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of which an account may be given, as I have already promised, at some
other time; for, at present, I intend only to relate those particulars
that he told us, of the manners and laws of the Utopians: but I will
begin with the occasion that led us to speak of that commonwealth. After
Raphael had discoursed with great judgment on the many errors that were
both among us and these nations, had treated of the wise institutions
both here and there, and had spoken as distinctly of the customs and
government of every nation through which he had past, as if he had spent
his whole life in it, Peter, being struck with admiration, said, "I
wonder, Raphael, how it comes that you enter into no king's service, for
I am sure there are none to whom you would not be very acceptable; for
your learning and knowledge, both of men and things, is such, that you
would not only entertain them very pleasantly, but be of great use to
them, by the examples you could set before them, and the advices you
could give them; and by this means you would both serve your own
interest, and be of great use to all your friends." "As for my friends,"
answered he, "I need not be much concerned, having already done for them
all that was incumbent on me; for when I was not only in good health, but
fresh and young, I distributed that among my kindred and friends which
other people do not part with till they are old and sick: when they then
unwillingly give that which they can enjoy no longer themselves. I think
my friends ought to rest contented with this, and not to expect that for
their sakes I should enslave myself to any king whatsoever." "Soft and
fair!" said Peter; "I do not mean that you should be a slave to any king,
but only that you should assist them and be useful to them." "The change
of the word," said he, "does not alter the matter." "But term it as you
will," replied Peter, "I do not see any other way in which you can be so
useful, both in private to your friends and to the public, and by which
you can make your own condition happier." "Happier?" answered Raphael,
"is that to be compassed in a way so abhorrent to my genius? Now I live
as I will, to which I believe, few courtiers can pretend; and there are
so many that court the favour of great men, that there will be no great
loss if they are not troubled either with me or with others of my
temper." Upon this, said I, "I perceive, Raphael, that you neither
desire wealth nor greatness; and, indeed, I value and admire such a man
much more than I do any of the great men in the world. Yet I think you
would do what would well become so generous and philosophical a soul as
yours is, if you would apply your time and thoughts to public affairs,
even though you may happen to find it a little uneasy to yourself; and
this you can never do with so much advantage as by being taken into the
council of some great prince and putting him on noble and worthy actions,
which I know you would do if you were in such a post; for the springs
both of good and evil flow from the prince over a whole nation, as from a
lasting fountain. So much learning as you have, even without practice in
affairs, or so great a practice as you have had, without any other
learning, would render you a very fit counsellor to any king whatsoever."
"You are doubly mistaken," said he, "Mr. More, both in your opinion of me
and in the judgment you make of things: for as I have not that capacity
that you fancy I have, so if I had it, the public would not be one jot
the better when I had sacrificed my quiet to it. For most princes apply
themselves more to affairs of war than to the useful arts of peace; and
in these I neither have any knowledge, nor do I much desire it; they are
generally more set on acquiring new kingdoms, right or wrong, than on
governing well those they possess: and, among the ministers of princes,
there are none that are not so wise as to need no assistance, or at
least, that do not think themselves so wise that they imagine they need
none; and if they court any, it is only those for whom the prince has
much personal favour, whom by their fawning and flatteries they endeavour
to fix to their own interests; and, indeed, nature has so made us, that
we all love to be flattered and to please ourselves with our own notions:
the old crow loves his young, and the ape her cubs. Now if in such a
court, made up of persons who envy all others and only admire themselves,
a person should but propose anything that he had either read in history
or observed in his travels, the rest would think that the reputation of
their wisdom would sink, and that their interests would be much depressed
if they could not run it down: and, if all other things failed, then they
would fly to this, that such or such things pleased our ancestors, and it
were well for us if we could but match them. They would set up their
rest on such an answer, as a sufficient confutation of all that could be
said, as if it were a great misfortune that any should be found wiser
than his ancestors. But though they willingly let go all the good things
that were among those of former ages, yet, if better things are proposed,
they cover themselves obstinately with this excuse of reverence to past
times. I have met with these proud, morose, and absurd judgments of
things in many places, particularly once in England." "Were you ever
there?" said I. "Yes, I was," answered he, "and stayed some months
there, not long after the rebellion in the West was suppressed, with a
great slaughter of the poor people that were engaged in it.

"I was then much obliged to that reverend prelate, John Morton,
Archbishop of Canterbury, Cardinal, and Chancellor of England; a man,"
said he, "Peter (for Mr. More knows well what he was), that was not less
venerable for his wisdom and virtues than for the high character he bore:
he was of a middle stature, not broken with age; his looks begot
reverence rather than fear; his conversation was easy, but serious and
grave; he sometimes took pleasure to try the force of those that came as
suitors to him upon business by speaking sharply, though decently, to
them, and by that he discovered their spirit and presence of mind; with
which he was much delighted when it did not grow up to impudence, as
bearing a great resemblance to his own temper, and he looked on such
persons as the fittest men for affairs. He spoke both gracefully and
weightily; he was eminently skilled in the law, had a vast understanding,
and a prodigious memory; and those excellent talents with which nature
had furnished him were improved by study and experience. When I was in
England the King depended much on his counsels, and the Government seemed
to be chiefly supported by him; for from his youth he had been all along
practised in affairs; and, having passed through many traverses of
fortune, he had, with great cost, acquired a vast stock of wisdom, which
is not soon lost when it is purchased so dear. One day, when I was
dining with him, there happened to be at table one of the English

of which an account may be given, as I have already promised, at some

other time; for, at present, I intend only to relate those particulars

that he told us, of the manners and laws of the Utopians: but I will

begin with the occasion that led us to speak of that commonwealth. After

Raphael had discoursed with great judgment on the many errors that were

both among us and these nations, had treated of the wise institutions

both here and there, and had spoken as distinctly of the customs and

government of every nation through which he had past, as if he had spent

his whole life in it, Peter, being struck with admiration, said, "I

wonder, Raphael, how it comes that you enter into no king's service, for

I am sure there are none to whom you would not be very acceptable; for

your learning and knowledge, both of men and things, is such, that you

would not only entertain them very pleasantly, but be of great use to

them, by the examples you could set before them, and the advices you

could give them; and by this means you would both serve your own

interest, and be of great use to all your friends." "As for my friends,"

answered he, "I need not be much concerned, having already done for them

all that was incumbent on me; for when I was not only in good health, but

fresh and young, I distributed that among my kindred and friends which

other people do not part with till they are old and sick: when they then

unwillingly give that which they can enjoy no longer themselves. I think

my friends ought to rest contented with this, and not to expect that for

their sakes I should enslave myself to any king whatsoever." "Soft and

fair!" said Peter; "I do not mean that you should be a slave to any king,

but only that you should assist them and be useful to them." "The change

of the word," said he, "does not alter the matter." "But term it as you

will," replied Peter, "I do not see any other way in which you can be so

useful, both in private to your friends and to the public, and by which

you can make your own condition happier." "Happier?" answered Raphael,

"is that to be compassed in a way so abhorrent to my genius? Now I live

as I will, to which I believe, few courtiers can pretend; and there are

so many that court the favour of great men, that there will be no great

loss if they are not troubled either with me or with others of my

temper." Upon this, said I, "I perceive, Raphael, that you neither

desire wealth nor greatness; and, indeed, I value and admire such a man

much more than I do any of the great men in the world. Yet I think you

would do what would well become so generous and philosophical a soul as

yours is, if you would apply your time and thoughts to public affairs,

even though you may happen to find it a little uneasy to yourself; and

this you can never do with so much advantage as by being taken into the

council of some great prince and putting him on noble and worthy actions,

which I know you would do if you were in such a post; for the springs

both of good and evil flow from the prince over a whole nation, as from a

lasting fountain. So much learning as you have, even without practice in

affairs, or so great a practice as you have had, without any other

learning, would render you a very fit counsellor to any king whatsoever."

"You are doubly mistaken," said he, "Mr. More, both in your opinion of me

and in the judgment you make of things: for as I have not that capacity

that you fancy I have, so if I had it, the public would not be one jot

the better when I had sacrificed my quiet to it. For most princes apply

themselves more to affairs of war than to the useful arts of peace; and

in these I neither have any knowledge, nor do I much desire it; they are

generally more set on acquiring new kingdoms, right or wrong, than on

governing well those they possess: and, among the ministers of princes,

there are none that are not so wise as to need no assistance, or at

least, that do not think themselves so wise that they imagine they need

none; and if they court any, it is only those for whom the prince has

much personal favour, whom by their fawning and flatteries they endeavour

to fix to their own interests; and, indeed, nature has so made us, that

we all love to be flattered and to please ourselves with our own notions:

the old crow loves his young, and the ape her cubs. Now if in such a

court, made up of persons who envy all others and only admire themselves,

a person should but propose anything that he had either read in history

or observed in his travels, the rest would think that the reputation of

their wisdom would sink, and that their interests would be much depressed

if they could not run it down: and, if all other things failed, then they

would fly to this, that such or such things pleased our ancestors, and it

were well for us if we could but match them. They would set up their

rest on such an answer, as a sufficient confutation of all that could be

said, as if it were a great misfortune that any should be found wiser

than his ancestors. But though they willingly let go all the good things

that were among those of former ages, yet, if better things are proposed,

they cover themselves obstinately with this excuse of reverence to past

times. I have met with these proud, morose, and absurd judgments of

things in many places, particularly once in England." "Were you ever

there?" said I. "Yes, I was," answered he, "and stayed some months

there, not long after the rebellion in the West was suppressed, with a

great slaughter of the poor people that were engaged in it.

"I was then much obliged to that reverend prelate, John Morton,

Archbishop of Canterbury, Cardinal, and Chancellor of England; a man,"

said he, "Peter (for Mr. More knows well what he was), that was not less

venerable for his wisdom and virtues than for the high character he bore:

he was of a middle stature, not broken with age; his looks begot

reverence rather than fear; his conversation was easy, but serious and

grave; he sometimes took pleasure to try the force of those that came as

suitors to him upon business by speaking sharply, though decently, to

them, and by that he discovered their spirit and presence of mind; with

which he was much delighted when it did not grow up to impudence, as

bearing a great resemblance to his own temper, and he looked on such

persons as the fittest men for affairs. He spoke both gracefully and

weightily; he was eminently skilled in the law, had a vast understanding,

and a prodigious memory; and those excellent talents with which nature

had furnished him were improved by study and experience. When I was in

England the King depended much on his counsels, and the Government seemed

to be chiefly supported by him; for from his youth he had been all along

practised in affairs; and, having passed through many traverses of

fortune, he had, with great cost, acquired a vast stock of wisdom, which

is not soon lost when it is purchased so dear. One day, when I was

dining with him, there happened to be at table one of the English