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A lot of religious woman vote for him | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss"
] |
>
Don't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him"
] |
>
Broken clock. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated."
] |
>
I think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock."
] |
>
Islam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education"
] |
>
This is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities).
Judeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general).
Are there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.
But it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be."
] |
>
Even the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.
You can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.
Nothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO."
] |
>
Went to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies? | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max."
] |
>
This individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?"
] |
>
He’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.
Think of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country"
] |
>
And as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least). | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable."
] |
>
I don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least)."
] |
>
Exactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here."
] |
>
TL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.
Yes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news"
] |
>
It's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh"
] |
>
This is like watching MTG turn against Boebert. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought."
] |
>
I mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert."
] |
>
Heartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic"
] |
>
You must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point"
] |
>
Turkey and Taliban getting into it....
Looks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know."
] |
>
Afghans aren't Arabs... | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon."
] |
>
Not saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs..."
] |
>
He is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars."
] |
>
what you see is what the media wants you to see. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic."
] |
>
Well, duh. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see."
] |
>
On the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9 | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh."
] |
>
The thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.
Probably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.
He fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.
To this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9"
] |
>
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as "UnIslamic", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.
The Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.
Since the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5 | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general."
] |
>
That’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!” | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5"
] |
>
Every Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”"
] |
>
Let them fight.
^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs) | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education."
] |
>
I was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)"
] |
>
Is it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ? | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background."
] |
>
Depends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?"
] |
>
"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing." | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer."
] |
>
Erdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other "qualities" and it exists only because it suits him currently. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\""
] |
>
Dunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes... | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently."
] |
>
I have this recurring fantasy that all
The genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes..."
] |
>
Dunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they? | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious."
] |
>
It's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?"
] |
>
Seems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about "un-islamic" | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much."
] |
>
Afghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.
Iran, a very "religious" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.
You can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\""
] |
>
You can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.
Poor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them."
] |
>
It's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat.
Yeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms."
] |
>
You're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either."
] |
>
Yeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too."
] |
>
Believe it is Incelmic | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything."
] |
>
Everything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic"
] |
>
It's actually ULTRA Islamic. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale."
] |
>
It's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic."
] |
>
Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives
His very youngest wife one might say. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education."
] |
>
That's offensive. You must stop, or. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say."
] |
>
Is he doing something right for a change? | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or."
] |
>
haram | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?"
] |
>
Erdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam"
] |
>
Why doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy."
] |
>
Not a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal"
] |
>
Who gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait…
That’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education."
] |
>
How many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans? | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing."
] |
>
If it's something you like, it's banned. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?"
] |
>
The Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could "corrupt" their people. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned."
] |
>
They're fun guys. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people."
] |
>
thoughts and prayers
~ Erdogan | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys."
] |
>
That's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan"
] |
>
Yeah, but did he nail this edict to a door? | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up."
] |
>
Erdogan says something normal?
WTF!? | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up.",
">\n\nYeah, but did he nail this edict to a door?"
] |
>
How bad do you have to be when Erdogan is the voice of reason | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up.",
">\n\nYeah, but did he nail this edict to a door?",
">\n\nErdogan says something normal? \nWTF!?"
] |
>
Even though little Tayyip did the right thing here, he is still a pussy | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up.",
">\n\nYeah, but did he nail this edict to a door?",
">\n\nErdogan says something normal? \nWTF!?",
">\n\nHow bad do you have to be when Erdogan is the voice of reason"
] |
>
If you’re catching heat from Erdogan, you know you’ve messed up. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up.",
">\n\nYeah, but did he nail this edict to a door?",
">\n\nErdogan says something normal? \nWTF!?",
">\n\nHow bad do you have to be when Erdogan is the voice of reason",
">\n\nEven though little Tayyip did the right thing here, he is still a pussy"
] |
>
That’s right! The only reason to ban academics is because they have opposing views!
/s | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up.",
">\n\nYeah, but did he nail this edict to a door?",
">\n\nErdogan says something normal? \nWTF!?",
">\n\nHow bad do you have to be when Erdogan is the voice of reason",
">\n\nEven though little Tayyip did the right thing here, he is still a pussy",
">\n\nIf you’re catching heat from Erdogan, you know you’ve messed up."
] |
>
That man gives me whiplash | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up.",
">\n\nYeah, but did he nail this edict to a door?",
">\n\nErdogan says something normal? \nWTF!?",
">\n\nHow bad do you have to be when Erdogan is the voice of reason",
">\n\nEven though little Tayyip did the right thing here, he is still a pussy",
">\n\nIf you’re catching heat from Erdogan, you know you’ve messed up.",
">\n\nThat’s right! The only reason to ban academics is because they have opposing views!\n/s"
] |
>
I mean this is the whole point of Turkey/Erdogan in NATO isn’t it?
They are an intermediary between authoritarian governments and democracies | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up.",
">\n\nYeah, but did he nail this edict to a door?",
">\n\nErdogan says something normal? \nWTF!?",
">\n\nHow bad do you have to be when Erdogan is the voice of reason",
">\n\nEven though little Tayyip did the right thing here, he is still a pussy",
">\n\nIf you’re catching heat from Erdogan, you know you’ve messed up.",
">\n\nThat’s right! The only reason to ban academics is because they have opposing views!\n/s",
">\n\nThat man gives me whiplash"
] |
>
Nobody disagrees more about what is and isn't Islamic than other Islamic people... | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up.",
">\n\nYeah, but did he nail this edict to a door?",
">\n\nErdogan says something normal? \nWTF!?",
">\n\nHow bad do you have to be when Erdogan is the voice of reason",
">\n\nEven though little Tayyip did the right thing here, he is still a pussy",
">\n\nIf you’re catching heat from Erdogan, you know you’ve messed up.",
">\n\nThat’s right! The only reason to ban academics is because they have opposing views!\n/s",
">\n\nThat man gives me whiplash",
">\n\nI mean this is the whole point of Turkey/Erdogan in NATO isn’t it? \nThey are an intermediary between authoritarian governments and democracies"
] |
>
He's one to fucking talk | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up.",
">\n\nYeah, but did he nail this edict to a door?",
">\n\nErdogan says something normal? \nWTF!?",
">\n\nHow bad do you have to be when Erdogan is the voice of reason",
">\n\nEven though little Tayyip did the right thing here, he is still a pussy",
">\n\nIf you’re catching heat from Erdogan, you know you’ve messed up.",
">\n\nThat’s right! The only reason to ban academics is because they have opposing views!\n/s",
">\n\nThat man gives me whiplash",
">\n\nI mean this is the whole point of Turkey/Erdogan in NATO isn’t it? \nThey are an intermediary between authoritarian governments and democracies",
">\n\nNobody disagrees more about what is and isn't Islamic than other Islamic people..."
] |
>
Shots fired! | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up.",
">\n\nYeah, but did he nail this edict to a door?",
">\n\nErdogan says something normal? \nWTF!?",
">\n\nHow bad do you have to be when Erdogan is the voice of reason",
">\n\nEven though little Tayyip did the right thing here, he is still a pussy",
">\n\nIf you’re catching heat from Erdogan, you know you’ve messed up.",
">\n\nThat’s right! The only reason to ban academics is because they have opposing views!\n/s",
">\n\nThat man gives me whiplash",
">\n\nI mean this is the whole point of Turkey/Erdogan in NATO isn’t it? \nThey are an intermediary between authoritarian governments and democracies",
">\n\nNobody disagrees more about what is and isn't Islamic than other Islamic people...",
">\n\nHe's one to fucking talk"
] |
>
$50 says he was jotting it down while condemning them. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up.",
">\n\nYeah, but did he nail this edict to a door?",
">\n\nErdogan says something normal? \nWTF!?",
">\n\nHow bad do you have to be when Erdogan is the voice of reason",
">\n\nEven though little Tayyip did the right thing here, he is still a pussy",
">\n\nIf you’re catching heat from Erdogan, you know you’ve messed up.",
">\n\nThat’s right! The only reason to ban academics is because they have opposing views!\n/s",
">\n\nThat man gives me whiplash",
">\n\nI mean this is the whole point of Turkey/Erdogan in NATO isn’t it? \nThey are an intermediary between authoritarian governments and democracies",
">\n\nNobody disagrees more about what is and isn't Islamic than other Islamic people...",
">\n\nHe's one to fucking talk",
">\n\nShots fired!"
] |
>
Abortions are allowed at any time because of Mothers health in Islam. And before a certain time as there no soul in the child. Pretty interesting | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up.",
">\n\nYeah, but did he nail this edict to a door?",
">\n\nErdogan says something normal? \nWTF!?",
">\n\nHow bad do you have to be when Erdogan is the voice of reason",
">\n\nEven though little Tayyip did the right thing here, he is still a pussy",
">\n\nIf you’re catching heat from Erdogan, you know you’ve messed up.",
">\n\nThat’s right! The only reason to ban academics is because they have opposing views!\n/s",
">\n\nThat man gives me whiplash",
">\n\nI mean this is the whole point of Turkey/Erdogan in NATO isn’t it? \nThey are an intermediary between authoritarian governments and democracies",
">\n\nNobody disagrees more about what is and isn't Islamic than other Islamic people...",
">\n\nHe's one to fucking talk",
">\n\nShots fired!",
">\n\n$50 says he was jotting it down while condemning them."
] |
>
Even if you want to have strict gender roles, women who are educated make better mothers and make more informed healthcare choices for their families and children. These men were all infants at one point and they’re shooting themselves in the foot by having poorly educated mothers. Add to the fact that now women will have difficulty accessing healthcare because they can’t be around male doctors … yikes. Big yikes. | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up.",
">\n\nYeah, but did he nail this edict to a door?",
">\n\nErdogan says something normal? \nWTF!?",
">\n\nHow bad do you have to be when Erdogan is the voice of reason",
">\n\nEven though little Tayyip did the right thing here, he is still a pussy",
">\n\nIf you’re catching heat from Erdogan, you know you’ve messed up.",
">\n\nThat’s right! The only reason to ban academics is because they have opposing views!\n/s",
">\n\nThat man gives me whiplash",
">\n\nI mean this is the whole point of Turkey/Erdogan in NATO isn’t it? \nThey are an intermediary between authoritarian governments and democracies",
">\n\nNobody disagrees more about what is and isn't Islamic than other Islamic people...",
">\n\nHe's one to fucking talk",
">\n\nShots fired!",
">\n\n$50 says he was jotting it down while condemning them.",
">\n\nAbortions are allowed at any time because of Mothers health in Islam. And before a certain time as there no soul in the child. Pretty interesting"
] |
> | [
"Every time I read his name it feels like it’s always in a sentence\nI wouldn’t expect",
">\n\nIt's because he has no ideology. I mean he sort of has one, but it's never consistent. He is the Trump of Turkiye, he could have been a Democrat 20 years ago, and now a Republican. Right now Erdogan is ver nationalistic, but 20 years ago he was spearheading the movement against nationalism. 10 years ago, he wanted to be known as the leader who solved racism against Kurdish people. He just wants and says things that would make himself more powerful. He had his liberal phase, he now has his autocratic phase. He is a fierce capitalist, but promise him a lifetime of leadership and he'll turn his entire power structure into a communist party tomorrow.\nNot giving any education to women is a pretty unpopular take, so it's no surprise he'd be against it.",
">\n\nCalling Erdogan the \"Trump of Turkiye\" is dangerous for a number of reasons, not in the least because Erdogan is much smarter than Trump. He has always been very sly and thoughtful when it comes to Turkey's role on the international stage, careful to do enough to stay in the good graces of everyone, and in doing so, giving himself more wiggle room with his domestic policies despite how they may be perceived, by other members of NATO for example.\nSaudi Arabia and Iran are often cited as the two major Muslim powers battling for dominance, but Erdogan no doubt sees an opportunity for Turkey to take on a greater role in Middle Eastern affairs, what with Iran melting down from the inside-out. Certainly, Turkey would not want to see the Saudis become more powerful.",
">\n\nIran is Persian, not Arab.\nEdit: I am getting down voted because the person I responded to changed Arab to Muslim after I pointed it out, lol",
">\n\nAnd were did he say Iran was Arab?",
">\n\nI see an asterisk so they may have edited their comment from \"Arab\" to \"Muslim\" after having the mistake pointed out",
">\n\nThis guy's an embodiment of RNG.",
">\n\nReal life mad lib",
">\n\nFlip a coin, every time.",
">\n\nErdogan is speed running his telenovela good/evil personality changes.\nOne day,dressed in black with a mustache twirl. Next, dressing in white, rescuing puppies from crocodiles.",
">\n\nThird day, killing crocodiles.",
">\n\nThat's Bob Katter's job",
">\n\nMan Turkey is the most chaotic neutral country ever. \nYou never know what side they will take on some issue. \nIt's like rolling a d20",
">\n\nThats Erdogan for you. He doesn’t believe in anything at all. He’s an opportunist, and a populist, and his stance on anything is subject to change. That being said, saying you should allow women education isn’t very controversial.",
">\n\nI feel like he wants to rebuild the center of Islamic power around Turkey and be his own fashion of Ottoman Sultanate.",
">\n\ntruth to be to told, Islam really needs more moderate people.",
">\n\nThe last, I’d say, two centuries have been very problematic for Islam. Last nail in the coffin was the British involvement in the Middle East during and around WW1.",
">\n\nThat was 100 years ago, at some point they got to realize it's their problem to fix and no historic blaming will do the trick.",
">\n\nSure but stability doesn’t happen so quickly. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East is a quagmire. The area is continually being destabilized by many different forces, internal and external. And radicalization is the natural conclusion for the impoverished and the uneducated, which makes the problems there cyclical.",
">\n\nNot sure why people are surprised. Women are actually free to go to the university in Turkey. Afghanistan Taliban is just hella backwards by every standard.",
">\n\nConsidering the ever more authoritarian government in Turkyie it's just nice to see that not everything is bad.",
">\n\nThis is just the European propaganda machine because they don't like Turkish foreign policy. They call them authoritarian so they can sanction the shit out of them. In Turkey people drink, take drugs, fuck around party like in any other country. Women can do whatever the fuck they want. There's just a big disconnect just like in the US with rural areas and large city populous. Most Conservatives in the US live in rural areas just like in Turkey and support batshit crazy things like pro-life and shit. It's just that nobody really cares about the progressive half of Turkey thanks to media coverage. It'll be funny if the Democrats lose the next election. I expect the same sanctions and media coverage for the US, but that wont happen bc money.",
">\n\nErdogan is called authoritarian, which he is, not the Turkish people. Nothing propaganda about that",
">\n\nDamn, you know you fucked up when erodgan is calling you out lmao.",
">\n\nTaliban ban",
">\n\nThere ain't no ban like a Taliban ban",
">\n\nAin’t no ban like a taliban",
">\n\nTall Taliban ban",
">\n\nThey are Muslim in name only. Similar to the Christian Nationalists. They are only Christian in name. Both groups use only the parts of the respective religions to control people and neither group follows the primary precept of both religions, which is love.",
">\n\nCant have a discussion about Islam without the inevitable \"just like Christians tho!\"",
">\n\nInhuman is a better term",
">\n\nYes, 100%, but.. Taliban don't consider \"inhuman\" a necessarily bad thing. On the other hand, their only claim to legitimacy as a group is being Islamic - hence their ban on opium and boy-rape. So accurately calling this as un-Islamic bears a lot more relevance in this context.",
">\n\nIt's worth noting that while the Taliban call themselves Islamic, their sect, called Wahabi, is not recognized by any other sect of Islam. The ideology of Wahabis violates several major rules of Islam. The largest offense has been their attempts to force Islam on others, which is explicitly forbidden in Islam.\nWahabis believe Muslims have not taken the religion seriously enough, and the two groups seek to destroy each other. Actual Muslims staunchly and violently resist these Wahabi groups. The distinction is critical, and real Muslims hate the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ISIS even more than NATO does.",
">\n\nLet them fight!",
">\n\nYou say that as if average Muslims are also the bad guys here, even though the whole point is that they reject extremism in Islam and are inherently enemies with the terrorist groups who launch violent attacks against everyone",
">\n\nThey “reject extremism” while stoning women for adultery and hanging atheists and everyone who leaves Islam. That’s not rejecting extremism.",
">\n\nYou realise the people who do such things are the wahabbis just mentioned right?",
">\n\nErdogan is really a hit or miss",
">\n\nHe is like 99% miss",
">\n\nBetter than his buds. Putin and Xing are 100% miss",
">\n\nA lot of religious woman vote for him",
">\n\nDon't know much about Islam, but even disregarding morality and international relations it's stupid as fuck. Afghanistan isn't really doing so well it can afford half of its smartest people to remain uneducated.",
">\n\nBroken clock.",
">\n\nI think this is a great example of how many of the things people think are problematic about islam are actually cultural practices and attitudes that coexist with Islam but do not emanate from it. Islam is incredibly pro education",
">\n\nIslam is like extreme Evangelicals in the US. They don’t believe in evolution and are homophobic as can be.",
">\n\nThis is a really reductionist view. For starters there is nothing that contradicts the possibility of evolution in Islam and it is not considered anti-Islamic to believe in, study, or teach evolution as a science. This mirrors the more academically inclined sects of Christianity like Catholicism (esp. Jesuit teachings of Catholicism which support a large number of research universities). \nJudeo-Christian religions as well as the Islamic faiths consider being gay a sin along with many other things. Homophobia is not however limited to religion; most cultures globally and lower socioeconomic groups are broadly culturally conservative which includes being against homosexuality. I don’t know enough about the psychology behind this pattern to explain further but up until the last decade there were vanishingly few places in the globe where being gay did not come with persecution. In this regard, I think the United States can take some pride (no pun intended) in leading the mainstream shift in attitudes to homosexuality (as well as consciousness about social Justice in general). \nAre there groups of Muslims that have enormous overlap with US evangelicals? Of course.\nBut it’s complicated and a human issue more than a religious one IMO.",
">\n\nEven the most westernized or progressive Islamic country turkey dropped the theory of evolution from the curriculum because it is considered unislamic.\nYou can imagine what is going in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia ect.\nNothing you said about homophobia invalidates my initial statement. Islam is homophobic to the max.",
">\n\nWent to school in the gulf - evolution was covered in our syllabus. Why these lies?",
">\n\nThis individual is difficult to read; wonder how hard his mother worked to sort him out only to have this pile of nonsense walk about, leading a country",
">\n\nHe’s really not. He’s trying to establish himself as a voice of Islam and as a power broker for the Middle East. A relatively more women-friendly take on it - even if it would still be seen as regressive in the West - gives him more clout among certain parts of the Turkish and the wider Middle Eastern populations.\nThink of him like a cancer that’s metastasizing. He’s attaching himself to as many (social) organs as he can to make his inevitable rejection of being voted out of office more palatable.",
">\n\nAnd as shitty as he can be, I'd rather have Türkiye as the primary cultural influence on the Middle East than the Saudis or Iran (unless they can topple their theocracy, at least).",
">\n\nI don't know too much about Islam, but what I do know is that a lot of people confuse religion with local customs and culture, which explains many comments here.",
">\n\nExactly, it’s sad when people see something bad happen and blame the religion when they themselves know nothing about it other than what they see on the news",
">\n\nTL;DR: Uninformed redditors who only see things black and white and get all of their opinions from visible headlines.\nYes, you can have a conservative ideology, be not a good person yet still support some humanist ideas. Duh",
">\n\nIt's almost like there are multiple sets of rules Islam is interpreted through. Who would have thought.",
">\n\nThis is like watching MTG turn against Boebert.",
">\n\nI mean.., if you go off of early Islamic history, then yeah, it is un Islamic",
">\n\nHeartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great point",
">\n\nYou must be under a very heavy black propaganda if Erdoğan is the worst person you know.",
">\n\nTurkey and Taliban getting into it....\nLooks like proxy conflict for Arabs and Turks might start in Afghanistan soon.",
">\n\nAfghans aren't Arabs...",
">\n\nNot saying they are, saying the people who are financing the groups for proxy wars.",
">\n\nHe is not wrong, but most of what we see as Islam in modern world is very un-Islamic.",
">\n\nwhat you see is what the media wants you to see.",
">\n\nWell, duh.",
">\n\nOn the Richter scale of ulterior motives, this registers at a 9",
">\n\nThe thing that made Erdoğan so popular in Turkey was his struggle for women's education and employment in the first half of his leadership.\nProbably most of users have no idea but it was forbidden to study or work in state institutions in Turkey until 2010-2011. Half of the women were literally banned from entering universities just because they were hijabi.\nHe fought against the secular/kemalist/nationalist establishment to give hijabi women their rights. His party barely survived a closure threat by this establishment in the judiciary, he resisted against threats from the secular military.\nTo this day, he talks about this issue a lot and uses for consolidating his support from women and conservative people in general.",
">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nTurkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the Taliban's order to ban university and primary education for Afghanistan's women as \"UnIslamic\", promising to follow the issue until it is resolved in a televised speech on Wednesday.\nThe Taliban government last month first decided to suspend university education for women, and later issued an outright ban on education for women.\nSince the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in the summer of 2021, residents, elders and religious leaders in the country and abroad have challenged its claims that restricting education and work for women is permissible in Islam.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: education^#1 Taliban^#2 school^#3 ban^#4 women^#5",
">\n\nThat’s the Taliban motto. “Everything we do is un-Islamic!”",
">\n\nEvery Muslim that has the slightest idea of their religion already knows this but glad he said it to shock a bit the idiots who think Islam is anti-women and anti-education.",
">\n\nLet them fight.\n^(Preferably in a barb-wire arena with spiked clubs)",
">\n\nI was thinking thunder-dome. With spikes of course. And fire, can’t forget that. Maybe laser weapons. And shields. Or just Viking style, out in an open, muddy field. Better yet, blow for blow like the end of Highlander, with the Queen song playing in the background.",
">\n\nIs it me or has Erdogan become slightly more humane lately ?",
">\n\nDepends who you ask in Turkey. Also elections are this summer.",
">\n\n\"Weathervane points in the direction the wind is blowing.\"",
">\n\nErdogan is... Erdogan. A paranoid sultan-wannabe who sees things through his own coloured glasses. That he's in support of education for women, is only a small redeeming quality that is minuscule compared to his other \"qualities\" and it exists only because it suits him currently.",
">\n\nDunno why, I feel like deep down he would love to dictate women the way the Taliban do. I just don't trust his bullshit, feel like it's appeasement for votes...",
">\n\nI have this recurring fantasy that all\nThe genders in that country get flipped, and the men now have to live the way they’ve been treating women. It would be glorious.",
">\n\nDunno why you got downvoted for that, I would like to see this in any country that suppresses women. Maybe it's because I don't think Turks are too bad towards their women are they?",
">\n\nIt's a mixed bag, go east and you have wife beaters (mostly) go to big cities and it's a much Western outlook with hints of sexism still lurking. It wouldn't be the end of the world but you'd probably chose to be a woman somewhere else if you had the chance. I'd say probably better than Japan, IF that's saying much.",
">\n\nSeems pretty in line with what you hear in modern day islam. Abhorrent yes, but idk about \"un-islamic\"",
">\n\nAfghanistan is about the only Islamic country where education for women is banned.\nIran, a very \"religious\" state, has more female students in engineering fields than any other country in the world.\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.",
">\n\n\nYou can have your gripes about Islam, this is not one of them.\n\nPoor record on human rights for women is kind of a recurring theme ain't it, even if it takes different forms.",
">\n\nIt's not much different from what Christian extremists want. Main steam conservatives are pondering about how to get more women married young so they can be subservient to their husbands instead of going out and getting an education and learning enough about the world to vote Democrat. \nYeah Christian won't ask their women to wear a price of cloth over their head but try and get a 10 year old an abortion so they won't have to carry their rapist's baby or to ban child marriage in certain states and you'll see women's rights are high on the priority of Christian values either.",
">\n\nYou're using whataboutisms. No one's not saying Christianity is bad either, Islam's pretty shit too.",
">\n\nYeah well, the Taliban would probably say that educating women is un-islamic. When the foundation of your world view is vague bullshit fantasies then you can justify everything with anything.",
">\n\nBelieve it is Incelmic",
">\n\nEverything is un-islamic. It's a fiction. Women's education has exactly nothing to do with any fairy tale.",
">\n\nIt's actually ULTRA Islamic.",
">\n\nIt's not. Aisha, one of Mohammed's wives, was a scholar. She shaped early Islam by giving lectures and writing Islamic laws. She's roughly the equivalent of the Virgin Mary in Christianity, except she had the impact comparable to Paul. It's findamentally anti-Islamic to deprive women of an education.",
">\n\n\nAisha, one of Mohammed's wives\n\nHis very youngest wife one might say.",
">\n\nThat's offensive. You must stop, or.",
">\n\nIs he doing something right for a change?",
">\n\nharam",
">\n\nErdogan is simultaneously the worst good guy and the best bad guy.",
">\n\nWhy doesn’t the Taliban, just come out verbally and say it, “We hate women”, yet they wouldn’t be here, if the woman didn’t push you out of her birth canal",
">\n\nNot a RTE supporter but if I'm not mistaken he sent his daughter to US for university education.",
">\n\nWho gives a shit what religion thinks about it? It should be a fundamental right to educate oneself. Oh wait… \nThat’s exactly what they want, an ignorant society that will accept their brainwashing.",
">\n\nHow many things have they banned? Like have they tallied Taliban bans?",
">\n\nIf it's something you like, it's banned.",
">\n\nThe Taliban is also in favor of banning music, as they believe western art could \"corrupt\" their people.",
">\n\nThey're fun guys.",
">\n\nthoughts and prayers\n~ Erdogan",
">\n\nThat's religion in a nutshell to you. Anyone can say anything. It's all made up.",
">\n\nYeah, but did he nail this edict to a door?",
">\n\nErdogan says something normal? \nWTF!?",
">\n\nHow bad do you have to be when Erdogan is the voice of reason",
">\n\nEven though little Tayyip did the right thing here, he is still a pussy",
">\n\nIf you’re catching heat from Erdogan, you know you’ve messed up.",
">\n\nThat’s right! The only reason to ban academics is because they have opposing views!\n/s",
">\n\nThat man gives me whiplash",
">\n\nI mean this is the whole point of Turkey/Erdogan in NATO isn’t it? \nThey are an intermediary between authoritarian governments and democracies",
">\n\nNobody disagrees more about what is and isn't Islamic than other Islamic people...",
">\n\nHe's one to fucking talk",
">\n\nShots fired!",
">\n\n$50 says he was jotting it down while condemning them.",
">\n\nAbortions are allowed at any time because of Mothers health in Islam. And before a certain time as there no soul in the child. Pretty interesting",
">\n\nEven if you want to have strict gender roles, women who are educated make better mothers and make more informed healthcare choices for their families and children. These men were all infants at one point and they’re shooting themselves in the foot by having poorly educated mothers. Add to the fact that now women will have difficulty accessing healthcare because they can’t be around male doctors … yikes. Big yikes."
] |
This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.
Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"
(For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, please read this page.)
Rule-breaking posts may result in bans. | [] |
>
One day you walk in to see them and realize that they're no longer just older than you.
They're old, and time is flying. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans."
] |
>
He started out as a dad, and became more and more human in the last forty-three years. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nOne day you walk in to see them and realize that they're no longer just older than you.\nThey're old, and time is flying."
] |
>
I can’t remember anything from my childhood, other than myself getting older. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nOne day you walk in to see them and realize that they're no longer just older than you.\nThey're old, and time is flying.",
">\n\nHe started out as a dad, and became more and more human in the last forty-three years."
] |
>
My parents never grew. They devolved.
We were once a successful, happy family with a business and plenty of money to be comfortable. Then my mom started being a cunt about the way my dad was running the business, cheated on him, and left. Dad drank the business away and mom became an insufferable narcissist that I don't talk to anymore. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nOne day you walk in to see them and realize that they're no longer just older than you.\nThey're old, and time is flying.",
">\n\nHe started out as a dad, and became more and more human in the last forty-three years.",
">\n\nI can’t remember anything from my childhood, other than myself getting older."
] |
>
Oddly I think the same of mine.
They had a good life together though weren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, decided kids would be a good idea (I feel my mum was much more interested in this than my dad) and proceeded to get divorced when myself and twin brother turned thirteen.
Mum (who we feel was the only one wanting children) then moves 400 miles from the east of Scotland to the west of Wales and we barely saw her after that... She wasn't a great mum prior to this but now i have my own life and opinions I see how entitled she feels to affection purely from the fact that - "I'M YOUR MOTHER!!!" - something that has been screamed at me many a time. Crazy bitch. Respect is earned, not demanded | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nOne day you walk in to see them and realize that they're no longer just older than you.\nThey're old, and time is flying.",
">\n\nHe started out as a dad, and became more and more human in the last forty-three years.",
">\n\nI can’t remember anything from my childhood, other than myself getting older.",
">\n\nMy parents never grew. They devolved.\nWe were once a successful, happy family with a business and plenty of money to be comfortable. Then my mom started being a cunt about the way my dad was running the business, cheated on him, and left. Dad drank the business away and mom became an insufferable narcissist that I don't talk to anymore."
] |
>
I just see negative comments about people's parents. I saw my parents evolve to more compassionate people, really giving a lot for the people around them, that are in need. I can only hope to be so strong, compassionate and driven when i am their age. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nOne day you walk in to see them and realize that they're no longer just older than you.\nThey're old, and time is flying.",
">\n\nHe started out as a dad, and became more and more human in the last forty-three years.",
">\n\nI can’t remember anything from my childhood, other than myself getting older.",
">\n\nMy parents never grew. They devolved.\nWe were once a successful, happy family with a business and plenty of money to be comfortable. Then my mom started being a cunt about the way my dad was running the business, cheated on him, and left. Dad drank the business away and mom became an insufferable narcissist that I don't talk to anymore.",
">\n\nOddly I think the same of mine.\nThey had a good life together though weren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, decided kids would be a good idea (I feel my mum was much more interested in this than my dad) and proceeded to get divorced when myself and twin brother turned thirteen.\nMum (who we feel was the only one wanting children) then moves 400 miles from the east of Scotland to the west of Wales and we barely saw her after that... She wasn't a great mum prior to this but now i have my own life and opinions I see how entitled she feels to affection purely from the fact that - \"I'M YOUR MOTHER!!!\" - something that has been screamed at me many a time. Crazy bitch. Respect is earned, not demanded"
] |
>
but now i realize that they weren't growing to the better, more like downgrading in several aspects, and it upsets me
even now i end up hiding from them in video games, or mobile games in bluestacks, because i don't want to talk to them or hear them talk about ridiculous stuff they saw on TV.. i know it's bad of me but i just can't listen to them repeat the lies and i can't explain to them that it's lies because they don't listen to me | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nOne day you walk in to see them and realize that they're no longer just older than you.\nThey're old, and time is flying.",
">\n\nHe started out as a dad, and became more and more human in the last forty-three years.",
">\n\nI can’t remember anything from my childhood, other than myself getting older.",
">\n\nMy parents never grew. They devolved.\nWe were once a successful, happy family with a business and plenty of money to be comfortable. Then my mom started being a cunt about the way my dad was running the business, cheated on him, and left. Dad drank the business away and mom became an insufferable narcissist that I don't talk to anymore.",
">\n\nOddly I think the same of mine.\nThey had a good life together though weren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, decided kids would be a good idea (I feel my mum was much more interested in this than my dad) and proceeded to get divorced when myself and twin brother turned thirteen.\nMum (who we feel was the only one wanting children) then moves 400 miles from the east of Scotland to the west of Wales and we barely saw her after that... She wasn't a great mum prior to this but now i have my own life and opinions I see how entitled she feels to affection purely from the fact that - \"I'M YOUR MOTHER!!!\" - something that has been screamed at me many a time. Crazy bitch. Respect is earned, not demanded",
">\n\nI just see negative comments about people's parents. I saw my parents evolve to more compassionate people, really giving a lot for the people around them, that are in need. I can only hope to be so strong, compassionate and driven when i am their age."
] |
>
I feel you. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nOne day you walk in to see them and realize that they're no longer just older than you.\nThey're old, and time is flying.",
">\n\nHe started out as a dad, and became more and more human in the last forty-three years.",
">\n\nI can’t remember anything from my childhood, other than myself getting older.",
">\n\nMy parents never grew. They devolved.\nWe were once a successful, happy family with a business and plenty of money to be comfortable. Then my mom started being a cunt about the way my dad was running the business, cheated on him, and left. Dad drank the business away and mom became an insufferable narcissist that I don't talk to anymore.",
">\n\nOddly I think the same of mine.\nThey had a good life together though weren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, decided kids would be a good idea (I feel my mum was much more interested in this than my dad) and proceeded to get divorced when myself and twin brother turned thirteen.\nMum (who we feel was the only one wanting children) then moves 400 miles from the east of Scotland to the west of Wales and we barely saw her after that... She wasn't a great mum prior to this but now i have my own life and opinions I see how entitled she feels to affection purely from the fact that - \"I'M YOUR MOTHER!!!\" - something that has been screamed at me many a time. Crazy bitch. Respect is earned, not demanded",
">\n\nI just see negative comments about people's parents. I saw my parents evolve to more compassionate people, really giving a lot for the people around them, that are in need. I can only hope to be so strong, compassionate and driven when i am their age.",
">\n\nbut now i realize that they weren't growing to the better, more like downgrading in several aspects, and it upsets me\neven now i end up hiding from them in video games, or mobile games in bluestacks, because i don't want to talk to them or hear them talk about ridiculous stuff they saw on TV.. i know it's bad of me but i just can't listen to them repeat the lies and i can't explain to them that it's lies because they don't listen to me"
] |
>
Looking back on my childhood, it’s insane for me to think about my parents having two kids right out of high school.. I’m 25 and dove into parenthood with my fiancée, who has a 7 year old (4 when we started seeing each other). I have learned and grown so much in the last 3 years.
We also have an 11 m/o together, and nothing could’ve prepare me for taking care of a baby, but again, I’ve learned and grown, and I wouldn’t have it any other way now. Being a dad is cool | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nOne day you walk in to see them and realize that they're no longer just older than you.\nThey're old, and time is flying.",
">\n\nHe started out as a dad, and became more and more human in the last forty-three years.",
">\n\nI can’t remember anything from my childhood, other than myself getting older.",
">\n\nMy parents never grew. They devolved.\nWe were once a successful, happy family with a business and plenty of money to be comfortable. Then my mom started being a cunt about the way my dad was running the business, cheated on him, and left. Dad drank the business away and mom became an insufferable narcissist that I don't talk to anymore.",
">\n\nOddly I think the same of mine.\nThey had a good life together though weren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, decided kids would be a good idea (I feel my mum was much more interested in this than my dad) and proceeded to get divorced when myself and twin brother turned thirteen.\nMum (who we feel was the only one wanting children) then moves 400 miles from the east of Scotland to the west of Wales and we barely saw her after that... She wasn't a great mum prior to this but now i have my own life and opinions I see how entitled she feels to affection purely from the fact that - \"I'M YOUR MOTHER!!!\" - something that has been screamed at me many a time. Crazy bitch. Respect is earned, not demanded",
">\n\nI just see negative comments about people's parents. I saw my parents evolve to more compassionate people, really giving a lot for the people around them, that are in need. I can only hope to be so strong, compassionate and driven when i am their age.",
">\n\nbut now i realize that they weren't growing to the better, more like downgrading in several aspects, and it upsets me\neven now i end up hiding from them in video games, or mobile games in bluestacks, because i don't want to talk to them or hear them talk about ridiculous stuff they saw on TV.. i know it's bad of me but i just can't listen to them repeat the lies and i can't explain to them that it's lies because they don't listen to me",
">\n\nI feel you."
] |
>
Kids are egocentric because all they know is that they exist. As we grow older and understand more of the world around us, and hopefully learn compassion to other people too, that's when we realize others are growing along us. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nOne day you walk in to see them and realize that they're no longer just older than you.\nThey're old, and time is flying.",
">\n\nHe started out as a dad, and became more and more human in the last forty-three years.",
">\n\nI can’t remember anything from my childhood, other than myself getting older.",
">\n\nMy parents never grew. They devolved.\nWe were once a successful, happy family with a business and plenty of money to be comfortable. Then my mom started being a cunt about the way my dad was running the business, cheated on him, and left. Dad drank the business away and mom became an insufferable narcissist that I don't talk to anymore.",
">\n\nOddly I think the same of mine.\nThey had a good life together though weren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, decided kids would be a good idea (I feel my mum was much more interested in this than my dad) and proceeded to get divorced when myself and twin brother turned thirteen.\nMum (who we feel was the only one wanting children) then moves 400 miles from the east of Scotland to the west of Wales and we barely saw her after that... She wasn't a great mum prior to this but now i have my own life and opinions I see how entitled she feels to affection purely from the fact that - \"I'M YOUR MOTHER!!!\" - something that has been screamed at me many a time. Crazy bitch. Respect is earned, not demanded",
">\n\nI just see negative comments about people's parents. I saw my parents evolve to more compassionate people, really giving a lot for the people around them, that are in need. I can only hope to be so strong, compassionate and driven when i am their age.",
">\n\nbut now i realize that they weren't growing to the better, more like downgrading in several aspects, and it upsets me\neven now i end up hiding from them in video games, or mobile games in bluestacks, because i don't want to talk to them or hear them talk about ridiculous stuff they saw on TV.. i know it's bad of me but i just can't listen to them repeat the lies and i can't explain to them that it's lies because they don't listen to me",
">\n\nI feel you.",
">\n\nLooking back on my childhood, it’s insane for me to think about my parents having two kids right out of high school.. I’m 25 and dove into parenthood with my fiancée, who has a 7 year old (4 when we started seeing each other). I have learned and grown so much in the last 3 years.\nWe also have an 11 m/o together, and nothing could’ve prepare me for taking care of a baby, but again, I’ve learned and grown, and I wouldn’t have it any other way now. Being a dad is cool"
] |
>
Yeah, at some point I realized I am older than my parents were when they divorced... They were just kids... | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nOne day you walk in to see them and realize that they're no longer just older than you.\nThey're old, and time is flying.",
">\n\nHe started out as a dad, and became more and more human in the last forty-three years.",
">\n\nI can’t remember anything from my childhood, other than myself getting older.",
">\n\nMy parents never grew. They devolved.\nWe were once a successful, happy family with a business and plenty of money to be comfortable. Then my mom started being a cunt about the way my dad was running the business, cheated on him, and left. Dad drank the business away and mom became an insufferable narcissist that I don't talk to anymore.",
">\n\nOddly I think the same of mine.\nThey had a good life together though weren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, decided kids would be a good idea (I feel my mum was much more interested in this than my dad) and proceeded to get divorced when myself and twin brother turned thirteen.\nMum (who we feel was the only one wanting children) then moves 400 miles from the east of Scotland to the west of Wales and we barely saw her after that... She wasn't a great mum prior to this but now i have my own life and opinions I see how entitled she feels to affection purely from the fact that - \"I'M YOUR MOTHER!!!\" - something that has been screamed at me many a time. Crazy bitch. Respect is earned, not demanded",
">\n\nI just see negative comments about people's parents. I saw my parents evolve to more compassionate people, really giving a lot for the people around them, that are in need. I can only hope to be so strong, compassionate and driven when i am their age.",
">\n\nbut now i realize that they weren't growing to the better, more like downgrading in several aspects, and it upsets me\neven now i end up hiding from them in video games, or mobile games in bluestacks, because i don't want to talk to them or hear them talk about ridiculous stuff they saw on TV.. i know it's bad of me but i just can't listen to them repeat the lies and i can't explain to them that it's lies because they don't listen to me",
">\n\nI feel you.",
">\n\nLooking back on my childhood, it’s insane for me to think about my parents having two kids right out of high school.. I’m 25 and dove into parenthood with my fiancée, who has a 7 year old (4 when we started seeing each other). I have learned and grown so much in the last 3 years.\nWe also have an 11 m/o together, and nothing could’ve prepare me for taking care of a baby, but again, I’ve learned and grown, and I wouldn’t have it any other way now. Being a dad is cool",
">\n\nKids are egocentric because all they know is that they exist. As we grow older and understand more of the world around us, and hopefully learn compassion to other people too, that's when we realize others are growing along us."
] |
>
I am 40 and it is still shocking. I will be broken when my dad dies:/ | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nOne day you walk in to see them and realize that they're no longer just older than you.\nThey're old, and time is flying.",
">\n\nHe started out as a dad, and became more and more human in the last forty-three years.",
">\n\nI can’t remember anything from my childhood, other than myself getting older.",
">\n\nMy parents never grew. They devolved.\nWe were once a successful, happy family with a business and plenty of money to be comfortable. Then my mom started being a cunt about the way my dad was running the business, cheated on him, and left. Dad drank the business away and mom became an insufferable narcissist that I don't talk to anymore.",
">\n\nOddly I think the same of mine.\nThey had a good life together though weren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, decided kids would be a good idea (I feel my mum was much more interested in this than my dad) and proceeded to get divorced when myself and twin brother turned thirteen.\nMum (who we feel was the only one wanting children) then moves 400 miles from the east of Scotland to the west of Wales and we barely saw her after that... She wasn't a great mum prior to this but now i have my own life and opinions I see how entitled she feels to affection purely from the fact that - \"I'M YOUR MOTHER!!!\" - something that has been screamed at me many a time. Crazy bitch. Respect is earned, not demanded",
">\n\nI just see negative comments about people's parents. I saw my parents evolve to more compassionate people, really giving a lot for the people around them, that are in need. I can only hope to be so strong, compassionate and driven when i am their age.",
">\n\nbut now i realize that they weren't growing to the better, more like downgrading in several aspects, and it upsets me\neven now i end up hiding from them in video games, or mobile games in bluestacks, because i don't want to talk to them or hear them talk about ridiculous stuff they saw on TV.. i know it's bad of me but i just can't listen to them repeat the lies and i can't explain to them that it's lies because they don't listen to me",
">\n\nI feel you.",
">\n\nLooking back on my childhood, it’s insane for me to think about my parents having two kids right out of high school.. I’m 25 and dove into parenthood with my fiancée, who has a 7 year old (4 when we started seeing each other). I have learned and grown so much in the last 3 years.\nWe also have an 11 m/o together, and nothing could’ve prepare me for taking care of a baby, but again, I’ve learned and grown, and I wouldn’t have it any other way now. Being a dad is cool",
">\n\nKids are egocentric because all they know is that they exist. As we grow older and understand more of the world around us, and hopefully learn compassion to other people too, that's when we realize others are growing along us.",
">\n\nYeah, at some point I realized I am older than my parents were when they divorced... They were just kids..."
] |
>
I remember the one and only time my mom got drunk in front of me. I was like 14 and she got dropped off and couldn’t make it up the stairs on her own. She was younger that night than I am now and I’m exponentially further along in my life than she was then. Thinking I have my shit together better than either of my parents did until they were in their 50s is odd but also a little comforting. | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nOne day you walk in to see them and realize that they're no longer just older than you.\nThey're old, and time is flying.",
">\n\nHe started out as a dad, and became more and more human in the last forty-three years.",
">\n\nI can’t remember anything from my childhood, other than myself getting older.",
">\n\nMy parents never grew. They devolved.\nWe were once a successful, happy family with a business and plenty of money to be comfortable. Then my mom started being a cunt about the way my dad was running the business, cheated on him, and left. Dad drank the business away and mom became an insufferable narcissist that I don't talk to anymore.",
">\n\nOddly I think the same of mine.\nThey had a good life together though weren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, decided kids would be a good idea (I feel my mum was much more interested in this than my dad) and proceeded to get divorced when myself and twin brother turned thirteen.\nMum (who we feel was the only one wanting children) then moves 400 miles from the east of Scotland to the west of Wales and we barely saw her after that... She wasn't a great mum prior to this but now i have my own life and opinions I see how entitled she feels to affection purely from the fact that - \"I'M YOUR MOTHER!!!\" - something that has been screamed at me many a time. Crazy bitch. Respect is earned, not demanded",
">\n\nI just see negative comments about people's parents. I saw my parents evolve to more compassionate people, really giving a lot for the people around them, that are in need. I can only hope to be so strong, compassionate and driven when i am their age.",
">\n\nbut now i realize that they weren't growing to the better, more like downgrading in several aspects, and it upsets me\neven now i end up hiding from them in video games, or mobile games in bluestacks, because i don't want to talk to them or hear them talk about ridiculous stuff they saw on TV.. i know it's bad of me but i just can't listen to them repeat the lies and i can't explain to them that it's lies because they don't listen to me",
">\n\nI feel you.",
">\n\nLooking back on my childhood, it’s insane for me to think about my parents having two kids right out of high school.. I’m 25 and dove into parenthood with my fiancée, who has a 7 year old (4 when we started seeing each other). I have learned and grown so much in the last 3 years.\nWe also have an 11 m/o together, and nothing could’ve prepare me for taking care of a baby, but again, I’ve learned and grown, and I wouldn’t have it any other way now. Being a dad is cool",
">\n\nKids are egocentric because all they know is that they exist. As we grow older and understand more of the world around us, and hopefully learn compassion to other people too, that's when we realize others are growing along us.",
">\n\nYeah, at some point I realized I am older than my parents were when they divorced... They were just kids...",
">\n\nI am 40 and it is still shocking. I will be broken when my dad dies:/"
] |
> | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans.",
">\n\nOne day you walk in to see them and realize that they're no longer just older than you.\nThey're old, and time is flying.",
">\n\nHe started out as a dad, and became more and more human in the last forty-three years.",
">\n\nI can’t remember anything from my childhood, other than myself getting older.",
">\n\nMy parents never grew. They devolved.\nWe were once a successful, happy family with a business and plenty of money to be comfortable. Then my mom started being a cunt about the way my dad was running the business, cheated on him, and left. Dad drank the business away and mom became an insufferable narcissist that I don't talk to anymore.",
">\n\nOddly I think the same of mine.\nThey had a good life together though weren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, decided kids would be a good idea (I feel my mum was much more interested in this than my dad) and proceeded to get divorced when myself and twin brother turned thirteen.\nMum (who we feel was the only one wanting children) then moves 400 miles from the east of Scotland to the west of Wales and we barely saw her after that... She wasn't a great mum prior to this but now i have my own life and opinions I see how entitled she feels to affection purely from the fact that - \"I'M YOUR MOTHER!!!\" - something that has been screamed at me many a time. Crazy bitch. Respect is earned, not demanded",
">\n\nI just see negative comments about people's parents. I saw my parents evolve to more compassionate people, really giving a lot for the people around them, that are in need. I can only hope to be so strong, compassionate and driven when i am their age.",
">\n\nbut now i realize that they weren't growing to the better, more like downgrading in several aspects, and it upsets me\neven now i end up hiding from them in video games, or mobile games in bluestacks, because i don't want to talk to them or hear them talk about ridiculous stuff they saw on TV.. i know it's bad of me but i just can't listen to them repeat the lies and i can't explain to them that it's lies because they don't listen to me",
">\n\nI feel you.",
">\n\nLooking back on my childhood, it’s insane for me to think about my parents having two kids right out of high school.. I’m 25 and dove into parenthood with my fiancée, who has a 7 year old (4 when we started seeing each other). I have learned and grown so much in the last 3 years.\nWe also have an 11 m/o together, and nothing could’ve prepare me for taking care of a baby, but again, I’ve learned and grown, and I wouldn’t have it any other way now. Being a dad is cool",
">\n\nKids are egocentric because all they know is that they exist. As we grow older and understand more of the world around us, and hopefully learn compassion to other people too, that's when we realize others are growing along us.",
">\n\nYeah, at some point I realized I am older than my parents were when they divorced... They were just kids...",
">\n\nI am 40 and it is still shocking. I will be broken when my dad dies:/",
">\n\nI remember the one and only time my mom got drunk in front of me. I was like 14 and she got dropped off and couldn’t make it up the stairs on her own. She was younger that night than I am now and I’m exponentially further along in my life than she was then. Thinking I have my shit together better than either of my parents did until they were in their 50s is odd but also a little comforting."
] |
It makes you more knowledgeable than the layperson. But also, "the blind leading the blind" is a phrase for a reason | [] |
>
People need to be their own advocate for their health including mental health. | [
"It makes you more knowledgeable than the layperson. But also, \"the blind leading the blind\" is a phrase for a reason"
] |
>
They want to be in relation to their own revolution of experience as it relates to their diagnosis.
But yeah, sometimes some variations of mental illness will inhibit the awareness and ability to be rational and self-aware about that particular condition, etc.
While the experience can be valid for those who have improved and have found mechanisms to make their condition better, and that experience can be possibly worth sharing, other times it can be like the blind leading the blind and sometimes even worse, making others with mental illness amplify the symptoms of their illness. Kinda like politics! | [
"It makes you more knowledgeable than the layperson. But also, \"the blind leading the blind\" is a phrase for a reason",
">\n\nPeople need to be their own advocate for their health including mental health."
] |
>
Come to the bipolar subreddits, there are so many posts from people who don’t even understand their own condition, let alone mental illnesses in general. Even worse when people try to diagnose themselves. | [
"It makes you more knowledgeable than the layperson. But also, \"the blind leading the blind\" is a phrase for a reason",
">\n\nPeople need to be their own advocate for their health including mental health.",
">\n\nThey want to be in relation to their own revolution of experience as it relates to their diagnosis. \nBut yeah, sometimes some variations of mental illness will inhibit the awareness and ability to be rational and self-aware about that particular condition, etc.\nWhile the experience can be valid for those who have improved and have found mechanisms to make their condition better, and that experience can be possibly worth sharing, other times it can be like the blind leading the blind and sometimes even worse, making others with mental illness amplify the symptoms of their illness. Kinda like politics!"
] |
>
It's awful. I see so much misinformation in bipolar spaces. The most common are 1) that any impulsive decision or self-destructive decision is automatically mania or hypomania i.e. I dyed my hair green, I'm sooooo manic 2) that "cycling" from happy to sad, or whatever combination, during the span of a single day is bipolar disorder. People with bipolar disorder do not cycle daily but that shit is everywhere. | [
"It makes you more knowledgeable than the layperson. But also, \"the blind leading the blind\" is a phrase for a reason",
">\n\nPeople need to be their own advocate for their health including mental health.",
">\n\nThey want to be in relation to their own revolution of experience as it relates to their diagnosis. \nBut yeah, sometimes some variations of mental illness will inhibit the awareness and ability to be rational and self-aware about that particular condition, etc.\nWhile the experience can be valid for those who have improved and have found mechanisms to make their condition better, and that experience can be possibly worth sharing, other times it can be like the blind leading the blind and sometimes even worse, making others with mental illness amplify the symptoms of their illness. Kinda like politics!",
">\n\nCome to the bipolar subreddits, there are so many posts from people who don’t even understand their own condition, let alone mental illnesses in general. Even worse when people try to diagnose themselves."
] |
>
Between that and the new "sElF-DiaGnoSeD" bullshit, you have a recipe for disaster. Looking at you TikTok.
Oh wait, isn't that what zoomers overwhelmingly use? And what? They have rampant mental health issues?
Imagine my shock. | [
"It makes you more knowledgeable than the layperson. But also, \"the blind leading the blind\" is a phrase for a reason",
">\n\nPeople need to be their own advocate for their health including mental health.",
">\n\nThey want to be in relation to their own revolution of experience as it relates to their diagnosis. \nBut yeah, sometimes some variations of mental illness will inhibit the awareness and ability to be rational and self-aware about that particular condition, etc.\nWhile the experience can be valid for those who have improved and have found mechanisms to make their condition better, and that experience can be possibly worth sharing, other times it can be like the blind leading the blind and sometimes even worse, making others with mental illness amplify the symptoms of their illness. Kinda like politics!",
">\n\nCome to the bipolar subreddits, there are so many posts from people who don’t even understand their own condition, let alone mental illnesses in general. Even worse when people try to diagnose themselves.",
">\n\nIt's awful. I see so much misinformation in bipolar spaces. The most common are 1) that any impulsive decision or self-destructive decision is automatically mania or hypomania i.e. I dyed my hair green, I'm sooooo manic 2) that \"cycling\" from happy to sad, or whatever combination, during the span of a single day is bipolar disorder. People with bipolar disorder do not cycle daily but that shit is everywhere."
] |
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