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Of course they never lie and use it as a delaying tactic. They are held by "regular" citizens on behest of Hamas | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
My memory is a bit dull, but theoretically speaking, could they have been executed as suspected partisans or spies because they did not wear any military insignia? | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
I don't put that past Hamas, but while they planned the attack, others participated. If you watch the videos from when Hamas breached the fences, tons of regular Palestinians pour through too, even young kids, and it's known other militant groups have hostages. Or had them. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
That sounds like a movie. They must have had amazing language skills to speak Arabic well enough to pass for a native speaker. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
It’s stayed (mostly) the same as the Conventions and much of international law came out of that and we haven’t had a major world war that required revisions since then. Should be noted there were conventions prior to the World Wars but the final major ones happened after. It’s also why you had, in some cases, allied commanders defending Germans- they had done the same thing in some instances (IE: submarine attacks) and wanted a fair shake at trial to set up case law for the future. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
the example you highlighted seems to be the right one and like you said, violation of the law requires it be used for the purpose of “killing, injuring or capturing an adversary”
in this case, the undercover operatives’ mission was to get close to the hostages for the purpose of extraction. theoretically, they could have snuck the hostages out without firing a shot | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
They were literally popping off rocket-propelled grenades from crowded streets of people. Imagine having your cover blown during the getaway and guys with RPGs just pull up on every corner. Insane. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
There is an Israeli show about essentially this unit - it’s called Fauda, it’s on Netflix.
The later seasons are meh, but seasons 1 and 2 are pretty great.
It sounds like a far fetched show when you watch it, then you hear of these things and realize it’s pretty bang on. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
I don’t suppose anyone in this conflict would be wearing a cross anyway. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
But you see how that is a vicious cycle, right?
Feigning civillian status will affect how every other terrorist holding a hostage will act. And not necessarily in the way you want.
Jumpy terrorists means more dead hostages. Not less. And thats the best case scenario. That they become jumpy.
Please remember the reason stuff like this is considered a war crime is not “Because it’s illegal” but “Because it has far reaching and almost exclusively destructive effects for both sides, even if it gives a temporary win.”
Faking Surrender is a war crime.
Sure, you might save a dozen innocents in a daring escape and blow up an enemy military base in a heroic maneuver that gets turned into a movie years later.
But you also basically told your enemies that “From this point forward. Every prisoner is a threat. Kill everyone on my side who surrenders. No exceptions”
Its not about “No one is allowed to cross this line”
Its always about telling your enemies as well as the whole world “I am willing to cross this line, respond however you personally see fit”
That i believe is why Netanyahu’s opposition and ministers stepped down. They see this and don’t want to be responsible for the long term effects of these decisions. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
I doubt it, they aren’t very organized. The disorganized structure of terrorist groups is to limit the damage done by infiltrators but it also makes them inefficient. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
I think the main thing is that the force that did this operation were Yamam, which are police officers, not soldiers. I think from a legal standpoint, this operation was technically a law enforcement operation against wanted criminals, not a military one against enemy combatants. Thus, the Yamam operatives are neither subject to nor protected by the international laws of war. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
That’s what I was remembering, thank you! One of the reasons Skorzeny got off the hook for having his men use American uniforms was Allied officers testifying to say they’d done the same, right? | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
Which level of SERE training are you talking about? | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
Makes sense , but i wonder how they got that far in the first place .every impression ive gotten of palestinians armed efforts is that they kind of half-ass everything but its also probably true they pretty much dont have the resources or ability to really hold a tight perimeter in the chaos. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
Yes but they’ll say Israeli soldiers shot them instead | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
Wow! I've never seen Hamas feign civilian status without their uniforms and fake surrender in hundreds of combat footage videos. Man it'd be crazy if Hamas just started committing war crimes because those pesky Jews were too!! | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
Technically you can whip off the disguise and identify yourself at literally the nanosecond before you start shooting and its still legal. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
That's definitely not the reason they stepped down. The stepping down was planned weeks in advance and there was no fakes surrender so I have no idea what you are on about. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
Well technically Isreal does not give a flying fuck who they kill. You are welcome to prove the 30 000+ civilians were actually terrorists. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
[here](https://v.redd.it/i4x8ycvv9s5d1) is a link to the footage of the rescue. They were dressed as idf soldiers, not "Palestinian refugees" | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
the bigotry of low expectations on full display | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Maybe I don’t get it but I think anything is on the table when someone is trying to kill you, no? | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
[this](https://v.redd.it/i4x8ycvv9s5d1) is the video of the rescue. They were wearing idf uniforms, not civilian clothing.
Not to mention, if part of this hostage rescue includes wearing civilian clothing that is very different from on principle Hamas never wearing uniforms. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
A Toyota is never busted. Just used | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
I'm not comparing them I'm just stating a fact | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
We're currently witnessing public outcry of what special ops can look like in a lot of cases -- a lot of casualties. Because Hamas doesn't differentiate between civilian and combatant deaths, "pro" Pals are claiming hundreds of civilian deaths. Ironically, this is the same group that loudly asks why Israel can't conduct hundreds of special ops to rescue the hostages. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Also, the actual hostage rescue was done in full idf uniforms [here](https://v.redd.it/i4x8ycvv9s5d1) is the video of the rescue | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Yeah, we’d hate for any innocents to die. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
... I see nothing wrong with this lol.
It's a rescue op. Gotta be covert, did they expect a megaphone blaring 'we are beginning the rescue operation, please assume the hostage release position'? | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Police forces also use dum-dum bullets. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
> Wild how the IDF is held to impossible standards
No, Israel is being held to standards of international law befitting a civilized country fighting a war.
It's not that it's okay for Hamas to break the same laws, but in the end of the day, it's hard to expect Israel to be held to the same standard as terrorists. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Once Hamas has no more live hostages there is a good chance the Hamas leaders outside of Gaza will start getting assassinated, while sacrificing regular Palestinians is seen as good by those leaders something tells me they don't want to martyred themselves | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
IDF should have rocked up in full-length ball gowns covered in sequins to blind Hamas with luxury | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Interesting, so that's how you fight terrorists who merge into civillian populations, merge into them yourself.. That's just genius.. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
You're being radicalised by a fucking subreddit. Step back for a second jesus christ. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
People are such snowflakes damn they gotta chill out | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
???
There is no reciprocity in International Humanitarian Law, if one side does wrong, the other doesn't get permission to do the same | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
My step son wants nothing more right now than to move to Israel next year when he's 18 and join the IDF. I'm terrified and don't want him to, but he's so driven by his love of his people. It's quite a sight. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Exactly | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Wouldn't that make the entire area a legitimate military target? | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Actually… when Hamas fighters carry an RPG under a blanket while wearing civilian clothing, we make media campaign out of it.
It’s an interesting question to ask, if there’s a distinction.
[Source](https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1409&context=ils#:~:text=After%20all%2C%20the%20principle%20of,if%20he%20disguises%20himself%20as)
Them be the rules. If you disguise yourself as the enemy or as a civilian person or object, and commit an act of violence, it’s perfidy.
Now.. special forces have operated disguised as civilians for a long long time under every flag you can point to. The problem is how this creates moral equivalence between Israel and Hamas and gives Russian/Iranian/Hamas disinfo and propaganda a leg up. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
True. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Brother I know | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
🤦♀️ | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Not even illegal you mean unless you shoot...? | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Boggles the mind how eager people are to cite a group like the Gaza ministry of health. Anyone with the faintest idea of what's going on knows that they are, quite literally and it's entirety, a part of Hamas. If you ask a terrorist to explain why their cause is just, you shouldn't blindly accept what they say as the truth and base your world views on it.
Those who parrot their reports don't actually care about Israel's or palatine's people or the conflicts. Because it's popular, to fit in, for clout, or they only really care enough to skim through clickbait, I don't know. But if they can't be bothered to even know who hamas is, they don't actually care. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
A covert operation that does not wear military uniform or insignia would not enjoy POW protections under international law. As Hamas has never shown any deference to international law (except as imposed on Israel), it would practically be no different. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
They actually still bombed…after all those bombing that didn’t got any hostages back…which was kinda the excuse for the whole military operation other than “revenge”… | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
They did ..but they just say IDF shoot those civilians.
So win/win for hamas. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
>That being said the state of Palestine is technically a signatory and has ratified these conventions, so theoretically, Hamas being the governing body of a part of Palestinian territory should also be subject to the conventions. **That’s probably something that will be sorted out when the dust settles.**
I smell some real BS with this statement.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Gaza_War
They used the exact same tactics during the 2014 war. How many Hamas members were held to account?
As a matter of fact, Obama increased funding to Gaza after their war, rewarding them for their actions. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Nah you just inferred it. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Maybe don't listen to a propaganda machine like tiktok. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Thanks | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
I don't think that's how Geneva conventions work, is it? | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Do you seriously think the Israelis magically know the location of every hostage? This isn’t a video game. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
There is already a guy in thia thread saying that Israel should be held to very high standard while hamas is terrorists so whatever. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
People want both sides to be held to the same international standard. It's hamas that should be held to the same standard as Israel, not the other way around.
The fact that you even entertain the idea of holding terrorists to more lax standards because they are terrorists is mind boggling. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Should be easy for them to cover since they’re literally working with Hamas. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Oh damn, was he the guy who wrote "Holding Hostages for Hamas for Fun and Profit?" Great read! Whatever happened to that guy? | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Undercover cops don’t show their badges either. It would get them killed. Legality doesn’t really exist in this scenario. No matter how hard the left and the UN tries to push it. It’s merely a set of guidelines. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Various Buffalo Bills Super Bowl Champions shirts. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
I really like how you ignored every word I said and tried to argue with someone else entirely who was actually defending Hamas' tactics.
That is also not an argument-winning tactic, just for future reference.
Just to repeat: Some people aren't going to like it very much when a bunch of civilians die. Yes, it's war in dense city conditions against a modern insurgency. Yes, civilian casualties are always gonna be a part of war. No, that doesn't make bemoaning the death toll invalid.
And yes, you're very stupid for thinking you were arguing with someone defending Hamas. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Disguising your troops as civilians is a war crime too. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
There is a very wide distinction between intelligence gathering and firing rocket-propelled grenades at things, yeah.
Fuck war, plainclothes intelligence gathering is standard practice in law enforcement for heaven's sake.
e: There will be people who will *try* to argue the IDF somehow violated the Geneva Conventions or whatever by doing this. But they won't have a case. They're just making the argument out of sheer stupidity.
Or because they're in the tank for Hamas and don't want to look at this from a place based in reality. Which is an *interesting* choice. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
I feel like that's a very dangerous take, because every country labels it's insurgents as terrorists... Does that mean if you want to secede by force you will never be treated as oppoaing military? | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Did those rules change? I remember reading about British undercover operation where they disguised as Germans... | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
I don't know the law and what applies or not, but I know it's not a set of guidelines, you can be held accountable for war crimes there's an international court in Hague for that shit... | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Palestinians living in the occupied territories are under Israeli military law | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
I swear man.. people that ask these kinds of questions need to have thier right to speak on this issue revoked | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
You come off as arrogant and didn’t make any useful points that were related to the conversation. Look up the concept of a concern troll then look in the mirror. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
The video was from the raid in which they rescued the 3 male hostages. There was a separate but simultaneous raid that rescued the female hostage. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
I know right, can’t believe that people mocking the people their country was bombing was considered bad taste. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Maturing like fine wine. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
I think they would have done the Intel and likely not had weapons | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
You are missing the point that they weren’t civilians troller. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
The prohibition on perfidy applies to more than just protected insignia. It explicitly prohibits disguising oneself as civilians or other non-combatants. The purpose of this prohibition is to keep armed forces from mistakenly killing protected individuals, civilians, humanitarians, or surrendering soldiers. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
They do make mistakes and they do share partial information at times. But I haven't seen them bold facedly lie just yet. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
They're Israelis. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Even [this one](https://x.com/BrownellsInc/status/885506228159483904)? | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Both sides should be held up to the same standards.
Don't criticise Israel if you don't criticise Hamas, and vice versa.
Yes, Hamas has proven it doesn't care about law or ethics. Its wearing of civilian clothing while fighting must be criticised whenever seen, regardless. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
The distortion of reality is truly amazing. I usually ask them to provide concrete evidence that a single hospital has been destroyed | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
They literally got over 100 hostages back in November 2023 because they bombed Hamas so strongly. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
I just find it wild that Hamas has not held responsible for the deaths, they were the ones who were holding the hostages, they were the ones who started the firefight in a densely populated location, they were the ones firing indiscriminately at the IDF with bullets and rockets, and we have no idea how many of those civilians were part of the attack.
I remember how people were so quick to blame the IDF for every Israeli civilian death on October 7th, because it was total chaos and they were trying to prevent people from being killed or taken, but bullets are going to hit unintended targets in that kind of situation.
So how fucking come Hamas isn't held to the same fucking standard? At this point it just seems like blind hatred of Jewish people, and complete abject ignorance of who Hamas is and how Gaza created this fucking situation themselves. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Not sure if you're being facetious. I think Jews and Israelis know that the IDF is not perfect. No army is. IDF makes mistakes too. The WCK tragedy is an example of this. And partial information, like what we saw with what the Palestinians call the "Rafah tent massacre". IDF shared information gradually and we still don't 100% know what happened there.
Still, IDF is fairly transparent, follows the IHL and as I said I have not seen even one bold faced lie by them. So they are trustworthy.
(Distinguish between IDF command and random soldiers who might act on their own.) | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Really, they don't like it when people die? They seem ed perfectly happy about October 7th? In fact, many progressives were openly celebrating it, and or continue to say that it was completely justified.
I don't think it is possible to use language that these people will ever like. They had been fed lies, and refuge to admit that the information that they are working with might be totally inaccurate, and designed to make them hate their own country and the Jewish people. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Maroon is another popular toyota color among Islamic fighters. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
If that's the case then people missed "refugee" constantly, and we get into the issue of prescriptive vs descriptive definitions. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Jonathan really did a great job at answering that question with a straight face without calling her out on being the biggest brain rot he’s met in a while. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
it is obvious why masquerading as aid workers is bad and will cause harm for innocents and other aid workers there without being a 'hamas supporter' | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
I'm talking about literally every video of them I've seen where they run around in civilian clothing shooting AKs and RPGs, so that when they die, they're counted among civilian casualties. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
Your comment implied that soldiers in the middle east see combat. Since that’s what we were talking about. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-11-06 |
r/worldnews | post | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
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I like knowing that every time I bust, I expel a little microplastics. Be healthy and bust often. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
My girlfriend sucked 37 dicks for science! | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
Try my semen next! | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
Ok ok...I guess you don't HAVE to swallow. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
In a row?? | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
Plastic is stored in the balls | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
On the positive side, self forming condoms. | r/worldnews | comment | r/worldnews | 2024-10-06 |
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