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I do have to brush up on the history again and maybe you do too. Jews were forced out of every damn place they’ve lived in including the land of Israel. They’re not holding grudges and continue to move forward. A two-state solution was proposed 75 years ago that the Palestinians rejected and then decided to attack Israel and start a war. They lost and keep losing every single war. Turns out hate is not as strong as love. Should Israel just neutralize the threat?
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2024-14-06
Yeah, people aren’t holding the right people accountable, this is what happens when people rely on politics to solve problems. People need to be smarter in today’s day and age.
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2024-15-06
You people are full of crap. None of them were hurt when found. Israel has been found to cause more harm to the hostages than their Hamas captives. The Noa lady was shown to be in very good condition. You sick people, they killed over 270people just to rescue four and you are here acting like the 4 were in hell. Palestinians live in hell, created by these same 4 people and their families and fellow citizens. You say they didn’t get food or any protein, whose fault is that? I’ve never seen a more sick society than the Israeli one, blocking food and aid for all those victims of Israeli genocide. And then come and complain that the hostages didn’t get food, when it was the direct result of Israelis and their government. Israel will pay for its crimes one day, and all its citizens that support this will bear the cost too.
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2024-15-06
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2024-11-06
it's not like he can tell them we are losing and our battlefield pressence drasticly droped compared to start of this war.
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2024-11-06
Says the fella who lives underground like a mole rat…
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2024-11-06
Didn't he say it a few months ago as well? Or they are reporting on the same old messages? 
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2024-11-06
The more I learn about that Sinwar fella, the less I care for him
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2024-11-06
That hiding coward has the most punchable face in human history.
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2024-11-06
Bullshit. Hamas is absolutely state sanctioned actors. Hamas is **literally** the elected government of Gaza. Gaza **is** Hamas. Palestinians elected a terrorist group to act do terrorist shit and the deaths they are experiencing is the direct result of that choice.
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2024-11-06
That’s a strange conclusion to reach. You do know Hamas is not separating military deaths from civilians from those numbers right?
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2024-11-06
Unfortunately to most people, the giant is always the philistine.
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2024-11-06
It is a war crime to disguise soldiers as civilians, period. It endangers actual civilians and aid workers to do so, so if you care about those lives I argue it should matter to you.
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2024-11-06
> Netanyahu becoming president probably caused a fuckload of private celebrations inside Hamas. He had been strengthening the Hamas for years...obviously, they wanted him to win.
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2024-11-06
Because, surprise, the leaders of countries and large organisations are generally SMART? No way. Combine this with the fact that the majority of people hold very shallow opinions and you can see why this tactic was always going to work. There was literally nothing Israel can do once the hostages had been taken, they HAD to rescue the hostages, otherwise there’d be uproar throughout Israel. But doing so would require large military operations which is exactly what Hamas knew would happen. The realistic outcomes for this were: Israel doesn’t rescue hostages and they all get executed and Hamas can declare victory to their followers, Israel rescues hostages without war, difficult to achieve since they need intel, Israel declares war on Hamas. All three options would be great for Hamas and shit for Israel.
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2024-11-06
Hamas depended on Bibi overreacting. Bibi was only too willing to play his part.
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2024-11-06
The same people who claim that Jews don’t have a right to return are the same people insisting that ethnic Palestinians born outside of Palestine, are “refugees”. Bella Hadid is a “refugee” 🤣 BTW, I support the right of return for BOTH groups
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2024-11-06
Because the pro-Palestinian movement is not really pro-Palestinian, it’s anti-Israel. I am pro-Palestinian in that I want a better future for the people including a government that is not repressive and, if peace can be achieved, a two state solution (I am wary of peace being achieved at this time). I am on the side of peace and it shouldn’t be a zero sum situation; everyone who sees it as zero sum do not value all human life, they only value the lives of one side in this conflict.
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2024-11-06
Hamas is the kid in the arcade who slaps the buttons while you’re playing, then fall down and screams when you push him away. Then he gets a free Slurpee and $20 in quarters while you get kicked out.
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2024-11-06
While I'm not a Hamas supporter, that's at least better than the ones in Qatar. I at least can have a small amount of respect towards someone who actually is in in the danger zone as opposed to those living comfortably from a safe location while issuing orders to those who lives will be lost.
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2024-11-06
Kinda like the terrorist plan to bankrupt America through war… as if we aren’t gonna be spending that much on military either way
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2024-11-06
I agree that the title is prone to be misunderstood, but still, it's not wrong > I do apologise for taking the title literally Granted
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2024-11-06
I care about the hostages. Hamas has told their soldiers to kill hostages if they see IDF soldiers approaching, I’m fine with them using any means necessary to save those people.
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2024-11-06
The thing about liars is that you can't start believing them even when their lies support what you want to believe. I wouldn't take a single thing this PoS said a fact no matter what it was.
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2024-11-06
Thank you for your crystal ball opinion but my crystal ball says otherwise. The world was ready to blame Israel on Oct 8th and even the most measured response would have been met with condemnation and derision by the UN and a billion muslims worldwide. Not to mention, as soon as it happened, the world would start to deny it was real.
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2024-11-06
Yes. But that’s the point. There is no evidence that Hamas will actually ceasefire; in reality, there is evidence they will not ceasefire even within an agreement.
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2024-11-06
It is indeed on hamas, but not solely on them, the actions afterwards were decided by israel. I dont think they shouldn’t have responded, i think the response just wasn’t the right one. At the same time i have to admit i dont know what would be the right way that actually works. But i am pretty sure this way wont work either to stop hamas.
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2024-11-06
That's like the most ahistoric take you can possibly have. The Palestinians living in Palestine are descendants of mostly deconverted Jews living there. Jews are not one singular people, what about the Arab Jews living in Israel?
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2024-11-06
I wouldn't be surprised if Sinwar fled Gaza months ago via Rafah. There's a reason the IDF took control of the Rafah crossing and the surrounding area, which is porous with Hamas tunnels.
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2024-11-06
They won war and lost the peace.
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2024-11-06
Just because one side is worse doesn't make the other side automatically good. Just because someone offers me a turd or poison doesn't make the turd seem appetizing.
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2024-11-06
That's a bit difficult when one of them is calling the shots and taking over your homeland settlement by settlement.
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2024-11-06
War sucks ass and there is a reason most countries have agreed to rules in ways to conduct war.
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2024-11-06
Israel’s civilian:militant killed ratio, while too high for normal people, is lower than other urban conflicts. Check out John Spencer’s writing. Even in the hostage rescue, the only deaths were those of the people holding the hostages UNTIL Hamas started firing upon the escape and Israel needed to respond to get the hostages out. Those additional deaths are 100% on Hamas (though if Israel was taking Gazan civilians, that would be a different scenario but they weren’t). And I don’t mourn the loss of the family who was keeping hostages; sorry about that. I do mourn the loss of life of any innocents caught in the crossfire between Hamas and the Israeli response.
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2024-11-06
Displayed the hypocrisy of the west on human rights, led to a massive distrust in government and institutions in the west and helped the rise of populism. The refugee crisis that is rooted in the Middle East destabilization caused by American meddling led directly to Brexit which is not productive to the neo-liberal agenda. The Taliban is back in power in Afghanistan. I don’t know what’s going on in Iraq but the war destabilized the region enough that it led directly to a civil war in Syria and the rise of ISIS. That’s not to mention the staggering amount of money wasted on those two useless wars. Saudi Arabia is completely untethered from US control, can do what it wants and is even spending billions whitewashing its abhorrent humans rights records through sports. The post 9/11 American foreign policy was an utter disaster for not just America, but the west in general, just as Osama Bin Laden hoped.
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2024-11-06
Those people justifying Hamas actions are also wrong. I ignored those lines because people are justifying what Israel is doing because some other people are justifying Hamas actions. I just stated what a responsible armed forces should be doing. Just because the others are wrong, one cannot do the wrong thing. Pakistan terrorists have killed 11 civilians including a 2 year old child just two days ago in India, but our armed forces cannot do the same, otherwise India will also be in the same league as Pakistan. US army also showed commendable restraint in Afghanistan. This is how professional armed forces work.
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2024-11-06
Here is what I view as the most frustrating part of this in the US: All of the protest leaders that care so deeply about civilian lives would likely twist themselves into knots to justify what Sinwar is saying. Their morality is 100% conditional. They will say that it’s not antisemitism and likely believe themselves but they don’t realize that they are deeply hurting their Jewish friends and neighbors so is it really *not* antisemitism when Jewish people are being blamed for civilian deaths that the leaders of these protest groups don’t even actually care about. 
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2024-11-06
I mean there's a trillion sources on this. I've lived in Israel and studied this topic at length. Hamas has had at most support of maybe 30-40% of Palestinians. They do not hold fair elections, their democracy index (if they were even a state) is trash and then there are also competing terrorist factions in Gaza. The ordinary people are completely ignored by both of these factions, in fact, many Gazan's are well aware of the fact Hamas uses them as shields. Don't get me wrong, the average Palestinian still hates Israel, but the average Palestinian isn't picking up an AK or C4 and going on suicide missions to kill civilians. Otherwise October 7 could have been way worse
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2024-11-06
That’s a bit difficult to make peace and elect a more moderate government, when one side keeps insisting on your total annihilation
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2024-11-06
Supporting a "right of return" for all descendents of the original Palestinian generation of refugees would destroy the state of Israel, so am guessing you support that also?
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2024-11-06
The fact that Israel doubled down on the destruction of Palestine and every time they said this area would be ok for people to feel safe they would then bomb them is deplorable. It is sad that Hamas knew that this was Israel's strategy and Israel overzealously fed them the ability to fund their terrorist organization for years to come. Both sides are to blame, all of it is insane.
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2024-11-06
There's also a tremendous amount of cynicism towards the west and western values at the moment shaped through loaded and duplicitous terms like "colonialism", "white supremacy" etc (to be clear these are real things, but they're not being used in the way you might think they're being used). This seems to entail the idea that anything that is presented as colonial or involves someone of darker skin in conflict with someone of lighter skin has a clear good and bad guy and is a cause that must be taken up to further the goals of "The Revolution". It's part of the reason why there's so many communists at these encampments on campuses. Because they lump everything into "Oppressors" and "Oppressed" they can form absurd groups like "queers for palestine" (A sentiment that could not be less mutual). Simply because they view anything that breaks down that western hegemony as desirable in order to facilitate the revolution they'll throw their lot in with anyone, no matter how awful they are, if they can farm a sympathetic oppressor/oppressed narrative from it.
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2024-11-06
Who knew people were a-ok with hospitals being used for terrorist purposes.
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2024-11-06
Ah, so the war he was a part of to divide the world is working. Said it day 1, this war is a plant to cause world-wide divide
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2024-11-06
Shout out to the Houthis who don’t even know what they are doing at this point
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2024-11-06
I mean, Israel is well aware of the plan as well and they certainly arent doing very much to avoid giving the world and media reasons for condemnation.
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2024-11-06
That doesn't mean the IDF isn't also evil
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2024-11-06
No but it does often change the application of rules such as using civilian infrastructure for military purposes makes it a viable target and not a war crime to respond to given it is now legally a military target.
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2024-11-06
Some people view Hamas as a resistance movement fighting a more powerful occupying force…
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2024-11-06
You just lie through your teeth. When Hamas took power they only garnered the minimum support at about 52-55%. (Which over 50% was necessary to win) Today, support for Hamas is at 72-78% with over 80% support of the Oct attacks. The ENTIRE country has been raised by terrorists. Their preschools, camps, mail, trash and every other public position is filled by a terrorist. You really think that people raised from birth to hate and kill Jews aren't influenced by that at all? Do the videos of civilians using sticks to beat the naked corpses they paraded through Gaza mean nothing? You're either greatly misinformed or just lying. Do better.
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2024-11-06
Correct, it's not either or, but to you it seems to be both or neither. The IDF has every right to go after Hamas so long as they try to minimize civilian casualties, but the idea that the hostages are Israel's priority flies in the face of their actions.
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2024-11-06
Right?  Hamas was calling all Palestinians in the area to engage the IDF and I have seen multiple videos of “civilians” running into the firefight with assault rifles in their hands.
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2024-11-06
At the expense of having cities and towns leveled the whole way. Bold strategy where you lose a lot/most of your resources.
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2024-11-06
Those people would either be straight up delusional or ok with terrorism and violations of everything they claim to support to justify it.
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2024-11-06
Yes, yes, everyone who disagrees with you is a Hamas loving antisemit, there's no valid criticisms of the Israeli government or the IDF /s
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2024-11-06
You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.
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2024-11-06
Good on Israel not caring what people halfway across the world who dont deal with thousands of rocket and mortar attacks during "times of peace" think. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists\_of\_Palestinian\_rocket\_attacks\_on\_Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel)
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2024-11-06
> An independent Palestine could do whatever it wants regarding a right of return, and it would effect Israel as much as Nepal's immigration policies effect India -- some amount, to be fair, but not an existential threat. Which is why they will never accept it. The goal hasn't been independence for decades. The goal is just to destroy the Israeli state. Independence is just an excuse to justify terrorism.
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2024-11-06
Chesty Puller vibes without the track record to back it up >We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction.
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2024-11-06
this has been the strategy by the arab world since 67, its only recently become very effective.
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2024-11-06
The unreasonable part was taking hostages in the first place, everything else is extra.
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2024-11-06
He thinks Israel is nearing its pre-programed kill limit
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2024-11-06
Saw some especially idiotic comments over on imgur a few days ago saying that finding the hostages was pure coincidence, that the real goal of the operation was to find and kill as many children as possible like some kind of morbid score attack. It's wild how mask-off people are becoming this decade.
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2024-11-06
For this conflict to ever truly resolve itself, the state of Israel, at least in its current form, likely has to end. Religious ethno-states are bad, even if they are friends to western democracies.
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2024-11-06
their goal wasnt a good one, that did anything for them but they nonetheless succeeded in them.
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2024-11-06
Closet gay man can’t come out of the closet due to oppressive religion so the rest of the world has the suffer.
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2024-11-06
Why? Because they won’t release hundreds of terrorist prisoners in exchange for them? Because Hamas won’t surrender? The IDF is doing the only sensible option left and going in to take their people back by force.
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2024-11-06
It's some Zap Brannigan vibes
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2024-11-06
It annoys me that the US spent trillions of dollars fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (only one of which was even tangentially related to the 9/11 attacks), and then is so precious with the purse strings when it comes to Urkaine, despite much of the money involved either being for literal surplus goods that were costing money to store and would have eventually been thrown out, or funds that just get dumped back into the US economy.
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2024-11-06
Imagine being a reliable pawn that helps facilitate terrorism…
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2024-11-06
Israel created hundreds of thousands of pissed off Palestinians that have no friends, no family, no education, no job opportunities, how do you think this is going to play out long-term? Israel will lose if this is prolonged, which it will be.
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2024-11-06
You have far too high of an expectation for average intelligence and awareness given what I've seen in the past decade. Particularly awareness of a conflict thousands of miles away from most people commenting on it.
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2024-11-06
Netanyahu is too. But I don’t see another way than how Israel responded
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2024-11-06
It's Putin's strategy. He is playing 4D chess, by ruining young Americans support of Israel. Check out the pro russian subs on Reddit they're flooded by videos showing the horrors Israel are inflicting on Palestinians. What pisses me off is that when finally support for Israel falters its main beneficiary is Putin. And no to any person stupid enough to suggest that my comments denote support of Hamas, no I don't Hamas was placed into power by Israel they're just reaping what they showed. Karma is a bitch
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2024-11-06
It’s an insurgent forces versus one of the world’s most funded and advanced militaries, you really expect them to be engaging in conventional battles?
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2024-11-06
Israel most definitely cares about international pressure there is plenty of turmoil about this in the Israeli government
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2024-11-06
Redditors literally argue that killing to rescue hostages is "collective punishment", yet ignore the fact that taking innocent hostages in the first place is collective punishment.
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2024-11-06
All of those numbers just verify NPR's numbers and show the original poster was lying..... Again. It also adds the context that a 2 state solution and peace with Israel was WAY more popular before Hamas. Do you read what you put up before posting?
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2024-11-06
If you think that the IDF response is a “blind rage,” then you are so deeply misinformed that I fear conversation is pointless. Anyone with half an eye on the conflict understands that the IDF has engaged in unprecedented civilian-harm reduction strategies like giving warnings to civilians, giving them time to evacuate, and using precision munitions to minimize collateral damage. That’s why unbiased military experts are lauding the IDF for setting the new gold standard from a militant:civilian casualty ratio. And this is all happening in high pressure urban warfare where militants are not uniformed and mixed in with civilians. The Israeli people will not suffer from the eradication of Hamas. The Israeli people have and will suffer if Hamas continues. There are 1200 mothers driving their dead children because Hamas was treated with kid gloves for 10 years. The Israelis are sick of suffering at the hands of the Hamas monsters, and your moral grandstanding from thousands of miles away when, and I say this not to be nasty but just acknowledging facts, you really know nothing about the details of the war aside from the casualty count, is about as useful as a ceasefire.
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2024-11-06
Osama bin laden, years before the 9/11 attacks, laid out a strategy for engaging the united states in an unwinnable war to create terrorists and to cost the united states as much money as possible, while spreading support for radical Islamists. Then 20 years and many billions of dollars later, we left Afghanistan after accomplishing absolutely none of our objectives.
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2024-11-06
I wonder if you apply the same logic to the IDF? Surely their part in the plan is they most essential of all.
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2024-11-06
Who is complaining about only one of them? Hamas and Israel both have blood on their hands. Neither of them are handling this situation with any measure of civility.
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2024-11-06
I mean, yea? No one genuinely thinks that Hamas didn't expect a response from October 7th like this right? They knew what they were doing and it's worked amazingly for them.
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2024-11-06
Literally the civilian to militant death ratio in this war is the lowest in modern day by massive numbers.
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2024-11-06
Dude, It's fucking psycho to suggest that likud and a large number of Israeli politicians actively support causing civilian casualties because they want to create more terrorists. These aren't video games villains, they're people you disagree with who think they're doing what's best. 
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2024-11-06
This is probably the most reasonable and nuanced comment I have read in here, place is a complete and total echo chamber
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2024-11-06
The goal of who exactly? Hamas or the Palestinian people generally?
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2024-11-06
I think a covert operation that rescued the hostages without killing many civilians would have been a huge win for Israel, but I agree that would be very difficult to achieve.
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2024-11-06
Ceasefire, peace, whatever, every one of the Hamas leadership is a dead man walking. Israel will hunt them all down and kill them just like the U.S. hunted down Osama bin Laden. It may take years but all of their leadership is going to be dead.
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2024-11-06
Oh c'mon, this is Reddit, who actually reads the articles?
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2024-11-06
Israel has killed dozens of it’s own hostages I think it’s safe to say this is a war of attrition and neither side gives a fuck who they kill, it’s pretty insanely obvious at this point you’re all just completely biased to one side or another
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2024-11-06
Yeah, race is a social construct. Its all made up bullshit. No such thing as Jew or White or any of it. These are made up categories. Thats why there's confusion. We're making up different things
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2024-11-06
Honest question. How is this guy all alive?
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2024-11-06
Let's not gloss over the fact that the IDF's discipline is way below standard. How many hostages did they shoot already? Under Bibi's leadership they have apparently moved towards being more of a trigger-happy mob with modern western equipment who takes half a day to respond to a disorganized invasion of their own territory. The 'world famous' Mossad intelligence is also apparently mostly useless these days. So yeah the story plays out the way that Hamas predicted, but Israel has also completely lost the script apparently. The sooner Bibi is gone and replaced with competence, the better it will be for all involved.
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2024-11-06
Who is "they"? Palestinians? Lmao.
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2024-11-06
Yes, they would, they would still claim the land should be entirely Palestine and Israel shouldn't exist.
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2024-11-06
I really believe people on reddit use the term strawman without a clue what it actually means.
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2024-11-06
They also don’t know who killed who. Those bodies could be Hamas, they could be civilians killed by Hamas, they could be civilians killed by the IDF, we don’t know.
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2024-11-06
Affect
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2024-11-06
What a knucklehead
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2024-11-06