comment
stringlengths 1
9.49k
| context
sequencelengths 0
760
|
|---|---|
> | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans."
] |
Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them? | [] |
>
If you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages.
I mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.
And OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.
The whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?"
] |
>
He definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from."
] |
>
You’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps.
Which brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep.
Also the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.” | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right."
] |
>
I think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”"
] |
>
I was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, "So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?"
Mom: "Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt."
"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?"
"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one."
"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree."
"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it."
What. The. Fuck.
And some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work."
] |
>
My man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13."
] |
>
And compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all."
] |
>
Masterpiece....lmao | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game"
] |
>
You didn’t like Parasite? | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao"
] |
>
It was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?"
] |
>
Definitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch."
] |
>
A movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao."
] |
>
Except that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some."
] |
>
Yeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice."
] |
>
But what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need."
] |
>
I’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice."
] |
>
over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.
No, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes "over"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?
In the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success."
] |
>
To believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid."
] |
>
That’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen.
There’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these.
Have an unpopular opinion upvote friend. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis."
] |
>
OP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. "Joker" was one of those movies. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend."
] |
>
Just watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies."
] |
>
Squid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.
You're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery
It only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.
Do you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?
People in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system"
] |
>
The main character chick that escaped North Korea?
I’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t.
However to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby"
] |
>
Only a tiny minority benefit | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism."
] |
>
The West has been doing the best it ever has. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit"
] |
>
In what ways? | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has."
] |
>
Pretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?"
] |
>
You mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc."
] |
>
For me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing."
] |
>
If there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks."
] |
>
Parasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.
Edit: and upvote for being unpopular. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks."
] |
>
Felt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular."
] |
>
Hello zero reading comprehension.
Or in this case, viewing comprehension | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society"
] |
>
I think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.
In Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement.
The problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.
Then the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.
And Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.
In Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.
Squid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.
Want a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension"
] |
>
Debtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie."
] |
>
Woha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect."
] |
>
I think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys"
] |
>
If your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game"
] |
>
How to misunderstand movies 101.
Take my upvote. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message"
] |
>
Seems like subtitles are tough for OP. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote."
] |
>
Damn, they just flew right over your head. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP."
] |
>
I think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head."
] |
>
I think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one"
] |
>
Wait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?
I thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system? | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this."
] |
>
"But they could've just worked harder"😮💨 | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?"
] |
>
Uh OP working does not equal capitalism | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨"
] |
>
Squid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism"
] |
>
This is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.
No media literacy lol | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring"
] |
>
You are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.
Squid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves.
You can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story.
The creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol"
] |
>
Sorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :) | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to."
] |
>
I think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.
In V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)"
] |
>
“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives."
] |
>
I am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place."
] |
>
No doubts, that film slaps hard | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch."
] |
>
Man you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard"
] |
>
Everyone here defending squid game but not parasite. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around."
] |
>
A lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite."
] |
>
You completely missed the point of Parasite | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any."
] |
>
Sure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite"
] |
>
You realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true "parasite" in the movie | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots."
] |
>
Oh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...
Yeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.
Theres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.
Wow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie"
] |
>
honestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path
Fucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good"
] |
>
I don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN"
] |
>
probably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue."
] |
>
I didn't view the rich family in "Parasite" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats"
] |
>
Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.
I think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.
Capitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me."
] |
>
Slavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man.
The question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves). | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves."
] |
>
Slavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect.
There is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves)."
] |
>
Honestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.
I took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.
At any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price."
] |
>
Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).
Yeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets "paid". | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life."
] |
>
I think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.
Raj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.
Working hard has paid off really well for me. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\"."
] |
>
Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.
Ironic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then.
And hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.
My point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me."
] |
>
Why would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.
As far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society."
] |
>
Elon was not a "one of those CEOs" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.
The idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being "socialist". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a "pure" socialist society you don't have slave workers. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies."
] |
>
Name one pure successful socialist society.
Capitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.
The only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.
I tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers."
] |
>
I feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.
Stay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest."
] |
>
I doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.
For example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news."
] |
>
Lol | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great."
] |
>
I think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed... | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol"
] |
>
capitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity
Hoarding money for yourself 👍
Having money hoarder from 👎
Greed > > > money hoarding=👍
No greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎
This is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed..."
] |
>
I'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited."
] |
>
Can they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently? | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism."
] |
>
It sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it! | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?"
] |
>
Ah yes, socialism (: | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!"
] |
>
Awww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes! | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:"
] |
>
İ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!"
] |
>
So I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please."
] |
>
Might need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness."
] |
>
I would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something"
] |
>
Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.
But the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral? | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value."
] |
>
POV; aa really fucking shitty take | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?"
] |
>
we call infinite growth "earnings" what do you expect from a society like that | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take"
] |
>
If there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable.
Squid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were "easy" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character "won" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.
People CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of "winning Capitalism" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for "losing" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.
People don't see it. They allow for "socialism" to bail out the "important people and businesses" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow "robbing the rich."
You don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that"
] |
>
Eventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET
as you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect
i am fairly certain that we will reach a point like "the great ravine"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space
there is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games."
] |
>
the elites are going to rebuild earth from space
I'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.
However, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.
The people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.
Humanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries"
] |
>
fantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation
if we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding
and thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat."
] |
>
who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos
A sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.
If they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.
You are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.
A space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.
If they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.
So, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore"
] |
>
That’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option."
] |
Subsets and Splits
No community queries yet
The top public SQL queries from the community will appear here once available.