comment
stringlengths 1
9.49k
| context
sequencelengths 0
760
|
|---|---|
>
Vincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture."
] |
>
Selfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact."
] |
>
So, consumers? Like the general public? | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism."
] |
>
This applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?"
] |
>
And what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights."
] |
>
~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism."
] |
>
You're regarded | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it."
] |
>
Regarded as what? | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded"
] |
>
Ha, take my upvote.
But anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered? | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?"
] |
>
I didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?"
] |
>
Jail capitalism haters | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs."
] |
>
Squid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters"
] |
>
I never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive."
] |
>
The one I hate the most is "the platform", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed."
] |
>
Tell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism."
] |
>
YOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie"
] |
>
I don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered."
] |
>
Never heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot.
Pretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again"
] |
>
I haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great.
Both families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other.
While the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house.
Those two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude."
] |
>
the crator said it was talking about getting a job | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique."
] |
>
This is an unpopular opinion. Like it | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job"
] |
>
It was just a piece of bread. . .
Your critique of Parasite is laughable.
Maybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it"
] |
>
The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.
Individual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert."
] |
>
I’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis"
] |
>
I think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains.
Sorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology.
Anyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion"
] |
>
I thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand
Weird, must be misremembering | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents."
] |
>
I think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering"
] |
>
Add The Menu to this list. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse."
] |
>
I always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list."
] |
>
You really just dont understand the movie and show. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well."
] |
>
The most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show."
] |
>
Oh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it."
] |
>
I also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.
Squid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems.
These are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”
The part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all."
] |
>
Seems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤 | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting."
] |
>
You’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators? | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤"
] |
>
Popular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?"
] |
>
did ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites? | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv."
] |
>
JFC. Such a shit take | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?"
] |
>
Lol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes? | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take"
] |
>
Parasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?"
] |
>
I find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things."
] |
>
Those shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system."
] |
>
For me, movies are just for rest, fun.
I've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture."
] |
>
It may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.
Their basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much"
] |
>
You might possibly have a worse take than op which is crazy. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much",
">\n\nIt may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.\nTheir basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well."
] |
>
I have fun 🤷♂️ | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much",
">\n\nIt may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.\nTheir basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well.",
">\n\nYou might possibly have a worse take than op which is crazy."
] |
>
Prob because portraying the actual shit that happens in the name of capitalism would turn people away from capitalism | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much",
">\n\nIt may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.\nTheir basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well.",
">\n\nYou might possibly have a worse take than op which is crazy.",
">\n\nI have fun 🤷♂️"
] |
>
But there are documentaries about that all the time. About the food industry preying on our appetites. About pharma companies preying on our addictions. And yet nobody is asking for capitalism to end, just more regulation and justice against these things. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much",
">\n\nIt may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.\nTheir basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well.",
">\n\nYou might possibly have a worse take than op which is crazy.",
">\n\nI have fun 🤷♂️",
">\n\nProb because portraying the actual shit that happens in the name of capitalism would turn people away from capitalism"
] |
>
Keyword documentaries...not Oscar winning movies | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much",
">\n\nIt may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.\nTheir basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well.",
">\n\nYou might possibly have a worse take than op which is crazy.",
">\n\nI have fun 🤷♂️",
">\n\nProb because portraying the actual shit that happens in the name of capitalism would turn people away from capitalism",
">\n\nBut there are documentaries about that all the time. About the food industry preying on our appetites. About pharma companies preying on our addictions. And yet nobody is asking for capitalism to end, just more regulation and justice against these things."
] |
>
What, Squid game was meant to be a critique of capitalism? I love capitalism and think it's more of a critique of poor people mentality. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much",
">\n\nIt may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.\nTheir basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well.",
">\n\nYou might possibly have a worse take than op which is crazy.",
">\n\nI have fun 🤷♂️",
">\n\nProb because portraying the actual shit that happens in the name of capitalism would turn people away from capitalism",
">\n\nBut there are documentaries about that all the time. About the food industry preying on our appetites. About pharma companies preying on our addictions. And yet nobody is asking for capitalism to end, just more regulation and justice against these things.",
">\n\nKeyword documentaries...not Oscar winning movies"
] |
>
You are the bad guys from Squid Game. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much",
">\n\nIt may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.\nTheir basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well.",
">\n\nYou might possibly have a worse take than op which is crazy.",
">\n\nI have fun 🤷♂️",
">\n\nProb because portraying the actual shit that happens in the name of capitalism would turn people away from capitalism",
">\n\nBut there are documentaries about that all the time. About the food industry preying on our appetites. About pharma companies preying on our addictions. And yet nobody is asking for capitalism to end, just more regulation and justice against these things.",
">\n\nKeyword documentaries...not Oscar winning movies",
">\n\nWhat, Squid game was meant to be a critique of capitalism? I love capitalism and think it's more of a critique of poor people mentality."
] |
>
I’ll do you one better: All satire is stupid. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much",
">\n\nIt may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.\nTheir basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well.",
">\n\nYou might possibly have a worse take than op which is crazy.",
">\n\nI have fun 🤷♂️",
">\n\nProb because portraying the actual shit that happens in the name of capitalism would turn people away from capitalism",
">\n\nBut there are documentaries about that all the time. About the food industry preying on our appetites. About pharma companies preying on our addictions. And yet nobody is asking for capitalism to end, just more regulation and justice against these things.",
">\n\nKeyword documentaries...not Oscar winning movies",
">\n\nWhat, Squid game was meant to be a critique of capitalism? I love capitalism and think it's more of a critique of poor people mentality.",
">\n\nYou are the bad guys from Squid Game."
] |
>
Try platform | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much",
">\n\nIt may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.\nTheir basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well.",
">\n\nYou might possibly have a worse take than op which is crazy.",
">\n\nI have fun 🤷♂️",
">\n\nProb because portraying the actual shit that happens in the name of capitalism would turn people away from capitalism",
">\n\nBut there are documentaries about that all the time. About the food industry preying on our appetites. About pharma companies preying on our addictions. And yet nobody is asking for capitalism to end, just more regulation and justice against these things.",
">\n\nKeyword documentaries...not Oscar winning movies",
">\n\nWhat, Squid game was meant to be a critique of capitalism? I love capitalism and think it's more of a critique of poor people mentality.",
">\n\nYou are the bad guys from Squid Game.",
">\n\nI’ll do you one better: All satire is stupid."
] |
>
Tell everyone you’re a trust fund baby without telling everyone you’re a trust fund baby | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much",
">\n\nIt may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.\nTheir basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well.",
">\n\nYou might possibly have a worse take than op which is crazy.",
">\n\nI have fun 🤷♂️",
">\n\nProb because portraying the actual shit that happens in the name of capitalism would turn people away from capitalism",
">\n\nBut there are documentaries about that all the time. About the food industry preying on our appetites. About pharma companies preying on our addictions. And yet nobody is asking for capitalism to end, just more regulation and justice against these things.",
">\n\nKeyword documentaries...not Oscar winning movies",
">\n\nWhat, Squid game was meant to be a critique of capitalism? I love capitalism and think it's more of a critique of poor people mentality.",
">\n\nYou are the bad guys from Squid Game.",
">\n\nI’ll do you one better: All satire is stupid.",
">\n\nTry platform"
] |
>
as a korean who’s proud of both works and enjoyed them wholeheartedly, this post was kinda insulting :( | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much",
">\n\nIt may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.\nTheir basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well.",
">\n\nYou might possibly have a worse take than op which is crazy.",
">\n\nI have fun 🤷♂️",
">\n\nProb because portraying the actual shit that happens in the name of capitalism would turn people away from capitalism",
">\n\nBut there are documentaries about that all the time. About the food industry preying on our appetites. About pharma companies preying on our addictions. And yet nobody is asking for capitalism to end, just more regulation and justice against these things.",
">\n\nKeyword documentaries...not Oscar winning movies",
">\n\nWhat, Squid game was meant to be a critique of capitalism? I love capitalism and think it's more of a critique of poor people mentality.",
">\n\nYou are the bad guys from Squid Game.",
">\n\nI’ll do you one better: All satire is stupid.",
">\n\nTry platform",
">\n\nTell everyone you’re a trust fund baby without telling everyone you’re a trust fund baby"
] |
>
especially your critique of parasite. like the characteristics of the poor (ie smell) and how the rich are disgusted yet fetishize it. theres so many levels to the movie and i feel like you only touched on the mere surface. i’d recommend watching it another time and then watch a professional’s commentary on the movie to see everything you could have missed. | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much",
">\n\nIt may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.\nTheir basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well.",
">\n\nYou might possibly have a worse take than op which is crazy.",
">\n\nI have fun 🤷♂️",
">\n\nProb because portraying the actual shit that happens in the name of capitalism would turn people away from capitalism",
">\n\nBut there are documentaries about that all the time. About the food industry preying on our appetites. About pharma companies preying on our addictions. And yet nobody is asking for capitalism to end, just more regulation and justice against these things.",
">\n\nKeyword documentaries...not Oscar winning movies",
">\n\nWhat, Squid game was meant to be a critique of capitalism? I love capitalism and think it's more of a critique of poor people mentality.",
">\n\nYou are the bad guys from Squid Game.",
">\n\nI’ll do you one better: All satire is stupid.",
">\n\nTry platform",
">\n\nTell everyone you’re a trust fund baby without telling everyone you’re a trust fund baby",
">\n\nas a korean who’s proud of both works and enjoyed them wholeheartedly, this post was kinda insulting :("
] |
>
"This quarter, one of our big tentpole releases is Capitalism Is Like The Worst Thing Ever, which thanks to our ad campaign's focus on social media platforms, is seeing heavy engagement on YouTube and Instagram. Subscriptions to our streaming platform are up nearly 19% year over year, for the same quarter.
Easily the most-discussed character, with over 200% more mentions than the next contender, is Karl Marx, so at the end of this call, we will review three proposed spinoffs featuring Karl in his own series. Marvel's continued success with Guardians of the Galaxy, however, indicates that teaming up the likes of Engels, Hegel, and Trotsky may prove an even bigger draw." | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much",
">\n\nIt may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.\nTheir basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well.",
">\n\nYou might possibly have a worse take than op which is crazy.",
">\n\nI have fun 🤷♂️",
">\n\nProb because portraying the actual shit that happens in the name of capitalism would turn people away from capitalism",
">\n\nBut there are documentaries about that all the time. About the food industry preying on our appetites. About pharma companies preying on our addictions. And yet nobody is asking for capitalism to end, just more regulation and justice against these things.",
">\n\nKeyword documentaries...not Oscar winning movies",
">\n\nWhat, Squid game was meant to be a critique of capitalism? I love capitalism and think it's more of a critique of poor people mentality.",
">\n\nYou are the bad guys from Squid Game.",
">\n\nI’ll do you one better: All satire is stupid.",
">\n\nTry platform",
">\n\nTell everyone you’re a trust fund baby without telling everyone you’re a trust fund baby",
">\n\nas a korean who’s proud of both works and enjoyed them wholeheartedly, this post was kinda insulting :(",
">\n\nespecially your critique of parasite. like the characteristics of the poor (ie smell) and how the rich are disgusted yet fetishize it. theres so many levels to the movie and i feel like you only touched on the mere surface. i’d recommend watching it another time and then watch a professional’s commentary on the movie to see everything you could have missed."
] |
> | [
"Didn't they have to lie and manipulate to get those jobs because that type of work was otherwise unavailable to them?",
">\n\nIf you take Adorno and Horkheimer into consideration, they basically say that tricking and deceiving people is the mere nature of power and it's abuse. The oldest example they give is the Odyssey from Homer, where Odysseus tricks several people including himself to gain advantages. \nI mean the whole nature of capitalism and neoliberalism is to make deals where in the end you win. It can be both parties, but in the end egoism is somewhat a requirement.\nAnd OP didn't really watch Parasite. Those people worked afaik, also in important jobs but their conditions sucked and they wanted something better. They had the capabilitys and throughout the movie they fullfilled them, but it was their poverty that held them back until they started to lie about their background.\nThe whole message of Parasite was that it doesn't what you are able to do, it's more about where you come from.",
">\n\nHe definitely didn't, his summary is totally wrong. The son gets a job cause he had a good connection to a friend, then the family decided to use his job to get the entire family jobs in order to improve their living conditions. They wouldn't have been able to get the jobs otherwise. They aren't morally in the right, and neither is the story about them being in the right.",
">\n\nYou’re forgetting that in parasite the son was actually a genius and smarter than his wealthy friend. Which is funny because the entire family to some degree had more skills, knowledge, and intelligence than the family they were working for, which tells the audience that none of those things actually matter in this type of society. So despite the son being smarter and helping to educate the rich family he just couldn’t afford to go to college and had to help his parents with bills hence why he didn’t reach his potential. I’d say that that is far from being a failure. Also they weren’t living like kings even when they had those jobs they were still very poor just slightly better than where they started. And In order to secure those jobs they had to step on and destroy other poor peoples lives just to get (a little more) scraps. \nWhich brings me to my next point. Even after all the lying and manipulation they still had their home flooded and were still seen as (smelly and lesser than). They tried to live vicariously through the wealthy people (pretending to be them when they went on the camping trip) but realized they would never reach that level. And even after everything that happened, the son still tried to reach that level of wealth in order to buy the house to save his hiding father, which is the saddest part. They would never be able to do it. Because the wage gap is so deep. \nAlso the issue with capitalism is that “it exist”. It the fact that it thrives off off of the disparity of others. You have to some degree step over other and exploit others to reach certain heights. One of the biggest arguments we have is that if businesses paid worker a livable and far wage than the rich wouldn’t be able to make profit and wouldn’t be able to afford multiple homes. The wealthy would rather destroy the company by downsizing, or laying off workers rather than take a pay cut and we as a society support this because in some way we are all delusional enough to believe that one day we’ll be that rich if we work hard enough “and we’ll buy that house to save our father.”",
">\n\nI think you've shown discrimination is about maintaining power, usually through economics. Like will step on like and exploit like if it means they get a buck. I wish people would open their eyes to this - it's how elites maintain and consolidate control. It's not about black vs white, gender vs gender, religion vs religion. It's all about having power vs sharing it, and capitalism is the current way those dynamics work.",
">\n\nI was 13 when my mom decided to sit me down to talk about my future. When she explained that I'd more than likely have to get loans to go to college, it really confused me. I already knew I'd be 17 when I graduated high school, so I said, \"So...I'll be just starting out in the world at 17 with a load of debt...just to go to college?\"\nMom: \"Yes and then you'll get a good job that'll allow you to pay off that debt.\"\n\"Didn't you go to college? And you're still paying for it?\"\n\"Well, yes, but you'll make so much more money with a degree than without one.\"\n\"But...we're poor. We've always been poor, even with your degree.\"\n\"But we'd be poorer if I didn't have it.\"\nWhat. The. Fuck.\nAnd some people just eat this up, they don't think about it at all. I'm being told to go into debt that I could potentially be paying back for the rest of my life in order to try to be successful. That's just stupid and exploitative to me. But what did I know? I was 13.",
">\n\nMy man, you just didn't understand Parasite at all.",
">\n\nAnd compared that masterpiece to fuckin Squid Game",
">\n\nMasterpiece....lmao",
">\n\nYou didn’t like Parasite?",
">\n\nIt was fine, but I think masterpiece is quite a stretch.",
">\n\nDefinitely not a fucking masterpiece lmfao.",
">\n\nA movie I saw do a decent job at critiquing it was Wall-E. It wasn’t “poor vs rich” but it explained how a lot of capitalism revolves around excess and over-inflation of the value of a certain good/experience/luxury. It gave you quaint yet powerful visuals of how capitalism rips through our planet and isolates us from having human experiences. This was juxtaposed by the final scenes of the movie where the characters get disconnected from all that and are finally able to work toward a common goal for the good of everyone and not just for the benefit of some.",
">\n\nExcept that none of that has anything to do with capitalism. The people chose to live a life of excess, the people chose to value consumption over living, the people chose to be fat and lazy. Capitalism didn't force that outcome in any way, it just allowed them to make the choice.",
">\n\nYeah but show me a modern capitalist economy working well without a bunch of people buying shit they don’t need.",
">\n\nBut what's it to you if they're spending the money they earned on things you think they don't need? Again, it's their choice to spend their money the way they see fit regardless of if you think it's frivolous. No economic model is forcing them to consume anything, they're making the choice.",
">\n\nI’m not debating free will (which saying their choice with that much emphasis could easily be debated), but over consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.",
">\n\n\nover consumption and being made to feel that over consumption is necessary is an inherent feature of the system and a required condition for its success.\n\nNo, it's not and, no, it's not. Capitalism as we know it just means the private ownership of goods and services, meaning the individual is in control of what they produce. Capitalism operates under the laws of supply and demand and makes no prescriptions for the level of consumption needed to continue the economic model in perpetuity. Or, are you arguing that a certain level of consumption needs to be achieved and maintained in order for capitalism to survive and grow? If so, then congratulations, because you've just described every single economic model known to man. Capitalism might benefit from the over-consumption of individuals but it is not an inherent necessity for its perpetuation. Over-consumption is relative to each individual and only becomes \"over\"-consumption when consumption is unnecessary, when acquired products begin to go to waste. Which brings us back to the free will argument because who can say what is unnecessary consumption for another person?\nIn the world of Wall-E, the people became fat and lazy and chose to spend their days doing nothing, consuming everything, and having everything provided for them. That's not capitalism, that's not even an economic model. That's just people being fat, lazy, and stupid.",
">\n\nTo believe that your choices have nothing to do with the systems in which you exist and prevailing ideologies that surround you is, at best, profoundly naive. Show me a capitalist economy thriving with a population that merely and efficiently consume in accordance with actual need. You can’t because it doesn’t exist, and no over consumption isn’t that hard to quantify. Excess and waste is absolutely a condition precedent for the success of the economic system. Wall-e is positing that this its opening is the inevitable outcome of a particular consumer mentality taken to its furthest extent and it’s not wrong. And of course that consumer mentality is more likely to exist and be cultivated and engrained within a capitalistic system. To just boil it down to something so reductive and limited as “well this was their choice” is just lazy analysis.",
">\n\nThat’s two of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. \nThere’s a difference between listening to music, and really hearing it. The same thing is true for movies, there’s a difference between watching something and really seeing it. You watched both of these. \nHave an unpopular opinion upvote friend.",
">\n\nOP sounds like my mom, she always watched movies with deeper messages and never understood them. \"Joker\" was one of those movies.",
">\n\nJust watched it last night. OP should watch joker, he tries really hard but still gets fucked by the system",
">\n\n\nSquid game is the same way. It shows regular people going out of their own way to do bad things intentionally and then trying to blame capitalism for it. The issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nYou're forgetting that the game didn't apparate out of nothing, it was created by obscenely rich sons of bitches who derived entertainment out of misery\n\nIt only backfired because of the harmful shitty things THEY did. Capitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nDo you remember how a massive flood destroyed their home, and they had no choice but to keep working and tolerate their out-of-touch boss who was losing her shit about having the perfect birthday party? Or how the reason there was a crazy guy in the basement was because he and his wife had nowhere to live (I think due to medical bills?) and she needed that job in order to secure his hidey hole?\nPeople in bad situations will make bad choices. Their life depends on it. That's capitalism, baby",
">\n\nThe main character chick that escaped North Korea? \nI’m pretty sure the point was they were in those conditions because they were not born in financially advantageous situations. As many people benefit from capitalism, many don’t. \nHowever to OP’s point squid game more so showed desperation, I didn’t immediately think, capitalism.",
">\n\nOnly a tiny minority benefit",
">\n\nThe West has been doing the best it ever has.",
">\n\nIn what ways?",
">\n\nPretty much every measurement. Human development index, social liberties, GDP etc.",
">\n\nYou mean that at least the US is not going completely backwards? And human liberties? really? Also look at how the countries the US has invaded in the past 5 decades and see how they're doing.",
">\n\nFor me, these shows just emphasize something we can all agree on. Poverty sucks.",
">\n\nIf there’s one thing I’ve learned in life is that being poor fucking sucks.",
">\n\nParasite and Squid Game are so much more than just a critique of capitalism. I have a feeling you know nothing about Korean culture, let alone the themes they tackle. My god, my comment sounds like a r/iamverysmart ... Regardless, your ignorance baffles.\nEdit: and upvote for being unpopular.",
">\n\nFelt the same thing. Both Squid Game and Parasite can only be fully understood when you understand Korean culture and politics. While I don't think that Parasite is Bong's best work, he did an amazing job at displaying what's wrong with modern Korean society",
">\n\nHello zero reading comprehension. \nOr in this case, viewing comprehension",
">\n\nI think both are a critique on Korean society and how it's antiquated ways got co opted by the capitalistic logic of prioritizing profit over other things such as virtues.\nIn Parasites for example they have to cheat their way around the system to have a better living, because things are so socially bad in Korea that they need to live on a basement. \nThe problem is that their cheating goes so far up its own ass it exploded when their cheating collides with the maid's cheating whom are also living like parasites.\nThen the rich guys are also parasites on their own that were lucky of being born with the right contacts but still, parasites that do no good.\nAnd Squid Game showcases the issues with debt in Korean society, difference with the USA is that in the USA you don't pay your debts you go to jail.\nIn Korea, they'll break your legs or sell you away in the worst case scenario and no one will bat an eye.\nSquid game showcases the desperation of those in the lowest levels of Korean society, willing to incurre in a game where they're reduced to nothing with the promise of earning enough money to escape misery because otherwise Korean society wouldn't let them.\nWant a good critique about capitalism? Lord of war, that's an amazing movie.",
">\n\nDebtors prison does not exist in the US. You can never be sent to jail purely on debt alone. You’ll just have your wages garnished or your things repossessed or something to that effect.",
">\n\nWoha that's cool, better than having to or being forced to sell your kidneys",
">\n\nI think far more likely that you just didn’t understand Parasite or Squid Game",
">\n\nIf your takeaway is that poor people did it to themselves you completely missed the point lol capitalism brings out the worst in people because it forces people into desperate situations. That’s the message",
">\n\nHow to misunderstand movies 101. \nTake my upvote.",
">\n\nSeems like subtitles are tough for OP.",
">\n\nDamn, they just flew right over your head.",
">\n\nI think the point is how the overarching system creates a situation where people almost forced to make these sorts of choices. It's like how poverty creates crime and prosperity lowers it. People with more options will seldom pick the illegal or immoral one",
">\n\nI think what you’re not understanding is that both squid game and parasite show how the pursuit of capitalism can warp a person and create more issues. The rich in these films are already bad people and capitalism has already changed them, we just don’t get to see their growth to get to that point compared to our main characters. The rich in squid game are obviously terrible people and the rich family in parasite are fairly stupid and selfish people who think less of everyone around them and they do not have a realistic grasp on the world, especially the father. I’d recommend watching these again to better understand this.",
">\n\nWait... why do the people do bad things in Squid Game? Isn't it because the capitalist system put them in an unrecoverable amount of debt?\nI thought the whole point was that people have medical bills, foreclosures, etc, that drove them to play the Squid Game for the chance to claw themselves out of that insurmountable debt. How is that not a valid critique of the capatilist system?",
">\n\n\"But they could've just worked harder\"😮💨",
">\n\nUh OP working does not equal capitalism",
">\n\nSquid game was never made to critique the rich, its a killing game first and foremost. It is the same as Alice in borderland. The only reason the rich are involved is because there needs to be a plausible reason as to why the killing game is occurring",
">\n\nThis is just not true. It does critique the rich. The whole point of the show is to show how grotesquely inhuman the rich views of the working class are. So much so that they pay millions to see poor people compete against each other to the death only to actually give money to one of the competitors.\nNo media literacy lol",
">\n\nYou are further proven wrong by the game series danganronpa, zero escape and the anime tomodachi game. There are plenty more examples.\nSquid game needed a motive for the characters to keep fighting, other than to keep living. They needed to create interesting character dynamics that hadn’t been done before. The best way to do this was through money. The debt, how it affects family, how people truly think more about others than themselves. \nYou can even watch notes by the creator. He wanted to create a killing game, different from the rest. Childhood challenges were not a plot on their own and he said money opens more doors for story. \nThe creator has never mentioned how he hates the rich, or that he wanted to show how bad the rich are. He wanted to make an in depth story, characters with proper motives and scenarios of which people could relate to.",
">\n\nSorry, why does Danganronpa etc prove the other person wrong? I'm not arguing, I'm just unsure what you mean and am a fan of both Squid Game and dgr :)",
">\n\nI think he means Danganronpa V3 when he is referring danganronpa. I DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKR SPOILERS SO BEWARE HUGE SPOILERS.\nIn V3 it is shown that it is the publics will for the killing game to be organized. It is revealed to be a TV show where people eagerly audition to get in. Life is so peaceful that they need the killing game to add variety into their lives.",
">\n\n“I have poor media comprehension, therefore the media I got presented with is bad.” I mean the shows are overrated to hell due to how much they stand out from your regular western media, but that is just a criticism of western media in the first place.",
">\n\nI am a capitalist but I would suggest you watch a movie called “The Platform”. It is a great Spanish movie dubbed in English on Netflix, and the underlying theme is greed vs forced equality. Essentially fascism vs communism. Great watch.",
">\n\nNo doubts, that film slaps hard",
">\n\nMan you're the kind of person that you must be fun at parties meme is based around.",
">\n\nEveryone here defending squid game but not parasite.",
">\n\nA lot of people here have. Parasite is a great movie that OP clearly didn’t understand. Makes debating his points less fulfilling because he really didn’t make any.",
">\n\nYou completely missed the point of Parasite",
">\n\nSure they’re selfish idiots but maybe that’s because capitalism very effectively produces selfish idiots.",
">\n\nYou realllllly didn't understand Parasite if you think that the poor family is the true \"parasite\" in the movie",
">\n\nOh yeah, the shitty things the Guy did in squid game, like being addicted to gambling and living in a society where his job was taken from him because he wanted better work conditions and a better wage só that his daughter could have a better life, and só that his diabetic old mother could STOP working because She was about to die...\nYeah, that dude deserved It, capitalism didn't force his mother to work a shitty job her entire life, It also didn't kill her because treatment was tio expensive, It also didn't fuck him over because workwers were exploited as much as possible.\nTheres also the guy who worked for someone and the didn't get pais because fuck workwers capitalism allows owners to fuck employes over and steal from them very easily with minimal consequences.\nWow, How bad they were, capitalism really didn't do anything, capitalism good",
">\n\nhonestly on this point your better of defending the protagonist of parasite. At least in parasite the protagonist was smart and hard working. Wanted to make you root for him even though he was straying of path\nFucking the guy from squid games is an absolute deadbeat who doesnt try to get his shit together till PAST the last second. And right when hes about to make it all right, make it all worth it for his daughter. He choses personal revenge over that. Its alright been some time that her daughter lived in america. And again PAST the last second he ruins everything by choosing himself over his daughter. AGAIN",
">\n\nI don't think the messages of these media are anti-capitalist. They seem more anti-rich or anti-decadence which isn't a strictly capitalist issue.",
">\n\nprobably the worst take about Parasite i’ve ever seen, congrats",
">\n\nI didn't view the rich family in \"Parasite\" as bad or evil in any. I just viewed them as oblivious. Maybe that's just me.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism didn’t force them to do this shit, they did it themselves because they were failures.\n\nI think you'll find homelessness and starvation as powerful motivators. The baseline assumption of a capitalistic system is that there will be people who will have nothing and die because of it. The motivating factor to produce value starts with not wanting to be one of those people. Slavery was a perfect solution for capitalism because it designated a permanent underclass that could produce value without retaining value itself.\nCapitalism is the shittiest thing humans have done to themselves.",
">\n\nSlavery has existed since ancient agricultural economies, it was never a product of Capitalism. And for that matter, capitalism helped eliminate slavery by creating innovative technologies that rendered the need for mass amounts of unskilled field labor both redundant and more expensive. John Deere and Cyrus McCormick, as well the other pioneers of mechanical farming, were the ultimate cause for the collapse of plantation economies. In the same vein, it also made food cheaper and more available to the common man. \nThe question therefore does capitalism raise the standards of living for all? And that it has (other than those who had invested heavily in slaves).",
">\n\nSlavery is perfectly capitalistic and it’s existence before capitalism as we know it isn’t a counter argument to that. A slave is a perfect worker in a capitalist society as it is the minimum payment needed to pay a human to work. The only thing better than slavery is automation because it costs even less because you don’t have to feed and house people. Slaves being replaced was a byproduct and not the intended effect. \nThere is a reason why the end of slavery, minimum wage, child labor laws were government interventions. It’s the same reason companies fight to find the closest situation to slavery across the world to reduce costs as much as possible. That is until they can automate the job for a cheaper price.",
">\n\nHonestly, I didn’t get how squid game was against capitalism at all. Normal people in capitalism don’t put themselves in totally fucked situations like that.\nI took it more as a roadmap for poor decisions. Drug addicts, gamblers, drug dealers, bums, gang members, all people who refuse to take part in society or engage in criminal activity get so deep into it that they can’t find a easy way out anymore. Then they see another “easy” solution and find out that is was significantly more dangerous and harder than just participating in the system as designed. All because in their heads they see it is an easy solution. Fast money instead of a life. Play a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been). Literally had a top tier businessman playing the game because he gambled and lost hard. That’s not capitalisms fault, that’s an excessive risk-comfortable gambling addiction, paired with access to significant funds.\nAt any point, any of the people involved could own up to their situation and turn it around. The inner demons of each of them justify the losses and pain as acceptable when it means they could walk away with near unlimited cash at the end. They choose to participate in this instead of a regular life.",
">\n\n\nPlay a few games and be rich, versus working hard and living average (or below average depending on how poor their previous decisions have been).\n\nYeah because people who work harder get more money🙄. I guess little Raj in India supplying your favourite clothing brand with sweet new t-shirts is just not working, like at all, since he barely gets \"paid\".",
">\n\nI think relating everything to sweat shops is kinda silly.\nRaj is probably doing better than his peers in India. The same as hard workers in the USA do better than their peers in the USA. Obviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\nWorking hard has paid off really well for me.",
">\n\n\nObviously brains, degrees and ambition have a major role to play as well.\n\nIronic that Elon musk only checked 1 out of those 3 boxes then. \nAnd hey, if you working harder gives you more money, then thank God that you won't have to skip out on school education just to keep your family from starving, and probably having to see at least one of them die from some illness due to lack of available health care.\nMy point is that you would get a lot more support and financial gain from working hard in a socialist society.",
">\n\nWhy would I get more support in a socialist society? I support my own family just fine, I can’t imagine relying on someone else to provide for them for me. Can you name a single socialist country in the past 1000 years that actually worked? Seems to me true socialism always turns into extreme corruption and poverty for all.\nAs far as Elon goes, a few crazy rich CEOs doesn’t mean the system is a failure. Also, he did push the whole EV thing far into the limelight, where it wasn’t before. That was pretty genius marketing and development. SpaceX isn’t a small accomplishment either. He made good bets and investments with his money and companies.",
">\n\nElon was not a \"one of those CEOs\" lmao, he was the single richest man on earth. And he did it by stealing other actual smart people's ideas and passing them off as his own genius inventions, you know, like a liar. How the hell does that happen in a non capitalistic society? And spaceX was mostly just him wanting more attention.\nThe idea with a socialist society is that everyone works together for everyone's benefit, if you see something inhenrelty wrong with that I don't even know what to say. And for, say, the USSR being \"socialist\". I mean they might've called themselves something, that doesn't mean they were that something. In a \"pure\" socialist society you don't have slave workers.",
">\n\nName one pure successful socialist society.\nCapitalism is everyone working towards everyone’s benefit imo. We each work a job that pays us according to our skills and capabilities. We’re all producing products that each other wants to buy. I mine ore from the ground for your countertops, roadways, toothpaste, paint, etc. you do whatever you do to make things I need. We get paid based on our value and spend it as we want.\nThe only ones getting left behind are the people who won’t work, or who won’t acquire skills worth anything. Mr burger flipper isn’t worth much. Mr chemist is worth quite a bit. the companies that produce products decide what they’re willing to pay for jobs, and we (the labor) get to choose which deal is most compelling for us. If they want the best people, they have to be competitive with their offers. If you’re not getting a good deal, then it is entirely because you’re not the best, and probably not even average in your field.\nI tend to see the strongest advocates for socialism are the weakest among their field. They think everyone is getting screwed because they’re so far behind, when in actuality we all know that you’re just not that useful and holding everyone else back. Nobody wants to have the weakest ride on the coat tails of the strongest.",
">\n\nI feel sorry for OP, hopefully your ignorance is confined to misunderstanding obvious symbolism instead of your entire life.\nStay strong OP, maybe you are just young and developing, otherwise I have bad news.",
">\n\nI doubt your average person wants to abolish capitalism. These movies are more about what's wrong with the current system. Capitalism of today is not the free for all capitalism of yesterday. As our understanding of the world and us progresses, we have to reshape it to benefit everyone.\nFor example, we're starting to appreciate that the 9 to 5, 5 days a week schedule isn't great.",
">\n\nLol",
">\n\nI think you're mistaking capitalism for regular old greed...",
">\n\ncapitalism=money hoarding/wealth disparity\nHoarding money for yourself 👍\nHaving money hoarder from 👎\nGreed > > > money hoarding=👍\nNo greed > > > having money hoarder(/stolen) from=👎 \nThis is why greed plays a big part in capitalism, only most greedy people here will also have their money hoarder from/value exploited. Thing is people who aren't greedy wont hoard money from others and thus will almost always be the ones being exploited.",
">\n\nI'd check your local Community College to see if they have any civics course available. They can help you to better understand capitalism.",
">\n\nCan they help me understand it more than a capitilistic society brain washing it's citizens that capitalism is the best obtainable standard for an economic structure currently?",
">\n\nIt sounds like you are aware of a governmental structure that eliminates economical/social disparities, rewards personal innovations, and provides a safety net of some sort to the vast majority of its population. I would love to hear it!",
">\n\nAh yes, socialism (:",
">\n\nAwww, you're pranking me. You're a funny individual! You should repost this in r/jokes!",
">\n\nİ am not even related to the conversation just wanted to say the way you talk(write) is so annoying that i just had to comment. İ am genuinely impressed by your ability to sound so annoying through writing alone. İf you wrote less annoyingly it would be a lot easier to support your views. Also touch grass please.",
">\n\nSo I went back and re-read all my comments, and other than the very first one, I agree, I was overly pissy and condescending. Not how I like to present myself. No excuses...I'll try to do better. Thanks for the check. As an aside, I would love to touch grass, but it's not going to be available for about 7 or 8 more weeks yet...part of the pissyness.",
">\n\nMight need to stick with easy to understand movies like marvel or something",
">\n\nI would say that both shows are being critical of more than just capitalism. They are pointing out that capitalism derives its power from the greed and shittyness of individual humans. They are inextricably linked. Capitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.",
">\n\n\nCapitalism cannot be inherently evil. It is a morally neutral system for creating economic value.\n\nBut the whole idea of capitalism is wealth disparity and money hoarding, is that not immoral?",
">\n\nPOV; aa really fucking shitty take",
">\n\nwe call infinite growth \"earnings\" what do you expect from a society like that",
">\n\nIf there is now upward limit or downward safety net - yes, the wealth gap keeps growing. We somehow aren't even allowed to think this is wrong. Without redistributing wealth in some way, unchecked Capitalism will eventually create disasters for the poor. It's inevitable. \nSquid game did an awesome job portraying how this happens and so many people still don't see it. Some of the games were \"easy\" but, because people were inevitably wrong figuring out the rules, or unlucky, they were pruned off every round. It wasn't through his own merits the main character \"won\" -- it was at least half luck. If you didn't know the rules or how to win -- you paid with your life.\nPeople CHOSE to be part of Squid Game at some point -- because they'd rather a small chance of \"winning Capitalism\" than living life as a loser. They hated themselves for \"losing\" that much -- and this psychology inundates our society. The ONLY real difference is the odds. We don't see 99% actually dying. But eventually, everyone's luck runs out in the Game. With society, it is okay of 5% fail utterly. We reward the ONE winner of the race with most of the money that it would take for half of our society to live without fear and anxiety -- that's OKAY in our psychology.\nPeople don't see it. They allow for \"socialism\" to bail out the \"important people and businesses\" and think that socialism to provide a safety net because there is no way that people are not going to be at the bottom is somehow \"robbing the rich.\"\nYou don't have a race or a contest where nobody loses -- and eventually, most everyone does if you have enough games.",
">\n\nEventually create disasters? dude, only europe and north america arent complete desasters YET \nas you can see, we have come to the point where everyone is so blinded to the point that they achieve keeping us far enough away from reality - talk to the general public, they are oblivious and dont want to know anyways - just keep working, having their needs and thats it - thats what we are conditioned to already, there are just a few people like us who feel the disconnect \ni am fairly certain that we will reach a point like \"the great ravine\"(scifi book) - scarcicity is going to become so abundant because of climate change and consumption that a great disaster will cause about 3-5 billion people to die and the elites are going to rebuild earth from space \nthere is no hope for us as it is now, maybe in a few centuries",
">\n\n\nthe elites are going to rebuild earth from space\n\nI'm sure that is the fantasy of some. They would love a high perch where they can never worry what they do to others will affect them.\nHowever, they will expect and demand loyalty and gratitude and cannot see they've never given it. Without numbers and the buffer of Earth -- there won't be a way for them to separate themselves from a system that can backfire on them.\nThe people who would allow everyone to die off and rescue themselves are not the people who have the psychology to build a sustainable society. Sure, if the billionaires found GOOD PEOPLE, and then put them in the floating colony -- THEN it could survive. But, they value themselves too highly, mistaking luck and greed for talent.\nHumanity is doomed if the elite keep thinking they aren't in our same boat.",
">\n\nfantasy to some? BRO - who is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos - it is reality already, we are at this point - they are already creating the foundations for space corporacracity right in front of us, big tech is just the first incarnation of the mega corporation \nif we dont change the trajectory we are on we WILL enable them to do it - right now we are mere slaves to them, doing their bidding \nand thats a perspective i had for a long time too - but a very real possibility is that they are going to be able to use tech to their advantage that we simply cant as ground grunts - imagine what they can do with their monopolys on AI,Space,Money,Violence - maybe we cant stop them if we dont do it soon enough - pair all that with a super AI and an army of advanced boston dynamic bots who can ALREADY work at construction sites - we have to rise up now, or it WILL be to late - i cant come to any other conclusion anymore",
">\n\n\nwho is building spacecrafts right now? elon, bezos\n\nA sustainable space colony that doesn't need Earth? That's a pipe dream. Especially if it isn't run by egalitarian people who trust each other and feel a commonality.\nIf they ever try to build an escape society it will fail. Because the intelligent, altruistic people that they've been sponging off of will suddenly see what they did not see before. The people who they paid to be loyal and are rarely competent won't have a real value either.\nYou are down to mercenaries or cults. One needs an economy and an incentive and the other needs an external out group and are not good at accessing systemic problems due to the need to ignore reality to stay in a cult.\nA space-based colony needs the best and brightest and sociopaths need a buffer between them and the competent. The super rich would need 100,000 people to sustain the game they've got going. If it's below 2,000, eventually someone clever will figure out how to remove the explosive collars. And, you can't really outsmart everyone.\nIf they go with an AI controlled automated system -- that's even worse.\nSo, I don't see anything viable to support their pipe dreams. However, I don't rule out they aren't big enough assholes to think it's an option.",
">\n\nThat’s why I don’t like some of these Korean drama. I recall watching Vincenzo and it’s the same shit about people obsessed with money and the people in the show from the Chaebo to the government officials and the prosecutors being corrupt to the core and will do anything evil to achieve their goals It’s not the fault of capitalism. It’s the fault of ugly human greed. But I think it’s part and parcel of Korean culture.",
">\n\nVincenzo you’re right in part was about human greed, but the titular character wasn’t concerned about appearing good or moral in any sense. He inflicting pure revenge by any means necessary and didn’t give a damn. Personally, I respected that fact.",
">\n\nSelfish idiots... kinda the target customer for capitalism.",
">\n\nSo, consumers? Like the general public?",
">\n\nThis applies to people in the US who aren't seriously thinking of alternatives/amendments to the system that exploits the working class. The social contract has warped into a scheme that can best be summed up as class warfare with polarizing socioeconomic outcomes to everyday problems. It goes beyond financial villiany and into the realm of violating the public trust and human rights.",
">\n\nAnd what kind of circumstances drove their stupid and selfish actions? Capitalism.",
">\n\n~~The devil~~ Capitalism made me do it.",
">\n\nYou're regarded",
">\n\nRegarded as what?",
">\n\nHa, take my upvote. \nBut anyway, Didn't... The lead in squid games end up a mess because he was traumatized from the worker's rebellion he was part of? You know, the one that saw his friend murdered?",
">\n\nI didn't watch Squid Game, but I agree with you about Parasite, everything would have been fine if they just did their fucking jobs.",
">\n\nJail capitalism haters",
">\n\nSquid Game introduces the idea of you dying where that’s not the case with Parasite. I do agree with your thoughts somewhat but in SG scenario…people will be selfish, do anything to stay alive.",
">\n\nI never thought both shows are about anti capitalism. I thought these are another two stories made by Korean cinema industry to depict the social / economic contrast, that often shows up and talked in Korean dramas, which tells me, social / economic gap still presents in South Korean society whose economy is mostly developed.",
">\n\nThe one I hate the most is \"the platform\", it makes such a strawman out of capitalism.",
">\n\nTell me you didn't understand a movie without telling me you didn't understand the movie",
">\n\nYOU think that because you think these are critiques of capitalism where in reality they're just about the human condition, desperation, and what people are willing to do when they feel cornered.",
">\n\nI don't even want to argue with you it would too tiring. But i suggest you to watch parasite again",
">\n\nNever heard of parasite. And literally thought squid games was a reality TV game show. Didn't know it had a plot. \nPretty sure they are both targeted at kids and teens. That are too immature to understand anything more dynamic than sponge Bob. So the fact you. A grown adult is trying to break it down and rationalize it. Is kinda sad dude.",
">\n\nI haven’t seen squid game. But parasite? I though the movie was great. \n\n\nBoth families could have lived happily ever after by leeching off the rich guys. Instead, they screw everything but fighting each other. \n\n\nWhile the entire movie happens the rich guys are completely oblivious to everything going on in their own house. \n\n\nThose two points set it apart from your classic “rich people bad” capitalist critique.",
">\n\nthe crator said it was talking about getting a job",
">\n\nThis is an unpopular opinion. Like it",
">\n\nIt was just a piece of bread. . . \nYour critique of Parasite is laughable.\nMaybe Les Miserables is more your forte, but idk you sound like you'd love Inspector Javert.",
">\n\n\nThe issues for both of these isn’t capitalism, it’s because the people in these stories are selfish idiots.\n\nIndividual psychology ain't shit compared to a material analysis",
">\n\nI’ll upvote because this is indeed a terrible and unpopular opinion",
">\n\nI think you are misunderstanding a work of fiction. Art doesn't reflect reality as it is, exactly. It's just a way of exploring themes underlying reality. The reality is capitalism is flawed and has always contained the seed to its demise, just like every other man-made system. Everyone experiences reality differently but absolute reality is indescribable and inconceivable in it's totality by our petty brains. \nSorry to get all philosophical but philosophy is what underpins our conceptions of reality, whether that is in an economical reality or a political ideology. \nAnyway, my point is that art primarily serves to explore certain realities, not to critique them. Just my two cents.",
">\n\nI thought parasite was about a guy with an alien in his body that spoke to him through a mouth in his hand\nWeird, must be misremembering",
">\n\nI think you missed the point here so I will upvote this, but I think I can explain it in a way it would make more sense. The critique here is that a lack of money pins people between doing two shitty things they otherwise wouldn’t do. Saying capitalism didn’t force them to do this is kind of like saying, well cancer didn’t FORCE you to go to the hospital. Yea sure cancer isn’t going to force you to go to the hospital, it won’t literally take control of your body and walk you over there. However the cancer would put you in a position where NOT going to the hospital would have an extremely negative outcome. That’s the critique, not that capitalism FORCES anyone to do shitty things, rather that it puts people in situations where the alternative to doing that shitty thing is often much worse.",
">\n\nAdd The Menu to this list.",
">\n\nI always assume people with opinions like this never watch the movie. Sure you see the movie but you didn’t watch it. That or the messages conflict with your world view so much that it’s dismissed as not doing it well.",
">\n\nYou really just dont understand the movie and show.",
">\n\nThe most scathing critique a movie could show of capitalism is a competent person making immoral decisions for selfish reasons, succeeding at it, and living happily because of it.",
">\n\nOh boy no words OP didn’t understand those movies at all.",
">\n\nI also think “criticizing capitalism” is such a lame explanation anyway and sounds like something a 15 year old whose flipped through a few pages of the Communist Manifesto says.\nSquid Game was fantastic not because it “criticized capitalism” but because it raised the question about the importance of wealth, how far is being selfish acceptable, and asked how far people would go to get rich or to solve their problems. \nThese are linked to capitalism, sure, but they’re also linked to general human themes that are relatable. Just because the story was “some people want money” doesn’t make it “about capitalism.”\nThe part that was widely seen as shit and where SG went off the rails was when they crammed in the rich gambling people at the end. Then it got boring because it tried to make explicit these subtle themes into a “CAPITALISM BAD” message — which generally isn’t very interesting.",
">\n\nSeems you're racist against Koreans and their fantastic entertainment... 🫤",
">\n\nYou’re calling me racist when you just boiled down two projects to the ethnicity of their creators?",
">\n\nPopular opinion: people do a shit job interpreting most themes and messages in movies and tv.",
">\n\ndid ya'll walk away from parasite thinking only the poor families were the parasites?",
">\n\nJFC. Such a shit take",
">\n\nLol, why even watch movies if ou aren't going to pay attention. Is it the pretty colors and shapes?",
">\n\nParasite scarred me. after watching that i was… grateful for more things.",
">\n\nI find it endlessly amusing that the private, for-profit entertainment industry spends a good deal of its time denigrating the private, for-profit system.",
">\n\nThose shows are very korean it it's criticism of modern Korean culture.",
">\n\nFor me, movies are just for rest, fun. \nI've never cared about the message they send . I understand (most of the time) what the film wants to convey to me, but I don't think it will change my opinions much",
">\n\nIt may look like a criticism of capitalism but it’s not, it’s reinforcing the ways they want us to conform to their labour plan. All these movies get sent through the profit machine first to make sure they don’t actually inspire anyone or make a real point against any of these corporations.\nTheir basic message: want rich? get job for 35 years. oh no 🙈 not rich… to late. you die now 🤷♂️ oh well.",
">\n\nYou might possibly have a worse take than op which is crazy.",
">\n\nI have fun 🤷♂️",
">\n\nProb because portraying the actual shit that happens in the name of capitalism would turn people away from capitalism",
">\n\nBut there are documentaries about that all the time. About the food industry preying on our appetites. About pharma companies preying on our addictions. And yet nobody is asking for capitalism to end, just more regulation and justice against these things.",
">\n\nKeyword documentaries...not Oscar winning movies",
">\n\nWhat, Squid game was meant to be a critique of capitalism? I love capitalism and think it's more of a critique of poor people mentality.",
">\n\nYou are the bad guys from Squid Game.",
">\n\nI’ll do you one better: All satire is stupid.",
">\n\nTry platform",
">\n\nTell everyone you’re a trust fund baby without telling everyone you’re a trust fund baby",
">\n\nas a korean who’s proud of both works and enjoyed them wholeheartedly, this post was kinda insulting :(",
">\n\nespecially your critique of parasite. like the characteristics of the poor (ie smell) and how the rich are disgusted yet fetishize it. theres so many levels to the movie and i feel like you only touched on the mere surface. i’d recommend watching it another time and then watch a professional’s commentary on the movie to see everything you could have missed.",
">\n\n\"This quarter, one of our big tentpole releases is Capitalism Is Like The Worst Thing Ever, which thanks to our ad campaign's focus on social media platforms, is seeing heavy engagement on YouTube and Instagram. Subscriptions to our streaming platform are up nearly 19% year over year, for the same quarter.\nEasily the most-discussed character, with over 200% more mentions than the next contender, is Karl Marx, so at the end of this call, we will review three proposed spinoffs featuring Karl in his own series. Marvel's continued success with Guardians of the Galaxy, however, indicates that teaming up the likes of Engels, Hegel, and Trotsky may prove an even bigger draw.\""
] |
This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.
Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"
(For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, please read this page.)
Rule-breaking posts may result in bans. | [] |
> | [
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans."
] |
Hey everyone,
Here’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.
RKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam
How does it sound? | [] |
>
Hey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam? | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?"
] |
>
Thanks dude! Both are EVA foams. | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?"
] |
>
that right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams."
] |
>
Sounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting"
] |
>
Sounds great! It's like magic!
I'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice? | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns"
] |
>
Haven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future. | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?"
] |
>
Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future."
] |
>
Day 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!"
] |
>
Fuck your proper typing form, respectively. | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!",
">\n\nDay 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub"
] |
>
Yikes, did I strike a nerve with my dumb joke? Lmao | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!",
">\n\nDay 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub",
">\n\nFuck your proper typing form, respectively."
] |
>
Respectively, sir. | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!",
">\n\nDay 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub",
">\n\nFuck your proper typing form, respectively.",
">\n\nYikes, did I strike a nerve with my dumb joke? Lmao"
] |
>
I think you mean "respectably". | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!",
">\n\nDay 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub",
">\n\nFuck your proper typing form, respectively.",
">\n\nYikes, did I strike a nerve with my dumb joke? Lmao",
">\n\nRespectively, sir."
] |
>
Massive improvement. What made more of a difference, in your opinion: the case foam or the PE foam? | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!",
">\n\nDay 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub",
">\n\nFuck your proper typing form, respectively.",
">\n\nYikes, did I strike a nerve with my dumb joke? Lmao",
">\n\nRespectively, sir.",
">\n\nI think you mean \"respectably\"."
] |
>
I’d say the case foam made the board sound fuller, and the PE foam made the board deeper and poppy. They both made an equal improvement imho. | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!",
">\n\nDay 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub",
">\n\nFuck your proper typing form, respectively.",
">\n\nYikes, did I strike a nerve with my dumb joke? Lmao",
">\n\nRespectively, sir.",
">\n\nI think you mean \"respectably\".",
">\n\nMassive improvement. What made more of a difference, in your opinion: the case foam or the PE foam?"
] |
>
Quality glow up | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!",
">\n\nDay 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub",
">\n\nFuck your proper typing form, respectively.",
">\n\nYikes, did I strike a nerve with my dumb joke? Lmao",
">\n\nRespectively, sir.",
">\n\nI think you mean \"respectably\".",
">\n\nMassive improvement. What made more of a difference, in your opinion: the case foam or the PE foam?",
">\n\nI’d say the case foam made the board sound fuller, and the PE foam made the board deeper and poppy. They both made an equal improvement imho."
] |
>
Nice job! That ended up sounded great! How does it feel? | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!",
">\n\nDay 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub",
">\n\nFuck your proper typing form, respectively.",
">\n\nYikes, did I strike a nerve with my dumb joke? Lmao",
">\n\nRespectively, sir.",
">\n\nI think you mean \"respectably\".",
">\n\nMassive improvement. What made more of a difference, in your opinion: the case foam or the PE foam?",
">\n\nI’d say the case foam made the board sound fuller, and the PE foam made the board deeper and poppy. They both made an equal improvement imho.",
">\n\nQuality glow up"
] |
>
It feels like typing on a butter haha. Changing to lubed switches made a massive improvement. | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!",
">\n\nDay 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub",
">\n\nFuck your proper typing form, respectively.",
">\n\nYikes, did I strike a nerve with my dumb joke? Lmao",
">\n\nRespectively, sir.",
">\n\nI think you mean \"respectably\".",
">\n\nMassive improvement. What made more of a difference, in your opinion: the case foam or the PE foam?",
">\n\nI’d say the case foam made the board sound fuller, and the PE foam made the board deeper and poppy. They both made an equal improvement imho.",
">\n\nQuality glow up",
">\n\nNice job! That ended up sounded great! How does it feel?"
] |
>
Novel stuff! | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!",
">\n\nDay 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub",
">\n\nFuck your proper typing form, respectively.",
">\n\nYikes, did I strike a nerve with my dumb joke? Lmao",
">\n\nRespectively, sir.",
">\n\nI think you mean \"respectably\".",
">\n\nMassive improvement. What made more of a difference, in your opinion: the case foam or the PE foam?",
">\n\nI’d say the case foam made the board sound fuller, and the PE foam made the board deeper and poppy. They both made an equal improvement imho.",
">\n\nQuality glow up",
">\n\nNice job! That ended up sounded great! How does it feel?",
">\n\nIt feels like typing on a butter haha. Changing to lubed switches made a massive improvement."
] |
>
Damn that after sounds Thoc. 🔥 | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!",
">\n\nDay 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub",
">\n\nFuck your proper typing form, respectively.",
">\n\nYikes, did I strike a nerve with my dumb joke? Lmao",
">\n\nRespectively, sir.",
">\n\nI think you mean \"respectably\".",
">\n\nMassive improvement. What made more of a difference, in your opinion: the case foam or the PE foam?",
">\n\nI’d say the case foam made the board sound fuller, and the PE foam made the board deeper and poppy. They both made an equal improvement imho.",
">\n\nQuality glow up",
">\n\nNice job! That ended up sounded great! How does it feel?",
">\n\nIt feels like typing on a butter haha. Changing to lubed switches made a massive improvement.",
">\n\nNovel stuff!"
] |
>
Love the sound | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!",
">\n\nDay 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub",
">\n\nFuck your proper typing form, respectively.",
">\n\nYikes, did I strike a nerve with my dumb joke? Lmao",
">\n\nRespectively, sir.",
">\n\nI think you mean \"respectably\".",
">\n\nMassive improvement. What made more of a difference, in your opinion: the case foam or the PE foam?",
">\n\nI’d say the case foam made the board sound fuller, and the PE foam made the board deeper and poppy. They both made an equal improvement imho.",
">\n\nQuality glow up",
">\n\nNice job! That ended up sounded great! How does it feel?",
">\n\nIt feels like typing on a butter haha. Changing to lubed switches made a massive improvement.",
">\n\nNovel stuff!",
">\n\nDamn that after sounds Thoc. 🔥"
] |
>
Sounds awesome! you've got beautiful hands too | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!",
">\n\nDay 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub",
">\n\nFuck your proper typing form, respectively.",
">\n\nYikes, did I strike a nerve with my dumb joke? Lmao",
">\n\nRespectively, sir.",
">\n\nI think you mean \"respectably\".",
">\n\nMassive improvement. What made more of a difference, in your opinion: the case foam or the PE foam?",
">\n\nI’d say the case foam made the board sound fuller, and the PE foam made the board deeper and poppy. They both made an equal improvement imho.",
">\n\nQuality glow up",
">\n\nNice job! That ended up sounded great! How does it feel?",
">\n\nIt feels like typing on a butter haha. Changing to lubed switches made a massive improvement.",
">\n\nNovel stuff!",
">\n\nDamn that after sounds Thoc. 🔥",
">\n\nLove the sound"
] |
> | [
"Hey everyone,\nHere’s a before and after of my newly finished budget build.\nRKG68 - Revelation XDA Keycaps - Gateron Milky Yellow Pro - Durock Piano Platemount Stabilizers - PCB Foam - PE Foam - Tempest Tape Mod - Case Foam\nHow does it sound?",
">\n\nHey man, it sounded fantastic thats exactly how I want my RK84 to sound like, but I havent gotten there. Can I know exactly what material was the pcb foam and case foam?",
">\n\nThanks dude! Both are EVA foams.",
">\n\nthat right index finger is doing some serious heavy lifting",
">\n\nSounds awesome welcome to the Hobby the Journey Beginns",
">\n\nSounds great! It's like magic! \nI'm currently torn between the Milky Yellow Pros and the Silver Pros - any advice?",
">\n\nHaven’t tried the silvers. But I think if you’re a light typer, it would suit you? I find the yellows a bit heavy already. I would definitely want to try silver switches in the future.",
">\n\nExactly what I was looking for. Thanks!",
">\n\nDay 1507 and still no signs of proper typing form anywhere on this sub",
">\n\nFuck your proper typing form, respectively.",
">\n\nYikes, did I strike a nerve with my dumb joke? Lmao",
">\n\nRespectively, sir.",
">\n\nI think you mean \"respectably\".",
">\n\nMassive improvement. What made more of a difference, in your opinion: the case foam or the PE foam?",
">\n\nI’d say the case foam made the board sound fuller, and the PE foam made the board deeper and poppy. They both made an equal improvement imho.",
">\n\nQuality glow up",
">\n\nNice job! That ended up sounded great! How does it feel?",
">\n\nIt feels like typing on a butter haha. Changing to lubed switches made a massive improvement.",
">\n\nNovel stuff!",
">\n\nDamn that after sounds Thoc. 🔥",
">\n\nLove the sound",
">\n\nSounds awesome! you've got beautiful hands too"
] |
People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives | [] |
>
if you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives"
] |
>
Some people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score. | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though"
] |
>
There's a difference between platonic love, romantic love, and sexual attraction.
A person is complicated and people are exponentially more complicated than a person.
Different types of relationships (whether that's being a friend, being romantically involved, being sexually involved, and any combination of all or none of those or any other number of other factors) fit different groups of people. | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though",
">\n\nSome people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score."
] |
>
I don't date because I'm mature enough to realize I'm not ready for a relationship; don't have the living situation I want, don't have the money I want, don't have the free time and attention I'd want to be willing to give to my partner, etc. I still want sex though, so that's why building trusting relationships with friends I can have sex with is the goal for me right now.
Being interested in a monogamous, dedicated relationship with someone and being interested in sex are two wildly, completely different things. | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though",
">\n\nSome people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score.",
">\n\nThere's a difference between platonic love, romantic love, and sexual attraction.\nA person is complicated and people are exponentially more complicated than a person.\nDifferent types of relationships (whether that's being a friend, being romantically involved, being sexually involved, and any combination of all or none of those or any other number of other factors) fit different groups of people."
] |
>
i like how you understand your situation anf want best for any future partner. im not the most sexual person so ive never felt the need to try and make a sexual relationship so i just didn’t understand | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though",
">\n\nSome people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score.",
">\n\nThere's a difference between platonic love, romantic love, and sexual attraction.\nA person is complicated and people are exponentially more complicated than a person.\nDifferent types of relationships (whether that's being a friend, being romantically involved, being sexually involved, and any combination of all or none of those or any other number of other factors) fit different groups of people.",
">\n\nI don't date because I'm mature enough to realize I'm not ready for a relationship; don't have the living situation I want, don't have the money I want, don't have the free time and attention I'd want to be willing to give to my partner, etc. I still want sex though, so that's why building trusting relationships with friends I can have sex with is the goal for me right now. \nBeing interested in a monogamous, dedicated relationship with someone and being interested in sex are two wildly, completely different things."
] |
>
Please... I must... refrain... from.. >!haha virgin!<.. fuck.
Yeah sex is fun, and it doesn't need to have the strings of relationship and commitment attached. People cheat in part to explore a part of themselves they never were able to. I'm getting that exploration out of my system too, so I'll know who I'm compatible with when I meet them. | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though",
">\n\nSome people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score.",
">\n\nThere's a difference between platonic love, romantic love, and sexual attraction.\nA person is complicated and people are exponentially more complicated than a person.\nDifferent types of relationships (whether that's being a friend, being romantically involved, being sexually involved, and any combination of all or none of those or any other number of other factors) fit different groups of people.",
">\n\nI don't date because I'm mature enough to realize I'm not ready for a relationship; don't have the living situation I want, don't have the money I want, don't have the free time and attention I'd want to be willing to give to my partner, etc. I still want sex though, so that's why building trusting relationships with friends I can have sex with is the goal for me right now. \nBeing interested in a monogamous, dedicated relationship with someone and being interested in sex are two wildly, completely different things.",
">\n\ni like how you understand your situation anf want best for any future partner. im not the most sexual person so ive never felt the need to try and make a sexual relationship so i just didn’t understand"
] |
>
Did you just openly admit to cheating? | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though",
">\n\nSome people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score.",
">\n\nThere's a difference between platonic love, romantic love, and sexual attraction.\nA person is complicated and people are exponentially more complicated than a person.\nDifferent types of relationships (whether that's being a friend, being romantically involved, being sexually involved, and any combination of all or none of those or any other number of other factors) fit different groups of people.",
">\n\nI don't date because I'm mature enough to realize I'm not ready for a relationship; don't have the living situation I want, don't have the money I want, don't have the free time and attention I'd want to be willing to give to my partner, etc. I still want sex though, so that's why building trusting relationships with friends I can have sex with is the goal for me right now. \nBeing interested in a monogamous, dedicated relationship with someone and being interested in sex are two wildly, completely different things.",
">\n\ni like how you understand your situation anf want best for any future partner. im not the most sexual person so ive never felt the need to try and make a sexual relationship so i just didn’t understand",
">\n\nPlease... I must... refrain... from.. >!haha virgin!<.. fuck. \nYeah sex is fun, and it doesn't need to have the strings of relationship and commitment attached. People cheat in part to explore a part of themselves they never were able to. I'm getting that exploration out of my system too, so I'll know who I'm compatible with when I meet them."
] |
>
You can't cheat if you're not in a relationship so idk how you got that. To clarify, no I'm not a cheater. | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though",
">\n\nSome people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score.",
">\n\nThere's a difference between platonic love, romantic love, and sexual attraction.\nA person is complicated and people are exponentially more complicated than a person.\nDifferent types of relationships (whether that's being a friend, being romantically involved, being sexually involved, and any combination of all or none of those or any other number of other factors) fit different groups of people.",
">\n\nI don't date because I'm mature enough to realize I'm not ready for a relationship; don't have the living situation I want, don't have the money I want, don't have the free time and attention I'd want to be willing to give to my partner, etc. I still want sex though, so that's why building trusting relationships with friends I can have sex with is the goal for me right now. \nBeing interested in a monogamous, dedicated relationship with someone and being interested in sex are two wildly, completely different things.",
">\n\ni like how you understand your situation anf want best for any future partner. im not the most sexual person so ive never felt the need to try and make a sexual relationship so i just didn’t understand",
">\n\nPlease... I must... refrain... from.. >!haha virgin!<.. fuck. \nYeah sex is fun, and it doesn't need to have the strings of relationship and commitment attached. People cheat in part to explore a part of themselves they never were able to. I'm getting that exploration out of my system too, so I'll know who I'm compatible with when I meet them.",
">\n\nDid you just openly admit to cheating?"
] |
>
sexual attraction ≠ romantic attraction
Just because someone wants to sleep with somebody else, doesn't necessarily mean they want to date them. | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though",
">\n\nSome people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score.",
">\n\nThere's a difference between platonic love, romantic love, and sexual attraction.\nA person is complicated and people are exponentially more complicated than a person.\nDifferent types of relationships (whether that's being a friend, being romantically involved, being sexually involved, and any combination of all or none of those or any other number of other factors) fit different groups of people.",
">\n\nI don't date because I'm mature enough to realize I'm not ready for a relationship; don't have the living situation I want, don't have the money I want, don't have the free time and attention I'd want to be willing to give to my partner, etc. I still want sex though, so that's why building trusting relationships with friends I can have sex with is the goal for me right now. \nBeing interested in a monogamous, dedicated relationship with someone and being interested in sex are two wildly, completely different things.",
">\n\ni like how you understand your situation anf want best for any future partner. im not the most sexual person so ive never felt the need to try and make a sexual relationship so i just didn’t understand",
">\n\nPlease... I must... refrain... from.. >!haha virgin!<.. fuck. \nYeah sex is fun, and it doesn't need to have the strings of relationship and commitment attached. People cheat in part to explore a part of themselves they never were able to. I'm getting that exploration out of my system too, so I'll know who I'm compatible with when I meet them.",
">\n\nDid you just openly admit to cheating?",
">\n\nYou can't cheat if you're not in a relationship so idk how you got that. To clarify, no I'm not a cheater."
] |
>
I don't have enough time for that many girlfriends, plus if I date them all they will all want to move in and I will be in a weird harem situation, I think friends with benefits is the best way to go. | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though",
">\n\nSome people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score.",
">\n\nThere's a difference between platonic love, romantic love, and sexual attraction.\nA person is complicated and people are exponentially more complicated than a person.\nDifferent types of relationships (whether that's being a friend, being romantically involved, being sexually involved, and any combination of all or none of those or any other number of other factors) fit different groups of people.",
">\n\nI don't date because I'm mature enough to realize I'm not ready for a relationship; don't have the living situation I want, don't have the money I want, don't have the free time and attention I'd want to be willing to give to my partner, etc. I still want sex though, so that's why building trusting relationships with friends I can have sex with is the goal for me right now. \nBeing interested in a monogamous, dedicated relationship with someone and being interested in sex are two wildly, completely different things.",
">\n\ni like how you understand your situation anf want best for any future partner. im not the most sexual person so ive never felt the need to try and make a sexual relationship so i just didn’t understand",
">\n\nPlease... I must... refrain... from.. >!haha virgin!<.. fuck. \nYeah sex is fun, and it doesn't need to have the strings of relationship and commitment attached. People cheat in part to explore a part of themselves they never were able to. I'm getting that exploration out of my system too, so I'll know who I'm compatible with when I meet them.",
">\n\nDid you just openly admit to cheating?",
">\n\nYou can't cheat if you're not in a relationship so idk how you got that. To clarify, no I'm not a cheater.",
">\n\nsexual attraction ≠ romantic attraction\nJust because someone wants to sleep with somebody else, doesn't necessarily mean they want to date them."
] |
>
It’s not always that simple | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though",
">\n\nSome people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score.",
">\n\nThere's a difference between platonic love, romantic love, and sexual attraction.\nA person is complicated and people are exponentially more complicated than a person.\nDifferent types of relationships (whether that's being a friend, being romantically involved, being sexually involved, and any combination of all or none of those or any other number of other factors) fit different groups of people.",
">\n\nI don't date because I'm mature enough to realize I'm not ready for a relationship; don't have the living situation I want, don't have the money I want, don't have the free time and attention I'd want to be willing to give to my partner, etc. I still want sex though, so that's why building trusting relationships with friends I can have sex with is the goal for me right now. \nBeing interested in a monogamous, dedicated relationship with someone and being interested in sex are two wildly, completely different things.",
">\n\ni like how you understand your situation anf want best for any future partner. im not the most sexual person so ive never felt the need to try and make a sexual relationship so i just didn’t understand",
">\n\nPlease... I must... refrain... from.. >!haha virgin!<.. fuck. \nYeah sex is fun, and it doesn't need to have the strings of relationship and commitment attached. People cheat in part to explore a part of themselves they never were able to. I'm getting that exploration out of my system too, so I'll know who I'm compatible with when I meet them.",
">\n\nDid you just openly admit to cheating?",
">\n\nYou can't cheat if you're not in a relationship so idk how you got that. To clarify, no I'm not a cheater.",
">\n\nsexual attraction ≠ romantic attraction\nJust because someone wants to sleep with somebody else, doesn't necessarily mean they want to date them.",
">\n\nI don't have enough time for that many girlfriends, plus if I date them all they will all want to move in and I will be in a weird harem situation, I think friends with benefits is the best way to go."
] |
>
expand on that though, i honestly dont see why people do it | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though",
">\n\nSome people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score.",
">\n\nThere's a difference between platonic love, romantic love, and sexual attraction.\nA person is complicated and people are exponentially more complicated than a person.\nDifferent types of relationships (whether that's being a friend, being romantically involved, being sexually involved, and any combination of all or none of those or any other number of other factors) fit different groups of people.",
">\n\nI don't date because I'm mature enough to realize I'm not ready for a relationship; don't have the living situation I want, don't have the money I want, don't have the free time and attention I'd want to be willing to give to my partner, etc. I still want sex though, so that's why building trusting relationships with friends I can have sex with is the goal for me right now. \nBeing interested in a monogamous, dedicated relationship with someone and being interested in sex are two wildly, completely different things.",
">\n\ni like how you understand your situation anf want best for any future partner. im not the most sexual person so ive never felt the need to try and make a sexual relationship so i just didn’t understand",
">\n\nPlease... I must... refrain... from.. >!haha virgin!<.. fuck. \nYeah sex is fun, and it doesn't need to have the strings of relationship and commitment attached. People cheat in part to explore a part of themselves they never were able to. I'm getting that exploration out of my system too, so I'll know who I'm compatible with when I meet them.",
">\n\nDid you just openly admit to cheating?",
">\n\nYou can't cheat if you're not in a relationship so idk how you got that. To clarify, no I'm not a cheater.",
">\n\nsexual attraction ≠ romantic attraction\nJust because someone wants to sleep with somebody else, doesn't necessarily mean they want to date them.",
">\n\nI don't have enough time for that many girlfriends, plus if I date them all they will all want to move in and I will be in a weird harem situation, I think friends with benefits is the best way to go.",
">\n\nIt’s not always that simple"
] |
>
Maybe you don’t want to lose a friendship, or it’s truly just sex and nothing else. Sexual feelings don’t equal romantic feelings. | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though",
">\n\nSome people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score.",
">\n\nThere's a difference between platonic love, romantic love, and sexual attraction.\nA person is complicated and people are exponentially more complicated than a person.\nDifferent types of relationships (whether that's being a friend, being romantically involved, being sexually involved, and any combination of all or none of those or any other number of other factors) fit different groups of people.",
">\n\nI don't date because I'm mature enough to realize I'm not ready for a relationship; don't have the living situation I want, don't have the money I want, don't have the free time and attention I'd want to be willing to give to my partner, etc. I still want sex though, so that's why building trusting relationships with friends I can have sex with is the goal for me right now. \nBeing interested in a monogamous, dedicated relationship with someone and being interested in sex are two wildly, completely different things.",
">\n\ni like how you understand your situation anf want best for any future partner. im not the most sexual person so ive never felt the need to try and make a sexual relationship so i just didn’t understand",
">\n\nPlease... I must... refrain... from.. >!haha virgin!<.. fuck. \nYeah sex is fun, and it doesn't need to have the strings of relationship and commitment attached. People cheat in part to explore a part of themselves they never were able to. I'm getting that exploration out of my system too, so I'll know who I'm compatible with when I meet them.",
">\n\nDid you just openly admit to cheating?",
">\n\nYou can't cheat if you're not in a relationship so idk how you got that. To clarify, no I'm not a cheater.",
">\n\nsexual attraction ≠ romantic attraction\nJust because someone wants to sleep with somebody else, doesn't necessarily mean they want to date them.",
">\n\nI don't have enough time for that many girlfriends, plus if I date them all they will all want to move in and I will be in a weird harem situation, I think friends with benefits is the best way to go.",
">\n\nIt’s not always that simple",
">\n\nexpand on that though, i honestly dont see why people do it"
] |
>
thats true. ive never felt that before ig it just dont make sense to me | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though",
">\n\nSome people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score.",
">\n\nThere's a difference between platonic love, romantic love, and sexual attraction.\nA person is complicated and people are exponentially more complicated than a person.\nDifferent types of relationships (whether that's being a friend, being romantically involved, being sexually involved, and any combination of all or none of those or any other number of other factors) fit different groups of people.",
">\n\nI don't date because I'm mature enough to realize I'm not ready for a relationship; don't have the living situation I want, don't have the money I want, don't have the free time and attention I'd want to be willing to give to my partner, etc. I still want sex though, so that's why building trusting relationships with friends I can have sex with is the goal for me right now. \nBeing interested in a monogamous, dedicated relationship with someone and being interested in sex are two wildly, completely different things.",
">\n\ni like how you understand your situation anf want best for any future partner. im not the most sexual person so ive never felt the need to try and make a sexual relationship so i just didn’t understand",
">\n\nPlease... I must... refrain... from.. >!haha virgin!<.. fuck. \nYeah sex is fun, and it doesn't need to have the strings of relationship and commitment attached. People cheat in part to explore a part of themselves they never were able to. I'm getting that exploration out of my system too, so I'll know who I'm compatible with when I meet them.",
">\n\nDid you just openly admit to cheating?",
">\n\nYou can't cheat if you're not in a relationship so idk how you got that. To clarify, no I'm not a cheater.",
">\n\nsexual attraction ≠ romantic attraction\nJust because someone wants to sleep with somebody else, doesn't necessarily mean they want to date them.",
">\n\nI don't have enough time for that many girlfriends, plus if I date them all they will all want to move in and I will be in a weird harem situation, I think friends with benefits is the best way to go.",
">\n\nIt’s not always that simple",
">\n\nexpand on that though, i honestly dont see why people do it",
">\n\nMaybe you don’t want to lose a friendship, or it’s truly just sex and nothing else. Sexual feelings don’t equal romantic feelings."
] |
>
If you find someone attractive, why not like… date them?
Because the fact that someone is physically attractive and I want to have sex with them, doesn't mean that I want to be with them? It's a really hard concept to understand, I know... | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though",
">\n\nSome people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score.",
">\n\nThere's a difference between platonic love, romantic love, and sexual attraction.\nA person is complicated and people are exponentially more complicated than a person.\nDifferent types of relationships (whether that's being a friend, being romantically involved, being sexually involved, and any combination of all or none of those or any other number of other factors) fit different groups of people.",
">\n\nI don't date because I'm mature enough to realize I'm not ready for a relationship; don't have the living situation I want, don't have the money I want, don't have the free time and attention I'd want to be willing to give to my partner, etc. I still want sex though, so that's why building trusting relationships with friends I can have sex with is the goal for me right now. \nBeing interested in a monogamous, dedicated relationship with someone and being interested in sex are two wildly, completely different things.",
">\n\ni like how you understand your situation anf want best for any future partner. im not the most sexual person so ive never felt the need to try and make a sexual relationship so i just didn’t understand",
">\n\nPlease... I must... refrain... from.. >!haha virgin!<.. fuck. \nYeah sex is fun, and it doesn't need to have the strings of relationship and commitment attached. People cheat in part to explore a part of themselves they never were able to. I'm getting that exploration out of my system too, so I'll know who I'm compatible with when I meet them.",
">\n\nDid you just openly admit to cheating?",
">\n\nYou can't cheat if you're not in a relationship so idk how you got that. To clarify, no I'm not a cheater.",
">\n\nsexual attraction ≠ romantic attraction\nJust because someone wants to sleep with somebody else, doesn't necessarily mean they want to date them.",
">\n\nI don't have enough time for that many girlfriends, plus if I date them all they will all want to move in and I will be in a weird harem situation, I think friends with benefits is the best way to go.",
">\n\nIt’s not always that simple",
">\n\nexpand on that though, i honestly dont see why people do it",
">\n\nMaybe you don’t want to lose a friendship, or it’s truly just sex and nothing else. Sexual feelings don’t equal romantic feelings.",
">\n\nthats true. ive never felt that before ig it just dont make sense to me"
] |
>
ik that’s sarcasm but it genuinely doesnt make sense to me 😭 | [
"People can like other people without wanting them to be a major part of their lives",
">\n\nif you like them then why wouldnt you want to try to be with them though",
">\n\nSome people just want to have sex and not deal with the commitment. If you want commitment get that out of who your taking to before sex, and if they don’t give just move on because chances are the only reason they’re even talking to you is to score.",
">\n\nThere's a difference between platonic love, romantic love, and sexual attraction.\nA person is complicated and people are exponentially more complicated than a person.\nDifferent types of relationships (whether that's being a friend, being romantically involved, being sexually involved, and any combination of all or none of those or any other number of other factors) fit different groups of people.",
">\n\nI don't date because I'm mature enough to realize I'm not ready for a relationship; don't have the living situation I want, don't have the money I want, don't have the free time and attention I'd want to be willing to give to my partner, etc. I still want sex though, so that's why building trusting relationships with friends I can have sex with is the goal for me right now. \nBeing interested in a monogamous, dedicated relationship with someone and being interested in sex are two wildly, completely different things.",
">\n\ni like how you understand your situation anf want best for any future partner. im not the most sexual person so ive never felt the need to try and make a sexual relationship so i just didn’t understand",
">\n\nPlease... I must... refrain... from.. >!haha virgin!<.. fuck. \nYeah sex is fun, and it doesn't need to have the strings of relationship and commitment attached. People cheat in part to explore a part of themselves they never were able to. I'm getting that exploration out of my system too, so I'll know who I'm compatible with when I meet them.",
">\n\nDid you just openly admit to cheating?",
">\n\nYou can't cheat if you're not in a relationship so idk how you got that. To clarify, no I'm not a cheater.",
">\n\nsexual attraction ≠ romantic attraction\nJust because someone wants to sleep with somebody else, doesn't necessarily mean they want to date them.",
">\n\nI don't have enough time for that many girlfriends, plus if I date them all they will all want to move in and I will be in a weird harem situation, I think friends with benefits is the best way to go.",
">\n\nIt’s not always that simple",
">\n\nexpand on that though, i honestly dont see why people do it",
">\n\nMaybe you don’t want to lose a friendship, or it’s truly just sex and nothing else. Sexual feelings don’t equal romantic feelings.",
">\n\nthats true. ive never felt that before ig it just dont make sense to me",
">\n\n\nIf you find someone attractive, why not like… date them?\n\nBecause the fact that someone is physically attractive and I want to have sex with them, doesn't mean that I want to be with them? It's a really hard concept to understand, I know..."
] |
Subsets and Splits
No community queries yet
The top public SQL queries from the community will appear here once available.