate yourself. ", "Thats what happens when you get you're entire worldview from either FOX News or CNN. \n\nThere's a lot of brainwashed people in America, and it's honestly really fucking sad. ", "This reply deserves gold.", "As someone who's not American I don't know who wouild be the worst President.\n\nWho is?\n", "I'm sorry if you don't feel the definition contorts to your biased point of view friend, and to retort, the scholars who educate me would disagree with you friend.\nFeel free to PM me.", "I feel like biased coverage is a symptom not the root of it. It's kinda the logical conclusion of the voting system. If there are basicly only two parties to choose from then those two parties will drift further apart from each other to differentiate. So in the end there will only be full packet deals. It's always either or with no middleground. Biased networks just use this to cater to either target group. But they wouldn't exist if the audience wouldn't demand such networks. The parties, the voters and the media becoming more extreme are all part of a circle that fuels itself.", "After reading all your responses in this thread, I'm pretty sure youre retarded.", "I hope so. Watermelon is fucking delicious, as are fried chicken and cornbread. \n\n", "What’s wild is, this is just a photo op. Good on Obama’s for doing it, but it’s just an advertisement.", "Dude I really feel the same. Even if he somehow ISN'T the man he puts out to be, at the very least he makes a wonderful attempt at looking like it. I pretty much disliked Obama the entire way through but in retrospect I wish I would have payed more attention to him. I hope he enjoys the rest of his life and continues to do great things. Politics are a nasty world to get involved in but considering all things while he was president, I'd say he did a mighty fine job. ", "He knows the cameras will be there, don’t be naive.", "\"Socialist\" is a self-ascribed name in the case of Venezuela. In reality the government there is more of an authoritarian oligarchy. Stop using socialism as a swear word, this isn't the 50s anymore. It just makes you sound uninformed.", "I think it actually is. Being president is hard on people. Look at every president on their first day in office and then their 100th. It always looks like they aged 10 years. Obama now that he's out of office actually looks like he enjoys life again.", "My freshman year of college they had similar food on MLK day in the cafeteria.\n\nAll the white people were like \"holy shit this is racist as fuck\"\n\nAll the black people were like \"Fuck yeah, fried chicken!\"", "Did he get their names wrong though? It's part of the uniform.", "I dunno, I've seen family members slowly transform as a direct result of consuming Fox News nightly. My previously sane grandmother became straight up hateful. She lives in a rural area and imagines any city as some distopia running amok with government-funded, socialist, immigrants hellbent on rape and destroying Christianity. That is not an exaggeration. That's how crazy all of this has become. What was once fringe has become mainstream. CNN is certainly biased, but the end result isn't the usual irrational vitriol we have seen rise from Fox and conservative radio. SJWs match neo-cons in irrational bigotry, but their (nonetheless alarming) numbers are still relatively small. The last election was unusual as it openly embraced the insanity as opposed to subtly pandering to it. I have to say, you've got it backwards. Fox News has observably damaged our democracy. ", "Wow, just look at WEAK Barry giving food to brown poors from shithole neighborhoods. I prefer children who are born into families who they inherit millions from so they can play golf on MLK day.", "Oh, did we finally stop doing that? ", "What a gentleman especially compared to the orange slug", "Stereotypes are odd man. On one hand its like racist pandering to serve such a feast, on the other hand, its an awesome fucking dinner and its not culturally out of line. But it comes off as suspect because racists seem to have gotten awfully hung up on that cultural detail.", "Thank God the Trump administration has stopped all the bombing and spying....Oh wait, he upped the efforts on both. ", "You gonna spam this entire thread I suppose? ", "No, he's right.", "Barry Sotoro, err Barak Obama, or whatever he goes by has my vote.", "No. That suggests that it was possible for somebody among the choices to make things better, sometimes the best choice can only slow the bleeding. ", "I miss President Obama.", "That's not gonna lower his handicap. ", "So true. Would've preferred inflicting him on our enemies instead.", "Yes he did so well that his party was continually voted into power to pursue his policy agenda, and after his term was over the country most certainly didn't react by voting in Donald Trump.", "I would like to see what the current president did on MLK day", "After ISIS showed a video decapitating an American, he went and played golf, then complained about the \"optics.\" ", "What does Reddit think about Obama Hezbollah drug traffic cover up? Just curious", "I agree 100% ", "Man, completely agree with you!! The bi-partite system has that effect ", "at least he is doing it", "Difficult choice, Iran nuclear deal or listen to the DEA, the guys who handcuffed Billie Holiday when she was dying, who continue to harass pot smokers etc, etc\n\nOK I will go for the nuke deal", "Doesn't make Obama a good guy. ", "someone has to remember the dead people because of his bombings. Sucks that no liberals care about them. ", "Hell I've been feeling the same thing about Romney. Hell I saw a video of GW Bush talking about the mother that was protesting him and even he sounded sane and eloquent. \n\nYes, Bush sounded eloquent. I said those words. ", "He certainly didn't. He was fine with it.", "And he could have done that anywhere. He picked his golf course. ", "Take two for r/planetoftheatheists. And this has already been posted today. You're too late. \n\nPropaganda never sleeps. https://i.redd.it/bps0a86ljca01.jpg", "and thats what america used to be like. ", "Not saying it does. Saying it's dumb and hypocritical to blast Obama when we are currently increasing the bombing that started and has continued since the Bush era. \n\nEdit: Check this guy's post history. https://www.reddit.com/r/CringeAnarchy/comments/7qhcor/neat/dspi1py/?context=0", "Are you a fucking moron. \n\nAny Dane has a good knowledge of socialism. And oddly they still continue to rank as some of the happiest people in the world. ", "And OP is the same dumbass who posted the false narrative photo. Sad. \n\nEdit: https://i.redd.it/bps0a86ljca01.jpg", "How many times are you going to repeat this, and how many times are you going to ignore the points I made on your other comments? ", "He did what he believed was right, all presidents make mistakes, and he himself as admitted thats as his biggest. Wait until history views trumpanzee and his trumpets through the lens of time. People like you will be compared to citizens of Germany in 1932.", "I'm going to go with yes. ", "yeah, but sweet, sweet karma yo!", "I am sure he believed bombing civilians was right, but that doesn't make his mistakes redeemable. People fucking lost their children and families. \n\nI didn't know German people in 1932 were opposed of killing civilians, which is \"people like me\" believe is wrong.", "STFU with you're fake ethics bullshit. You know I can see all that terrible racist shit in your post history right? Go fuck yourself. ", "After watching the interview with letterman, the Obama we see in this picture and hear about is completely real. \n\nHe tells some really great stories about family and caring for others that makes me believe he’s the great man we’ve come to know. ", "If you actually believe he believed bombing civilians was right, you are sick, and beyond help. Continue oversimplifying a complex issue.", "David Letterman just did an interview with him, on his new show for Netflix... really worth watching.", "Gentlemen don't bomb civilians in proxy wars. ", "I too miss his bombings in middle east.", "If anyone is interested, he's volunteering for So Others May Eat (SOME) in DC, which is an awesome charity. \n\nIn addition to feeding hungry people, they provide things like affordable housing, addiction counseling, and job training programs for the poor and homeless to help break the cycle. ", "You have a weird definition of 'worst'. Opinions aside, what did Obama do so badly that no other president ever did worse? At least he tried to give the US proper healthcare insurance, I mean, that's gotta count for something, right?", "My comments make Obama's bombings justificable? I'm not the one who bombed civilians.", "I'm not going to engage in your pretend ethics. It's already embarrassing enough that I've been responding to a 13 year old edgelord. ", "Nope just makes you a racist. So you can be right about the morality about civilians and military strikes, but you can also be a horrible human being not only for your blatant whataboutism but for your obvious racism. Makes it seem like you have an issue with Obama for some other reason considering what you are mad about didn’t start or start with him.\n\nBut please inform us why your racism doesn’t matter here.", "Such a weak president, spending time with the people. Good thing our new one is brave and strong and plays golf all day. /s", ">No one saying it does. \n\nThe comment I replied to is saying so. And so are many democrats.\n\nOh don't bother. My comment histoty doesn't mean Obama is somehow a good person.", "That is a well thought out and respectably presented argument, one can only marvel at the amount of decency you have. You are a true example to your peers, a glorious beacon of light in the darkness that is political discussion these days. I, Sir, commend you for your bravery to speak out in times when others choose to remain silent. \nThis injustice shall not stay hidden, thanks to you.", "Huh? Obviously the pension / retirement plan for an ex-president isn't so great after all. He looks right in a smock and cap though.", "BHO is no different from any back alley, bare knuckled, brawling politician from Chicago, as corrupt as any that have gone before. He just used a cloak of civility. He weaponized the DOJ, the IRS, Homeland, and just about any and every other Federal department to go after conservatives and Republicans. A nice guy? Not really.", "I disagree, heavily. Obama backs up his words with action. McCain instead denounces the evil the Republicans are doing yet votes in alignment with them. His actions do not back up his words. McCain is a coward.", "ex-president", "Then we've never had a gentleman wartime president.", "> So why we elected him in the first place? Shouldn't we have elected someone who could make things better?\n\nYES, exactly, this is what the whole world has been telling you guys all along...Trump is as dumb as a rock, you can not expect somebody like him to get anything decent done. I am glad you are coming around to the idea.", "I think you need to go outside more.", "Gotta get them golds", "Well he certainly didn't mind bombing them. What he could understand about people losing their families by a bomb?", "I get that you and Obama don't care about weather civilians live or die in middle east, but some people do. ", "John Adams shat the bed. I love the guy, but he’s in traction\nPoor Alexander Hamilton? He is missing in action\n", "He should have been more like the current president: Make no statement, go golfing, call any criticism of these decisions \"fake news\", tweet picture of MacDonald's meal. ", "I for one despised Obama as a president...but he is a damn fine human being.", "Username checks out...", "Not you of course, otherwise I'd see where you were criticizing Trump for increasing it. Once again, fuck off you racist piece of shit. ", "Because this post isn't about me. This post is praising a man who bombed civilians and suffered no consequences. ", "Is this thread about bombing?", "A Monday. ", "Instead he just started bombing civilians. ", "True. ", "Don't forget grape drank", "I heard he called in and ordered $64,000 worth of hot dogs and saved the day ", "Such a good president, bombing the shit out of innocent civilians. But that's just fine, he's good guy because he talks nice. ", "MY FIRST 100% OBAMA FREE YEAR. YAY :) ", "More than a good man, an anti soviet guy taking his army on the road to peace - \n\nhttp://static3.businessinsider.com/image/52a1c37869bedd476f5aaefd-960/independent-1993%20(1)-1.jpeg\n\nCIA at work.", "now pardon my ignorance (I am not from America).\n\nBut what exactly did Luther King do? did he die for black peoples sin or something?", "Oh please keep defending a guy who bombed innocent people, that makes you better than me.", "He's by far the worst president of my lifetime. And since when was \"not the worst\" an acceptable metric to compare Presidents of the United States?", "did she say he's an Arab? lol good god. ", "This thread is about praising a war criminal who pretends to be a good guy. ", "Aren't national parks becoming a pay to enter thing this year too...", "can we have uncle barack back please?", "> that makes you better than me.\n\nNope, your comment history does that. \n\nI don't often actually look up peoples post history, but HOLY FUCK you are a piece of shit. My mousewheel didn't even turn a full circle before I arrived at you slinging the n-word.\n\nI thought you were a troll, but you are just a pathetic racist, welp.", "Crazy because I see a president handing out food on MLK day. Can you show me where in the picture the praise is? \n\nYou claim this is about the civilians and yet you are in countless replies defending the mention of trump and parroting T_D whatabout points all over the place.\n\nWho is someone you praise?", "Thing is, I do think Obama failed by accepting the amount of collateral damage done by droning. Extremism has spread throughout the Middle East due to the destabilization efforts set in place by the Iraq war, and thus the war has spread elsewhere. I also think you're exploiting those dead people that you couldn't give a fuck about (per your own comments as Libya is African after all ) for a lazy political jab. You're a fucking moronic Donald supporter, what else could we expect. The entire world is watching you and your kind and has collectively agreed you folks are morons. How does that feel? ", "Healthcare surely would have devastated ISIS -.-", "> My comment histoty doesn't mean Obama is somehow a good person.\n\nNope, just that you are a bad one. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯", "And that's the way I used to feel about most Republicans. I could disagree with their politics, but I never felt like they were horrible human beings. I didn't like Reagan or Romney or Bush - but I wasn't totally afraid of them.", "cough* he lost the popular vote cough", "Nice and sweet and non threatening candidates who do t criticize their opponents get a lot of praise. \n\nNot a lot of votes, but a lot of praise. ", "if it wasnt for the 8 years of his administration, these kids probably wouldnt have to go to a soup kitchen.", "So I guess now suddenly brown lives matter when they are taken by a black person? Dude, racism is weird, how do you keep up?", "guess that makes up for the 2 million acres he removed from national park status in Utah. \n\nDonald J. Trump✔\n@realDonaldTrump\nCan you believe that,with all of the problems and difficulties facing the U.S., President Obama spent the day playing golf.Worse than Carter\n7:03 PM - Oct 13, 2014", "People like you believe opposing the killing of citizens is wrong?", "MLK is basically the face of the US Civil rights movement. There are many other leaders who could be in there and often times you'll see MLK not with just his own face but other rights leaders like Malcolm X. King gets a day because he's the most acceptable and he was a pretty awesome dude. ", "Politicians are like the professional versions of those people on YouTube who go around filming themselves giving McDonalds and inspiring speeches to homeless people. Everything is planned and never seems genuine. \n\n", "Stealing food from a child? How low can this guy get?! /s", "The real bad thing is that you can't even make that argument for Trump.\n\nHe's the 7 deadly sins all rolled into one.", "He did make things better. The economy is doing very well now and unemployment is about as low as it can be.", "Do you know what a precedent is?", "Los Pollos Hermanos!", "I'm a conservative, and I didn't support many of Obama's political decisions, but the dude really loves his country and his actions reflect that. I have no doubt he'd be a great guy to grab lunch and have a conversation with. He leads by example.\n\nUnfortunately, I can't see Trump ever doing this after he's out of office. Character transcends policy, I think.", "He absolutely destroyed race relations in the US and is directly responsible for the anti law enforcement sentiment we have today. Yeah he’s quite the Nobel peace prize winner. ", "Meanwhile, Trump was criticizing Obama for golfing all the time.\n\nYOU CANNOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP", "allegedly from 1994? a 24 year legacy? c'mon...\n\nyou know as well as anybody else it doesn't matter what he does you will criticize it. I don't know when MLK day became some sacred religious experience, where the president must offer up the appropriate gift to please the gods. ", "Well, when you compare his actions to Trump, you really begin to appreciate Obama more", "I guess if it’s inexpensive and the money goes toward nature preservation or something, that’s okay. I kinda doubt it will, though. ", "I guess you don't care about dead brown people because a black guy bombed them?", "In what world bombing civilians is \"civilized behavior\"?", "You aren't wrong but I will never look back at the Bush era with any type of appreciation. Between 9/11, two wars, and the housing crash it was arguable one of the more disastrous US presidencies. That includes the current one.", "Keep crying.", "Please point me in the direction of modern president that didn't. It's not an excuse and I did not like what he did in Libya or Syria. But we have been \"bombing the shit out of innocent civilians\" since WWII. Obama was a objectively nice and I don't recall a moment where he openly insulted, I don't know, lets say an entire continent. ", "So, you stopping to pose for a picture doing good deeds nullifies all your crap stats you put up during your 8 years as president? ", "It hasn't become that. More scrutiny is leveled towards Trump because of his long history of direct and indirect racism. Even a smart racist politician would understand playing your 94th round of golf on MLK day is a stupid idea.", "No, everybody is responsible for their own actions and their own attitudes. What is this? Some kind of Republican reverse psychology to get democrats to preach personal responsibility?", "> long history of direct and indirect racism\n\nmade-up nonsense.\n\nIt's a federal holiday, and he's a federal employee...Oh no! but you cant golf on the fallen lord's birthday!", "Name 5 good things he’s done other than play golf.", "Trump hasn’t bombed anyone?", "Ah, you are just trolling for downvotes. Kinda shitty how many of you there are these days. Reddit used to be for discussion.", "He wasn't a good president, but at least he wasn't a bad person. Now we have a bad president that is also a piece of shit human being, unstable, and has supporters that are literally Nazi's. Did I forget to mention that Russia really really likes him too? That's got to be in there as well.", "Former President Obama\n\nFTFY", "But you saying the n-word is ok?", "Considering you use the n- word, I highly doubt you give a shit about people in the Middle East. \n\nPresidents have to make decisions we are privy to. You don’t know the specifics unless you were actually in the Oval Office. ", "> It's kinda the logical conclusion of the voting system. If there are basicly only two parties to choose from then those two parties will drift further apart from each other to differentiate.\n\nUntil recently, that has not been the case. For most of the past 150 years, the two parties fought over the middle of the field because you could harvest the most votes from the center. Seriously--go look at presidential elections prior to 2000. Blowouts were common because once you got outside of each party's geographical base, the rest of the country went to the more moderate candidate. \n\nWhat's happened is that the Republicans are facing a demographic crisis, and as a result they're now playing the game on the margins. This has polarized one part of the electorate. The other part looks similarly polarized, but only because of the right-wing populism that's emerged from the GOP.", "Trumps not racist. the left calls anyone they don't like a racist.", ">biased coverage is a symptom, not a root\n\n>>I have to say, you've got it backwards. Fox News has observably damaged our democracy. \n\nThey're not saying fox news doesn't result in warping people's views for the worse. They're saying there's a root issue that causes fox to get away with it in the first place. I don't think that they would disagree with what you said, I just think the point of this thread is talking about something different.\n\nThe kind of people you're talking about can still end up like that without even touching mainstream media. And on the flipside many people watch mainstream media and realize it for what it is, not phased by it.\n\nLike, if you rewind the clock and erase Fox/CNN from ever having existed, or even make sure nothing like it ever exists, you won't necessarily be saving the country from naive political perspectives. You'll just be cutting off a branch of a tree that's still gonna live and grow other branches.", "I heard it was $70 to get in per vehicle. I don't have a source just what I heard. And I would be fine with it too for preservation purposes, but I'm fairly certain they can pull some stuff in the national budget for parks.", "Here is a list from Newsweek 5 days ago :https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek.com/trumps-full-list-racist-comments-about-immigrants-muslims-and-others-779061%3famp=1\nNYTimes 2 days ago:https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/15/opinion/leonhardt-trump-racist.html\nHuffington Post in August:https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5991dcabe4b09071f69b9261", "I really don't like McCain's politics, but the man sat in a Vietnamese prison for five-and-a-half years, most of it under torture because he had turned down his captor's offer of early release. The Vietcong realized that his father was an admiral, and thought that it would break the other prisoners if they sent McCain home due to his father's position. (Emphasizing the Vietcong propaganda that the Vietnam War was fought for the rich, etc.) John McCain said that he would only accept release when it was his turn based on order of capture. So he gets a pass from me when he does dumb things like vote for the tax bill. ", "I think the healthcare might be what he is referring to.", "Yeah, trying to make torture easier for the US. The sure fire sign of a decent man. Didn’t know that? Let me refer you to Noam Chomskys newest book titled “Who Runs the World”. Just because a guy golfs doesn’t make him evil or non decent. Educate yourself and don’t rely on the language liberal MSM. 👍🏻", "Let's do charity on the day people expect you to do it. Cliche bullshit. If you really love the people, would do it everyday. Real heroes are the people out there doin this 3 days out of the week regardless of what day it is.", "He said the countries are shit-holes, not the people in those countries. Good comprehension skills there. And those countries are shitty places...that’s why people want to leave them. ", "Good men don't continue needless wars and start new ones. How many children did he order killed? Yemen, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq - ISIS, Syria, all continued if not started and made worse under his watch.\n\nThen he cashed out with the backing of the finance sector he refused to proscecute after 2008. Obama was an Uncle Tom.", "It's so much more than the latest thing my friend. Good comprehension. Also the Earth is flat and Obama was born in Kenya. So we agree on somethings at least. ", "Kept on trucking right through voting against a holiday celebrating Martin Luther King!", "https://www.reddit.com/r/CringeAnarchy/comments/7qavov/black_english_sjw_with_most_chav_accent_possible/dsr9gal/?context=3\n\nyikes", "Bitter much? Because your president doesn't do this? \n\nObama didn't go there thinking \"one photo of me is going to nullify the mistakes I may have made as president...\"\n\nRather, he went there, because he genuinely likes to reach out to people and the community (anyone can see that quality about him). When he first took office, people were a bit taken aback at how much the new president seemed to enjoy interacting with everyday people. \n\nAnd that's a good quality... no?", "https://www.reddit.com/r/CringeAnarchy/comments/7qavov/black_english_sjw_with_most_chav_accent_possible/dsr9gal/?context=3\n\n a very very racist one", "I was going to make a joke at your expense, but then I looked up your history. Now I just feel bad for you. \n\nIt must suck being a Russian Trump troll. I can see by all the posts you made to try to look legit, you’re not having an easy time with it. Gay sex questions, identity issues, depression, etc. \n\nSorry you feel so alone, comrade. But it doesn’t excuse the racism. \n\nhttps://www.reddit.com/r/CringeAnarchy/comments/7qavov/black_english_sjw_with_most_chav_accent_possible/dsr9gal/?context=3\n\nGo cry in your borscht you sad sack of shit. \n", "I don't give a flying fuck that he does these obvious PR photo shoots, the man wanted to bomb Syria and was only stopped because the peoples opposition to his warmongering was overwhelming", "nothing but respect for MY president", "I probably wouldn't have voted for him anyway, but I still felt bad when he got saddled with Palin as a running mate. It seemed like it would have been a lot closer if he had had someone else.", "Fuck that..She called Obama an \"Arab\" as if that was a bad thing, and McCain just let the slur slide", "Food looks bomb af", "McCain was and is a good guy. IT's the GOP machine that forced him to become something else. They found what they wanted him to be in Trump. Now they realize that the whole \"At least he's not a Democrat\" strategy may not have been the best way to go.", "What's his PR for? He's done running...", "Thank you Social Media!", "Yeah. He's the kinda guy who you could never envision as being in a scenario like OPs picture (e.g. helping out at a school/soup kitchen handing plates of food, etc, with a hair net, or like in the photo of the past four Presidents all smiling and talking to each other at an event that involves the four of them, etc.), so naturally there won't be much if any room to argue for someone that displaced from normal human connection.\n\nThat gets me wondering. Donald Trump has to be human I imagine. What are his actual humanlike traits, other than apparently enjoying to go golfing? Like does the guy have a little garden he takes care of and nurtures, or at least a pet rock? ", "The root is capitalism. Or unbridled capitalism if you'd like. Murdoch and Ailes found out they can make a lot of money selling outrage and have dragged the entire news/media landscape with them. Turns out a horrible (for society, great for the political parties) side effect of confirming people's biases while endlessly ramping up the outrage is this warped world view where the people follow what the TV says to a fault and a small number of people can control what we all end up seeing. \n\nAs long as profit is more important than fair/accurate information networks will sell outrage that reinforces people's beliefs. The owners of these companies get richer, the people who consume their media dig in their heels and are simultaneously comforted that they are on the \"right side\" and outraged that \"their enemy\" has done some new outrageous slight against our great nation. \n\nWhen I was born (a month after Murdoch got US citizenship) there were some 90 media companies that controlled the majority of news/media in the county. That number today is 6. This is not going to get better. ", "There are dozens of videos and pics of Trump's MLK day activities in the sub-that-must-not-be-named if you're truly curious.", "I kind of feel like assigning the responsibility for 9/11 to W is overestimating him as a person in general. \n ", "Good points. So racist and evil. #resist", "Dude you should really read this. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/make-believe-maverick-20081016", "You too should read this. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/make-believe-maverick-20081016", "Infallible logic strikes again! Truely one of the great minds of our time.", "Pretty cool and all, but the way they've both looking at that plate makes me think it has magical properties or something. Even the kid in background is staring at it. WTF KIND OF MAGIC IS IN THAT FOOD!?", "He's so classy... compare that to POTUS 45 who spent the day golfin instead.", "You can see Donald Trump at the end of the line.", "Agreed. He was a decent man working within a political system that is inherently toxic, corrupt, and bought-off by corporate interests. Just a cog in a much bigger, broken wheel.", "That's what happens when you spend several years making a Frankenstein that's afraid of something, but then have to deal with its fear of that \"something\" that the mad scientist conjured up.", "He's a politician. He wouldn't have done this if it didn't get him PR. ", "Is this why your account name is an open invitation for you to argue endlessly about nothing? I've seen you get proven wrong several times already but you still won't quit. ", "... For what", "Ooof...$70? Take that, impoverished families who can only afford walks in the park. ", "Hahaha he is still coasting off the Obama presidency which is about to come to an end. ", "Well Trump didnt sell guns to Libya to be used against us like Obama did... so theres that.\n\nI'm not making this up either, this is true, and there is proof.", "At least he wasn't out golfing on MLK day like a certain someone I know who said they wouldn't have time to golf because they were going to be so busy. ", "I feel the exact same way. Class act all the way around. I feel like he’s someone who would listen to what I disagree with him about and he would respect my opinion and try to understand my point of view instead of immediately trying to change my mind. ", "We didn't deserve Obama.", "A certain news story about fancy mustard comes to mind..", "Not saying he is necessarily responsible, but it happened under his watch nonetheless. ", "You are not alone. He carried himself with dignity and respect. Not like the disgraceful human being we have now.\nGet out and vote 2018!", "I wish more Americans acted like this. You can dislike a politician based off of his actions, but still appreciate them as a person and not hate them for not exactly standing for your beliefs. ", "Being effective in endorsing candidates for the 2018 and 2020 elections so Trump doesn't completely destroy his legacy. \"Oh Obama, hes a good man\" instead of \"Wait weren't you the guy who funded ISIS and wanted to get us to go to war with Syria?\"\n\nyeah yeah 'moderate syrian rebels' you know that atleast a portion of the weapons given to them was later passed into the hands of 'extreme syrian rebels'", "And who exactly was making any statements that Obama didn't have any flaws?\n\nFalse equivalence arguments FTW?", "Do you take everything on the internet seriously?", "Well Reddit makes this guy out to be an Angel, so I had to debunk it. I can go on and on but you probably gotta get back to your BLM protest and watch Hilary Clinton videos.", "Numbers don't lie. You judged him to be a good President because he poses for photos shaking hands and smiling, lol. Trump is already putting up impressive numbers. It's also funny that an Obama fan speaks of being bitter. You guys have been so salty since Trump took office lol.", "You're the one name calling, so really, who's the one more filled with hate and anger?", "Creates a premium that poor families cannot afford", "Yeah I was thinking like 5 bucks or something. $70 is absurd", "Yeah, we did. We don't deserve the new one.", "That’s for an annual pass. It’s usually $10-20 for a one time visit.", "He should have bombed you, too.", "You are correct there. Even though I do not like him as a president, I never felt he was an evil or bad person. Cheney on the other hand...ugh.", "Thank you for being honest about that. ", "exactly. We can really only judge people on what they have actually done and their history of making decisions. i don't know enough to have opinion on the man, but I respect him for those actions. So take a look at the people in power now.. What did they do when shit got real..", "He’s moved on to others in this thread. I honesty would love to meet these people in real life, at what point when every time you talk you are proven wrong, do you say maybe I should think before I speak?", "Well that's good to know. I actually like this plan as long as all the money goes to the parks and the rangers.", "They're both right. While Bush signed the original Patriot Act, Obama signed the renewal of it. This was definitely frustrating since he campaigned on the promise of not signing it once its time was up :/", "He was caught lying about Clinton’s emails", "Racist jackass? Definitely. Wrong about civilian drone strikes/bombings? Definitely not.", "I acknowledge this in another comment: \"Thing is, I do think Obama failed by accepting the amount of collateral damage done by droning. Extremism has spread throughout the Middle East due to the destabilization efforts set in place by the Iraq war, and thus the war has spread elsewhere. I also think you're exploiting those dead people that you couldn't give a fuck about (per your own comments as Libya is African after all ) for a lazy political jab. You're a fucking moronic Donald supporter, what else could we expect. The entire world is watching you and your kind and has collectively agreed you folks are morons. How does that feel? \"", "Don't worry, the bombings in the middle east haven't stopped. ", "What? I thought you need to be American to become president of the United States of America", "what are you talking about when you say he used those departments to \"go after conservatives and Republicans\"?", "Well, if that's the worse thing about him they could wrote in a campaign year, McCain must be a formidable person. Most of it is attribuate to himself, so he at least knows he's a flawed man. He's still a decent human being in my eyes, while being a politician. ", "Not disagreeing with any of what you said, I'm just not a fan of trying to downplay how terrible unmanned drone strikes are on civilian populations because this person is an asshole. First and foremost, I'm against ridiculously unnecessary violence. \n\nObama was a warmonger like every other president in the modern era and we shouldn't let history forget this. That's my concern over the fact that the person saying it is a racist idiot. ", "yeah, he's the one responsible for the anti-law enforcement sentiment, and not, you know, all the law enforcement officers shooting people needlessly. Got it.", "Shocking.", "> Trump is already putting up impressive numbers\n\nWhat the fuck does that even mean. What numbers? His approval ratings are abysmal. He lost the popular vote. He's setting a lot of bad records according to the \"numbers\". ", "Not really, no. Being the commander of the most powerful military in the world means that people will die under your command.", "Whereas Trump, in one year, has surpassed the total number of golf trips Obama did in eight.", "Good people do bad things, bad people do good things. The world isn't black and white, dude.", "I'm talking about the actual numbers that count like economy, unemployment, etc.\n\nIt's laughable to me that you speak about the numbers of his approval rating as if someone being liked actually matters lol.", "I really wish we could have a white pride day or the equivalent to MLK day. Which is what MLK day basically is. ", "Trump went golfing and probably let a Haitian illegal immigrant be his caddie. ", "what a real president looks like, folks. ", "You are truly gullible if you think the president has anything to do with the economy in his first year of office. Changes up or down in the economy due to government action or inaction take a few years at best to make a discernible impact on the economy.", "Not disagreeing with you, it's a difficult subject and it's very hard to judge why these things are enacted sometimes. Jimmy Carter is a goddamn good man, it's not an act, I've met him personally and he is among my greatest heroes. Yet the CIA subverted and destroyed Iranian democracy under Carter's watch. I can't understand how that man was swayed into allowing such a thing. Though not as strongly, I can't help but believe Obama was convinced by Kissinger like military figures vs. being an active war monger, nonetheless your point stands. How America has been able to wage war with a dozen countries without congressional approval or much outcry from the public is disturbing. ", "Especially when our currently president spends the same day tweeting insensitive things and golfing.", "Lmao Reddit is ok with a President covering drug traffic just because \"omg obama is so cool! He fist bump!!!\" ", "They knew what they were getting into", "He's not president anymore, get over it ", "> Well Reddit makes this guy out to be an Angel\n\nNo, no it doesn't.", "They have, in fact, increased. Yay!", "Ive been seeing obama posts for the last year now, so yes it fucking does. And theyre all appraisal posts.\n\nEdit: all the downvotes just shows me how many left liberal idiots there are here. Keep em coming.", "I'm just here to upvote this entire thread to boost the algorithm. Great little chat here about some serious shit.", "Reddit use to bash the hell out of Obama when he was first elected. Oh how quick the tables turn...", "44 is the Carter(after his presidency) of our generation", "Actually the woman called Obama an Arab and McCain said that no, he's not an Arab, he's a decent family man.", "Ohhh noooo not the spooky *Red Menace™!", "Taking food from that little kid! Those libtards just wanna take everybody's stuff!! /s", "Dude, come on, lay off the crack pipe. Remember the whole “scandal free” deal a couple months back? Large portions of Reddit worship him. ", "What would you have done? Risked a confrontation in the ME or tried to bring Iran which on paper at least is a more natural ally of the West than a lot of other ME nations into the regular international grouping.\n\nThe Lebanese have always dealt drugs, I lived there in the '70's\n\nI would have thought the best approach to the drug problem would be look at the demand and tackle that.\n\nIf there is a demand, then someone will supply, be it South American cartels, North Koreans and Chinese suppliers or even the good old US corporations like the Sacklers who were responsible for the OxyContin crisis.\n\nAlthough slightly off topic how did you feel about the Reagan Iran contra affair?", "Trump DID do this, however... \n\nhttp://www.washingtonexaminer.com/rand-paul-trump-isnt-prejudiced-against-haiti-because-he-helped-fund-my-medical-mission-trip-there/article/2645894", "I wonder how many murders and robberies were on MLK day by black people/every other race \n\nReally I'd like to know how the \"ghetto\" areas react to this day ", "Two Party politics always ends up going that way. Need more parties.", "You know Obama wants to eat half of that meal. Look at him. He's like \"Gravy too? I'm in!\"", "I've always said this. I hated everything about his policies but I think Bush is a good guy. He obviously seems like he really wants to do right by the people, but he is just pretty damn stupid and clearly easily manipulated. I believe he was essentially a puppet and Cheney was pulling a lot of the strings.", "I like that I'm the only one who has view your comment. I will not downvote it.\n\n\nFirst, Obama did a good job and so did the two guys before him\nI think Obama is getting a lot of praise straight after because of how bad the Trump administration is doing.\n\nIt like going to your favourite restaurant and the chef there is good and the food is adequate but you think he can make better meals. One day he get replaced and you are excited, others who go are not because they want their chef back but you are looming forward to the meal. And then he gives you the worst meal you had in the while. You give him a break, since it's the first day. Then his meals keep getting worse and worse. \n\nThen the last chef seemed amazing to you because of how shit this guy is. This how I assume half of the republican supporters feel", "Literally the entirety of OP's post history is just submissions about how bad Trump is. He's either obsessed or paid.\n\nSuspiciously, a very high amount of his posts end up with a lot of points. Either he deletes the posts that don't get much attention, or it's all part of the manipulation.", "ex-president :(", "The scholars that educated you are wrong lol", "Communists create the best propaganda. ", "Yep. Make people reliant on the state. ", "Kid; \"Thanks Obama.\"\nObama; \"Why you little....... Oh, wait.... You're welcome.\"", "Where was the buffoon in chief..........on the golf course>?", "> anti law enforcement sentiment\n\nFairly sure that was all the shooting-unarmed-civilians, but sure.", "I've always had to pay to enter a national park, this isn't a normal thing?", "> the country\n\n90,000 people in 3 states, but feel free to continue.", "http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/donald-trump-melania-houston-1-rt-jt-170902_4x3_992.jpg", "I love how the guy in the back is eying the plate rather than his former president. ", "Oh idk. I'm just going off of things I heard. Maybe some do already but not all?", "I think it’s an operative account. Reddit is inundated with a shit ton of propagandists on both sides. Just shitty how one of the best subs is now a political soapbox for the left. ", "> And it was less than 10 fucking years for that to happen.\n\nThat was just the final chapter in the long demise.\n \nI remember when Reagan demonized black people, making them caricatures in the political arena. \n\nThen, Lee Atwater made \"liberal\" a pejorative. \n\nNewt Gingrich's slash and burn politics was the nail in the coffin. \n>''Sick.'' ''Traitors.'' ''Bizarre.'' ''Self-serving.'' ''Shallow.'' ''Corrupt.'' ''Pathetic.'' ''Shame.'' The group that urged political candidates to use these epithets has since regretted suggesting the word ''traitors,'' in response to inquiries from the press. But the others were allowed to stand; they appear in a glossary that a conservative Republican group recently mailed to Republican state legislative candidates.\n\n>The group is Gopac, the G.O.P. Political Action Committee. Its general chairman is Representative Newt Gingrich. With the pamphlet, ''Language: A Key Mechanism of Control,'' comes a letter from Mr. Gingrich himself. Its message to candidates: Step up invective. Use words like these to describe opponents. These words work. \n\nLong ago, conservatives and liberals were adherents of opposing political philosophies. The \"other side\" wasn't bad people, but people with bad ideas. \n\nNow, liberals are bad people because of the ideas we hold. ", "So, he didn't overturn the apple cart of the rising economy that started trending early in Obama's presidency... Meh.", "You are kidding right? Don't engage in a discussion until you can argue the merits of your side. Read up on the topic.", "Is the point of this photo that the kid will still be hungry tomorrow, or that it was just free food for everyone day, and Obama touched a plate?", "Why would I be kidding? The phrase \"to go after conservatives and Republicans\" is vague to the extreme. What are you saying - that he sent hit squads after them? Or that he went after conservative policy? Or that he literally just followed them down the street? What are you saying? Why are you reticent to just tell me what you mean?", "This is why 100 years from now people will remember the name Obama and totally forget the sideshow that is Trump.", "I liked McCain politics pre-2008. He seemed to get bullied into walking lock-step with the GOP, hence Sarah “folksy bullshit” Palin as a running mate. \n\nBut I still respect the man. More to the point, I’ll defend him to the alt-right shitheads who call him a traitor. ", "Wipe your mouth. You have Koolaid stains on your lips.", "Agreed, with the policy thing. Even so, he was still our President, and deserving more respect than what I felt he got.\n\nSo far as it goes, I can't remember many instances where we get a new President, and within months people are lamenting not having a previous one around anymore because maybe they weren't that bad after all. Kinda sad, really. Heavy is the head that wears the crown, I guess.", "And now that Trump's president, we got rid of all the soup kitchens!", "oh sure, feed the homeless for 2 years and nobody bats an eye, but the second a former president does it he's seen as a hero.\n\nHe's a hero to me still :'(\n", "\"Yea he got thousands of Americans killed in a pointless war, but at least he didn't say mean things on Twitter!\"", "Except nobody really believes you. Romney was called Hitler when he ran and that guy has probably never even thought of a swear word. \"Oh we weren't serious about calling literally every Republican Hitler, NOW we're super serial guyz!\" ", "Obama admin literally spied on reporters. Why do you guys condone that?", "Potato salad. Spice cake and what was the meat? BBQ chicken? ", "If Trump did this they would yell racism, because he was handing out cornbread and chicken to African American kids on MLK day...it is all how the media spins it... ", "\"oh shit, they got scalloped potatoes!\"", "read a wikipedia article, you lazy fuck", "It would be so much better if they starved to death instead smh.", "Former officials are generally referred to by their highest or most recent title. Obama is President Obama, Hillary is Secretary Clinton, and so on.", "The best part is that he's wrong. His numbers are worse than Obama's.", "His father is Kenyan. That is different from Arab, for people how care about those kinds of things.\n\nEven if you thought he wasn't a US citizen, how does Arab enter the equation?", "/u/N8theGr8\n\nThis took place in 2014 not 2017.\n\nPlease remove for violating R4.", "Since it’s actually a communist/socialist method to make people reliant on the state to secure votes and increase overall political power, I’m not sure these people would be starving without him.", "Indeed, our God, the Invisible Hand of the Free Market, would surely watch out for those children! It is a shame that the sins of those filthy libtards has caused God to turn his merciful visage from them.", "Giving people necessities long term doesn’t help them. People need to suffer to become motivated to strive for more. Subsidies are simply the communists means to controlling other men.", "wikipedia lmao? anyone can edit that shit to paint whatever picture they want.", "oh, i'm sorry i didn't realize that couldn't be done with reddit comments. you're right, randos on reddit are the way to get definitive answers on subjects.", "Reading everyone's comments on even just appreciating President Obama for his character from none supporters gives me all the feels. Thank you all for posting.", "> Giving people necessities long term doesn’t help them. People need to suffer to become motivated to strive for more. \n\nI agree with you. It would be better for those school children to starve and learn to fend for themselves instead of wasting their time studying. While we're at it, we should repeal child labor laws so they can do so legally.\n\n>Subsidies are simply the communists means to controlling other men.\n\nI agree. Feeding poor children is immoral!\n", "Communists always eliminate all nuance. No point in discussion.", "[nod]\n\nThat's right, anyone who wants to feed poor school children is by definition a fucking commie.", "Nobody said that.", "I thought we were talking about the evils of communism and how those depraved commies want to feed poor kids?", "dude like a good majority of your post history is parroting pol ideals. If he's obsessed then so are you - especially because you felt the compulsion to go through his post history.", "That's because you lack the intelligence and cognitive ability to understand that someone can say one thing while doing another. ", "It's not about being right, it's about the feels.\n\n[Obama was the worst president in the history of the United States for prosecuting whistleblowers.](https://www.longislandpress.com/2017/01/14/obamas-legacy-historic-war-on-whistleblowers/)\n\nFacts are facts. I thought he was a much better president than Trump could ever be. Doesn't mean that he didn't lie to the American people about bringing transparency into the government. He did the exact opposite.\n\nNow we have to deal with a government that is used to getting away with murder. Except now, it's with a demagogue in office." ]	419	pics	President Obama on Martin Luther King Day
https://i.redd.it/q3ecaz43sca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpobm/the_face_of_an_ant_as_seen_through_an_electron/	[ "This is what nightmares are made of", "He's a cutie.", "Op's mom", "I have to agree :3", "Instant regret for the day: clicking on this photo while trying to fall asleep. ", "That's my feeling when I look at my reflection when the stubble starts to grow on my face.", "Whoa\n\nHoney I Shrunk The Kids got it wrong, yo", "Cool! Thanks!", "Aw, I think it's actually pretty cute. So little. ", "For the best, really. I'm not sure my childhood count handle Rick Moranis riding... that.", "I can only get so hard!!!", "That's what she said.", "Would you still think it’s cute if something like that was human sized?\n\nIf so: hello", "r/creepy", "When I clicked on the pic I thought to myself, “hmmm...why were they always so much cuter in my head?!” This is the answer. I have be programmed by Disney to believe ants up close we’re super cute. ", "You been stepping on his family for decades and now he's here to fuck your shit up.", "So many chills", "Looks like a mooray eel kinda", "He needs to shave", "It looks like it's done with everyones shit", "Was that ant really cuter though? I mean it was one of the \"good guys\" because it saved the kids from the scorpion but it still had a damn pincer for a mouth. I have trouble calling that cute.", "I think it was cuter and it made cute little sounds that added to its cuteness but it could have just been the halo effect at work that made me think “awww what a cute ant”. ", "Ooh you're right about the sounds. It definitely made cute sounds. The scorpion sounded like a pissed off dragon by comparison.", "Where is the image of this lil' guy sporting a fedora and saying \"m'lady\" when we need it most!?!", "OHMERGERD!!!" ]	25	pics	The face of an Ant, as seen through an electron microscope.
https://i.redd.it/47jj05qotca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpq2w/one_of_the_most_beautiful_pictures_ive_ever_seen/	[ "Eh. ", "Besides the hair ass hand yes ", "Or warehouse by railroad track." ]	4	pics	One of the most beautiful pictures I’ve ever seen.
https://i.redd.it/lscprkuduca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpr46/italian_sculptor_giovanni_strazzas_the_veiled/	[ "This is just straight up showing off.", "And I can barely make an ash tray lol", "That's fucking incredible", "Saw this in person at the Chicago Art Institute and it is absolutely mind-boggling. In less than a minute your brain sees a \"transparent\" veil carved out of stone, then it realizes that's impossible, then it sees it again.... this repeats several times and then the guard tells you they've been closed for 15 minutes.", "Some people just win at life. ", "If I concentrate I can draw a stick figure and you can tell it's supposed to be something. Seeing that someone can do this makes me feel like I drool on myself.", "I wonder what year it was that a chiselling machine programmed with a 3D scan of a veiled woman could carve an even more detailed one.", "Gorgeous", "In Prado there is a similar sculpture of Isabel II veiled. The picture cannot start to render how awesome this looks", "I would love that over my fire mantle.", "So beautiful.. ", "Nah. Antonio Corradini - now THAT guy could show off. http://i.imgur.com/8jMdEhnh.jpg Hard nipples.", "Amazing", "Waa this in Pride and Predudice?", "The earth's crust sits atop the mantle. Good job you did it!", "Rock hard", "Genuinely beautiful. ", "[Francesco Queirolo has entered the game!](https://i.imgur.com/edzLf8t.jpg)", "No hard female nipples? Meh! Meeeeeeehhhh!", "He really should have went with the hard female nipples", "Hear, hear.", "Hey, this is in my city! The sisters don’t really let anyone near it though but in the rare occasion they do it’s a treat", "No, that was the Veiled Vestal Virgin by Raffaele Monti. \n\nI know because I thought the same thing and just looked it up.\n\nThat statue in P&P is just mindblowing.", "wow amazing ", "Me IRL", "Saw a very similar sculpture at the Bonnet House in Fort Lauderdale, FL. It was used as a mantelpiece atop a marble fireplace. Super cool. Guide used a flashlight to show us the angles. ", "Just walk up to the convent and ring the doorbell, dude. That's how I got in.\n\nI mean, I had to wait in the hall for 15 minutes while the sisters finished up morning prayers or teatime or whatever nunly thing they were doing. But they totally let people see it.", "We have [The Veiled Lady](https://collections.artsmia.org/art/12092/veiled-lady-raffaelo-monti) here in Minneapolis. Equally as neat!", "Christiano Ronaldo must be cursing that there was no one like him around in Portugal.", "Oh I was under the impression they didn’t let people see it my bad", "Oh damn\n", "It's part of the sculpture collection at Chatsworth House - I saw it last spring in person and it's glorious! (the Mr Darcy one is in the gift shop)", "How do you know if they’re hard? Maybe they’re soft nipples that only look hard cause they’re carved out of stone", "are they ever going to take the veil off of the statue or...?", "What, I'm pretty sure I saw this at the Grand Palaise in Paris", "[Bernini](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Rape_of_Prosepina_September_2015-3a.jpg) and [Michelangelo](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Michelangelo%27s_Pieta_5450_cropncleaned_edit.jpg) would both like a word...", "Chicago Art Institute would've been almost 15 years ago. May have been a special exhibition. ", "Magnificent ", "that looks so fragile D:", "Real art.", "The artist didn’t “just win,” they dedicated probably decades of their life laboriously pursuing their craft. Believe in yourself, you can do this level shit too if you truly work hard", "Truly amazing.", "A zoomable work that is similar. It's my favorite work at the Minneapolis Institute of Art.\n\nIt's worth zooming in.\n\nhttps://collections.artsmia.org/art/12092/veiled-lady-raffaelo-monti", "WOW! This is amazing. I wonder how long it took to complete?", "Wow! Thanks so much!", ">they dedicated probably decades of their life laboriously pursuing their craft.\n\nTrue \n\n>you can do this level shit too if you truly work hard\n\nMaybe. Hard work is necessary but not sufficient. Some amount of talent is also required. ", "Talent is a meme, at least in my opinion. Some people may seem to be naturally gifted, but I think working hard and having a passion comes easier to them, not the actual craft", "No there is definitely a difference in natural ability. I know people who struggle with math and work harder to comprehend algebra and trigonometry than I do to comprehend higher math. On the other end of the spectrum I went to college with a guy who barely studied and consistently got the top score. He would be sitting on his laptop playing a video game while the rest of us struggled through the homework he had finished long ago. He came to the calculus final exam and bragged that he could get a D on the final and still get an A in the class. ", "Makes sense. It's cold in artist's studios.\n\nMust be something they do to keep the stone extra solid... or something. Fuck. ", "Holy crap, hadn’t seen this one before.", "Where to buy this? This is amazing. Want to buy one. Even a good lookalike " ]	51	pics	Italian sculptor Giovanni Strazza's "The Veiled Virgin".
https://i.redd.it/gbe9vt1dyca01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpvap/this_installation_in_the_art_gallery_of_my_school/	[ "\"Television...Rules the nation (Around the world)\"", "I don't see any actual art. It's a nice bit of technical wankery though.\n\nTechnical wankery is precondition that is usually necessary, but not sufficient, for the creation of art.", "I think It's called \"Whoa, my UHF signals are amazing\"" ]	3	pics	This installation in the art gallery of my school. Don’t know the name though.
https://i.imgur.com/OdhC91k.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpyko/103_floors_above_chicago/	[ "For those curious, there is a ledge that you can walk out on and look down on city on in the Willis Tower\n\nhttp://theskydeck.com\n\nHowever, if you ask anyone in Chicago, we still call it the Sears Tower. ", "I called it the Serious Tower when I was a kid.\n\nThe height still seriously scares the shit out of me.", "You scared doe?", "It's like being Spiderman without even having to kill your uncle!", "My balls got a little extra heavy there for a moment.", "I think I see my dad. \n\nHe's down there somewhere, that son of a bitch.", "I stood up there and it was one of the scariest things in my life but it was really cool to see so much of the city. ", "Was there in October a crazy long wait for such a short time" ]	8	pics	103 floors above Chicago
https://i.redd.it/kdmxisyb2da01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qpzgm/i_think_the_barista_might_fancy_me/	[ "Nope. Just standard latte art", "Let me have this one 😢", "Go for it! ", "Lol ok, as long as you don't go harassing your local overworked underpaid barista that literally everyone hits on all day." ]	4	pics	I think the barista might fancy me...?
https://i.redd.it/csqqi9fv4da01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qq23m/nothing_beats_the_power_and_confidence_of_a_woman/	[ "How do you know she’s powerful and confident?", "You're a terrible yet amusing person all in one.", "The title violates rule 4", "Actually the power and confidence of a man beats that. ", "What about Chris Brown?" ]	6	pics	Nothing beats the power and confidence of a woman.
https://i.imgur.com/NkJKu5f.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qq2xm/sometimes_the_hotel_holding_your_wedding_also_has/	[ "They look like they have interesting stories.", "Wow that's one awkward smile. ", "Must have been a hell of an after party / reception", "Plot twist: all three of those people are attending the fetish ball. ", "I like that dude's cute fuzzy ears!" ]	5	pics	Sometimes the hotel holding your wedding also has a fetish ball booked.
https://i.imgur.com/a3X3hyA.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qq3ce/a_greyhound_bus_was_hijacked_this_weekend_and/	[ "Last time a Greyhound bus looked like that, someone lost their head! (literally) https://globalnews.ca/news/3242308/man-who-beheaded-greyhound-bus-passenger-granted-full-discharge/", "Hijacked or stolen? It would take a severe idiot to hijack a bus. It didn't even work in Speed.", "Hijack. He had a gun and mad everyone move to the back. They literally shut down the highway for a few hours. ", "Yeah.. He was that big of an idiot.", "This happened about 5 minutes down the road from me. Crazy!!" ]	5	pics	A Greyhound Bus was hijacked this weekend and they stopped the hijacker at the Illinois/Wisconsin border on a major highway. My friend snapped this picture from an overpass.
https://i.imgur.com/wAYBXWN.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qq3ht/my_so_has_been_practising_baking_cakes_for_the/	[ "You can really see the 2 years of experience in that top picture", "Wow! Awesome progress. Hope to see more future cakes. ", "He's done quite well!", "My wife went through that phase, too. I gained 100 lbs.", "Good bot ", "She/he has a way to go before they look like the bottom one. " ]	7	pics	My SO has been practising baking cakes for the last two years
https://i.redd.it/cguqehun8da01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qq678/new_family_member_could_use_some_help_with_a_name/	[ "Oscar", "Ember", "Biff Magnum", "If female dusk", "Diogi (pronounced Dee-Oh-Gee) so even if someone tries to spell out dog he'll still know they're talking about him. ", "Male btw", "Rocco", "Luther", "Punk", "Pooba\n", "Doggy McDogFace", "Onyx", "Hugo, Ralph, Robert, Bart, Ian, Anders, Sherlock. ", "Tongues ", "Commander Woofenstien ", "Henry", "Skipper", "Boehner.", "Sandor", "Rowah", "Flynn!!", "Boomer!" ]	24	pics	New family member, could use some help with a name though.
https://i.redd.it/908uqyjv8da01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qq6ek/a_pic_is_worth_a_1000_tweets/	[ "Still not stopping him from sending out those dank tweets ", "This would also work if you photoshop race baiters.", "MLK..... \"please don't mention I like beating white hookers\"", "Eddie Murphy can not silence @The_Donald", "So sad only picture is a cartoon pic so one tweet is worth 10,000 of them. ", "As has already been discussed the last two times this was posted- MLK would probably not have tried to silence Trump, because he explicitly welcomed debate with those he opposed. He felt the best way to root out racism was to bring it into the light and expose it, not silence it. ", "Why do they have to be white hookers?", "sOo000o d33333p #stayWOKE" ]	8	pics	A pic is worth a 1000 tweets
https://i.imgur.com/H6I3m8c.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qq6h2/tonight_i_made_this_tomorrow_i_start_my_last_year/	[ "Thank God you don't go to a real school", "This is beautiful!!!!!", "You call yourself an Engineer? Just look at the condition of that bike. Shameful." ]	3	pics	Tonight I made this. Tomorrow I start my last year in the college of engineering at UIUC.
https://i.imgur.com/LrqSap7.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qq6jn/dude_looks_like_a_psycho_cross_dresser/	[ "More info: [Shackled children found in Perris, California home](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42698562)", "Bad hombres ", "I believe that's your accomplice in the wood chipper.", "He needs life imprisonment for his haircut alone", "What's really crazy is that 7 were adults (18-29).", "Looks like the psycho part is right at least.", "Yeah weird, waiting for more info on that...they could be really fucked up, no telling what they went through." ]	7	pics	Dude looks like a Psycho cross dresser
https://i.redd.it/2m7ra61o9da01.jpg	/r/pics/comments/7qq76q/spot_the_difference/	[ "Mole", "One was covered by[ Revolting Cocks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgKXfXlMwIk)", "You mean that isnt two pics of Sinead O’Connor?", "Amount of chin", "And the other one is gay?", "Aren't these two pics of Ellen Degeneres?", "yeah he just had nice cocks.", "One of them actually made the young girls cry, and the other just wrote a song about it. ", "Barry Manilow is gay. Rod Stewart isn’t. \n\nI also think Rod Stewart has a much better voice. \n\nRod Stewart has a granddaughter whose father is Academy award winner Benicio del Toro. ", "/u/denimar86, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating the following rule(s):\n\n* Rule I - No pictures with added/superimposed digital elements.\n\n\n\nFor information regarding this and similar issues please see the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/about/rules/) and [title guidelines](/r/pics/w/titles). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/pics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/denimar86&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/7qq76q/spot_the_difference/?context=10\\))" ]	10	pics	Spot the difference

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