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So the example that I see firsthand is with a PlanetLab test bed that I run. We have researchers throughout the world inventing brand new services, the very kinds of services that we are imagining people wanting to use 10 years from now. And they deploy those on PlanetLab - let me just say for a second, what PlanetLab is, is 600 plus machines spread across the world, 35 countries, about 300 sites. And these researchers basically can use these machines as a point of presence for deploying whatever service, Internet service they want to. So they start to run these services, users start to use these services and we're constantly battling a packet that will show up at some site and will raise all sorts of alarms and, you know, threats that we need to stop this activity because it looks like an attack.
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so the example that i see firsthand is with a planetlab test bed that i run we have researchers throughout the world, inventing brand new services the very kinds of services that we are imagining people wanting to use 10 years from now. and they deploy those. on planetlab - let me just say for a second what planetlab is; is 600 plus machines spread across the world, 35 countries about 300 sites. and these, researchers basically can use these machines as a point of presence for deploying whatever service internet service they want to so they start to run these services users start to, use these services and we're constantly, battling a packet that will show up at some site and will raise all sorts of; alarms and you know threats that we need to stop this activity because it looks like an
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So the example that I see firsthand is with a PlanetLab test bed that I run We have researchers throughout the world inventing brand. new services the very kinds of. services; that we are imagining people wanting to use 10 years from. now, And they deploy those on PlanetLab - let me, just say for a. second what PlanetLab is is 600 plus machines spread, across the world 35 countries about 300 sites And these researchers basically can use these machines as a, point. of presence for deploying whatever service Internet; service they want to So they start to. run these services users start to, use these services and we're, constantly battling, a packet that will show up, at. some site and will raise all sorts, of, alarms, and you, know threats that we need to stop this activity because it looks like an
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so the example that i see firsthand is with a planetlab test bed that i run. we have researchers throughout the world inventing brand new services, the very kinds of services that we are imagining people wanting to use 10 years from now. and they deploy those on planetlab - let me just say for a second, what planetlab is, is 600 plus machines spread across the world, 35 countries, about 300 sites. and these researchers basically can use these machines as a point of presence for deploying whatever service, internet service they want to. so they start to run these services, users start to use these services and we're constantly battling a packet that will show up at some site and will raise all sorts of alarms and, you know, threats that we need to stop this activity because it looks like an attack.
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So the point is, as you innovate and you step beyond what the Internet does today because of the security climate, there's a risk that this innovation gets thwarted.
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so the point is as you innovate, and you step beyond what the internet does today, because of the security climate there's a risk. that this innovation gets
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So the point is as you, innovate and you step beyond what the Internet does today because of. the security climate there's a risk that this innovation gets
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so the point is, as you innovate and you step beyond what the internet does today because of the security climate, there's a risk that this innovation gets thwarted.
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Can I add to that? I'll give another example. I agree partially that there's a Balkanizing effect. But I'll give another example and it's called, something called China. That is to say that the Chinese government, to a degree which wasn't true in the early Internet, has imposed the level of watchfulness and control over the Internet which is somewhat unprecedented.
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can i add to that? i'll give another example i agree partially that there's, a balkanizing effect but, i'll give another example and it's called something called china that is to say that the chinese government to a degree which wasn't, true in the early internet has imposed the level of watchfulness and control over the internet which is somewhat
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Can; I add to, that? I'll give another example I agree partially that there's a Balkanizing, effect But I'll give another example and it's, called something called China That is to say that the Chinese government to a degree, which wasn't true in the early Internet; has, imposed the level of watchfulness and control over the Internet which is somewhat
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can i add to that? i'll give another example. i agree partially that there's a balkanizing effect. but i'll give another example and it's called, something called china. that is to say that the chinese government, to a degree which wasn't true in the early internet, has imposed the level of watchfulness and control over the internet which is somewhat unprecedented.
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And so the kind of balkanization - this is something we write about in our book - is often at the country level; that is, countries have different ideas of what they would like the Internet to be, and so already the Chinese Internet, partially because of language and obvious difference in consumer taste, but partially also because of government control, you end up with something more of a balkanized than a global medium. So that's also going on at the same time.
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and so the kind of balkanization - this is something we write about in our book - is often at; the country level that is countries have different ideas of what they would like the internet, to be and so already the chinese internet partially because of, language and obvious difference in consumer taste but partially also because of government control you, end up with something more of a balkanized than a global medium. so that's also; going, on at the same
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And so the kind of balkanization - this is something we write about in our book - is often at the country level that is countries have, different ideas, of what they would like the Internet to be and so already the Chinese Internet partially, because of language and obvious difference in consumer taste but partially also because of government control you end up with something more of a balkanized than a global medium So that's also going on at the same
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and so the kind of balkanization - this is something we write about in our book - is often at the country level; that is, countries have different ideas of what they would like the internet to be, and so already the chinese internet, partially because of language and obvious difference in consumer taste, but partially also because of government control, you end up with something more of a balkanized than a global medium. so that's also going on at the same time.
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We'll come back and talk lots more about this, because it's very vital, very interesting. And we'll take your questions about the Internet and your suggestions. So stay with us. We'll be right back after this short break.
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we'll come back and, talk lots more about this because. it's very vital; very interesting and we'll take your. questions about the internet and, your suggestions so stay with us we'll be right back after this short.
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We'll come back, and talk lots more about this because it's very vital, very interesting And we'll take your, questions about the Internet and your. suggestions So. stay with, us We'll be right back after this short
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we'll come back and talk lots more about this, because it's very vital, very interesting. and we'll take your questions about the internet and your suggestions. so stay with us. we'll be right back after this short break.
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I'm Ira Flatow. This is TALK OF THE NATION Science Friday from NPR News.
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i'm ira flatow this is. talk. of the nation science friday from npr
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I'm Ira Flatow, This is TALK OF THE NATION Science Friday from NPR
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i'm ira flatow. this is talk of the nation science friday from npr news.
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You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION'S SCIENCE FRIDAY.I am Ira Flatow.
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you're listening to talk of the nation's science friday.i am ira
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You're listening to. TALK, OF THE NATION'S SCIENCE FRIDAY.I am Ira
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you're listening to talk of the nation's science friday.i am ira flatow.
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We're talking this hour about the future of the Internet with my guests Tim Wu, professor of law at Columbia University, co-author of Who Controls the Internet: Illusions of a Borderless World; John Horrigan, associate director for research at the Pew Internet and American Life Project in Washington; Larry Peterson, professor and chair of the department of computer science at Princeton University in Princeton, N.J. and director of the PlanetLab consortium.
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we're talking this hour about the future. of the internet, with my guests tim wu professor of law at columbia university co-author. of who controls the internet: illusions of a borderless world john horrigan associate; director for research at the pew internet; and american life project in washington larry; peterson professor. and chair of the department of computer science at princeton university in princeton n.j and director of the planetlab
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We're talking this hour about the, future of the, Internet with my guests Tim, Wu professor of law at Columbia University co-author of Who Controls the Internet: Illusions of a Borderless World. John Horrigan; associate, director for research at the Pew Internet and. American Life Project in Washington Larry Peterson professor and chair of the, department of computer science at Princeton University in Princeton N.J; and director, of the PlanetLab
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we're talking this hour about the future of the internet with my guests tim wu, professor of law at columbia university, co-author of who controls the internet: illusions of a borderless world; john horrigan, associate director for research at the pew internet and american life project in washington; larry peterson, professor and chair of the department of computer science at princeton university in princeton, n.j. and director of the planetlab consortium.
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Our number 1-800-989-8255.
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our number
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Our number
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our number 1-800-989-8255.
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Let me pick up on this theme of balkanization. Is there really a threat? Is it developing that one of many smaller Internets coming out and one Internet can't talk to the other?
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let me pick up on this theme of balkanization is there really a threat? is it developing that one of many smaller internets coming out and one internet can't talk to the
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Let me pick up, on this theme of balkanization Is there really a threat? Is it developing that one of many smaller Internets coming out and one Internet can't talk to the,
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let me pick up on this theme of balkanization. is there really a threat? is it developing that one of many smaller internets coming out and one internet can't talk to the other?
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And so it's these sorts of assumptions that are starting to break down and causing people to think if we stood back and had a chance to design this thing over again, how would we do it?
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and so it's. these sorts of assumptions that, are starting. to break down and causing people to think if we stood back, and. had a, chance to design this, thing over again how would we do
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And so it's. these sorts of assumptions that are, starting to break down and causing people to think if we stood back and had a chance to design this thing over again how would we do
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and so it's these sorts of assumptions that are starting to break down and causing people to think if we stood back and had a chance to design this thing over again, how would we do it?
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You know, it's becoming more and more of a national medium. So the Internet in Germany and in France, for one thing, is in German or in French, or in China, or in Japan, and it just comes to take on more national characteristics.
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you know it's becoming more and more of, a national medium so the internet in germany and in france, for one. thing is in german or, in french or in china or in japan and it just comes to take on; more national
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You know it's becoming more and more of. a national medium So the Internet in Germany and in, France. for one thing is in German or in French or in China or in Japan and it just comes to take on. more, national.
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you know, it's becoming more and more of a national medium. so the internet in germany and in france, for one thing, is in german or in french, or in china, or in japan, and it just comes to take on more national characteristics.
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It's not necessarily bad. You know, Japanese people love using the Internet from their strange-looking cell phones. Chinese people, for some reason, love chat rooms. Americans love blogs. They just like saying what they want to say.
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it's not. necessarily bad you know japanese, people love using the internet from. their strange-looking cell, phones chinese people, for some reason love chat rooms americans, love blogs; they just like saying, what they want to
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It's not necessarily bad You know Japanese people love using the, Internet from their strange-looking cell phones Chinese people for some reason love chat, rooms Americans love blogs They just like saying what they want to
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it's not necessarily bad. you know, japanese people love using the internet from their strange-looking cell phones. chinese people, for some reason, love chat rooms. americans love blogs. they just like saying what they want to say.
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And so the different countries are kind of shaping the Internet to their own culture. It used to be kind of as a medium that was floating on outer space and you went there and, you know, you became this netizen. That's more becoming part of national cultures.
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and so the different countries are kind. of shaping the internet to their own culture it used to be kind of as a medium. that was floating on outer space and you went there, and you know you became this netizen that's more becoming part of national
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And so the. different countries are kind of shaping the Internet. to their own culture It used to be kind of as, a medium that was floating on; outer space and you went there and you know you became, this netizen That's more becoming part of; national
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and so the different countries are kind of shaping the internet to their own culture. it used to be kind of as a medium that was floating on outer space and you went there and, you know, you became this netizen. that's more becoming part of national cultures.
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And I don't necessarily think that's a crisis, I think that's kind of natural and I think that over the 10 years past here we'll see more of that.
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and i don't necessarily think that's a crisis i think, that's kind of natural and i think that over the 10 years past here we'll see more of
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And I. don't necessarily think that's a crisis I, think that's kind of natural, and I think that over the 10 years past here we'll see more of
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and i don't necessarily think that's a crisis, i think that's kind of natural and i think that over the 10 years past here we'll see more of that.
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And if I could just jump in. You could imagine balkanization and decentralization and still have that capacity for any user to post content that any other user can access and see.
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and. if i could just jump in you could imagine. balkanization and decentralization and still have that capacity for any user to post content that any other user can. access and
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And if I could, just jump in You could imagine balkanization and decentralization and still have. that capacity for, any user to post content that any other user can access and
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and if i could just jump in. you could imagine balkanization and decentralization and still have that capacity for any user to post content that any other user can access and see.
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John, what are people - I know you study what people do on the Internet. What do they do on the Internet?
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john what are people; - i know you. study what people, do on the internet what do. they do on the
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John what are people - I; know you study what. people do on the Internet What do they do on the.
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john, what are people - i know you study what people do on the internet. what do they do on the internet?
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Well, still communication is the killer application. People still gravitate toward email and IMing and those sorts of things. Following on closely with that are doing Internet searches. People scratch their informational itches every day in a variety of ways by logging online and doing a search. And we find increasingly, for those of you interested in the media business, that people go online increasingly for news and leave behind other types of media such as national TV newscasts and local newspaper readings
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well still communication is the killer application people still gravitate, toward email and iming and those sorts, of. things following. on. closely; with that. are. doing internet searches people scratch their informational itches every day in a variety of ways by, logging online and doing. a search and we find increasingly for those of you interested in the media business that people go online increasingly for news and leave behind other types of media such as national tv newscasts, and local newspaper
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Well still communication is the killer application People still gravitate toward email and IMing and those sorts of things Following on closely with that are doing Internet searches People scratch their informational itches every day in a. variety of ways by logging online and doing a search And we find increasingly for those of you interested in. the media business that people. go. online increasingly for news and leave behind. other types of media such, as national TV newscasts and local newspaper
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well, still communication is the killer application. people still gravitate toward email and iming and those sorts of things. following on closely with that are doing internet searches. people scratch their informational itches every day in a variety of ways by logging online and doing a search. and we find increasingly, for those of you interested in the media business, that people go online increasingly for news and leave behind other types of media such as national tv newscasts and local newspaper readings
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So lots more communications activities, particularly interactive, richly interactive types of applications are popular among Internet users. But as bandwidth increases, people are more comfortable in watching videos online and taking advantage of some of the entertainment applications.
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so lots more, communications activities particularly interactive richly interactive types of applications are. popular among internet users but as bandwidth increases people are more comfortable in watching videos, online and taking advantage of some of the entertainment
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So lots more communications activities particularly interactive richly interactive types of applications are popular among Internet users But. as bandwidth. increases people are more comfortable in watching videos online and taking advantage of some of, the entertainment
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so lots more communications activities, particularly interactive, richly interactive types of applications are popular among internet users. but as bandwidth increases, people are more comfortable in watching videos online and taking advantage of some of the entertainment applications.
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What is your sense of - I'll ask all of you - of in Congress, where there are these bills about Internet neutrality. Do they have the - share the sense of the general public that the Internet should remain a free and open place or are they siding with big business like they do on many issues?
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what is your sense of - i'll ask all of you - of in, congress where there are these, bills about internet neutrality do they have the - share the sense of the general public that the internet should remain a free and open. place or are they siding with big business like they; do on many,
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What is your sense of - I'll ask all of you - of in Congress where there are these, bills about Internet neutrality Do they have the - share the sense of the general public that the Internet should remain a free and open place or are they siding with big business, like they do on many
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what is your sense of - i'll ask all of you - of in congress, where there are these bills about internet neutrality. do they have the - share the sense of the general public that the internet should remain a free and open place or are they siding with big business like they do on many issues?
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Well, I've been watching this and there's actually different members of Congress are different on this. And so it's hard to say generally what Congress is. I think there's a lot of grassroots reaction to some of the plans the Bells have come up with.
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well i've been watching this and, there's actually different members of congress are different on this and so it's. hard, to say generally what congress is i think there's a lot of; grassroots reaction to some, of the plans the, bells have come up
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Well I've. been watching, this and there's actually different members of Congress are different on this And so it's hard to say generally what Congress is I think there's, a lot of grassroots reaction to some of the plans the Bells. have come up
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well, i've been watching this and there's actually different members of congress are different on this. and so it's hard to say generally what congress is. i think there's a lot of grassroots reaction to some of the plans the bells have come up with.
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The Bells have said numerous times that we're not happy with Google free-riding on our pipes. We want to create premium, a tiered Internet. Maybe we want to start choosing more of what the user's experience is like. Start tailoring it more, choosing one company over another.
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the bells have said numerous, times that we're not happy with google free-riding on our pipes we want to create, premium a tiered internet maybe; we want to start choosing more, of what the user's experience is like start tailoring it more choosing one company over
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The Bells have said numerous times that we're not happy with Google free-riding on our pipes We want to create premium a tiered Internet Maybe we want to start choosing more of what the user's experience is like Start tailoring it more choosing one company over
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the bells have said numerous times that we're not happy with google free-riding on our pipes. we want to create premium, a tiered internet. maybe we want to start choosing more of what the user's experience is like. start tailoring it more, choosing one company over another.
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And there's a big reaction to that among users, and mostly negative, because they like the world where, you know, a blog like Boing-Boing can be as popular as CNN, and it's four people who are just goofing around part-time. And I think Americans like that folk culture feeling from the Internet.
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and there's a big reaction to that, among users, and mostly negative because they like the world where you know a blog like boing-boing, can be as popular as cnn and it's four people who are just goofing around part-time and i think americans like that folk culture feeling from the
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And there's a big reaction to that among users. and mostly negative because they like the world where you know a blog like Boing-Boing can be as popular as CNN and, it's. four. people who are just goofing, around part-time And I think Americans like that folk culture feeling from the
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and there's a big reaction to that among users, and mostly negative, because they like the world where, you know, a blog like boing-boing can be as popular as cnn, and it's four people who are just goofing around part-time. and i think americans like that folk culture feeling from the internet.
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And they don't really like big media, media consolidation. It's one issue that has a lot of grassroots support.
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and they don't really like big media media consolidation it's one issue that has a lot of grassroots
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And they don't really like big media media consolidation It's one issue that has a lot of grassroots
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and they don't really like big media, media consolidation. it's one issue that has a lot of grassroots support.
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You now, for many years...
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you now for many
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You now for many
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you now, for many years...
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Yeah, sorry.
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yeah
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Yeah.
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yeah, sorry.
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For many years we had over the air television, free TV channels, and people said, I'm not going to pay for cable, but they did. Could that be happening also with the Internet?
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for many years we had over the air. television free tv channels and, people, said i'm not going to pay, for cable but they did could. that be happening also with, the
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For, many years we had over the air television free TV channels and people said I'm not going to pay; for cable, but they did Could that. be happening also with the
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for many years we had over the air television, free tv channels, and people said, i'm not going to pay for cable, but they did. could that be happening also with the internet?
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Well, people do pay more for broadband than they used to for dial-up. And people are signing for broadband in droves. I think with network neutrality debate, one of the initial promises of the Internet is that the Internet would make democracy finally possible. And I don't know that that's been the case.
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well people do pay more for broadband than they used to for dial-up and people are signing for broadband in. droves i think with network neutrality debate one, of the initial promises of the internet is that the internet would make. democracy finally possible and i don't know that that's been the.
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Well, people do pay more for broadband than, they used to for dial-up And people are signing for broadband in droves I think with network neutrality debate one of the initial; promises. of the Internet is that the Internet. would make democracy finally. possible And I don't know. that that's been the
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well, people do pay more for broadband than they used to for dial-up. and people are signing for broadband in droves. i think with network neutrality debate, one of the initial promises of the internet is that the internet would make democracy finally possible. and i don't know that that's been the case.
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But I think in the communications policy arena, a couple of times over the past few years - as Tim was referring to - the grassroots mobilization capacity of the Internet has really been a disruptive force in the communications policy media.
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but. i, think in the communications policy arena a couple of, times over the past few years - as tim was; referring to, - the grassroots mobilization capacity of the internet has really been a disruptive force in the, communications policy
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But I think in the communications policy arena; a, couple of times over the past few years - as Tim was referring to - the grassroots mobilization capacity of the Internet has. really been a disruptive force in the communications policy
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but i think in the communications policy arena, a couple of times over the past few years - as tim was referring to - the grassroots mobilization capacity of the internet has really been a disruptive force in the communications policy media.
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And Tim mentioned the media ownership rules. Now we see it happening with lots of grassroot activity on network neutrality. So I think as you watch the House and Senate work their way through this, there's still a lot of uncertainty and deliberation going on among members because of this grassroots phenomenon that we're seeing.
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and tim mentioned the media ownership rules now we see it happening with lots of grassroot activity on network. neutrality so i think as you watch, the house and senate, work their way through this there's still a. lot of uncertainty, and deliberation going on among members because of this grassroots phenomenon that we're.
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And Tim mentioned the media ownership rules Now; we see, it happening with lots of grassroot activity on network neutrality So I, think as you watch the House and Senate work their way. through this there's. still a lot of, uncertainty and deliberation going on among members because of this grassroots phenomenon that we're
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and tim mentioned the media ownership rules. now we see it happening with lots of grassroot activity on network neutrality. so i think as you watch the house and senate work their way through this, there's still a lot of uncertainty and deliberation going on among members because of this grassroots phenomenon that we're seeing.
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Larry, did the Internet more or less, was it designed or did it just grow on its own?
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larry did the internet more or less was it designed or did it just grow on its
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Larry did. the Internet more or less was it designed or did it just. grow on its
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larry, did the internet more or less, was it designed or did it just grow on its own?
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Well, a little bit of both. You have to argue an excellent design, because it was designed, obviously, over 30 years ago and there was no way to anticipate this sort of usage it was going to get today. So it's a very nice architecture and it's enabled unimaginable things to happen.
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well a little bit of both you have; to argue an excellent design because it. was designed obviously over 30 years ago and there was no way to anticipate this sort of usage it was going to get today so it's a very nice architecture and it's enabled unimaginable things to
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Well a little bit of both. You have; to argue an excellent design because it. was designed obviously over 30 years. ago and there was no way, to anticipate this sort of usage it was going to. get today So it's a very nice architecture and it's enabled unimaginable, things to,
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well, a little bit of both. you have to argue an excellent design, because it was designed, obviously, over 30 years ago and there was no way to anticipate this sort of usage it was going to get today. so it's a very nice architecture and it's enabled unimaginable things to happen.
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There are limits to it. The world is clearly a very different place than it was 30 years ago. I've been harping on security, and just to bring that example back to the table for a second, the original assumption of the Internet was that everyone was a good guy and if there were bad guys, they were on the outside. And all I had to do was create a safe world on the inside and we all trusted each other and everything was fine.
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there are limits to it the world is clearly a very different. place than. it was 30 years ago i've been harping on, security and just; to bring that example back to the table for a second. the original assumption of the internet was that everyone was a good guy. and if there were bad guys. they were on the outside and all i had to do was create a safe world on the inside and we all trusted, each other and everything was
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There are limits to it The world is, clearly a very different place than. it was 30 years ago I've, been harping on security and just to bring that example back to the table for a second the original assumption of the Internet was that everyone was a good guy and, if there were bad guys they were on the outside And all I had to do was create a safe world on the inside and, we all trusted each other and everything was
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there are limits to it. the world is clearly a very different place than it was 30 years ago. i've been harping on security, and just to bring that example back to the table for a second, the original assumption of the internet was that everyone was a good guy and if there were bad guys, they were on the outside. and all i had to do was create a safe world on the inside and we all trusted each other and everything was fine.
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But of course that's not the case today. The adversaries aren't just on the outside, they're everywhere. And so we have to rethink who we trust and how we build a network up based upon those trust relationships.
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but of course that's not the case today the adversaries aren't just on the outside they're everywhere and so we have to rethink who we trust and how we build, a network, up based upon those, trust
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But of course that's not the case today; The adversaries aren't just on, the outside they're everywhere And, so, we have to rethink who we. trust and how we, build a network up based upon those trust
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but of course that's not the case today. the adversaries aren't just on the outside, they're everywhere. and so we have to rethink who we trust and how we build a network up based upon those trust relationships.
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Originally the Internet assumed that the things that you connected to it with, the computers, were always plugged in, they never moved, they had sufficient power and so on. And clearly none of that's true today, because we are a very mobile world and we have mobile devices and we have very small, embedded devices that are going to be connected to the Internet very soon.
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originally the. internet assumed, that the things that you connected to it with the computers were always plugged in they never moved they had sufficient power and so on and clearly none of that's, true today because we are a very, mobile world and we have mobile devices and we have. very small embedded devices that are going to be connected to the internet, very
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Originally the Internet assumed that the things that you connected to it with the. computers were always plugged in they. never moved they had sufficient power and so on And clearly none of that's true today because we are a very mobile world, and we have mobile devices and, we have very small embedded devices that are going to be connected to the Internet very
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originally the internet assumed that the things that you connected to it with, the computers, were always plugged in, they never moved, they had sufficient power and so on. and clearly none of that's true today, because we are a very mobile world and we have mobile devices and we have very small, embedded devices that are going to be connected to the internet very soon.
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How would you do it? A good question.
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how, would you. do it? a good
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How would you do. it? A good
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how would you do it? a good question.
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(Singing) ...(Unintelligible).
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(singing) ...(unintelligible).
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I think it's a really great question and I'll bring this - hopefully it's not too techie - but there is sort of a philosophical difference among engineers and network - you know, there are network ideologies, and there are people who people that they really got something in the Internet's original design.
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i think it's a really; great question and i'll bring this - hopefully it's; not too techie - but there is sort of a philosophical difference among engineers and network - you know there are, network ideologies. and there are people who people that they really got something in the internet's original
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I think it's a really great question and I'll bring this - hopefully. it's not, too techie - but there is sort of a, philosophical difference among engineers and network - you know there are network ideologies and there are people who people that, they really got something in the Internet's original
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i think it's a really great question and i'll bring this - hopefully it's not too techie - but there is sort of a philosophical difference among engineers and network - you know, there are network ideologies, and there are people who people that they really got something in the internet's original design.
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You know, it is very equal among everything. It is - I'll use a technical term, it's a best effort network. It hasn't really been optimized for anything. It started, you know, when it began it was used for email and bulletin boards and the World Wide Web grew on top of it and then, you know, instant messaging grew on top of it, chat rooms grew on top of it, Google. All these things grew and grew and grew and even voice, even phone service has been replicated.
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you know it is very equal among everything it is - i'll use a; technical term it's a best, effort, network it hasn't really, been optimized for anything, it started you know when it began it was used for email and. bulletin boards and the world wide web grew on top of it and then you know instant messaging. grew on top of it. chat rooms, grew on top of it google all these things grew and grew and grew and. even voice even phone service has been
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You know it is very equal. among everything It is - I'll use a technical term it's a best effort network It hasn't really been optimized for. anything It started, you know. when it began it was used for email and bulletin boards and, the World Wide Web grew on top of it and then. you know instant messaging grew on top of it, chat, rooms grew on top of it Google All these things grew and grew. and grew and, even voice even phone service has been
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you know, it is very equal among everything. it is - i'll use a technical term, it's a best effort network. it hasn't really been optimized for anything. it started, you know, when it began it was used for email and bulletin boards and the world wide web grew on top of it and then, you know, instant messaging grew on top of it, chat rooms grew on top of it, google. all these things grew and grew and grew and even voice, even phone service has been replicated.
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So that original design, as Larry said, turned out to be a lot sturdier than people thought. And the question is whether there's - really it's that possible to improve on it. There's a big divide. And some people think yes. They think we could do better. And some people said, you know, there's something about just that very simple principle of treating everything equally that can't really be improved upon.
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so that original design as larry said turned out to; be a lot sturdier than. people thought and the question is whether there's - really it's that; possible to improve on it there's a big divide and some people think yes they think we could do better and some people said you know there's something about just that, very simple principle of treating everything equally that can't really be improved
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So that original design as Larry said turned out to be a lot sturdier than people thought And the question is whether there's - really it's that possible to improve on, it There's a, big divide And some people think yes They think we could, do better And some people. said you know there's something about just that very simple principle of treating, everything equally that can't, really be improved
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so that original design, as larry said, turned out to be a lot sturdier than people thought. and the question is whether there's - really it's that possible to improve on it. there's a big divide. and some people think yes. they think we could do better. and some people said, you know, there's something about just that very simple principle of treating everything equally that can't really be improved upon.
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And I tend to think the latter, although, you know, it's a debate in the engineering community.
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and i tend to think the latter although, you know it's a debate; in the engineering
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And I tend to think the latter, although you know it's a debate in the engineering
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and i tend to think the latter, although, you know, it's a debate in the engineering community.
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I would say if everything thinks they own the Internet and then everybody thinks, you know, I can contribute to the design of it and make it better. But if you don't think you're empowered anymore, why should you try?
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i would say if everything thinks they own the internet and then everybody thinks you know i can contribute to. the design of it and make. it better, but if you, don't think you're empowered anymore why should you
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I would say if everything thinks they, own the Internet and then everybody thinks you know I. can contribute. to the design of it and make it better But if you don't think; you're empowered anymore, why should. you
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i would say if everything thinks they own the internet and then everybody thinks, you know, i can contribute to the design of it and make it better. but if you don't think you're empowered anymore, why should you try?
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Yeah. I guess it's a good point.
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yeah i guess it's a good
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Yeah I guess it's a good
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yeah. i guess it's a good point.
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Just speaking for the research community, which is obviously a very narrow segment of those that are involved in the Internet. But the ones that feel a little bit responsible for this experiment that escaped from the lab, the Internet was something that we were able to tinker with and innovate with at one point and it's now such a commercial success that we aren't able to do that. And so we naturally gravitate towards the places that we can innovate, which is on top of the Internet.
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just speaking for, the research community which is obviously a very narrow segment of those that are involved in the internet but the; ones that feel a little bit responsible for this, experiment. that escaped from the lab the internet was something that we were able to tinker with and innovate with at one point and it's now such a commercial success that we aren't able to do that, and so we naturally gravitate towards the places that we can innovate which is on top of the
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Just, speaking for the research community which is obviously a very narrow segment of those that, are involved in the Internet But the ones that feel a little bit responsible for this experiment that escaped from the lab the Internet was something that we were able to tinker with. and innovate with at one point and it's now such. a commercial success that we, aren't able to do that. And. so we, naturally gravitate towards the places that we can innovate which is on top of the
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just speaking for the research community, which is obviously a very narrow segment of those that are involved in the internet. but the ones that feel a little bit responsible for this experiment that escaped from the lab, the internet was something that we were able to tinker with and innovate with at one point and it's now such a commercial success that we aren't able to do that. and so we naturally gravitate towards the places that we can innovate, which is on top of the internet.
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And there are a lot of people that believe that the Internet is just fine and that we will just go off and build new services on top of it. But the real debate gets down to can we, in fact, solve all the problems that we foresee by only working on top of today's Internet? Or do we really have to reconsider how it's designed at the core?
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and there are a lot of, people that believe that the internet is just fine and that we will just go off, and build new. services on top of it but the real debate. gets down to can we, in fact solve all the problems that we foresee, by only working on top of today's internet? or, do we really have. to reconsider how it's designed at the
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And there, are a lot of people that believe that the Internet is just fine and that we will. just go off. and build new services on top of it But, the real, debate gets down to can we in fact solve all the, problems that we foresee by. only working. on, top of today's Internet? Or do. we really have to reconsider how it's designed at the
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and there are a lot of people that believe that the internet is just fine and that we will just go off and build new services on top of it. but the real debate gets down to can we, in fact, solve all the problems that we foresee by only working on top of today's internet? or do we really have to reconsider how it's designed at the core?
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Name me some of those problems that you foresee.
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name me some of those problems, that you
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Name me some of those problems that you
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name me some of those problems that you foresee.
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So the problem that does not go away because as you build new services on top of the Internet is the ability to launch and distribute an online service attack on some point in the Internet. And the reason for that is no matter how wonderful--
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so the problem that does not go away because as you build new services on top of the internet is the ability to launch and distribute an online service attack on some point in the internet and the reason for that is no matter how,
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So the problem that does not go away because. as you build new services, on top of the Internet is the ability to launch and distribute an online service attack on some point in the Internet And the reason for that is no matter how
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so the problem that does not go away because as you build new services on top of the internet is the ability to launch and distribute an online service attack on some point in the internet. and the reason for that is no matter how wonderful--
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You mean to bring - in lay terms - that we bring down somebody's network.
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you mean to bring - in lay terms - that we bring down somebody's
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You mean. to bring - in lay terms - that. we bring down somebody's
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you mean to bring - in lay terms - that we bring down somebody's network.
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Right. So you're CNN.com and you've commandeered a thousand zombies, machines that you've infiltrated around the world, and you cause them to start sending traffic to CNN.com, and you put such a load on it no one else can get to it.
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right so you're cnn.com and you've commandeered a thousand zombies machines that you've, infiltrated around the world. and you cause them to start sending traffic to cnn.com; and you put such a load on, it no one else can get to
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Right So you're CNN.com and. you've commandeered a thousand zombies machines that you've infiltrated around the world and you cause them, to start. sending traffic to CNN.com and you; put such a load on. it no one else can get to
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right. so you're cnn.com and you've commandeered a thousand zombies, machines that you've infiltrated around the world, and you cause them to start sending traffic to cnn.com, and you put such a load on it no one else can get to it.
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Right.
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right.
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So this happened a couple of years ago.
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so this; happened a couple of years
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So this, happened a couple of years
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so this happened a couple of years ago.
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So that problem you don't see going away?
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so that problem you don't see going
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So that problem you don't see going
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so that problem you don't see going away?
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That problem is an impossible one to make go away by building on top of the Internet because there's already access to the underside of the Internet that you can still send those packets. And so if all you can provide enhance services on top, it's very difficult to correct something that's inside.
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that problem is an impossible. one to. make go away by building on top of the internet because there's already access to the underside. of the internet that you can still send those packets and so if all, you can provide enhance services on top it's very difficult to correct something. that's
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That problem is an impossible one to make go away by building on top of, the Internet because there's already access to the underside of the Internet that, you can still send those packets And, so if all you can provide enhance services on top it's very difficult to correct something that's
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that problem is an impossible one to make go away by building on top of the internet because there's already access to the underside of the internet that you can still send those packets. and so if all you can provide enhance services on top, it's very difficult to correct something that's inside.
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Right. What other major problems...
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right what other, major
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Right What other major
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right. what other major problems...
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What I'm trying to get at...
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what i'm trying to get
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What I'm trying to get
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what i'm trying to get at...
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What other major problem...
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what other major
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What other major
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what other major problem...
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MR. PETERSON: Okay, go ahead.
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mr peterson: okay go
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MR PETERSON: Okay go
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mr. peterson: okay, go ahead.
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You can jump in, go ahead. Let me just see if I can get - Larry said he had a couple of...
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you can jump in go ahead let me just see if i can get - larry said he had. a couple
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You can jump in go ahead Let me just see if I can get - Larry said he, had a couple
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you can jump in, go ahead. let me just see if i can get - larry said he had a couple of...
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I want.
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i,
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I
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i want.
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Okay, go ahead, Larry. I'm sorry.
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okay go ahead. larry i'm
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Okay go ahead Larry I'm
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okay, go ahead, larry. i'm sorry.
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Any other, well go ahead, Tim, if you want to jump in if he hasn't got anything...
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any other well go ahead tim if, you want to jump in if he hasn't got
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Any other well go ahead Tim if you want to jump in if he hasn't got
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any other, well go ahead, tim, if you want to jump in if he hasn't got anything...
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Well, I just want to say, you know, there's always this debate over - and this is getting a little technical, and I - but there's this debate as to whether things can be improved on top of the Internet, as we say, or whether you have to rip up the highway and fix it that way.
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well i just want. to say you know there's always this debate over - and this is getting a little technical and i - but there's this debate as to whether things can be improved on top of the internet as we say or whether you have to rip up the highway and fix it that
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Well I just. want to say you know there's always this. debate over - and this is getting a little technical and; I - but there's this debate as to whether things can be. improved on top of the Internet. as we say or whether you have to rip up the highway and fix it that
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well, i just want to say, you know, there's always this debate over - and this is getting a little technical, and i - but there's this debate as to whether things can be improved on top of the internet, as we say, or whether you have to rip up the highway and fix it that way.
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And it's been to me very surprising what things the Internet has been capable of. That 30 year old very basic, very simple design has been capable of a lot of things no one ever thought it would be.
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and it's been to me very surprising what things the internet has been capable of that 30 year old very basic very simple, design. has been capable of a lot of things no one ever thought it would
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And it's been to me very surprising what things the Internet has been capable of, That, 30 year old very basic very simple design has been capable. of a lot of things no one ever thought it, would
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and it's been to me very surprising what things the internet has been capable of. that 30 year old very basic, very simple design has been capable of a lot of things no one ever thought it would be.
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I'll give you one example. When I worked in the telecom industry, no one ever thought the Internet would be useful for phone service, you know, for dialing people up. Everything thought it's just a lousy design, it'll never be useful. But with the right amount of bandwidth, companies like Skype and other voice-over IP companies, which I think you're talking about later, have been very successful. And it's really surprised a lot of engineers, what's been capable on best effort.
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i'll give you one example when i, worked in the telecom industry. no; one ever thought the internet would be useful for phone service you, know for dialing people up everything. thought it's just a lousy design it'll never. be useful but with the right amount of. bandwidth companies like skype and other voice-over ip companies which i think you're talking about later have been very successful and it's really surprised a lot of engineers what's been capable on; best
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I'll, give you one example When I worked in the telecom industry no one ever thought the Internet would be useful for phone service you know for dialing people up Everything thought. it's just a lousy design it'll never be useful But with the right amount, of. bandwidth companies like Skype and. other voice-over. IP companies which I think you're talking about later; have been very successful And it's really surprised a lot of engineers what's, been capable on best
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i'll give you one example. when i worked in the telecom industry, no one ever thought the internet would be useful for phone service, you know, for dialing people up. everything thought it's just a lousy design, it'll never be useful. but with the right amount of bandwidth, companies like skype and other voice-over ip companies, which i think you're talking about later, have been very successful. and it's really surprised a lot of engineers, what's been capable on best effort.
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You know, sometimes it's very hard to improve on simplicity. Now, I'm not a security expert, and I think maybe security is one area where it's hard, but it has been surprising, video, voice, blogging, search engines, all these things have been built on top of a very simple design, which just says keep the Internet dumb and let the intelligence run at the edges, and I think that's been very important.
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you know sometimes it's very hard, to, improve on simplicity now. i'm not a security expert and i think maybe security is. one area where it's hard but it has been surprising, video voice blogging search engines all these things have been built on top of a very simple design which just says keep the internet dumb and let the, intelligence run at the edges and i think, that's been very
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You know sometimes it's very hard to improve on simplicity Now I'm. not. a security expert and I think. maybe security is one area where it's hard but it has been surprising video voice blogging search. engines all these things have been built. on top of a very simple design which just says keep the Internet dumb and let the intelligence run at the edges; and, I think that's, been very
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you know, sometimes it's very hard to improve on simplicity. now, i'm not a security expert, and i think maybe security is one area where it's hard, but it has been surprising, video, voice, blogging, search engines, all these things have been built on top of a very simple design, which just says keep the internet dumb and let the intelligence run at the edges, and i think that's been very important.
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And that's an interesting concept, but is the government, or any government, going to require that they should be able to hack into the Internet for security purposes? In other words...
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and that's an interesting concept but is the government or any government going to require that they should be able to hack into the internet for security purposes? in other.
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And; that's an interesting concept but, is the government or any government going to require, that they should be able to hack into the, Internet for security purposes? In other
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and that's an interesting concept, but is the government, or any government, going to require that they should be able to hack into the internet for security purposes? in other words...
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That's a huge problem. The question of, what I assume you're getting at, the issue privacy of the users of the network versus accountability for the user's actions.
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that's a huge problem the question of what i assume you're getting at the issue privacy of, the users of the network versus accountability for the user's
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That's a huge problem The question of what, I assume you're, getting at the issue. privacy of the users of the. network versus accountability for the user's
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that's a huge problem. the question of, what i assume you're getting at, the issue privacy of the users of the network versus accountability for the user's actions.
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What's your thinking on that?
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what's your thinking on
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What's your thinking on
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what's your thinking on that?
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I guess I'll take my comments off the air.
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i, guess i'll take my comments off the
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I guess. I'll take. my comments off the
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i guess i'll take my comments off the air.
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Well, let me tell you a little bit about that. There are countries right now that do that all the time. China watches, you know, the Chinese government, various police departments in China watch people's emails, watch people's, you know, communications, and they sometimes arrest people. There's been people, there's a famous case where a Chinese dissident named Churtau(ph) because Yahoo turned over all his emails.
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well let me tell you a little bit about that there are. countries right; now that do that all the time china. watches you know the chinese government various police, departments in china watch people's emails watch people's you know communications and they sometimes arrest people there's been people there's a famous, case where a chinese dissident named churtau(ph) because yahoo turned, over. all his
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Well let me tell you a little bit about that There are countries right now that do that all the time China. watches you know the, Chinese government various police departments in China watch people's emails watch people's you know communications and they sometimes arrest people There's been people there's a famous case where a Chinese dissident named Churtau(ph) because, Yahoo turned over, all his.
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well, let me tell you a little bit about that. there are countries right now that do that all the time. china watches, you know, the chinese government, various police departments in china watch people's emails, watch people's, you know, communications, and they sometimes arrest people. there's been people, there's a famous case where a chinese dissident named churtau(ph) because yahoo turned over all his emails.
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And so, yes, this is going on all the time. The hard part is that sometimes there's new ways of evading government, but government definitely is interested in watching, and what's going on on the Internet, and has taken very active - it's not a philosophical or a possible thing, it's happening.
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and so yes this is going on all the time the hard part, is that sometimes there's new ways of evading government but government. definitely is interested in watching and what's going on. on the internet and has, taken very active - it's not a philosophical or a possible thing it's
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And so yes this, is going on all the time; The hard part is that sometimes there's new ways of evading government but government, definitely is interested in watching and what's going on on the Internet and has taken very active - it's. not a philosophical or a possible thing it's
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and so, yes, this is going on all the time. the hard part is that sometimes there's new ways of evading government, but government definitely is interested in watching, and what's going on on the internet, and has taken very active - it's not a philosophical or a possible thing, it's happening.
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Larry. Larry Peterson, what is your view on?
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larry larry peterson; what is your view
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Larry Larry Peterson what is your view.
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larry. larry peterson, what is your view on?
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What I see is a lot of effort into both. Put the accountability into the system on the part of users, and then finding ways to bypass that. So, one of the biggest driving forces that get people to use services on PlanetLab is that they get anonymous access to the Internet, that it's very hard to trace back to who was actually sending the packet. And I think there's going to be a constant battle between those trying to account for and those trying to bypass the accounting.
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what i, see is a lot of effort into both put the accountability into the system on the part of users and then finding ways to, bypass that so one of the biggest driving, forces that get people to use services on planetlab is that they get anonymous access to the internet that, it's very hard to trace back to who was actually sending the packet, and i think there's going to be a constant battle between those trying to account for and, those. trying to bypass the
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What I see is a lot of effort into, both Put the accountability into the system on the part of users and then finding ways to bypass that So one of the biggest driving forces, that get. people to use services on PlanetLab is that they get anonymous, access to the Internet that, it's very. hard to trace, back to who was actually sending the packet And I think there's going, to be a constant battle between those trying to account for and those trying to bypass the
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what i see is a lot of effort into both. put the accountability into the system on the part of users, and then finding ways to bypass that. so, one of the biggest driving forces that get people to use services on planetlab is that they get anonymous access to the internet, that it's very hard to trace back to who was actually sending the packet. and i think there's going to be a constant battle between those trying to account for and those trying to bypass the accounting.
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Talking about the future of the Internet this hour, on Talk of the Nation Science Friday, from NPR News. Let's see if we can get a phone call or two. Matt in San Antonio. Hi, Matt.
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talking about the future of the internet this hour on talk of the nation science friday from. npr news let's see if we can get a phone call or two matt in san. antonio hi
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Talking about. the future. of. the Internet this hour on Talk of the Nation Science Friday from NPR News Let's see if. we can get; a phone call or two. Matt in San Antonio Hi
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talking about the future of the internet this hour, on talk of the nation science friday, from npr news. let's see if we can get a phone call or two. matt in san antonio. hi, matt.
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Hi.
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hi.
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Hi there, go ahead.
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hi there go
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Hi there go
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hi there, go ahead.
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My question had to do with, earlier in the show someone had mentioned how the current Internet is kind of this decentralized, folksy atmosphere, and I was just wondering what the guest's opinions were on maintaining that versus increasing security and maybe losing some of that folksy sort of traditional Internet feel versus, you know, protecting privacy information, that kind of thing.
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my question. had, to. do with earlier in. the show someone had mentioned how the current internet is kind of this decentralized folksy atmosphere and i was just wondering what the guest's opinions were on maintaining that versus increasing. security and maybe, losing some of that folksy sort, of traditional internet feel versus you know protecting, privacy information that kind of
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My question had to do with earlier in the show someone had mentioned how the current Internet is kind of this decentralized folksy atmosphere and I was just wondering what the guest's opinions were on. maintaining that versus increasing. security and maybe losing, some of that folksy sort of traditional Internet feel versus, you know. protecting privacy information that kind of
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my question had to do with, earlier in the show someone had mentioned how the current internet is kind of this decentralized, folksy atmosphere, and i was just wondering what the guest's opinions were on maintaining that versus increasing security and maybe losing some of that folksy sort of traditional internet feel versus, you know, protecting privacy information, that kind of thing.
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Yeah, I think it's a great question. I don't think the two are necessarily intentioned, security and folksiness. I think security can be wrongly used as a justification for centralizing the Internet. I think that companies that have an interest in centralization might, like the Bell companies, don't want to always point the finger at them, but they tend have be of this mindset, might use security as a mindset as to why we need more control, why you need more things to come from the phone company as opposed to other users. But I don't think they are necessarily intentioned.
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yeah i think it's a great question i don't think the two are necessarily intentioned, security and folksiness i think security can be wrongly used as a justification for centralizing the internet i think that companies that have an interest in centralization might like the bell companies don't want to always point the finger at them but they tend have be of this mindset might use security as a mindset. as to why we need more control; why you need. more, things to come from the phone company. as opposed to other users but i don't think they are necessarily
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Yeah I think it's a great question I don't think the two are necessarily intentioned security and folksiness. I think security can be wrongly used as a justification for centralizing the Internet I think that. companies that. have an interest in centralization might like the Bell, companies. don't want to always point the finger at them but they tend have be of this mindset might use security as, a mindset as to why we need more control why you need more things to come from the phone company as opposed to other users But I don't think they are necessarily
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yeah, i think it's a great question. i don't think the two are necessarily intentioned, security and folksiness. i think security can be wrongly used as a justification for centralizing the internet. i think that companies that have an interest in centralization might, like the bell companies, don't want to always point the finger at them, but they tend have be of this mindset, might use security as a mindset as to why we need more control, why you need more things to come from the phone company as opposed to other users. but i don't think they are necessarily intentioned.
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I would second that. We can find technological solutions that keep the decentralization of the Internet, and yet provide better security than we do today.
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i would second that we can find. technological solutions that keep the decentralization of the internet and yet provide better security than we do.
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I would second that We can find technological solutions that keep the; decentralization of the Internet. and yet provide better security than we do
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i would second that. we can find technological solutions that keep the decentralization of the internet, and yet provide better security than we do today.
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And I would add to that by saying that, that folksiness when you look at user-generated content is just one of the, not only one of the cool things about the Internet, it's one thing that users value a great deal so you wouldn't want to give up that value, I don't think.
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and i would add to that, by saying that that folksiness when you look at user-generated content. is just one of the not; only one of the cool things about, the internet it's one thing. that users value a great deal so you wouldn't want to give; up that value i don't
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And I would add to that, by saying that that folksiness when you look at user-generated content; is just one of the not only one of the cool things about; the Internet it's one; thing that users value a great deal so. you wouldn't want, to give up that; value I don't
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and i would add to that by saying that, that folksiness when you look at user-generated content is just one of the, not only one of the cool things about the internet, it's one thing that users value a great deal so you wouldn't want to give up that value, i don't think.
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Yes, completely. You know, I spend - I'm sorry, go ahead.
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yes completely you know i spend - i'm sorry go
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Yes completely You know I. spend - I'm sorry, go
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yes, completely. you know, i spend - i'm sorry, go ahead.
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No, go ahead. You go ahead, I'm sorry.
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no go ahead you go ahead i'm.
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No go ahead You go ahead I'm
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no, go ahead. you go ahead, i'm sorry.
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You know, I spend a lot of, I can't believe how, I am embarrassed to admit how much of my free time spend reading Wikipedia articles. You know, like what happened, you know, just on whatever. I mean, if you think of something like old comic books you used to read or something. You know, what happened in Archie or the X-Men 10 years ago? You can find it on Wikipedia, and Wikipedia is free, and it's written completely by volunteers. And it's kind of amazing. You just, you know, I think that's what really at issue here is that folk culture, the return of folk culture to America has been an amazing development of the early 21st century.
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you know i spend a lot of i can't believe how i am embarrassed to admit how much. of my free time, spend reading wikipedia articles, you know like what happened you know just on whatever i mean if you think of something like old comic books you used to, read or something you know what happened in archie or the x-men; 10 years ago? you can find, it on; wikipedia and, wikipedia is free and it's written completely by volunteers and it's kind of amazing. you just you know i think, that's what really at issue here is that, folk culture the return of folk culture to america has been an amazing development of the. early 21st
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You know I spend a lot; of I can't. believe how I am. embarrassed, to admit how much of my free time spend reading Wikipedia articles You know like what happened you know just on whatever I mean if you think of something like old comic books you used to read or something You know what happened in Archie. or the X-Men 10 years ago? You can find it, on Wikipedia and Wikipedia is free and it's written completely by volunteers, And it's kind of. amazing You just you know I think that's what really at issue here is that, folk culture the return of folk culture to America has been an amazing development of the early 21st
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you know, i spend a lot of, i can't believe how, i am embarrassed to admit how much of my free time spend reading wikipedia articles. you know, like what happened, you know, just on whatever. i mean, if you think of something like old comic books you used to read or something. you know, what happened in archie or the x-men 10 years ago? you can find it on wikipedia, and wikipedia is free, and it's written completely by volunteers. and it's kind of amazing. you just, you know, i think that's what really at issue here is that folk culture, the return of folk culture to america has been an amazing development of the early 21st century.
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And what about all the bandwidth and usage that has gone to pornography, gambling, things like that? Is that the future of the Internet?
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and, what about, all the bandwidth. and usage that has, gone to pornography, gambling things like that? is that the future of the
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And what about all the. bandwidth and usage, that. has gone to pornography, gambling things; like that? Is that the future of the
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and what about all the bandwidth and usage that has gone to pornography, gambling, things like that? is that the future of the internet?
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You know, the Internet is a multifaceted tool, so people use it for different things. Good things and bad things. I don't know if you want, or even need to have security fixes for those sorts of things, but it's certainly a part of online behavior. There's no question about that.
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you know the internet is a multifaceted tool, so people use it for different things, good things and bad things i don't know if you want or even need to have security; fixes for those sorts of things but it's certainly a; part of online behavior there's no question, about
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You know the Internet is, a multifaceted tool so people use it for. different things Good things, and bad things I don't know if you. want or even need to have security fixes for those sorts of things but it's. certainly a part of online behavior There's no question about
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you know, the internet is a multifaceted tool, so people use it for different things. good things and bad things. i don't know if you want, or even need to have security fixes for those sorts of things, but it's certainly a part of online behavior. there's no question about that.
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I mean, the big legal question I guess over the next 10 years, if we want to talk a big legal question, is whether - there has been, for example, in the area of pornography, not a lot of crackdowns, considering that the Administration is obviously a moralistic administration. There has been a surprising lack of government action. There really just hasn't been much.
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i mean the big legal question i guess over; the next 10 years if we want to talk a big legal question is whether - there has been. for, example in the area of pornography not, a lot of crackdowns considering, that the administration is obviously a moralistic administration there has been a surprising lack of government, action, there really just hasn't been
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I mean the big legal question I guess over, the next 10 years if we want to talk a big legal question is whether - there has been for example in the area of. pornography not a lot of crackdowns considering that, the Administration is obviously. a moralistic administration There has been a surprising lack of government action There really just hasn't been
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i mean, the big legal question i guess over the next 10 years, if we want to talk a big legal question, is whether - there has been, for example, in the area of pornography, not a lot of crackdowns, considering that the administration is obviously a moralistic administration. there has been a surprising lack of government action. there really just hasn't been much.
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But the U.S. has also blocked the XXX site, the domain name that some people want to have.
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but the u.s has also blocked, the xxx site the domain name that some people want to,
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But the, U.S, has also blocked the XXX site the domain name that some people want to
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but the u.s. has also blocked the xxx site, the domain name that some people want to have.
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That's true. They've blocked the establishment, but that's pretty much a symbolic gesture. You know, it's easier to find pornography that it is to find Maureen Dowd's columns, which suggests that maybe Times Select is the answer. To pornography. I don't know, you know, the pornography problems.
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that's true they've blocked the establishment but that's pretty, much a symbolic gesture you know it's easier to find pornography that; it is to, find maureen dowd's columns, which suggests that, maybe times select is the answer to pornography i don't know, you; know the pornography
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That's true They've blocked, the establishment but that's pretty much a symbolic gesture You know it's easier to find. pornography, that it is to find Maureen Dowd's columns which suggests that maybe Times Select, is. the answer To pornography I don't know. you know the pornography
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that's true. they've blocked the establishment, but that's pretty much a symbolic gesture. you know, it's easier to find pornography that it is to find maureen dowd's columns, which suggests that maybe times select is the answer. to pornography. i don't know, you know, the pornography problems.
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It is, and I'm starting to sound like the Family of Coalition or something, but the governments really haven't done much in the Western world about it, and there's kind of an acceptance. And I think that's - in the next 10 years whether, you know, maybe society just thinks porn isn't a problem anymore. It's completely different than it was 30 years ago. And I think that's something that's happened.
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it is and i'm starting to sound like the family of coalition or, something but the governments really. haven't done much in the western world about it and there's kind of an acceptance and i think that's - in the next 10 years whether you know maybe society just thinks porn isn't a problem anymore it's completely different than it; was 30 years ago and i think that's something, that's
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It, is and I'm starting to sound like the Family of Coalition or something but the governments really haven't; done much in; the Western world about it and there's kind of, an acceptance And I think; that's - in the next 10 years whether you know maybe society just thinks porn isn't a, problem anymore It's completely different than it was 30 years ago And I think, that's something that's
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it is, and i'm starting to sound like the family of coalition or something, but the governments really haven't done much in the western world about it, and there's kind of an acceptance. and i think that's - in the next 10 years whether, you know, maybe society just thinks porn isn't a problem anymore. it's completely different than it was 30 years ago. and i think that's something that's happened.
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I'm going to have - I've run out of time, I'm going to thank all of you. Tim Wu, Professor of Law, Columbia, and co-author of the book Who Controls the Internet: Illusions of a Borderless World. John Corrigan, Associate Director of Research at the Pew Internet and American Life Project in Washington. Larry Peterson, Professor and Chair for the Department of Computer Science at Princeton University and Director of the Plant Lab Consortium and experiment into new networking technologies.
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i'm going to, have - i've run out of time i'm going to thank all of you tim wu professor of law columbia and co-author of the book who controls the internet: illusions. of a borderless world john corrigan associate director. of research at the pew internet and, american life project in, washington larry peterson professor, and, chair for the department of, computer science at princeton university and director of the, plant lab consortium and. experiment into new networking,
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I'm going to have - I've run out of, time I'm going, to thank all of you Tim Wu Professor of Law Columbia and co-author of the book Who Controls the Internet: Illusions of a Borderless World John Corrigan Associate Director of Research at the Pew Internet and American, Life Project in Washington Larry, Peterson Professor and Chair for the Department of Computer Science at Princeton University and Director; of the Plant Lab Consortium and experiment. into new networking.
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i'm going to have - i've run out of time, i'm going to thank all of you. tim wu, professor of law, columbia, and co-author of the book who controls the internet: illusions of a borderless world. john corrigan, associate director of research at the pew internet and american life project in washington. larry peterson, professor and chair for the department of computer science at princeton university and director of the plant lab consortium and experiment into new networking technologies.
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Thank you all for joining us today.
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thank you all for joining us
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Thank you all for joining us
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thank you all for joining us today.
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When we come back, we're going to talk about one application on the Internet that's been picking up a lot of steam recently, voice-over IP, telephone over the Internet. We talked about it a little briefly. We're going to tell you how to do it if you'd like to, what your options are if you'd like to try calling. Stay with us, we'll be right back.
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when we come back we're going to; talk about one application on the internet that's been picking up a lot. of steam recently voice-over, ip telephone over the internet we talked about it a little briefly we're going to tell you how to do, it if you'd like to what your options are if you'd like to try calling stay. with us we'll be right.
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When we, come back we're going to, talk about one application on the Internet that's been picking, up a lot of steam recently voice-over IP telephone over the Internet We talked. about it a little briefly We're going to tell you how, to do it if you'd like to what your options are if you'd like, to try calling Stay with us we'll be right,
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when we come back, we're going to talk about one application on the internet that's been picking up a lot of steam recently, voice-over ip, telephone over the internet. we talked about it a little briefly. we're going to tell you how to do it if you'd like to, what your options are if you'd like to try calling. stay with us, we'll be right back.
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This is WEEKEND EDITION from NPR News. I'm Scott Simon.
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this is weekend edition from npr. news i'm scott
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This is WEEKEND EDITION from NPR News I'm Scott
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this is weekend edition from npr news. i'm scott simon.
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One of those grandsons is Daniel's young son, who was an infant when he fell ill fleeing last year. He's doing much better now.
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one of those. grandsons is daniel's young son who was an infant when he fell ill fleeing last year he's doing much better
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One. of those grandsons is Daniel's young, son who. was an infant when he fell ill fleeing last year He's doing much better
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one of those grandsons is daniel's young son, who was an infant when he fell ill fleeing last year. he's doing much better now.
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He can speak some few words now - daddy, mommy. And he's acting like the way I was acting when I was a child. (Laughter) So I can see myself in him.
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he can speak some few words now - daddy, mommy and he's acting like the way i was acting when. i was a child (laughter) so i can see myself in
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He can speak some few words now - daddy mommy And. he's acting like the way I was acting when I was a child (Laughter) So I can see myself in
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he can speak some few words now - daddy, mommy. and he's acting like the way i was acting when i was a child. (laughter) so i can see myself in him.
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That's great.
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that's
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That's
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that's great.
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Daniel's dream is that his son and wife can join Daniel's father and all can move back to South Sudan sometime in 2015. For now, Daniel's been taking trips in and out of the war-torn country, working with a nonprofit group called Project Education South Sudan. The group builds schools. In the area of South Sudan where Daniel's been working, 3,000 boys and girls have been out of class for a year now. Daniel sees hope in the story of one girl. She's 16. Her family so far has supported her completing her education before she marries. Her name is Anna.
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daniel's dream is that his son and wife can join. daniel's father and all can move back to south sudan sometime in 2015. for now, daniel's been taking trips in and out of the war-torn country working, with a nonprofit group called project, education south sudan the group builds schools in the area of south sudan where daniel's been working 3,000 boys and girls have been out of class for a year now daniel sees hope in the story of one, girl she's 16. her family so far has supported her completing her education before she marries her name is
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Daniel's dream is that his son and wife can join Daniel's father, and, all can move back to South Sudan sometime in 2015. For now Daniel's been taking trips in and out of the war-torn. country working with a nonprofit, group called Project Education South Sudan The group builds schools In the area of South Sudan where Daniel's been working 3,000 boys, and girls have been out of class for a year now Daniel sees hope. in the story of one girl She's 16. Her family so far has supported her completing her education before she marries Her name is
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daniel's dream is that his son and wife can join daniel's father and all can move back to south sudan sometime in 2015. for now, daniel's been taking trips in and out of the war-torn country, working with a nonprofit group called project education south sudan. the group builds schools. in the area of south sudan where daniel's been working, 3,000 boys and girls have been out of class for a year now. daniel sees hope in the story of one girl. she's 16. her family so far has supported her completing her education before she marries. her name is anna.
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And Anna is from the same community that I was born from. And she has three brothers and a mother. Her father was killed still in the civil war when Sudan was fighting. Anna did not have that much opportunity to go to schools. And what move me about her is a passion of education. You know, education for a girl in South Sudan is not that much. Girls are considered to be married only and start a family.
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and anna is from the, same community that i was born from and she has three brothers and a mother her father. was killed still in, the civil war when sudan was fighting, anna did not have that much opportunity to; go to schools and what move me about her is a passion of education you know education for a girl in south sudan is not that much girls are considered to be married. only and start a
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And Anna is from the same community that I; was born from And she has three brothers and a mother Her. father was killed still in, the civil war when Sudan was fighting Anna did not have that much opportunity to go to schools And what move. me about her is a passion of education You know education for a girl in South Sudan is not that much Girls, are considered to be married only, and start a
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and anna is from the same community that i was born from. and she has three brothers and a mother. her father was killed still in the civil war when sudan was fighting. anna did not have that much opportunity to go to schools. and what move me about her is a passion of education. you know, education for a girl in south sudan is not that much. girls are considered to be married only and start a family.
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But now Anna could see her future coming. And she want to be a doctor. She's very good in sciences and languages. These three brothers of her promise her that, we will never ever push you to be married. We want you to go to school. So when I see her in a class of 50 boys and she's the only girl in that class - and she will manage to get to the top of the class - I feel as if we are changing the nation.
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but now anna could see her future coming and she want to be a doctor. she's very good; in sciences and, languages these three brothers of her promise her that we will never ever, push you to be married we want you to. go to school so when i see her in a class of 50 boys and she's the only girl in that class - and she will manage to get to the top of the class - i feel as if we are changing the.
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But now Anna could see her future coming And she want to be a doctor She's very; good in sciences and languages These three brothers of her promise her, that we will never ever push you to be married We want, you to go to school So when I, see her in a class of. 50 boys, and she's the only girl in that class - and she will manage to get to the top of; the class - I feel as if we are changing the
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but now anna could see her future coming. and she want to be a doctor. she's very good in sciences and languages. these three brothers of her promise her that, we will never ever push you to be married. we want you to go to school. so when i see her in a class of 50 boys and she's the only girl in that class - and she will manage to get to the top of the class - i feel as if we are changing the nation.
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