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That you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.
It’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people."
] |
>
Trump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance."
] |
>
True. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera."
] |
>
Trump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully."
] |
>
If Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc."
] |
>
Trump isn't serving any jail time... | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation."
] |
>
He represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.
For him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.
Trump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time..."
] |
>
I am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety."
] |
>
What do you think of Desantis and Pence? | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better."
] |
>
Pence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?"
] |
>
Proof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics."
] |
>
What proof are you speaking of? | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud."
] |
>
You think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood.
You posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.
You also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?"
] |
>
You didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with."
] |
>
Nobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow."
] |
>
I like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.
Desantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis."
] |
>
not that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him."
] |
>
I don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”.
He has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third"
] |
>
Agree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process."
] |
>
All I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020."
] |
>
Are you familiar with the term delusional? | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate."
] |
>
I feel like it's going to be DT... | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?"
] |
>
Idk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment.
Honestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT..."
] |
>
There is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late."
] |
>
I mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy?
I would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues."
] |
>
So when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit."
] |
>
Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.
How did trump change policy on russia and ukraine? | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all."
] |
>
You think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?
That is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?
Obama tells Medvedev he will have "more flexibility" after election
Russia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, "No worries, it's cool." You think that wasn't a change?
Did you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?"
] |
>
That is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?
Obama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.
Also, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?
Did you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol
I did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.
Describing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest.
Do you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games? | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol"
] |
>
The conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.
You just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war.
If the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.
And you also just claimed that "you don't know" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.
Thanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?"
] |
>
I heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes! | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith."
] |
>
I don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one.
While he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on "owning the libs". | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!"
] |
>
Tulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\"."
] |
>
Not Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then.
And then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end? | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team"
] |
>
Desantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?"
] |
>
Desantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”.
DeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.
I don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running."
] |
>
The Empire always have a plan wether Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader... Time will tell and things Change. Look at Senator Palatine for example, when the time was right, HE changed into The Emperor and Sith Lord. Even though He could only have one apprentice, he had scores of evil sith to challenge to earn the rightful spot besides him. He even made clones of himself in case he was destroyed. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running.",
">\n\nDesantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”. \nDeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.\nI don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail."
] |
>
John Bolton wants to run. Tom Cotton wants to run. Ted Cruz is always in the discussion. Pence is in good position. Cheney has no chance. Haley is probably a VP candidate for now | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running.",
">\n\nDesantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”. \nDeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.\nI don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail.",
">\n\nThe Empire always have a plan wether Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader... Time will tell and things Change. Look at Senator Palatine for example, when the time was right, HE changed into The Emperor and Sith Lord. Even though He could only have one apprentice, he had scores of evil sith to challenge to earn the rightful spot besides him. He even made clones of himself in case he was destroyed."
] |
>
John Bolton - no chance in hell.
Cruz - no chance in hell
Pence - no chance in hell
to win the presidential election.
Can they win the R primary? Meh?? All three have zero charisma for a position like the presidency. And they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running.",
">\n\nDesantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”. \nDeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.\nI don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail.",
">\n\nThe Empire always have a plan wether Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader... Time will tell and things Change. Look at Senator Palatine for example, when the time was right, HE changed into The Emperor and Sith Lord. Even though He could only have one apprentice, he had scores of evil sith to challenge to earn the rightful spot besides him. He even made clones of himself in case he was destroyed.",
">\n\nJohn Bolton wants to run. Tom Cotton wants to run. Ted Cruz is always in the discussion. Pence is in good position. Cheney has no chance. Haley is probably a VP candidate for now"
] |
>
And they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.
True, but thats not stopping TFG and Desantis's chances of winning. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running.",
">\n\nDesantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”. \nDeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.\nI don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail.",
">\n\nThe Empire always have a plan wether Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader... Time will tell and things Change. Look at Senator Palatine for example, when the time was right, HE changed into The Emperor and Sith Lord. Even though He could only have one apprentice, he had scores of evil sith to challenge to earn the rightful spot besides him. He even made clones of himself in case he was destroyed.",
">\n\nJohn Bolton wants to run. Tom Cotton wants to run. Ted Cruz is always in the discussion. Pence is in good position. Cheney has no chance. Haley is probably a VP candidate for now",
">\n\nJohn Bolton - no chance in hell.\nCruz - no chance in hell\nPence - no chance in hell\nto win the presidential election. \nCan they win the R primary? Meh?? All three have zero charisma for a position like the presidency. And they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance."
] |
>
Haley, Pence, Cruz, Cheney at this point it is a crap shoot. With two heavyweights in the race already it’s hard to have a third candidate enter with serious poll numbers. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running.",
">\n\nDesantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”. \nDeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.\nI don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail.",
">\n\nThe Empire always have a plan wether Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader... Time will tell and things Change. Look at Senator Palatine for example, when the time was right, HE changed into The Emperor and Sith Lord. Even though He could only have one apprentice, he had scores of evil sith to challenge to earn the rightful spot besides him. He even made clones of himself in case he was destroyed.",
">\n\nJohn Bolton wants to run. Tom Cotton wants to run. Ted Cruz is always in the discussion. Pence is in good position. Cheney has no chance. Haley is probably a VP candidate for now",
">\n\nJohn Bolton - no chance in hell.\nCruz - no chance in hell\nPence - no chance in hell\nto win the presidential election. \nCan they win the R primary? Meh?? All three have zero charisma for a position like the presidency. And they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.",
">\n\n\nAnd they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.\n\nTrue, but thats not stopping TFG and Desantis's chances of winning."
] |
>
Useless discussion. The media annointed Hillary (over 3 years before the election) as the front runner. No one else existed. Same now. There is no one besides DeSatan. The media will see to it. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running.",
">\n\nDesantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”. \nDeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.\nI don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail.",
">\n\nThe Empire always have a plan wether Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader... Time will tell and things Change. Look at Senator Palatine for example, when the time was right, HE changed into The Emperor and Sith Lord. Even though He could only have one apprentice, he had scores of evil sith to challenge to earn the rightful spot besides him. He even made clones of himself in case he was destroyed.",
">\n\nJohn Bolton wants to run. Tom Cotton wants to run. Ted Cruz is always in the discussion. Pence is in good position. Cheney has no chance. Haley is probably a VP candidate for now",
">\n\nJohn Bolton - no chance in hell.\nCruz - no chance in hell\nPence - no chance in hell\nto win the presidential election. \nCan they win the R primary? Meh?? All three have zero charisma for a position like the presidency. And they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.",
">\n\n\nAnd they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.\n\nTrue, but thats not stopping TFG and Desantis's chances of winning.",
">\n\nHaley, Pence, Cruz, Cheney at this point it is a crap shoot. With two heavyweights in the race already it’s hard to have a third candidate enter with serious poll numbers."
] |
>
And Obama came out of no where to win the Dem primary.
At this point polls don't mean shit. They've been very wrong for a few elections in a row now. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running.",
">\n\nDesantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”. \nDeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.\nI don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail.",
">\n\nThe Empire always have a plan wether Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader... Time will tell and things Change. Look at Senator Palatine for example, when the time was right, HE changed into The Emperor and Sith Lord. Even though He could only have one apprentice, he had scores of evil sith to challenge to earn the rightful spot besides him. He even made clones of himself in case he was destroyed.",
">\n\nJohn Bolton wants to run. Tom Cotton wants to run. Ted Cruz is always in the discussion. Pence is in good position. Cheney has no chance. Haley is probably a VP candidate for now",
">\n\nJohn Bolton - no chance in hell.\nCruz - no chance in hell\nPence - no chance in hell\nto win the presidential election. \nCan they win the R primary? Meh?? All three have zero charisma for a position like the presidency. And they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.",
">\n\n\nAnd they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.\n\nTrue, but thats not stopping TFG and Desantis's chances of winning.",
">\n\nHaley, Pence, Cruz, Cheney at this point it is a crap shoot. With two heavyweights in the race already it’s hard to have a third candidate enter with serious poll numbers.",
">\n\nUseless discussion. The media annointed Hillary (over 3 years before the election) as the front runner. No one else existed. Same now. There is no one besides DeSatan. The media will see to it."
] |
>
It's Cruz if anyone. No rule says there needs to be a 3rd, but he was the runner up in 2016.
In 2000, the runner up was McCain, who became the next nominee in 2008.
In 2008, the runner up was Romney who became the next nominee in 2012.
More than likely if there's a 3rd candidate it will be like the 2008 Democrats where it's really a 2 person race but there's a 3rd notable-but-not-a-real-contender type. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running.",
">\n\nDesantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”. \nDeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.\nI don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail.",
">\n\nThe Empire always have a plan wether Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader... Time will tell and things Change. Look at Senator Palatine for example, when the time was right, HE changed into The Emperor and Sith Lord. Even though He could only have one apprentice, he had scores of evil sith to challenge to earn the rightful spot besides him. He even made clones of himself in case he was destroyed.",
">\n\nJohn Bolton wants to run. Tom Cotton wants to run. Ted Cruz is always in the discussion. Pence is in good position. Cheney has no chance. Haley is probably a VP candidate for now",
">\n\nJohn Bolton - no chance in hell.\nCruz - no chance in hell\nPence - no chance in hell\nto win the presidential election. \nCan they win the R primary? Meh?? All three have zero charisma for a position like the presidency. And they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.",
">\n\n\nAnd they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.\n\nTrue, but thats not stopping TFG and Desantis's chances of winning.",
">\n\nHaley, Pence, Cruz, Cheney at this point it is a crap shoot. With two heavyweights in the race already it’s hard to have a third candidate enter with serious poll numbers.",
">\n\nUseless discussion. The media annointed Hillary (over 3 years before the election) as the front runner. No one else existed. Same now. There is no one besides DeSatan. The media will see to it.",
">\n\nAnd Obama came out of no where to win the Dem primary.\nAt this point polls don't mean shit. They've been very wrong for a few elections in a row now."
] |
>
Cruz is corrupt, no one will vote for him | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running.",
">\n\nDesantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”. \nDeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.\nI don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail.",
">\n\nThe Empire always have a plan wether Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader... Time will tell and things Change. Look at Senator Palatine for example, when the time was right, HE changed into The Emperor and Sith Lord. Even though He could only have one apprentice, he had scores of evil sith to challenge to earn the rightful spot besides him. He even made clones of himself in case he was destroyed.",
">\n\nJohn Bolton wants to run. Tom Cotton wants to run. Ted Cruz is always in the discussion. Pence is in good position. Cheney has no chance. Haley is probably a VP candidate for now",
">\n\nJohn Bolton - no chance in hell.\nCruz - no chance in hell\nPence - no chance in hell\nto win the presidential election. \nCan they win the R primary? Meh?? All three have zero charisma for a position like the presidency. And they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.",
">\n\n\nAnd they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.\n\nTrue, but thats not stopping TFG and Desantis's chances of winning.",
">\n\nHaley, Pence, Cruz, Cheney at this point it is a crap shoot. With two heavyweights in the race already it’s hard to have a third candidate enter with serious poll numbers.",
">\n\nUseless discussion. The media annointed Hillary (over 3 years before the election) as the front runner. No one else existed. Same now. There is no one besides DeSatan. The media will see to it.",
">\n\nAnd Obama came out of no where to win the Dem primary.\nAt this point polls don't mean shit. They've been very wrong for a few elections in a row now.",
">\n\nIt's Cruz if anyone. No rule says there needs to be a 3rd, but he was the runner up in 2016. \nIn 2000, the runner up was McCain, who became the next nominee in 2008. \nIn 2008, the runner up was Romney who became the next nominee in 2012. \nMore than likely if there's a 3rd candidate it will be like the 2008 Democrats where it's really a 2 person race but there's a 3rd notable-but-not-a-real-contender type."
] |
>
I think Kari Lake will have a surprisingly strong run. She's the right demographic of being a young woman and a political outsider. Her lack of immediate name recognition is an asset to her. She also fires up the correct people by speaking to folks who doubt election integrity. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running.",
">\n\nDesantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”. \nDeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.\nI don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail.",
">\n\nThe Empire always have a plan wether Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader... Time will tell and things Change. Look at Senator Palatine for example, when the time was right, HE changed into The Emperor and Sith Lord. Even though He could only have one apprentice, he had scores of evil sith to challenge to earn the rightful spot besides him. He even made clones of himself in case he was destroyed.",
">\n\nJohn Bolton wants to run. Tom Cotton wants to run. Ted Cruz is always in the discussion. Pence is in good position. Cheney has no chance. Haley is probably a VP candidate for now",
">\n\nJohn Bolton - no chance in hell.\nCruz - no chance in hell\nPence - no chance in hell\nto win the presidential election. \nCan they win the R primary? Meh?? All three have zero charisma for a position like the presidency. And they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.",
">\n\n\nAnd they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.\n\nTrue, but thats not stopping TFG and Desantis's chances of winning.",
">\n\nHaley, Pence, Cruz, Cheney at this point it is a crap shoot. With two heavyweights in the race already it’s hard to have a third candidate enter with serious poll numbers.",
">\n\nUseless discussion. The media annointed Hillary (over 3 years before the election) as the front runner. No one else existed. Same now. There is no one besides DeSatan. The media will see to it.",
">\n\nAnd Obama came out of no where to win the Dem primary.\nAt this point polls don't mean shit. They've been very wrong for a few elections in a row now.",
">\n\nIt's Cruz if anyone. No rule says there needs to be a 3rd, but he was the runner up in 2016. \nIn 2000, the runner up was McCain, who became the next nominee in 2008. \nIn 2008, the runner up was Romney who became the next nominee in 2012. \nMore than likely if there's a 3rd candidate it will be like the 2008 Democrats where it's really a 2 person race but there's a 3rd notable-but-not-a-real-contender type.",
">\n\nCruz is corrupt, no one will vote for him"
] |
>
It's going to be a 20 person field again. Pence, Cruz, Trump, Romney, DeSantis, Haley, Scott, Pompeo, Abbott, Rubio, Rick Scott, and a dozen other people are likely to throw their hat into the ring.
The one wild card factor here is going to be DT because, if Iowa caucus was tomorrow, Trump would sweep basically every primary and win the nomination without even campaigning. So a big open primary is really only possible if he's weakened over the next year by being under indictment. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running.",
">\n\nDesantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”. \nDeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.\nI don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail.",
">\n\nThe Empire always have a plan wether Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader... Time will tell and things Change. Look at Senator Palatine for example, when the time was right, HE changed into The Emperor and Sith Lord. Even though He could only have one apprentice, he had scores of evil sith to challenge to earn the rightful spot besides him. He even made clones of himself in case he was destroyed.",
">\n\nJohn Bolton wants to run. Tom Cotton wants to run. Ted Cruz is always in the discussion. Pence is in good position. Cheney has no chance. Haley is probably a VP candidate for now",
">\n\nJohn Bolton - no chance in hell.\nCruz - no chance in hell\nPence - no chance in hell\nto win the presidential election. \nCan they win the R primary? Meh?? All three have zero charisma for a position like the presidency. And they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.",
">\n\n\nAnd they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.\n\nTrue, but thats not stopping TFG and Desantis's chances of winning.",
">\n\nHaley, Pence, Cruz, Cheney at this point it is a crap shoot. With two heavyweights in the race already it’s hard to have a third candidate enter with serious poll numbers.",
">\n\nUseless discussion. The media annointed Hillary (over 3 years before the election) as the front runner. No one else existed. Same now. There is no one besides DeSatan. The media will see to it.",
">\n\nAnd Obama came out of no where to win the Dem primary.\nAt this point polls don't mean shit. They've been very wrong for a few elections in a row now.",
">\n\nIt's Cruz if anyone. No rule says there needs to be a 3rd, but he was the runner up in 2016. \nIn 2000, the runner up was McCain, who became the next nominee in 2008. \nIn 2008, the runner up was Romney who became the next nominee in 2012. \nMore than likely if there's a 3rd candidate it will be like the 2008 Democrats where it's really a 2 person race but there's a 3rd notable-but-not-a-real-contender type.",
">\n\nCruz is corrupt, no one will vote for him",
">\n\nI think Kari Lake will have a surprisingly strong run. She's the right demographic of being a young woman and a political outsider. Her lack of immediate name recognition is an asset to her. She also fires up the correct people by speaking to folks who doubt election integrity."
] |
>
I’m hoping with DT being put to trial, he’ll lose his privileges to run for president, etc. | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running.",
">\n\nDesantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”. \nDeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.\nI don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail.",
">\n\nThe Empire always have a plan wether Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader... Time will tell and things Change. Look at Senator Palatine for example, when the time was right, HE changed into The Emperor and Sith Lord. Even though He could only have one apprentice, he had scores of evil sith to challenge to earn the rightful spot besides him. He even made clones of himself in case he was destroyed.",
">\n\nJohn Bolton wants to run. Tom Cotton wants to run. Ted Cruz is always in the discussion. Pence is in good position. Cheney has no chance. Haley is probably a VP candidate for now",
">\n\nJohn Bolton - no chance in hell.\nCruz - no chance in hell\nPence - no chance in hell\nto win the presidential election. \nCan they win the R primary? Meh?? All three have zero charisma for a position like the presidency. And they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.",
">\n\n\nAnd they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.\n\nTrue, but thats not stopping TFG and Desantis's chances of winning.",
">\n\nHaley, Pence, Cruz, Cheney at this point it is a crap shoot. With two heavyweights in the race already it’s hard to have a third candidate enter with serious poll numbers.",
">\n\nUseless discussion. The media annointed Hillary (over 3 years before the election) as the front runner. No one else existed. Same now. There is no one besides DeSatan. The media will see to it.",
">\n\nAnd Obama came out of no where to win the Dem primary.\nAt this point polls don't mean shit. They've been very wrong for a few elections in a row now.",
">\n\nIt's Cruz if anyone. No rule says there needs to be a 3rd, but he was the runner up in 2016. \nIn 2000, the runner up was McCain, who became the next nominee in 2008. \nIn 2008, the runner up was Romney who became the next nominee in 2012. \nMore than likely if there's a 3rd candidate it will be like the 2008 Democrats where it's really a 2 person race but there's a 3rd notable-but-not-a-real-contender type.",
">\n\nCruz is corrupt, no one will vote for him",
">\n\nI think Kari Lake will have a surprisingly strong run. She's the right demographic of being a young woman and a political outsider. Her lack of immediate name recognition is an asset to her. She also fires up the correct people by speaking to folks who doubt election integrity.",
">\n\nIt's going to be a 20 person field again. Pence, Cruz, Trump, Romney, DeSantis, Haley, Scott, Pompeo, Abbott, Rubio, Rick Scott, and a dozen other people are likely to throw their hat into the ring. \nThe one wild card factor here is going to be DT because, if Iowa caucus was tomorrow, Trump would sweep basically every primary and win the nomination without even campaigning. So a big open primary is really only possible if he's weakened over the next year by being under indictment."
] |
>
I wonder since joining the Republican Party if Tulsi Gabbard (spelling) would run in 2024? | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running.",
">\n\nDesantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”. \nDeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.\nI don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail.",
">\n\nThe Empire always have a plan wether Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader... Time will tell and things Change. Look at Senator Palatine for example, when the time was right, HE changed into The Emperor and Sith Lord. Even though He could only have one apprentice, he had scores of evil sith to challenge to earn the rightful spot besides him. He even made clones of himself in case he was destroyed.",
">\n\nJohn Bolton wants to run. Tom Cotton wants to run. Ted Cruz is always in the discussion. Pence is in good position. Cheney has no chance. Haley is probably a VP candidate for now",
">\n\nJohn Bolton - no chance in hell.\nCruz - no chance in hell\nPence - no chance in hell\nto win the presidential election. \nCan they win the R primary? Meh?? All three have zero charisma for a position like the presidency. And they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.",
">\n\n\nAnd they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.\n\nTrue, but thats not stopping TFG and Desantis's chances of winning.",
">\n\nHaley, Pence, Cruz, Cheney at this point it is a crap shoot. With two heavyweights in the race already it’s hard to have a third candidate enter with serious poll numbers.",
">\n\nUseless discussion. The media annointed Hillary (over 3 years before the election) as the front runner. No one else existed. Same now. There is no one besides DeSatan. The media will see to it.",
">\n\nAnd Obama came out of no where to win the Dem primary.\nAt this point polls don't mean shit. They've been very wrong for a few elections in a row now.",
">\n\nIt's Cruz if anyone. No rule says there needs to be a 3rd, but he was the runner up in 2016. \nIn 2000, the runner up was McCain, who became the next nominee in 2008. \nIn 2008, the runner up was Romney who became the next nominee in 2012. \nMore than likely if there's a 3rd candidate it will be like the 2008 Democrats where it's really a 2 person race but there's a 3rd notable-but-not-a-real-contender type.",
">\n\nCruz is corrupt, no one will vote for him",
">\n\nI think Kari Lake will have a surprisingly strong run. She's the right demographic of being a young woman and a political outsider. Her lack of immediate name recognition is an asset to her. She also fires up the correct people by speaking to folks who doubt election integrity.",
">\n\nIt's going to be a 20 person field again. Pence, Cruz, Trump, Romney, DeSantis, Haley, Scott, Pompeo, Abbott, Rubio, Rick Scott, and a dozen other people are likely to throw their hat into the ring. \nThe one wild card factor here is going to be DT because, if Iowa caucus was tomorrow, Trump would sweep basically every primary and win the nomination without even campaigning. So a big open primary is really only possible if he's weakened over the next year by being under indictment.",
">\n\nI’m hoping with DT being put to trial, he’ll lose his privileges to run for president, etc."
] |
> | [
"Nikki Haley seems like a legit possibility. She has experience as an executive as governor of SC as well as international experience as ambassador to the UN. Demographically, she’s a woman and not-white, which might appeal to a party trying to shed its image as a bunch of old white guys. She’s also the child of immigrants. \nShe’s a good speaker, and she’s on board with all the main Republican issues - so she won’t have policy problems in the primary. She also has managed to fairly effectively straddle the line between MAGA and Republican-classic without earning the wrath of either voting block.",
">\n\nEveryone likes the idea of Nikki Haley but no one actually likes the person",
">\n\nWhich makes her a great candidate for Vice President of an old white guy. Not so much president.",
">\n\nDo you think Republicans would be OK with a woman as VP?",
">\n\nMcCain picked Sarah Palin in 2008, so probably.",
">\n\nPalin was the desperate pick of a nominee who was basically dead in the polls as the incumbent of his party oversaw the worst recession since the 30s. It's hard to use her for a benchmark because a hail Mary is very different from what might happen otherwise.",
">\n\nTim Scott doesn’t inoculate them against racism charges. See Larry Elder.",
">\n\nHe's very good at deflecting them though, not just blunting them but using them to hurt democrats. I could see DeSantis choosing him as veep and them together winning hispanics and rich suburbanites and badly beating Biden. On the flip side, I can also see Trump turning the whole thing into such a shit show that people are exhausted and divided and just elect Biden again. We'll see!",
">\n\nI don’t think DeSantis can win in the suburbs. His biggest appeal is being Trump without Trump. The only difference in choice between a DeSantis voter and a Trump voter is a matter of personality. The policy is the same. \nAnd given that these suburban voters took a sharp leftward swing since 2016, running on the Trump brand isn’t going to win them back. The only way the suburbs return to republicans is with a Romney-style Republican, which isn’t going to happen. If DeSantis wants any chance of winning, he has to repeat the 2016 map with a strong Rust Belt performance with working class whites (and maybe expand upon Trump’s 2020 showing with Hispanics, which would probably give him Nevada). \nHis whole schtick anyway is fighting these cultural battles- “Florida is where woke goes to die” or whatever. Its more of the same that plays well with the white working class, but is a huge turnoff for upper middle class suburbanites. That’s a big takeaway from 2022 as well- the cultural battles tanked candidates in places like Arizona and the Philly suburbs.",
">\n\nGlenn Youngkin did well with suburban swing voters while complaining loudly about stuff like critical race theory in schools. Many voters like that might prefer someone more moderate, but be willing to settle for someone like DeSantis. \nWhereas Trump - a guy saying openly racist things, flirting with white nationalists, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, generally appearing to be a dangerously unhinged ignoramus, and above all attempting a clumsy and incompetent coup - may be a deal breaker for them in a way DeSantis is not.\nAt least, if I was a moderate conservative of the sort whose preferred candidate would be Romney, I could see myself at least considering DeSantis in the general, but not Trump.\nRight now DeSantis is pandering to the base, but in the general he's probably pivot to some degree.",
">\n\nI don’t know how much Youngkin’s win was aided by anger over COVID restrictions in schools as well. The CRT definitely played a role, but I’m not confident in saying that was the deciding factor. Because you look at gubernatorial candidates in the more swingy Michigan and Wisconsin this year where Republicans extensively campaigned on those CRT/education issues, they lost by worse margins than 2018.\nSo I’m just not confident that education is as much of a winning issue as Republicans seem to believe.",
">\n\nWasn't the GOP candidate in Michigan a Trumpoid election denier? And wasn't the guy in Wisconsin also an election denier, who said something to the effect of, \"Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin if I'm elected governor\"? I guess I didn't follow either race closely, but..to me they sound like the kind of people who would scare the kind of voter I'm talking about.\nDeSantis does have a difficult line to go along - winning the Republican primary by convincing that electorate that he's Trump's smarter successor, while not saying too much that will prevent him from pivoting to appealing to moderates in the general.\nI do think we have to be careful about there being a \"sharp leftward turn\" in the suburbs. People who find Trump terrifying are not necessarily liberals now for that reason.",
">\n\nStatistically speaking, the third place GOP front runner for 2024 at this time is Mike Pence. And I don't see him having any potential to compete with either Trump or DeSantis. If Republicans want to get rid of Trump, they need to go all in on DeSantis or risk repeating 2016.\nAs far as 2028 goes, that depends on quite a few things, but I'd say Cruz and Tim Scott would go up in the ranks based on current trends. Haley I feel has and continues to be out of the public eye for too long, same thing that would happen to DeSantis if he isn't President after 2024. And Cheney is never going to be relevant to the GOP ever again, not just because of the January 6th committee work she did, but her voting record these past two years as well.\n~~EDIT: Someone else worth keeping an eye on in the 2028 scenario is Glenn Youngkin. If he wins reelection and Trump and DeSantis lose in 2024, he'd become a rising star (or at least one heavily pushed by conservative bully pulpits) as a more centrist candidate for the GOP.~~\nEDIT EDIT: Wasn't aware Youngkin couldn't run for re-election in 2025 due to how Virginia's constitution works, so I retract my previous point. It's too difficult to predict 2028 at this time, but I'd say Youngkin has the same problems as Haley by then.",
">\n\nPence doesn't stand a chance in hell.",
">\n\nYep. His party tried to lynch him outside the capitol, there’s no way he’s going to win the nomination.",
">\n\nI don’t know if those 2,000 nut jobs are true representation of the party though.",
">\n\nYes they are. 70% of Republicans believe the 2020 election was stolen and that Biden’s presidency is illegitimate. The January 6ers are also a good portrait of the average American gun owner.",
">\n\nSo even if 70% of Republicans believe there was some shady stuff with the election…only 2,000 psychos stormed the Capitol. That’s two entirely different class of people. And you are also oversimplifying gun owners in this country grossly.",
">\n\nI doubt he’d run, but Brian Kemp would put up a god campaign. Not as theatric as Trump or Desantis, but still plenty right wing.",
">\n\nKemp is one of maybe five people worth keeping an eye on. All of us are talking about the race as we see it today, but did anyone in December 2015 think Trump would win?\nThe obvious picks today are Trump and DeSantis in the top-tier, a bunch of people like Hogan, Sununu, Cheney, etc. that have no chance. But the middle tier is Pence and Kemp. If Trump and DeSantis maul each other, there just might be an opening for a \"normal\" Republican, and Kemp makes a lot more sense than Pence - effective, popular sitting Governor, won reelection by a healthy margin in a newly-purple state, and against a very well-funded opponent at that. Depending on the state of the GOP two years from now, his opposition to Trump might even make him even more attractive to the electorate. He's still a solid right-winger, just not a combative, controversial one like Trump or DeSantis.",
">\n\nIn that same vein, add Abbot.",
">\n\nAs everyone in the GOP cult scrambles to be more right wing than the next zealot, a reasonably sane candidate (Romney, Cheney?) from the \"center\" could make some noise...\n...nahh, nevermind. Fantasy. Sorry.",
">\n\nThis Santos guy clearly has something going for him. /jk\nAs a serious answer, I'd say we're too far away from 2024 to know. It'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months. With Trump and DeSantis around I'd expect a third candidate to be someone aiming to distance themselves from those two and go back to more 90s or 2000s style conservatism.",
">\n\n\nIt'll probably depend on what happens in the House in the next six months.\n\nI think this is key. If the House GOP can't get its act together, then Jeffries and his lieutenants need only recruit a handful of the remaining moderate Republicans in order to form a legislating coalition. I can't help but think that such a scenario would utterly demoralize the hard right base and cause many to either split from the party or just stop paying attention. \nEither way, the eventual Republican candidate would be facing some pretty stiff headwinds as they try to explain to the voters why they and their fractured party would be the better choice moving forward. Particularly when the so far left-leaning Zoomers are comprising a significantly greater percentage of the electorate.",
">\n\nBetween Trump and DeSantis egos.....there's not enough room for a 3rd candidate.",
">\n\nPence as zero chance, the trumpers hate him and he has the personality of a stale pasta. \nEveryone hates Ted Cruz; less than zero chance. \nI can see Nikki Haley running but she only has a slightly better chance than Pence and Cruz of getting the nod, Ronny or Donny have that on lock.",
">\n\nIt may well be someone that isn't obvious now. It wasn't clear that Ted Cruz would corral the non-Trump lane at the end in late 2014 or that Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum would be the primary alternatives to Romney in 2012. And few believed that Bernie Sanders would be the primary alternative to Hillary in 2016.",
">\n\nIt’s not a given that DeSantis will run. He legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him. Also he hasn’t been doing anything to raise his national profile and many are thinking he’ll wait. A presidential run is the Swan song of a career in politics.",
">\n\n\nHe legally can’t until Florida changes it’s laws for him.\n\nApparently they're planning on doing just that. They wouldnt think of making these changes if he wasnt going to run.",
">\n\nHasn’t Happened yet. And he hasn’t indicated exploratory committees or anything. Maybe it’s too early. I actually don’t think he will run.",
">\n\nHe hasn't raised two hundred million dollars this year to build a throne with.\nEdit: Not a literal one, anyway. Though certainly a metaphorical one.",
">\n\nIt's a long shot, but I'm still waiting for the Kamala Harris vs Nikki Haley 2024 match up.",
">\n\nThe dynamics of this race would be so fascinating. Two South Asian candidates, guaranteed first female president.",
">\n\nImagine if Trump ran 3rd party in that race...wow.",
">\n\nLiz Cheney should totally run to give somewhere for the sane Republicans to go.",
">\n\nI don't think Trump will be an option at all.\nDeSantis is likely to walk away with the nomination.\nThe only way that I see any other possibility is if the Trump supporters refuse to participate in the election. In that case, I like Liz Cheney.\nI don't think she will win, but certainly she can do a lot to lead the party in a more constructive direction.",
">\n\nJust like hogan from Maryland NH’s Chris Sununu is gearing up to be a moderate answer. Just won re-election with 60% of the vote and has enjoyed very high bipartisan favorables throughout his term including great approval over his covid handling \nThere’s a two faced abortion deal that might bite him but hes likely going to enter the discussion at least",
">\n\nCruz was second to Trump in 2016. I see him holding onto the strong also-ran position. In an anything-can-happen world, he might/could squeak out a win, if DT and RD chew each other up.",
">\n\nCruz is less popular with GOP voters today than he was 2016, don’t you think?",
">\n\nDo not submit low investment content. This subreddit is for genuine discussion.",
">\n\nI like Larry Hogan, out going Governor of Maryland. Successful Republican in a Democratic state. Leaving office with a budget surplus, proved he can work both sides of the isle and is not MAGA. He's likely not extreme enough for the Trump and Disantis supporters, but if he got through the primary and was the candidate, they would vote for him bc they're going to vote Republican either way, but he could pull moderates, independents and even Dems who are tired of the far left.",
">\n\nLarry Hogan is a no-nonsense zero-drama candidate with a great track record. If GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.",
">\n\n\nIf GOP ever wanted a candidate that would be attractive to independents and borderline dems, and never trumpers, he’s the one.\n\nGOP voters have made clear they have no interest in that.\nThey want a candidate who will assure them he'll hurt the right people.",
">\n\nThat you profess to hate Trump but like DeSantis. Trump and DeSantis are both ideologues and stand for the same repressive things, which means that you support Trump’s policies, just wish he had DeSantis’ academic background and wasn’t a dolt.\nIt’s not even a style vs. substance thing because Trump and DeSantis have the same style AND substance.",
">\n\nTrump is far more charismatic. DeSantis pulls stunts but he is a cold fish on camera.",
">\n\nTrue. DeSantis comes off as a whiny, insecure bully, whereas Trump comes off as a confident bully.",
">\n\nTrump ruined it for Pence with the Jan 6 tweet. That leaves Trump and RD as the only viable candidates. It seems like the GOP is having a hard time putting up solid candidates. I’m a Dem, but I really want both parties to get behind better candidates who are serious people. People who want to handle the very real problems we face at the border, with wealth inequality, insurance coverage, skyrocketing education costs, infrastructure, etc.",
">\n\nIf Trump is sentenced and serves jail time, then Liz Cheney immediately becomes the most intelligent Republican in the nation.",
">\n\nTrump isn't serving any jail time...",
">\n\nHe represents a first for many things. Some good, some bad. He defied the odds in many ways.\nFor him to serve time would simply defy whatever odds you've imagined against it.\nTrump required the Republican party to choose a new identity: his identity. Should he serve, Republicans will take on a new identity again. The resistance to that has proven far thinner than most assumed: a testament to both the party's adaptability and its ficklety.",
">\n\nI am a die hard Republican. Anyone but Trump. A sea cucumber would work out better.",
">\n\nWhat do you think of Desantis and Pence?",
">\n\nPence is a weenie. I like Desantis A LOT at this point. A politician who hasn't gotten rich from politics.",
">\n\nProof that most anti-Trump Republicans don’t hate Trump so much as wish he didn’t say the quiet part out loud.",
">\n\nWhat proof are you speaking of?",
">\n\nYou think CRT is a thing in schools, which is a hilarious falsehood. \nYou posted a laundry list of right-wing talking points about DeSantis that seem pretty loosely connected to reality, but that's not surprising after you said CRT.\nYou also support 10 year olds being made to carry rape fetuses to term, so. There's also that uncomfortable fact you have to live with.",
">\n\nYou didn’t read my statement. He is against it. Many people want to teach it. I never said it was thought via a curriculum. Teachers nevertheless believe it should be and often teach it anyhow.",
">\n\nNobody. Pence is 3rd place and has no chance. Cheney has no chance. Cruz will always be overshadowed by DeSantis.",
">\n\nI like neither of them, but Cruz is more charismatic than DeSantis.\nDesantis is just insanely boring to listen to. At least Ted Cruz has a palpable hateability to him.",
">\n\nnot that anybody else has a chance to win unless Trump drops dead or something, but I see Chris Christie as having the best chance of coming in third",
">\n\nI don’t think it’s fair to say that Ron DeSantis has a lock on the first or second position. At this point he’s a stand-in for “generic non-Trump republican with appropriate credentials”. \nHe has essentially no national profile, relatively low name, recognition, and apart from a few Covid policies which won’t be germane in 2024 he doesn’t have a national political identity. His candidacy could very easily fall apart in the primary process.",
">\n\nAgree with most of what you said except for the recognition part. He became popular among the right (and equally unpopular among the left) for his covid policies since 2020.",
">\n\nAll I want to say is that I don't think either DT or RD are going to end up as the candidate.",
">\n\nAre you familiar with the term delusional?",
">\n\nI feel like it's going to be DT...",
">\n\nIdk Abbott? He’s like a nice middle ground between MAGA and the establishment. \nHonestly, barring any major change Trump will be the 2024 nominee. The field’s getting too crowded and by the time people realize they need to drop out it’ll be too late.",
">\n\nThere is absolutely no world in which you can describe Abbott as middle ground. If anything, he's to the right of Trump on immigration and a host of other issues.",
">\n\nI mean yeah, but do voters really care about policy? \nI would say DeSantis, but I think he’s gonna flame out in the same way Kamala did in 2020. Presidential elections are less about policy and more about personality, which isn’t his strong suit.",
">\n\nSo when you say middle ground, you mean in terms of performative antics and playing up to crazy, rather than policy? I suppose that is fair given the lack of policy from MAGA republicans apart from hateful rhetoric. Trump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.",
">\n\n\nTrump did change policy for republicans on Russia and Ukraine, when he became nominee, but that was all.\n\nHow did trump change policy on russia and ukraine?",
">\n\n\nYou think supporting Russia's interests rather than opposing Russia's aggression wasn't a change?\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\nObama tells Medvedev he will have \"more flexibility\" after election\n\nRussia directly attacked U.S. forces for the first time in memory during the last administration, and the administration's response was, \"No worries, it's cool.\" You think that wasn't a change?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol",
">\n\n\nThat is what Obama did, don't you remember when the civil war in Ukraine began?\n\nObama making an offhand reference to his own domestic politics isn't the United States supporting Russia's interests - and you cannot possibly believe it is.\nAlso, what civil war in Ukraine? Russia has repeatedly attacked Ukraine over the last 14 years, but there has been no civil war in Ukraine. What are you talking about?\n\nDid you read the article? A Russian vehicle ran into a coalition vehicle lol\n\nI did read it. They didn't have a fender-bender or fail to yield. A Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one.\nDescribing that as a little accident is more than a little dishonest. \nDo you have any interest in discussing in good faith, or are you just here to play games?",
">\n\nThe conversation you pointed to was between Obama and Medvedev, not Obama and Putin.\nYou just claimed that the Russo-Ukrainian War was a Ukrainian civil war. \nIf the name wasn't enough, you also just quoted parts of the Wikipedia page making clear it was a Russian attack, not a civil war.\nAnd you also just claimed that \"you don't know\" that a Russian vehicle rammed a U.S. one - even though that was confirmed repeatedly in the article I cited that you sarcastically asked me if I'd read. And there's video footage of the incident.\nThanks at least for confirming that you have no intention of discussing in good faith.",
">\n\nI heard they’re thinking of running Herschel Walker. He checks all their boxes!",
">\n\nI don't know if he decides to throw his hat in but Sunnunu would be an interesting candidate if he can gain traction outside of the northeast. Would represent a far more moderate track in the republican party then the current one. \nWhile he has repeatedly denied national ambitions and has stated numerous times that he doesn't have national ambitions the adds showing up in early primary states and recent criticisms of the more MAGA aligned wing of the republican party paint a different picture. Has said in numerous interviews that the republican party needs to ditch Trump and go back towards the path of reasonable governance and not just focus on \"owning the libs\".",
">\n\nTulsi Gabbard has been guest hosting on Fox News so maybe she will go again for the Red team",
">\n\nNot Trump. Chances are that Trump will be in prison by then. \nAnd then the question is who can actually electrify their base. And if no one can, who’s left standing at the end?",
">\n\nDesantis is. Although he hasnt announced hes running.",
">\n\nDesantis is Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio 3.0. Absolutely no one is excited by him, he’s just the current “no personality Trump alternative”. \nDeWine would be a good place to start in the “left standing” category if there is no Trump. If there is a Trump I don’t think anyone beats him.\nI don’t know who else electrifies them if Trump is in jail.",
">\n\nThe Empire always have a plan wether Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader... Time will tell and things Change. Look at Senator Palatine for example, when the time was right, HE changed into The Emperor and Sith Lord. Even though He could only have one apprentice, he had scores of evil sith to challenge to earn the rightful spot besides him. He even made clones of himself in case he was destroyed.",
">\n\nJohn Bolton wants to run. Tom Cotton wants to run. Ted Cruz is always in the discussion. Pence is in good position. Cheney has no chance. Haley is probably a VP candidate for now",
">\n\nJohn Bolton - no chance in hell.\nCruz - no chance in hell\nPence - no chance in hell\nto win the presidential election. \nCan they win the R primary? Meh?? All three have zero charisma for a position like the presidency. And they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.",
">\n\n\nAnd they would be running in part on bigotry & intolerance.\n\nTrue, but thats not stopping TFG and Desantis's chances of winning.",
">\n\nHaley, Pence, Cruz, Cheney at this point it is a crap shoot. With two heavyweights in the race already it’s hard to have a third candidate enter with serious poll numbers.",
">\n\nUseless discussion. The media annointed Hillary (over 3 years before the election) as the front runner. No one else existed. Same now. There is no one besides DeSatan. The media will see to it.",
">\n\nAnd Obama came out of no where to win the Dem primary.\nAt this point polls don't mean shit. They've been very wrong for a few elections in a row now.",
">\n\nIt's Cruz if anyone. No rule says there needs to be a 3rd, but he was the runner up in 2016. \nIn 2000, the runner up was McCain, who became the next nominee in 2008. \nIn 2008, the runner up was Romney who became the next nominee in 2012. \nMore than likely if there's a 3rd candidate it will be like the 2008 Democrats where it's really a 2 person race but there's a 3rd notable-but-not-a-real-contender type.",
">\n\nCruz is corrupt, no one will vote for him",
">\n\nI think Kari Lake will have a surprisingly strong run. She's the right demographic of being a young woman and a political outsider. Her lack of immediate name recognition is an asset to her. She also fires up the correct people by speaking to folks who doubt election integrity.",
">\n\nIt's going to be a 20 person field again. Pence, Cruz, Trump, Romney, DeSantis, Haley, Scott, Pompeo, Abbott, Rubio, Rick Scott, and a dozen other people are likely to throw their hat into the ring. \nThe one wild card factor here is going to be DT because, if Iowa caucus was tomorrow, Trump would sweep basically every primary and win the nomination without even campaigning. So a big open primary is really only possible if he's weakened over the next year by being under indictment.",
">\n\nI’m hoping with DT being put to trial, he’ll lose his privileges to run for president, etc.",
">\n\nI wonder since joining the Republican Party if Tulsi Gabbard (spelling) would run in 2024?"
] |
Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.
Read more | [] |
>
Who else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever? | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more"
] |
>
Yes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?"
] |
>
And Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature."
] |
>
OG mansplainer in the flesh. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more."
] |
>
In his defense it is his show. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh."
] |
>
There is no defense for treating a woman like shit.
Joe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995.
It’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.
Peace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show."
] |
>
Absolute glorious post. You made my day. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers."
] |
>
We still have no answers about NESTOR!
Why did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz?? | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day."
] |
>
It's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??"
] |
>
Kind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ... | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement."
] |
>
Reminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ..."
] |
>
Further proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist."
] |
>
One sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face) | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies."
] |
>
"Flood the zone with shit."
also this, from r/top/... | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)"
] |
>
This doesn’t surprise me one bit. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/..."
] |
>
I hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit."
] |
>
It's called lying. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless."
] |
>
I’m not sure what you mean? | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying."
] |
>
No surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?"
] |
>
Morning Joe! Say it ain't so!
"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!" | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas."
] |
>
Birds of a shit feather. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\""
] |
>
Not a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather."
] |
>
Save for the occasional Jon Meacham sighting, Morning Joe feels like a waste of time. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather.",
">\n\nNot a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions."
] |
>
Upvote for the Jon Meacham mention! Loved his new Lincoln book ... They should give him a show. I love how he entwines history with modern politics. He is an absolutely fascinating storyteller. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather.",
">\n\nNot a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions.",
">\n\nSave for the occasional Jon Meacham sighting, Morning Joe feels like a waste of time."
] |
>
He does have a podcast. Hope Through History. 2 seasons. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather.",
">\n\nNot a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions.",
">\n\nSave for the occasional Jon Meacham sighting, Morning Joe feels like a waste of time.",
">\n\nUpvote for the Jon Meacham mention! Loved his new Lincoln book ... They should give him a show. I love how he entwines history with modern politics. He is an absolutely fascinating storyteller."
] |
>
Gotta admit Scarborogh is creepy though | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather.",
">\n\nNot a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions.",
">\n\nSave for the occasional Jon Meacham sighting, Morning Joe feels like a waste of time.",
">\n\nUpvote for the Jon Meacham mention! Loved his new Lincoln book ... They should give him a show. I love how he entwines history with modern politics. He is an absolutely fascinating storyteller.",
">\n\nHe does have a podcast. Hope Through History. 2 seasons."
] |
>
He was tweeting about how if he loses the 2020 election, it would be considered rigged a good 1-2 months before the election even happened, implanting those seeds into his cult's heads in advance. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather.",
">\n\nNot a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions.",
">\n\nSave for the occasional Jon Meacham sighting, Morning Joe feels like a waste of time.",
">\n\nUpvote for the Jon Meacham mention! Loved his new Lincoln book ... They should give him a show. I love how he entwines history with modern politics. He is an absolutely fascinating storyteller.",
">\n\nHe does have a podcast. Hope Through History. 2 seasons.",
">\n\nGotta admit Scarborogh is creepy though"
] |
>
Two GREAT mindless morons in the same room!!
What a FUCKIN VACUUM !!! Hot bed for cold Fision! | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather.",
">\n\nNot a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions.",
">\n\nSave for the occasional Jon Meacham sighting, Morning Joe feels like a waste of time.",
">\n\nUpvote for the Jon Meacham mention! Loved his new Lincoln book ... They should give him a show. I love how he entwines history with modern politics. He is an absolutely fascinating storyteller.",
">\n\nHe does have a podcast. Hope Through History. 2 seasons.",
">\n\nGotta admit Scarborogh is creepy though",
">\n\nHe was tweeting about how if he loses the 2020 election, it would be considered rigged a good 1-2 months before the election even happened, implanting those seeds into his cult's heads in advance."
] |
>
Joe Scarborough was a worthless piece of trash, long before Trump and Gaetz.
People seem to have really short memories. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather.",
">\n\nNot a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions.",
">\n\nSave for the occasional Jon Meacham sighting, Morning Joe feels like a waste of time.",
">\n\nUpvote for the Jon Meacham mention! Loved his new Lincoln book ... They should give him a show. I love how he entwines history with modern politics. He is an absolutely fascinating storyteller.",
">\n\nHe does have a podcast. Hope Through History. 2 seasons.",
">\n\nGotta admit Scarborogh is creepy though",
">\n\nHe was tweeting about how if he loses the 2020 election, it would be considered rigged a good 1-2 months before the election even happened, implanting those seeds into his cult's heads in advance.",
">\n\nTwo GREAT mindless morons in the same room!!\nWhat a FUCKIN VACUUM !!! Hot bed for cold Fision!"
] |
>
Funny that the monster Joe helped create is now turning on him. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather.",
">\n\nNot a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions.",
">\n\nSave for the occasional Jon Meacham sighting, Morning Joe feels like a waste of time.",
">\n\nUpvote for the Jon Meacham mention! Loved his new Lincoln book ... They should give him a show. I love how he entwines history with modern politics. He is an absolutely fascinating storyteller.",
">\n\nHe does have a podcast. Hope Through History. 2 seasons.",
">\n\nGotta admit Scarborogh is creepy though",
">\n\nHe was tweeting about how if he loses the 2020 election, it would be considered rigged a good 1-2 months before the election even happened, implanting those seeds into his cult's heads in advance.",
">\n\nTwo GREAT mindless morons in the same room!!\nWhat a FUCKIN VACUUM !!! Hot bed for cold Fision!",
">\n\nJoe Scarborough was a worthless piece of trash, long before Trump and Gaetz. \nPeople seem to have really short memories."
] |
>
What kind of dumb feck takes advice from Matt Gaetz??
Has anyone seen Nestor? | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather.",
">\n\nNot a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions.",
">\n\nSave for the occasional Jon Meacham sighting, Morning Joe feels like a waste of time.",
">\n\nUpvote for the Jon Meacham mention! Loved his new Lincoln book ... They should give him a show. I love how he entwines history with modern politics. He is an absolutely fascinating storyteller.",
">\n\nHe does have a podcast. Hope Through History. 2 seasons.",
">\n\nGotta admit Scarborogh is creepy though",
">\n\nHe was tweeting about how if he loses the 2020 election, it would be considered rigged a good 1-2 months before the election even happened, implanting those seeds into his cult's heads in advance.",
">\n\nTwo GREAT mindless morons in the same room!!\nWhat a FUCKIN VACUUM !!! Hot bed for cold Fision!",
">\n\nJoe Scarborough was a worthless piece of trash, long before Trump and Gaetz. \nPeople seem to have really short memories.",
">\n\nFunny that the monster Joe helped create is now turning on him."
] |
>
You could ask Gym Jordan, but he doesn't see anything. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather.",
">\n\nNot a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions.",
">\n\nSave for the occasional Jon Meacham sighting, Morning Joe feels like a waste of time.",
">\n\nUpvote for the Jon Meacham mention! Loved his new Lincoln book ... They should give him a show. I love how he entwines history with modern politics. He is an absolutely fascinating storyteller.",
">\n\nHe does have a podcast. Hope Through History. 2 seasons.",
">\n\nGotta admit Scarborogh is creepy though",
">\n\nHe was tweeting about how if he loses the 2020 election, it would be considered rigged a good 1-2 months before the election even happened, implanting those seeds into his cult's heads in advance.",
">\n\nTwo GREAT mindless morons in the same room!!\nWhat a FUCKIN VACUUM !!! Hot bed for cold Fision!",
">\n\nJoe Scarborough was a worthless piece of trash, long before Trump and Gaetz. \nPeople seem to have really short memories.",
">\n\nFunny that the monster Joe helped create is now turning on him.",
">\n\nWhat kind of dumb feck takes advice from Matt Gaetz?? \nHas anyone seen Nestor?"
] |
>
Critics of Scarborough, including liberal filmmaker Michael Moore and blogger Markos Moulitsas, intimated at the time that the Florida Republican had murdered the young woman.
Oh, I guess both sides are the same. Just not the sides you think. 👀 | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather.",
">\n\nNot a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions.",
">\n\nSave for the occasional Jon Meacham sighting, Morning Joe feels like a waste of time.",
">\n\nUpvote for the Jon Meacham mention! Loved his new Lincoln book ... They should give him a show. I love how he entwines history with modern politics. He is an absolutely fascinating storyteller.",
">\n\nHe does have a podcast. Hope Through History. 2 seasons.",
">\n\nGotta admit Scarborogh is creepy though",
">\n\nHe was tweeting about how if he loses the 2020 election, it would be considered rigged a good 1-2 months before the election even happened, implanting those seeds into his cult's heads in advance.",
">\n\nTwo GREAT mindless morons in the same room!!\nWhat a FUCKIN VACUUM !!! Hot bed for cold Fision!",
">\n\nJoe Scarborough was a worthless piece of trash, long before Trump and Gaetz. \nPeople seem to have really short memories.",
">\n\nFunny that the monster Joe helped create is now turning on him.",
">\n\nWhat kind of dumb feck takes advice from Matt Gaetz?? \nHas anyone seen Nestor?",
">\n\nYou could ask Gym Jordan, but he doesn't see anything."
] |
>
Why does it look like a shitty Mexican all-inclusive there? | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather.",
">\n\nNot a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions.",
">\n\nSave for the occasional Jon Meacham sighting, Morning Joe feels like a waste of time.",
">\n\nUpvote for the Jon Meacham mention! Loved his new Lincoln book ... They should give him a show. I love how he entwines history with modern politics. He is an absolutely fascinating storyteller.",
">\n\nHe does have a podcast. Hope Through History. 2 seasons.",
">\n\nGotta admit Scarborogh is creepy though",
">\n\nHe was tweeting about how if he loses the 2020 election, it would be considered rigged a good 1-2 months before the election even happened, implanting those seeds into his cult's heads in advance.",
">\n\nTwo GREAT mindless morons in the same room!!\nWhat a FUCKIN VACUUM !!! Hot bed for cold Fision!",
">\n\nJoe Scarborough was a worthless piece of trash, long before Trump and Gaetz. \nPeople seem to have really short memories.",
">\n\nFunny that the monster Joe helped create is now turning on him.",
">\n\nWhat kind of dumb feck takes advice from Matt Gaetz?? \nHas anyone seen Nestor?",
">\n\nYou could ask Gym Jordan, but he doesn't see anything.",
">\n\n\nCritics of Scarborough, including liberal filmmaker Michael Moore and blogger Markos Moulitsas, intimated at the time that the Florida Republican had murdered the young woman.\n\nOh, I guess both sides are the same. Just not the sides you think. 👀"
] |
>
I was going to reply, "Just what the hell is THAT supposed to mean?", and then it dawned on me you're referring to a restaurant menu selection.
Had a good chuckle. | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather.",
">\n\nNot a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions.",
">\n\nSave for the occasional Jon Meacham sighting, Morning Joe feels like a waste of time.",
">\n\nUpvote for the Jon Meacham mention! Loved his new Lincoln book ... They should give him a show. I love how he entwines history with modern politics. He is an absolutely fascinating storyteller.",
">\n\nHe does have a podcast. Hope Through History. 2 seasons.",
">\n\nGotta admit Scarborogh is creepy though",
">\n\nHe was tweeting about how if he loses the 2020 election, it would be considered rigged a good 1-2 months before the election even happened, implanting those seeds into his cult's heads in advance.",
">\n\nTwo GREAT mindless morons in the same room!!\nWhat a FUCKIN VACUUM !!! Hot bed for cold Fision!",
">\n\nJoe Scarborough was a worthless piece of trash, long before Trump and Gaetz. \nPeople seem to have really short memories.",
">\n\nFunny that the monster Joe helped create is now turning on him.",
">\n\nWhat kind of dumb feck takes advice from Matt Gaetz?? \nHas anyone seen Nestor?",
">\n\nYou could ask Gym Jordan, but he doesn't see anything.",
">\n\n\nCritics of Scarborough, including liberal filmmaker Michael Moore and blogger Markos Moulitsas, intimated at the time that the Florida Republican had murdered the young woman.\n\nOh, I guess both sides are the same. Just not the sides you think. 👀",
">\n\nWhy does it look like a shitty Mexican all-inclusive there?"
] |
> | [
"Former president Donald Trump began broadcasting widely-discredited conspiracy theories about MSNBC host Joe Scarborough after being prompted by documents given to him by Florida Representative Matt Gaetz, according to former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin.\nRead more",
">\n\nWho else remembers Joe & Mika letting Trump call in and free-associate with his usual bullshit for twenty minutes at a time, with no pushback whatsoever?",
">\n\nYes, they were a big part of normalizing him for a lot of moderate Republicans. Always thought they were all big buddies, must have missed when they had their falling out. Not the biggest Morning Joe fan, but when I watched it back then as breakfast time permitted, Trump's call-ins seemed like a regular feature.",
">\n\nAnd Joe probably still managed to talk over Mika more.",
">\n\nOG mansplainer in the flesh.",
">\n\nIn his defense it is his show.",
">\n\nThere is no defense for treating a woman like shit.\nJoe Scarborough’s a political nonentity who spreads his milquetoast with Miracle Whip and calls it his Extra Spicy Sauce, forever oblivious to the fact that he represents a dying demographic that really truly doesn’t give a shit about the rest of us hence his complete irrelevance to the political process known as modern American politics and the fact that he will never ever be the man he may or may not have been in 1995. \nIt’s not his show, it’s a shitty ratings-based amalgamation of a failed Republican’s attempted regeneration of the glory days of the 90s, during which he could still see the path to the presidency laid out as clear as fucking day and Newt was still his bestest friend ever right up until he wasn’t.\nPeace out and fuck off with ‘in his defense it is his show.’ Cheers.",
">\n\nAbsolute glorious post. You made my day.",
">\n\nWe still have no answers about NESTOR!\nWhy did Matt Gaetz bring an underage boy to live with him, then claim that it's his adopted son but they never bothered with any kind of formal adoption so there is no paperwork. and according to Nestor's facebook, Nestor's father lives in Florida, so why would he need to live with Matt Gaetz??",
">\n\nIt's amazing to me how shit like this can happen in public and the media and everyone just forgets about it. Including law enforcement.",
">\n\nKind of like how everyone forgets about Gaetz pal Gym Jordan. Birds of a feather ...",
">\n\nReminder: Matt Gaetz is a child rapist.",
">\n\nFurther proof that Trump is incapable of telling the difference between truth and lies.",
">\n\nOne sexual predator listening to another sexual predator...(insert shocked Pikachu face)",
">\n\n\"Flood the zone with shit.\"\nalso this, from r/top/...",
">\n\nThis doesn’t surprise me one bit.",
">\n\nI hate how the term “conspiracy theory” is this catch all term to mean completely baseless.",
">\n\nIt's called lying.",
">\n\nI’m not sure what you mean?",
">\n\nNo surprise really, garbage people have garbage ideas.",
">\n\nMorning Joe! Say it ain't so!\n\"These conspiracy theories are not only making people stupid, they're making people sick!\"",
">\n\nBirds of a shit feather.",
">\n\nNot a single ounce of sympathy for Scarborough. He was disgustingly desperate to be close to power during the 2016 campaign and did not care one iota about the fate of the nation. He and Mika showed up at a Mar-a-lago and trump made fun of Mika, saying she was bleeding from facelift scars. Joe was 100% trying to get trump into office in 2016 and is still crushed that trump just didn't care. He's probably thrilled that he is getting some press buzz now with these hearings mentions.",
">\n\nSave for the occasional Jon Meacham sighting, Morning Joe feels like a waste of time.",
">\n\nUpvote for the Jon Meacham mention! Loved his new Lincoln book ... They should give him a show. I love how he entwines history with modern politics. He is an absolutely fascinating storyteller.",
">\n\nHe does have a podcast. Hope Through History. 2 seasons.",
">\n\nGotta admit Scarborogh is creepy though",
">\n\nHe was tweeting about how if he loses the 2020 election, it would be considered rigged a good 1-2 months before the election even happened, implanting those seeds into his cult's heads in advance.",
">\n\nTwo GREAT mindless morons in the same room!!\nWhat a FUCKIN VACUUM !!! Hot bed for cold Fision!",
">\n\nJoe Scarborough was a worthless piece of trash, long before Trump and Gaetz. \nPeople seem to have really short memories.",
">\n\nFunny that the monster Joe helped create is now turning on him.",
">\n\nWhat kind of dumb feck takes advice from Matt Gaetz?? \nHas anyone seen Nestor?",
">\n\nYou could ask Gym Jordan, but he doesn't see anything.",
">\n\n\nCritics of Scarborough, including liberal filmmaker Michael Moore and blogger Markos Moulitsas, intimated at the time that the Florida Republican had murdered the young woman.\n\nOh, I guess both sides are the same. Just not the sides you think. 👀",
">\n\nWhy does it look like a shitty Mexican all-inclusive there?",
">\n\nI was going to reply, \"Just what the hell is THAT supposed to mean?\", and then it dawned on me you're referring to a restaurant menu selection.\nHad a good chuckle."
] |
Foxnews reported that this interview prooves that NPR is backing the left and not fair reporting.....
Fox news complaining about fair news... rich | [] |
>
What a ridiculous criticism
She’s the vice president and an interview is the most straightforward form of journalism there is | [
"Foxnews reported that this interview prooves that NPR is backing the left and not fair reporting.....\nFox news complaining about fair news... rich"
] |
>
We JuSt DiSlIkE hEr PoLiCiEs - Conservatives | [
"Foxnews reported that this interview prooves that NPR is backing the left and not fair reporting.....\nFox news complaining about fair news... rich",
">\n\nWhat a ridiculous criticism\nShe’s the vice president and an interview is the most straightforward form of journalism there is"
] |
>
I don’t dislike her policies, I dislike her. | [
"Foxnews reported that this interview prooves that NPR is backing the left and not fair reporting.....\nFox news complaining about fair news... rich",
">\n\nWhat a ridiculous criticism\nShe’s the vice president and an interview is the most straightforward form of journalism there is",
">\n\nWe JuSt DiSlIkE hEr PoLiCiEs - Conservatives"
] |
>
God forbid black woman is competent at her job. | [
"Foxnews reported that this interview prooves that NPR is backing the left and not fair reporting.....\nFox news complaining about fair news... rich",
">\n\nWhat a ridiculous criticism\nShe’s the vice president and an interview is the most straightforward form of journalism there is",
">\n\nWe JuSt DiSlIkE hEr PoLiCiEs - Conservatives",
">\n\nI don’t dislike her policies, I dislike her."
] |
>
Nothing gets the crazies riled up faster than a powerful Black woman. | [
"Foxnews reported that this interview prooves that NPR is backing the left and not fair reporting.....\nFox news complaining about fair news... rich",
">\n\nWhat a ridiculous criticism\nShe’s the vice president and an interview is the most straightforward form of journalism there is",
">\n\nWe JuSt DiSlIkE hEr PoLiCiEs - Conservatives",
">\n\nI don’t dislike her policies, I dislike her.",
">\n\nGod forbid black woman is competent at her job."
] |
>
Her life is about to change: with Democrats expanding their control in the Senate, Vice President Harris tells NPR's Asma Khalid that she won't need to stay as close to Washington as she has in the administration's first two years — when she was her party's tie-breaking vote in the chamber.
She's essentially losing her power, becoming more and more a real life Selina Meyer Veep. | [
"Foxnews reported that this interview prooves that NPR is backing the left and not fair reporting.....\nFox news complaining about fair news... rich",
">\n\nWhat a ridiculous criticism\nShe’s the vice president and an interview is the most straightforward form of journalism there is",
">\n\nWe JuSt DiSlIkE hEr PoLiCiEs - Conservatives",
">\n\nI don’t dislike her policies, I dislike her.",
">\n\nGod forbid black woman is competent at her job.",
">\n\nNothing gets the crazies riled up faster than a powerful Black woman."
] |
>
Remember when Harris knowingly prosecuted with tainted evidence, went to court over it, lost, sued the judge for personal bias, and lost again?
I voted for her but really hope I won’t have to again. | [
"Foxnews reported that this interview prooves that NPR is backing the left and not fair reporting.....\nFox news complaining about fair news... rich",
">\n\nWhat a ridiculous criticism\nShe’s the vice president and an interview is the most straightforward form of journalism there is",
">\n\nWe JuSt DiSlIkE hEr PoLiCiEs - Conservatives",
">\n\nI don’t dislike her policies, I dislike her.",
">\n\nGod forbid black woman is competent at her job.",
">\n\nNothing gets the crazies riled up faster than a powerful Black woman.",
">\n\n\nHer life is about to change: with Democrats expanding their control in the Senate, Vice President Harris tells NPR's Asma Khalid that she won't need to stay as close to Washington as she has in the administration's first two years — when she was her party's tie-breaking vote in the chamber. \n\nShe's essentially losing her power, becoming more and more a real life Selina Meyer Veep."
] |
>
Wow. This is the first time I’ve seen the vice President in two years. Too bad she sucks and has zero charisma | [
"Foxnews reported that this interview prooves that NPR is backing the left and not fair reporting.....\nFox news complaining about fair news... rich",
">\n\nWhat a ridiculous criticism\nShe’s the vice president and an interview is the most straightforward form of journalism there is",
">\n\nWe JuSt DiSlIkE hEr PoLiCiEs - Conservatives",
">\n\nI don’t dislike her policies, I dislike her.",
">\n\nGod forbid black woman is competent at her job.",
">\n\nNothing gets the crazies riled up faster than a powerful Black woman.",
">\n\n\nHer life is about to change: with Democrats expanding their control in the Senate, Vice President Harris tells NPR's Asma Khalid that she won't need to stay as close to Washington as she has in the administration's first two years — when she was her party's tie-breaking vote in the chamber. \n\nShe's essentially losing her power, becoming more and more a real life Selina Meyer Veep.",
">\n\nRemember when Harris knowingly prosecuted with tainted evidence, went to court over it, lost, sued the judge for personal bias, and lost again?\nI voted for her but really hope I won’t have to again."
] |
>
Used to be the norm for vp to balance the ticket and then be generally forgotten. | [
"Foxnews reported that this interview prooves that NPR is backing the left and not fair reporting.....\nFox news complaining about fair news... rich",
">\n\nWhat a ridiculous criticism\nShe’s the vice president and an interview is the most straightforward form of journalism there is",
">\n\nWe JuSt DiSlIkE hEr PoLiCiEs - Conservatives",
">\n\nI don’t dislike her policies, I dislike her.",
">\n\nGod forbid black woman is competent at her job.",
">\n\nNothing gets the crazies riled up faster than a powerful Black woman.",
">\n\n\nHer life is about to change: with Democrats expanding their control in the Senate, Vice President Harris tells NPR's Asma Khalid that she won't need to stay as close to Washington as she has in the administration's first two years — when she was her party's tie-breaking vote in the chamber. \n\nShe's essentially losing her power, becoming more and more a real life Selina Meyer Veep.",
">\n\nRemember when Harris knowingly prosecuted with tainted evidence, went to court over it, lost, sued the judge for personal bias, and lost again?\nI voted for her but really hope I won’t have to again.",
">\n\nWow. This is the first time I’ve seen the vice President in two years. Too bad she sucks and has zero charisma"
] |
>
Who are all these people expecting the VP to be a firebrand activist? | [
"Foxnews reported that this interview prooves that NPR is backing the left and not fair reporting.....\nFox news complaining about fair news... rich",
">\n\nWhat a ridiculous criticism\nShe’s the vice president and an interview is the most straightforward form of journalism there is",
">\n\nWe JuSt DiSlIkE hEr PoLiCiEs - Conservatives",
">\n\nI don’t dislike her policies, I dislike her.",
">\n\nGod forbid black woman is competent at her job.",
">\n\nNothing gets the crazies riled up faster than a powerful Black woman.",
">\n\n\nHer life is about to change: with Democrats expanding their control in the Senate, Vice President Harris tells NPR's Asma Khalid that she won't need to stay as close to Washington as she has in the administration's first two years — when she was her party's tie-breaking vote in the chamber. \n\nShe's essentially losing her power, becoming more and more a real life Selina Meyer Veep.",
">\n\nRemember when Harris knowingly prosecuted with tainted evidence, went to court over it, lost, sued the judge for personal bias, and lost again?\nI voted for her but really hope I won’t have to again.",
">\n\nWow. This is the first time I’ve seen the vice President in two years. Too bad she sucks and has zero charisma",
">\n\nUsed to be the norm for vp to balance the ticket and then be generally forgotten."
] |
>
I think people have come to expect more headlines from a VP, but the public VP really started with Cheney and the roll has been diled back each successive VP.
It's more that she's more like Gore or Quail, and it's been a while since those guys. | [
"Foxnews reported that this interview prooves that NPR is backing the left and not fair reporting.....\nFox news complaining about fair news... rich",
">\n\nWhat a ridiculous criticism\nShe’s the vice president and an interview is the most straightforward form of journalism there is",
">\n\nWe JuSt DiSlIkE hEr PoLiCiEs - Conservatives",
">\n\nI don’t dislike her policies, I dislike her.",
">\n\nGod forbid black woman is competent at her job.",
">\n\nNothing gets the crazies riled up faster than a powerful Black woman.",
">\n\n\nHer life is about to change: with Democrats expanding their control in the Senate, Vice President Harris tells NPR's Asma Khalid that she won't need to stay as close to Washington as she has in the administration's first two years — when she was her party's tie-breaking vote in the chamber. \n\nShe's essentially losing her power, becoming more and more a real life Selina Meyer Veep.",
">\n\nRemember when Harris knowingly prosecuted with tainted evidence, went to court over it, lost, sued the judge for personal bias, and lost again?\nI voted for her but really hope I won’t have to again.",
">\n\nWow. This is the first time I’ve seen the vice President in two years. Too bad she sucks and has zero charisma",
">\n\nUsed to be the norm for vp to balance the ticket and then be generally forgotten.",
">\n\nWho are all these people expecting the VP to be a firebrand activist?"
] |
>
Please no inappropriate laughing fit.
They're going to go after her ass if she does. | [
"Foxnews reported that this interview prooves that NPR is backing the left and not fair reporting.....\nFox news complaining about fair news... rich",
">\n\nWhat a ridiculous criticism\nShe’s the vice president and an interview is the most straightforward form of journalism there is",
">\n\nWe JuSt DiSlIkE hEr PoLiCiEs - Conservatives",
">\n\nI don’t dislike her policies, I dislike her.",
">\n\nGod forbid black woman is competent at her job.",
">\n\nNothing gets the crazies riled up faster than a powerful Black woman.",
">\n\n\nHer life is about to change: with Democrats expanding their control in the Senate, Vice President Harris tells NPR's Asma Khalid that she won't need to stay as close to Washington as she has in the administration's first two years — when she was her party's tie-breaking vote in the chamber. \n\nShe's essentially losing her power, becoming more and more a real life Selina Meyer Veep.",
">\n\nRemember when Harris knowingly prosecuted with tainted evidence, went to court over it, lost, sued the judge for personal bias, and lost again?\nI voted for her but really hope I won’t have to again.",
">\n\nWow. This is the first time I’ve seen the vice President in two years. Too bad she sucks and has zero charisma",
">\n\nUsed to be the norm for vp to balance the ticket and then be generally forgotten.",
">\n\nWho are all these people expecting the VP to be a firebrand activist?",
">\n\nI think people have come to expect more headlines from a VP, but the public VP really started with Cheney and the roll has been diled back each successive VP. \nIt's more that she's more like Gore or Quail, and it's been a while since those guys."
] |
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